/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-12-19 / end

Options:

# Session Start: Wed Dec 19 00:00:00 2012
# Session Ident: #whatwg
# [00:05] <Hixie> back
# [00:06] * Joins: Stevef (~chatzilla@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [00:06] <Hixie> JonathanNeal: when i looked at pages, i found that actually "skip to main content" links, #main, .main, .content, etc, were actually not used that consistently at all
# [00:07] <Hixie> heycam: is it tracked? should i file a bug? i want to make sure either you fix it or i do :-)
# [00:07] * Quits: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [00:07] <heycam> Hixie, I am tracking which mails I haven't responded to on the list, so I will get to it
# [00:07] <heycam> at some point
# [00:07] <heycam> :)
# [00:07] <Stevef> hixie: why not provide data to back up your opinions or rebutt the data provided?
# [00:08] <Hixie> heycam: k. If that one's on your list, I shall delete it from mine :-)
# [00:08] <Hixie> Stevef: i did, long ago, nothing's changed since
# [00:08] * Quits: Areks_home (~Areks@95-26-27-162.broadband.corbina.ru) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [00:09] <Stevef> hixie: so point to this long ago data
# [00:09] <erlehmann> JonathanNeal, my own irc client is a collection of shell scripts working upon a filesystem that has FIFOs for irc channels.
# [00:09] <Hixie> Stevef: it's in the archives somewhere. i really don't care enough about it to argue the case further.
# [00:09] <erlehmann> this is the foundation (not from me) http://tools.suckless.org/ii/ this is the client https://github.com/erlehmann/uii
# [00:10] <Hixie> Stevef: if you're right, then you'll convince the browser vendors and they'll implement it and it'll get added to the spec without me having to argue about it.
# [00:10] <Hixie> Stevef: if you're wrong, then we're already done
# [00:10] * Quits: danzik171 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [00:10] <erlehmann> I see a game-theoretic problem with <main>. If there is no easier way than marking everything else up, people will mark everything else up
# [00:10] <erlehmann> because it is the rational thing to do
# [00:11] <erlehmann> if you enable to mark up <main> without marking up <nav> or <header> or <footer>, then you lose semantics
# [00:12] <Stevef> hixie: I an optimistic on that front, and its already specced as well so you don't have to do anything :-)
# [00:15] * Quits: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: The computer fell asleep)
# [00:15] * Joins: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [00:17] <Hixie> erlehmann: that's a concern, but not one i've examined closely since unless there's a point to the feature, i don't generally look at the feature's problems
# [00:17] * Joins: danzik17 (~danzik17@ool-45787007.dyn.optonline.net)
# [00:18] <erlehmann> Stevef, JonathanNeal, would it help to spec the scooby doo algorithm?
# [00:18] <Hixie> it's called "interpreting HTML correctly"
# [00:18] <Hixie> there's really no algorithm to spec
# [00:19] * Quits: Jonadabe (~Jonadabe@bl9-78-202.dsl.telepac.pt) (Quit: http://www.visitportugal.com | http://www.youtube.com/visitportugal)
# [00:20] * Quits: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
# [00:20] <JonathanNeal> Hixie: I understand your point of view just from your initial remark. When you looked at pages, you did not see "main" being used consistently.
# [00:21] <Stevef> erlehmann: there have been discussions about doing that, nothing concrete yet
# [00:21] <erlehmann> i think i have not understood the hard use case of <main>.
# [00:21] <erlehmann> Stevef, I would rather have a common heuristic than a new element.
# [00:22] <JonathanNeal> And you do not think developers should be able to explicitly define the content that is directly related to or expands upon the central topic of the document.
# [00:22] <Hixie> JonathanNeal: i think they already do explicitly do that. Just putting the content in the document is doing that.
# [00:23] * Quits: svl (~me@port-92-192-60-242.dynamic.qsc.de) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
# [00:24] <Hixie> anyone with IE handy?
# [00:24] <erlehmann> JonathanNeal, many of my documents do not have <aside> or <nav>. like the one with the polyfill for media fragments and stuff.
# [00:24] <Hixie> looking to find out what happens in IE when you click "Open" on http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/2029
# [00:24] <erlehmann> which IE?
# [00:24] <Hixie> any really
# [00:24] <erlehmann> let me try if it still works
# [00:24] <JonathanNeal> I have IE.
# [00:25] <JonathanNeal> No cat is shown and no error is thrown in IE8.
# [00:25] <erlehmann> i have IE8 on linux. :3
# [00:25] <Hixie> JonathanNeal: thanks
# [00:25] <Hixie> erlehmann: that's... hard core
# [00:26] <JonathanNeal> erlehmann rewrote the entire thing for linux, manually sectioned off all the bugs. it can interpret the web as ie1 through 11.
# [00:26] <erlehmann> hixie, nowadays, not so anymore. using a package called „playonlinux“ one can create a custom wine installation for programs. delete that folder … and. well.
# [00:26] <erlehmann> here, more info about this http://www.playonlinux.com/en/commentaires-577.html
# [00:27] <Hixie> fun
# [00:27] <erlehmann> it is like a package manager for windows software
# [00:28] * Quits: Stevef (~chatzilla@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [00:39] <erlehmann> well, that IE is bogging down my computer ;_;
# [00:39] <erlehmann> also, it was IE7
# [00:39] <erlehmann> and absolutely nothing happens when clicking that button
# [00:40] <Hixie> thanks
# [00:40] <erlehmann> well, i am not sure what should happen
# [00:40] <Hixie> a cat should appear, per spec
# [00:44] <erlehmann> this is how i tested (ogg theora video) http://mister-muffin.de/p/yZj8
# [00:44] <erlehmann> i hope it was right
# [00:44] <erlehmann> and the cat was not somewhere else
# [00:46] <Hixie> yup, that's right :-)
# [00:46] <erlehmann> good :)
# [00:46] <Hixie> if you test in webkit-based browsers or opera, you'll see the cat
# [00:47] <erlehmann> you realize that sounds like a 90ies hit-the-monkey thing? ;)
# [00:47] <Hixie> -_-
# [00:51] <erlehmann> wait, in conkeror also nothing happens.
# [00:52] <erlehmann> for http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?saved=2029
# [00:52] <erlehmann> i'll check chromium
# [00:52] <Hixie> how ancient is conkeror's rendering engine?
# [00:54] <erlehmann> i believe it is somewhat current xul magic
# [00:54] <erlehmann> gecko
# [00:54] <erlehmann> let me check
# [00:55] <erlehmann> chromium shows a cat, Version 21.0.1180.89 Debian wheezy/sid (154005)
# [00:56] <Hixie> if it's gecko then yeah, no cat
# [00:56] <erlehmann> oh okay
# [00:57] <erlehmann> cats, internet. oh well.
# [00:58] <zewt> o/~ dreaming of the day vertically centering stuff isn't a migraine
# [00:59] <TabAtkins> Dude, this is already a reality in browsers that support new flexbox.
# [00:59] <zewt> dude, doesn't help squat until every browser has it
# [00:59] <Hixie> TabAtkins: do you have a data: url example?
# [00:59] <TabAtkins> Hixie: Of vertical centering?
# [01:00] <Hixie> yeah
# [01:00] <Hixie> i'm not up on flexbox
# [01:00] <TabAtkins> Sure, one sec.
# [01:00] <zewt> wonder if there are any passable flexbox polyfills, though
# [01:02] <zewt> guess that's pretty hard without mutation observers (which isn't any more available)
# [01:02] * Quits: ap (~ap@17.114.111.158) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:02] * Joins: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:b8d5:cfcc:145f:af80)
# [01:03] <TabAtkins> data:text/html;charset=utf-8,<!DOCTYPE%20html>%0A<div%20id%3Dcontainer>%0A%20<div%20id%3Dchild>foo<%2Fdiv>%0A<%2Fdiv>%0A<style>%0Adiv%20%7B%20background%3A%20rgba(0%2C0%2C0%2C.2)%3B%20%7D%0A%23container%20%7B%20height%3A%20100px%3B%20width%3A%20100px%3B%20display%3A%20-webkit-flex%3B%20-webkit-justify-content%3A%20center%3B%20-webkit-align-items%3A%20center%3B%20%7D%0A<%2Fstyle>
# [01:03] <zewt> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
# [01:03] <TabAtkins> ???
# [01:04] <TabAtkins> Hixie: justify-content handles alignment in the main axis, align-items in the cross axis. By default, a flexbox is horizontal, so its main axis is horizontal.
# [01:05] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@24.130.60.35)
# [01:07] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
# [01:11] <Hixie> TabAtkins: neat
# [01:11] <Hixie> pity about the prefixes ;-)
# [01:11] <TabAtkins> Hixie: FF's unprefixed stuff is percolating through their releases, Opera is already unprefixed, and we will be shortly.
# [01:11] <Hixie> cool
# [01:12] <TabAtkins> IE10 is both prefixed and uses an older set of names, because they did a code-freeze about a month before we did a mass-rename.
# [01:12] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
# [01:13] * Quits: Druide_ (~Druid@ip-178-203-141-163.unitymediagroup.de)
# [01:13] <Hixie> so #container { position: absolute; top: 0; left: 0; right: 0; bottom: 0; display: -webkit-flex; -webkit-justify-content: center; -webkit-align-items: center; } basically centers kids in a row in the viewport?
# [01:13] <Hixie> cool stuff
# [01:13] <TabAtkins> Correct.
# [01:13] <Hixie> is there a way to center boxes with overflow going to multiple rows?
# [01:14] <Hixie> (similar to what whatwg.org has, but with flex)
# [01:14] <TabAtkins> -webkit-flex-wrap: wrap;
# [01:14] <TabAtkins> It won't balance the rows, but as soon as one fills up they'll break to another one.
# [01:14] <TabAtkins> (Balancing is planned for level 2, but it's complicated and wasn't necessary for most cases.)
# [01:15] <Hixie> sweet
# [01:15] <Hixie> yeah, nice, this is awesome
# [01:15] <Hixie> cool, need to read up on this
# [01:15] <TabAtkins> flexbox++
# [01:16] <TabAtkins> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-flexbox
# [01:16] <TabAtkins> Pretty happy with how we wrote that spec.
# [01:21] * Quits: dgorbik (~dgorbik@2620:149:4:304:9935:96cd:87a1:1f4b) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [01:21] * Joins: dgorbik (~dgorbik@17.202.47.150)
# [01:23] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi)
# [01:25] * Joins: yorick (~quassel@vredebest.xs4all.nl)
# [01:25] * Quits: yorick (~quassel@vredebest.xs4all.nl) (Changing host)
# [01:25] * Joins: yorick (~quassel@unaffiliated/yorick)
# [01:39] * Joins: Yuhong (~chatzilla@S01060019d1e384a3.vc.shawcable.net)
# [01:40] <Yuhong> On http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?saved=2029
# [01:40] <Yuhong> IE10RP
# [01:41] <Yuhong> Click Open does nothing.
# [01:41] <Yuhong> In IE10 mode.
# [01:41] <Hixie> cool, thanks
# [01:41] <Yuhong> Same in IE9 mode.
# [01:42] <Yuhong> IE8 just tested, same thing.
# [01:42] <Yuhong> IE7 too.
# [01:42] <Hixie> you have many IEs :-)
# [01:43] <Yuhong> Thanks to X-UA-Compatible.
# [01:43] <Yuhong> And the developer tools.
# [01:43] <Hixie> ah, you mean IE10 in IE7 mode
# [01:43] <Hixie> k
# [01:43] * Quits: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-baewnmlgldxtkmyy) (Quit: There's no place like home...)
# [01:44] <Yuhong> Yea, I was just lazy.
# [01:44] <Hixie> for the record, especially for this kind of thing (involving navigation) it's not always a given that the modes are exactly equivalent to the original browsers
# [01:44] <Hixie> there are definitely cases where they're not exactly the same
# [01:44] <Hixie> iirc, <base> handling changed at some point even in the old modes
# [01:44] <Hixie> for example
# [01:45] <Yuhong> I know. It can be done inadvertently, or it can be done deliberately, eg. CSS visited/link handling for privacy reasons.
# [01:46] * Quits: yorick (~quassel@unaffiliated/yorick) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:46] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@24.130.60.35) (Quit: weinig)
# [01:46] <Yuhong> Navigation in particular require cooperation from the chrome.
# [01:47] <erlehmann> i can test IEs down to one :3
# [01:47] <erlehmann> but i won't
# [01:48] <Yuhong> I see no reason to anyway.
# [01:48] <zewt> use your power for good, not evil
# [01:50] * Quits: say2joe (~say2joe@204.56.108.2) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [01:52] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [01:52] <erlehmann> btw, i still do not know how to go further in the media fragments for embedded content thingy
# [01:52] <Yuhong> I wonder why IE9 don't use the original jscript.dll in the IE8 and IE7 modes.
# [01:52] <erlehmann> should i pick a browser and make an extension?
# [01:52] * Quits: mkanat (mkanat@nat/google/x-pwpompjdkauesofc) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [01:53] <Yuhong> Of course, this would come at a cost of losing the performance enhancements in jscript9.dll.
# [01:56] * Joins: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@client-67-58-228-190.consolidated.net)
# [02:02] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@24.130.60.35)
# [02:06] * Quits: teleject (~christoph@cpe-70-112-214-94.austin.res.rr.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [02:06] * Quits: Yuhong (~chatzilla@S01060019d1e384a3.vc.shawcable.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232])
# [02:09] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@173-164-253-217-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [02:09] * Quits: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:b8d5:cfcc:145f:af80) (Quit: ap)
# [02:12] * Quits: Benvie (~brandon@cpe-174-097-187-248.nc.res.rr.com)
# [02:13] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [02:22] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@24.130.60.35) (Quit: weinig)
# [02:26] * Quits: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@client-67-58-228-190.consolidated.net) (Quit: JohnAlbin)
# [02:26] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@192.150.22.55) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [02:29] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [02:29] <jwalden> probably DLL incompatibilities
# [02:29] <jwalden> all but certainly those
# [02:30] <jwalden> newer JS has a lot of stuff to it that could have been done differently before; I doubt the old interface could be used compatibly
# [02:35] * Joins: mkanat (mkanat@nat/google/x-vradmcyxvkmereqw)
# [02:44] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@108-71-93-34.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
# [02:49] <zewt> heh, i hate the "opening windows only on click" thing, because it makes me afraid to click
# [02:51] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@24.130.60.35)
# [02:52] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
# [02:56] * Joins: jonlee (~jonlee@67.218.104.40)
# [02:57] <zewt> all minified javascript needs to be shot into the sun
# [02:57] * Joins: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@client-67-58-228-190.consolidated.net)
# [02:58] <erlehmann> zewt, use a different browser with keyboard? vimperator or conkeror?
# [03:02] * Joins: Yuhong (~chatzilla@S01060019d1e384a3.vc.shawcable.net)
# [03:03] * Joins: jonlee_ (~jonlee@67.218.104.40)
# [03:04] * Quits: jonlee (~jonlee@67.218.104.40) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [03:04] * jonlee_ is now known as jonlee
# [03:04] * Quits: Yuhong (~chatzilla@S01060019d1e384a3.vc.shawcable.net) (Client Quit)
# [03:07] * Quits: doublec (~doublec@unaffiliated/doublec) (Quit: leaving)
# [03:07] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-86.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
# [03:08] * Joins: doublec (~doublec@cd.pn)
# [03:08] * Quits: doublec (~doublec@cd.pn) (Client Quit)
# [03:10] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@c-76-122-148-63.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-5.1450hg.fc17 [XULRunner 17.0.1/20121129151931])
# [03:10] * Joins: doublec (~none@unaffiliated/doublec)
# [03:13] * Quits: pablof (~pablof@144.189.150.129) (Quit: ^z)
# [03:20] * Joins: jonlee_ (~jonlee@67.218.104.40)
# [03:20] * Quits: jonlee (~jonlee@67.218.104.40) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [03:20] * jonlee_ is now known as jonlee
# [03:27] * Quits: jonlee (~jonlee@67.218.104.40) (Quit: jonlee)
# [03:30] <erlehmann> this is using my audio polyfill http://warumnicht.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/wn-15.html
# [03:35] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~anonymous@38.122.109.194) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
# [03:39] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@brln-4db81f66.pool.mediaWays.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [03:40] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@108-71-93-34.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [03:40] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-72-94-180-24.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
# [03:49] * Quits: jsoncorwin (~textual@c-50-131-117-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
# [03:50] * Quits: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@client-67-58-228-190.consolidated.net) (Quit: JohnAlbin)
# [03:50] * Joins: lilmonkey (~colin@53518387.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
# [03:50] * Quits: lilmonkey (~colin@53518387.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Changing host)
# [03:50] * Joins: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
# [03:53] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-9tz.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net)
# [03:58] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
# [04:00] * Quits: mkanat (mkanat@nat/google/x-vradmcyxvkmereqw) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [04:03] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@24.130.60.35) (Quit: weinig)
# [04:08] * Quits: linclark (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Quit: linclark)
# [04:09] * Joins: jonlee (~jonlee@c-76-21-10-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [04:09] * Joins: Mkop1 (~mkopinsky@unaffiliated/mkop)
# [04:16] * Quits: Mkop1 (~mkopinsky@unaffiliated/mkop) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
# [04:18] * Quits: jonlee (~jonlee@c-76-21-10-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: jonlee)
# [04:29] * Joins: Mkop1 (~mkopinsky@unaffiliated/mkop)
# [04:30] * Joins: JonathanNeal (~anonymous@cpe-142-11-82-156.socal.rr.com)
# [04:30] <JonathanNeal> hello
# [04:36] * Quits: nattokirai (~nattokira@rtr.mozilla.or.jp) (Quit: nattokirai)
# [04:36] * Joins: Areks_home (~Areks@95-26-27-162.broadband.corbina.ru)
# [04:43] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@24.130.60.35)
# [04:51] * Quits: Areks_home (~Areks@95-26-27-162.broadband.corbina.ru) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
# [05:07] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
# [05:08] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net)
# [05:09] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@70.112.101.224)
# [05:15] * Joins: snowfox_ben (~benschaaf@c-98-243-88-119.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
# [05:15] * Quits: snowfox_ben (~benschaaf@c-98-243-88-119.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
# [05:30] * ojan_away is now known as obarth_away
# [05:36] * Quits: mamund (~mamund@obsidian.recompiled.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [05:38] * Quits: eresair (~eresair@173.247.199.2) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [05:40] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-72-94-180-24.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
# [05:42] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@24.130.60.35) (Quit: weinig)
# [05:52] * Quits: webguynow (~webguynow@c-24-1-222-204.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
# [05:55] * Joins: niloy (~niloy@203.196.177.156)
# [06:02] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~anonymous@cpe-142-11-82-156.socal.rr.com) (Quit: JonathanNeal)
# [06:09] * rniwa is now known as rniwa|afk
# [06:10] * Joins: eresair (~eresair@c-24-5-78-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [06:16] * Quits: eresair (~eresair@c-24-5-78-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [06:23] * Quits: Mkop1 (~mkopinsky@unaffiliated/mkop) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [06:32] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@70.112.101.224) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [06:33] * Joins: hdhoang (~hdhoang@113.190.37.242)
# [06:36] * Joins: JonathanNeal (~anonymous@cpe-142-11-82-156.socal.rr.com)
# [06:41] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
# [06:52] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: rniwa)
# [06:52] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
# [07:00] * Joins: jsoncorwin (~textual@c-98-210-130-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [07:00] * Joins: [[zzz]] (~q@node-18zg.pool-101-109.dynamic.totbb.net)
# [07:02] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com)
# [07:03] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [07:04] * Quits: [[zz]] (~q@node-adz.pool-125-25.dynamic.totbb.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [07:10] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [07:15] * Quits: danzik17 (~danzik17@ool-45787007.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [07:19] * Joins: dydx (~dydz@76.220.18.65)
# [07:35] * Quits: dydx (~dydz@76.220.18.65) (Quit: dydx)
# [07:53] * Quits: jsoncorwin (~textual@c-98-210-130-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
# [07:54] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
# [07:55] * [[zzz]] is now known as [[zz]]
# [07:55] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@ip-166.net-89-2-153.rev.numericable.fr)
# [08:06] * Joins: jonlee (~jonlee@c-71-202-46-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [08:12] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-9tz.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net) (Quit: จรลี จรลา)
# [08:15] * Joins: maikmerten (~merten@ls5dhcp200.cs.uni-dortmund.de)
# [08:19] * Joins: Ducki_ (~Ducki@pD9E384D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
# [08:28] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
# [08:31] * Joins: Krinkle (~Krinkle@wikimedia/Krinkle)
# [08:33] <Krinkle> Hi, as exercise to get comfortable with spec-language and other interesting things I'm working on a javascript implementation of TreeWalker. However I'm hitting a bug and not sure whether the bug is in Chrome's implementation, the spec or my implementation.
# [08:33] <Krinkle> in WebKit, firstChild() is never the root node.
# [08:33] <Krinkle> in my interpretation of the spec however, the first call to firstChild() is the root node
# [08:34] <Krinkle> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-dom-20120105/#dom-treewalker-currentnode
# [08:34] <Krinkle> http://www.w3.org/TR/dom/#concept-traverse-children
# [08:34] <Krinkle> The filter accepts the root node as the bitmask matches it and it is a valid result.
# [08:35] <Krinkle> it never even accesses .firstChild of the root node, nor does the currentNode pointer changes in this case.
# [08:35] <Krinkle> Any ideas?
# [08:36] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@vpna223.ugent.be)
# [08:36] <Krinkle> document.createTreeWalker(document.body, NodeFilter.SHOW_ALL).firstChild()
# [08:38] <Krinkle> document.createTreeWalker: currentNode = root; TreeWalker..firstChild: node = currrent = currentNode; FilterNode:: node.nodeType -> FILTER_ACCEPT; TreeWalker..firstChild: return node;
# [08:44] * abstractj|away is now known as abstractj
# [08:47] <Ms2ger> First of all, you want to look at http://dom.spec.whatwg.org/
# [08:49] <Krinkle> This section hasn't changed in years.
# [08:49] <Krinkle> I've looked at the dom.spec as well, same phrasing
# [08:49] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-86.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
# [08:50] * Quits: WesleyL (~Wesley@static.43.95.46.78.clients.your-server.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [08:50] * Quits: Scorchin (uid1242@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nfvtvltcnvbxrwhl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [08:50] * Quits: benschwarz (uid2121@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cziaarpjudiddook) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [08:51] <Krinkle> document.createTreeWalker sets currentNode to root, TreeWalker:firstChild sets node to currentNode, it passes Filter, currentNode is set to the same value and returned.
# [08:53] * Quits: Obvious (tachikoma@188.226.74.2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [08:53] * Quits: scheib (uid4467@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hxmhsqoutkoabnxp) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [08:53] * Joins: WesleyL (~Wesley@static.43.95.46.78.clients.your-server.de)
# [08:53] <Ms2ger> Second, Opera is weird
# [08:53] <Ms2ger> Third, looks like you're right
# [08:53] * Joins: benschwarz (uid2121@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oicfaenwbhyfnsli)
# [08:53] * Joins: Stevef (~chatzilla@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [08:54] <Krinkle> Opera?
# [08:54] <Krinkle> What does Opera do
# [08:55] <Ms2ger> Throw an exception
# [08:56] * Joins: Obvious (tachikoma@188.226.74.2)
# [09:07] <Krinkle> So basically as-specified TreeWalker has a fundamental flaw: it doesn't walk.
# [09:07] <Krinkle> firstChild() and lastChild() both have this error. And all other methods can't be used on the root node.
# [09:07] <Krinkle> (prev, next, parent)
# [09:07] <Ms2ger> Can you file a bug?
# [09:08] <Krinkle> newbie, where? I've been going back and forth between 100s of pages to find the correct version, not sure where to go from here.
# [09:08] <Ms2ger> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?product=WebAppsWG&component=DOM
# [09:08] <Krinkle> Thx
# [09:09] <Krinkle> btw. since this is "just" a WD, where can I find the "latest stable version"?
# [09:09] <Krinkle> I'd expect some kind of canonical link, but a redirect or overview would work too
# [09:09] <Krinkle> I found versions with dates in the link and some with "REC-" in them, but since they only point backwards, not forwards, it is hard to find the latest (without also getting into DOM4)
# [09:14] <Krinkle> interesting, confirmation mail is From: bugzilla@jessica.w3.org (jessica.w3)
# [09:18] <Ms2ger> "Tokenization for unquoted url()s doesn't makes sense to me"
# [09:24] * Joins: Druide_ (~Druid@ip-178-203-141-163.unitymediagroup.de)
# [09:27] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no)
# [09:27] <Krinkle> Ms2ger: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20445
# [09:28] * abstractj is now known as abstractj|away
# [09:29] * Joins: pyrsmk (~pyrsmk@96.127.75.86.rev.sfr.net)
# [09:32] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~anonymous@cpe-142-11-82-156.socal.rr.com) (Quit: JonathanNeal)
# [09:36] * Joins: donaldwauchop (~SiliconDo@bas1-aurora91-3096739285.dsl.bell.ca)
# [09:41] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [09:41] <Stevef> erlehmann: spec the heuristic, show how it meets the use cases, get implementers to implement etc. FYI uses cases and rationale doc for <main> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/User:Sfaulkne/main-usecases#Introduction
# [09:43] * Quits: donaldwauchop (~SiliconDo@bas1-aurora91-3096739285.dsl.bell.ca) (Quit: donaldwauchop)
# [09:45] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@static-93.158.79.70.got.public.icomera.com)
# [09:45] <Stevef> JonathanNeal: unrefuted data on use of <div id=main|content> to identify main content area including for skip links and role=main http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Oct/0109.html
# [09:48] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@static-93.158.79.70.got.public.icomera.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [09:48] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@static-93.158.79.70.got.public.icomera.com)
# [09:52] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@static-93.158.79.70.got.public.icomera.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [09:55] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@c-67-180-8-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: sicking)
# [09:58] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
# [10:00] * Quits: Obvious (tachikoma@188.226.74.2) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [10:03] * Joins: Obvious (tachikoma@188.226.74.2)
# [10:06] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@c-67-180-8-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [10:07] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@host81-143-60-194.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
# [10:08] * Joins: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com)
# [10:08] * Quits: jonlee (~jonlee@c-71-202-46-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: jonlee)
# [10:10] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238)
# [10:10] * Joins: henrikkok (~henrikkok@81.27.221.193)
# [10:12] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238) (Client Quit)
# [10:18] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238)
# [10:21] * Joins: tomasf (~tomasf@77.72.97.5.c.fiberdirekt.net)
# [10:21] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: rniwa)
# [10:23] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no)
# [10:27] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-9tz.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net)
# [10:30] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@ip-166.net-89-2-153.rev.numericable.fr) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [10:35] * Joins: Kolombiken1 (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
# [10:35] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [10:36] * Quits: Kolombiken1 (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Client Quit)
# [10:37] * Joins: nonge (~nonge@p508295AB.dip.t-dialin.net)
# [10:40] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
# [10:41] * Quits: nonge_ (~nonge@p5082993E.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
# [10:41] <darobin> had I known that W3CMemes would be this stimulated, I would've pressed to go to CR earlier
# [10:43] <Stevef> darobin: hehe
# [10:46] * Joins: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it)
# [10:49] * Joins: Scorchin (uid1242@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xllwbizymcsampzz)
# [10:51] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@vev69-1-82-232-219-95.fbx.proxad.net)
# [10:52] * Joins: scheib (uid4467@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aneyvncvdkwyiklx)
# [10:53] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@host81-143-60-194.in-addr.btopenworld.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [10:54] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@host81-143-60-194.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
# [10:56] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
# [11:05] * Quits: espadrine (~thaddee_t@85-218-3-163.dclient.lsne.ch) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [11:08] * Quits: henrikkok (~henrikkok@81.27.221.193) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [11:08] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@p5098a42b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
# [11:09] * Joins: henrikkok (~henrikkok@81.27.221.193)
# [11:14] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@81-231-170-159-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
# [11:21] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@81-231-170-159-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [11:23] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@office.oslo.opera.com)
# [11:26] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@c-67-180-8-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: sicking)
# [11:37] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi)
# [11:38] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
# [11:50] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@vpna223.ugent.be) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
# [11:56] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [11:57] * Joins: drublic_ (~drublic@p5098a42b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
# [12:01] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@p5098a42b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
# [12:09] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@109.133.25.170)
# [12:10] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no)
# [12:12] * Quits: adactio (~adactio@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [12:12] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
# [12:14] <annevk> it's actually DOM classes these days http://tantek.com/2012/353/b1/why-html-classes-css-class-selectors
# [12:15] <smaug____> :)
# [12:18] <annevk> darobin: yes, more silly things please!
# [12:20] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [12:20] <darobin> annevk: I'll do my best buddy
# [12:22] <smaug____> annevk: I managed to break only Thunderbird and Seamonkey with MutationObserserver callback interface removal. But those are Gecko specific, so hopefully (and probably) no web pages.
# [12:22] <annevk> wow
# [12:23] <smaug____> breaking things is part of our jobs
# [12:26] <darobin> MikeSmith: do you know what script does the hg -> github sync for the HTML TS?
# [12:26] <darobin> we should not forget to disable it...
# [12:30] * abstractj|away is now known as abstractj
# [12:42] <annevk> hmm, my traversal algorithm had a bug :/
# [12:42] <Ms2ger> I'm afraid it did
# [12:44] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@brln-d9ba462b.pool.mediaWays.net)
# [12:45] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [12:45] <erlehmann> oh hello WHATWG
# [12:46] <erlehmann> again
# [12:46] <Ms2ger> Good morning, erlehmann
# [12:46] <erlehmann> is there a web corpus for web compat?
# [12:46] <erlehmann> i would want to enumerate if treating #foo&t=10 as fragment similar to #foo could be web compatible
# [12:52] <darobin> Ms2ger: you said last night that you'd be interested in helping move things around in the TS?
# [12:52] <Ms2ger> Well, interested... :)
# [12:53] <Ms2ger> I wouldn't mind
# [12:53] <darobin> haha
# [12:53] <darobin> right, well, you volunteered of sorts :)
# [12:53] <darobin> any preference for how to split up the work?
# [12:53] <darobin> unless you want to do it all, of course
# [12:54] <Ms2ger> I think I definitely would mind that ;)
# [12:54] <darobin> :)
# [12:54] <Ms2ger> No preference, really
# [12:54] <darobin> ok
# [12:55] <darobin> I propose that while we're moving, we keep it all in the temp/robin branch
# [12:55] <Ms2ger> Branch? What is this magic? :):
# [12:55] <darobin> once the move is done, we can just overwrite master with that
# [12:55] <darobin> lulz
# [12:55] <darobin> and after that still I'll take care of branching CR
# [12:56] <darobin> (and turning submissions into PRs)
# [12:56] <Ms2ger> Do you want the current submissions in branches too?
# [12:56] <darobin> yes
# [12:56] <darobin> well
# [12:56] <darobin> I want to take all of approved and make that master
# [12:57] <darobin> then take each submission dir and turn that into a pull request
# [12:57] <darobin> (from my own fork)
# [12:57] <darobin> but we'll cross that bridge when we get there
# [12:58] <darobin> re the split, how about I take attributes — fonts and you take foreigncontent — xhtml5
# [12:58] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-9tz.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net) (Quit: จรลี จรลา)
# [12:58] <darobin> then after someone finishes his lot we can resplit or whatevs
# [12:58] * Ms2ger looks
# [12:58] <Ms2ger> Do you have a list?
# [12:59] * Quits: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [13:00] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [13:01] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
# [13:04] <erlehmann> where is the data? https://developers.google.com/webmasters/state-of-the-web/2005/
# [13:04] <darobin> Ms2ger: sorry, got dropped
# [13:04] <darobin> a list of what?
# [13:04] <Ms2ger> The list that goes from attributes to xhtml5
# [13:05] <darobin> oh, I was just looking in https://github.com/w3c/html-testsuite/tree/temp/robin/tests/html
# [13:05] <darobin> err, no, I really wasn't
# [13:06] <darobin> Ms2ger: I was looking here https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html/file/217839a97ea9/tests/approved
# [13:06] <Ms2ger> Ah
# [13:06] <Ms2ger> OK
# [13:07] <darobin> I just split that in twain
# [13:09] * Joins: Ducki (~Ducki@pD9E39660.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
# [13:10] * Quits: Ducki_ (~Ducki@pD9E384D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Read error: Operation timed out)
# [13:14] <annevk> erlehmann: there are some datasets, but none of them is very comprehensive
# [13:14] <erlehmann> annevk, a list of urls would suffice. i can spider!
# [13:15] <annevk> erlehmann: Google's data is not public
# [13:15] <erlehmann> does mozilla have public data?
# [13:16] <annevk> erlehmann: http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2012/04/html5-accessibility-chops-data-for-the-masses/ has a "top 10000" sites
# [13:16] <annevk> there's another one, but I forgot the links
# [13:16] <erlehmann> thx
# [13:17] * Joins: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com)
# [13:17] <erlehmann> > (Please only download if you are going to make use of the data)
# [13:17] <erlehmann> oh i will!
# [13:17] <annevk> I wonder if someone created a wiki page for this
# [13:20] <annevk> http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Data
# [13:21] <darobin> there's also a Community Group about datasets
# [13:23] <annevk> http://www.w3.org/community/webobservatory/ ?
# [13:23] <annevk> not sure that's quite the same
# [13:25] <erlehmann> i'll use the 10000 html files first
# [13:26] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238) (Quit: sedovsek)
# [13:28] <Ms2ger> darobin, so, on your branch, where are the tests?
# [13:32] <MikeSmith> yeah I know what script does that sync
# [13:33] <MikeSmith> have to be ssh'ed into the dvcs.w3.org server to do it
# [13:33] <MikeSmith> to add similar setup for another repo
# [13:33] <MikeSmith> or to modify it
# [13:34] <darobin> Ms2ger: on my branch, there are no tests :)
# [13:34] <Ms2ger> !
# [13:34] <Ms2ger> We're done, then? :)
# [13:34] <darobin> yay!
# [13:35] <darobin> I just nuked everything; I thought I'd move stuff from the hg repo
# [13:36] <Ms2ger> That seems suboptimal
# [13:36] <darobin> annevk: no, I meant http://www.w3.org/community/data-driven-standards/
# [13:37] <darobin> Ms2ger: well, mv path/to/hg/stuff or git mv oldpath newpath didn't strike me as a big diff
# [13:37] <darobin> but I can easily regenerate a repo in which the old structure has the tests in old-tests or some such
# [13:38] <Ms2ger> The difference is that one preserves history and the other doesn't, no?
# [13:38] <darobin> true
# [13:40] <annevk> darobin: added to the wiki
# [13:40] * Joins: darobin_ (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
# [13:41] <darobin_> (well, I'll finish eating first, but after that it won't take a second)
# [13:41] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [13:41] <Ms2ger> You sound French :)
# [13:41] <MikeSmith> cheese course
# [13:42] <darobin_> I am indeed eating a meal I got from the boulangerie next door
# [13:42] * darobin_ is now known as darobin
# [13:50] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@219.64.117.145)
# [13:51] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no)
# [13:51] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@host81-143-60-194.in-addr.btopenworld.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [13:56] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@host81-143-60-194.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
# [13:56] <annevk> DOM now depends on HTML
# [13:57] <annevk> Looking forward to hearing again about modularization
# [13:58] <SimonSapin> annevk: how do you think we should compare URLs to break @import cycles?
# [13:58] <annevk> SimonSapin: serialize the parsed object sans fragment identifier
# [13:58] <annevk> SimonSapin: compare that
# [13:59] <annevk> SimonSapin: that's what happens elsewhere in the platform, e.g. for <iframe>
# [13:59] <annevk> at least per Hixie
# [13:59] <darobin> hey we can have modularisation — it's just that we have this humongous blob as one of the modules :)
# [14:00] <SimonSapin> annevk: makes sense. Thanks
# [14:00] <Ms2ger> Which blob? "The Web"?
# [14:00] <darobin> heh
# [14:00] <SimonSapin> annevk: that implies normalizing percent-encoding, right?
# [14:01] <darobin> actually, I've been meaning (as an idle research project that will likely never happen) to trace all the cross references to see if any logical modules appear
# [14:01] <Ms2ger> Maybe we should merge the webapps/html test suites too
# [14:01] <darobin> we probably could
# [14:02] <Ms2ger> On another note, why not move html/canvas2d/microdata to the top level instead of putting them in tests/?
# [14:03] <darobin> mmm, no strong opinion from me
# [14:05] <Ms2ger> Alright, move them up, then :)
# [14:05] <Stevef> erlemhann:note there is about 100 google search pages in there that are all the same (but from dif URLS)
# [14:06] * Joins: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
# [14:06] * Quits: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Changing host)
# [14:06] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
# [14:06] * Joins: darobin_ (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
# [14:07] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [14:07] <erlehmann> stevef, thx
# [14:07] <Stevef> darobin: there is also http://www.w3.org/community/webdevdata/ marcosc: stareted it recently but no much happened as yet
# [14:07] <Stevef> erlehmann: no problem
# [14:08] <darobin_> looks to me like some of those CGs could be merged
# [14:08] <SimonSapin> annevk: actually I already have something like this in WeasyPrint to decide if an hyperlink is internal or external (they’re represented differently in PDF)
# [14:08] * darobin_ shakes fist at crappy network
# [14:12] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [14:17] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238)
# [14:19] * Parts: nimbu (~nimbu@219.64.117.145)
# [14:19] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
# [14:21] <annevk> SimonSapin: no it doesn't normalize percent-encoding
# [14:24] * Quits: niloy (~niloy@203.196.177.156) (Quit: Leaving)
# [14:25] <annevk> darobin_: whenever I look at modularization of stuff I don't really see a way out
# [14:25] <annevk> darobin_: but your CEO seems to think it's possible so hey, must work!
# [14:26] <annevk> darobin_: although Fetch should prolly be factored out
# [14:29] * darobin_ is now known as darobin
# [14:29] <darobin> annevk: a few things can be factored out, and I think that if we really tried we could do more of it, but the big question is cost
# [14:29] * Quits: hdhoang (~hdhoang@113.190.37.242) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [14:30] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi)
# [14:31] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi) (Client Quit)
# [14:32] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@nat/mozilla/x-mdkmhlckdiiuranc)
# [14:33] * Joins: darobin_ (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
# [14:34] <erlehmann> currently finding out IDs of elements
# [14:34] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [14:34] <erlehmann> using this with a directory of html files http://mister-muffin.de/p/7aN4
# [14:35] <erlehmann> as “./fragmentids.py html > html-id-list”
# [14:35] * Joins: smaug (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi)
# [14:37] <annevk> darobin_: such as?
# [14:37] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@nat/mozilla/x-mdkmhlckdiiuranc) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [14:37] * smaug is now known as smaug____
# [14:38] * darobin_ being driven mad by this net connection
# [14:39] * MikeSmith tries to lend darobin_ some network
# [14:40] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@70.112.101.224)
# [14:41] <darobin_> thanks man
# [14:41] <darobin_> there's plenty of it, just in discrete chunks
# [14:44] * Joins: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@client-67-58-228-190.consolidated.net)
# [14:45] <darobin_> Ms2ger: so one advantage of having the spec dirs under "tests" is that I can point the root of a web server at that dir and not worry about also exposing tools and other such stuff
# [14:45] <darobin_> but that's not a super strong case
# [14:46] <darobin_> so if you want them at the root, speak inside of the next minute
# [14:46] <darobin_> or forever hold your peace
# [14:46] * darobin_ is now known as darobin
# [14:46] <darobin> Ms2ger: the branch with history is temp/new
# [14:53] * Joins: krawchyk (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251)
# [14:55] <darobin> Ms2ger: ok, I put a moving.txt file in there with assignments for movign
# [14:55] <darobin> obviously, you don't have to do all of that, it's just that I won't do what's in your basket for now
# [14:56] * Quits: krawchyk (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [14:59] * Joins: krawchyk (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251)
# [15:01] <Ms2ger> OK
# [15:03] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-72-94-180-24.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
# [15:10] <Ms2ger> Oh man
# [15:10] <Ms2ger> I forgot how awful those MS tests were
# [15:11] * Quits: tomasf (~tomasf@77.72.97.5.c.fiberdirekt.net) (Quit: tomasf)
# [15:13] <darobin> yeah, I hadn't seen them in a while and I'm feeling exactly the same...
# [15:13] <Ms2ger> darobin, I think I'm going to get rid of the subdirs in syntax/parsing
# [15:13] <darobin> Ms2ger: do as makes sense to you
# [15:13] <Ms2ger> Hmm
# [15:13] <darobin> but if you could keep a list of the changes that you make to the tree I'd appreciate it
# [15:13] <Ms2ger> Do I need to create a new contains.json then?
# [15:13] <darobin> that way I can tailor the script to keep them up to date
# [15:13] <darobin> no, don't both
# [15:13] <darobin> bother
# [15:13] <Ms2ger> OK
# [15:14] <darobin> if you tell me that this and that dir are only level 2, I'll make the script know about that
# [15:14] <darobin> and it'll generate the contains.json
# [15:14] <Ms2ger> Sounds good
# [15:14] <darobin> metadata is only good if you don't have to write it
# [15:14] * Joins: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com)
# [15:15] <darobin> the stats on how many tests have link@rel=help in there being a good proof if ever we needed one that humans cannot be entrusted with metadata
# [15:15] <darobin> once we're done moving I'll also make a script that fixes all the broken links in there, gonna be many
# [15:15] <darobin> Ms2ger: so don't bother about broken stuff
# [15:17] <darobin> mmmmm, actually that script could be problematic if I don't want to break things (e.g. that test links)
# [15:17] <darobin> I'll figure out a way
# [15:17] <Ms2ger> Oh, woop
# [15:17] <Ms2ger> s
# [15:18] <Ms2ger> darobin, can you give me push access? :)
# [15:22] <darobin> heh
# [15:23] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no)
# [15:24] <darobin> Ms2ger: do you have push rights to any of the repos in https://github.com/w3c ?
# [15:24] * darobin can't seem to find you
# [15:24] <Ms2ger> Don't think so
# [15:26] <darobin> I've added you to "HTML WG"
# [15:26] * darobin MUAHAHAHAHA
# [15:26] <darobin> anyhoo, you should now have access
# [15:26] <Ms2ger> Noooo :)
# [15:26] <hober> :)
# [15:28] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [15:28] <darobin> looking at some of these tests, I hesitate between truly hardcore and very soothing music
# [15:28] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
# [15:29] * Parts: Steve^ (~stephen@office.moo.com) ("Leaving")
# [15:29] <Ms2ger> data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAMgAAADNCAYAAAD9lT8tAAAAGXRFWHRTb2Z0d2FyZQBBZG9iZSBJbWFnZVJlYWR5ccllPAAAolBJREFUeNrsfQeAHWW1/2/a7W33bi/JJptsNr2HFEILNVLFx1NREZUHz/fUZ33+7YhYn9grdgVRERCQXgIhhQRIb5u6vZfb25T/Od/M3d0UEFSaZMLHLXvv3JlvTvn9zjnfGfUmrMLJ7XWxNdKYS+NOGtbJ6XhlNvnkFLxutrfSWHxSOU4qyMnt+G0Bjf9Ho/vkVJxUkJPb0dt8Gn+i4adx5OR0nFSQV+q8Q68TWHUPjck04jS6TorsSQV5pbZLaHyGhvQaPLZFNP5IZOMWA1at8x57j0MnRfakgrwSm0njMI0v0LifRtNr4Jg4SvV2GnfTeIoO8N8sWHLFdBcUTe
# [15:29] <Ms2ger> jwHhpDJ0X2ld3UN/C5b6SxgcZ5NB6i8QEHzrwSm+Rwitk0znQ8xkIaE3RYpL0WAiEVp14fgUSffPB/BulCSfefFNeTCvJKbIrjMdgiP0zjVBoTafyOxkdo/Pyf/HsajUoaDfw7BJua6XEJ7MhUmLyExnFbw9GaskYNDWd7Mf+6IErmuXDXeb28j37H053cTirIK2K9/5OGi8ZWGnl+Ltmk/ackrMP0eMc/sP8wjTk0ZtG+FhGHaCSPUC1BaiTNVGT6eYmeyIokVNUTUVFCfymb5ULtcjdqlrkRmKKJHY3syKN9bZY+Jv2RXvadFNeTCvJKbDrssOmTNBI8BxbNQmyGhNBeS5bzQkkG6f0nXsI+OYG3gsa59N0lpBBhgkqqiyheOQl7aKKKUIOGsukagnUKAjUKfJUy3GFSF1mC4pYgeyRbTXXaQ5oYiEfGlh8mkMmY5IIkH+37az
# [15:29] <Ms2ger> SqYScKLYdD7aKxl8Zuh1e9EsbFOqkg//rb0zQO0JgiIhWEbwbOUDC0lJjyT/UoScAP6e2VL4IU/xuN9zBMI08RYAlViTRUzXZhyiU+VC10o2yGhsAklf9gy5aJccORNX5gxSg4r/0ShrfmsPdPKch2kO3q4seYn1iOpNpD6qfH7fT0MRp/prH/ZVKWd9LocWDpSQX5F98YVj1eVBCJJM4VA45cR3Bnq4XoJmMG6cwNDnE/kbDNpPENGhewsBboI8FSFY3nezHr6gCqFrmgkHcQDLso+LkXaXg5rkif3XBDDIlBg8k57d8S/9yKgmCFAlmTYNJ+s8Mme5hyUppVpEirCLF9hhRmq2RHwjY5RqDtH5wrhqLvo/EVGm9+I0KsSTS8zmTm30Dn/hSNa4q4wdNDIkgwp+1qgkN7TShx62oS6V/Sn5455ntvo/FtGhUsuC5iFQuuCmEeke
# [15:29] <Ms2ger> ryxS5bnfL0zQwN6yWiET4Qr4Jt34phxx0p4TPcIQXTV3sx4QwPwTQFflIQxVGQzCApCCnJyP4C+rbk0bu14B05WFimm9Yy8mjMXQ7S2ONAsY0OHDvswEzjbwQWGM5dROMKGqc53332jaggj9KootFB47cOPt/7Bjj3Q46QKCyIapImIychOUvGwKkyqu8zvPTHD9Pfrxz3nWtp/IjEXuJwbPUsN1beGEHDRV5buNPW34/Q+fs+GQf/lMSazwyBCAwWXB3Goo+GEJxAh+h2Ulam8xv0+RK5mOO0xG/rpJQDOws48mgG7Wty9DzfGBvWG0lJLqRh0aez9OGk41UOO885Q38EdpCCk5IRJ8hQBzsUXdxu57jBGy6icxNWFYpQq0CzTpehR4H1e3r5ffxrZ26bHeNAlJkEa6WKfd9wQ85a8O82MeO/c5BNAYwWOCT4XBp/odcets5z3h
# [15:29] <Ms2ger> 7AGV8rgbtOtUm1NU7Q8RKpLAeeiZQfuj2Fe67qh0F+/E0/i2LaVQHb1heso4EeP7dMG45J8nhCYnMdvpp0Hn1b8+hYm8PhBzLofjqHXMqC4cA1yb7WzuGOHbTYNb3Wjj5CNiSz3iCG8+hLcx4mv8+AFJ68OIOpy+KItRuBdF5bRpj2SsnGn+yeM/+i58/woZIFJdMgY+gcDQrZ2E
# [15:29] <Ms2ger> ... Oops
# [15:30] * Joins: Ducki_ (~Ducki@pD9E396F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
# [15:31] <darobin> lol
# [15:31] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Ms2ger
# [15:32] * Ms2ger was kicked by Ms2ger (Ms2ger)
# [15:32] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@109.133.25.170)
# [15:32] <zewt> i don't think irc supports data:
# [15:33] <darobin> #whatwg — the best place for Ms2ger pr0m
# [15:33] <darobin> err pr0n
# [15:33] * Quits: Ducki (~Ducki@pD9E39660.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [15:33] <Ms2ger> What? No, I don't want to go to prom with you!
# [15:40] * Joins: MacTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
# [15:45] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@70.112.101.224) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [15:53] <Ms2ger> Hrm, xhtml5
# [15:53] <darobin> Ms2ger: in case it helps, in tools/scripts/id2path.js is a script; you give it an ID and it returns the path
# [15:54] <Ms2ger> <i>Note - This test checks for User Agent requirement as per HTML5 spec NOT the author requirement</i>
# [15:54] <Ms2ger> Yes, thank you, MS...
# [15:54] <Ms2ger> darobin, the main issue is finding the ID :)
# [15:55] <darobin> yeah I know, but some of the file in there have that metadata — at least those can be processed faster :)
# [15:55] <darobin> the tests are littered with that statement :)
# [15:55] <Ms2ger> I love how area_noref.xhtml is a test for no*h*ref
# [15:59] <darobin> I was wondering if this wouldn't be a good moment to rename files
# [15:59] <darobin> I mean, since we're moving them anyway
# [15:59] <darobin> in audio a lot of them are prefixed with audio_
# [16:00] <darobin> which is daft
# [16:00] * Quits: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it) (Quit: Leaving)
# [16:00] * Joins: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it)
# [16:00] * Quits: charl_ (~charl@charl.eu) (Quit: leaving)
# [16:01] <Ms2ger> Yeah
# [16:01] <Ms2ger> Except for audio_001.htm, I think that's slightly better than 001.htm
# [16:01] * Quits: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com) (Quit: yodasw16)
# [16:02] * Quits: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
# [16:02] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@81-231-170-159-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
# [16:03] * Joins: garciawebdev (~garciaweb@190.244.95.154)
# [16:04] <darobin> yeah I guess
# [16:04] <darobin> it's a terrible name either way :)
# [16:04] * Joins: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide1.rockfin.com)
# [16:05] <darobin> then again audio_001/2 didn't end up with audio_003
# [16:05] <Ms2ger> Hrm
# [16:05] <Ms2ger> When an img element, object element, or input element with a type attribute in the Image Button state is contained within a hyperlink and has a border attribute whose value, when parsed using the rules for parsing non-negative integers, is found to be a number greater than zero, the user agent is expected to...
# [16:06] <Ms2ger> Does that mean border='' only works inside a hyperlink?
# [16:07] * Joins: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com)
# [16:07] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@64.3.1.6.ptr.us.xo.net)
# [16:09] <darobin> I thought border did nothing outside of a link anyway?
# [16:10] * Joins: scor (~scor@w0117883.mgh.harvard.edu)
# [16:10] * Quits: scor (~scor@w0117883.mgh.harvard.edu) (Changing host)
# [16:10] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
# [16:10] <darobin> but then again, the only role img@border ever had was as something everyone set to 0 in their template
# [16:10] <Ms2ger> http://w3c-test.org/html/tests/approved/xhtml5/img_border_percent.xhtml
# [16:10] <Ms2ger> What's up here, then?
# [16:12] * Ms2ger moves it back to submissions
# [16:14] <darobin> the test runs correctly in implems
# [16:14] <darobin> I don't see why it's in XHTML though...
# [16:14] <darobin> and I can't be arsed to look up @border in the spec, it brings back too many bad memories :)
# [16:14] <darobin> good things those audio tests are being moved to media-elements — half of them apply to video too...
# [16:21] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@81-231-170-159-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [16:22] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@81-231-170-159-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
# [16:22] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@81-231-170-159-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [16:24] * Joins: Ducki (~Ducki@pD9E38CE0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
# [16:24] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no)
# [16:26] * Quits: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [16:27] * Quits: Ducki_ (~Ducki@pD9E396F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
# [16:27] * abstractj is now known as abstractj|away
# [16:29] <Ms2ger> Gah
# [16:29] <darobin> you don't say
# [16:29] * Quits: malcolmva (~malcolmva@c-67-180-203-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [16:30] <Ms2ger> darobin, do tell, how do I get that last commit out of the repo? :)
# [16:30] <darobin> you mean revert something you pushed?
# [16:31] <Ms2ger> Yeah
# [16:31] <darobin> git revert deadb33f... should work
# [16:32] <darobin> that's if you want to keep history
# [16:32] <Ms2ger> Not really
# [16:32] <darobin> if you did something particularly stupid like commit your credit card number, you'll want history rewriting tricks
# [16:33] <darobin> well, unless there's a very strong reason to rewrite history in a shared repo, really don't :)
# [16:33] <Ms2ger> Hmm, I seem to have already managed to destroy your base64 change
# [16:33] <darobin> that's not nice of you
# [16:33] <darobin> just do a revert
# [16:33] <Ms2ger> Which doesn't make sense, because I still have it locally
# [16:34] <darobin> it creates a commit that's the opposite of the one that you don't like
# [16:34] <Ms2ger> And now I can't pull...
# [16:34] * Ms2ger clones again
# [16:35] <darobin> it's quite fascinating to see how you have the same problems with git that I always have with hg :)
# [16:35] <Ms2ger> This always happens when I use git
# [16:36] * Quits: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
# [16:36] <darobin> Ms2ger: it reminds me when I used to work for Joost
# [16:37] <darobin> I had a windows laptop that I only ever used for testing, very limited stuff (checkout, start the app, see that it works, move on)
# [16:37] <darobin> it was a perfect clone of the same setup everyone else had
# [16:37] <darobin> but mine would always get weird problems, like losing the key to encrypted dirs and the such
# [16:37] <darobin> they changed the hardware three time, but still the same
# [16:37] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [16:38] <darobin> they eventually figured out that it was a fundamental incompatibility between me and windows, inscribed in the laws of the universe
# [16:40] <Ms2ger> Boo, windows :)
# [16:43] <Ms2ger> Okay, base64 is back
# [16:44] <odinho> Ms2ger: http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?saved=2030 waat is it? :|
# [16:45] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [16:45] <Ms2ger> odinho, it was a sad unicorn
# [16:45] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
# [16:49] * Joins: izhak (~izhak@31.47.113.71)
# [16:49] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [16:49] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
# [16:50] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [16:51] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [16:53] * JohnAlbin is now known as JohnAlbin_afk
# [16:56] <Ms2ger> darobin, stole a few of yours, btw
# [16:59] <darobin> Ms2ger: cool, not canvas I hope
# [16:59] <Ms2ger> No
# [16:59] <darobin> good
# [16:59] <darobin> because there's fuckloads of those and they're taking me a little while ot move :)
# [17:00] <Ms2ger> Yeah
# [17:00] <Ms2ger> They need an update, too
# [17:00] <darobin> indeed
# [17:00] <darobin> but that will wait a bit :)
# [17:00] * Quits: maikmerten (~merten@ls5dhcp200.cs.uni-dortmund.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:02] * Joins: jonlee (~jonlee@67.218.109.204)
# [17:02] * Joins: yorick (~quassel@vredebest.xs4all.nl)
# [17:02] * Quits: yorick (~quassel@vredebest.xs4all.nl) (Changing host)
# [17:02] * Joins: yorick (~quassel@unaffiliated/yorick)
# [17:04] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@64.3.1.6.ptr.us.xo.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [17:09] <Ms2ger> ssh: Could not resolve hostname github.com: Name or service not known
# [17:09] <Ms2ger> Kris is right after all!
# [17:11] <hober> I take it I should be happy I'm not on public-html-testsuite?
# [17:11] <Ms2ger> You should be happy you're not my terminal
# [17:11] <Ms2ger> Because I'd have to beat you :)
# [17:16] * Parts: adactio (~adactio@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
# [17:18] <SimonSapin> does firefox have something like about:memory but for CPU usage?
# [17:18] <Ms2ger> Not AFAIK
# [17:18] <Ms2ger> Sounds difficult to do, too
# [17:20] <Ms2ger> darobin, going to do dataset too
# [17:20] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
# [17:21] * Joins: richt (~richt@office.oslo.opera.com)
# [17:22] * Quits: henrikkok (~henrikkok@81.27.221.193) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [17:22] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:22] <darobin> Ms2ger: ok, that's the last one, right?
# [17:22] * darobin just finished canvas
# [17:22] <Ms2ger> Yep
# [17:23] * Quits: danielfilho|w (~danielfil@200.232.113.107) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [17:23] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com)
# [17:23] <darobin> did you end up only limiting to 2 inside syntax/parsing?
# [17:23] <Ms2ger> Yeah
# [17:23] <darobin> sweet
# [17:23] * Joins: JonathanNeal (~anonymous@cpe-142-11-82-156.socal.rr.com)
# [17:24] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
# [17:27] <Ms2ger> Okay, looks like we're done
# [17:27] <Ms2ger> Worked with git for a couple of hours and only hosed my repo once... Today was a good day.
# [17:27] <darobin> hahaha
# [17:27] <darobin> I sense that you are coming over to the dark side
# [17:28] * darobin high-fives Ms2ger
# [17:28] <darobin> thanks a lot for that
# [17:28] * Ms2ger accidentally smacks darobin in the face
# [17:28] <darobin> the update script now takes depth limitations into account and all, tpoo
# [17:28] <Ms2ger> Np :)
# [17:28] <JonathanNeal> good morning from southern california
# [17:28] <darobin> hehe :)
# [17:31] * Joins: yod (~ot@132.185.139.31)
# [17:31] <erlehmann> 1039 web % grep '&' html-attrib-id -c 2012-12-19 17:27:26 erlehmann pts/12
# [17:31] <erlehmann> 4
# [17:31] <erlehmann> 1045 web % grep '#' html-attrib-href | cut -d'#' -f2 | grep '&t=' -c
# [17:31] <erlehmann> 0
# [17:33] <erlehmann> IDs using „&“ are stuff like „home_header_Food & Wine
# [17:33] <erlehmann> bestseller_Clothing & Accessories
# [17:33] <erlehmann> “
# [17:33] <erlehmann> well
# [17:34] <erlehmann> 1058 web % grep ';' html-attrib-id -c 2012-12-19 17:30:22 erlehmann pts/12
# [17:34] <erlehmann> 0
# [17:35] <erlehmann> this “grep '#' html-attrib-href | cut -d'#' -f2 | grep ';' -c” finds only JavaScript URIs
# [17:35] <erlehmann> i'll summarize my findings on the list
# [17:35] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@brln-d9ba462b.pool.mediaWays.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:38] * Joins: danzik17 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106)
# [17:38] <Ms2ger> darobin, what kind of broken links were you seeing, btw?
# [17:38] <darobin> Ms2ger: a bunch of things refer to common/*
# [17:38] <Ms2ger> Ah, hmm
# [17:39] <darobin> some refer to green-100x50.png
# [17:39] <darobin> there might be a few others
# [17:39] <darobin> $ grep -r common/ tests/* | wc -l
# [17:39] <darobin> 1657
# [17:39] <darobin> "a bunch"
# [17:40] <darobin> $ grep -r green-100 tests/* | wc -l
# [17:40] <darobin> 411
# [17:40] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no)
# [17:40] <darobin> I see a lot of <script src="../../resources/testharnessreport.js"></script> too
# [17:41] <darobin> always in files that have <script src="/resources/testharness.js"></script> right above it
# [17:41] <darobin> which, ahm, how shall I put this?
# [17:41] <Ms2ger> Kris
# [17:41] <darobin> anyway, I'm going to fix those pretty quickly I reckon
# [17:41] <Ms2ger> I fixed one of these
# [17:41] <darobin> ok
# [17:41] <darobin> but don't bother, I'll fix them with automation
# [17:42] <darobin> Everybody Stand Back!
# [17:42] <darobin> (ob https://xkcd.com/208/)
# [17:42] * Ms2ger stands well back
# [17:43] * Quits: Jedi_ (~Jedi@jedi.org) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [17:44] * Joins: zdobersek (~zdobersek@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si)
# [17:45] * Quits: Ducki (~Ducki@pD9E38CE0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [17:45] * Joins: Areks_home (~Areks@95-26-27-162.broadband.corbina.ru)
# [17:46] <JonathanNeal> Nice.
# [17:46] * Joins: Jedi_ (~Jedi@jedi.org)
# [17:51] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:53] <Stevef> JonathanNeal: for you from earlier (in case you missed) http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20121219#l-326
# [17:53] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi)
# [17:54] <JonathanNeal> thanks Stevef, reading
# [17:54] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:55] * Joins: malcolmva (~malcolmva@c-67-180-203-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [17:55] <Stevef> JonathanNeal: also see http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/User:Sfaulkne/main-usecases#Introduction if it is of interest
# [17:56] <JonathanNeal> Wow, just finished the first one. That's a pretty strong correlation.
# [17:56] * Quits: jonlee (~jonlee@67.218.109.204) (Quit: jonlee)
# [17:57] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:58] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl)
# [17:59] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no)
# [17:59] * Parts: yod (~ot@132.185.139.31)
# [18:00] <Stevef> JonathanNeal: the data set is freely available for anyone to analyse and provide argument against...
# [18:00] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [18:01] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@vev69-1-82-232-219-95.fbx.proxad.net) (Read error: No route to host)
# [18:01] * Joins: SimonSapin1 (~simon@2a01:e35:2e8d:b5f0:ea9d:87ff:fe22:e221)
# [18:01] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
# [18:01] * Quits: izhak (~izhak@31.47.113.71) (Read error: Operation timed out)
# [18:01] * Joins: Maurice` (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
# [18:03] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@office.oslo.opera.com) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
# [18:03] * JohnAlbin_afk is now known as JohnAlbin
# [18:03] <Stevef> JonathanNeal: I also drilled down into a random sample of the pages that use id=main|content to look at what elemtn with the id contains https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlVP5_A996c5dHozOW14RkF4NEdEUFRvemxCZ2I4Z3c
# [18:04] * Quits: astearns (~astearns@192.150.22.5) (Quit: astearns)
# [18:05] * Joins: astearns (~astearns@192.150.22.5)
# [18:06] * Joins: danielfilho|w (~danielfil@200.232.113.107)
# [18:07] * Quits: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide1.rockfin.com) (Quit: yodasw16)
# [18:08] * Joins: eresair (~eresair@173.247.199.2)
# [18:11] <JonathanNeal> Stevef: one question, regarding "The <main> element is a semantic element not unlike other new semantic elements such as <header>, <footer>, <aside>, <article>, <nav>, or <section>. Thus, it can also serve other uses where the main content on a Web page/Web application needs to be identified." Doesn't this give it the more liberal definition, e.g. allowing multiple <main> elements within a document?
# [18:11] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [18:13] * Quits: richt (~richt@office.oslo.opera.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [18:14] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-72-94-180-24.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [18:17] <Stevef> JonaThanNeal: don't think so the spec is pretty clear on that
# [18:17] * Joins: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-qdndtrgcjvuisyds)
# [18:17] <JonathanNeal> Okay.
# [18:19] <Stevef> JonaThanNeal: the 'other uses' Silvia's words , refers to utility for search engines as a styling hook, etc
# [18:19] <Stevef> search engines, as a styling hook etc
# [18:21] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@host81-143-60-194.in-addr.btopenworld.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [18:24] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@81-231-170-159-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
# [18:24] * Joins: ap_ (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:b8d5:cfcc:145f:af80)
# [18:25] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@81-231-170-159-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [18:26] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-72-94-180-24.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
# [18:27] <JonathanNeal> Yes, I kept reading it incorrectly, associating it with sectioning groups, like <header>, <footer>, <aside>, <article>, <nav>, or <section>.
# [18:27] * Joins: jonlee (~jonlee@2620:149:4:1b01:295f:8dea:9eca:7f48)
# [18:36] * Quits: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@client-67-58-228-190.consolidated.net) (Quit: JohnAlbin)
# [18:41] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.11.2)
# [18:41] * Joins: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@client-67-58-228-190.consolidated.net)
# [18:42] <Ms2ger> Oh look, CSS is discussing case-sensitivity again
# [18:43] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.11.2) (Client Quit)
# [18:43] <Ms2ger> ... or not
# [18:46] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.105.178.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [18:47] * Quits: malcolmva (~malcolmva@c-67-180-203-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [18:50] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@c-76-122-148-63.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
# [18:51] * Joins: heath (quassel@unaffiliated/ybit)
# [18:51] <tantek> Ms2ger - gotta pay (play?) more attention ;)
# [18:52] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@p5098a42b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
# [18:53] * Quits: drublic_ (~drublic@p5098a42b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
# [18:53] * Joins: pablof (~pablof@144.189.150.129)
# [18:55] <Ms2ger> sylvaing [IE]: Our browser sticks around a bit longer than the average
# [18:55] * Joins: malydok (~marek@156.17.232.82)
# [18:55] <Ms2ger> That's a late submission for the understatement of the year right there
# [18:55] * Quits: SimonSapin1 (~simon@2a01:e35:2e8d:b5f0:ea9d:87ff:fe22:e221) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [18:57] * Joins: say2joe (~say2joe@204.56.108.2)
# [18:59] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.208.93.24)
# [19:00] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.19.229.getinternet.no)
# [19:01] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.208.93.24) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [19:01] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.11.2)
# [19:03] * Quits: shepazu (~shepazu@108-70-132-46.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: shepazu)
# [19:05] * Joins: shepazu (~shepazu@108-70-132-46.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net)
# [19:05] <tantek> Ms2ger: "but we decided that last week" "no reason not to requestion it this week" ;)
# [19:05] <Ms2ger> Sounds like the CSSWG
# [19:06] * Quits: nunnun (~hiro@2001:200:1c0:3625:20c:29ff:fe02:11d2) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [19:06] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238) (Quit: sedovsek)
# [19:06] * abstractj|away is now known as abstractj
# [19:06] <jwalden> there's always time to discuss it in committee!
# [19:07] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@108-75-75-178.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
# [19:08] * Joins: nunnun (~hiro@2001:200:1c0:3625:20c:29ff:fe02:11d2)
# [19:14] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@ip-166.net-89-2-153.rev.numericable.fr)
# [19:16] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [19:18] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@188.24.81.60)
# [19:18] * Quits: alrra (~alrra@188.24.81.60) (Changing host)
# [19:18] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra)
# [19:19] * rniwa|afk is now known as rniwa
# [19:20] * Joins: fr0zenice (~frozenice@unaffiliated/fr0zenice)
# [19:20] * Joins: jsoncorwin (~textual@c-98-210-130-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [19:21] * Quits: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra) (Client Quit)
# [19:22] * Joins: tomasf (~tom@c-44dbe555.024-204-6c6b7012.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
# [19:23] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@70.102.199.158)
# [19:23] * Quits: yorick (~quassel@unaffiliated/yorick) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [19:24] * Joins: yorick (~quassel@vredebest.xs4all.nl)
# [19:24] * Quits: yorick (~quassel@vredebest.xs4all.nl) (Changing host)
# [19:24] * Joins: yorick (~quassel@unaffiliated/yorick)
# [19:26] * Quits: pyrsmk (~pyrsmk@96.127.75.86.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [19:27] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@192.150.22.55)
# [19:27] * Joins: linclark (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
# [19:29] * Quits: ^esc (~esc_ape@77.116.247.3.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [19:32] * Joins: ^esc (~esc_ape@178.115.248.48.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
# [19:37] * Joins: malcolmva (~malcolmva@c-67-180-203-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [19:45] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@64.206.121.41)
# [19:45] * Joins: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide1.rockfin.com)
# [19:48] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
# [19:48] * Quits: sindresorhus (~sindresor@ec2-174-129-116-13.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (Read error: Operation timed out)
# [19:49] * Joins: svl (~me@pD9E56D25.dip.t-dialin.net)
# [19:56] * Joins: pyrsmk (~pyrsmk@2a01:e35:2f52:ead0:303b:b939:1877:7f3f)
# [19:57] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-176-142-132.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)
# [20:03] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-176-142-132.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) (Quit: sedovsek)
# [20:03] * Quits: jsoncorwin (~textual@c-98-210-130-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
# [20:03] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
# [20:05] * Quits: Stevef (~chatzilla@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [20:05] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.11.2) (Quit: weinig)
# [20:09] * attiks|away is now known as attiks
# [20:18] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@p5098a42b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [20:18] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.11.2)
# [20:25] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.11.2) (Quit: weinig)
# [20:27] * linclark is now known as linclark|afk
# [20:30] * Joins: Stevef (~chatzilla@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [20:32] * Joins: jsoncorwin (~textual@c-50-131-117-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [20:34] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.19.229.getinternet.no) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
# [20:34] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.11.2)
# [20:37] * Quits: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
# [20:41] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@108-75-75-178.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [20:44] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.19.229.getinternet.no)
# [20:50] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@HSI-KBW-085-216-106-010.hsi.kabelbw.de)
# [20:53] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
# [20:56] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.19.229.getinternet.no) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
# [20:57] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
# [20:57] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
# [20:58] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
# [20:59] * Joins: krawchyk_ (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251)
# [21:02] * Quits: pyrsmk (~pyrsmk@2a01:e35:2f52:ead0:303b:b939:1877:7f3f) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [21:02] * Quits: krawchyk (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [21:04] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.11.2) (Quit: weinig)
# [21:05] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-86.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
# [21:06] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-86.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
# [21:07] * Joins: pyrsmk (~pyrsmk@2a01:e35:2f52:ead0:303b:b939:1877:7f3f)
# [21:11] * Joins: OnlyMax (~OnlyMax@187-126-37-208.user.veloxzone.com.br)
# [21:12] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@c-67-180-8-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [21:13] * Quits: pyrsmk (~pyrsmk@2a01:e35:2f52:ead0:303b:b939:1877:7f3f) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [21:13] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
# [21:14] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~anonymous@cpe-142-11-82-156.socal.rr.com) (Quit: JonathanNeal)
# [21:17] * Quits: eighty4 (~eighty4@unaffiliated/eighty4) (Excess Flood)
# [21:20] * Joins: eighty4 (~eighty4@unaffiliated/eighty4)
# [21:32] <TabAtkins> I know SVG was approved over standing FOs. Wasn't there a big XML spec that got similar treatment? Any others?
# [21:33] * abstractj is now known as abstractj|away
# [21:34] <Hixie> http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1155235213&count=1
# [21:34] <Hixie> (it wasn't just standing FOs)
# [21:34] <Hixie> dunno about xml though
# [21:34] <Hixie> many specs went from LC to PR without a real CR, though
# [21:35] * Joins: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron)
# [21:35] <Hixie> technically though the process document does let you not bother with CR if you don't feel like it
# [21:35] <Hixie> and you can ignore FOs if the director or his agents say you can
# [21:36] <TabAtkins> Right, the director can let you ignore anything. Just because a process violation is legal doesn't mean it's a good idea. ^_^
# [21:36] <Hixie> just because it's not a process violation doesn't mean it's a good idea either :-D
# [21:36] <shepazu> you can only skip CR if you have satisfied all the CR exit criteria already… seems like a good optimization to me
# [21:37] <Hixie> by "skip CR" i mean not bother proving interop
# [21:37] <shepazu> nope, process doesn't allow that
# [21:37] <Ms2ger> Hey, the web has proven interop
# [21:37] <Hixie> shepazu: then how did SVG ever get to REC?
# [21:38] <shepazu> Hixie: we have a stricter definition of interop now than we had back then
# [21:38] <shepazu> times change
# [21:38] <Hixie> yet the process hasn't hanged
# [21:38] <Hixie> changed
# [21:38] * Joins: jonlee_ (~jonlee@2620:149:4:1b01:553a:1292:4103:7529)
# [21:38] <Hixie> so either the process was being violated then, or it's still allowing the looser definition now
# [21:38] <shepazu> the process isn't law… it's guidelines, to be interpreted
# [21:38] <Hixie> clearly
# [21:39] <shepazu> yup, clearly
# [21:39] * Hixie shall "interpret" it to mean "stop bothering with the w3c"
# [21:39] <shepazu> your call :)
# [21:40] <shepazu> the rest of us will still act like a society and work together :P
# [21:40] <Ms2ger> Ha. Ha. Ha.
# [21:40] <shepazu> you should make one of those separatist petitions :)
# [21:40] <Ms2ger> You clearly aren't in webapps if you think that
# [21:41] <shepazu> Ms2ger: who says people in a society always get along?
# [21:41] <Hixie> shepazu: i did: http://whatwg.org/C
# [21:41] <Ms2ger> You said something about "work together"
# [21:41] <shepazu> Hixie: yup, you did a good job with that
# [21:41] <Krinkle> Ms2ger: There are tests? Interesting, can you tell me more / point me somewhere?
# [21:41] * Quits: jonlee (~jonlee@2620:149:4:1b01:295f:8dea:9eca:7f48) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [21:41] * jonlee_ is now known as jonlee
# [21:41] <Hixie> Ms2ger: syria is a "society" too
# [21:41] <shepazu> it really woke w3c up
# [21:42] <Ms2ger> shepazu, not for long
# [21:42] <Ms2ger> Krinkle, I don't know if there are good ones for traversal
# [21:42] <Krinkle> Ms2ger: What kind of tests?
# [21:42] <shepazu> Ms2ger: w3c is a much better, more open environment than when I first got involved… always room for growth, of course, even with WHATWG
# [21:43] <Hixie> more open, except that the flagship wg has two lists so private even the members don't see the archives
# [21:43] <Ms2ger> Krinkle, http://w3c-test.org/webapps/DOMCore/tests/ has some
# [21:44] * Quits: krawchyk_ (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [21:44] <shepazu> Hixie: I personally believe that 1) all w3c wgs should operate in the public and 2) the HTML WG is a mess (which you helped to create)
# [21:44] <Hixie> on that we can agree
# [21:44] <Krinkle> Ms2ger: Interesting, that's exactly what I was looking for.
# [21:46] <Krinkle> Ms2ger: I'm currently writing QUnit tests for my project, I'll let you know when I'm ready.
# [21:46] <Krinkle> Ms2ger: What I have so far is very similar to view-source:http://w3c-test.org/webapps/DOMCore/tests/submissions/Ms2ger/Document-createTreeWalker.html
# [21:46] <Krinkle> and qunit's syntax is similar to what you're using there
# [21:47] <Ms2ger> You're always welcome to use testharness.js and submit your tests :)
# [21:48] <Krinkle> Ms2ger: Are they also on github?
# [21:48] <Krinkle> (the tests)
# [21:49] <Ms2ger> Doesn't look like it
# [21:49] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, why not? :)
# [21:49] <Krinkle> I can't figure from http://w3c-test.org/ where it is stored
# [21:49] <Krinkle> Ah, http://w3c-test.org/webapps/README
# [21:49] <Krinkle> Right, github is the mirror.
# [21:49] <Ms2ger> Sorry, http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webapps
# [21:50] <Krinkle> How do you take submissions? pull requests via github and submitted internally by those with commit access to hg? Or some other process?
# [21:51] <Krinkle> oh, lol, you created those tests just a few hours ago
# [21:51] * Quits: tomasf (~tom@c-44dbe555.024-204-6c6b7012.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: tomasf)
# [21:51] <Ms2ger> This one, yes, because I was looking at your bug :)
# [21:52] <Krinkle> webkit has -1 for SHOW_ALL, strange.
# [21:52] <Krinkle> effectively the same as 0xFFFFFFFF in bitmasks ? Not sure.
# [21:52] <Ms2ger> Yeah
# [21:53] <Krinkle> bitmasks always confuse me, I've been putting it off for a long time. I want to understand them, but usuaully avoid them.
# [21:53] <Krinkle> my js implementation of tree walker took about 2 hours, but the bit mask bit of acceptNode was like an hour of that.
# [21:53] <Ms2ger> The bitmask arguments are 'unsigned long', which wraps modulo 2^32
# [21:53] <Krinkle> That makes sense.
# [21:54] * Joins: JonathanNeal (~anonymous@cpe-142-11-82-156.socal.rr.com)
# [22:01] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@c-67-180-8-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: sicking)
# [22:02] <Krinkle> Ms2ger: btw, whatToShow defaulting to SHOW_ALL, currently the spec doesn't say (and anything else is casted to 0)
# [22:02] <Ms2ger> It does in the IDL block
# [22:02] <Ms2ger> TreeWalker createTreeWalker(Node root, optional unsigned long whatToShow = 0xFFFFFFFF, optional NodeFilter? filter = null);
# [22:03] <Krinkle> Ah, in createTreeWalker, not in TreeWalker itself
# [22:03] <Krinkle> Okay
# [22:03] <Ms2ger> Right
# [22:03] <Krinkle> I didn't look in interface Document yet
# [22:03] <Krinkle> thanks
# [22:03] <Ms2ger> Np
# [22:04] * Quits: jonlee (~jonlee@2620:149:4:1b01:553a:1292:4103:7529) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [22:06] <jgraham> Ms2ger, darobin: you guys are awesome
# [22:06] * linclark|afk is now known as linclark
# [22:07] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.105.137)
# [22:07] <jgraham> In much the same way that QUnit isn't
# [22:07] <Ms2ger> Heh
# [22:08] * Joins: PenmanRoss (2ed0193d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.208.25.61)
# [22:08] <jgraham> (fun story that I probably told before: we run all the jQuery tests in Opera. On the 31st of every month a whole bunch of date tests fail because apparently the person who wrote them didn't really understand how months worked)
# [22:09] <jgraham> (not QUnit's fault of course, but a good way of knowing when it's the end of a 31-day month)
# [22:09] <jgraham> (if you work for Opera)
# [22:10] <jgraham> (although maybe we his those results by now)
# [22:10] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.104.249)
# [22:10] <Ms2ger> I would've assumed someone would have sent jquery a patch by now
# [22:11] * Quits: malydok (~marek@156.17.232.82) (Quit: Farewell)
# [22:15] * Quits: PenmanRoss (2ed0193d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.208.25.61) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [22:15] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~anonymous@cpe-142-11-82-156.socal.rr.com) (Quit: JonathanNeal)
# [22:16] * Joins: PenmanRoss (2ed0193d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.208.25.61)
# [22:21] * Joins: JonathanNeal (~anonymous@cpe-142-11-82-156.socal.rr.com)
# [22:22] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@host86-147-28-45.range86-147.btcentralplus.com)
# [22:23] <Krinkle> Ms2ger: jQuery core? Or a jQuery plugin
# [22:23] <Krinkle> Not sure how dates are relevant to jQuery
# [22:23] * Krinkle is a jQuery member.
# [22:23] <Ms2ger> 301 jgraham
# [22:24] * Quits: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [22:26] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~anonymous@cpe-142-11-82-156.socal.rr.com) (Client Quit)
# [22:32] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@c-67-180-8-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [22:33] * Joins: Bass10 (Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
# [22:35] <jgraham> Well it might be an old version
# [22:35] <jgraham> I don't remember
# [22:36] <jgraham> We went through a phase of importing every version of major libraries' testsuites since the old version is still found in the wild after the new release
# [22:36] <jgraham> Which is sometimes a major problem (c.f. TinyMCE)
# [22:37] <Ms2ger> True
# [22:39] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@109.133.25.170) (Quit: nn)
# [22:42] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@188.24.81.60)
# [22:42] * Quits: alrra (~alrra@188.24.81.60) (Changing host)
# [22:42] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra)
# [22:45] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@HSI-KBW-085-216-106-010.hsi.kabelbw.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [22:51] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.19.229.getinternet.no)
# [22:54] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.104.249) (Quit: othermaciej)
# [22:55] * Quits: Stevef (~chatzilla@cpc20-nmal18-2-0-cust76.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [22:55] * Quits: PenmanRoss (2ed0193d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.208.25.61) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [22:57] * Quits: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide1.rockfin.com) (Quit: yodasw16)
# [22:57] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.104.249)
# [22:59] * Quits: gavinc (~gavin@50.0.77.3) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
# [23:00] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.105.137) (Quit: weinig)
# [23:00] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.104.249) (Client Quit)
# [23:02] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [23:04] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-5d84f449.pool.mediaWays.net)
# [23:04] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.105.137)
# [23:05] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi)
# [23:06] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@64.206.121.41)
# [23:07] * Joins: danzik171 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106)
# [23:07] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [23:08] * Joins: isherman-book (Adium@nat/google/x-rwiarzyxgaisgqcj)
# [23:08] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.104.249)
# [23:09] * Joins: JonathanNeal (~anonymous@cpe-142-11-82-156.socal.rr.com)
# [23:10] * Quits: danzik17 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [23:13] * Quits: yorick (~quassel@unaffiliated/yorick) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [23:13] * Quits: ^esc (~esc_ape@178.115.248.48.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [23:13] * Quits: Maurice` (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
# [23:14] * Quits: garciawebdev (~garciaweb@190.244.95.154) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [23:15] * Joins: ^esc (~esc_ape@178.115.248.48.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
# [23:16] * Joins: isherman-book1 (Adium@nat/google/x-vesolzbwhsvmpcze)
# [23:18] * Quits: danzik171 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [23:18] * Quits: isherman-book (Adium@nat/google/x-rwiarzyxgaisgqcj) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [23:20] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.105.137) (Quit: weinig)
# [23:20] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
# [23:21] * Quits: Areks_home (~Areks@95-26-27-162.broadband.corbina.ru) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
# [23:21] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
# [23:22] <jsbell> odinho: ping?
# [23:22] <jsbell> sicking: ping?
# [23:22] <sicking> jsbell: pong
# [23:23] <jsbell> sicking: IndexedDB question: would you expect a blocked event to fire against a deleteDatabase's request if deleteDatabase() was called during a "versionchange" transaction (i.e. while another connection was opening) ?
# [23:23] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.19.229.getinternet.no) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
# [23:24] <sicking> jsbell: yes
# [23:24] <jsbell> IE10 fires blocked. FF17/19 doesn't fire blocked.
# [23:24] <jsbell> Cool. I would as well, just checking.
# [23:24] * Joins: danzik17 (~danzik17@ool-45787007.dyn.optonline.net)
# [23:24] <sicking> jsbell: i'll file a FF bug, thanks for finding this
# [23:24] <jsbell> No problem. Chrome doesn't but I'm fixing that.
# [23:25] <sicking> jsbell: by the way, latest released version(s) of chrome uses the new version API, right?
# [23:26] <sicking> someone poked me about it on twitter
# [23:27] <jsbell> sicking: yes. 23 (stable) has it with some caveats around open w/o an explicit version (we fall into a back-compat path); 24 (beta) should be conformant
# [23:27] * Quits: fr0zenice (~frozenice@unaffiliated/fr0zenice) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [23:27] <sicking> jsbell: awesome
# [23:27] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi)
# [23:28] <jsbell> sicking: no kidding, sooooo much cleaner now
# [23:28] <sicking> jsbell: by the way, we're using IDB heavily in B2G. It's the backend for our SMS, settings and address book databases. And several of the built-in apps use it too
# [23:28] <sicking> B2G == Firefox OS
# [23:29] <jsbell> cool.
# [23:29] <jsbell> sicking: your impl is still on top of SQLite, right?
# [23:29] <sicking> yeah, it likely won't change very soon. Too many other things are higher priority
# [23:30] <sicking> might become a priority if someone can show that leveldb would give us significantly better performance
# [23:30] <sicking> i think it would be faster, just a question of how much
# [23:30] <jsbell> Heh. I was running performance comparisons and FF17 / Chrome25 / IE10 are all pretty close.
# [23:30] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~anonymous@cpe-142-11-82-156.socal.rr.com) (Quit: JonathanNeal)
# [23:30] <sicking> and apparently there are some nice things coming in sqlite4
# [23:30] <sicking> jsbell: oh, cool
# [23:31] <sicking> jsbell: oh, and we're going to support IDB for both temporary and permanent storage. Like you guys' filesystem stuff
# [23:31] <jsbell> Nice. We still need to tackle Blobs in IDB.
# [23:32] <jsbell> (speaking of using it for filesystem-like things...)
# [23:32] <sicking> jsbell: we just landed the backend to support it. Next is adding the ability to control if from pages: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=785884#c3
# [23:32] <sicking> yeah, looking forward to you guys supporting that :)
# [23:33] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-86.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
# [23:33] <jsbell> .. and we'd discussed similar things around having open take a dict, for scoped storage, but haven't had to wire it up yet. I'll bookmark that.
# [23:34] <sicking> "scoped storage"?
# [23:34] <sicking> like session storage?
# [23:34] <jsbell> temporary vs. permanent etc.
# [23:34] <sicking> ah
# [23:34] <sicking> yeah
# [23:39] * Quits: svl (~me@pD9E56D25.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
# [23:39] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@101.170.133.32)
# [23:42] * Joins: mkanat (mkanat@nat/google/x-uaitsdkbjeqafoqi)
# [23:42] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.105.137)
# [23:46] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [23:47] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-72-94-180-24.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
# [23:52] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.105.137) (Quit: weinig)
# [23:52] * Quits: isherman-book1 (Adium@nat/google/x-vesolzbwhsvmpcze) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [23:52] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.104.249) (Quit: othermaciej)
# [23:52] * Quits: danzik17 (~danzik17@ool-45787007.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [23:54] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.104.249)
# [23:54] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.105.137)
# [23:56] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
# [23:57] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.104.249) (Client Quit)
# [23:59] * Quits: zdobersek (~zdobersek@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
# Session Close: Thu Dec 20 00:00:00 2012

The end :)