/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-01-19 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Jan 19 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  19. # [00:28] <Hixie> i stuck the html spec intro into http://splasho.nfshost.com/upgoer5/
  20. # [00:28] <Hixie> it said: UH OH! YOU HAVE USED NON-PERMITTED WORDS (SPECIFICATION, DEFINES, WEB, PLATFORM, DETAIL, WEB, PLATFORM, SPECIFICATION, STACK, RELATIVE, SPECIFICATIONS, SUMMED).
  21. # [00:28] <Hixie> well bummer
  22. # [00:28] <Hixie> that's like half the words of the intro
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  39. # [00:57] <astearns> hixie: This paper shows how a big part of the world-wide tied-up things works, in lots and lots of ways. It goes with other papers that show how to make things work, shown in this picture:
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  42. # [01:06] <astearns> odd that 'shown' is more common than 'web' or 'link'
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  44. # [01:08] <dgorbik> Hixie: hello. There is a WebVTT requirment "The 'display' property on WebVTT Ruby Objects must be set to 'ruby'." But for just ruby elements in HTML we have those styles: "text-indent: 0;". Should they be different? Or probably display: ruby is not implemented yet in WebKit?
  45. # [01:08] <Hixie> TabAtkins: do i have to say anything for :user-error in the HTML spec?
  46. # [01:08] <Hixie> dgorbik: text-indent doesn't matter in webvtt's case because it doesn't apply and thus can't be set to anything but zero
  47. # [01:09] <Hixie> dgorbik: the problem in HTML is that text-indent inherits, and so anything that's block-like in a phrasing context has to have its text-indent overridden back to 0 so it doesn't get its ancestor's indent
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  49. # [01:09] <dgorbik> Hixie: then why don't we set display: ruby for HTML?
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  53. # [01:11] <Hixie> we do
  54. # [01:11] <Hixie> search for "ruby {"
  55. # [01:11] <Hixie> the first match is where it's set to display:ruby
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  57. # [01:12] <Hixie> wait, where did you find it set text-indent to zero in the spec?
  58. # [01:12] <dgorbik> Hixie: I don't see that in html.css
  59. # [01:12] <Hixie> it probably should, but i can't find that line...
  60. # [01:12] <Hixie> what's html.css?
  61. # [01:12] <dgorbik> No, I've found that in html.css
  62. # [01:12] <Hixie> oh
  63. # [01:12] <Hixie> i thought you were asking about the spec
  64. # [01:13] <dgorbik> these are default css styles in webkit for elements
  65. # [01:13] <Hixie> i'm not a webkit developer, so i've no idea
  66. # [01:13] <dgorbik> I am now trying to understand whether we have to set display: ruby for html elements as well.
  67. # [01:14] <dgorbik> Hixie: so the only thing I need — display: ruby should be set for HTML elements as well, not just WebVTT ruby elements?
  68. # [01:14] <Hixie> according to the spec, yes, but i have no idea how webkit implements ruby
  69. # [01:14] <Hixie> if it implements ruby
  70. # [01:14] <Hixie> maybe webkit has special optimisations to do it differently internally
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  73. # [01:15] <dgorbik> Hixie: okay, thanks, I will try to find that
  74. # [01:15] <Hixie> the spec just says what the results have to be like, not what the implementation strategy has to be
  75. # [01:15] <gsnedders> Hixie: Why do you not know everything?
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  81. # [01:34] <esprehn_> dgorbik: I don't think there's a ruby display type
  82. # [01:34] <dgorbik> esprehn_: is it being emulated somehow or just not implemented?
  83. # [01:35] <esprehn_> dgorbik: oh I see, css3-ruby specifies specific display types
  84. # [01:35] <esprehn_> dgorbik: webkit has a hack in RenderObject::createObject that checks the qname and looks at display and produces either an inline ruby or a block ruby
  85. # [01:35] <esprehn_> css3 ruby
  86. # [01:36] <esprehn_> err, css3 ruby's display types seem broken since it doesn't support block and inline modes
  87. # [01:37] <esprehn_> this spec is busted
  88. # [01:37] <zewt> it uses ... display types? o_O
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  91. # [01:41] <esprehn_> zewt: yeah, but doesn't define an inline-ruby or block-ruby or I dunno
  92. # [01:41] <esprehn_> I don't think webkit could implement the spec without breaking existing ruby content
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  94. # [01:43] <zewt> sounds like the wrong axis, though i havn't looked at that spec
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  97. # [01:43] <Hixie> empty numeric control, you hit the step up button. what value does it take?
  98. # [01:43] <Hixie> same question, step down button
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  100. # [01:44] <dgorbik> esprehn: do we render ruby the way specs require aside the fact we don't set some properties?
  101. # [01:44] <zewt> unless there's some use case for a particular behavior it's probably arbitrary
  102. # [01:44] <zewt> by default i'd probably just pick 0 (or 1 or an arbitrary value in range if there's a range limit)
  103. # [01:45] <Hixie> possible answers: minimum, maximum, default step base, step base, zero...
  104. # [01:45] <zewt> min and max don't seem correct, at least
  105. # [01:45] <Hixie> i was thinking just snap to the minimum
  106. # [01:45] <Hixie> let's see what real ones do...
  107. # [01:46] <zewt> what if the range is -9999999999 to 99999999999?
  108. # [01:46] <Hixie> what if indeed
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  110. # [01:47] <zewt> zero or one at least don't go crazy if the range is huge (or if there isn't any range)
  111. # [01:47] <dgorbik> esprehn, Hixie: by the way (I was about to ask this at one point). Specs require that 'background-' style rules that are applied to WebVTT objects should be applied to the root of those objects instead (it's called webvtt cue box). So here is a question — do you have an idea of how to implement that? As far as I understand we create a RenderStyle for the parent first and then for the children, so we will have to recalc styles after we
  112. # [01:48] <zewt> after we$
  113. # [01:48] <Hixie> chrome default to zero then takes a step in the given direction, snapping to min/max if it's out of range, as far as i can tell
  114. # [01:48] <Hixie> dgorbik: not all webvtt objects, just the root, right?
  115. # [01:48] <Hixie> dgorbik: just apply the background to the cue's wrapping box rather than the root box
  116. # [01:49] <dgorbik> esprehn: or do some crazy preprocessing... Like manually walking over the rules and splitting them so that 'background-' rules would apply to parent nodes. And only then create renderers
  117. # [01:49] <Hixie> ("just")
  118. # [01:49] <Hixie> opera seems to default to minimum if you go up and maximum if you go down
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  120. # [01:50] <dgorbik> Hixie: I thought that's for all objects... If any object (even deeply nested one) has this property, it should be applied to the cue box which could be several levels above.
  121. # [01:50] <dgorbik> no?
  122. # [01:51] <Hixie> no, that would make no sense :-)
  123. # [01:51] <Hixie> how would you decide which one was the background?
  124. # [01:51] <dgorbik> Hixie: that what I was thinking too
  125. # [01:53] <dgorbik> Hixie: hm, is looks like it's now clear about this. I don't remember it was in the previous revision.
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  211. # [06:32] <bambu> I have index.html, and I copy it to another file called about.html. I alter a paragraph containing the content, and I have a two page site!
  212. # [06:32] <bambu> However, to me it seems redundant to have basically two files that are the same apart from a small paragraph, lots of wasted space.
  213. # [06:33] <bambu> Is this just how its done?
  214. # [06:33] <bambu> Any alternatives?
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  218. # [06:51] <bambu> Anyone care to read: http://pastie.org/private/7jdn5nelu1zgg6m69pg2dg
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  226. # [07:26] <zewt> i'll never understand pages with image viewers that hide the image until it finishes loading
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  228. # [07:26] <zewt> as i sit there waiting for several seconds on a spinner or whatever annoyed because they're jumping hoops to disable incremental loading that browsers have spend tons of time making work
  229. # [07:27] <zewt> sometimes i can only wonder if peoples' brains have an on/off switch (stuck in the more unfortunate position)
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  277. # [11:13] <ashemedai> So this whole new Opera ICE using Webkit. I was amazed.
  278. # [11:13] <ashemedai> (Or Ice rather.)
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  318. # [15:20] <MikeSmith> so who's the guy in the Opera Ice video?
  319. # [15:20] <MikeSmith> I don't recognize him
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  324. # [16:06] <espadrine> MikeSmith: I thought that was Opera's CEO?
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  327. # [16:39] <Ms2ger> Opera has a CEO?
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  336. # [17:05] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: yeah Opera has a CEO but they're planning to replace him with WebKit
  337. # [17:05] <Ms2ger> I see
  338. # [17:06] <MikeSmith> espadrine: that's no Opera's CEO in that video
  339. # [17:06] <Ms2ger> Insufficient pointy hair?
  340. # [17:06] <MikeSmith> heh
  341. # [17:07] <MikeSmith> well, for one thing, he wouldn't be caught dead wearing the shirt that guy is wearing
  342. # [17:08] <MikeSmith> there are a lot of varieties of bad fashion sense in the world, but there's nothing quite like the northern European variety
  343. # [17:09] <MikeSmith> especially Scandinavian
  344. # [17:09] <MikeSmith> I mean what message is dude sending with that shirt
  345. # [17:10] <Ms2ger> And that coming from MikeSmith :)
  346. # [17:10] <MikeSmith> well, I would make that shirt look good
  347. # [17:10] <MikeSmith> it's all about how you wear it
  348. # [17:12] <Ms2ger> Adding a cowboy hat, maybe?
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  353. # [17:14] <MikeSmith> either that or one of my pimp canes
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  361. # [17:45] <Ms2ger> "Leading the Web to its fool potential"
  362. # [17:52] <divya> :)))
  363. # [17:52] <divya> thats what i was wondering MikeSmith
  364. # [17:52] <divya> that dude looks so not like lars
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  372. # [18:58] <MikeSmith> divya: indeed
  373. # [18:59] <MikeSmith> reminds me of somebody, but definitely not Lars
  374. # [18:59] <MikeSmith> https://mobile.twitter.com/kripken/status/292685421282988033
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  388. # [19:27] <hsivonen> has annevk's URL spec been implemented in Java yet?
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  400. # [20:24] <zewt> gar i need to write a gm script to somehow stop href from being changed during onmousedown, to kill those obnoxious fake-link things google and other sites do
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  408. # [20:39] <zewt> http://pastebin.com/vcjZ7nuh bad enough that google was doing it, now other sites are starting to copy it
  409. # [20:54] <zewt> oh i left it killing all onmousedowns, that won't exactly scale heh
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  429. # [22:38] <Moo-_-> zewt: aah... so that's how they do it
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The end :)