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# Session Start: Sat Sep 15 00:00:01 2012
# Session Ident: #whatwg
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# [00:27] <jonathanj> hello, with html5lib.parse(some_xhtml, treebuilder='lxml') i get attributes like this: xmlU0003Alang
# [00:29] <zewt> a fun mistake is hitting inspect element on the spec in chrome
# [00:30] <jonathanj> i would have expected html5lib to be able to parse xhtml, or is this an lxml issue?
# [00:30] <Hixie> jonathanj: html5lib is for parsing html, not xml :-)
# [00:32] <cabanier> hixie: not sure if you saw my earlier message but I noticed that not all images from the Canvas2D spec are checked in with SVN.
# [00:32] <Hixie> cabanier: yeah i fixed it
# [00:32] <cabanier> hixie: great!
# [00:32] <Hixie> (i always forget to do "svn add")
# [00:33] <cabanier> :-)
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# [01:05] <jonathanj> Hixie: thanks, that's actually good advice
# [01:06] <jonathanj> even if i didn't think that 30 minutes ago
# [01:07] <Hixie> heh
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# [09:28] <annevk> GPHemsley: for https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=791428 you prolly want to find someone to cc that has experience with that code
# [09:28] <annevk> GPHemsley: standards people are not going to be of much help I think ;)
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# [09:45] <annevk> hmm, IPv6 parsing in JavaScript is kinda annoying with the 53bit int limit
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# [10:37] <MikeSmith> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-coremob/2012Sep/0021.html
# [10:37] <MikeSmith> from Tobie Langel
# [10:37] <MikeSmith> "What's slowing down Mobile Facebook"
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# [11:04] <smaug____> ugh
# [11:04] <smaug____> creating nodes in workers and moving them to main thread
# [11:04] <smaug____> the API would become horrible
# [11:05] <smaug____> what if you add event listener to the node in worker
# [11:05] <smaug____> and transfer the node to mainthread
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# [11:17] <annevk> what's the context for DOM in workers?
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# [17:43] <jgraham> annevk: The facebook mail
# [17:44] <jgraham> They seem to want to do infinite scrolling by preconstructing document fragments in a worker and then cloning them across to the main thread for rendering
# [17:44] <jgraham> It is not obvious to me that this would be faster
# [17:45] <jgraham> But presumably the response to smaug's concern is that such fragments would be dead until inserted into the main document
# [17:45] <jgraham> So scripts would not run, event listeners would not fire, etc.
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# [18:16] <zewt> seems like an order of magnitude of complexity that should require an order of magnitude benefit
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# [19:17] <annevk> jgraham: oh, I searched that email for node and that yielded nothing
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# [19:35] <jwalden> dear lazywhatwg, does anyone know offhand what the document.all property looks like in Opera? a plain old object, an object that pretends to be falsy, an object that compares == to undefined/null (but not ===), something else?
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# [19:41] <annevk> falsy iirc
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# [19:58] <jwalden> interestingly, in Opera it seems document.all === undefined
# [19:58] <jwalden> even thought it's an object
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# [19:58] <jwalden> jsc at least has == undefined but !== undefined
# [20:01] <jgraham> jwalden: Gecko also has === undefined, no?
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# [20:02] <jwalden> jgraham: Gecko is very funky in how it does things right now
# [20:02] <jwalden> jgraham: if you can manage to get the document.all value as an object, it will not be === undefined
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# [20:03] <jwalden> roughly speaking there is a heuristic that looks at bytecode patterns and decides whether the pattern represents an attempt to "detect" whether a property exists
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# [20:04] <jwalden> well, the heuristic applies to all property accesses, including ones not directly implemented in script, but it's roughly informed by whatever the current script evaluation context is
# [20:05] <jwalden> I'm hoping to remove it in favor of the undefined-looking mechanism right now, on the basis of it being so much less invasive and impossible to implement around
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# [20:05] <jwalden> arguments for compatibility probably help with that to some extent
# [20:06] <jwalden> rather, arguments that doing so increases compatibility help
# [20:07] <Hixie> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#dom-document-all
# [20:07] <jgraham> Yes, I imagine that argument would go "ain't no way we will ever get interoperability around crazy bytecode hacks"
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# [20:09] <jwalden> that's how the argument *has* gone in the past :-)
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# [20:10] * jwalden doesn't really think undefined-looking objects are right, but he's pretty sure they're at least less wrong
# [20:10] <Hixie> what the spec says (cited above) is, iirc, the closest i could get to defining what browsers did without going off into the weeds of defining things like bytecode hacks
# [20:12] <jwalden> in any case, it appears that engines (excepting Gecko) don't try to make "all" in document lie
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# [20:13] <Hixie> that's consistent with the spec, woot
# [20:14] <jwalden> yep
# [20:16] <jwalden> a little unfortunate maybe, but extending the property-access ECMAScript interface is just about the scariest possible thing a JS engine can do, in terms of making it easier to write bugs, harder to write correct code, harder to implement a spec-compliant engine, etc.
# [20:17] * jwalden isn't convinced anyone (including anyone working on SpiderMonkey) is smart enough to do it correctly
# [20:17] <jwalden> well,
# [20:17] <jwalden> "correctly" in the sense of not breaking incidental stuff along the way
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# [20:23] <jwalden> I think Gecko still makes document.all only appear in quirks mode, tho
# [20:23] <jwalden> which does help satisfy the "all" in document test
# [20:24] <jwalden> (that is, making it false to dissuade IE-detectors to some extent)
# [20:34] <Hixie> annevk: if a sandboxed iframe has allow-popups and creates a sandboxed popup, should that popup be able to open fullscreen?
# [20:35] <Hixie> annevk: or do i need to have a sandbox flag that stops that except if the attribute allowfullscreen is set?
# [20:35] <Hixie> (this would be the first time the sandboxed flags get affected by things not in the sandbox attribute)
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# [23:51] <annevk> Hixie: I guess it would need allowfullscreen
# [23:51] <annevk> Hixie: roc might have a more informed opinion
# [23:51] <Hixie> "it"?
# [23:51] <annevk> Hixie: the allow-popups popup
# [23:51] <Hixie> how can a popup have allowfullscreen?
# [23:52] <annevk> the same way it can be sandboxed
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# [23:53] <Hixie> by adding a sandbox="" attribute on the iframe or in CSP?
# [23:53] <annevk> I was thinking <iframe>
# [23:53] <Hixie> ah ok
# [23:54] <Hixie> so what i wrote in the bug, basically
# [23:54] <Hixie> propagate a sandbox flag
# [23:54] <Hixie> ok
# [23:54] <annevk> uhuh
# Session Close: Sun Sep 16 00:00:00 2012
The end :)