/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-01-18 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Jan 18 00:00:01 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  6. # [00:09] <Hixie> huh. i'd forgotten that overflow:Scroll doesn't clip descendent position:absolute content.
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  9. # [00:12] <Hixie> i wonder what we do with anchored dialogs that are inside overflow:scroll areas.
  10. # [00:13] <Hixie> 1. that are anchored to things outside the overflow
  11. # [00:13] <Hixie> 2. that are anchored to things inside the overflow
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  128. # [05:53] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: three of the W3C validator.nu instances crashed today at almost the same time with segfaults
  129. # [05:57] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: looking at the log output, I have no idea why. The last stack trace in the logs is for a SAXStreamer.fatal error from TreeBuilder.startTag(TreeBuilder.java:2859) > TreeBuilder.pushHeadPointerOntoStack(TreeBuilder.java:4574) in the htmlparser code
  130. # [05:59] <MikeSmith> but that's a noraml error that appears to occur pretty often in the logs anyway, without any segfault happening
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  137. # [06:14] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: hmm all of them show that somebody was trying to use the /html5 UI for some reason
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  140. # [06:16] <MikeSmith> which is not linked to from the main UI nor anywhere, so dunno how they'd even know it was there. I guess I should just disable that but I don't know how
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  182. # [08:19] <stevefaulkner> MikeSmith: email to webkit dev list from James Craig http://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2013-January/023371.html :-)
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  200. # [09:06] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: seems weird for SAXStreamer to be used in ways that’d crash
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  215. # [09:48] <MikeSmith> Stevef: yep, saw that. Will get my test fixed and update the patch
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  217. # [09:49] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: yeah, pretty sure that had nothing to do with it
  218. # [09:50] <MikeSmith> nothing else at all in the logs that would provide a clue about what the cause was, though
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  239. # [10:36] <Stevef> TabAtkins: didn't think I was putting words in your mouth, I qualified the statement with "appears to think"
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  241. # [10:38] <Stevef> TabAtknins: on mobile/tablets not an issue, but on desktop...
  242. # [10:38] <odinho> Hmm. Whatever happened to the tests-on-GitHub thing?
  243. # [10:40] <MikeSmith> odinho: going as planned, far as I know
  244. # [10:40] <MikeSmith> some reason to think otherwise?
  245. # [10:40] <odinho> MikeSmith: Okay, I thought it was done already? :P
  246. # [10:40] <odinho> MikeSmith: I can't find it on github.com/w3c
  247. # [10:40] <MikeSmith> eh?
  248. # [10:40] <MikeSmith> html-testsuite, right?
  249. # [10:41] <odinho> Hmmmm. But but, I'm interested in webapps and webappsec :)
  250. # [10:41] <MikeSmith> aah
  251. # [10:41] <odinho> Yeah, -- I remember asking about that.
  252. # [10:41] <MikeSmith> well
  253. # [10:41] <odinho> And "blabla decision needed". So guess I have to do some actual admin work there :P
  254. # [10:41] <MikeSmith> odinho: bug Art
  255. # [10:42] <odinho> MikeSmith: Okay :]
  256. # [10:42] <MikeSmith> Art is great on getting decisions made and stuff done
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  258. # [10:44] <odinho> MikeSmith: I've seen that :-) So I'll just wait till the end of the day when I guess he'll come on.
  259. # [10:44] <MikeSmith> yeah
  260. # [10:46] <MikeSmith> Stevef: in the bug, Niwa-san is asking that I put my name in the name field in the changelogs for the patch. So I'll do that but put "Authored by Steve Faulkner." at the top of the body of the changelog.
  261. # [10:47] <MikeSmith> if that's OK with you
  262. # [10:47] <Stevef> MikeSmith: yeah no problem, the importnat thing is it gets implemented :-)
  263. # [10:48] <Stevef> and you did all the hard work getting the tests done, thanks!
  264. # [10:48] <MikeSmith> ain't done yet
  265. # [10:48] <MikeSmith> well mostly done
  266. # [10:49] <MikeSmith> but then everything's always mostly done
  267. # [10:50] <Stevef> well the patch itself took a few hours and that is only because I am a noob
  268. # [10:50] <Stevef> a few lines of code
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  302. # [13:54] <MikeSmith> Stevef: question just out of curiosity, one of the existing tests I'm looking at has a comment, "When a header and footer are inside an article, they should not be landmarks."
  303. # [13:54] <MikeSmith> and the test has an assertion for checking that
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  305. # [13:55] <MikeSmith> why is that the expected behavior?
  306. # [13:56] <annevk> landmarks are document/application global
  307. # [13:56] <annevk> iirc
  308. # [13:57] <hsivonen> hmm. so much wrong with the pro-Polyglot rationale
  309. # [13:57] <hsivonen> probably not worth the 386, though
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  311. # [13:59] <MikeSmith> annevk: I see
  312. # [14:00] * hsivonen is slightly surprised to see “simple majority wins” as opposed to “chairs decide” polls at the HTML WG
  313. # [14:00] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: me too actually
  314. # [14:01] <MikeSmith> they seem to be making a distinction between process issues and technical issues
  315. # [14:01] <hsivonen> yeah
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  317. # [14:03] <Stevef> MikeSmith: thats how webkit have implemented header/footer as their use in HTML is not the same as in ARIA, having lots of headers and footers in pages makes noise if they are all landmarks
  318. # [14:04] <MikeSmith> Stevef: you mean that behavior is not required by the ARIA spec?
  319. # [14:05] <Stevef> Its not required by HTML5 there is not a one to one mapping between definition and recommended use of header/footer and definition and recommended use of banner/contentinfo
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  321. # [14:06] <Stevef> as anne said "landmarks are document/application global"
  322. # [14:06] <Stevef> they are not meant to be overused otherwise their utiltiy is lost
  323. # [14:07] <Stevef> landmark are typically big chunks a macro division of content
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  326. # [14:09] <MikeSmith> if that's the case then the behavior that WebKit has adopted should be made a requirement in the spec, I think
  327. # [14:09] <MikeSmith> Firefox handles them differently?
  328. # [14:10] <Stevef> Firefox at the moment does am working on getting them to adopt webkit behaviour, at the moment header isn't exposed as a landmark at all
  329. # [14:10] <MikeSmith> oh
  330. # [14:11] <Stevef> note: they still get a role in webkit, a more generic 'group' role
  331. # [14:11] <MikeSmith> ok
  332. # [14:12] <MikeSmith> so to be clear, for the case where they are children of <main> the should still be landmarks, though, right?
  333. # [14:12] <Stevef> yes
  334. # [14:12] <MikeSmith> if so I can have the test check for that
  335. # [14:12] <MikeSmith> ok
  336. # [14:12] <Stevef> its only article/section
  337. # [14:12] <MikeSmith> hai
  338. # [14:13] <Stevef> will need to think on it a bit re: children of main
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  341. # [14:15] <Stevef> typically header and footer are used as would be expected of banner/contentinfo in the wild, but when they are not they tend to be many instances on a page
  342. # [14:16] <Stevef> expected as in a single instance of each
  343. # [14:17] <Stevef> 278 HTML5 pages using Header and Footer elements http://www.html5accessibility.com/HTML5data/header-footer/index-all.html
  344. # [14:18] <Stevef> usually header at top and footer at bottom of page unsurprisingly
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  351. # [14:41] <MikeSmith> Stevef: oh strike what I said before. It seems like header and footer should not be landmarks if they're childen of main
  352. # [14:41] <MikeSmith> because people should not be using them as children of main to begin with, right?
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  354. # [14:48] <hsivonen> is anyone maintaining a service that diffs W3C HTML and WHATWG HTML and visualizes the differences?
  355. # [14:48] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: not that I know of
  356. # [14:50] <hsivonen> ok :-(
  357. # [14:52] <annevk> MikeSmith: was it announced who got two year and who got one year on the TAG?
  358. # [14:52] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: one issue is, I think HTML diffing tools choke on the spec in its current size
  359. # [14:52] <annevk> I just noticed again that difference exists
  360. # [14:52] <MikeSmith> annevk: it was announced to the AC
  361. # [14:52] <MikeSmith> annevk: yeah you got the short straw
  362. # [14:52] <MikeSmith> oh
  363. # [14:52] <MikeSmith> hmm
  364. # [14:53] <annevk> that sounds positive
  365. # [14:53] <annevk> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2013Jan/0016.html could be seen either as order of elected or on order of last name with my name incorrectly ordered as would be typical in the US
  366. # [14:53] <MikeSmith> I guess I shouldn't have said it here if it's not been announced
  367. # [14:54] <annevk> well http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/ has it as public
  368. # [14:54] <MikeSmith> annevk: yeah I've no insight into the order he chose
  369. # [14:55] <annevk> thanks for looking
  370. # [14:56] <hsivonen> annevk: I don’t see that page saying anything about the newly-elected members
  371. # [14:56] <annevk> hsivonen: I meant it'll be public soon enough
  372. # [14:56] <hsivonen> ah
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  374. # [14:59] <MikeSmith> Stevef: if header and footer really are not meant to be used a direct children of main then you could make that an explicit requirement in the spec, in the Content Model part ("Flow content, with no header or or footer children.")
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  377. # [15:03] <annevk> http://digbysblog.blogspot.ca/2013/01/the-poor-poor-rich-of-wall-street.html trololol
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  381. # [15:16] <MikeSmith> annevk: yeah in that graphic the distressed looks on the faces of all the people was the best touch
  382. # [15:20] <MikeSmith> people struggling on a meager $200,000 salary plus only $25,000 a year on top of that in investment income
  383. # [15:21] <MikeSmith> you really have to empathize with their hardship
  384. # [15:22] <MikeSmith> but then the kicker is you find out out their taxes are going to increase by $2900
  385. # [15:23] <MikeSmith> and then at the injustice of that heinous increase you can only feel outrage
  386. # [15:23] <MikeSmith> masterful
  387. # [15:24] <Stevef> MikeSmith: that will involve chnages to authroing advice for footer/header is spec
  388. # [15:25] <MikeSmith> Stevef: my point is it should not be mere advice
  389. # [15:25] <MikeSmith> it should be a requirement
  390. # [15:26] <MikeSmith> and yeah I realize it would need a change to the spec
  391. # [15:26] <Stevef> MikeSmith: well that means significant changes...
  392. # [15:26] <MikeSmith> I'm not asking about it right now for the purposes of tests for the patch
  393. # [15:26] <MikeSmith> Stevef: yeah, sure
  394. # [15:26] <Stevef> MikeSmith: realise that, need to look at data and use cases then...
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  396. # [15:27] <Stevef> see what shakes out
  397. # [15:27] <MikeSmith> ok
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  428. # [16:11] <Somatt_wrk> any idea what happens when loading new html5 semantic elements via xhr in IE8 once we've made it discover them ?
  429. # [16:11] <Somatt_wrk> can they be parsed properly ?
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  445. # [16:34] <MikeSmith> Stevef: OK I just posted and updated patch to the bug, with separate ax tests for Chrome and Safari
  446. # [16:34] <Stevef> yeah saw that thanks, hopefully will pass
  447. # [16:34] <MikeSmith> fingers crossed that it will actually pass when the mac-ews bot runs it
  448. # [16:35] <MikeSmith> cause I am not able to actually run it locally
  449. # [16:39] <MikeSmith> Stevef: it takes quite a while for the bots to run, but if you check later and all the platform indicators are green for the latest patch, then it's happy times
  450. # [16:39] <Stevef> cool will check
  451. # [16:40] <MikeSmith> I will now take the opportunity to drop off for a while and drink some shochu
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  453. # [16:42] <Stevef> have one for me you deserve it
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  475. # [17:51] <annevk> So is tag@w3.org subscribed to w3c-ac-forum@w3.org and am I therefore getting Member-only email again even though I cannot access Member-only archives?
  476. # [17:52] <annevk> And also, nobody told me I was added to tag@w3.org.
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  492. # [18:11] <hober> annevk: you're probably the first person elected to the tag who didn't simultaneously also have Member access
  493. # [18:12] <annevk> Does marcosc have Member access? I guess he might because of WebApps.
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  555. # [19:42] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
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  558. # [19:45] <astearns> good morning, dglazkov - is the 'is' attribute still immutable in the latest proposal?
  559. # [19:46] <dglazkov> astearns: yup
  560. # [19:46] <astearns> ok, thanks
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  617. # [21:25] <Hixie> dglazkov: by "immutable" you mean "changing it does nothing", right? (not that the attribute itself doesn't change)
  618. # [21:30] <dglazkov> Hixie: right
  619. # [21:31] <Hixie> good good
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  688. # Session Close: Sat Jan 19 00:00:00 2013

The end :)