/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-04-04 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Apr 04 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  5. # [00:01] <Hixie_> "an operation that is ongoing, has yet to start, or has completed"
  6. # [00:01] <Hixie_> because "an operation" would be too brief? :-P
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  8. # [00:02] <TabAtkins> It's calling out all the cases specifically because events only handle one of those (or two, if you count multiple events as handling an "ongoing" operation).
  9. # [00:02] <astearns> perhaps it omits operations that are taking a nap
  10. # [00:03] <Hixie_> TabAtkins: yeah, i would have written it the same way, i'm just teasing :-P
  11. # [00:03] <Hixie_> is there a tutorial for futures?
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  13. # [00:03] <Hixie_> it's not entirely clear from the spec how it's envisaged to be used by APIs
  14. # [00:03] <TabAtkins> Closest is https://github.com/slightlyoff/DOMFuture
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  18. # [00:04] <TabAtkins> But I'm trying to write up some API-design guidance for futures vs events vs lightweight events vs whatever.
  19. # [00:04] <TabAtkins> And I'll throw some pull requests at DOM to add fluff explanatory text.
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  21. # [00:08] <Hixie_> thanks, the examples at the bottom of that page are helpful
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  97. # [02:35] <a-ja> tantek: was your recent html5/uF2 talk recorded/published?
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  99. # [02:38] <a-ja> tantek: n/m....just found the slides
  100. # [02:38] <tantek> yes - they'll have video in a couple of weeks
  101. # [02:42] <a-ja> tantek: cool...tks
  102. # [02:44] <a-ja> tantek: btw....bad link to uF2 page on slide 38
  103. # [02:44] <tantek> a-ja - thanks - will take a look at it
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  115. # [03:18] <tantek> a-ja link fixed. thanks again.
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  117. # [03:19] <a-ja> np
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  292. # [10:48] <darobin> jgraham, odinho, tobie, Ms2ger: should we coordinate the webapps move somehow?
  293. # [10:48] <darobin> the thing I'm not sure about is how to preserve history — I hear there may be a trick with sub-tree merges but I'm unclear on the details
  294. # [10:48] <tobie> whereby coordinate you mean: someone _actually_ does it?
  295. # [10:48] <Ms2ger> I know you can do it with hg ;)
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  298. # [10:49] <darobin> tobie: well, right now it's one huge lump of a task
  299. # [10:49] <darobin> I was hoping that if we put just a few details together, such as how it would actually work, then it can be carved up into smaller bits
  300. # [10:50] <darobin> that people can actually JFD
  301. # [10:50] <Ms2ger> I think the main part is getting the existing history into the git repo
  302. # [10:50] * Ms2ger googles
  303. # [10:50] * darobin reads up on subtree merging
  304. # [10:51] <tobie> I'm out next week and busy until friday
  305. # [10:51] * Joins: nonge_ (~nonge@p5082B49A.dip.t-dialin.net)
  306. # [10:51] <tobie> so you can't really count on me.
  307. # [10:51] <Ms2ger> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1425892/how-do-you-merge-two-git-repositories ?
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  310. # [10:53] <darobin> the magic is detailed here http://git-scm.com/book/ch6-7.html
  311. # [10:54] <darobin> yeah, it looks like git subtree is just porcelain atop subtree merging
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  314. # [10:59] <darobin> ok, let me run a trial on one of the test suites
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  316. # [11:00] <darobin> so there are two steps here: getting the stuff into git, and then moving it around properly
  317. # [11:00] <darobin> I'll do the first part
  318. # [11:01] <darobin> importing into old-tests I guess
  319. # [11:01] <darobin> and then we can work on moving things piece by piece
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  321. # [11:08] <asmodai> Mmm, nice news on Blink. Anything that reduces complexity and maintenance headaches is a good effort.
  322. # [11:09] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@2.31.21.126) (Remote host closed the connection)
  323. # [11:09] <darobin> "added 1080 changesets with 6106 changes to 2867 files"
  324. # [11:15] <odinho> darobin: Yeah, creating a git repo is def step one.
  325. # [11:16] <odinho> But it would also be possible to move all the history over as a rebase-onto in that way.
  326. # [11:16] <odinho> I do not think it particulary smart to change history/sha's that already exist for web-platform-tests.
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  329. # [11:17] <darobin> odinho: I think the subtree merge does change history
  330. # [11:17] <odinho> Oh, well, a merge will do as well.
  331. # [11:17] <darobin> it just adds history from another branch
  332. # [11:18] <darobin> heh, saw your comment too late...
  333. # [11:18] <odinho> darobin: That doesn't make sense what you said
  334. # [11:18] <odinho> a "not" missing somewhere?
  335. # [11:18] <darobin> odinho: I've added the hg repo as a remote, and tracking it in a branch
  336. # [11:18] <darobin> odinho: yes! now you have to guess where :)
  337. # [11:19] <darobin> a subtree merge does NOT change history
  338. # [11:19] <odinho> Okay.
  339. # [11:19] <Ms2ger> I'd hope not :)
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  341. # [11:19] <darobin> odinho: and now I've read the tree from that branch into the master branch
  342. # [11:19] <darobin> but in a subdir
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  344. # [11:22] <darobin> okay, well, we have the files
  345. # [11:23] <odinho> :-)
  346. # [11:23] <darobin> it looks like the history is there but you need to know to look for it in the branch rather than in the merge :-/
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  349. # [11:23] <darobin> ah well, we *have* the history
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  351. # [11:23] <darobin> git is just not being exceedingly friendly in exposing it
  352. # [11:23] <odinho> It does it in the most obvious way :-)
  353. # [11:24] <Ms2ger> darobin, did you add a todo list?
  354. # [11:24] <odinho> Well, making a linear list of a graph is not really something you can do too obvious to everyone.
  355. # [11:25] <darobin> odinho: yeah, someone did that to me once and I wasn't really happy
  356. # [11:25] <darobin> Ms2ger: a todo list?
  357. # [11:25] <darobin> you mean of things to move?
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  359. # [11:26] <Ms2ger> Yeah
  360. # [11:26] <darobin> well
  361. # [11:26] <Ms2ger> We had something like that for html, no?
  362. # [11:26] <darobin> did we? oh yes we did
  363. # [11:26] <darobin> it was the file that would conflict all the time :)
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  365. # [11:27] <Ms2ger> :D
  366. # [11:27] <darobin> let me first announce the move to webapps
  367. # [11:27] <darobin> in theory we can track and pull changes made in hg, in practice I'd rather not do too much of that
  368. # [11:27] <darobin> Ms2ger: I reckon that for the todo splitting we could use the wiki
  369. # [11:27] <darobin> if you want to start listing that please just do so
  370. # [11:28] <odinho> darobin: So, pushed a branch to look at?
  371. # [11:28] <Ms2ger> Eh, wiki
  372. # [11:28] <Ms2ger> I'm no tantek
  373. # [11:28] <darobin> Ms2ger: yeah I hate those too
  374. # [11:28] <Ms2ger> Etherpad, maybe? :)
  375. # [11:28] <darobin> wfm!
  376. # [11:28] <darobin> odinho: you mean, err, master?
  377. # [11:28] <darobin> odinho: two things, really
  378. # [11:29] <odinho> Ah, you just did a push
  379. # [11:29] <darobin> in master, the files are under old-tests/webapps
  380. # [11:29] <darobin> and there's a webapps_import branch
  381. # [11:29] <darobin> that one is tracking the hg repo as a remote
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  383. # [11:29] <odinho> Ah. Folder. Okay.
  384. # [11:30] <darobin> odinho: step 2 is moving things to the right places :)
  385. # [11:31] <odinho> ... Hmmm. The old-tests doesn't seem to have any history.
  386. # [11:31] <odinho> In GitHub
  387. # [11:32] <Ms2ger> <darobin> ah well, we *have* the history
  388. # [11:32] <Ms2ger> <darobin> git is just not being exceedingly friendly in exposing it
  389. # [11:32] <odinho> Git would show it
  390. # [11:32] <odinho> If it was there
  391. # [11:32] <darobin> odinho: yeah, I don't understand how that works
  392. # [11:33] <odinho> Lemme check it out instead of using github
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  394. # [11:34] <darobin> odinho: I think the problem is that git knows there's a link between that subdir and the original repo, but the history is not showing it for files
  395. # [11:36] <darobin> maybe I can do this again with another strategy
  396. # [11:36] <odinho> Nope, no history there. Yes.
  397. # [11:36] <odinho> It needs another strategy.
  398. # [11:37] * Quits: richt_ (~richt@prod06.pvpn.lon.witopia.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  399. # [11:38] <odinho> A simple git merge does the trick.
  400. # [11:38] <odinho> However, -- you're getting everything at the same level then.
  401. # [11:38] <odinho> But it's mostly what it should be anyway. Any cleanup could always be done afterwards :-)
  402. # [11:38] * Quits: richt (~richt@222.233.254.208) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  403. # [11:38] <odinho> Or the next commit could be a "move these folders into old-webapps or old-tests/webapps/".
  404. # [11:39] <darobin> odinho: sorry, I don't get what you're saying
  405. # [11:39] <darobin> oh
  406. # [11:39] <darobin> you mean just merge the branch
  407. # [11:39] <odinho> We should remove the huge commit you did from history.
  408. # [11:39] <odinho> Yes.
  409. # [11:39] <Ms2ger> Ping me when you're ready :)
  410. # [11:39] <darobin> Ms2ger: will do :)
  411. # [11:40] <darobin> odinho: first, I'll remove the current stuff — it's actually not *really* a huge commit since the webapps_import branch already had all the data :)
  412. # [11:42] * Guest31029 is now known as Garbee
  413. # [11:42] <odinho> Yeah, git will reuse it.
  414. # [11:42] <odinho> But imma lunch!
  415. # [11:44] * darobin gives an apple to Eris before merging
  416. # [11:45] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  417. # [11:45] <Ms2ger> Is that some metaphor I don't understand?
  418. # [11:46] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Client Quit)
  419. # [11:47] <darobin> Ms2ger: Eris is the goddess of the internet
  420. # [11:47] <darobin> ok, I don't actually need to put this in old-tests, we can simply clean up the directories one by one
  421. # [11:48] <Ms2ger> She's a cat?
  422. # [11:48] <darobin> surprisingly, no
  423. # [11:50] <darobin> Ms2ger: here's the list https://etherpad.mozilla.org/yqT83Y2hPm
  424. # [11:51] <darobin> and it's committed
  425. # [11:51] <darobin> I propose this:
  426. # [11:52] <darobin> we remove whatever useless depth there is in the testing directory structure
  427. # [11:52] <darobin> then anything under approved we move to the root
  428. # [11:52] <darobin> and anything in submitted is in a "submitted" directory at the root, and that can be turned into PRs later
  429. # [11:52] <darobin> (the rest doesn't need that)
  430. # [11:53] <darobin> oh, and remove widgets?
  431. # [11:53] <Ms2ger> sgtm
  432. # [11:53] <darobin> yeah, remove widgets
  433. # [11:54] <Ms2ger> I'll be there in a bit
  434. # [11:54] <Ms2ger> knobgobbler?
  435. # [11:55] <jgraham> I was wondering the same
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  437. # [12:02] <annevk> darobin++
  438. # [12:03] <annevk> darobin: I was kind of sceptical of your move to become HTML5 editor, but it seems you're allocating your time to do a great amount of good instead, awesome!
  439. # [12:03] <darobin> annevk: :)
  440. # [12:04] <darobin> annevk: the way I saw it is that if there's funding to do useful stuff, it should be taken
  441. # [12:05] * abstractj|away is now known as abstractj
  442. # [12:06] <darobin> dear me, this webapps directory structure is tiresome
  443. # [12:08] * darobin wishes etherpad could be in monospace
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  447. # [12:20] <hsivonen> Gruber's posts about Blink are remarkably lacking obvious anti-Google pro-WebKit-monoculture sentiment https://daringfireball.net/
  448. # [12:21] <gsnedders> Time for me to write up some slightly less gut thoughts a day after the fact, I think.
  449. # [12:22] <odinho> Ms2ger, darobin: Sounds good. Have any of you commited any of it?
  450. # [12:22] <annevk> hsivonen: It reads more like he's whoa and doesn't know how the world turns anymore with respect to that particular subject
  451. # [12:22] <Ms2ger> odinho, darobin's been committing, I'm working on DOM
  452. # [12:23] <annevk> hsivonen: Though the Servo post he made still made it seem he believes Gecko to have been obsoleted by WebKit...
  453. # [12:23] <odinho> Hmmm. So now I wonder wether the CfC was binding for webappsec as well.
  454. # [12:24] <darobin> odinho: see, you shouldn't have asked that question publicly
  455. # [12:24] <darobin> if you hadn't, you'd have been able to just move stuff and then go "Oh? Sorry, I thought it was binding for webappsec too" :)
  456. # [12:24] <darobin> odinho: I've been committing stuff, see #htmlt
  457. # [12:24] <darobin> ah, you're not there
  458. # [12:24] <darobin> lots of gitbot spam
  459. # [12:25] <odinho> Yeah, I ate a clue pill after I spammed the channel and just looked in the git repo :P
  460. # [12:25] <darobin> been making a bunch of PRs too
  461. # [12:25] <odinho> darobin: Fsck! I'm not as evilsmart as you :-/
  462. # [12:26] <darobin> odinho: the trick is to practice your evil laugh every morning
  463. # [12:27] <hsivonen> annevk: Gruber being dismissive of Mozilla is not news
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  472. # [12:42] <Ms2ger> Hmm, looks like Bert cleared out the www-style moderation queue
  473. # [12:44] <jgraham> darobin: Like that?
  474. # [12:44] <darobin> jgraham: ?
  475. # [12:44] <jgraham> 10:11 * darobin wishes etherpad could be in monospace
  476. # [12:45] <darobin> ah, odinho is back from lunch, so now I can go eat
  477. # [12:45] <darobin> jgraham: hey cool man, thanks! I tried to fix it but the Pad options thing gives me a broken UI
  478. # [12:45] <jgraham> Presto ftw?
  479. # [12:45] <darobin> oh, I see what you did man
  480. # [12:46] <Ms2ger> What's Presto?
  481. # [12:46] <darobin> well played
  482. # [12:46] <Ms2ger> Oh dear
  483. # [12:46] <darobin> lol, switch to monospace and watch as three geeks reflexively align their tab columns :)
  484. # [12:46] <Ms2ger> Let's see how long until someone complains about https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/90268bb52a0a44fbee196c99a5b55c0d6d37da62
  485. # [12:47] <darobin> Ms2ger: you mean the fast tracking?
  486. # [12:47] <Ms2ger> No, the test for isTrusted in the PE test suite
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  488. # [12:47] <darobin> oh *that*
  489. # [12:47] * darobin lives to be amused
  490. # [12:47] <darobin> anyway, lunch
  491. # [12:47] <Ms2ger> Enjoy
  492. # [12:48] <Ms2ger> Maybe then I can finally get my push in :)
  493. # [12:49] <odinho> lol
  494. # [12:49] <odinho> Hmf, my specs' first stage are super boring. moving IndexedDB/tests/submissions to IndexedDB/submissions. And can do the same for SSE.
  495. # [12:51] <odinho> 'git pull --rebase; git push' is my friend.
  496. # [12:52] <Ms2ger> Looks like I hung Firefox by running the DOM tests
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  500. # [12:54] <odinho> Sooo... The phase 2. When do we start on that? And how will that look? :] Making the changes into branches, and pull requests. But do you normally do any changes to e.g. file names then?
  501. # [12:54] <odinho> There will probably be lots of different styles etc.
  502. # [12:55] <odinho> And deciding whether the spec should have a section based numbering scheme should probably also be done at one stage.
  503. # [12:56] <Ms2ger> Oh, not running them
  504. # [12:56] <Ms2ger> Formatting the results
  505. # [12:58] <jgraham> Yeah, that can take a long time :(
  506. # [13:00] <Ms2ger> Especially if you include Aryeh's tests
  507. # [13:01] <jgraham> iirc it is possible to turn rendering the results off
  508. # [13:01] <jgraham> Makes quite a big difference for running in a regression harness
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  510. # [13:03] <odinho> Crazy Aryeh. The cause of many burned CPU-cycles :] But some truly awesome tests.
  511. # [13:03] <Ms2ger> Not in my test runner :)
  512. # [13:04] * jgraham wonders if he is supposed to read the spec when reviewing tests
  513. # [13:04] <odinho> ...? How else?
  514. # [13:04] * jgraham also wonders why people write code like func( argument)
  515. # [13:05] <odinho> With the space?
  516. # [13:05] <jgraham> odinho: Well mostly I am assuming that if these tests were really wrong someone would have noticed by running them :)
  517. # [13:05] <jgraham> With the space
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  519. # [13:10] <Ms2ger> People use the weirdest spacing
  520. # [13:11] <Ms2ger> To quote jwalden:
  521. # [13:11] <Ms2ger> "I've heard claims that there's some code in Mozilla that uses 1-space, 1-space, 2-space, 3-space, 5-space, 8-space indentation, but I think they're fibbing"
  522. # [13:13] <darobin> odinho: I wouldn't worry too much about getting everything right at once
  523. # [13:14] <Ms2ger> Back already?
  524. # [13:14] <darobin> so for instance, I've made PRs based on the submissions without touching them (too much), on the grounds that if they're reviewed we can easily rename things
  525. # [13:14] <Ms2ger> You're not a real Frenchie, then
  526. # [13:14] <darobin> Ms2ger: I get to pick nationalities :)
  527. # [13:15] <Ms2ger> Hmm?
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  529. # [13:15] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  530. # [13:15] <darobin> Ms2ger: I can be Australian when in a hurry
  531. # [13:16] <Ms2ger> Standing on your head?
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  533. # [13:17] * jernoble|afk is now known as jernoble
  534. # [13:17] <darobin> it can be surprisingly helpful
  535. # [13:17] <Ms2ger> So, actually
  536. # [13:17] <Ms2ger> http://w3c-test.org/web-platform-tests/master/WebStorage/storage_local_security.html is bogus, right?
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  539. # [13:22] <Ms2ger> darobin, so how have you been dealing with submissions?
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  543. # [13:24] <odinho> Okay.
  544. # [13:25] <odinho> Some branch names make no sense though. Because they say submission/NAMEOFCOMPANY
  545. # [13:25] <odinho> But it should rather be submission/NAMEOFCOMPANY/the-spec-or-what-change
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  547. # [13:27] <darobin> Ms2ger: I just beat them into it with a bullwhip
  548. # [13:28] <darobin> oh, sorry, wrong channel
  549. # [13:28] <darobin> Ms2ger: create submission/spec-submitter branch; move the files to the root; commit; push the branch; make PR
  550. # [13:29] <darobin> odinho: yeah submission/COMPANY comes from when it was only HTML in there
  551. # [13:29] <Ms2ger> Got a command for that first step?
  552. # [13:31] <darobin> git checkout -b nameOfBranch
  553. # [13:31] <darobin> then
  554. # [13:31] <darobin> git mv whatever
  555. # [13:32] <darobin> git commit whatever
  556. # [13:32] <darobin> git push origin nameOfBranch
  557. # [13:36] <Ms2ger> darobin, that seems to have worked... Now, what do I do for the next submission for this spec?
  558. # [13:37] <Ms2ger> And someone give annevk a critic account
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  560. # [13:37] <Ms2ger> jgraham, maybe
  561. # [13:37] <darobin> Ms2ger: git checkout master to return to master, then do the same again
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  566. # [13:41] <sangwhan_> Ms2ger: I've seen something from Mozilla with quite interesting indentation "rules" although I'd prefer to not say what since it might as well be a mistake in which case it might be nice (blame version control)
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  570. # [13:47] <odinho> Hmmmm... Should I keep the event-source version history from git or noot...
  571. # [13:47] <jgraham> Seems plh is to blame for this code style
  572. # [13:47] <jgraham> I wonder if I should bother complaining about trailing whitespace
  573. # [13:47] <odinho> Problem is that it will show up in the review. Hm. Guess it's better to keep it in, right?
  574. # [13:47] <jgraham> M-x delete-trailing-whitespace should fix
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  576. # [13:48] <jgraham> odinho: Hmm? No problem with having history. But no problem with squashing one logical change into a single commit either
  577. # [13:48] <jgraham> It depends what the history is
  578. # [13:51] <odinho> Just where we got the pull requests from. Which I wanted to keep.
  579. # [13:51] <odinho> But the ugly commits are the moving commits :-)
  580. # [13:52] <odinho> Anyway. Soeh. How would I do a nice assert_not_exists()-replacement, assert_equals(e.data, undefined, 'data should not exist')? Any better way? Getting rustey.
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  583. # [13:53] <darobin> mmm, we're using different conventions for branch naming, but I'm guessing that doesn't matter
  584. # [13:54] <odinho> Luckily submissions/opera/ folder is not taken, so I can use that :]
  585. # [13:55] <odinho> I mean branch folder here
  586. # [13:55] <odinho> In case anyone got worried
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  588. # [13:57] <sangwhan_> It is quite interesting how most version control handles renaming/moving to another path in a +191984/-191984 way
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  590. # [13:59] <odinho> Good it's not +191984/-191985
  591. # [14:00] <sangwhan_> I've had my unfortunate incidents of clicking on one of those on a GUI. Not recommended.
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  593. # [14:01] <odinho> guess assert_false(e.hasOwnProperty('data')) is better
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  595. # [14:06] <odinho> There are three submission folders in Git, which one do we use? :-(((( submission/ submissions/ subsmission/
  596. # [14:06] <odinho> I'll bet on submission/
  597. # [14:07] <Ms2ger> Nah, subsmission/
  598. # [14:08] <sangwhan_> Is there any specs defining UIEvent outside of DOM2/DOM3?
  599. # [14:08] <sangwhan_> s/Is/Are/
  600. # [14:08] <Ms2ger> Travis's new thing?
  601. # [14:08] <Ms2ger> But no serious spec
  602. # [14:09] <odinho> I have no idea what IndieUI is doing, but they were doing something input something event something.
  603. # [14:10] <sangwhan_> IndieUI doesn't define core events, it's something way more high level
  604. # [14:10] <odinho> Ms2ger: Okay, I'll go on and create subsmissions/ then, so we can start fresh.
  605. # [14:10] <odinho> sangwhan_: And I did'nt still there was no untruth in what I said! :D
  606. # [14:11] <sangwhan_> odinho: :)
  607. # [14:11] <sangwhan_> Ms2ger: Travis' new thing being this? http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/DOM-Level-3-Events/html/DOM3-Events.html
  608. # [14:11] <odinho> I understood what I meant with that last sentence, although I'm not able to read it and comprehend it now.
  609. # [14:11] <Ms2ger> sangwhan_, no, that's Travis's old thing :)
  610. # [14:12] * sangwhan_ was hoping that wasn't the new thing
  611. # [14:14] <Ms2ger> I don't recall where the new thing is
  612. # [14:15] <sangwhan_> Can't find it. Google isn't helping either. Wonder if it's because it's a Microsoft driven spec and conspiracy.
  613. # [14:15] * sangwhan_ sees DOM3E dating back to 2000 though
  614. # [14:15] <Ms2ger> Check his recentish emails to www-dom? :)
  615. # [14:20] <sangwhan_> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/d4e/raw-file/tip/source_respec.htm
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  629. # [14:30] <Ms2ger> error: 'refs/heads/submission/Mozilla' exists; cannot create 'refs/heads/submission/Mozilla/DOMEvents'
  630. # [14:30] <Ms2ger> Halp
  631. # [14:33] * jernoble is now known as jernoble|afk
  632. # [14:33] * jernoble|afk is now known as jernoble
  633. # [14:36] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Pick a different branch name that doesn't start Mozilla/
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  635. # [14:36] <jgraham> It seems that someone created a branch called Mozilla
  636. # [14:36] <Ms2ger> I'll call it Blink
  637. # [14:36] <jgraham> (based on the error message)
  638. # [14:36] <jgraham> (not on looking at the repo or anything)
  639. # [14:37] <Ms2ger> So how do I rename this branch?
  640. # [14:39] <annevk> mounir: you're so productive when I'm not in the office
  641. # [14:41] <mounir> annevk: not that related... that's because I need to do stuff for sysapps
  642. # [14:42] <mounir> so I do everything I can but that ;)
  643. # [14:46] <Ms2ger> Going to leave the remainder to y'all
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  646. # [14:53] <annevk> mounir: hehe
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  648. # [15:00] <odinho> Ms2ger: To rename, you can just create a new one. Although it'd be nice to delete the upstream submission/Mozilla unless it's already in a PR. But yea.
  649. # [15:01] <odinho> so, in a command, that could be: git checkout -b /submission/Mozilla2/DOMEvents
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  652. # [15:02] <darobin_> odinho: the original one is likely in a PR
  653. # [15:02] <darobin_> as I said, it's from when there was only HTML in there,
  654. # [15:02] * darobin_ is now known as darobin
  655. # [15:03] <odinho> It's not really like HTML is only a single thing either though. And that Mozilla would ever only contribute one specific testsuite to HTML spec :P
  656. # [15:04] <odinho> But it already being there is an obvious blocker to using it.
  657. # [15:04] <odinho> Might be able to use lowercase mozilla though :P
  658. # [15:05] <sangwhan_> darobin: Is return types looking strange in https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/6f2c52cd50f6/touchevents.html#methods a known issue?
  659. # [15:06] * sangwhan_ is now known as sangwhan
  660. # [15:06] <darobin> sangwhan: can you be a bit more specific please?
  661. # [15:06] <darobin> ah, I get it
  662. # [15:06] <darobin> mmmm
  663. # [15:07] <darobin> sangwhan: that's a bug
  664. # [15:07] <sangwhan> darobin: I assumed so, because I couldn't find a way to fix it in markup
  665. # [15:07] <darobin> you can't, I have to fix it at my end
  666. # [15:08] <sangwhan> I did something insane to work around it
  667. # [15:08] <darobin> https://github.com/darobin/respec/issues/185
  668. # [15:08] <darobin> I'm not sure I want to know
  669. # [15:08] <darobin> :)
  670. # [15:09] <darobin> I can fix that today or tomorrow
  671. # [15:09] <sangwhan> Let's put it this way, nobody will see it in the final spec :)
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  679. # [15:34] <darobin> sangwhan: are you cynthia on GH?
  680. # [15:34] <darobin> odinho: ok, the only two directories that still need work in the TS are yours :)
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  683. # [15:37] <odinho> Oh I have them locally.
  684. # [15:38] <darobin> odinho: you mean you have them done?
  685. # [15:41] <odinho> Bah thought so, but no, will do it :P I got sidetracked.
  686. # [15:42] <darobin> odinho: I'm not pressuring you :)
  687. # [15:42] <Ms2ger> odinho, git branch -m worked
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  697. # [15:55] <odinho> darobin, Ms2ger: Uhh, I see we actually do PR's on the moves.
  698. # [15:56] <odinho> I did it with mosquito as they would show up as new files, -- so that they work like a real pull. -- But seeing now the obvious downside is getting a disconnected history.
  699. # [15:56] <odinho> I'll only the PR's on the moves for the stuff in IndexedDB.
  700. # [15:56] * Joins: scott_gonzalez (~scott_gon@pool-72-95-27-9.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net)
  701. # [15:56] <Ms2ger> ... Keeping the history was kinda the point of this exercise
  702. # [15:56] * Joins: snowfox_ben (~benschaaf@50-77-199-197-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  703. # [15:57] <scott_gonzalez> TabAtkins: Is there a spec for CSS mixins or just variables?
  704. # [15:58] <darobin> odinho: sorry, what's the issue?
  705. # [15:58] <odinho> The history is there, it's disconnected.
  706. # [15:58] <darobin> normally git detects renames
  707. # [15:58] * Quits: nimbu (~Adium@173-228-123-12.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  708. # [15:58] <odinho> darobin: That I thought about how to clear the files from the repo, so that they wouldn't be cluttering up the space. :]
  709. # [15:58] <darobin> odinho: we only do PRs on the moves when they involve submissions
  710. # [15:58] * Joins: vcarbune (~vcarbune@188.26.163.3)
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  712. # [15:58] <odinho> Hmmm. I can actually just revert the delete commit.
  713. # [15:58] <jgraham> How/where is the error event defined
  714. # [15:58] <jgraham> ?
  715. # [15:59] <odinho> And then do a move request.
  716. # [15:59] <odinho> I'll do that
  717. # [15:59] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@host81-143-60-194.in-addr.btopenworld.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  718. # [15:59] <darobin> odinho: oh you mean you've deleted stuff from master and then readded in submissions?
  719. # [15:59] <odinho> darobin: Yep
  720. # [15:59] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
  721. # [15:59] <darobin> odinho: oh, yes, please don't do that :)
  722. # [15:59] <odinho> I was thinking "how to make a nice looking pull request"
  723. # [15:59] <darobin> let me put this in no uncertain terms
  724. # [16:00] <darobin> fuck nice looking
  725. # [16:00] <odinho> ^>^
  726. # [16:00] <darobin> between the all of us, we're good looking enough that our pull requests can be as ugly as the butt warts of Sauron
  727. # [16:00] * Quits: zdobersek (~zdobersek@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  728. # [16:01] * Joins: cying (~cying@c-98-210-23-47.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  729. # [16:03] <jgraham> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/webappapis.html#onerroreventhandler makes it sound an awful lot like addEventListener("error", function() {}) out not work
  730. # [16:03] <jgraham> *ought
  731. # [16:03] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@host81-143-60-194.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
  732. # [16:04] <sangwhan> darobin: Yes, cynthia is a stupid posix login that was made more than a decade ago that stuck
  733. # [16:04] * jgraham wonders wtf odinho is doing
  734. # [16:05] <jgraham> (forcing pushes to master is really bad. Please don't do it)
  735. # [16:05] <odinho> jgraham: WAT I was super quick!
  736. # [16:05] <odinho> How did you ever notice :|
  737. # [16:06] <darobin> odinho: the bot ratted you out
  738. # [16:06] * Quits: Badreddin (~Nur@189.192.155.69) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  739. # [16:06] <darobin> sangwhan: I was just wondering if the issue comment was from you :)
  740. # [16:06] <odinho> It was super evil, but I thought noone would notice since I was lightning quick at it :/
  741. # [16:06] <odinho> Damn those bots
  742. # [16:06] <jgraham> odinho: Yeah, and remember that critic updates as soon as you push
  743. # [16:06] <sangwhan> darobin: The answer would be yes :)
  744. # [16:06] <darobin> well, we noticed, but indeed it was fast
  745. # [16:07] <zcorpan> jgraham: you mean the name "OnErrorEventHandler"? or something else?
  746. # [16:07] <jgraham> zcorpan: I mean what says that addEventListener("error", ...) does anything?
  747. # [16:07] <zcorpan> jgraham: nothing. and it shouldn't work.
  748. # [16:08] <jgraham> So http://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/34 is wrong?
  749. # [16:08] <zcorpan> yes
  750. # [16:10] * sangwhan ooh, critic outside of opera. now that's something.
  751. # [16:10] * Quits: cying (~cying@c-98-210-23-47.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: cying)
  752. # [16:11] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@ad006026.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) (Quit: jdaggett)
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  754. # [16:15] * jernoble is now known as jernoble|afk
  755. # [16:15] * jernoble|afk is now known as jernoble
  756. # [16:18] <odinho> Hmm. The TTWF ones are a bit special. Because some of them extend opera's tests.
  757. # [16:18] <odinho> There will be conflicts. :P Ohwell.
  758. # [16:23] * Quits: edenc (~edenc@ash.insolide.net) (Changing host)
  759. # [16:23] * Joins: edenc (~edenc@shadowcat/edenc)
  760. # [16:26] <odinho> Yeh, starting to get a real visible backlog now.
  761. # [16:27] <odinho> Is døn
  762. # [16:27] * Ms2ger sighs at his inbox
  763. # [16:27] * odinho too
  764. # [16:27] <Ms2ger> And everything is assigned to me \o/
  765. # [16:28] <jgraham> And me!
  766. # [16:29] <Ms2ger> darobin, and it's not even my job
  767. # [16:29] <darobin> Ms2ger: technically it ain't mine either :)
  768. # [16:31] <jgraham> Technically it's no one's job
  769. # [16:31] <jgraham> and it's boring…
  770. # [16:32] <Ms2ger> Let's make annevk do it
  771. # [16:32] <annevk> My quota for boring stuff has been full for a while now, really time for someone else to start cracking
  772. # [16:33] <jgraham> Well I have done some review today
  773. # [16:33] <Ms2ger> sicking knows some XHR stuff, right?
  774. # [16:33] <odinho> Yeah, and IDB too
  775. # [16:34] <darobin> let's have sicking do it all!
  776. # [16:34] <Ms2ger> sgtm
  777. # [16:34] <odinho> that's decided then
  778. # [16:34] <Ms2ger> RESOLVED: annevk pesters sicking until he reviews all the XHR/IDB tests
  779. # [16:34] <odinho> Hmmm. To be honest.
  780. # [16:35] <odinho> I did get a review from Mozilla on the IDB tests.
  781. # [16:35] * Ms2ger hears odinho volunteer
  782. # [16:35] <odinho> So I need to fix that, -- and then they should really be reviewed.
  783. # [16:35] <odinho> I had a full RfR and everything, -- it was just that everything changed at that time ;-) And know you all know what.
  784. # [16:36] * Ms2ger mumbles about rfrs
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  786. # [16:37] <annevk> Ms2ger: apparently there's more of me these days: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/04/04/google_webkit_fork/
  787. # [16:38] <annevk> whole legions of van Kesterens making incorrect assumptions about Blink
  788. # [16:38] <Ms2ger> Unfortunately for van Kesteren, who may have briefly got her hopes up, ...
  789. # [16:38] <odinho> lol, "her"
  790. # [16:38] <odinho> You sound so much more sexy as a girl.
  791. # [16:38] <Ms2ger> I'm not sure why I still find that so funny
  792. # [16:39] <odinho> Former Opera coder even.
  793. # [16:39] <annevk> Shows what research journalists do
  794. # [16:40] <Ms2ger> You should sign everything as "Anne van Kesteren (Mr.)"
  795. # [16:40] <annevk> Ms. 2ger, I don't even...
  796. # [16:40] <darobin> rofl, great article annevk
  797. # [16:40] <odinho> Sir Anne van Kesteren
  798. # [16:41] * Quits: vcarbune (~vcarbune@188.26.163.3) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  799. # [16:41] <odinho> The Register is well known for bad research. Always lots of errors. :-)
  800. # [16:41] <gsnedders> odinho: Do the Dutch even give out knighthoods?
  801. # [16:41] <Ms2ger> annevk, but hey, at least Google listens to you
  802. # [16:41] <jgraham> Move to Germany and become Herr Dr van Kesteren
  803. # [16:42] <darobin> Ms2ger: well, I got the impression that Google didn't listen to annevk so much as to the Kesteren Family Council
  804. # [16:42] <darobin> oh, hey, serendipacronym
  805. # [16:42] <Ms2ger> KFC?
  806. # [16:43] <annevk> Ms2ger: well they have to, there's legions of us
  807. # [16:43] <darobin> besides, shouldn't the proper form be "all the Kesterens in the world" rather than "all the van Kesterens"?
  808. # [16:43] <odinho> gsnedders: He's in London now, stupid :-)
  809. # [16:43] <darobin> or is NL different from FR there?
  810. # [16:44] * Joins: dydx (~dydz@76-220-18-65.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  811. # [16:44] <gsnedders> odinho: Not relevant unless he becomes a British citizen
  812. # [16:44] <jgraham> We gave one to Bill Gates
  813. # [16:44] <darobin> actually I think that it can work for Commonwealth citizens, for acts performed on British territory
  814. # [16:45] <zcorpan> looks like the article has s/her/his/ now
  815. # [16:45] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@209.118.182.194)
  816. # [16:45] <Ms2ger> Sounds like they track this channel closely
  817. # [16:45] <darobin> ah, shame
  818. # [16:45] * Ms2ger waves
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  821. # [16:45] <Ms2ger> marcosc, oh, we removed all your widget tests
  822. # [16:45] <Ms2ger> marcosc, and good morning :)
  823. # [16:45] <gsnedders> He cannot use the title Sir, though, merely the honourary KBE.
  824. # [16:45] * Joins: danbri (~danbri@87.114.190.4)
  825. # [16:45] <marcosc> Ms2ger: is ok, I moved everything to Github last week
  826. # [16:45] <sangwhan> "The van Kesterens of the web" is a interesting remark
  827. # [16:46] <sangwhan> Are there any implementations of widgets left after Presto dropped the ball? EFLWebkit?
  828. # [16:46] <MikeSmith> Justin Schuh seems to really be going out of his way in this thread to avoid responding at all to othermaciej's point that "we directly asked Google folks if they would be willing to contribute their multiprocess support back to WebKit, so that we could build on it. They said no."
  829. # [16:46] <annevk> If you use it like that the v actually has to be uppercase, but I doubt anyone cares about that (though I do a bit)
  830. # [16:46] <gsnedders> sangwhan: Quite a few.
  831. # [16:46] <MikeSmith> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5490242
  832. # [16:47] <marcosc> Ms2ger: do you have more details of what got removed?
  833. # [16:47] <Ms2ger> marcosc, whatever was in the webapps repo
  834. # [16:47] <marcosc> Ms2ger: just in case I get emails
  835. # [16:47] <darobin> marcosc: all of widgets
  836. # [16:47] <darobin> marcosc: it's still in hg, it just got dropped in the move to gh
  837. # [16:48] <sangwhan> Wondering if pointer event and touch event tests should be dropped in there too or not
  838. # [16:49] <Ms2ger> Please don't put these touch event tests in my review queue
  839. # [16:49] <Ms2ger> If you want to ever see them again
  840. # [16:49] <marcosc> darobin: did all the specs also get deleted?
  841. # [16:50] <odinho> marcosc: Haven't you herd, we're all bout' them tests now, who needs specs when we've got tests?
  842. # [16:50] <marcosc> heh
  843. # [16:50] <sangwhan> Ms2ger: Any reason why? (apart from the fact that there are a *lot* of asserts IIRC)
  844. # [16:51] <odinho> marcosc: As far as I know, we're only messing up tests.
  845. # [16:51] <Ms2ger> sangwhan, you may want to read yesterday's #webapps logs
  846. # [16:51] * sangwhan isn't in the group (nor any important group) so will have to dig through the archive for minutes, BRB
  847. # [16:52] <marcosc> odinho: ok, sounds good to me.
  848. # [16:52] <annevk> I'm gonna use that from now on. "The Van Kesterens of this world, think you should use a future."
  849. # [16:52] <Ms2ger> The Van Kesterens of the netherworld suggest mutation events
  850. # [16:56] * Joins: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron)
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  853. # [16:57] <jgraham> Every time you use that line we will get TimBL to phone your brother for confirmation.
  854. # [16:59] * Quits: encryptd_fractal (~darkcyphe@san.space150.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  855. # [16:59] <MikeSmith> the Van Kesterens sound like one of the noble houses in Game of Thrones
  856. # [17:00] * Joins: ehsan_ (~ehsan@66.207.208.98)
  857. # [17:00] <darobin> marcosc: the specs weren't deleted unless they were in the webapps testing repo
  858. # [17:00] <darobin> we're not including specs in the TS anyway...
  859. # [17:01] <darobin> sangwhan: Ms2ger's comments about quality notwithstanding, anything that's meant to be in browsers should be in that repo
  860. # [17:02] * sangwhan is checking the tests (never looked at it underneath the hood)
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  862. # [17:03] * jernoble is now known as jernoble|afk
  863. # [17:03] * jernoble|afk is now known as jernoble
  864. # [17:03] <sangwhan> One thing I did find a bit disturbing is this tidbit: http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/wiki/TEv1ImplReport
  865. # [17:04] <sangwhan> Where depending on the implementation the amount of things that get tested are different, which I find quite misleading
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  868. # [17:05] <jgraham> That's terrible test writing
  869. # [17:05] <jgraham> Or terrrible something
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  872. # [17:07] <sangwhan> Yes on both
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  874. # [17:07] * SteveF_ is now known as SteveF
  875. # [17:07] <Ms2ger> sangwhan, you're involved there, right?
  876. # [17:08] <sangwhan> darobin: Ms2ger's points regarding the optional arguments make sense and should be addressed
  877. # [17:09] <sangwhan> Ms2ger: Yes, to some extent - I'm getting a bit passive in the involvement due to time constraints though
  878. # [17:09] <jgraham> We obviously need a test writing reviewing guide
  879. # [17:09] <jgraham> One that makes it clear that having variable numbers of tests is not OK
  880. # [17:10] <jgraham> and makes it even clearer that having a feature detection as the first test and then refusing to run the other tests is doubly not OK
  881. # [17:10] <darobin> sangwhan: oh yes, I fully agree with Ms2ger's points
  882. # [17:10] <darobin> I was just saying that tests for those specs should be included
  883. # [17:10] <darobin> (fixed is a separate matter)
  884. # [17:11] <darobin> jgraham: great idea, when will you be done? :)
  885. # [17:11] <darobin> it should also talk about testing for prefixed features, there's some amount of that going on
  886. # [17:12] <Ms2ger> Testing for their non-existence? :)
  887. # [17:13] <jgraham> How does "The 'do this or I will send Ms2ger round to your house with a bat' guide to writing testcases" sound?
  888. # [17:13] <Ms2ger> Eh
  889. # [17:13] <Ms2ger> You wouldn't need to send me
  890. # [17:14] <jgraham> Well not if they follow the guide!
  891. # [17:17] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs164155.pp.htv.fi)
  892. # [17:17] <sangwhan> I'll see if I can get the optional argument tests in there (and get time to do it, that's the harder part)
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  895. # [17:19] <sangwhan> As a off-topic question - any browser shipping *with* the assembly optimized helpers in OpenSSL for ARM?
  896. # [17:19] <sangwhan> darobin: Guess we should try to get the tests in there then
  897. # [17:20] * sangwhan wonders if there is any automation (Webdriver?) effort going on for the interactive web platform tests
  898. # [17:20] <darobin> sangwhan: if you want to volunteer, I can give you write-access to the repo
  899. # [17:20] <Ms2ger> darobin, which reminds me
  900. # [17:20] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-217-68-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  901. # [17:21] <Ms2ger> darobin, we should have a group that isn't called "HTML WG" to own the repo
  902. # [17:21] <darobin> all we ask is that you don't destroy history, and that you sync with your friends here or on #htmlt (or wherever really)
  903. # [17:21] <sangwhan> darobin: I can volunteer, don't expect results too soon though :)
  904. # [17:21] <darobin> sangwhan: ok, I'll add you to the team
  905. # [17:21] <darobin> Ms2ger: it's just a name
  906. # [17:21] <darobin> I'd rather not bikeshed, it's only administrative
  907. # [17:21] <Ms2ger> darobin, exactly, I don't like the name :)
  908. # [17:21] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  909. # [17:21] <darobin> besides, I so do love having you in the HTML WG
  910. # [17:22] <Ms2ger> Maybe I should leave it again and have you do merges ;)
  911. # [17:22] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  912. # [17:22] <darobin> sangwhan: you're in :)
  913. # [17:22] <darobin> Ms2ger: awww
  914. # [17:22] * sangwhan prepares to wreak havoc
  915. # [17:23] <sangwhan> darobin: Got the notifiation, thanks
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  918. # [17:27] <sangwhan> smaug____: I investigated a bit on how to implement UIEvent.deviceID (or whatever it may be eventually called), looks like a serious pain to implement
  919. # [17:27] * nimbu1 is now known as divya
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  921. # [17:29] <Ms2ger> darobin, yay :)
  922. # [17:30] <darobin> Ms2ger: :)
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  924. # [17:30] <smaug____> sangwhan: it can be tricky, yes, and in many cases it would be just some kind of default value, I could imagine
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  926. # [17:31] <TabAtkins> scott_gonzalez: Just variables. I haven't sold the WG on Mixins yet, though it would probably be a good idea for me to write it up soonish, just to have it there.
  927. # [17:32] <Ms2ger> TabAtkins, just don't dare to put it on dev.w3.org...
  928. # [17:33] <jgraham> Yay, CVS!
  929. # [17:34] <TabAtkins> MikeSmith: I wasn't involved with the discussions re: Apple using our multiprocess, but from my understanding, it was a lot less cut & dry than Maciej is selling it to be.
  930. # [17:34] <TabAtkins> MikeSmith: The fact that they went and made all the same mistakes that we initially did, and are gradually changing things over to the way we do things, suggests that part of the friction was them wanting to do something different than what we originally wanted.
  931. # [17:35] <darobin> gotta love how the second example from https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=15291 is someone using @pattern on input type=email
  932. # [17:35] <MikeSmith> TabAtkins: so that suggests there was some miscommunication I guess
  933. # [17:35] <sangwhan> CVS isn't that bad, but the layout of W3C's CVS is a bit ... interesting I must say
  934. # [17:35] <TabAtkins> Ms2ger: This was a blessing in disguise - it reminded me that I *should* be starting all my specs on GitHub under CC0.
  935. # [17:35] <MikeSmith> TabAtkins: because I don't think Maciej is intentionally trying to sell anything. Why would he be?
  936. # [17:36] <TabAtkins> I dunno.
  937. # [17:36] * jernoble is now known as jernoble|afk
  938. # [17:36] * jernoble|afk is now known as jernoble
  939. # [17:36] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
  940. # [17:37] <Ms2ger> dglazkov, good morning, and review your tests
  941. # [17:37] <dglazkov> okay
  942. # [17:38] <Ms2ger> :D
  943. # [17:39] <dglazkov> Ms2ger: love what you guys are doing with github migration
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  946. # [17:40] <Ms2ger> dglazkov, tell darobin that, I hate github :)
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  951. # [17:43] <darobin> dglazkov: glad you like it!
  952. # [17:43] <dglazkov> darobin: which button do I push? :)
  953. # [17:43] <darobin> dglazkov: note that we moved the shadow tests as part of that
  954. # [17:44] <darobin> dglazkov: take your pick, we have over 20!
  955. # [17:44] <dglazkov> https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/47?
  956. # [17:44] <darobin> dglazkov: that's the one
  957. # [17:44] <darobin> if you're confident that the tests are good, press the button
  958. # [17:44] <dglazkov> I only have the "Comment" button
  959. # [17:45] <darobin> ah
  960. # [17:45] <darobin> I can fix that
  961. # [17:45] <dglazkov> yay
  962. # [17:45] <darobin> dglazkov: what's your GH username?
  963. # [17:45] <darobin> it doesn't seem to be dglazkov
  964. # [17:46] <dglazkov> there totally is :-\
  965. # [17:46] <dglazkov> https://github.com/dglazkov
  966. # [17:46] <darobin> mmmmm
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  968. # [17:46] * darobin kicks the autocomplete box
  969. # [17:46] <darobin> dglazkov: reload
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  971. # [17:47] <dglazkov> http://i.imgur.com/XHEsR.jpg
  972. # [17:48] * sangwhan wonders what nat/google/x-ldqrrirqhnoeanad is
  973. # [17:48] <dglazkov> sangwhan: it's a thing. Not infectious though.
  974. # [17:50] * sangwhan blinks (oh wait)
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  979. # [17:57] <miketaylr> dglazkov: is there a better link for https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webcomponents/raw-file/tip/explainer/?
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  982. # [17:57] <tbranyen> i mean that one is pretty good, but something a little more concrete would be great
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  993. # [18:05] <tbranyen> oh yeah, i was being sarcastic
  994. # [18:05] <tbranyen> but if someone knows the right link for the WebComponents spec
  995. # [18:05] <tbranyen> that'd be thanks to be shared
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  999. # [18:08] <dglazkov> tbranyen: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webcomponents/raw-file/tip/explainer/index.html
  1000. # [18:08] * jernoble is now known as jernoble|afk
  1001. # [18:08] * jernoble|afk is now known as jernoble
  1002. # [18:08] <tbranyen> excellent thanks dglazkov
  1003. # [18:13] * abstractj is now known as abstractj|lunch
  1004. # [18:13] <Adawerk_> Is it ok to to do away with the <label for=""> if the text field has a placeholder and an aria-label attribute stating what it should be?
  1005. # [18:14] <TabAtkins> Sure.
  1006. # [18:14] <jgraham> I note that having a mix of alllower and InitialCaps names for directories is ugly
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  1010. # [18:15] <Adawerk_> TabAtkins: I figured so. Now that we're not supporting older browsers, I think this can be more effective.
  1011. # [18:15] <Adawerk_> thanks
  1012. # [18:16] <Ms2ger> Adawerk_, does it still let you click on the label to focus the field?
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  1014. # [18:16] <Adawerk_> I don't think so. That function will be gone if I rid of the label.
  1015. # [18:17] <Ms2ger> Oh
  1016. # [18:17] * Ms2ger misread
  1017. # [18:17] <Adawerk_> I may keep the labels for checkboxes/radio
  1018. # [18:17] <Adawerk_> well I'll need to keep them now that i think about it.
  1019. # [18:17] <Adawerk_> heh
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  1028. # [18:33] <darobin> dglazkov: thanks for reloading and shooting that one :)
  1029. # [18:33] <dglazkov> darobin: big gun. tiny brain. what could go wrong
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  1031. # [18:34] <darobin> nothing so long as we ensure it all happens in a room with the right targets :)
  1032. # [18:34] <dglazkov> darobin: a really small room.
  1033. # [18:35] <darobin> and if it doesn't work, add booze
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  1047. # [19:04] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: have we resolved on premultiplied or not for gradients?
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  1049. # [19:04] <SimonSapin> it seems cairo does non-premultiplied :(
  1050. # [19:04] * Ms2ger sniggers
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  1064. # [19:33] <jgraham> Really need dzenana-trenutak to join irc
  1065. # [19:34] <jgraham> Lots of http://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/47 must be dupliactes of Aryeh's stuff
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  1120. # [21:10] <paul_irish> does anyone recall discussions around "element queries" somewhere? i thought i remembered seeing some threads on it.. http://ianstormtaylor.com/media-queries-are-a-hack/
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  1152. # [21:42] <jgraham> paul_irish: That has been discussed. The problem is that it can create loops
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  1155. # [21:47] <eclipsevictim> does anyone have a "Best Practices" for IndexedDB's upgradeneeded event?
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  1176. # [22:21] <dgrogan> eclipsevictim: assuming google hasn't turned up anything useful, I'd suggest asking a more detailed question on stackoverflow, not here.
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  1180. # [22:30] <JonathanNeal> I like <sublime>
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  1183. # [22:32] <jsbell> eclipsevictim: I just added a basic example to the spec, but not re-versioning...
  1184. # [22:33] <jsbell> eclipsevictim: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndexedDB/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#introduction
  1185. # [22:34] <jsbell> eclipsevictim: I assume you'd find an example showing e.g. how to migrate from older versions helpful?
  1186. # [22:41] <eclipsevictim> preferably from 2 or more older versions
  1187. # [22:41] <eclipsevictim> yes
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  1189. # [22:42] <eclipsevictim> very helpful
  1190. # [22:42] <eclipsevictim> it would be, and much appreciated ...
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  1195. # [22:48] <jsbell> eclipsevictim: take another look at: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndexedDB/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#introduction
  1196. # [22:48] <jsbell> I added an example showing opening v3
  1197. # [22:49] <jsbell> It's a spec not a tutorial so it's brief, but hopefully that steers you in the right direction.
  1198. # [22:50] <jsbell> html5rocks.com has older examples with the old versioning API and webplatform.org doesn't have anything on IDB yet, alas.
  1199. # [22:50] <eclipsevictim> ok
  1200. # [22:50] <eclipsevictim> that'll do
  1201. # [22:50] <eclipsevictim> although it means that you (and the spec) think that the right thing to do is to rely on the db version field
  1202. # [22:51] <eclipsevictim> that's good enough for me as long as you're willing to have someone publish docs which say so :)
  1203. # [22:51] * jernoble is now known as jernoble|afk
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  1208. # [22:52] <jsbell> Yep, well, that's how the feature was designed to be used. Of course you could come up with some alternate scheme but then the API isn't helping you.
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  1210. # [22:55] <eclipsevictim> if that's the design, i'm quite happy w/ it
  1211. # [22:55] <eclipsevictim> the guy who asked me didn't see any way to get the old version
  1212. # [22:55] <eclipsevictim> which your example resolves nicely :)
  1213. # [22:56] <eclipsevictim> OH
  1214. # [22:56] <eclipsevictim> one thing that really bugs me
  1215. # [22:56] <jsbell> cool. :) Yeah, versioning is confusing at the best of times and IDB's API change just as people were starting to experiment with it didn't help. :P
  1216. # [22:56] <eclipsevictim> i can't find a way to link to IDBVersionChangeEventInit
  1217. # [22:56] <eclipsevictim> i can link to options-object-concept
  1218. # [22:56] <eclipsevictim> but that's lame
  1219. # [22:57] <eclipsevictim> i suspect that in principle i should make this complaint about all of your object definitions
  1220. # [22:57] <eclipsevictim> (and i should be nice and send it as email so that i can be credited w/ the complaint, to show i'm a good citizen, but oh well)
  1221. # [22:57] <jsbell> Yeah, I think that's a bug in ReSpec.js at the moment...
  1222. # [22:57] <eclipsevictim> ok
  1223. # [22:58] <jsbell> types (both internal/external) aren't turning into links correctly. I have mail to Robin about that.
  1224. # [22:58] <jsbell> Hopefully he'll get that fixed and we'll publish a new WD by the end of this month.
  1225. # [22:59] * eclipsevictim nods
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  1227. # [22:59] <eclipsevictim> anyway, thanks, you've cleared a work item i meant to ask about a few weeks back (it got buried, and then i took a vacation)
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  1264. # [23:46] <smaug____> how do I file bugs on DAP WG's specs
  1265. # [23:47] <smaug____> mailing list only?
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The end :)