/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-04-11 / end

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  180. # [07:29] <annevk> Hixie: so the DOMTokenList story is I think that I did tell you about a change, but that I wanted to wait with filing bugs on HTML until someone had attempted to implement the changes we made for DOM
  181. # [07:30] <annevk> Hixie: let me dig up the trail
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  183. # [07:32] <annevk> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20105
  184. # [07:33] <annevk> But that's not the big one
  185. # [07:34] <annevk> Hixie: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20104#c4 is the one
  186. # [07:34] <annevk> Hixie: I did add you to the cc, but maybe that's not good enough these days?
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  227. # [09:20] <jgraham> annevk: Just for you critic is now https
  228. # [09:21] <annevk> aw man, now I might have to start using it
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  231. # [09:30] <asmodai> in HTML5, <label> and form controls are a 1:1 mapping, right (as opposed to HTML4's N:1 mapping)? I mean, unless I missed some part of the spec
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  241. # [09:52] <zcorpan> asmodai: a form control can have 0 or more labels, a label can have 0 or 1 form control
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  243. # [09:53] <zcorpan> asmodai: also see http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/forms.html#dom-lfe-labels
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  246. # [09:57] <jgraham> So where's darobin hiding?
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  249. # [10:03] <asmodai> zcorpan: *nod* thanks. Now I wonder why this designer thinks he can apply a <label> to a <ul> of <input "radio">s.
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  310. # [13:24] <hsivonen> on Linux x86_64, my local clang opt build fails with symbol "isascii" missing when linking WebRTC STUN stuff. known problem?
  311. # [13:25] <hsivonen> apparently yes: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=860222
  312. # [13:26] <hsivonen> doh. wrong channel. sorry.
  313. # [13:26] <Ms2ger> Yep
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  317. # [13:30] <jgraham> darobin: (I have to run now, but see my email to public-test-infra)
  318. # [13:31] <darobin> jgraham: ok, just arriving now, but I'll look!
  319. # [13:33] <Ms2ger> annevk, there's some critic reviews I'd love you to have a look at ;)
  320. # [13:33] <annevk> Ms2ger: I can have a look now if you want. PointeR?
  321. # [13:33] <annevk> darobin: I setup a hook from the repo
  322. # [13:34] <Ms2ger> https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/27, 28, 29
  323. # [13:34] <darobin> annevk: ok, great
  324. # [13:34] <annevk> darobin: is your GH account darobin too? I can add you to WHATWG
  325. # [13:34] <darobin> annevk: yes it is, ok, I'll try not to replace the logo with W3C's ;)
  326. # [13:34] <annevk> heh
  327. # [13:34] <darobin> annevk: the sync didn't work last night when I left, but it was likely a problem of MX record propagation so I need to test again now
  328. # [13:35] <darobin> in any case it'll work soon
  329. # [13:35] <annevk> k
  330. # [13:35] <Ms2ger> zcorpan, thanks for the link yesterday
  331. # [13:35] <annevk> you're added as admin
  332. # [13:35] <annevk> we don't really have groups
  333. # [13:35] <Ms2ger> Hmm
  334. # [13:35] <darobin> cool, thanks
  335. # [13:35] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: np
  336. # [13:35] <Ms2ger> Does that mean darobin gets to tweet as @WHATWG too?
  337. # [13:35] <darobin> I don't think the tweeting is handled through GitHub :)
  338. # [13:36] <annevk> Ms2ger: yeah I guess, if he wanted
  339. # [13:36] <Ms2ger> You'd be surprised
  340. # [13:36] <darobin> hehehe
  341. # [13:36] <annevk> but our policy for @WHATWG is that anyone can tweet from it as long as it's not spam so that's not a problem
  342. # [13:36] <darobin> I can tweet from @w3c as well
  343. # [13:37] <darobin> so I could wreak total havok and then move on to some other career
  344. # [13:37] <annevk> Ms2ger: lots of tests
  345. # [13:37] <annevk> Ms2ger: what kind of quality are we looking for?
  346. # [13:38] <annevk> e.g. "XMLHttpRequest L2" seems wrong for <title>
  347. # [13:39] <Ms2ger> Mainly correctness, but feel free to complain about things like that too
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  351. # [13:50] <annevk> I can't do 28 I think. I wrote a lot of those tests.
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  353. # [13:50] <annevk> Though they've been reviewed before.
  354. # [13:51] <Ms2ger> At Opera, or?
  355. # [13:51] <annevk> And there's some issues with the auth-related tests.
  356. # [13:51] <annevk> Ms2ger: yeah, though also by WebApps at times, it's been through a lot of iteration
  357. # [13:53] <Ms2ger> darobin, do you remember what policy we ended up with in the thread about internally-reviewed tests?
  358. # [13:55] <annevk> ooh, the <link rel=help> stuff is no good
  359. # [13:57] <annevk> dunno have someone else look at that I suppose
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  361. # [13:58] <annevk> ooh man that thing generates email
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  364. # [13:59] <annevk> lunch
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  369. # [14:09] <darobin> Ms2ger: IIRC we said anyone could review the tests except the person who wrote them
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  372. # [14:18] <hsivonen> for an interesting way of speccing things, check out the character-based limits on UTF-8 data in http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5389#section-15.7
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  385. # [14:51] <annevk> ooh that's the WebRTC stuff
  386. # [14:51] <annevk> I wonder why there's so much more complexity than before
  387. # [14:52] * Ms2ger blames Google
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  402. # [15:16] <hsivonen> annevk: a big factor in the complexity is the use of UDP and the UDP-hostility of middle boxes
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  414. # [15:58] <gsnedders> Anyone got AAA swapped in? Give an example that hits the "…but the element is not in scope" case in step 4?
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  466. # [16:51] <darobin> 'Since there are so many opportunities for the UA to just say "fuck it"' -- I love it when annevk gets technical
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  468. # [16:53] <annevk> heh
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  471. # [16:55] <hsivonen> darobin: context?
  472. # [16:55] <darobin> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0017.html
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  480. # [17:01] <hsivonen> SimonSapin: did you have a Rust impl of the Encoding Standard?
  481. # [17:01] <hsivonen> SimonSapin: someone's asking about converters on rust-dev
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  483. # [17:02] <SimonSapin> hsivonen: not really, yet
  484. # [17:03] <SimonSapin> I have something very incomplete, that I wouldn’t recommend anybody uses
  485. # [17:03] <gsnedders> I'm confused, why is cover (in Python) not picking up code-coverage of html5lib.treebuilders.dom? It's definitely running!
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  487. # [17:04] <annevk> hsivonen: if you're on that list can you email a pointer to the Encoding Standard? so we'll get the right thing implemented
  488. # [17:04] <SimonSapin> I’ll do it
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  493. # [17:09] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
  494. # [17:15] <hsivonen> SimonSapin: thanks
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  507. # [17:28] <SimonSapin> annevk, hsivonen: sent. https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-April/003575.html
  508. # [17:29] <annevk> yeah I don't think we'd ever want that separate API
  509. # [17:30] <annevk> furthering bullshit encodings should be a non-goal
  510. # [17:31] <SimonSapin> annevk: My point is: if someone wants UTF-32 in a Rust libstd, unrelated to the web, is should be separated to what eg. Servo will use
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  540. # [18:09] <SimonSapin> It’s unfortunate that 'green' is rgb(0, 128, 0) rather than rgb(0%, 50%, 0%)
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  542. # [18:10] <SimonSapin> (128 being 0.50196%, because 100% is 255, not 256.)
  543. # [18:10] <SimonSapin> makes testing suck
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  549. # [18:20] <annevk> jgraham: so what did you change in that review?
  550. # [18:20] <annevk> jgraham: I find critic so incomprehensible
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  553. # [18:23] <jgraham> I marked the deleted files as reviewed
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  555. # [18:23] <jgraham> If you reviewed the other files you should tick next to the ones that you reviewed (even if there were issues, as long as you finished marking all the issues)
  556. # [18:23] <jgraham> and press submit
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  558. # [18:24] <annevk> tick where?
  559. # [18:25] <jgraham> https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/33e7bba0?review=29 under where it says "Reviewed"
  560. # [18:25] <jgraham> (to the left of the file names)
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  562. # [18:25] <annevk> no effect
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  564. # [18:27] <annevk> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-mediaont-api-1.0-20130411/#example-in-javascript-23 are you fucking kidding me?
  565. # [18:28] <annevk> this API is sooo bad :-(
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  567. # [18:28] <jgraham> annevk: Oh, you marked yourself as a watcher on the review. To review stuff you need to be a reviewer
  568. # [18:28] <annevk> I did not do shit
  569. # [18:28] <jgraham> I added you as one for this review, but you should adjust your filters
  570. # [18:28] <annevk> I just followed some links
  571. # [18:28] <jgraham> Oh, well maybe commenting auto-adds you as a watcher
  572. # [18:29] <jgraham> Anyway you are now a reviewer
  573. # [18:29] <jgraham> For that review
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  576. # [18:30] <annevk> I see, thanks
  577. # [18:30] <jgraham> To fix in general go to https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/home?repository=10 and click "Add Filter" at the bottom of the page.
  578. # [18:30] <jgraham> You probably want to review /
  579. # [18:30] <jgraham> (i.e. everything)
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  582. # [18:32] <annevk> I have to say though, this is an interesting thing
  583. # [18:32] <annevk> Maybe at some point we can use this for specs, once we have enough people to write them
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  585. # [18:34] <annevk> lol
  586. # [18:34] <annevk> "save settings" goes so fast and there's no delay on the dialog displayed
  587. # [18:34] <annevk> so it looks more like corruption than success
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  593. # [18:55] <jgraham> annevk: That spec has the word "Ontology" in the introduction. That's not so much a red flag as a blaring siren, and a crush of people screaming "danger, get out while you still can"
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  598. # [18:59] <annevk> but it also defines an API for getting data out of objects
  599. # [18:59] <annevk> I guess I'm wondering if this is something we want to implement
  600. # [18:59] <annevk> one browser guy
  601. # [18:59] <annevk> kinda
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  603. # [19:00] <TabAtkins> I don't understand the rationale behind making this async.
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  605. # [19:00] <TabAtkins> It doesn't appear that there's anything that would cause delay, I think?
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  608. # [19:00] <annevk> plus a bunch of university people who by the looks of their API design never made a site
  609. # [19:00] <annevk> TabAtkins: it's IO
  610. # [19:00] <annevk> TabAtkins: so that makes sense, but it should be futures
  611. # [19:00] <TabAtkins> annevk: Ah, file IO, gotcha.
  612. # [19:00] <TabAtkins> annevk: In that case, yeah, definitely.
  613. # [19:00] <TabAtkins> Though this was written before Futures.
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  616. # [19:01] <annevk> but the return value needs to be cleaned up
  617. # [19:01] <annevk> that seems much more disheartening than anything else there
  618. # [19:01] <TabAtkins> Also: awgoddammit they use, not even named class constants, but just straight-up *numbers* to identify modes in MediaResource#getSupportedModes()
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  621. # [19:03] <TabAtkins> I could go through and do an API rewrite if anyone thinks it's something that might be valuable to implement.
  622. # [19:04] <TabAtkins> annevk: While you're here, let me bounce a ProgressFuture idea off of you.
  623. # [19:05] <TabAtkins> I suspect that a decent fraction of ProgressFuture users will want to use the progress events for things like showing UI (depending on exactly what it is, of course).
  624. # [19:05] <annevk> TabAtkins: so I think people have suggested better EXIF-like APIs already, I just wonder where those went; emailed webapps about it now
  625. # [19:05] <TabAtkins> This kind of thing benefits from knowing the current state of the progress at the time it registers, in addition to listening for future progress updates.
  626. # [19:06] <Ms2ger> Gecko supports media.mozGetMetadata()
  627. # [19:06] <TabAtkins> In other words, it seems like the progress updates themselves could be useful in a future-like way, where you get informed of the latest "completed" progress.
  628. # [19:06] <annevk> Ms2ger: maybe reply in that thread with a pointer?
  629. # [19:07] <TabAtkins> Idea: rather than just registering a callback with .progress(), also allow registering an object with number keys in [0,1] and callback values. ProgressFuture gains, in addition to (or instead of?) the explicit progress value, a progress number from [0,1].
  630. # [19:08] <TabAtkins> Or, wait, I just realized the API I'm suggesting is a bad idea.
  631. # [19:08] <annevk> the progress callback will just be passed an object with the data
  632. # [19:08] <annevk> with which you can do everything
  633. # [19:09] <TabAtkins> Instead! ProgressFuture gains a progress number, from [0,1]. If you register for .progress(), it gets called immediately (next tick) with the current progress number.
  634. # [19:09] <TabAtkins> annevk: Problem with current spec is that you have to wait for the next resolver.progress() update.
  635. # [19:09] <Ms2ger> annevk, fwiw, the FormData test may be a joke, but it used to fail in Gecko :)
  636. # [19:10] <annevk> Ms2ger: Gecko is a joke :p
  637. # [19:10] <annevk> oh wait
  638. # [19:10] <Ms2ger> annevk, indeed so :)
  639. # [19:10] <Ms2ger> Do we have an easy way to test FormData?
  640. # [19:10] <annevk> TabAtkins: that seems like an impl detail
  641. # [19:11] <jgraham> annevk: Marking things as reviewed when they still have issues as a slightly non-obvious part of the critic model. "I've reviewed this" doesn't mean "I think this is OK".
  642. # [19:11] <TabAtkins> annevk: I... don't think it is? The spec seems clear so far that the future's progress callbacks are called whenever the resolver posts a progress update.
  643. # [19:11] <annevk> TabAtkins: we can spec that the first thing .progress() does is have resolver.progress() queue something (unless the future is already complete in which case that does not make much sense I think)
  644. # [19:11] <TabAtkins> Right, so that's a spec detail, not an impl detail. ^_^
  645. # [19:11] <TabAtkins> That would work.
  646. # [19:11] <jgraham> So you don't really need to add a comment pointing out that your other comments need to be addressed; that's just the normal workflow
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  648. # [19:12] <TabAtkins> And yes, if the future is complete, no progress callback. We should also just entirely turn off progress updates after it's resolved.
  649. # [19:12] <annevk> TabAtkins: with "impl" I meant we might want to make it depend on where we are using it
  650. # [19:12] <TabAtkins> annevk: Hm, I doubt there's a case where you're registering for progress updates and *don't* want to know what the current progress is.
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  652. # [19:12] <annevk> I sometimes say "impl" if e.g. HTML uses URL, HTML has an impl of the URL stuff I wrote
  653. # [19:13] <annevk> TabAtkins: fair
  654. # [19:13] <annevk> TabAtkins: I'm also leaning towards the .then(success,reject,progress) model
  655. # [19:13] <annevk> but maybe starting with .progress is sufficient
  656. # [19:13] <TabAtkins> Interesting. I'm fine with the current model, given chaining.
  657. # [19:14] <annevk> with the current model you might do the wrong thing if you first do .then()
  658. # [19:14] <TabAtkins> Really?
  659. # [19:14] <annevk> there's no way to get back to the future you .then()d on
  660. # [19:14] <annevk> if you're chaining
  661. # [19:14] <TabAtkins> Oh!
  662. # [19:14] <TabAtkins> Right.
  663. # [19:14] <TabAtkins> I forgot that .then() returns a new future.
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  669. # [19:20] <annevk> Ms2ger: is there any documentation on this mozGetMedia thing?
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  672. # [19:20] <Ms2ger> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/interfaces/html/nsIDOMHTMLMediaElement.idl#97
  673. # [19:21] <annevk> just found that
  674. # [19:21] <annevk> so that's sync
  675. # [19:21] <annevk> I guess we cache stuff
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  677. # [19:22] <annevk> and it seems our approach is to just expose whatever if we support the storage format
  678. # [19:22] <annevk> hmm
  679. # [19:25] <TabAtkins> annevk: btw, good work on upgrading the futures spec. It's more readable now, though I think I can still contribute.
  680. # [19:26] <annevk> Can we still change fullscreen?
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  682. # [19:27] <TabAtkins> annevk: Also, I'd love to define the fetching model for CSS. The thread on filter-effects has a confusing amount of detail, though.
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  684. # [19:27] <TabAtkins> So, any help would be appreciated.
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  686. # [19:27] <annevk> hopefully by end of Q2 http://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/ is roughly done
  687. # [19:27] <TabAtkins> So I should wait on that?
  688. # [19:28] <annevk> well the general model is in place so we can start thinking about it
  689. # [19:28] <annevk> up to you
  690. # [19:29] <TabAtkins> Ok, if I have time in the near future I'll look through it.
  691. # [19:29] <annevk> okay so Mozilla does not expose Fullscreen unprefixed
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  693. # [19:29] <TabAtkins> On an unrelated note, if we change ProgressFuture as discussed here, I think that concept should be reified somewhere, as it's a useful Event alternative in some cases.
  694. # [19:29] <gsnedders> jgraham: So what is the commit policy now for html5lib?
  695. # [19:30] <TabAtkins> "that concept" being "callback called multiple times, but also called as soon as you register with the latest data".
  696. # [19:30] <annevk> WebKit is prefixed too
  697. # [19:30] <TabAtkins> In which case, going with the 3-arg .then() might be a good idea.
  698. # [19:30] <annevk> fuck yeah futures
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  700. # [19:31] <TabAtkins> It may or may not ever actually complete.
  701. # [19:31] <TabAtkins> Depending on the exact usage.
  702. # [19:31] <jgraham> gsnedders: I won't cry if you make comemnt cleanups without getting review
  703. # [19:31] <jgraham> But maybe larger changes should have code review
  704. # [19:32] <jgraham> We could see how it works at least, now we have a tool that doesn't entirely suck
  705. # [19:33] <annevk> TabAtkins: yes, we'll make it part of the contract
  706. # [19:34] <annevk> TabAtkins: if you do ProgressFuture, you need to have progress data available next to having a result available
  707. # [19:34] <TabAtkins> annevk: I'm compiling a blog post of scenarios and which callback mechanism to use to solve them, so I'll put it in there.
  708. # [19:34] <annevk> TabAtkins: and at some point progress data becomes null and result becomes non-null
  709. # [19:35] <TabAtkins> Yes, for ProgressFuture that's definitely what happens.
  710. # [19:35] <TabAtkins> But I can easily see a Future that doesnt' ever complete, but only gives "progress" updates, where "progress" is just any value.
  711. # [19:35] <TabAtkins> This would let us wipe out the last events from Font Load Events, and do it *better* than the events currently do, to boot.
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  713. # [19:36] <annevk> oops
  714. # [19:36] <annevk> one problem with using futures for requestFullscreen is that subdocuments would no longer be modified
  715. # [19:36] <annevk> which seems bad
  716. # [19:37] <annevk> but we could have both
  717. # [19:37] <annevk> in this case
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  719. # [19:37] <annevk> and get rid of fullscreenerror
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  721. # [19:41] <TabAtkins> Hixie: I didn't realize that w() had a special printing mode for when you pass in events. Nice!
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  733. # [19:54] <TabAtkins> annevk: Also, are you following the monadic-promises discussion that's happening on the promises-aplus github?
  734. # [19:55] <annevk> I saw some of it come by
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  736. # [20:01] <TabAtkins> You wouldn't need to add much to make it happen, and the most important bit - making a "basic" future out of a static value, with something like Future#of - is useful by itself.
  737. # [20:01] <TabAtkins> It lets you, frex, intermix a static value with other futures in the futures combinators.
  738. # [20:01] <annevk> you can already do that
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  741. # [20:02] <annevk> Future.any(future, "test") works
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  743. # [20:07] <Ms2ger> annevk, seriously though... How do you test FormData?
  744. # [20:08] <annevk> Ms2ger: Microsoft managed :p
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  746. # [20:08] <Ms2ger> annevk, ouch :(
  747. # [20:08] <annevk> Ms2ger: you have to push it over the network basically at the moment
  748. # [20:08] <annevk> Ms2ger: apart from the IDL trickery one can do
  749. # [20:09] <annevk> Eventually it might grow to be more like URLQuery
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  751. # [20:09] <TabAtkins> annevk: Hm, that means that you can't easily make a future that returns a future as its completion value, no? Because you end up having to ducktype it?
  752. # [20:10] <annevk> TabAtkins: accept() can be used if you want that
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  755. # [20:11] <Ms2ger> annevk, tell me more about this IDL trickery
  756. # [20:12] <annevk> Ms2ger: the kind of tests you wrote for ProgressEvent
  757. # [20:12] <TabAtkins> annevk: You mean just doing "new Future(function(r){r.accept(<static value>);})?
  758. # [20:13] <annevk> TabAtkins: what is static value?
  759. # [20:13] <TabAtkins> annevk: Whatever value you want to upgrade into a promise. You already have it, but you want it to interact with the promise algebra.
  760. # [20:13] <TabAtkins> s/promise/future/
  761. # [20:14] <annevk> if that value needs to be able to be a future, yes
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  763. # [20:14] <annevk> I think the general pattern is using .resolve() though
  764. # [20:15] <TabAtkins> So, Future.of(<static value>) sounds like a much more convenient way to do that. ^_^
  765. # [20:17] <annevk> could you explain the scenario though where .resolve() is not okay?
  766. # [20:17] <annevk> on www-dom perhaps
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  772. # [20:27] <TabAtkins> Are you referring to the code I posted above (but with .resolve instead of .accept)?
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  774. # [20:34] * arunranga wonders if making Blob URLs cross origin will clean up the data: URL morass
  775. # [20:35] <arunranga> For some reason changing this in the spec feels dangerous.
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  778. # [20:37] <annevk> TabAtkins: just in general I guess
  779. # [20:38] <annevk> arunranga: so what needs to happen is that we need to decide how the blob URL lifecycle works
  780. # [20:38] <annevk> arunranga: I don't think it's dangerous, as the URL is secret (unguessable)
  781. # [20:39] <annevk> arunranga: the problem is the lifecycle, but that's a problem either way :(
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  787. # [21:02] <arunranga> annevk, we've struggled with lifecycle for what seems like a long time now :( seems like autoRevoke is no silver bullet
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  791. # [21:12] <Hixie> annevk: ah, if you were intentionally not having me update the spec then nevermind :-)
  792. # [21:12] <Hixie> annevk: it does sound vaguely familiar now that you mention it
  793. # [21:12] <Hixie> TabAtkins: :-)
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  795. # [21:18] <gsnedders> So, chardet on PyPi doesn't support Python 3 doesn't Mark having had a chapter in Dive Into Python 3 on getting it working on Python 3. Yay.
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  806. # [21:32] <Ms2ger> gsnedders, ... eh?
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  809. # [21:34] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: What's eh about that. Mark Pilgrim, author of chardet, wrote a chapter on porting chardet to Python 3. He never made a release of chardet supporting Python 3.
  810. # [21:34] <Ms2ger> s/doesn't/despite/, or?
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  812. # [21:35] <gsnedders> Yes.
  813. # [21:36] <Ms2ger> That does make more sense
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  815. # [21:38] <annevk> seems he is online, you could ask him about it
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  817. # [21:39] <gsnedders> On the other hand, he has basically abandoned all of that stuff.
  818. # [21:40] <annevk> Hixie: cannot find the HTMLImageElement.src compat bug
  819. # [21:41] <annevk> Hixie: did not know about IE doing "null" either
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  824. # [21:48] <annevk> Hixie: found it https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=859640
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  843. # [22:26] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: the pseudo algorithm in multicol, is it supposed to be normative?
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  859. # [22:52] <TabAtkins> zcorpan: Yes, but it's under heavy discussion. See recent mailing list stuff.
  860. # [22:54] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  861. # [22:56] <zcorpan> i think i'll wait until the edits have been made and then look at it again
  862. # [22:57] <zcorpan> i didn't read it carefully but my knee-jerk reaction was that things could be interpreted in several ways, or that the pseudo-code was ambiguous
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  864. # [22:57] <zcorpan> i'm not a fan of normative pseudo-code
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  869. # [23:03] <TabAtkins> The pseudo-code *is* ambiguous right now, which is the biggest part of the discussion.
  870. # [23:03] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin is trying to get it fixed.
  871. # [23:04] <zcorpan> excellent
  872. # [23:04] <SimonSapin> zcorpan: I think that the edits in the attachment here capture what we discussed: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Apr/0225.html
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  876. # [23:09] <zcorpan> SimonSapin: ah, didn't notice the attachment. that looks better
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  878. # [23:09] <zcorpan> SimonSapin: the first two lines could be removed as well?
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  880. # [23:09] <SimonSapin> zcorpan: yeah I guess
  881. # [23:09] <SimonSapin> but getting this much has been hard enough :/
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  906. # [23:51] <SimonSapin> annevk: (if you read logs) not sure what to say to that: https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/rust-dev/2013-April/003579.html
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  909. # Session Close: Fri Apr 12 00:00:00 2013

The end :)