/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-10-01 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Oct 01 00:00:01 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <annevk> but I guess they don't follow that pattern
  4. # [00:00] <zewt> talking about the core opengl specs; webgl is more sane here
  5. # [00:01] <zewt> (webgl doesn't include "gl", but they're also not part of the symbols--opengl actually calls glBegin "begin")
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  44. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  48. # [04:45] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ & http://logbot.glob.com.au/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
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  141. # [10:09] <hsivonen> hmm. the “multiple of two” thing is informative in the HD canvas spec text
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  143. # [10:10] <hsivonen> has anyone successfully deployed canvas backing stores with multiples of CSS px other than 1 or 2?
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  150. # [10:14] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: HD canvas spec text?
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  164. # [10:42] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-canvas-element.html#resolution
  165. # [10:43] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: thanks
  166. # [10:43] * MikeSmith reads
  167. # [10:43] <MikeSmith> man when did this happen
  168. # [10:43] <MikeSmith> I been out of it for quite a while I gues
  169. # [10:43] * hsivonen wonders if Hixie mean “power of” rather than “multiple of”
  170. # [10:44] <hsivonen> I’ve lost track of what is happening, too.
  171. # [10:44] <hsivonen> s/mean/meant/
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  174. # [10:47] <hsivonen> Interesting http://browser.yandex.com/
  175. # [10:48] <annevk> hsivonen: sounds like a bug indeed
  176. # [10:48] <annevk> hsivonen: iPhone has 4:1
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  178. # [10:50] <hsivonen> annevk: huh? is iPhone’s devicePixelRatio gone up to 4, too?
  179. # [10:50] <hsivonen> *has
  180. # [10:50] <annevk> hsivonen: dunno about that, but each CSS pixel is four device pixels
  181. # [10:51] <hsivonen> you mean like 2 by 2 device pixels?
  182. # [10:51] <annevk> well yeah
  183. # [10:51] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: about Yandex browser, https://twitter.com/chaals/status/252679467862986752
  184. # [10:51] <MikeSmith> "Take a webkit base, add some Opera source, spice it up with Yandex taste, and serve on a cloud :)"
  185. # [10:52] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: how much of a joke does the :) part signify?
  186. # [10:52] <MikeSmith> not sure
  187. # [10:53] <hsivonen> Adding some Opera source to a WebKit base seems *very* surprising
  188. # [10:53] <MikeSmith> but doesn't the word "cloud" now always imply a joke?
  189. # [10:53] <doublec> I winder if he meant "sauce"
  190. # [10:53] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: not if it’s an Opera Mini competitor
  191. # [10:53] <MikeSmith> doublec: chaals is from Australia, so not a native English speaker...
  192. # [10:55] <annevk> from a press release I read they're using Opera Turbo; so maybe they licensed that somehow?
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  203. # [11:07] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: have you have time for what should be a quick validator patch review?
  204. # [11:07] <MikeSmith> for NPE that was reported today
  205. # [11:07] <MikeSmith> from input@pattern datatype code
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  207. # [11:11] <MikeSmith> ohI just now notice the fingerprint icon that Hixie added to some notes in the spec
  208. # [11:12] <MikeSmith> anybody know which browser engines currently implemented the Media Fragments URI stuff for temporal fragments?
  209. # [11:12] <MikeSmith> I know Gecko does
  210. # [11:13] <MikeSmith> can't remember about others
  211. # [11:13] <MikeSmith> doublec: ?
  212. # [11:13] <MikeSmith> caniuse nor nobody else tracking status of it as far as I can tell
  213. # [11:14] <MikeSmith> hmm Gecko and WebKit I guess
  214. # [11:14] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-impl/
  215. # [11:15] <MikeSmith> wonder about IE10
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  249. # [12:43] <doublec> MikeSmith: gecko and webkit is what I know of
  250. # [12:43] <doublec> MikeSmith: Opera had a demo, not sure if they finished it
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  253. # [12:50] <zcorpan> hsivonen: isn't power of two also wrong? i don't see why 3x3 device pixels per css pixel is obviously bad
  254. # [12:51] <zcorpan> but maybe i'm missing something
  255. # [12:51] <annevk> 3^2 == 3x3 though
  256. # [12:53] <zcorpan> ....so it is
  257. # [12:54] * zcorpan tries to think of something to blame
  258. # [12:54] <jgraham> Uh, I don't think that's what hsivonen meant
  259. # [12:55] <jgraham> Or at least if he did I didn't understand him either
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  261. # [12:55] <zcorpan> the sentence under discussion is "Ideally, the number of device pixels per CSS pixel would be a multiple of two."
  262. # [12:55] <jgraham> 3 isn't a multiple of two (for reasonable meanings of "multiple")
  263. # [12:56] <zcorpan> but you'd have 9 device pixels per css pixel, not 3
  264. # [12:56] <jgraham> Which is still neither a power nor a multiple of two
  265. # [12:58] <zcorpan> ah so my thinking was right anyway
  266. # [12:58] <zcorpan> it should be n^2 not 2^n
  267. # [12:58] <jgraham> I think that Hixie means linearly pixels_device = 2^N pixels_css
  268. # [12:59] <jgraham> Or maybe he means 2N
  269. # [12:59] <zcorpan> he clearly *wrote* 2N, what he meant i have no idea :-)
  270. # [12:59] <jgraham> Makes more sense
  271. # [13:00] <jgraham> I don't even understand why this is "ideal"
  272. # [13:00] <jgraham> So maybe I should just stop talking
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  280. # [13:30] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: I can review a patch, sure.
  281. # [13:30] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: ok
  282. # [13:30] <MikeSmith> thanks
  283. # [13:30] <MikeSmith> it's only a couple lines, so I'll post it here I guess
  284. # [13:31] <MikeSmith> gist
  285. # [13:31] <MikeSmith> cause seems to be lack of null check in the Rhino code
  286. # [13:31] <MikeSmith> for which I filed a Mozilla bug
  287. # [13:31] <MikeSmith> but from validator side, the fix would seem to be this: https://gist.github.com/3809647a
  288. # [13:32] <MikeSmith> passing an actual Context object instead of null
  289. # [13:32] <hsivonen> 404 says github
  290. # [13:32] <MikeSmith> oh
  291. # [13:32] <hsivonen> their 404 page is pretty cool
  292. # [13:33] <MikeSmith> hey yeah
  293. # [13:33] <MikeSmith> will make you dizzy though
  294. # [13:33] <MikeSmith> ok will try to re-post it
  295. # [13:35] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: OK, https://gist.github.com/3811066 should work I think
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  298. # [13:40] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: “Each call to enterContext() must have a matching call to Context.exit().”
  299. # [13:40] <MikeSmith> aha
  300. # [13:40] <MikeSmith> OK
  301. # [13:40] <MikeSmith> will fix that
  302. # [13:40] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: in a finally block
  303. # [13:40] <MikeSmith> OK
  304. # [13:41] <hsivonen> to make sure it gets called
  305. # [13:41] <MikeSmith> hai
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  307. # [13:42] <MikeSmith> only reason I'm using enterContext() to begin with is that their API docs say simple "new Context()" is deprecated
  308. # [13:42] <MikeSmith> anyway, will fix it an e-mail to you
  309. # [13:42] <hsivonen> it’s not a good sign that Rhino is hosted on SVN and Google doesn’t find the javadocs on www.mozilla.org
  310. # [13:43] <hsivonen> the API is quite bizarre
  311. # [13:43] <hsivonen> enterContext() returns a Context, but .exit() is not on that object but on the class
  312. # [13:43] <hsivonen> apparently the class keeps a ThreadLocal somewhere
  313. # [13:44] * hsivonen is not sure how great an idea it is for this stuff to support multithreading
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  315. # [13:44] <hsivonen> considering that JS doesn’t have facilities for shared memory threads
  316. # [13:44] <hsivonen> (at least not that I’m aware of)
  317. # [13:46] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: the whole API seems really baroque to me
  318. # [13:49] <hsivonen> I wonder if Yandex ships NPAPI Flash or Pepper Flash
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  320. # [13:55] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: OK please lemme know if the following is sane
  321. # [13:55] <MikeSmith> https://gist.github.com/3811142
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  324. # [14:00] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: yeah, but you don’t need two try blocks. You only need one try and you can have both catch and finally on it
  325. # [14:00] <MikeSmith> ah yeah
  326. # [14:00] <MikeSmith> OK
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  328. # [14:08] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: OK, the following should do it, right?
  329. # [14:08] <MikeSmith> https://gist.github.com/3811200
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  332. # [14:16] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: yeah, r+. thanks
  333. # [14:19] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: thanks much
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  348. # [15:08] <annevk> MikeSmith: shouldn't it be ex.exit() ?
  349. # [15:09] <annevk> MikeSmith: sorry, cx.exit()
  350. # [15:09] <annevk> MikeSmith: or is it a static method?
  351. # [15:09] <MikeSmith> yeah
  352. # [15:09] <MikeSmith> so called on the class
  353. # [15:09] <annevk> weird
  354. # [15:09] <MikeSmith> mind you I don't really understand that code well
  355. # [15:09] <MikeSmith> that's just exactly what the API docs say to do
  356. # [15:10] <MikeSmith> annevk: there is lots more weirdness in that code
  357. # [15:10] <annevk> but they don't mean you invoke it on the instance?
  358. # [15:10] <MikeSmith> no, they don't
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  361. # [15:10] <MikeSmith> not as far as I can tell
  362. # [15:10] <annevk> I mean I sometimes talk about XMLHttpRequest.responseText...
  363. # [15:10] <annevk> okay
  364. # [15:11] <annevk> in other news, writing new slides is boring
  365. # [15:11] <MikeSmith> yeah man
  366. # [15:11] <annevk> my trick was going to be to talk about 10 lines of HTML for an hour, but actually working that all out... meh
  367. # [15:12] <hsivonen> annevk: what’s the talk?
  368. # [15:12] <MikeSmith> boringness of it is why I wait to makes slides til 3am of the morning when I need to present
  369. # [15:12] <annevk> it's for http://fronteers.nl/congres/2012
  370. # [15:12] <annevk> my plan is to talk about complexity
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  372. # [15:13] <MikeSmith> annevk: fwiw, my experience in seeing you present is that you can in fact actually take 10 lines of code and talk about them for an hour and actually make it interesting the whole time
  373. # [15:15] <hsivonen> annevk: I suggest talking about browsing contexts then
  374. # [15:15] <annevk> oh man, browsing contexts :)
  375. # [15:15] <hsivonen> In my experience, the best way to be productive is not even trying to ever fix anything browsing context-related
  376. # [15:15] * hsivonen is right now trying to fix something browsing context-related
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  399. # [16:00] <Ms2ger> irc.w3.org down?
  400. # [16:00] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: yeah
  401. # [16:01] * Joins: vikash (~vikash@unaffiliated/vikash)
  402. # [16:01] <reggna> Ms2ger: MIT is having some problems.
  403. # [16:01] * Joins: gavinc (~gavin@50.0.77.3)
  404. # [16:01] <MikeSmith> dunno what's going on because I can''t even get on w3c IRC to harass the systems team
  405. # [16:01] <MikeSmith> nor e-mail
  406. # [16:01] <MikeSmith> some MIT-wide outage, I think
  407. # [16:01] <reggna> 15:30:58 < w3c> Network problems at MIT are causing failures connecting to W3C servers hosted there. MIT admins are working on the issue.
  408. # [16:02] * gavinc mutters something about being awake at 6:30 am on a monday for no reason
  409. # [16:02] <Ms2ger> Better than 6:30 AM on a Sunday
  410. # [16:03] <gavinc> Ms2ger: Very true
  411. # [16:06] <darobin> MIT is back
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  441. # [17:33] <volkmar> darobin: is http://respec.specifiction.com/js/profiles/w3c-common.js the latest respec version?
  442. # [17:39] * Quits: gavinc (~gavin@50.0.77.3) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
  443. # [17:40] <darobin> volkmar: nope, but hang on, I'm on a call
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  446. # [17:44] <darobin> volkmar: repo for the latest is at https://github.com/darobin/respec/
  447. # [17:44] <darobin> volkmar: linking to the latest is from http://www.w3.org/Tools/respec/respec-w3c-common
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  450. # [17:47] <volkmar> darobin: great 'partial' is now supported
  451. # [17:47] <darobin> volkmar: yes, and a bunch of other stuff too
  452. # [17:47] <darobin> the code is 95% new, but it should be backwards compatible
  453. # [17:48] <darobin> that is, if you haven't been doing dirty hacks that monkey patch the internals :)
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  456. # [17:49] <volkmar> and I can use sequence
  457. # [17:49] <volkmar> great
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  460. # [17:56] <darobin> volkmar: if you find issues, please use the GH tracker
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  482. # [18:46] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
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  532. # [20:34] <Hixie> cabanier: please avoid cross-posting e-mails to the whatwg list and another list -- because the whatwg list is subscriber-posts-only, it causes the threads to fragment and confuse people only on the whatwg list
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  534. # [20:34] <Hixie> cabanier: better to either do it all in the whatwg list or do it all in the other list and then send a summary or pointer to the whatwg list
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  540. # [20:46] <cabanier> hixie: OK. I assumed Dirk had wanted to post to both
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  543. # [20:46] <Hixie> cabanier: he shouldn't cross-post either :-) (but i think he actually posted to both separately)
  544. # [20:47] <Hixie> (or at least that's now i interpreted his PS, i didn't check)
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  614. # [23:22] <krit> Hixie: Yes, posted it a second time after a request of Rik ;)
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  645. # Session Close: Tue Oct 02 00:00:00 2012

The end :)