/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-01-02 / end

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  157. # Session Close: Wed Jan 02 15:04:21 2013
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  160. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  164. # [15:05] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ & http://logbot.glob.com.au/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  165. # [15:05] * Set by smaug____!~chatzilla@GGZYYCCCXVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi on Wed Mar 21 17:14:24
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  176. # [15:49] <annevk> I feel like Björn wrote that www-archive message for me...
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  200. # [16:50] * beverloo is now known as pbarth
  201. # [16:51] <annevk> pbarth: did you merry Adam?
  202. # [16:51] <annevk> marry, doh
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  226. # [18:11] <annevk> heycam|away: yt?
  227. # [18:12] <annevk> heycam|away: can you default to a string literal in IDL?
  228. # [18:15] <annevk> http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/WebIDL/#prod-DefaultValue says yes
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  294. # [20:55] <jsbell> [1000, -1, -2, Infinity, -Infinity, NaN].forEach(function(x) { try { document.createElement('select').options.add(document.createElement('option'), x); } catch (e) { console.log(x + ": " + e); } })
  295. # [20:56] <jsbell> FF17 throws on +/-Infinity. Chrome 23/Safari 6/IE10 throw on -2, +/-Infinity and NaN
  296. # [20:58] <jsbell> Based on the HTML + WebIDL specs I wouldn't expect any of them to throw. :P
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  302. # [21:08] <jwalden> optional (HTMLElement or long)? before = null
  303. # [21:09] <jwalden> I don't remember stuff fully to be confident, but I think that takes either an element, or any value (which will then be coerced to long)
  304. # [21:09] <jwalden> so, yeah, not throwing at all I *think* might be spec-right
  305. # [21:09] * jwalden doesn't remember the option interface well enough to know what of these options is at all sane
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  309. # [21:23] <jsbell> jwalden: I noticed this futzing with the ES number-> IDL long conversion code.
  310. # [21:23] <jwalden> unsurprising :-)
  311. # [21:24] <jsbell> Could toss an [EnforceRange] in the spec's IDL to get throwing behavior on non-finites, but dunno why FF distinguishes NaN, and throwing on < -1 would require prose anyway.
  312. # [21:24] <jwalden> another fun thing to test is { valueOf: function() { return "bazinga"; } }
  313. # [21:24] <jwalden> er, s/return/throw/
  314. # [21:25] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  315. # [21:26] <jsbell> I haven't tried, but I bet incrementing a counter in valueOf would give inconsistent results as well.
  316. # [21:26] <jwalden> undoubtedly :-)
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  319. # [21:34] * jwalden_ is now known as jwalden
  320. # [21:34] * jwalden tries reading Gecko variant code to figure out what causes that behavior, spends too much time following twisty passages, gives up
  321. # [21:35] <jwalden> we'll adhere to webidl requirements in semi-short order, I expect
  322. # [21:35] * jwalden doesn't know the timeline for this particular bit of code being converted, tho
  323. # [21:45] <annevk> jsbell: are you sure long accepts NaN?
  324. # [21:45] <annevk> jsbell: that seems kinda unlikely
  325. # [21:47] <annevk> jsbell: don't mind me, I'm wrong :/
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  327. # [21:49] <annevk> jwalden: btw, Ms2ger explained why that algorithm was correct after all
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  329. # [21:49] <annevk> jwalden: the global named properties are on some prototype object
  330. # [21:50] * jwalden would have thought long == Int32, and ECMAScript conversions would use the ToInt32 operator
  331. # [21:50] <annevk> jwalden: so using the [[GetOwnProperty]] would get there eventually
  332. # [21:50] <annevk> jwalden: yeah that's correct
  333. # [21:50] <jwalden> if that's not the case, that's mildly surprising
  334. # [21:51] <jwalden> in which case NaN would become 0 for your test, jsbell
  335. # [21:51] <annevk> it's ToInt32(ToNumber(V))
  336. # [21:51] <jwalden> ToNumber(NaN) => NaN, ToInt32(NaN) => 0
  337. # [21:51] <annevk> http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/WebIDL/#es-long (with some exceptions for extended attributes)
  338. # [21:51] <jwalden> for better or worse
  339. # [21:52] <annevk> but Infinity also becomes 0
  340. # [21:52] <annevk> and Gecko throws for that...
  341. # [21:52] <jwalden> Gecko
  342. # [21:52] <jwalden> er
  343. # [21:52] <jwalden> Gecko's not using webidlish code right now, so all bets are off as to what it does :-)
  344. # [21:52] <jwalden> at least, not for that particular interface/method/argument
  345. # [21:52] <annevk> fair enough
  346. # [21:53] * jwalden will be glad when non-webidl stuff is all dead
  347. # [21:54] <annevk> yeah, then we can start fighting Web IDL
  348. # [21:54] <annevk> or something like that :)
  349. # [21:55] <jwalden> I shouldn't be, but I'm continually amazed by how much of Gecko semantics is just "that's what the random internal method that happened to be used, did"
  350. # [21:56] <annevk> it seems kinda natural for any system that grows big, to have a lot of inconsistencies
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  352. # [21:56] <annevk> you get that even when there's one person developing the system for an extended period of time
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  354. # [21:58] <jwalden> I dunno, I find algorithms are just that much worse to read, usually, if they're not isomorphic to the spec steps
  355. # [21:59] <jwalden> which naturally leads me into writing helper methods like ToUint32 or whatever, where at least if they're wrong it's just a matter of changing guts
  356. # [21:59] <jwalden> rather than having to change a hundred places all converting in different ways
  357. # [21:59] <jwalden> meh, doesn't really matter at this point
  358. # [21:59] <annevk> well that certainly makes sense :)
  359. # [22:00] <annevk> I meant more what came before the standard and to some extent the standards we're developing now; that they all have their inconsistencies
  360. # [22:00] <jwalden> true enough
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  368. # [22:21] <jsbell> jwalden: re: "what the random internal method... did" - and the resulting specs are such fun to implement, because you know that in some code base, somewhere, there's some trivial and probably very efficient implementation of what seems like an insanely baroque algorithm.
  369. # [22:22] <jwalden> in my experience, usually the internal method is also insanely baroque and inefficient :-)
  370. # [22:23] <jwalden> with special cases nobody's seriously thought through because some random page needed something
  371. # [22:23] <jsbell> Sure, kill my sense of hope... ;-)
  372. # [22:23] <jwalden> even redundant special cases
  373. # [22:23] <jwalden> heh
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  379. # [22:29] <annevk> jsbell: not sure what specs you're reading, but I usually aim to simplify what the implementations did
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  386. # [22:38] <Hixie> i have no idea what that mail on www-archive means
  387. # [22:39] <Ms2ger> Hixie, "encodings suck"
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  389. # [22:43] <annevk> It's about BOM taking precedence over the encoding declaration and supposedly whether X-Content-Type-Options should influence that or not... And whether it's a good idea to begin with. Overall I took it as subtle critique of the Encoding Standard :-)
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  391. # [22:56] <Hixie> sounds complicated
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  409. # [23:40] <jsbell> Hixie: Saw "An error occurred submitting your review comment" from the HTML spec. Maybe I typed too much, maybe there's a back-end issue.
  410. # [23:41] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@111.251-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Quit: nn)
  411. # [23:41] <Hixie> looking...
  412. # [23:41] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.102.9.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  413. # [23:41] <Hixie> (did you save your comment text, perchance?)
  414. # [23:42] <jsbell> Hixie: it does not appear to have been cleared from the input field, so yes
  415. # [23:42] <Hixie> i got back a "Text Too Long" from bugzilla
  416. # [23:42] <Hixie> thought i worked around that though
  417. # [23:43] <Hixie> ah, i see
  418. # [23:43] <Hixie> let me fix this...
  419. # [23:44] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  420. # [23:46] <Hixie> jsbell: do you still have it up?
  421. # [23:46] <Hixie> jsbell: if so, try submitting again
  422. # [23:47] <jsbell> submittifying...
  423. # [23:47] <jsbell> success!
  424. # [23:47] <Hixie> sweet
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  426. # [23:49] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  427. # [23:49] <Hixie> i really don't understand where these people are coming from who type in random things in that form
  428. # [23:49] <Hixie> got one just now that's just an address
  429. # [23:49] <Hixie> why would you do that?
  430. # [23:50] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  431. # [23:51] * Quits: reinaldob (~reinaldob@201.74.207.56) (Remote host closed the connection)
  432. # [23:52] <annevk> a bot reverse engineering the rules?
  433. # [23:52] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  434. # [23:52] <Hixie> doesn't look like it
  435. # [23:52] <Hixie> every one i've seen, they visit a few pages, then send a wacked comment
  436. # [23:54] <Hixie> maybe they're trying to do a search?
  437. # [23:54] <Hixie> and that's just what's got focus?
  438. # [23:54] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-143-149-170.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)
  439. # Session Close: Thu Jan 03 00:00:00 2013

The end :)