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- # Session Start: Fri Feb 01 00:00:00 2013
- # Session Ident: #whatwg
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- # [00:07] <Philip`> gsnedders: That sounds pretty slow given that the spec only uses about four different entities and they can be recognised from their first character :-p
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- # [00:10] <gsnedders> Philip`: Well, entity lookup is no longer the bottleneck
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- # [00:13] <JonathanNeal> Hello
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- # [00:13] <JonathanNeal> Anyone have IE7-9 running?
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- # [00:42] <Hixie> can anyone work out what the order is that i used for attributes in the attribute index?
- # [00:42] <Hixie> i think it's alphabetical by attribute name then by element names, with the element names being ordered alphabetically too
- # [00:42] <Hixie> and that i just screwed up type=""
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- # [00:54] <jwalden> esprehn: regarding "overly optimistic about what happens inside the JS VMs" and "we'll catch up with lisp eventually", I think it's at least unclear, as doing all the bits of analysis lisp does may impose unacceptable runtime overhead (or may not); but it is the case that SpiderMonkey has had to be selective about analysis it does due to that analysis not paying off well enough in the common cases
- # [00:54] * TabAtkins thinks some optional typing would help, but is willing to wait for a good PLT weenie to introduce a really nice type system first.
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- # [00:55] <Hixie> jwalden: yeah, certainly up-front analysis is a trade-off
- # [00:56] <Hixie> jwalden: i think long-term it's certainly plausible that a browser could notice some JS being used a lot and start doing more detailed analysis in the background
- # [00:56] <jwalden> Hixie: indeed
- # [00:56] <Hixie> jwalden: maybe even aggregating such analysis across many users
- # [00:56] * jwalden imagines privacy timing attacks on that ;-)
- # [00:56] <jwalden> but sure
- # [00:56] <Hixie> heh
- # [00:57] <jwalden> I just felt compelled to push back against the "Ope^H^H^HLisp did it first thing", when it's different requirements being solved :-)
- # [00:57] <Hixie> hehhah
- # [00:57] <Hixie> er
- # [00:57] <Hixie> heh was to the timing attacks, hah was to the different requireemnts
- # [00:58] <Hixie> we get that a lot. people are always telling me that this and that platform has solved some problem, so the web should do it too
- # [00:59] <jwalden> :-)
- # [00:59] <Hixie> and it's like, "yeah but they don't assume every application is a hostile attacker" or whatever
- # [00:59] <Hixie> always something different
- # [00:59] <Hixie> "yeah but they can assume you have a keyboard"
- # [00:59] <Hixie> or "yeah but they can assume the user isn't blind"
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- # [01:21] <JonathanNeal> eddieolson joined, eddieolson left, joined, left. He's as predictable as the spec.
- # [01:21] <zewt> gar is there some magic when i want to enter an address bar in firefox that happens to be open somewhere else
- # [01:21] <dgorbik_> Hixie: should all webvtt nodes be lineBoxes?
- # [01:21] <zewt> it demands very insistently that i switch to the other tab and refuses to autocomplete the url normally
- # [01:22] <Hixie> dgorbik_: what is a lineBox?
- # [01:22] <dgorbik_> Hixie: is display: block valid for any webvtt nodes in other words?
- # [01:22] <dgorbik_> Hixie: as far as I understand that's not valid at all
- # [01:23] <Hixie> what do you mean by "valid"?
- # [01:23] <TabAtkins> dgorbik_: "line boxes" isn't the right level of abstraction here. Maybe they're inline elements, but that's something different.
- # [01:23] <dgorbik_> Hixie: possible to have according to spevs
- # [01:23] <TabAtkins> (Line boxes get created out of all the inline elements participating in a given inline formatting context.)
- # [01:23] <Hixie> 'display' doesn't apply to the ::cue() pseudo-element regardless of argument, if that's what you mean
- # [01:24] <dgorbik_> TabAtkins: right. I am still trying to understand something about ruby
- # [01:24] <dgorbik_> TabAtkins: and display: ruby
- # [01:24] <TabAtkins> dgorbik_: Don't try to understand display:ruby. It's a bad spec that we will rewrite.
- # [01:24] <dgorbik_> TabAtkins: so I guess it's probably fine to drop the support for styling ruby/rt in webvtt for now?
- # [01:25] <dgorbik_> elements will still exist but without any default styles...
- # [01:26] <TabAtkins> You should still format them as ruby, but dont' worry about their interation with the current CSS Ruby spec.
- # [01:26] <dgorbik_> TabAtkins: what do you mean by "format"?
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- # [01:27] <TabAtkins> As in, shrink the rt and stack it on top of the rb. Normaly ruby formatting.
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- # [01:35] <kbrosnan> zewt: shift overrides the tab switch behavior
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- # [03:15] <zewt> in a thoroughly buggy way, it seems
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- # [07:44] <MikeSmith> if I read https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=782211 right, Gecko will soon have a fully conforming implementation of the current Notifications spec
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- # [07:56] <cgcardona> MikeSmith: ah, that's the problem. You need to read it left </lamejoke>
- # [07:56] <MikeSmith> heh
- # [07:57] <cgcardona> :-]
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- # [11:56] * Ms2ger would love it if brucel sent feedback instead of passive-aggressive tweets
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- # [12:03] <hellyeah> hey
- # [12:03] <hellyeah> is this channel for html 5
- # [12:04] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: are those the kind what people mean by "subtweet"?
- # [12:04] <MikeSmith> hellyeah: this is the channel for html
- # [12:04] <MikeSmith> without the 5
- # [12:05] <MikeSmith> we outgrew the 5
- # [12:05] <hellyeah> freenode has html channel and also this channel both channels are for html_
- # [12:06] <hellyeah> okey i got it
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- # [12:06] <hellyeah> i try to do clock wih svg http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/animate.html is it a good link tu study for it
- # [12:07] <jgraham> (this channel is typically for work on the specifications themselves. But I'm sure people will try to answer other questions too)
- # [12:08] <hellyeah> this is the first time i join this channel
- # [12:08] <MikeSmith> the #html5 channel might be better
- # [12:08] <hellyeah> i mean my question is kinda off topic sorry for that
- # [12:08] <MikeSmith> hellyeah: you might want to start by reading an SVG tutorial instead of the SVG spec
- # [12:08] <hellyeah> hmm
- # [12:09] <hellyeah> can you suggest svg tutorial to me if you have time
- # [12:09] <MikeSmith> http://html5demos.com/svg-clock
- # [12:09] <MikeSmith> http://www.nimblecoder.com/blog/archive/2009/12/30/animated-clocks-for-svg-and-silverlight.aspx
- # [12:10] <MikeSmith> could just do "view source" on some of those to start
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- # [12:13] <hellyeah> it can be totally stupid question. But i should know ig it is not. Html5 is windows thing?
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- # [12:18] <jgraham> Oooh, it's zcorpan
- # [12:18] <zcorpan> hey
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- # [12:20] <MikeSmith> long time not see
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- # [12:22] <zcorpan> indeed
- # [12:23] <zcorpan> i'll be offline for another while. just popped in here now accidentally. :-P
- # [12:23] <jgraham> Heh
- # [12:25] <zcorpan> so how's things?
- # [12:26] <jgraham> Pretty quiet
- # [12:27] <jgraham> Sounds like someone at moz. is implementing <track>
- # [12:28] <jgraham> It's nto clear if they have the right idea about how to read a spec or not :|
- # [12:28] <jgraham> But I pointed them at your tests at least
- # [12:28] <Ms2ger> It's a group of students
- # [12:29] <zcorpan> nice
- # [12:29] <jgraham> I see
- # [12:29] <zcorpan> bring on the clue bat :-)
- # [12:29] <Ms2ger> Lead by David Humphrey at Seneca
- # [12:29] <Ms2ger> I will :)
- # [12:30] <jgraham> Yeah, I remember them doing things before. Pointer lock last year, perhaps?
- # [12:30] <MikeSmith> yeah I think his students have a done several things that ended up landing
- # [12:30] <Ms2ger> Yep
- # [12:31] <jgraham> Seems liek a pretty neat course
- # [12:31] <MikeSmith> yeah if you read his blog postings, seems like he's got a great approach
- # [12:32] <jgraham> I haven't seen any about this time; perhaps he fell foul of the weird planet mozilla policies
- # [12:33] <MikeSmith> though comments from the guy that was here earlier asking implementing track parsing does make you think maybe they need some better direction in how to read a spec and how to implement from a spec
- # [12:34] <MikeSmith> in other news I'm going to make a serious effort this weekend to get github->w3c-test.org sync set up
- # [12:34] <MikeSmith> sorry it's taking so long
- # [12:35] <Ms2ger> Specs are hard, let's go shopping
- # [12:35] <jgraham> MikeSmith: Cool
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- # [14:13] <Jonny_> hello everybody.
- # [14:15] <Jonny_> iam getting bad respone if using canvas EventListener. i´m using this in a phonegab application so base is webkit...
- # [14:17] <Jonny_> Are threre any other choice than EventListener detecting a touch area?
- # [14:19] <Jonny_> or frameworks to get smoother respone....?
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- # [17:36] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
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- # [18:07] <Velmont> cocaine?
- # [18:07] <Ms2ger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-script-coord/2013JanMar/0120.html
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- # Session Close: Sat Feb 02 00:00:01 2013
The end :)