/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-02-18 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  94. # [07:18] <roc> am I right to conclude that http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/rendering.html#frames-and-framesets suggests CSS borders and padding don't apply to <frame> and <frameset> elements?
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  101. # [07:54] <JonathanNeal> why matches instead of is?
  102. # [07:54] * ashemedai is now known as asmodai
  103. # [07:54] <JonathanNeal> "matches" instead of "is", rather?
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  137. # [10:03] <jgraham> darobin: Please sir, I have a complaint
  138. # [10:03] <Ms2ger> Here you have your fish license already
  139. # [10:03] <darobin> hmmmm?
  140. # [10:03] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Well you are the cause of the complaint (sort of) :p
  141. # [10:03] <jgraham> https://github.com/w3c/html-testsuite/pull/26
  142. # [10:03] <Ms2ger> :D
  143. # [10:04] <darobin> a complaint?
  144. # [10:04] <jgraham> I fixed that
  145. # [10:04] <jgraham> But I can't push to that repo
  146. # [10:04] <darobin> is it the sort of complaint that can be addressed by making someone editor for polyglot?
  147. # [10:04] <jgraham> I suggets making annevk editor for polyglot
  148. # [10:04] <Ms2ger> jgraham, try again
  149. # [10:05] <darobin> jgraham: you're "jgraham" on GitHub, right?
  150. # [10:05] <jgraham> darobin: Yes
  151. # [10:05] <jgraham> Ms2ger: I hadn't tried yet
  152. # [10:05] <darobin> you're now part of team HTML
  153. # [10:05] <jgraham> I chose to believe it when it said "read only access" :)
  154. # [10:06] <jgraham> Is there a special handshake?
  155. # [10:06] <darobin> welcome to the HTML WG!!!!
  156. # [10:06] <darobin> moar srsly, you should be able to push
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  158. # [10:06] <Ms2ger> On another note, I guess we need a tester group for the new web-platform-tests repo
  159. # [10:06] <Ms2ger> Good morning, polyglot editor
  160. # [10:07] <jgraham> Pushed
  161. # [10:07] <darobin> Ms2ger: yeah, I'll do that all together
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  163. # [10:07] <jgraham> Thanks
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  166. # [10:09] <annevk> Wearing my DocXS t-shirt today
  167. # [10:09] <annevk> Sort of apt it's black in hindsight
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  170. # [10:11] <jgraham> Yeah, I like that shirt
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  174. # [10:12] <annevk> Ms2ger: more like destroyer
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  191. # [10:31] <annevk> Ms2ger: DOM says Mozilla now; okay?
  192. # [10:31] <annevk> Ms2ger: will update the rest as I get to them
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  194. # [10:31] <Ms2ger> Sure :)
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  197. # [10:36] <Ms2ger> jgraham, ping
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  201. # [10:44] * Ms2ger comments instead
  202. # [10:46] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Ooh iterative review
  203. # [10:46] <Ms2ger> I think I'm done now ;)
  204. # [10:48] <jgraham> I wonder if the spec changed or if these tests were always wrong
  205. # [10:49] <Ms2ger> The spec changed
  206. # [10:49] <Ms2ger> Somewhere after r7000
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  240. # [12:11] <annevk> Hmm, how hard can it be to find an Apple plug compatible with Switzerland
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  243. # [12:17] <karlcow> http://www.w3.org/QA/2008/07/html5-parsing-howto.html#c4009627
  244. # [12:18] <annevk> Can you pretty please do my homework?
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  246. # [12:20] <annevk> Well that's great, the cycle club I signed up for does not support last names that contain a space
  247. # [12:21] <annevk> Guess I'm now an i18n victim
  248. # [12:21] <karlcow> heh. annevk I had not read it like this. ☺ but that could be a reading, indeed.
  249. # [12:22] <annevk> "Are you sure you want to update this details?" The IT infrastructure from the cycle club is not very impressive
  250. # [12:22] <karlcow> Schmidt, ex-Google: "people who are concerned can just change their names."
  251. # [12:22] <karlcow> ok it was about privacy :p
  252. # [12:23] <karlcow> take a generic name… like… hmm… Mike Smith ?
  253. # [12:24] <annevk> My brother and I have been discussing to change our last name to Van Kesteren (without contextual lowercase v) as that might work better internationally. But maybe we should make it VanKesteren as that would work even better.
  254. # [12:24] <doublec> try <script>alert('johnsmith')</script> as your name. Sounds like it might work.
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  256. # [12:25] <karlcow> ah doublec might have the solution. van%20Kestern
  257. # [12:25] <SimonSapin> http://xkcd.com/327/ Bobby Tables
  258. # [12:25] <karlcow> van%20Kesteren
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  260. # [12:26] <annevk> doublec: so I have Mr Anne <script>alert(&#39;johnsmith&#39;)</script> in the source now but no alert...
  261. # [12:27] <doublec> So <script> is unescaped?
  262. # [12:27] <annevk> <script>alert(1)</script> works :-)
  263. # [12:27] <doublec> hahaha
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  265. # [12:27] <doublec> now try sql injection that actually updates the table to include your correct name ;)
  266. # [12:27] <karlcow> This cycling club seems to do stuff with injections. No good! think about Lance Armstrong. no good.
  267. # [12:28] <jgraham> Haha
  268. # [12:28] <annevk> Oh fuck
  269. # [12:28] <annevk> I can no longer change it because I added a space...
  270. # [12:28] <annevk> And since <script> is not escaped it eats the rest of the page
  271. # [12:28] <doublec> oops
  272. # [12:28] <annevk> (they strip everything after a space in the last name)
  273. # [12:28] <karlcow> sweet
  274. # [12:29] <jgraham> And now I am giggling like a lunatic in my office
  275. # [12:29] <karlcow> I imagine at the desk… "but what the fuck did you do that?" "I'm just a geek m'dam"
  276. # [12:30] <annevk> Fuck, now I need to "hack" this thing via the inspector
  277. # [12:30] * annevk hopes that works
  278. # [12:30] <doublec> I feel sorry for the admin who next gets the list of cycle club members
  279. # [12:31] * karlcow is keeping an eye on BBC homepage about a hacker who tried to steal the data of a cycling club.
  280. # [12:31] <jgraham> I think annevk should say sorry by offering to run their website :)
  281. # [12:31] <annevk> Ah great, I found the edit personal details URL and they're not echoing my last name there, except in an <input value> thingie which is somewhat properly escaped
  282. # [12:32] <annevk> (probably more due to how HTML works than anything on their part)
  283. # [12:32] <doublec> using <img src=http://xkcd.com/327/> would have made a fun last name
  284. # [12:32] <annevk> if only it did not require a space
  285. # [12:32] <doublec> oh true
  286. # [12:33] <annevk> oh maybe via document.write() we can avoid that
  287. # [12:33] <doublec> that'd need a ' or " though
  288. # [12:33] <doublec> which looks like they escape at least '
  289. # [12:34] <doublec> there's probably some fancy encoding scheme with a script to decode it and document.write it without using spaces
  290. # [12:34] <doublec> the JS equivalent of shell code
  291. # [12:36] <jgraham> You could always provide an array of ascii codepoints
  292. # [12:36] <jgraham> I think you could avoid space and quotes that way
  293. # [12:38] <annevk> Oooh, String.fromCharCode
  294. # [12:39] <annevk> document.write(String.fromCharCode(...)) with ... being <img src=http://xkcd.com/327/>
  295. # [12:39] <annevk> as a sequence of code points
  296. # [12:39] <doublec> nice
  297. # [12:39] <annevk> I'll try that, for science
  298. # [12:42] <doublec> that 'src' would need to be the actual image file
  299. # [12:42] <annevk> oh doh
  300. # [12:42] <doublec> http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/exploits_of_a_mom.png
  301. # [12:43] <jgraham> Yup
  302. # [12:43] <jgraham> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/2105
  303. # [12:43] <doublec> nifty :)
  304. # [12:44] <annevk> damnit
  305. # [12:44] <annevk> they have a fixed limit on last names
  306. # [12:44] <annevk> need to tinyurl it first
  307. # [12:44] <doublec> they might escape ; to
  308. # [12:44] * abstractj is now known as abstractj|gump
  309. # [12:44] <annevk> you don't need a ;
  310. # [12:47] <doublec> you can get rid of http: to
  311. # [12:47] <jgraham> while loop and multiple scripts?
  312. # [12:47] <doublec> for a protocol less url
  313. # [12:47] <annevk> success
  314. # [12:47] <doublec> \0/
  315. # [12:47] <annevk> I'll put proof on twitter
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  317. # [12:48] <annevk> <script>document.write(String.fromCharCode(60,105,109,103,32,115,114,99,61,104,116,116,112,58,47,47,103,111,111,46,103,108,47,87,107,81,49,51,62))</script> is what I used btw
  318. # [12:49] <jgraham> Oh, fromCharCode accepts multiple arguments?
  319. # [12:49] <jgraham> Hah, I forgot that. Makes to so easy as to be not fun :(
  320. # [12:54] <annevk> Using a loop would probably have hit the length limit
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  323. # [12:56] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: bugzilla.validator.nu seems to be hurting
  324. # [12:58] <annevk> So could also document.write a <script src> using this technique I suppose and do evil stuff
  325. # [12:58] <annevk> Oh well
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  330. # [13:05] <sedovsek> annevk: <script>document.write(Strin… Thumbs up! :)
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  333. # [13:08] <annevk> Ms2ger: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20925 ?
  334. # [13:09] <Ms2ger> I tend to agree with Hixie on this one
  335. # [13:10] <jgraham> Ms2ger: test review?
  336. # [13:11] <Ms2ger> ?
  337. # [13:11] <Ms2ger> I'm trying to also follow this class, so expect some lag :)
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  339. # [13:12] <annevk> Ms2ger: meh
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  366. # [14:10] <MikeSmith> Servo uses hubbub
  367. # [14:10] <MikeSmith> parser
  368. # [14:10] <MikeSmith> or did at least
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  371. # [14:11] <MikeSmith> seems like it still does, a far as I can tell
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  373. # [14:16] <jgraham> hsivonen was writing a servo backend for his parser transpiler at one point
  374. # [14:17] <jgraham> Seems to me that just writing a parser in servo wouldn't be all that much work. Or at least all the effort would be document.write
  375. # [14:17] <jgraham> s/servo/rust/
  376. # [14:17] <jgraham> with the global flag set
  377. # [14:18] <odinho> I had a friend trying Hubbub, -- but it was not good enough for his use.
  378. # [14:19] <smaug____> I believe hsivonen is still converting his parser to rust
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  380. # [14:24] <jgraham> I am using "was" in the Swedish sense ;)
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  382. # [14:25] <Ms2ger> Damn Swedes
  383. # [14:26] <smaug____> my Swedish is very Rust-y :)
  384. # [14:26] <jgraham> Heh
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  386. # [14:28] * Ms2ger reads backscroll, joins jgraham in giggling like a lunatic
  387. # [14:28] <jgraham> (the point, which I guess wasn't obvious, is that a common mistake that Swedes make when speaking English is to use "was" for things that are still ongoing. For example if you are eating a meal and want to comment on its deliciousness, in English you would say "this is nice", but often here you hear people say "this was nice")
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  390. # [14:34] <odinho> Not only Swedish, it's like than in Norwegian too.
  391. # [14:34] <payman> jgraham: I think that's the only place they use past tense (i.e. meal).
  392. # [14:35] <odinho> payman: In .no it's used all over the place.
  393. # [14:36] <payman> odinho: my Swedish is rusty too, so might be the case there as well.
  394. # [14:38] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: bugzilla.validator.nu should be a bit better now
  395. # [14:39] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: thanks
  396. # [14:39] <MikeSmith> was trying to respond to Jukka bug
  397. # [14:40] <MikeSmith> dude is such a pest
  398. # [14:41] <MikeSmith> I wish he'd find a different hobby
  399. # [14:47] <hsivonen> I'm not sure what bug you are referring to. I thought Jukka was contributing more constructively these days.
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  406. # [15:23] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: bug filed today http://bugzilla.validator.nu/show_bug.cgi?id=964 about the validator not reporting an error for <body><link rel="stylesheet" href="foo.css">
  407. # [15:24] <MikeSmith> which I agree ain't great but thanks to RDFa we're stuck with it
  408. # [15:26] <annevk> Making RDF opt-in is not easy?
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  413. # [15:40] <MikeSmith> we include RDFa checking by default intentionally, because so many pages have Facebook <meta property="og:title" content="foo"> stuff
  414. # [15:41] <MikeSmith> annevk: ↑
  415. # [15:42] <annevk> >sad panda<
  416. # [15:43] * jgraham blames tobie ;)
  417. # [15:49] <annevk> slightlyoff: you around today?
  418. # [15:49] <annevk> slightlyoff: I think sicking's proposal of not doing events in Futures for now makes sense
  419. # [15:49] <annevk> slightlyoff: to just have "Future" as it were
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  447. # [16:53] <annevk> Oh, Sylvain is leaving Microsoft. I guess he has been hinting at that for a while now...
  448. # [16:57] <smaug____> going where?
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  450. # [16:58] <Ms2ger> Undisclosed, it seems
  451. # [16:58] <annevk> Yeah, afaict.
  452. # [16:59] <darobin> I guess Microsoft is slashing as part of its move to WebKit
  453. # [17:00] <jgraham> Microsoft slash fiction, you say?
  454. # [17:02] <annevk> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5237967 I suspect that does not include jl / bratell, but I hope they leave anyway to do bigger things.
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  457. # [17:02] <annevk> s/bratell/bratell \/ et al/
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  463. # [17:19] <sangwhan> It doesn't include jl or bratell
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  467. # [17:20] <sangwhan> ...although it is still a mystery why I am still here
  468. # [17:21] <annevk> sangwhan: maybe you should post something inappropriate to nonsense
  469. # [17:21] <sangwhan> annevk: tried that
  470. # [17:22] <sangwhan> annevk: several times :)
  471. # [17:23] <annevk> Clearly you need to up the ante
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  486. # [18:02] <jgraham> Why does someone at github think that putting a fixed width and overflow:scroll on code blocks is a good idea? It is just possible that if I have my browser window open on a large monitor I will find it immensely irritating to have to horizontally scroll all the time to read code when ~50% of the width of my display is unused
  487. # [18:02] <jgraham> s/open/maximized/
  488. # [18:03] <Philip`> Code that is wide than 72 characters is not worth reading anyway
  489. # [18:04] <zewt> heh
  490. # [18:04] <zewt> <- wraps to ~120
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  501. # [18:13] <annevk> zewt: hey you have some time?
  502. # [18:13] <annevk> zewt: that is, if you commented on some XHR stuff a while back, otherwise I'm talking to the wrong guy :)
  503. # [18:14] * Philip` recently looked at some code like https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/blob/rpi-3.6.y/drivers/char/broadcom/vc_cma/vc_cma.c#L703 which got auto-formatted with 80-character wrapping and 8-space tabs and had a high level of nesting, which ends up making the code pretty much entirely unreadable
  504. # [18:15] <zewt> annevk: i've commented on a lot of xhr stuff, you'll have to be more specific :)
  505. # [18:15] <zewt> yeah i'll be around for a while
  506. # [18:15] <annevk> zewt: so my here's my idea to replace the silly terminate send() / abort() thing
  507. # [18:15] <annevk> zewt: abort() and open() set the error flag; abort() will no longer do all the event dispatching stuff it does now
  508. # [18:16] <annevk> zewt: under the "request steps" in send() where it says what to do if the user aborts we add a check for whether the "error flag" is set
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  510. # [18:16] <zewt> Philip`: my favorite thing about PEP-8, which recommends hard wrapping at 79 characters, is the example immediately following it which, due to being wrapped at 79 characters, is utterly unreadable: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/#tabs-or-spaces
  511. # [18:16] <annevk> zewt: and then we remove all stuff about algorithms being able to be terminated as the error flag will take care of that
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  514. # [18:17] <zewt> annevk: one sec, need to refresh my memory of those algorithms
  515. # [18:19] <annevk> I think this is basically the right approach and I'm kinda sad I never thought of it in the seven years or so of maintaining this text
  516. # [18:21] <annevk> hmm, almost seven
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  519. # [18:24] <zewt> does that deal with abort()'s events being fired synchronously?
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  521. # [18:25] <annevk> argh, are they?
  522. # [18:26] <zewt> yeah (per spec, and just tested to confirm)
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  527. # [18:29] <annevk> hmm so instead we should have a separate entry for "error flag" that just cancels send() without doing anything else
  528. # [18:29] <annevk> abort() keeps its own event thingie
  529. # [18:32] <annevk> yeah that should work I think
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  553. # [18:46] <zewt> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh781216.aspx this page hurts my head
  554. # [18:47] <zewt> down below they go "release your blob urls!" ... but right at the very top they have "img.src = URL.createObjectURL" in an example
  555. # [18:48] <zewt> (and what the heck is "false" doing as the second argument to createObjectURL?)
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  560. # [18:55] <jgraham> (fun but irrelevant fact: on the way home the bus driver decided to stop the bus's engine, and restart it, causing the computer system displaying the time and the next stop to reboot. Apart from a linux penguin, the boot screen also had a red lizard and claimed to be "powered by gecko")
  561. # [18:55] <annevk> this is what you get when people just make up APIs as they go without thinking shit through :/
  562. # [18:58] <annevk> zewt: I still don't like using the URL parser for this though
  563. # [18:58] <annevk> zewt: can't we do better?
  564. # [18:58] <annevk> zewt: it's such a massive hack
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  568. # [19:10] <annevk> zewt: in other news, I committed a fix for that XHR thing
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  584. # [19:30] <GPHemsley> Thoughts on minifying?
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  605. # [20:18] <annevk> GPHemsley: what do you mean?
  606. # [20:18] <GPHemsley> annevk: Open request for opinions on the act of minifying for the Web.
  607. # [20:18] <annevk> But what is minifying?
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  609. # [20:20] <GPHemsley> Oh
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  611. # [20:21] <GPHemsley> The act of removine whitespace and other characters that aren't crucial to the execution of a file.
  612. # [20:21] <GPHemsley> (HTML/CSS/JS/etc.)
  613. # [20:21] <GPHemsley> s/removine/removing/
  614. # [20:22] <zewt> annevk: it doesn't necessarily have to be part of the parser as such
  615. # [20:22] <annevk> zewt: in my mental model either the parser touches the URL object, or it's touched much later on (e.g. during navigation or fetch)
  616. # [20:23] <annevk> (that'll become the platform model once I've written it all out)
  617. # [20:23] <zewt> could equivalently have a step after parsing eg. "if url is a blob URL, associate the underlying blob data with parsed url", it should just be something concise
  618. # [20:24] <zewt> or, could have a separate algorithm eg. "parse with blob association", which both calls the url parser (which would know nothing about blobs) and handles blob capture
  619. # [20:25] <zewt> annevk: not quite sure what you mean by touches
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  621. # [20:28] <zewt> (eg. not sure how navigation relates here)
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  623. # [20:33] <annevk> zewt: the URL is parsed at some point and then the URL object is stored somewhere until it's needed again (typically only when navigating or fetching)
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  629. # [20:41] <zewt> right
  630. # [20:41] <zewt> like XHR does now
  631. # [20:43] <zewt> the idea is that the blob data assocaited with the url (if any) is stashed in the URL object (and follows it around, ultimately to the fetch algorithm), but that doesn't necessarily have to live in the core url parse algorithm
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  633. # [20:48] <annevk> it wouldn't make sense for new URL() I think
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  635. # [20:50] <zewt> this wouldn't touch the user-visible URL object, it's only for specs to define when their API calls grab blobs associated with urls they receive
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  638. # [20:51] <zewt> eg. an XHR object would grab a reference to the blob when you call open(url), which is visible to scripts since the URL itself might be revoked by the time send() is called
  639. # [20:52] <annevk> sure sure
  640. # [20:52] <zewt> (just making sure we're talking about the same thing)
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  644. # [20:57] <zewt> so, having new URL() do this wouldn't be harmful (it wouldn't have any visible effects), but yeah, having something like "parse url with base, capturing blobs" be a nested algorithm probably makes sense
  645. # [20:59] <zewt> and new URL wouldn't use that (and the "capturing" algorithm might want to live in HTML, next to fetch, instead of in the url spec, since that's what it's for and so the url spec doesn't have to depend on file api)
  646. # [20:59] <zewt> (wow that was a terrible sentence)
  647. # [20:59] <annevk> HTML fetch will move to Fetch
  648. # [20:59] <annevk> dunno about the File API stuff, maybe that'll move to Fetch too
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  650. # [21:01] <annevk> Man, banks close early :/
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  656. # [21:07] <zewt> it's what they do
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  681. # [22:06] <annevk> tobie: if you use OH, don't attribute it ;-)
  682. # [22:06] <annevk> tobie: or alternatively, if you attribute a quote, don't OH it
  683. # [22:06] <annevk> or maybe it doesn't matter
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The end :)