/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-01-03 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Thu Jan 03 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-143-149-170.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) (Quit: sedovsek)
  4. # [00:01] * Joins: darfia (~darfia@201.53.226.131)
  5. # [00:01] * Joins: ginger1 (~Adium@2401:fa00::7424:2296:d06c:1ae0)
  6. # [00:01] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net) (Quit: sicking)
  7. # [00:02] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net)
  8. # [00:05] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
  9. # [00:06] * Quits: darfia (~darfia@201.53.226.131) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  10. # [00:19] * Quits: eighty4 (~eighty4@unaffiliated/eighty4) (Excess Flood)
  11. # [00:23] * Joins: eighty4 (~eighty4@unaffiliated/eighty4)
  12. # [00:33] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
  13. # [00:35] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13)
  14. # [00:35] * Quits: OnlyMax (~OnlyMax@187-126-38-241.user.veloxzone.com.br) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  15. # [00:35] * Quits: yoav (~yoav@sdo26-1-78-245-148-181.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  16. # [00:36] * Joins: darfia (~darfia@201.53.226.131)
  17. # [00:41] * Quits: darfia (~darfia@201.53.226.131) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  18. # [00:41] * Joins: danzik171 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106)
  19. # [00:44] * Quits: danzik17 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  20. # [00:46] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-173-76-135-79.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
  21. # [00:47] * Quits: danzik171 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  22. # [00:51] * Quits: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: The computer fell asleep)
  23. # [00:51] * Joins: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  24. # [00:51] * Joins: danzik17 (~danzik17@ool-45787007.dyn.optonline.net)
  25. # [00:56] * Quits: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  26. # [00:57] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  27. # [01:01] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13)
  28. # [01:06] * Quits: yorick (~yorick@oftn/member/yorick) (Remote host closed the connection)
  29. # [01:06] * Joins: smaug (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi)
  30. # [01:08] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net) (Quit: sicking)
  31. # [01:08] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  32. # [01:08] * smaug is now known as smaug____
  33. # [01:14] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98) (Remote host closed the connection)
  34. # [01:20] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@h-66-166-3-76.lsanca54.static.covad.net)
  35. # [01:21] * Quits: ginger1 (~Adium@2401:fa00::7424:2296:d06c:1ae0) (Quit: Leaving.)
  36. # [01:26] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net)
  37. # [01:27] * Quits: say2joe (~say2joe@204.56.108.2) (Quit: Leaving.)
  38. # [01:27] * Joins: say2joe (~say2joe@204.56.108.2)
  39. # [01:27] * Joins: ginger1 (~Adium@2401:fa00::1dab:79fe:ed2b:fa07)
  40. # [01:32] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-173-76-135-79.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
  41. # [01:39] * Quits: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
  42. # [01:42] * Quits: jsoncorwin (~textual@c-50-131-117-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  43. # [01:43] * Joins: yoav (~yoav@sdo26-1-78-245-148-181.fbx.proxad.net)
  44. # [01:44] * Joins: jsoncorwin (~textual@c-50-131-117-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  45. # [01:45] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-61-90-48-128.revip.asianet.co.th)
  46. # [01:53] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@h-66-166-3-76.lsanca54.static.covad.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  47. # [01:53] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@h-66-166-3-76.lsanca54.static.covad.net)
  48. # [01:59] * Quits: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:99f7:2eab:1e85:2862) (Quit: ap)
  49. # [02:00] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  50. # [02:02] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  51. # [02:06] * Joins: carbonix (~vcarbune@79.119.87.22)
  52. # [02:13] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-72-94-180-24.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  53. # [02:14] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@70.102.199.158) (Remote host closed the connection)
  54. # [02:15] * Quits: jonlee (~jonlee@2620:149:4:1b01:7480:422b:27d4:73ae) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  55. # [02:18] * Quits: danzik17 (~danzik17@ool-45787007.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  56. # [02:21] * Quits: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-rezsenjicezjbwyx) (Quit: There's no place like home...)
  57. # [02:21] * Quits: carbonix (~vcarbune@79.119.87.22) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  58. # [02:23] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  59. # [02:23] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  60. # [02:26] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13)
  61. # [02:27] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13) (Client Quit)
  62. # [02:30] * Joins: darfia (~darfia@201.53.226.131)
  63. # [02:36] * Joins: jonlee (~jonlee@67.218.103.247)
  64. # [02:37] * Quits: Zauberfisch (~Zauberfis@2a01:4f8:100:73c3::3) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  65. # [02:39] * Joins: shannonm_ (~shannonmo@pool-98-117-169-55.bflony.fios.verizon.net)
  66. # [02:39] * Joins: Zauberfisch (~Zauberfis@2a01:4f8:100:73c3::3)
  67. # [02:41] * Quits: ginger1 (~Adium@2401:fa00::1dab:79fe:ed2b:fa07) (Quit: Leaving.)
  68. # [02:42] * Quits: eresair (~eresair@173.247.199.2) (Remote host closed the connection)
  69. # [02:42] * Quits: darfia (~darfia@201.53.226.131) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  70. # [02:43] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174)
  71. # [02:43] * Quits: shannonmoeller (~shannonmo@nat.sierrabravo.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  72. # [02:43] * Joins: ginger1 (~Adium@2401:fa00::381e:cd1d:f91d:9cf6)
  73. # [02:51] * Quits: shannonm_ (~shannonmo@pool-98-117-169-55.bflony.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  74. # [02:53] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@70.131.103.149) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-5.1450hg.fc17 [XULRunner 17.0.1/20121129151931])
  75. # [02:58] * Joins: shannonmoeller (~shannonmo@pool-98-117-169-55.bflony.fios.verizon.net)
  76. # [02:58] * Joins: darfia (~darfia@201.53.226.131)
  77. # [02:59] * Quits: jonlee (~jonlee@67.218.103.247) (Quit: jonlee)
  78. # [02:59] * Quits: tomasf (~tom@c-44dbe555.024-204-6c6b7012.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: tomasf)
  79. # [03:01] * Joins: teleject (~christoph@cpe-68-201-93-192.stx.res.rr.com)
  80. # [03:04] * Quits: darfia (~darfia@201.53.226.131) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  81. # [03:05] * Quits: shannonmoeller (~shannonmo@pool-98-117-169-55.bflony.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  82. # [03:06] * Joins: shannonmoeller (~shannonmo@pool-98-117-169-55.bflony.fios.verizon.net)
  83. # [03:08] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  84. # [03:11] * Quits: shannonmoeller (~shannonmo@pool-98-117-169-55.bflony.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  85. # [03:12] * Joins: shannonmoeller (~shannonmo@pool-98-117-169-55.bflony.fios.verizon.net)
  86. # [03:13] * Quits: shannonmoeller (~shannonmo@pool-98-117-169-55.bflony.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  87. # [03:25] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@h-66-166-3-76.lsanca54.static.covad.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  88. # [03:28] * Parts: jbarth (~jamesr@216.239.55.192)
  89. # [03:31] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@h-66-166-3-76.lsanca54.static.covad.net)
  90. # [03:42] * Joins: darfia (~darfia@201.53.226.131)
  91. # [03:48] * Quits: darfia (~darfia@201.53.226.131) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  92. # [03:56] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@70.112.101.224)
  93. # [04:01] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  94. # [04:03] * Joins: danzik17 (~danzik17@ool-45787007.dyn.optonline.net)
  95. # [04:04] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  96. # [04:06] * Joins: jonlee (~jonlee@c-71-202-46-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  97. # [04:17] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  98. # [04:17] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  99. # [04:19] * Quits: ginger1 (~Adium@2401:fa00::381e:cd1d:f91d:9cf6) (Quit: Leaving.)
  100. # [04:27] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net) (Quit: sicking)
  101. # [04:30] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-72-94-180-24.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
  102. # [04:31] * Quits: jsoncorwin (~textual@c-50-131-117-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  103. # [04:35] * Joins: darfia (~darfia@201.53.226.131)
  104. # [04:41] * Joins: eresair (~eresair@c-24-5-78-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  105. # [04:43] * Joins: ginger (~Adium@2401:fa00::1488:151d:446f:c4e9)
  106. # [04:46] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@74.1.189.204)
  107. # [04:46] * Quits: nunnun (~hiro@2001:200:1c0:3625:20c:29ff:fe02:11d2) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  108. # [04:47] * Joins: nunnun (~hiro@2001:200:1c0:3625:20c:29ff:fe02:11d2)
  109. # [04:54] * Quits: eresair (~eresair@c-24-5-78-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  110. # [05:00] * Joins: JonathanNeal (~JonathanN@cpe-142-11-82-156.socal.rr.com)
  111. # [05:00] <JonathanNeal> hello
  112. # [05:01] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@74.1.189.204) (Quit: tantek)
  113. # [05:02] * Quits: say2joe (~say2joe@204.56.108.2) (Quit: Leaving.)
  114. # [05:04] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@h-66-166-3-76.lsanca54.static.covad.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  115. # [05:15] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@70.112.101.224) (Quit: Leaving...)
  116. # [05:15] * Quits: Druide_ (~Druid@ip-178-203-141-163.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  117. # [05:29] * Joins: say2joe (~say2joe@rrcs-74-62-252-210.west.biz.rr.com)
  118. # [05:32] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com)
  119. # [05:55] * Joins: divya (~Adium@c-67-169-39-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  120. # [06:05] * Joins: eresair (~eresair@c-24-5-78-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  121. # [06:14] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  122. # [06:15] * Quits: danzik17 (~danzik17@ool-45787007.dyn.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  123. # [06:15] * Joins: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
  124. # [06:20] * Quits: say2joe (~say2joe@rrcs-74-62-252-210.west.biz.rr.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  125. # [06:24] * Joins: jsoncorwin (~textual@c-98-210-130-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  126. # [06:28] * Joins: say2joe (~say2joe@rrcs-74-62-252-210.west.biz.rr.com)
  127. # [06:33] * Joins: rniwa_ (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  128. # [06:36] * Joins: aglehg (~aglehg@79.169.217.71)
  129. # [06:37] * Quits: aglehg (~aglehg@79.169.217.71) (Remote host closed the connection)
  130. # [06:37] * Joins: aglehg (~aglehg@a79-169-217-71.cpe.netcabo.pt)
  131. # [06:41] * Quits: say2joe (~say2joe@rrcs-74-62-252-210.west.biz.rr.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  132. # [06:48] * Quits: ginger (~Adium@2401:fa00::1488:151d:446f:c4e9) (Quit: Leaving.)
  133. # [06:53] * Joins: vikash (~vikashagr@unaffiliated/vikash)
  134. # [06:53] * Parts: vikash (~vikashagr@unaffiliated/vikash)
  135. # [06:55] * Joins: isherman-book (~Adium@99-62-242-106.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
  136. # [07:16] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  137. # [07:19] * Quits: isherman-book (~Adium@99-62-242-106.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  138. # [07:20] * Joins: izhak (~izhak@31.47.116.209)
  139. # [07:21] * Joins: drollwit (~drollwit@c-67-183-156-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  140. # [07:22] * Quits: izhak (~izhak@31.47.116.209) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  141. # [07:30] * Quits: niloy (~niloy@203.196.177.156) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  142. # [07:43] * Joins: niloy (~niloy@61.12.96.242)
  143. # [07:44] * Quits: drollwit (~drollwit@c-67-183-156-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  144. # [07:45] * Joins: drollwit (~drollwit@c-67-183-156-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  145. # [07:49] * Quits: JohnAlbin_zzzzzz (~JohnAlbin@111-250-150-214.dynamic.hinet.net) (Quit: HTTP/1.1 404 JohnAlbin Not Found)
  146. # [07:51] * Joins: maikmerten (~merten@ls5dhcp200.cs.uni-dortmund.de)
  147. # [07:52] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-72-94-180-24.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  148. # [07:53] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
  149. # [07:56] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-72-94-180-24.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
  150. # [08:04] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.196.239)
  151. # [08:06] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-72-94-180-24.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  152. # [08:06] * Quits: eresair (~eresair@c-24-5-78-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  153. # [08:11] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  154. # [08:19] * Joins: [[zzz]] (~q@node-kpr.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net)
  155. # [08:20] * Joins: Ducki (~Ducki@pD9E39DBD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  156. # [08:22] * Quits: [[zz]] (~q@node-nsn.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  157. # [08:40] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.19.229.getinternet.no) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  158. # [08:49] * Quits: rniwa_ (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  159. # [08:50] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  160. # [08:50] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  161. # [08:52] * Joins: rniwa_ (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  162. # [08:54] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@ip-166.net-89-2-153.rev.numericable.fr)
  163. # [09:01] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@87.64.251.111)
  164. # [09:05] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238)
  165. # [09:10] * Joins: gavin_ (~gavin@76.14.87.162)
  166. # [09:10] * Quits: gavin_ (~gavin@76.14.87.162) (Client Quit)
  167. # [09:11] * Joins: gavin_ (~gavin@76.14.87.162)
  168. # [09:16] * Quits: rniwa_ (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: rniwa_)
  169. # [09:20] * Joins: izhak (~izhak@31.47.116.209)
  170. # [09:24] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-86.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  171. # [09:24] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~JonathanN@cpe-142-11-82-156.socal.rr.com) (Quit: JonathanNeal)
  172. # [09:26] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@office.oslo.opera.com)
  173. # [09:31] * Quits: jonlee (~jonlee@c-71-202-46-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: jonlee)
  174. # [09:38] <tantek> thanks MikeSmith for the #microformats edit - I've been unsure about the rel-publisher value since I saw it show up.
  175. # [09:44] <MikeSmith> tantek: somebody asked about it on the www-validator list (asked why the validator doesn't support it despite it being on the wiki page)
  176. # [09:45] * Joins: henrikkok (~henrikkok@81.27.221.193)
  177. # [09:48] * Joins: yod (~ot@cpc4-dals17-2-0-cust120.hari.cable.virginmedia.com)
  178. # [09:49] * [[zzz]] is now known as [[zz]]
  179. # [09:50] * Joins: zdobersek (~zdobersek@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si)
  180. # [09:53] * abstractj|away is now known as abstractj
  181. # [10:01] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
  182. # [10:02] * Joins: carbonix (~vcarbune@79.119.87.22)
  183. # [10:02] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  184. # [10:06] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  185. # [10:12] * Joins: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com)
  186. # [10:20] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238) (Quit: sedovsek)
  187. # [10:21] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238)
  188. # [10:23] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@ip-166.net-89-2-153.rev.numericable.fr) (Quit: Leaving.)
  189. # [10:30] * Quits: divya (~Adium@c-67-169-39-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  190. # [10:32] * Quits: nonge_ (~nonge@p5082A26B.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  191. # [10:44] * Quits: darfia (~darfia@201.53.226.131) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  192. # [10:48] * Quits: gavin_ (~gavin@76.14.87.162) (Remote host closed the connection)
  193. # [10:48] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@office.oslo.opera.com) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  194. # [10:49] * Joins: pyrsmk (~pyrsmk@132.168.139.88.rev.sfr.net)
  195. # [10:50] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@pat-tazdevil.opera.com)
  196. # [10:51] * Joins: gavin_ (~gavin@76.14.87.162)
  197. # [10:56] * Joins: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it)
  198. # [10:58] * Quits: pyrsmk (~pyrsmk@132.168.139.88.rev.sfr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  199. # [11:00] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@vev69-1-82-232-219-95.fbx.proxad.net)
  200. # [11:01] * Quits: tobie (u5692@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tkjszucqhozkcwss) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  201. # [11:07] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-61-90-48-128.revip.asianet.co.th) (Quit: จรลี จรลา)
  202. # [11:08] * Quits: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  203. # [11:17] * Quits: carbonix (~vcarbune@79.119.87.22) (Remote host closed the connection)
  204. # [11:22] * Quits: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  205. # [11:23] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi)
  206. # [11:30] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-86.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  207. # [11:42] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  208. # [11:54] * Quits: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it) (Quit: Leaving)
  209. # [11:54] * Joins: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com)
  210. # [11:55] * pbarth is now known as beverloo
  211. # [12:04] * Joins: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it)
  212. # [12:06] * Joins: Druide_ (~Druid@ip-178-203-141-163.unitymediagroup.de)
  213. # [12:07] * Joins: nonge (~nonge@p50829C41.dip.t-dialin.net)
  214. # [12:12] * Quits: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  215. # [12:15] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  216. # [12:16] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl)
  217. # [12:18] * Quits: izhak (~izhak@31.47.116.209) (Remote host closed the connection)
  218. # [12:19] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
  219. # [12:20] * Joins: reinaldob (~reinaldob@201.74.207.56)
  220. # [12:20] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  221. # [12:23] * Joins: hdhoang (~hdhoang@113.190.37.242)
  222. # [12:23] * Joins: izhak (~izhak@31.47.116.209)
  223. # [12:24] * Joins: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron)
  224. # [12:25] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238) (Quit: sedovsek)
  225. # [12:25] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@84.241.204.85)
  226. # [12:29] * Quits: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  227. # [12:32] * Joins: tomasf (~tom@c-44dbe555.024-204-6c6b7012.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  228. # [12:37] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com)
  229. # [12:38] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com) (Client Quit)
  230. # [12:39] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@84.241.204.85) (Remote host closed the connection)
  231. # [12:43] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
  232. # [12:45] * Quits: eighty4 (~eighty4@unaffiliated/eighty4) (Excess Flood)
  233. # [12:45] * Joins: darfia (~darfia@187.106.61.146)
  234. # [12:46] * Quits: darfia (~darfia@187.106.61.146) (Remote host closed the connection)
  235. # [12:47] * Joins: eighty4 (~eighty4@unaffiliated/eighty4)
  236. # [12:50] * Joins: darfia (~darfia@187.106.61.146)
  237. # [12:51] * Quits: izhak (~izhak@31.47.116.209) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  238. # [12:51] * Joins: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it)
  239. # [12:52] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@212.238.236.229)
  240. # [12:53] <annevk> oh, seems some of the IETF found the URL Standard again
  241. # [12:53] <annevk> too bad their comments are not really actionable
  242. # [12:54] * Joins: izhak (~izhak@31.47.116.209)
  243. # [13:05] <odinho> What are they saying?
  244. # [13:07] <annevk> https://twitter.com/bagder/status/286544650284699648
  245. # [13:09] * Quits: izhak (~izhak@31.47.116.209) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  246. # [13:10] <annevk> I like this one too https://twitter.com/dret/status/286625563496574977
  247. # [13:10] <annevk> Especially combined with the fact that their hero Roy has been stating that URI == URL for some time now...
  248. # [13:11] <annevk> Anyway, back to creating more states for more sensible error reporting...
  249. # [13:15] * Joins: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@111-250-146-152.dynamic.hinet.net)
  250. # [13:24] * Quits: yod (~ot@cpc4-dals17-2-0-cust120.hari.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  251. # [13:40] * Quits: niloy (~niloy@61.12.96.242) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  252. # [13:41] <annevk> If you resolve http:example.org against http://example/ should that give a parse error?
  253. # [13:43] <annevk> I'm going with yes...
  254. # [13:45] * Joins: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com)
  255. # [13:49] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Remote host closed the connection)
  256. # [13:51] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238)
  257. # [13:52] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
  258. # [13:54] * Joins: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  259. # [13:54] * Quits: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Changing host)
  260. # [13:54] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  261. # [13:56] <odinho> Hehe. One thing they do say though, is that it would indeed be nice to have a non-normative overview over what's supported. You're doing lots of findings, and then encode them into this spec, but it's not quickly referencable. Although I fear that would be too big to use in the end anyway...
  262. # [13:57] <annevk> Given that it all changes over time I don't really see how that's useful. Although you could "generate" such a thing if we completed that test suite...
  263. # [13:57] <annevk> Sorry, I can see how it's useful, but also how it'd be time consuming :-)
  264. # [13:59] <odinho> Yeah.
  265. # [13:59] * Joins: niloy (~niloy@203.196.177.156)
  266. # [14:00] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  267. # [14:03] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Client Quit)
  268. # [14:12] * Quits: reinaldob (~reinaldob@201.74.207.56) (Remote host closed the connection)
  269. # [14:13] * Joins: shannonmoeller (~shannonmo@pool-98-117-169-55.bflony.fios.verizon.net)
  270. # [14:13] * Joins: yorick (~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl)
  271. # [14:13] * Quits: yorick (~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl) (Changing host)
  272. # [14:13] * Joins: yorick (~yorick@oftn/member/yorick)
  273. # [14:16] * Joins: danbri_ (~danbri@146.255.148.108)
  274. # [14:17] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.196.239) (Quit: Leaving...)
  275. # [14:21] * Quits: hdhoang (~hdhoang@113.190.37.242) (Quit: Leaving.)
  276. # [14:27] * Quits: shannonmoeller (~shannonmo@pool-98-117-169-55.bflony.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  277. # [14:28] * Joins: shannonmoeller (~shannonmo@nat.sierrabravo.net)
  278. # [14:42] * Joins: Robbert_ (~robbert@2001:980:9368:1:ac25:2634:c8dc:7ae5)
  279. # [14:45] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Remote host closed the connection)
  280. # [14:50] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  281. # [14:51] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.196.239)
  282. # [14:54] * abstractj is now known as abstractj|brb
  283. # [14:55] * Joins: eminor (~eminor@p548CF25A.dip.t-dialin.net)
  284. # [14:56] * Quits: Zauberfisch (~Zauberfis@2a01:4f8:100:73c3::3) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  285. # [14:57] <SimonSapin> annevk: maybe diagrams like http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-syntax/#token-diagrams would help explaining the syntax of URLs?
  286. # [15:01] <annevk> SimonSapin: yeah, the plan is to add those at some point
  287. # [15:01] <annevk> SimonSapin: though the comments were about parsing
  288. # [15:03] * abstractj|brb is now known as abstractj
  289. # [15:05] * Joins: asante002 (~asanteohe@41.215.160.133)
  290. # [15:07] * Quits: henrikkok (~henrikkok@81.27.221.193) (Quit: Leaving.)
  291. # [15:08] * Joins: danzik17 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106)
  292. # [15:08] * Joins: Zauberfisch (~Zauberfis@2a01:4f8:100:73c3::3)
  293. # [15:08] * Joins: alabala (~immortal@unaffiliated/alabala)
  294. # [15:09] * Parts: asante002 (~asanteohe@41.215.160.133)
  295. # [15:10] * Joins: henrikkok (~henrikkok@81.27.221.193)
  296. # [15:10] * Joins: asante002 (~asanteohe@41.215.160.133)
  297. # [15:11] * Quits: henrikkok (~henrikkok@81.27.221.193) (Client Quit)
  298. # [15:12] * Parts: asante002 (~asanteohe@41.215.160.133)
  299. # [15:15] * abstractj is now known as abstractj|away
  300. # [15:21] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  301. # [15:26] * Joins: MacTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  302. # [15:32] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
  303. # [15:35] * Quits: eric_carlson_ (~eric@17.212.152.104) (Quit: eric_carlson_)
  304. # [15:37] * Joins: eric_carlson_ (~eric@17.212.152.104)
  305. # [15:39] <annevk> SimonSapin: those syntax diagrams seem incomplete btw
  306. # [15:39] <SimonSapin> annevk: how so?
  307. # [15:39] <annevk> SimonSapin: e.g. for url() you can also escape the u / r / l
  308. # [15:39] * Joins: reinaldob (~reinaldob@201.74.207.56)
  309. # [15:40] * Quits: eric_carlson (~ericc@c-67-188-56-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Disconnected by services)
  310. # [15:40] * eric_carlson_ is now known as eric_carlson
  311. # [15:40] <SimonSapin> indeed
  312. # [15:42] * Joins: yroc (~yroc@out-on-252.wireless.telus.com)
  313. # [15:42] * Quits: yroc (~yroc@out-on-252.wireless.telus.com) (Client Quit)
  314. # [15:45] <SimonSapin> annevk: or maybe not. http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/syndata.html#tokenization uses "url" litteraly in the token definition, not something like {u}{r}{l}
  315. # [15:45] <SimonSapin> Green in Firefox and Opera but Chromium: data:text/html,<style>@import \75rl("data:text/css,body{background:green}")
  316. # [15:51] <annevk> SimonSapin: yeah, the old specs are messy that way
  317. # [15:52] <Ms2ger> Sounds like something needs a test
  318. # [15:52] <annevk> SimonSapin: there was a problem of sorts with writing it as {u}{r}{l} if I remember correctly
  319. # [15:52] <SimonSapin> annevk: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-syntax/#data-state still does not allow escapes
  320. # [15:53] <annevk> SimonSapin: oh Tab forgot the hard part?
  321. # [15:54] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@82.181.151.161)
  322. # [15:54] <annevk> oh I see
  323. # [15:54] <annevk> hmm
  324. # [15:57] <SimonSapin> seemed deliberate to me last time I looked, but maybe
  325. # [15:58] <annevk> yeah, seems weird though to accept escapes everywhere but url()
  326. # [15:58] <annevk> well and @charset, but @charset is weird
  327. # [15:59] <Ms2ger> Ah, darobin is back?
  328. # [16:00] <SimonSapin> I don’t think this is really a problem in practice. Have you ever seen escapes used on CSS-defined keywords, other than in test cases?
  329. # [16:00] <SimonSapin> But yes, it should be clarified
  330. # [16:01] <annevk> well I'd prefer if we killed CSS escapes
  331. # [16:01] <annevk> especially for keywords/identifiers
  332. # [16:01] <annevk> but that seems unrealistic
  333. # [16:01] <darobin> Ms2ger: ayup
  334. # [16:02] <Ms2ger> darobin, go review some tests :)
  335. # [16:02] <darobin> thanks for the pull requests wrangling you did over the holidays
  336. # [16:02] <darobin> haha
  337. # [16:02] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@212.238.236.229) (Remote host closed the connection)
  338. # [16:02] <darobin> will do, but I'm still catching up on email
  339. # [16:02] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@212.238.236.229)
  340. # [16:02] <SimonSapin> annevk: probably unrealistic. But I usually pretend they’re not there. Just like I pretend that everything is case-sensitive ;)
  341. # [16:02] * Quits: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  342. # [16:02] * Quits: alabala (~immortal@unaffiliated/alabala) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  343. # [16:02] <Ms2ger> Good :)
  344. # [16:03] <Ms2ger> I've got some more pull requests to create, but branches hurt my head, so it'll be one at a time
  345. # [16:05] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@64.206.121.41)
  346. # [16:07] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@212.238.236.229) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  347. # [16:09] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.196.239) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  348. # [16:12] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com)
  349. # [16:17] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@84.241.203.161)
  350. # [16:18] <annevk> SimonSapin: if only we could go back in time and simplify some of this stuff
  351. # [16:18] <SimonSapin> annevk: @charset is case-sensitive too :)
  352. # [16:18] <annevk> SimonSapin: @charset is beautiful
  353. # [16:18] <annevk> SimonSapin: requires double quotes as well
  354. # [16:19] <annevk> SimonSapin: and a single space preceding the double quotes
  355. # [16:19] <SimonSapin> and a single space, no comment, no space before the ;
  356. # [16:19] * Joins: scor (~scor@partners-f812c7.mgh.harvard.edu)
  357. # [16:19] * Quits: scor (~scor@partners-f812c7.mgh.harvard.edu) (Changing host)
  358. # [16:19] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  359. # [16:19] <annevk> yeah, once you have to write out the details people suddenly realize they should keep it simple...
  360. # [16:19] <SimonSapin> well, if we go back in time let’s support UTF-8 only, @charset doesn’t even exist
  361. # [16:19] <annevk> fair point
  362. # [16:20] * Joins: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com)
  363. # [16:20] <annevk> and kill utf-16 before hsivonen et al get a chance to be upset by it
  364. # [16:20] <SimonSapin> hehe
  365. # [16:24] <annevk> how many days left in this TAG election thingie darobin?
  366. # [16:24] <darobin> 6
  367. # [16:24] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174) (Remote host closed the connection)
  368. # [16:24] <SimonSapin> wrote to www-style about escaping url()
  369. # [16:24] <annevk> so it's closed after Jan 9?
  370. # [16:24] <annevk> SimonSapin: might want to search the archives
  371. # [16:25] <annevk> SimonSapin: Bert and I went over it before...
  372. # [16:25] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174)
  373. # [16:26] <annevk> SimonSapin: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2007Dec/0215.html
  374. # [16:27] <annevk> SimonSapin: http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-23
  375. # [16:27] <annevk> SimonSapin: it was closed, but no idea how it was fixed (assumed editorial suggests they agreed with {u}{r}{l}...)
  376. # [16:28] <darobin> annevk: yes, correct
  377. # [16:29] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  378. # [16:31] * Quits: Ducki (~Ducki@pD9E39DBD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  379. # [16:33] <SimonSapin> annevk: http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110323/html4/uri-015.htm
  380. # [16:33] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@84.241.203.161) (Remote host closed the connection)
  381. # [16:37] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@pat-tazdevil.opera.com) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  382. # [16:45] * JohnAlbin is now known as ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
  383. # [16:46] * ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ is now known as JohnAlbin
  384. # [16:46] * JohnAlbin is now known as WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
  385. # [16:47] * WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW is now known as JohnAlbin
  386. # [16:49] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-72-94-180-24.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
  387. # [16:53] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98)
  388. # [16:56] * Quits: maikmerten (~merten@ls5dhcp200.cs.uni-dortmund.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  389. # [17:14] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl)
  390. # [17:16] <annevk> SimonSapin: the assert there is wrong
  391. # [17:16] <annevk> metadata fail #nobodyiscounting
  392. # [17:20] <annevk> SimonSapin: see also e.g. http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-CSS2-20101207/grammar.html#scanner
  393. # [17:21] <annevk> SimonSapin: stuff changed there, I forgot if there was an email explaining why
  394. # [17:21] <SimonSapin> annevk: lots referenced from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012May/0329.html
  395. # [17:21] <SimonSapin> I’m writing a patch for css3-syntax
  396. # [17:23] <annevk> SimonSapin: except the edit was made and then reverted, and I believe Bert had a reason for that
  397. # [17:23] <annevk> SimonSapin: see the above draft for where the change was actually in
  398. # [17:30] * Quits: yoav (~yoav@sdo26-1-78-245-148-181.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  399. # [17:31] * Joins: yoav (~yoav@sdo26-1-78-245-148-181.fbx.proxad.net)
  400. # [17:32] <annevk> Ah, the problem is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Jul/0499.html I suppose
  401. # [17:51] * Quits: nonge (~nonge@p50829C41.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Verlassend)
  402. # [18:00] * Joins: jonlee (~jonlee@65.50.220.8)
  403. # [18:02] * abstractj|away is now known as abstractj
  404. # [18:12] * Joins: Maurice` (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  405. # [18:15] * Joins: ap_ (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:f8dc:2fe5:c37d:30e2)
  406. # [18:19] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@host86-166-155-127.range86-166.btcentralplus.com)
  407. # [18:33] * Joins: eresair (~eresair@c-24-5-78-71.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  408. # [18:35] * Quits: danbri_ (~danbri@146.255.148.108) (Remote host closed the connection)
  409. # [18:38] * Quits: jonlee (~jonlee@65.50.220.8) (Quit: jonlee)
  410. # [18:43] * Joins: fr0zenice (~frozenice@unaffiliated/fr0zenice)
  411. # [18:46] * Joins: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-rqnnvwpqbjjtcsrh)
  412. # [18:47] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@70.102.199.158)
  413. # [18:48] * Joins: say2joe (~say2joe@204.56.108.2)
  414. # [18:52] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13)
  415. # [18:53] * Quits: drollwit (~drollwit@c-67-183-156-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  416. # [18:53] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238) (Quit: sedovsek)
  417. # [18:53] * Joins: drollwit (~drollwit@c-67-183-156-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  418. # [18:53] * Quits: drollwit (~drollwit@c-67-183-156-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  419. # [18:54] * Joins: drollwit (~drollwit@c-67-183-156-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  420. # [18:55] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@173.226.97.253)
  421. # [18:55] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@173.226.97.253) (Client Quit)
  422. # [19:00] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  423. # [19:00] * Quits: eminor (~eminor@p548CF25A.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: eminor)
  424. # [19:02] * Joins: danbri_ (~danbri@cable-146-255-148-108.dynamic.telemach.ba)
  425. # [19:04] * Joins: jonlee (~jonlee@2620:149:4:1b01:b822:7fa6:7e22:8eb0)
  426. # [19:05] * Joins: JonathanNeal (~JonathanN@38.122.109.194)
  427. # [19:05] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com)
  428. # [19:07] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-86.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  429. # [19:11] * Quits: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  430. # [19:15] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-61-126-157.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)
  431. # [19:19] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@adsl-70-131-103-149.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)
  432. # [19:19] * Parts: adactio (~adactio@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
  433. # [19:21] * Quits: danbri_ (~danbri@cable-146-255-148-108.dynamic.telemach.ba) (Remote host closed the connection)
  434. # [19:34] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  435. # [19:34] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Client Quit)
  436. # [19:36] * Joins: danbri_ (~danbri@cable-146-255-148-108.dynamic.telemach.ba)
  437. # [19:36] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net)
  438. # [19:38] * Quits: Wilto (~uid2821@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wvenjkjbwdmbcowd)
  439. # [19:39] <SimonSapin> annevk: well, in level 3 tree construction actually uses the tokenization
  440. # [19:39] <SimonSapin> having a full CSS 2.1 separated from the core grammar was a mistake IMO
  441. # [19:43] * Joins: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it)
  442. # [19:44] * Joins: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  443. # [19:45] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@host86-166-155-127.range86-166.btcentralplus.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  444. # [19:46] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  445. # [19:46] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@vev69-1-82-232-219-95.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  446. # [19:46] <annevk> uhuh
  447. # [19:49] * Quits: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  448. # [19:50] * Joins: Wilto (uid2821@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tzgivookospmgghw)
  449. # [19:52] * nimbu is now known as divya
  450. # [19:52] * Quits: Zauberfisch (~Zauberfis@2a01:4f8:100:73c3::3) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  451. # [19:55] * Quits: zdobersek (~zdobersek@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
  452. # [19:56] * Joins: Zauberfisch (~Zauberfis@2a01:4f8:100:73c3::3)
  453. # [20:00] * Quits: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  454. # [20:04] * Joins: jamesr (jamesr@nat/google/x-wqjrmdhdquwigbba)
  455. # [20:06] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.19.229.getinternet.no)
  456. # [20:07] * Joins: zdobersek (~zdobersek@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si)
  457. # [20:08] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  458. # [20:10] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@ip-166.net-89-2-153.rev.numericable.fr)
  459. # [20:12] * Quits: reinaldob (~reinaldob@201.74.207.56) (Remote host closed the connection)
  460. # [20:17] * Quits: danbri_ (~danbri@cable-146-255-148-108.dynamic.telemach.ba) (Remote host closed the connection)
  461. # [20:17] * Quits: eighty4 (~eighty4@unaffiliated/eighty4) (Excess Flood)
  462. # [20:19] * JohnAlbin is now known as JohnAlbin_zzzzzz
  463. # [20:20] * Joins: eighty4 (~eighty4@unaffiliated/eighty4)
  464. # [20:25] * Joins: OnlyMax (~OnlyMax@187-126-225-172.user.veloxzone.com.br)
  465. # [20:27] <Ms2ger> w3fools is down?
  466. # [20:31] * Quits: Wilto (uid2821@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tzgivookospmgghw)
  467. # [20:32] * Joins: jarek_ (~jarek@ekn140.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  468. # [20:33] * Quits: danielfilho|w (~danielfil@200.232.113.107) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  469. # [20:33] * Joins: danielfi_ (~danielfil@200.232.113.107)
  470. # [20:33] * Quits: jsoncorwin (~textual@c-98-210-130-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  471. # [20:34] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  472. # [20:37] * Quits: Adawerk (~ada@169.241.49.57) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  473. # [20:45] * Joins: Adawerk (~ada@169.241.49.57)
  474. # [20:50] * Quits: abstractj (~abstractj@redhat/jboss/abstractj) (Excess Flood)
  475. # [20:51] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  476. # [20:51] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Remote host closed the connection)
  477. # [20:54] * Joins: abstractj (~abstractj@redhat/jboss/abstractj)
  478. # [20:54] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  479. # [20:55] * Joins: yroc (~yroc@out-on-131.wireless.telus.com)
  480. # [20:55] <Hixie> annevk: https://twitter.com/dret/status/286625563496574977 is funny because that's what people from the w3c said back when we started with Web Forms 2 :-)
  481. # [20:56] <yroc> Hi, happy new year all -- wondering about rationale for <pre>
  482. # [20:56] * Quits: jarek_ (~jarek@ekn140.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  483. # [20:57] <Hixie> anything specific about it? or just why it's in the spec?
  484. # [20:57] <yroc> why not just use white-space: pre;
  485. # [20:57] <yroc> and display: block;
  486. # [20:57] <tantek> because the white space has meaning in the content sometimes
  487. # [20:57] <Hixie> the idea is that CSS is optional
  488. # [20:57] <yroc> on any particular element that you want preformatting?
  489. # [20:57] <Hixie> you should be able to get everything important even if the CSS doesn't get applied
  490. # [20:57] <tantek> e.g. code, python, etc.
  491. # [20:58] <tantek> if the whitespace has meaning, use <pre>, if the white-space is presentational, use white-space property
  492. # [20:58] <Hixie> tantek: yroc is writing our rationale document, so he needs the "why" more than the "what" :-)
  493. # [20:59] <tantek> Hixie, s/important/has meaning in the content
  494. # [20:59] <tantek> "important" is too fuzzy / not actionable
  495. # [20:59] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@2620:149:4:1b01:5417:7e3a:cd69:e0b0) (Quit: rniwa)
  496. # [20:59] * Quits: darfia (~darfia@187.106.61.146) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  497. # [20:59] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@2620:149:4:1b01:110a:2c9d:82b3:b889)
  498. # [21:00] <Hixie> yeah not saying what i said was good, just that "do X" isn't helpful if the question is "why do we have X" :-)
  499. # [21:00] <tantek> my answer was for why
  500. # [21:01] <yroc> But really, where do we stop adding elements then. What makes preformatted text special enough to be given (and retained) a semantic tag?
  501. # [21:01] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  502. # [21:01] <tantek> we have <pre> because there are cases where whitespace has meaning in the content.
  503. # [21:01] * Joins: jsoncorwin (~textual@c-50-131-117-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  504. # [21:01] <tantek> yroc - elements have to meet a certain high bar for inclusion. I believe W3Cmemes has an explanatory image for this.
  505. # [21:01] <yroc> Or is it just historical?
  506. # [21:01] <Hixie> yroc: realistically, we have <pre> because it was implemented already when i wrote hte spec
  507. # [21:01] <tantek> (new) elements
  508. # [21:02] <yroc> Hixie: right then, it's basically historical...
  509. # [21:02] <Hixie> yroc: and for things that were implemented already, the choice is either (a) drop it in the "obsolete" section or (b) go all-in and spec it properly
  510. # [21:02] <tantek> Hixie, more stuff should have gone into the obsolete section
  511. # [21:02] <yroc> @So what made you decide the latter for pre?
  512. # [21:02] <Hixie> yroc: for <pre>, (b) seemed more useful since there are times, e.g. source code, e-mails, etc, where it's impossible without CSS
  513. # [21:02] <yroc> @Hixie, sorry
  514. # [21:02] <Hixie> tantek: file bugs
  515. # [21:02] * Joins: reinaldob (~reinaldob@201.74.207.56)
  516. # [21:03] <Hixie> s/etc/etc)/
  517. # [21:03] <tantek> Am now of the opinion that the back-semantic definitions of <i>, <b>, <s>, <u> are nearly useless and confusing.
  518. # [21:03] <Hixie> wait forget my last regexp
  519. # [21:03] <tantek> Hixie, I'd expect you to close the bugs as "already discussed"
  520. # [21:03] <Hixie> tantek: not if there's new data :-)
  521. # [21:03] <Hixie> tantek: but if you want to get rid of <i>, make sure to say what element you'd use instead for its six zillion use cases
  522. # [21:04] <tantek> well, I don't really consider "changing my opinion" to be sufficiently new/objective "data" for that purpose. however, it's sufficiently anecdotally interesting IMO that I'm going to teach that way.
  523. # [21:04] <Hixie> tantek: same for the others (but not six zillion, more like 5, 3, and 2 respectively)
  524. # [21:04] <tantek> the point is not that there are no use-cases. the point is that the use-cases are not relevant enough to justify inclusion in the core language.
  525. # [21:04] * Joins: danbri (~danbri@cable-146-255-148-108.dynamic.telemach.ba)
  526. # [21:05] <Hixie> yroc: see also http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/FAQ#Where.27s_the_harm_in_adding.E2.80.94 for rationale behind not adding features btw
  527. # [21:05] <Hixie> tantek: <i> has a ton of use cases that are pretty critical, imho.
  528. # [21:05] <yroc> @Hixie: will do
  529. # [21:05] <tantek> Hixie, that's a good link.
  530. # [21:05] <Hixie> tantek: the others i agree are weaker, and i wouldn't have added them if we didn't have a way to get them for free
  531. # [21:05] <tantek> Thanks, will be using that.
  532. # [21:06] <tantek> They're not free in terms of teaching cost.
  533. # [21:06] <tantek> <i> does stand out more than the others, I'll admit.
  534. # [21:06] <tantek> I have found more often uses for it in prose, posts etc.
  535. # [21:06] <Hixie> the teaching cost i think is gonna have to be paid for anyway
  536. # [21:06] <tantek> (per the "instance of a term" rough definition)
  537. # [21:06] * Quits: divya (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  538. # [21:06] <tantek> Hixie, nah, we can simply ignore old/obsolete elements when authoring.
  539. # [21:07] <yroc> I've interpreted <i>, for example, to be a "catch all" for semantic phrases that are conventionally marked up with italics. and
  540. # [21:07] * tantek jokingly thinks of writing a summary of HTML: The Good Parts ;)
  541. # [21:07] <Hixie> there's so much material and software out there saying to use <b> and <u> and to a lesser extent <s> that you;ll have to field questions either way; we might as well, imho, head it off at the pass.
  542. # [21:07] <Hixie> by defining them
  543. # [21:07] <tantek> nah, easier to say, "old docs, ignore"
  544. # [21:07] <Hixie> since we have uses for them
  545. # [21:07] * Quits: reinaldob (~reinaldob@201.74.207.56) (Remote host closed the connection)
  546. # [21:07] <Ms2ger> tantek, good luck finding those
  547. # [21:08] <tantek> just as we say for that-website-that-shall-not-be-named-but-shows-up-in-google-results
  548. # [21:08] <tantek> good luck finding what?
  549. # [21:08] <tantek> people love simplified summaries
  550. # [21:08] <tantek> that dispense with trivia, esoterica, obsolete "old people" stuff
  551. # [21:08] <Ms2ger> The good parts of HTML
  552. # [21:08] <yroc> You use <em> for stress emphasis, but you can't have tag for every possible case where italics are conventionally used. Therefore you defined <i> as a "catch-all".
  553. # [21:08] <yroc> @Hixie: is that a correct interpretation of <i>?
  554. # [21:09] <Hixie> tantek: "old docs, ignore" is not much cheaper than "b is for keywords, s is for intentionally inaccurate text (think price cuts), and u is for annotations (like spelling errors)"
  555. # [21:09] <Hixie> tantek: see http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#usage-summary
  556. # [21:09] <Hixie> yroc: yeah, it's pretty close
  557. # [21:10] <tantek> Hixie, how is "keyword" different from "instance of a term"?
  558. # [21:10] <Hixie> yroc: (though i wouldn't use the word "italics")
  559. # [21:10] <yroc> @Hixie: why? and what word would you use?
  560. # [21:11] <Hixie> tantek: see the spec, it has some pretty good examples. the short answer is when you read text that has <i>, you use a different voice, whereas you don't read <b> differently at all, instead it's meant to draw your attention.
  561. # [21:11] <Hixie> tantek: e.g. gossip magazines will <b> a person's name so you can see the articles talks about them, but <i> wouldn't be appropriate for that.
  562. # [21:11] <Hixie> yroc: "instance of term" or "alternate mood or voice", like the spec :-)
  563. # [21:11] * Quits: OnlyMax (~OnlyMax@187-126-225-172.user.veloxzone.com.br) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  564. # [21:12] <yroc> @Hixie: right, but why are those particular (seemingly disparate) semantic elements lumped together in the first place?
  565. # [21:13] <yroc> Is it not because they are conventionally *italicized*?
  566. # [21:13] <tantek> Hixie, how do you "draw your attention" to <b> in a screen reader if "you don't read <b> differently at all" ?
  567. # [21:13] <yroc> in prose.
  568. # [21:14] <yroc> What does "instance of term", "alternate mood", and "ship name" have in common?
  569. # [21:14] <yroc> If not that they are conventionally italicized in prose?
  570. # [21:16] <Hixie> yroc: see the spec. The core definition is "alternate mood or voice", the others are all just examples of that. For example, when you say "I sailed on the /Enterprise/ for a couple of days", you tend to have a slight pause before the ship name and pronounce it with a slightly different stress. Same as "I like /felis domesticus/".
  571. # [21:16] <Hixie> tantek: a list or other UI, same as e.g. headings, tables, etc.
  572. # [21:17] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  573. # [21:17] <yroc> @Hixie not so sure about that one :-)
  574. # [21:17] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl)
  575. # [21:17] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@ip-166.net-89-2-153.rev.numericable.fr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  576. # [21:18] <yroc> But you're the editor. I'm here to write what you're rationale is, so that's what I'll do.
  577. # [21:19] * abstractj is now known as abstractj|away
  578. # [21:19] <yroc> Just circling back to <pre> for a moment, you said its continued inclusion is partially do to CSS being required.
  579. # [21:20] <yroc> Are you saying it's a goal of specing HTML to minimize authors having to use CSS?
  580. # [21:21] <Hixie> the core design of HTML is that it describes the page's structure/meaning/semantics/logic/content/other-buzz-words, while CSS describes the page's layout/presentational/formatting/style/other-buzz-words. The latter part is medium-specific and should never be necessary to understand the page.
  581. # [21:21] <Hixie> it should always be possible to just drop CSS entirely and still interact with / use / understand the page
  582. # [21:22] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  583. # [21:22] <Hixie> without CSS it'll likely be much uglier, but that's a separate issue
  584. # [21:22] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  585. # [21:23] <yroc> That's a good explanation -- makes me understand pre better, thanks.
  586. # [21:23] <yroc> In the spec, regarding links, it says: media, hreflang, and type attributes are "purely advisory", what exactly does that mean?
  587. # [21:24] <yroc> "Purely advisory", that is...
  588. # [21:24] <Hixie> "media" should be gone
  589. # [21:24] <Hixie> unless you mean <link>
  590. # [21:24] <yroc> It's a general link section... I think it includes <a> and <link>
  591. # [21:25] * Quits: ryuone (~ryuone@133.242.16.101) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  592. # [21:25] * ap_ is now known as ap
  593. # [21:25] <Hixie> "purely advisory" means "just information, not something anyone is expecting you to take as fact or do anything interesting with, if you get more authoritative information, ignore the purely informative one"
  594. # [21:25] <Hixie> try reloading, i removed "media" a few days ago
  595. # [21:26] <yroc> K.
  596. # [21:27] * Joins: ryuone (~ryuone@133.242.16.101)
  597. # [21:28] * Joins: HLFH (~hlfh@AMontsouris-651-1-99-224.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  598. # [21:29] <yroc> Another <pre> question (sorry!) Why are <br> elements allowed in pre? Doesn't that contradict the semantics?
  599. # [21:31] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net) (Quit: sicking)
  600. # [21:31] * Quits: zdobersek (~zdobersek@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
  601. # [21:32] <Hixie> <br> in <pre> means nothing different than a newline
  602. # [21:33] <yroc> Yes, but isn't the whole point of pre, that the text is formatted "by typographic conventions rather than by elements"? (where I interpret <br> to be an element).
  603. # [21:34] <Ms2ger> Not really
  604. # [21:34] <Ms2ger> You can have <strong>s too
  605. # [21:34] <Ms2ger> Or whatever you like
  606. # [21:34] <Hixie> yroc: that's the intent, but it's harmless to allow <br> in practice
  607. # [21:35] <Hixie> yroc: in general we try to make things be invalid if that would help catch likely errors
  608. # [21:35] <yroc> Aha, got ya.
  609. # [21:35] <Hixie> yroc: but if something is just a bit silly, not really an error, and solving it wouldn't save anyone any time, then we allow it, typically
  610. # [21:35] <yroc> Or perhaps could you call it "non-conforming"
  611. # [21:35] <Hixie> yroc: see also http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#conformance-requirements-for-authors
  612. # [21:36] <Hixie> and its subsections
  613. # [21:36] <yroc> I know I'm being very (too) analytical, but that's me!
  614. # [21:36] <yroc> Yes, I'll check it out.
  615. # [21:37] * Joins: danzik171 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106)
  616. # [21:38] * Quits: yroc (~yroc@out-on-131.wireless.telus.com) (Quit: OK, gotta run. Have a great day all.)
  617. # [21:40] * Quits: danzik17 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  618. # [21:44] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  619. # [21:47] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@87.64.251.111) (Quit: nn)
  620. # [21:59] * Joins: ap_ (~ap@17.114.105.21)
  621. # [22:00] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com)
  622. # [22:01] * Quits: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: The computer fell asleep)
  623. # [22:01] * Quits: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:f8dc:2fe5:c37d:30e2) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  624. # [22:01] * ap_ is now known as ap
  625. # [22:02] * Joins: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  626. # [22:03] * Joins: scor (~scor@31-33-229.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  627. # [22:03] * Quits: scor (~scor@31-33-229.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Changing host)
  628. # [22:03] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  629. # [22:05] * Joins: attiks_ (~chatzilla@d5153136D.static.telenet.be)
  630. # [22:06] * Quits: attiks (~chatzilla@d5153136D.static.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  631. # [22:07] * attiks_ is now known as attiks
  632. # [22:07] * Quits: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  633. # [22:08] * Quits: gavinc (~gavin@50.0.77.3) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  634. # [22:11] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13)
  635. # [22:11] * Quits: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron) (Quit: Leaving.)
  636. # [22:12] * Quits: aglehg (~aglehg@a79-169-217-71.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  637. # [22:15] * Quits: danbri (~danbri@cable-146-255-148-108.dynamic.telemach.ba) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  638. # [22:17] * Joins: danzik17 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106)
  639. # [22:19] * Quits: danzik171 (~danzik17@164.55.254.106) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  640. # [22:25] * Joins: seventh (seventh@207.207.28.26)
  641. # [22:32] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  642. # [22:34] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  643. # [22:36] * Joins: isherman-book (Adium@nat/google/session)
  644. # [22:41] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@adsl-70-131-103-149.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: Reconnecting…)
  645. # [22:41] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@adsl-70-131-103-149.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)
  646. # [22:42] * Quits: HLFH (~hlfh@AMontsouris-651-1-99-224.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
  647. # [22:43] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com)
  648. # [22:43] * Parts: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com)
  649. # [22:44] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@bcy238.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  650. # [22:44] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@bcy238.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Changing host)
  651. # [22:44] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  652. # [22:49] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@64.206.121.41)
  653. # [22:49] * Joins: jarek_ (~jarek@aamc132.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  654. # [22:49] * jarek is now known as Guest61699
  655. # [22:52] * Quits: Guest61699 (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  656. # [22:53] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13)
  657. # [22:53] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  658. # [22:53] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  659. # [22:54] * Joins: HLFH (~hlfh@AMontsouris-651-1-99-224.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  660. # [22:55] * Quits: HLFH (~hlfh@AMontsouris-651-1-99-224.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
  661. # [22:56] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net)
  662. # [22:59] * Quits: drollwit (~drollwit@c-67-183-156-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  663. # [22:59] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  664. # [22:59] * Joins: drollwit (~drollwit@c-67-183-156-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  665. # [23:00] * Quits: MacTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  666. # [23:02] * Quits: drollwit (~drollwit@c-67-183-156-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  667. # [23:03] * Joins: drollwit (~drollwit@c-67-183-156-240.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  668. # [23:06] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com)
  669. # [23:09] * Quits: isherman-book (Adium@nat/google/session) (Quit: Leaving.)
  670. # [23:13] * Quits: Maurice` (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  671. # [23:16] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  672. # [23:21] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-61-126-157.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) (Quit: sedovsek)
  673. # [23:22] * Quits: shannonmoeller (~shannonmo@nat.sierrabravo.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  674. # [23:28] * Joins: shannonmoeller (~shannonmo@nat.sierrabravo.net)
  675. # [23:29] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: ROLLERGATOR RAP)
  676. # [23:38] * Joins: nonge (~nonge@p50829C41.dip.t-dialin.net)
  677. # [23:40] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@h-66-166-3-76.lsanca54.static.covad.net)
  678. # [23:46] * Quits: Robbert_ (~robbert@2001:980:9368:1:ac25:2634:c8dc:7ae5) (Remote host closed the connection)
  679. # [23:46] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  680. # [23:50] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@BSN-61-126-157.dial-up.dsl.siol.net)
  681. # [23:52] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-72-94-180-24.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  682. # [23:53] <Hixie> not sure how i feel about @whatwg tweeting out w3c bureaucracy :-P
  683. # [23:56] * Joins: Robbert_ (~robbert@2001:980:9368:1:8c81:f1f5:d355:71d2)
  684. # [23:57] <tantek> unless WHATWG is planning a takeover from within of W3C bureaucracy...
  685. # [23:57] <Hixie> "takeover"?
  686. # [23:57] <Hixie> of what?
  687. # [23:58] <Hixie> we already write all the specs we want to write, what more is there to take over
  688. # Session Close: Fri Jan 04 00:00:00 2013

The end :)