/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-04-29 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Mon Apr 29 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:04] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-197-111.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  4. # [00:14] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs164155.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  5. # [00:18] * Quits: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  6. # [00:19] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  7. # [00:21] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs164155.pp.htv.fi)
  8. # [00:23] * Joins: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
  9. # [00:24] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@69-196-163-70.dsl.teksavvy.com)
  10. # [00:25] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  11. # [00:27] * Quits: pyrsmk (~pyrsmk@2a01:e35:2f52:ead0:21e:8cff:feeb:d962) (Remote host closed the connection)
  12. # [00:27] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@69-196-163-70.dsl.teksavvy.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  13. # [00:29] * Joins: krijn (uid2319@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dobwzligtxjdjnqd)
  14. # [00:30] * Joins: arv (uid4269@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-enqdfoogebzcuxtf)
  15. # [00:30] * Joins: beowulf (uid116@pdpc/supporter/professional/beowulf)
  16. # [00:30] * Joins: scottjehl (~uid3055@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oprwcfqximyxhkzi)
  17. # [00:30] * Joins: cwilso__ (uid10206@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uoeqenfccqwlsqwu)
  18. # [00:30] * Joins: jamesr_ (uid10481@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yhttgzqgdrznoobj)
  19. # [00:30] * Joins: slightlyoff (uid1768@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-byjovihigkqtkuzx)
  20. # [00:31] * Joins: wycats__ (uid79@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lzomoyfobwjjncyo)
  21. # [00:35] * Joins: twisted` (uid6794@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fufqfbjyqleylgcd)
  22. # [00:39] * Joins: sawrubh (uid6719@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wzhqyveyikafseot)
  23. # [00:42] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  24. # [00:52] * Quits: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@2001:980:9368:1:29f9:dc44:a4c:3657) (Remote host closed the connection)
  25. # [00:57] * Quits: jgornick (~jgornick@c-66-41-28-205.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  26. # [00:57] * Joins: nimbu (~Adium@173-228-123-12.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  27. # [00:59] * Joins: jgornick (~jgornick@c-66-41-28-205.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
  28. # [01:00] * Quits: nessy1 (~silviapf@124-149-162-142.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  29. # [01:02] * Quits: nimbu (~Adium@173-228-123-12.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  30. # [01:03] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  31. # [01:09] * Joins: a-ja (~Instantbi@70.230.147.104)
  32. # [01:13] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  33. # [01:15] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  34. # [01:16] * Quits: aleray (~aleray@ip-83-101-33-25.customer.schedom-europe.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  35. # [01:17] * Quits: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  36. # [01:25] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  37. # [01:29] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  38. # [01:29] * Quits: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  39. # [01:35] * Joins: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled)
  40. # [01:39] * Quits: yorick (~yorick@oftn/member/yorick) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  41. # [01:39] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  42. # [01:46] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  43. # [01:54] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  44. # [01:56] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  45. # [01:58] * Joins: nimbu (~Adium@173-228-123-12.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  46. # [02:00] * Joins: benschwarz (uid2121@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-siaqcbytosuovdlz)
  47. # [02:03] * Quits: nimbu (~Adium@173-228-123-12.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  48. # [02:03] * Joins: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  49. # [02:03] * Quits: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Changing host)
  50. # [02:03] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  51. # [02:10] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  52. # [02:13] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  53. # [02:20] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  54. # [02:30] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: rniwa)
  55. # [02:33] * Quits: jimmyalcala (~jimmyalca@186.93.255.73) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  56. # [02:36] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  57. # [02:40] * Quits: danielfilho (~danielfil@200.233.52.248) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  58. # [02:41] * Joins: danielfilho (~danielfil@200.233.52.248)
  59. # [02:41] * Quits: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  60. # [02:46] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  61. # [02:47] * Quits: irfaN (~irfaN@unaffiliated/irfan) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  62. # [02:48] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-197-111.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  63. # [02:53] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  64. # [02:55] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  65. # [02:58] * Joins: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled)
  66. # [03:09] * Quits: barneybook (~kvirc@114-44-197-16.dynamic.hinet.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  67. # [03:09] * Joins: nimbu (~Adium@173-228-123-12.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  68. # [03:20] * Joins: nessy1 (~silviapf@dps-pool9.nat.nicta.com.au)
  69. # [03:22] * Joins: nessy2 (~silviapf@stargate.it.nicta.com.au)
  70. # [03:24] * Quits: nessy1 (~silviapf@dps-pool9.nat.nicta.com.au) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  71. # [03:25] * Quits: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  72. # [03:32] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs164155.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  73. # [03:36] * Joins: dydx (~dydz@ip-64-134-239-140.public.wayport.net)
  74. # [03:38] * Quits: farfanoide (~farfanoid@190.50.31.184) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
  75. # [03:49] * Joins: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled)
  76. # [03:50] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  77. # [03:58] * Joins: AladinBouzerd_ (~aladinbou@41.104.90.100)
  78. # [04:00] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  79. # [04:02] * Quits: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.104.90.100) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  80. # [04:14] * Quits: dydx (~dydz@ip-64-134-239-140.public.wayport.net) (Quit: dydx)
  81. # [04:20] * Quits: runeh (~Rune@phlebotinum.org) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  82. # [04:20] * Quits: nessy2 (~silviapf@stargate.it.nicta.com.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  83. # [04:20] * Joins: nessy1 (~silviapf@stargate.it.nicta.com.au)
  84. # [04:21] * Joins: barneybook (~kvirc@36-224-117-16.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
  85. # [04:36] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-197-111.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  86. # [05:05] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  87. # [05:09] * Quits: nessy1 (~silviapf@stargate.it.nicta.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  88. # [05:09] * Joins: nessy1 (~silviapf@stargate.it.nicta.com.au)
  89. # [05:15] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  90. # [05:15] * Joins: nessy2 (~silviapf@dps-pool9.nat.nicta.com.au)
  91. # [05:15] * Quits: nessy1 (~silviapf@stargate.it.nicta.com.au) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  92. # [05:22] * Quits: Badreddin (~Nur@189.192.138.187) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  93. # [05:24] * Quits: jochen__ (jochen@nat/google/x-abpbisbcpzxgjshk) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  94. # [05:27] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  95. # [05:43] * Joins: ryanseddon (uid1832@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zqxykzqqrbonapfy)
  96. # [05:44] * Quits: nessy2 (~silviapf@dps-pool9.nat.nicta.com.au) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  97. # [05:48] * Joins: AladinBouzerd__ (~aladinbou@41.104.90.100)
  98. # [05:49] * Joins: nessy1 (~silviapf@stargate.it.nicta.com.au)
  99. # [05:50] * Joins: Badreddin (~Nur@189.192.155.69)
  100. # [05:52] * Quits: AladinBouzerd_ (~aladinbou@41.104.90.100) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  101. # [06:16] * Quits: AladinBouzerd__ (~aladinbou@41.104.90.100) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  102. # [06:28] * Joins: dydx (~dydz@76-220-18-65.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  103. # [06:50] * Quits: Badreddin (~Nur@189.192.155.69) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  104. # [06:59] * Quits: Zauberfisch|idle (~Zauberfis@2a01:4f8:100:73c3::3) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  105. # [07:00] * Joins: Zauberfisch|idle (~Zauberfis@2a01:4f8:100:73c3::3)
  106. # [07:01] * Joins: jryans (~jryans@cpe-70-113-92-118.austin.res.rr.com)
  107. # [07:15] * Parts: a-ja (~Instantbi@70.230.147.104)
  108. # [07:18] * Joins: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
  109. # [07:25] * Quits: mven (~mven@ip68-224-15-53.lv.lv.cox.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  110. # [07:26] * Quits: nimbu (~Adium@173-228-123-12.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  111. # [07:28] * Joins: mven (~mven@ip68-224-15-53.lv.lv.cox.net)
  112. # [07:34] * Joins: Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc4-reig5-2-0-cust637.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  113. # [07:50] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@101.18.221.193) (Quit: kennyluck)
  114. # [07:56] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@ip-134.net-89-2-126.rev.numericable.fr)
  115. # [07:57] * Joins: zdobersek (~zdobersek@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si)
  116. # [08:04] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-217-68-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  117. # [08:13] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-50-136-134-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: othermaciej)
  118. # [08:16] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  119. # [08:19] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs164155.pp.htv.fi)
  120. # [08:20] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: rniwa)
  121. # [08:35] * zcorpan marks Future discussions as read
  122. # [08:36] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-50-136-134-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  123. # [08:37] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.182.42.113)
  124. # [08:43] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238)
  125. # [08:44] * Joins: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229)
  126. # [08:45] * Quits: Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc4-reig5-2-0-cust637.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
  127. # [08:45] * Quits: nessy1 (~silviapf@stargate.it.nicta.com.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  128. # [08:46] * Joins: nessy1 (~silviapf@gw-visitor.gw.nicta.net)
  129. # [08:46] * Joins: AladinBouzerd__ (~aladinbou@41.104.90.100)
  130. # [08:54] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@94.137.124.2)
  131. # [08:56] * Joins: jochen__ (jochen@nat/google/x-qfklacwarmexyzxo)
  132. # [09:00] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  133. # [09:02] * Joins: danielfilho|w (~danielfil@200.232.113.107)
  134. # [09:07] * Joins: mven_ (~mven@ip68-224-15-53.lv.lv.cox.net)
  135. # [09:11] * Quits: danielfilho|w (~danielfil@200.232.113.107) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  136. # [09:11] * Quits: mven (~mven@ip68-224-15-53.lv.lv.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  137. # [09:12] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-197-111.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  138. # [09:13] * Joins: hallvors (~hallvord@node-c4gb5la7r084ok.20.ipv6.opera.com)
  139. # [09:13] * Quits: Zauberfisch|idle (~Zauberfis@2a01:4f8:100:73c3::3) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  140. # [09:16] * Joins: Zauberfisch|idle (~Zauberfis@2a01:4f8:100:73c3::3)
  141. # [09:20] * Joins: YourWebDevGuy (~yourwebde@75.92.84.106)
  142. # [09:21] * Quits: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229) (Remote host closed the connection)
  143. # [09:23] * Joins: mitemitreski (~mitemitre@212.120.17.179)
  144. # [09:27] * Joins: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@2001:980:9368:1:740a:5627:2a3f:92d5)
  145. # [09:27] * Quits: YourWebDevGuy (~yourwebde@75.92.84.106) (Quit: Leaving)
  146. # [09:34] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-217-68-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  147. # [09:38] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  148. # [09:38] * Quits: AladinBouzerd__ (~aladinbou@41.104.90.100) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  149. # [09:38] * Quits: dydx (~dydz@76-220-18-65.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: dydx)
  150. # [09:38] * Joins: runeh (~Rune@phlebotinum.org)
  151. # [09:39] * Joins: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.104.90.100)
  152. # [09:40] * Joins: AladinBouzerd_ (~aladinbou@41.104.75.82)
  153. # [09:43] * Joins: nessy2 (~silviapf@stargate.it.nicta.com.au)
  154. # [09:44] * Quits: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.104.90.100) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  155. # [09:45] * Quits: nessy1 (~silviapf@gw-visitor.gw.nicta.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  156. # [09:54] <jgraham> Hmm, so roc's delaying the content load event proposals are scaring me, but I'm not entirely sure I can entirely defend my git-reaction of "run away"
  157. # [09:54] <jgraham> *gut
  158. # [09:54] * Joins: charlie (~charlie@46.7.56.116)
  159. # [09:55] <Ms2ger> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAp9sFVdERQ
  160. # [09:58] <jgraham> I think what frightens me is tying in a script controlled flag to something that is already intimately connected with the lifecycle of the document
  161. # [10:00] <Ms2ger> Clearly we need a reallyload event
  162. # [10:01] * Joins: viduthalai1947 (uid5404@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bmhyjgbcupgtuovn)
  163. # [10:03] * Quits: nessy2 (~silviapf@stargate.it.nicta.com.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  164. # [10:14] * Joins: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  165. # [10:17] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaaab-74736162.cust.telenor.se)
  166. # [10:18] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@ip-134.net-89-2-126.rev.numericable.fr) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  167. # [10:19] * Quits: globbot (~logbot@lump.glob.com.au) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  168. # [10:20] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  169. # [10:28] * Joins: benbarnett (~Adium@80.87.30.115)
  170. # [10:29] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@122.161.56.205)
  171. # [10:30] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  172. # [10:32] <smaug____> roc's proposal sounds good to me. Very similar to Gecko's internal OnloadBlocker.
  173. # [10:33] <jgraham> Well if it matches gecko's architecture, that explains a lot :)
  174. # [10:34] <jgraham> But the scary thing is that it's a footgun
  175. # [10:34] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  176. # [10:35] <smaug____> I don't see the footgunness
  177. # [10:35] <jgraham> Since a lot of other things trigger on the load event, giving authors the power to delay that event for an arbitary amount of time means that they can accidentially pevent those things happeneing
  178. # [10:35] <smaug____> more than with document.write or such
  179. # [10:35] <jgraham> *prevent
  180. # [10:35] <jgraham> Well document.write is a terrible API
  181. # [10:35] * Joins: tomasf (~tomasf@77.72.97.10.c.fiberdirekt.net)
  182. # [10:35] <jgraham> Probably the worst on the platfoem
  183. # [10:35] <smaug____> true
  184. # [10:36] <jgraham> So that's not a good bar to set for new features
  185. # [10:36] <smaug____> I can see it is useful to block load event until you have for example loaded some data using websocket
  186. # [10:36] <jgraham> Also, I don't see how this is backwards compatible
  187. # [10:37] <jgraham> If you as an author depend on blocking the load event until you have some data that is at best going to be racy in UAs that don't support this feature
  188. # [10:38] * Joins: globbot (~logbot@lump.glob.com.au)
  189. # [10:40] <smaug____> well, you can implement the thing using script libraries
  190. # [10:40] <smaug____> some hacky iframe doing document.write or such
  191. # [10:40] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 20.0.1/20130409194949])
  192. # [10:40] <jgraham> Sure
  193. # [10:40] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  194. # [10:40] <jgraham> But there's a difference between "X is possible" and "X is encouraged"
  195. # [10:44] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  196. # [10:44] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@132.185.151.37)
  197. # [10:46] * SimonSapin1 is now known as SimonSapin
  198. # [10:51] * Joins: nonge_ (~nonge@p5B32614E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  199. # [10:55] * Quits: nonge (~nonge@p5082BFA0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  200. # [11:02] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  201. # [11:05] <SimonSapin> Is http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/rendering.html missing something like th { text-align: center }? Or is it encoded as prose somewhere in there?
  202. # [11:07] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
  203. # [11:07] * Joins: danielfilho|w (~danielfil@200.232.113.107)
  204. # [11:08] <Ms2ger> I think that's in prose somewhere...
  205. # [11:08] * Ms2ger looks
  206. # [11:09] <SimonSapin> searching for "th" doesn’t really help ;)
  207. # [11:09] <Ms2ger> User agents are expected to have a rule in their user agent stylesheet that matches th elements that have a parent node whose computed value for the 'text-align' property is its initial value, whose declaration block consists of just a single declaration that sets the 'text-align' property to the value 'center'.
  208. # [11:10] * Joins: emailshwetank (~shwetank@216.155.131.75)
  209. # [11:11] * Quits: danielfilho|w (~danielfil@200.232.113.107) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  210. # [11:11] <SimonSapin> oh …
  211. # [11:12] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@122.161.56.205) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  212. # [11:12] <SimonSapin> that sucks
  213. # [11:12] <Ms2ger> Yeah, it's weird
  214. # [11:14] <SimonSapin> I guess WeasyPrint is gonna ignore the part about the parent with an initial value
  215. # [11:15] * Joins: josemanuel (~josemanue@217.220.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
  216. # [11:16] <SimonSapin> I wish the whole chapter could be encoded as CSS to be used in a UA stylesheet, even if that means having a few magic CSS keywords
  217. # [11:23] * Quits: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@2001:980:9368:1:740a:5627:2a3f:92d5) (Remote host closed the connection)
  218. # [11:24] * Parts: JibberJim (~opera@132.185.151.37)
  219. # [11:24] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@132.185.151.37)
  220. # [11:35] * Quits: jryans (~jryans@cpe-70-113-92-118.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: Be back later)
  221. # [11:36] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs164155.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  222. # [11:39] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaaab-74736162.cust.telenor.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
  223. # [11:40] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@188.24.66.95)
  224. # [11:40] * Quits: alrra (~alrra@188.24.66.95) (Changing host)
  225. # [11:40] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra)
  226. # [11:40] * Quits: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra) (Remote host closed the connection)
  227. # [11:44] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@2.25.61.48)
  228. # [11:45] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.182.42.113) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  229. # [11:45] * Joins: jryans (~jryans@cpe-70-113-92-118.austin.res.rr.com)
  230. # [11:46] * Joins: richt (~richt@222.233.254.208)
  231. # [11:46] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@94.234.170.171)
  232. # [11:46] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@94.234.170.171) (Remote host closed the connection)
  233. # [11:51] * Quits: JibberJim (~opera@132.185.151.37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  234. # [11:52] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@94.234.170.171)
  235. # [11:57] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@132.185.151.37)
  236. # [11:58] * Quits: emailshwetank (~shwetank@216.155.131.75) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  237. # [12:04] * Joins: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@2001:980:9368:1:2ccf:e55c:758a:25ac)
  238. # [12:06] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@94.234.170.171) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  239. # [12:07] * Joins: aleray (~aleray@ip-83-101-33-9.customer.schedom-europe.net)
  240. # [12:08] <aleray> what is the license of html5lib-python?
  241. # [12:11] <SimonSapin> aleray: the source says MIT
  242. # [12:11] * Quits: ^esc (~esc_ape@77.117.246.158.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  243. # [12:19] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@2.25.61.48) (Remote host closed the connection)
  244. # [12:23] <jgraham> Yes, MIT
  245. # [12:23] * Joins: ^esc (~esc_ape@77.117.246.158.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
  246. # [12:24] <jgraham> Of course we prefer patches than forks :)
  247. # [12:33] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@static-212-247-211-195.cust.tele2.se)
  248. # [12:33] <zcorpan> does anyone want to help me importing http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/html5/html4-differences/ to https://github.com/whatwg/html-differences (preserving history)?
  249. # [12:36] <jgraham> zcorpan: git cvsimport seems to be what you want
  250. # [12:37] <jgraham> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11362676/what-is-the-best-way-to-import-a-cvs-repository-in-git-and-use-it-locally
  251. # [12:37] <jgraham> I think you also have to have CVS set up right in the first place
  252. # [12:38] <jgraham> http://maymay.net/blog/2008/04/15/how-to-import-cvs-code-repositories-into-git-using-git-cvsimport/
  253. # [12:40] <aleray> SimonSapin, jgornick
  254. # [12:40] <aleray> oups jgraham
  255. # [12:40] <aleray> thanks
  256. # [12:40] <aleray> I'm writing a writer
  257. # [12:40] <aleray> for ConText
  258. # [12:40] <aleray> (http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Main_Page)
  259. # [12:41] <aleray> super crude
  260. # [12:41] <aleray> so maybe I'll wait a little bit more, but since I copied the htmlserializer to start with I will keep the mit license
  261. # [12:42] <aleray> no fork on the roadmap :)
  262. # [12:44] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  263. # [12:45] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@vpnh038.ugent.be)
  264. # [12:54] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  265. # [12:54] <zcorpan> jgraham: i tried following the maymay.net steps but get:
  266. # [12:54] <zcorpan> Running cvsps...
  267. # [12:54] <zcorpan> connect error: Permission denied
  268. # [12:55] <jgraham> I am not the best person to help here
  269. # [12:56] <jgraham> Since I haven't used CVS for 7 years or something
  270. # [12:56] <jgraham> and don't have W3C CVS access
  271. # [12:56] <jgraham> But, are you sure that your CVS access is correctly set up?
  272. # [12:57] <zcorpan> I logged in with the anonymous credentials at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/
  273. # [12:57] <zcorpan> ~/.cvspass exists
  274. # [12:58] <zcorpan> i could do a checkout
  275. # [12:58] <jgraham> Hmm
  276. # [12:59] <jgraham> I note that no other instructions I can see require cvsps
  277. # [13:00] <zcorpan> or maybe they do but don't say so :-)
  278. # [13:01] <jgraham> Could be :)
  279. # [13:02] * Quits: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@2001:980:9368:1:2ccf:e55c:758a:25ac) (Remote host closed the connection)
  280. # [13:02] <jgraham> (you could also try cvs2git I guess: http://cvs2svn.tigris.org/cvs2git.html)
  281. # [13:08] * Joins: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229)
  282. # [13:09] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238) (Quit: sedovsek)
  283. # [13:20] * Joins: [[zzz]] (~q@node-78g.pool-125-25.dynamic.totbb.net)
  284. # [13:20] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs164155.pp.htv.fi)
  285. # [13:23] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  286. # [13:23] * Quits: [[zz]] (~q@node-j2x.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  287. # [13:25] <zcorpan> screw it
  288. # [13:26] * Joins: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it)
  289. # [13:33] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  290. # [13:35] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: can http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/html5/html4-differences/ be made read-only?
  291. # [13:52] * Quits: AladinBouzerd_ (~aladinbou@41.104.75.82) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  292. # [13:53] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238)
  293. # [13:55] * Quits: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229) (Remote host closed the connection)
  294. # [13:56] * Joins: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.104.87.216)
  295. # [13:58] * Parts: JibberJim (~opera@132.185.151.37)
  296. # [13:59] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@132.185.151.37)
  297. # [14:00] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@122.161.56.205)
  298. # [14:05] * Quits: richt (~richt@222.233.254.208) (Remote host closed the connection)
  299. # [14:05] * Joins: scor (scor@nat/acquia/x-hdltihydoskjtmtj)
  300. # [14:05] * Quits: scor (scor@nat/acquia/x-hdltihydoskjtmtj) (Changing host)
  301. # [14:05] * Joins: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  302. # [14:05] * Joins: richt (~richt@222.233.254.208)
  303. # [14:05] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@122.161.56.205) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  304. # [14:10] * Quits: richt (~richt@222.233.254.208) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  305. # [14:19] * Joins: Badreddin (~Nur@189.192.155.69)
  306. # [14:20] * Quits: aleray (~aleray@ip-83-101-33-9.customer.schedom-europe.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  307. # [14:22] <hallvors> hm.. the problem with learning Git is that all one's mistakes seem to cause somebody else trouble.. Working on https://github.com/whatwg/xhr/pull/2 I'm wondering if I can cut down the long list of commits associated with the pull request
  308. # [14:23] <hallvors> the code changes under "Files changed" are near perfect, only those I want included..
  309. # [14:24] <hallvors> so why does Git (or GitHub) reference all those commits, and isn't there a way I can delete some of them from the list?
  310. # [14:24] <Ms2ger> I think the term is "squash"?
  311. # [14:24] * Ms2ger pokes jgraham
  312. # [14:25] <jgraham> Yes, you can
  313. # [14:26] <jgraham> I suggest closing the pull request though; I'm not sure what happens if you rewrite history and then push to a existing PR
  314. # [14:26] <hallvors> I've heard rumours of squash.. ;-)
  315. # [14:26] <jgraham> The way that you rewrite the history to reduce the number of commits is to use git rebase -i (i.e. --interactive)
  316. # [14:27] <hallvors> however, what I really don't understand is that the PR also lists changes like "add more IDs.." that are really quite old..
  317. # [14:27] <hallvors> and pushed before I made this branch that I wanted to make a PR from
  318. # [14:28] <jgraham> Hmm, well let me start by talking about how to use git rebase if you have a clean branch
  319. # [14:28] <jgraham> Then we can figure out if your branch is clean :)
  320. # [14:28] <hallvors> hm.. what's a "clean" branch in the first place?
  321. # [14:28] <hallvors> 8-)
  322. # [14:28] <jgraham> So the easiest thing to do is something like git rebase -i master
  323. # [14:28] * hallvors appreciates having Git gurus around
  324. # [14:29] <jgraham> This should bring up a text editor with a list of commits on your branch
  325. # [14:29] * Joins: caiogondim (~caio.gond@186.192.87.53)
  326. # [14:29] <hallvors> OK - at what point? after committing stuff to master? to other branch?
  327. # [14:29] * Ms2ger likes how hg doesn't require gurus to be around :)
  328. # [14:29] <jgraham> (protip: make sure that your $EDITOR is not set to vi before doing this)
  329. # [14:29] <jgraham> (protip2: :q)
  330. # [14:30] <jgraham> hallvors: I am assuming that you made the commits on some non-master branch
  331. # [14:30] <hallvors> yes
  332. # [14:31] <hallvors> so now I say rebase -i master. OK
  333. # [14:31] <jgraham> If you made the commits directly on master a) don't do that and b) look back through history to find some SHA1 before you started adding stuff
  334. # [14:31] <jgraham> Well, I guess it might even be easier to take it in two steps
  335. # [14:31] <jgraham> "git rebase master"
  336. # [14:31] <jgraham> This will move your commmits so they are on top of whatever master is
  337. # [14:32] <hallvors> OK - but they should already be.. anyway :)
  338. # [14:32] <jgraham> Hmm, let's take a step back
  339. # [14:32] <jgraham> Yeah, I think this doesn't all apply to your situation
  340. # [14:32] <jgraham> So the full process I would do is:
  341. # [14:32] <jgraham> git fetch origin
  342. # [14:33] <jgraham> git rebase origin/master
  343. # [14:33] <hallvors> I've done that
  344. # [14:33] <jgraham> git rebase -i origin/master
  345. # [14:33] <hallvors> (with some "merge conflict" resolution where I just told it to use Anne's version and discard any local edits)
  346. # [14:33] <hallvors> ah
  347. # [14:33] <jgraham> The two rebases are just to make things easier; the first will move your commits on top of the latest upstream without otherwise changing history
  348. # [14:33] <hallvors> I haven't done the rebase origin/mastr thing
  349. # [14:34] <jgraham> and the second one is to do the history rewrite
  350. # [14:34] <hallvors> OK, so that's why changes that predate me creating the branch still are in the PR
  351. # [14:35] <jgraham> Let's say you get as far as the interactive rebase
  352. # [14:35] <hallvors> thanks, now I understand a bit more :)
  353. # [14:35] <jgraham> Then you have an editor listing all the commits on your branch
  354. # [14:35] <jgraham> And some instructions down the bottom
  355. # [14:35] <jgraham> To the left of each SHA1 is the word "pick"
  356. # [14:36] <jgraham> You can change this, depending on what you want to do with the commit
  357. # [14:36] <hallvors> yes
  358. # [14:36] <jgraham> Notably "squash" will merge it into the previous commit and try to keep the commit message
  359. # [14:36] <jgraham> "fixup" will merge it into the previous commit and discard the commit message
  360. # [14:37] <jgraham> Deleting the line will remove that commit
  361. # [14:37] <jgraham> Changing the order allows you to reorder commits (but note that this can lead to merge conflicts)
  362. # [14:37] <jgraham> So you edit this until the branch looks how you want
  363. # [14:37] <jgraham> and save it
  364. # [14:37] <jgraham> and then you might get another editor allowing you to change some commit messages
  365. # [14:37] * matjas refreshes http://html-differences.spec.whatwg.org/ like crazy
  366. # [14:38] <jgraham> and then history will be rewritten
  367. # [14:38] <hallvors> I'll try with a fresh branch and see if I can make a reaaaaly clean PR..
  368. # [14:38] <jgraham> Ms2ger: That explains why there are never blog posts from Mozilla people describing crazy gymnastics with mq
  369. # [14:40] <jgraham> (or to put it differently: describe how to go from commits A-B-C-D to commits AB'-D'-C' in hg that describe an identical change to the original branch)
  370. # [14:41] <jgraham> (and convince me this is something that would be obvious to a newcomer without consulting external help)
  371. # [14:41] * Quits: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  372. # [14:43] * Quits: josemanuel (~josemanue@217.220.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  373. # [14:44] <SimonSapin> jgraham: not Mozilla people, but still :) http://www.logilab.org/blogentry/88203
  374. # [14:46] <jgraham> SimonSapin: Maybe I needed a </sarcasm>? I have seen *many* blog posts about how to achieve simple-sounding things in hg
  375. # [14:47] <jgraham> (that phases thing sounds like it wouldn't work well with code review on a branch)
  376. # [14:47] <SimonSapin> well, I’ve seen this guy give a talk on hg phases, and it didn’t quite sound simple
  377. # [14:48] * Joins: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled)
  378. # [14:50] <jgraham> Right, I think we are agreeing that things aren't always as simple as Ms2ger claimed
  379. # [14:51] <Ms2ger> Hg phases make a lot of sense unless you push unfinished commits to a public repo, like we do with our tryserver
  380. # [14:52] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.19.229.getinternet.no)
  381. # [14:53] <jgraham> Or we do with critic
  382. # [14:53] <hallvors> Ms2ger, jgraham: I had no intention of starting a religious war between the two of you. :-o Peace :)
  383. # [14:53] <jgraham> So basically it's a great idea as long as you don't worry about the real world
  384. # [14:54] <Ms2ger> Hah
  385. # [14:56] <hallvors> Meanwhile, I've successfully achieved some of what I wanted in https://github.com/whatwg/xhr/pull/3 but not all - right now I'll just wait for Anne getting to it and move on to the next opportunity for trying to make Git understand me and vice versa
  386. # [14:56] <Ms2ger> hallvors, you know about vim vs emacs, right?
  387. # [14:57] <hallvors> ugh
  388. # [14:57] <hallvors> I don't want to "know" more than I do because everybody who really "knows" is fighting, right? :-p
  389. # [14:58] * hallvors likes peace
  390. # [14:58] <Ms2ger> hg vs. git is the same thing, with the difference that your choice actually affects the people you work with :)
  391. # [15:02] <zcorpan> matjas: meanwhile i was talking to a colleague and then getting a cup of tea :-P
  392. # [15:03] * Joins: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@111-250-146-153.dynamic.hinet.net)
  393. # [15:03] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@199.71.174.103)
  394. # [15:04] * Joins: josemanuel (~josemanue@58.190.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
  395. # [15:05] <zcorpan> matjas: (i've asked anne & hixie to create that url)
  396. # [15:06] * Quits: tomasf (~tomasf@77.72.97.10.c.fiberdirekt.net) (Quit: tomasf)
  397. # [15:09] * Joins: danielfilho|w (~danielfil@200.232.113.107)
  398. # [15:09] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: about the dev.w3.org diffs doc, I can't make it read-only but I can add a redirect
  399. # [15:10] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: ok
  400. # [15:11] * Quits: JibberJim (~opera@132.185.151.37) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  401. # [15:11] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: i guess the new url for the w3c editor's draft is https://rawgithub.com/whatwg/html-differences/master/Overview.html
  402. # [15:11] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@132.185.151.37)
  403. # [15:11] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: or we could keep the old url but sync it from github maybe?
  404. # [15:11] <zcorpan> either way
  405. # [15:16] * Quits: danielfilho|w (~danielfil@200.232.113.107) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  406. # [15:16] * Joins: danielfilho|w (~danielfil@200.232.113.107)
  407. # [15:20] * Joins: TallTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  408. # [15:21] * Quits: danielfilho|w (~danielfil@200.232.113.107) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  409. # [15:22] <Ms2ger> annevk; http://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/86
  410. # [15:25] * Quits: manu1 (~chatzilla@pool-96-240-182-134.ronkva.east.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  411. # [15:26] * Joins: izhak (~izhak@31.47.123.21)
  412. # [15:31] * Joins: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com)
  413. # [15:32] * Joins: ehsan_ (~ehsan@24-212-206-174.cable.teksavvy.com)
  414. # [15:32] <hallvors> Ms2ger: should I create a new branch for the rest of the XHR test changes (to let you/anne/whoever review and merge the current stuff)?
  415. # [15:33] <hallvors> I can either make a new branch and pull request or keep checking in to the current, depending on what you think is better
  416. # [15:33] <Ms2ger> I'm not going to review them, I don't think :)
  417. # [15:34] <hallvors> so "no opinion", basically? :)
  418. # [15:35] <Ms2ger> Yep
  419. # [15:37] * Quits: gavin_ (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Remote host closed the connection)
  420. # [15:37] * Joins: gavin_ (~gavin@people1.scl3.mozilla.com)
  421. # [15:37] * Quits: gavin_ (~gavin@people1.scl3.mozilla.com) (Changing host)
  422. # [15:37] * Joins: gavin_ (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  423. # [15:38] * Joins: manu1 (~chatzilla@pool-96-240-182-26.ronkva.east.verizon.net)
  424. # [15:40] * [[zzz]] is now known as [[zz]]
  425. # [15:40] <zcorpan> hallvors: i'll probably review your changes but i don't mind either way
  426. # [15:45] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: better to just redirect it, I think
  427. # [15:45] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: OK
  428. # [15:46] * Joins: tomasf (~tomasf@static-88.131.62.36.addr.tdcsong.se)
  429. # [15:46] * Quits: hallvors (~hallvord@node-c4gb5la7r084ok.20.ipv6.opera.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  430. # [15:49] * Joins: newtron_ (~newtron@199.71.174.103)
  431. # [15:49] * Joins: aleray (~aleray@ip-83-101-33-9.customer.schedom-europe.net)
  432. # [15:51] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@199.71.174.103) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  433. # [15:51] * Joins: ripples (~ripples@197.87.199.240)
  434. # [15:52] * Quits: izhak (~izhak@31.47.123.21) (Remote host closed the connection)
  435. # [15:52] * Joins: izhak (~izhak@31.47.123.21)
  436. # [15:56] * Quits: aleray (~aleray@ip-83-101-33-9.customer.schedom-europe.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  437. # [16:04] * Joins: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron)
  438. # [16:06] * Joins: aleray (~aleray@ip-83-101-33-9.customer.schedom-europe.net)
  439. # [16:07] * Quits: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  440. # [16:07] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Quit: :tiuQ tiuq sah woclrak)
  441. # [16:07] * Quits: ehsan_ (~ehsan@24-212-206-174.cable.teksavvy.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  442. # [16:08] * Joins: scor (scor@nat/acquia/x-zyxiyucvqreodxqq)
  443. # [16:08] * Quits: scor (scor@nat/acquia/x-zyxiyucvqreodxqq) (Changing host)
  444. # [16:08] * Joins: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  445. # [16:08] * Joins: ehsan_ (~ehsan@24.212.206.174)
  446. # [16:09] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@101.18.192.69)
  447. # [16:13] * Quits: ehsan_ (~ehsan@24.212.206.174) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  448. # [16:17] * Joins: tobie (~tobielang@31-35-246.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  449. # [16:19] * Joins: tomasf_ (~tomasf@host-95-195-130-2.mobileonline.telia.com)
  450. # [16:19] * Quits: tomasf_ (~tomasf@host-95-195-130-2.mobileonline.telia.com) (Client Quit)
  451. # [16:21] * Quits: tomasf (~tomasf@static-88.131.62.36.addr.tdcsong.se) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  452. # [16:22] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com)
  453. # [16:23] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra)
  454. # [16:28] * Joins: linclark (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
  455. # [16:33] * Quits: mven_ (~mven@ip68-224-15-53.lv.lv.cox.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  456. # [16:38] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98)
  457. # [16:41] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  458. # [16:46] * Joins: mven (~mven@ip68-224-15-53.lv.lv.cox.net)
  459. # [16:47] * Joins: jmason (~jmason@174.137.103.143)
  460. # [16:47] <Ms2ger> <bz> if I'm going to review the futures spec
  461. # [16:47] <Ms2ger> <bz> should I read the promises/A+ spec first?
  462. # [16:49] * Joins: Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc4-reig5-2-0-cust637.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  463. # [16:51] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  464. # [16:51] <jgraham> No
  465. # [16:51] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: miketaylr)
  466. # [16:56] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98) (Remote host closed the connection)
  467. # [16:57] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@108-75-75-178.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  468. # [16:57] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98)
  469. # [17:02] * Quits: newtron_ (~newtron@199.71.174.103) (Remote host closed the connection)
  470. # [17:03] * Quits: mven (~mven@ip68-224-15-53.lv.lv.cox.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  471. # [17:05] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@vpnh038.ugent.be) (Quit: bbl)
  472. # [17:07] * Joins: irfaN (~irfaN@91.72.112.63)
  473. # [17:07] * Quits: irfaN (~irfaN@91.72.112.63) (Changing host)
  474. # [17:07] * Joins: irfaN (~irfaN@unaffiliated/irfan)
  475. # [17:13] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com)
  476. # [17:14] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  477. # [17:15] * Quits: ripples (~ripples@197.87.199.240) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  478. # [17:17] * Quits: Jedi_ (~Jedi@jedi.org) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  479. # [17:21] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@static-212-247-211-195.cust.tele2.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
  480. # [17:24] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  481. # [17:25] * Quits: irfaN (~irfaN@unaffiliated/irfan) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  482. # [17:31] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  483. # [17:32] * Joins: ImBcmDth (~Jon@pool-173-63-86-4.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
  484. # [17:33] * Joins: irfaN (~irfaN@unaffiliated/irfan)
  485. # [17:44] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@192.150.22.55)
  486. # [17:45] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  487. # [17:46] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98) (Remote host closed the connection)
  488. # [17:46] * Quits: Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc4-reig5-2-0-cust637.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  489. # [17:49] * Quits: mitemitreski (~mitemitre@212.120.17.179) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  490. # [17:50] * Joins: mven (~mven@69.194.133.103)
  491. # [17:50] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com)
  492. # [17:50] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98)
  493. # [17:53] * Quits: izhak (~izhak@31.47.123.21) (Remote host closed the connection)
  494. # [17:53] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com) (Client Quit)
  495. # [17:54] * Quits: charlie (~charlie@46.7.56.116) (Remote host closed the connection)
  496. # [17:54] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  497. # [17:55] * Joins: eric_carlson_ (~eric@17.212.152.104)
  498. # [17:55] * Quits: mven (~mven@69.194.133.103) (Remote host closed the connection)
  499. # [17:55] * Quits: eric_carlson (~eric@17.212.152.104) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  500. # [17:55] * eric_carlson_ is now known as eric_carlson
  501. # [17:55] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  502. # [17:55] * Quits: irfaN (~irfaN@unaffiliated/irfan) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  503. # [17:55] * Quits: danielfilho (~danielfil@200.233.52.248) (Remote host closed the connection)
  504. # [17:55] * Joins: irfaN (~irfaN@91.72.112.63)
  505. # [17:55] * Quits: irfaN (~irfaN@91.72.112.63) (Changing host)
  506. # [17:55] * Joins: irfaN (~irfaN@unaffiliated/irfan)
  507. # [17:57] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-gckcxmgyyzvdieya)
  508. # [17:57] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-gckcxmgyyzvdieya) (Changing host)
  509. # [17:57] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
  510. # [17:58] * Joins: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-bucbmfslxmngxcxm)
  511. # [17:59] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  512. # [17:59] * Quits: JibberJim (~opera@132.185.151.37) (Quit: JibberJim)
  513. # [18:00] * Joins: richt (~richt@222.233.254.208)
  514. # [18:01] * Quits: irfaN (~irfaN@unaffiliated/irfan) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  515. # [18:02] * Joins: irfaN (~irfaN@91.72.112.181)
  516. # [18:02] * Quits: irfaN (~irfaN@91.72.112.181) (Changing host)
  517. # [18:02] * Joins: irfaN (~irfaN@unaffiliated/irfan)
  518. # [18:02] * Quits: tobie (~tobielang@31-35-246.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Quit: tobie)
  519. # [18:04] * Quits: richt (~richt@222.233.254.208) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  520. # [18:04] * Quits: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  521. # [18:07] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  522. # [18:09] * Parts: will_i_was (~william@vpn.space150.com)
  523. # [18:10] * Joins: lecuyer (~user@144.142.12.1)
  524. # [18:11] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@94.137.124.2) (Quit: Leaving.)
  525. # [18:11] * Joins: kmczn (~kevin@static-24-113-122-130.wavecable.com)
  526. # [18:11] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@94.137.124.2)
  527. # [18:12] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@94.137.124.2) (Client Quit)
  528. # [18:14] * Joins: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled)
  529. # [18:18] <lecuyer> where are css decorators defined?
  530. # [18:19] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@89.143.12.238) (Quit: sedovsek)
  531. # [18:20] * Joins: Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc4-reig5-2-0-cust637.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  532. # [18:21] * Quits: aleray (~aleray@ip-83-101-33-9.customer.schedom-europe.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  533. # [18:21] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  534. # [18:22] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-mldzfbfonldqcczd)
  535. # [18:22] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-mldzfbfonldqcczd) (Changing host)
  536. # [18:22] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
  537. # [18:22] * Joins: YourWebDevGuy (~yourwebde@75.92.84.106)
  538. # [18:22] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@28.33.210.207.scpe.sourcecable.net)
  539. # [18:27] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@vev69-1-82-232-219-95.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  540. # [18:29] * Joins: say2joe (~say2joe@204.56.108.2)
  541. # [18:30] * Quits: Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc4-reig5-2-0-cust637.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
  542. # [18:30] * Quits: benbarnett (~Adium@80.87.30.115) (Quit: Leaving.)
  543. # [18:30] * Joins: farfanoide (~farfanoid@190.50.32.99)
  544. # [18:31] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  545. # [18:32] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  546. # [18:33] * Joins: aklein (uid4454@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ntfjgdwinhtqglyl)
  547. # [18:34] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.111.225)
  548. # [18:37] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  549. # [18:38] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98) (Remote host closed the connection)
  550. # [18:42] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  551. # [18:43] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98)
  552. # [18:50] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no)
  553. # [18:52] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-104-253.dsl.telepac.pt)
  554. # [18:55] * Quits: farfanoide (~farfanoid@190.50.32.99) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  555. # [18:57] * Joins: garciawebdev (~garciaweb@11-223-235-201.fibertel.com.ar)
  556. # [18:57] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@ip-134.net-89-2-126.rev.numericable.fr)
  557. # [19:00] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  558. # [19:00] <MikeSmith> oh man this is rich
  559. # [19:00] <MikeSmith> Opera suing Trond Hansen
  560. # [19:00] <MikeSmith> for giving away secrets to Mozilla
  561. # [19:01] <nimbu> MikeSmith: OMG
  562. # [19:01] <MikeSmith> maybe they should instead be suing him for not doing the actual job he was paid for even while he was working there
  563. # [19:01] <MikeSmith> or even bothering to, say, show up for work
  564. # [19:01] <nimbu> this is just
  565. # [19:01] <nimbu> fucked up
  566. # [19:01] <nimbu> so fucked up
  567. # [19:01] <nimbu> i dont know what to say
  568. # [19:01] <MikeSmith> nimbu: strange times
  569. # [19:02] <nimbu> sighhhhhh
  570. # [19:02] <nimbu> MikeSmith: i suppose you and I should be wary too :)
  571. # [19:02] <MikeSmith> heh
  572. # [19:02] <odinho> quite the shock yeah.
  573. # [19:02] <MikeSmith> yeah, look out!
  574. # [19:02] <MikeSmith> "describes himself as an artist, songwriter, and designer"
  575. # [19:02] <nimbu> ahahaha
  576. # [19:02] <MikeSmith> in that order, I bet
  577. # [19:03] <MikeSmith> to be fair I guess he did some years trying to get some UI innovations into Opera only to have Jon reject all of them
  578. # [19:04] <MikeSmith> so maybe he just gave up
  579. # [19:04] * Joins: tobie (~tobielang@31-35-246.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  580. # [19:05] <nimbu> :(
  581. # [19:05] <MikeSmith> would be really ironic for Opera to sue him for "stealing" his own ideas that Opera management rejected
  582. # [19:05] <nimbu> gawddd
  583. # [19:05] <nimbu> everybody working for Opera please dont open your mouths
  584. # [19:05] * Quits: jryans (~jryans@cpe-70-113-92-118.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: Be back later)
  585. # [19:06] <MikeSmith> new meme
  586. # [19:06] <MikeSmith> "Opera, Please Don't Sue Me"
  587. # [19:07] * Joins: danielfilho (~danielfil@200.232.113.107)
  588. # [19:07] * Joins: isherman1 (isherman@nat/google/x-ysbgewjipmvaggrc)
  589. # [19:07] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  590. # [19:08] <MikeSmith> wait maybe this is the new business strategy
  591. # [19:08] * Quits: YourWebDevGuy (~yourwebde@75.92.84.106) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  592. # [19:08] <nimbu> :(
  593. # [19:08] <MikeSmith> wait for all Opera employees to implement new ideas at other companies
  594. # [19:08] <MikeSmith> then sue them
  595. # [19:08] <nimbu> MikeSmith: be careful they may sue you also
  596. # [19:09] <MikeSmith> s/Opera employees/former Opera employees/
  597. # [19:09] <MikeSmith> nimbu: blood from a stone
  598. # [19:09] <MikeSmith> they are welcome to share my debts
  599. # [19:10] <MikeSmith> I already drank up all the profits I made from business ideas I stole from Opera
  600. # [19:10] <nimbu> ahahahhaha
  601. # [19:10] * Quits: isherman (isherman@nat/google/x-yurmerimgaypdwmq) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  602. # [19:12] * Quits: Badreddin (~Nur@189.192.155.69) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  603. # [19:14] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.111.225) (Quit: weinig)
  604. # [19:15] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@nat/mozilla/x-nhqqtyztpdrnjxfn)
  605. # [19:18] * Quits: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  606. # [19:19] * Joins: danielfilho|w (~danielfil@200.232.113.107)
  607. # [19:22] * Joins: sgalineau (~sylvaing@sjfw1-a.adobe.com)
  608. # [19:22] * Joins: farfanoide (~farfanoid@190.50.27.223)
  609. # [19:23] <TabAtkins> gsnedders: I'm using html5lib in Python2.7, but that's largely because the libraries I wanted seemed easiest to install there. On the other hand, I'm probably fine with just not receiving updates, so long as the Python2 version is archived somewhere I can point to. ^_^
  610. # [19:24] * Quits: danielfilho|w (~danielfil@200.232.113.107) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  611. # [19:24] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: It's not happening.
  612. # [19:25] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.111.225)
  613. # [19:25] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: It'd be nice for when I get around to rewriting the InputStream (as it avoids the one case we reparse currently), but we'll see how the ecosystem is then.
  614. # [19:25] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: Quite possibly will do that and just reparse under Py2.
  615. # [19:26] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:224:d7ff:fef0:8d90)
  616. # [19:26] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: Or try and work out some hack to avoid it under Py2, dunno.
  617. # [19:27] <SimonSapin> gsnedders: is html5lib dropping python 2 support?
  618. # [19:27] <gsnedders> SimonSapin: "It's not happening".
  619. # [19:27] <gsnedders> SimonSapin: I was cursing yesterday I wish we could.
  620. # [19:27] <SimonSapin> ok, good :)
  621. # [19:28] <gsnedders> SimonSapin: Only thing that's at risk is 3.0/3.1 support
  622. # [19:28] <gsnedders> And that's mostly because it's untested, rather than anything fundemental.
  623. # [19:28] <SimonSapin> nobody uses 3.0
  624. # [19:28] <gsnedders> Indeed.
  625. # [19:28] <SimonSapin> and I’m thinking of dropping 3.1 support in weasyprint and various libs
  626. # [19:29] <SimonSapin> so I wouldn’t miss it
  627. # [19:29] <gsnedders> Likely we'll drop "official" support but practically it's unlikely to break.
  628. # [19:29] <TabAtkins> I like Python 3. :/
  629. # [19:29] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: you still have 3.2 and 3.3
  630. # [19:29] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: 3.0.3/1 aren't everything. :P
  631. # [19:29] <TabAtkins> Oh! Okay, never mind then.
  632. # [19:30] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: The main reason html5lib might drop old Py3 is the lack of testing on them.
  633. # [19:30] <gsnedders> We're well tested on 2.6/2.7/3.2/3.3
  634. # [19:32] * Quits: adactio (~adactio@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com) (Quit: adactio)
  635. # [19:32] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  636. # [19:32] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98)
  637. # [19:32] * Quits: ^esc (~esc_ape@77.117.246.158.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  638. # [19:36] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.111.225) (Quit: weinig)
  639. # [19:37] * Joins: izhak (~izhak@31.47.123.21)
  640. # [19:39] * Joins: jryans (~jryans@rrcs-24-73-248-195.sw.biz.rr.com)
  641. # [19:39] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  642. # [19:39] * Quits: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra) (Quit: Leaving)
  643. # [19:43] * Joins: Badreddin (~Nur@189.192.138.187)
  644. # [19:46] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  645. # [19:47] <MikeSmith> I wonder what "packability of the DOM code" means
  646. # [19:48] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-104-253.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  647. # [19:48] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@28.33.210.207.scpe.sourcecable.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  648. # [19:50] * Joins: SteveF_ (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  649. # [19:51] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  650. # [19:52] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  651. # [19:52] * SteveF_ is now known as SteveF
  652. # [19:56] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@193.190.253.146)
  653. # [19:56] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-50-136-134-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: othermaciej)
  654. # [19:58] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  655. # [19:59] * Quits: shaundunne (uid5048@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-askkxpxrzldilifa) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  656. # [20:00] * Quits: ahf (ahf@irssi/staff/ahf) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  657. # [20:01] * Joins: ahf (ahf@irssi/staff/ahf)
  658. # [20:01] * Joins: ap_ (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:f837:524e:23de:6efd)
  659. # [20:02] * Joins: reybango (~reybango@2001:4898:0:fff:0:5efe:ac13:4062)
  660. # [20:03] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-104-253.dsl.telepac.pt)
  661. # [20:05] * Quits: danielfilho (~danielfil@200.232.113.107) (Remote host closed the connection)
  662. # [20:05] <Garbee> Can dialog elements be used outside of <th> and <dt> elements? The spec says they are where it *can* be used, but it doesn't say only may be used within. http://developers.whatwg.org/commands.html#the-dialog-element
  663. # [20:06] <TabAtkins> "Where flow content is expected".
  664. # [20:06] <TabAtkins> The weird special cases are because <th> and <dt> don't accept arbitrary flow content.
  665. # [20:07] <TabAtkins> So, any element with "Content Model: flow content;" can contain a dialog.
  666. # [20:07] * Joins: danielfilho|w (~danielfil@200.232.113.107)
  667. # [20:10] <Garbee> Yea. I'd assume W3Schools simply used a table in their demo since that is pointed out as a use-case for a dialog. But their tip on it is wrong.
  668. # [20:11] * Quits: irfaN (~irfaN@unaffiliated/irfan) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  669. # [20:13] * Joins: zapo (~sumo@acd41300654.wireless.rit.edu)
  670. # [20:14] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@static-212-247-211-195.cust.tele2.se)
  671. # [20:15] * Quits: izhak (~izhak@31.47.123.21) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  672. # [20:15] * Quits: Badreddin (~Nur@189.192.138.187) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  673. # [20:15] <TabAtkins> Garbee: W3Schools is often wrong, and often terrible. Don't learn from them. ^_^
  674. # [20:16] * Joins: Badreddin (~Nur@189.192.138.187)
  675. # [20:16] <TabAtkins> Use a better learning resource, like HTMLDog.com, or pretty much anything, anywhere.
  676. # [20:18] * Joins: jryans_ (~jryans@75.92.33.19)
  677. # [20:18] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no)
  678. # [20:19] * Quits: jryans (~jryans@rrcs-24-73-248-195.sw.biz.rr.com) (Disconnected by services)
  679. # [20:19] * jryans_ is now known as jryans
  680. # [20:21] * Joins: alecf (alecf@nat/google/x-kagqxtwczfaotpeq)
  681. # [20:22] <Garbee> TabAtkins, nah, I was trying to figure out an issue someone reported on W3Fools.
  682. # [20:22] <TabAtkins> Ah, carry on then.
  683. # [20:22] <Garbee> I tend to read the spec itself and then learn implementation from seeing people do things.
  684. # [20:23] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  685. # [20:24] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.212.155.191)
  686. # [20:25] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@193.190.253.146) (Quit: Leaving)
  687. # [20:25] * Joins: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com)
  688. # [20:25] * Quits: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  689. # [20:29] * Quits: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@111-250-146-153.dynamic.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  690. # [20:30] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@193.190.253.146)
  691. # [20:31] <Garbee> TabAtkins, Also, I feel obligated to say also that http://www.webplatform.org is a great doc resource. ;) That should be first to mind when recommending somewhere for people to learn from.
  692. # [20:32] <Garbee> (Yes, it still has issues but we are working on them.)
  693. # [20:33] * Joins: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@111-250-146-153.dynamic.hinet.net)
  694. # [20:35] <Ms2ger> Can you get rid of the references to initProgressEvent, then?
  695. # [20:35] <Ms2ger> And the other init*Events, for that matter
  696. # [20:35] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  697. # [20:37] * Quits: reybango (~reybango@2001:4898:0:fff:0:5efe:ac13:4062) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  698. # [20:38] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.212.155.191) (Quit: weinig)
  699. # [20:39] * Quits: Badreddin (~Nur@189.192.138.187) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  700. # [20:40] * Joins: Badreddin (~Nur@189.192.138.187)
  701. # [20:43] <Garbee> Ms2ger, Were you talking to me about removing those references from WPD?
  702. # [20:45] <Ms2ger> Sounds like work on it?
  703. # [20:46] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13)
  704. # [20:47] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@17.212.154.114)
  705. # [20:47] <Garbee> Well, we have references to it. But I don't see any reason to remove them.
  706. # [20:48] <Ms2ger> It's being removed from implementations
  707. # [20:50] <Garbee> It is a CR spec. So where is confirmation of it being removed? If it is being dropped then it is something I should bring up with the mailing list on how we should deal with it.
  708. # [20:51] <Ms2ger> It's not in the spec either: http://xhr.spec.whatwg.org/#interface-progressevent
  709. # [20:51] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  710. # [20:53] <Garbee> What isn't in the spec?
  711. # [20:53] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-197-111.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  712. # [20:53] <jgraham> Anyone know anything about pointer events? https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/90 isn't super-convincing at first glance but I don't know the spec
  713. # [20:54] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-197-111.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  714. # [20:55] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  715. # [20:55] <Ms2ger> assert_equals(typeof ev[name], "DOMString"
  716. # [20:55] <Ms2ger> No, not terribly convincing
  717. # [20:55] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@199.71.174.103)
  718. # [20:59] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  719. # [21:00] * Parts: say2joe (~say2joe@204.56.108.2)
  720. # [21:01] <jgraham> Hmm, I wonder who Cathy Chan is
  721. # [21:05] * Quits: Badreddin (~Nur@189.192.138.187) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  722. # [21:06] * Joins: Badreddin (~Nur@189.192.138.187)
  723. # [21:09] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  724. # [21:09] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  725. # [21:13] * Quits: Zauberfisch|idle (~Zauberfis@2a01:4f8:100:73c3::3) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  726. # [21:13] * Joins: Hans_Henrik (~Hans_Henr@ti0131a340-0508.bb.online.no)
  727. # [21:13] * Joins: Zauberfisch|idle (~Zauberfis@2a01:4f8:100:73c3::3)
  728. # [21:18] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@193.190.253.146) (Quit: nn)
  729. # [21:19] * Joins: ^esc (~esc_ape@178.115.251.34.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
  730. # [21:21] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-197-111.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  731. # [21:22] * Joins: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
  732. # [21:22] * Parts: Hans_Henrik (~Hans_Henr@ti0131a340-0508.bb.online.no) ("Leaving")
  733. # [21:23] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.114.108.14)
  734. # [21:24] * Quits: farfanoide (~farfanoid@190.50.27.223) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  735. # [21:26] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@c80-216-10-244.bredband.comhem.se)
  736. # [21:26] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@c80-216-10-244.bredband.comhem.se) (Client Quit)
  737. # [21:27] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  738. # [21:27] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  739. # [21:28] * Joins: farfanoide (~farfanoid@186.130.6.209)
  740. # [21:28] * Quits: farfanoide (~farfanoid@186.130.6.209) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  741. # [21:30] * Joins: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@2001:980:9368:1:c935:7c24:fae8:e582)
  742. # [21:35] * Joins: farfanoide (~farfanoid@186.130.6.209)
  743. # [21:44] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  744. # [21:45] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  745. # [21:45] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  746. # [21:49] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  747. # [21:52] * Quits: farfanoide (~farfanoid@186.130.6.209) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
  748. # [21:53] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.114.108.14) (Quit: othermaciej)
  749. # [21:54] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.114.108.14)
  750. # [21:55] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  751. # [21:57] * Quits: tobie (~tobielang@31-35-246.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Quit: tobie)
  752. # [22:00] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.19.229.getinternet.no) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  753. # [22:01] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  754. # [22:02] * Quits: TallTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  755. # [22:05] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net)
  756. # [22:06] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.19.229.getinternet.no)
  757. # [22:09] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: miketaylr)
  758. # [22:09] * Quits: aklein (uid4454@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ntfjgdwinhtqglyl) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  759. # [22:10] * Joins: aklein (uid4454@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bghdmzosglcdtklg)
  760. # [22:10] * Joins: shaundunne (uid5048@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wizwdgczlwkmqiqn)
  761. # [22:15] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.212.155.191)
  762. # [22:15] * Quits: josemanuel (~josemanue@58.190.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) (Quit: Saliendo)
  763. # [22:19] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@static-212-247-211-195.cust.tele2.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
  764. # [22:19] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net) (Quit: tantek)
  765. # [22:20] * Joins: irfaN (~irfaN@91.72.112.185)
  766. # [22:20] * Quits: irfaN (~irfaN@91.72.112.185) (Changing host)
  767. # [22:20] * Joins: irfaN (~irfaN@unaffiliated/irfan)
  768. # [22:21] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net)
  769. # [22:21] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@nat/mozilla/x-nhqqtyztpdrnjxfn) (Quit: bholley)
  770. # [22:21] * Quits: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com) (Quit: yodasw16)
  771. # [22:21] * ap_ is now known as ap
  772. # [22:22] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@8.25.197.25)
  773. # [22:27] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  774. # [22:27] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  775. # [22:28] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  776. # [22:29] * Quits: jryans (~jryans@75.92.33.19) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  777. # [22:30] * chee is now known as Guest
  778. # [22:32] * Quits: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:f837:524e:23de:6efd) (Quit: ap)
  779. # [22:32] * Joins: ap (~ap@17.245.104.102)
  780. # [22:32] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.212.155.191) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  781. # [22:33] * Joins: ap_ (~ap@17.245.104.102)
  782. # [22:34] * Quits: ap (~ap@17.245.104.102) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  783. # [22:34] * ap_ is now known as ap
  784. # [22:34] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  785. # [22:35] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@199.71.174.103) (Remote host closed the connection)
  786. # [22:35] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@nat/mozilla/x-psmokfxelffrcwlk)
  787. # [22:36] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  788. # [22:36] * Guest is now known as chee
  789. # [22:37] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.111.225)
  790. # [22:37] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  791. # [22:38] * Joins: jryans (~jryans@rrcs-24-73-248-195.sw.biz.rr.com)
  792. # [22:39] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@ip-134.net-89-2-126.rev.numericable.fr) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  793. # [22:41] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  794. # [22:43] <TabAtkins> Hixie: How do you come up with such believable attack scenarios?
  795. # [22:45] <Hixie> is that sarcasm or sincere? :-)
  796. # [22:45] <Hixie> i didn't think it was that believable...
  797. # [22:45] <TabAtkins> Sincere!
  798. # [22:45] <gsnedders> "Being evil" is the answer Tarquin would give.
  799. # [22:45] <Hixie> TabAtkins: i dunno man
  800. # [22:46] <Hixie> anyone here have opinions on margin collapsing quirks?
  801. # [22:46] <TabAtkins> I might?
  802. # [22:47] <Hixie> i'm looking at https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=15993
  803. # [22:47] <Hixie> trying to work out whether to do it in some sort of CSS syntax, or in prose
  804. # [22:47] <Hixie> i'm thinking prose might be the only sane way to do it
  805. # [22:48] <jgraham> I assume zcorpan would have opinions
  806. # [22:48] <jgraham> If he was here
  807. # [22:48] <Hixie> he's made them known on the bug, luckily :-)
  808. # [22:48] <jgraham> Then I was right!
  809. # [22:48] <jgraham> Hurrah!
  810. # [22:48] <jgraham> ;)
  811. # [22:48] <TabAtkins> Okay, I don't have an opinion on this, except that it should be defined in Quirks, not in HTML. Put all that shit together.
  812. # [22:49] <Hixie> surely "quirks" shouldn't exist
  813. # [22:49] <Hixie> should just be in the various specs
  814. # [22:49] <TabAtkins> Sure it should - you have a nice, compact list of crazy exceptions.
  815. # [22:49] <TabAtkins> Rather than spreading them around.
  816. # [22:49] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  817. # [22:49] <Hixie> there's "quirks" in the html parser, and i'm pretty sure we don't want the html parser spec split into multiple files
  818. # [22:50] <TabAtkins> I mean, really individual quirks, sure, put them next to the stuff they're quirking.
  819. # [22:50] <TabAtkins> But margin collapsing in table cells?
  820. # [22:50] <TabAtkins> Sure, parsers are different. ^_^
  821. # [22:50] <Hixie> almost the entire rendering section in the html spec is just a long list of "quirks"
  822. # [22:50] <Hixie> this is just one more in that section :-)
  823. # [22:52] <TabAtkins> Well, if it's expressible in CSS like Gecko does, then whatever.
  824. # [22:56] <Hixie> CSS uses proprietary selectors to express it
  825. # [22:56] <TabAtkins> :moz-only-whitespace isn't proprietary any longer - it's now :blank in the Selectors 4 draft.
  826. # [22:56] <Hixie> ooo
  827. # [22:57] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  828. # [22:59] <jgraham> blank?
  829. # [22:59] <jgraham> that's a... surprising name
  830. # [22:59] <TabAtkins> Needed a name that was the same as :empty, but not :empty.
  831. # [23:00] <TabAtkins> :blank is short and a close synonym, so whatever.
  832. # [23:00] <jgraham> Why "the same as empty"?
  833. # [23:01] <jgraham> It seems like expressing something different to :empty with a synonym for "empty" is an expressway to confusion
  834. # [23:01] <TabAtkins> Shrug, we got :empty wrong.
  835. # [23:01] <TabAtkins> But probably can't kill it.
  836. # [23:02] <TabAtkins> I think I'm supposed to track usage of it in Blink and see what pops out.
  837. # [23:02] <jgraham> So to make up for it you will get :blank wrong too?
  838. # [23:02] <jgraham> Interesting strategy
  839. # [23:02] <TabAtkins> Hm?
  840. # [23:02] <jgraham> s/get it worg/give it a bad name/ is you like
  841. # [23:02] <jgraham> *wrong
  842. # [23:03] <jgraham> Anyway, I think I should try sleeping or something
  843. # [23:03] <jgraham> *if
  844. # [23:03] <jgraham> (see)
  845. # [23:03] <jgraham> (sleeping++)
  846. # [23:04] * Quits: zapo (~sumo@acd41300654.wireless.rit.edu) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  847. # [23:04] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  848. # [23:05] <Hixie> man, i hope microsoft appreciates the pain i'm going through trying to test their browser
  849. # [23:06] * Quits: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  850. # [23:06] * Joins: yorick (~yorick@oftn/member/yorick)
  851. # [23:07] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  852. # [23:07] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  853. # [23:07] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  854. # [23:08] <Hixie> there's like, no interop in edge cases around margin collapsing
  855. # [23:08] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Client Quit)
  856. # [23:09] <Hixie> <style>html { background: purple; } body { background: lime; } div { margin: 1px; }</style><div><h1>Test</h1></div>
  857. # [23:09] <Hixie> different in every rendering engine
  858. # [23:09] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net)
  859. # [23:10] <lecuyer> am I the only one who thinks :blank and :empty aren't that bad of names?
  860. # [23:10] <Hixie> firefox doesn't collapse even if the div has no margin, chrome/safari collapse if the div doesn't have a margin but do otherwise, IE doesn't give the <h1> margins regardless of the <div>'s
  861. # [23:10] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-104-253.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  862. # [23:11] <Hixie> man, IE tries hard to avoid giving margins to stuff at the top
  863. # [23:12] <Hixie> even with <body><div><span></span></div><div><h1> the h1 still has no margins unless i give the span a border
  864. # [23:12] * Joins: nephyrin (~neph@nat/mozilla/x-jbkgzwyzhlnnvmqp)
  865. # [23:13] <Hixie> hm, chrome/safari are pretty enthusiastic about this too
  866. # [23:14] <Hixie> hmmmm
  867. # [23:15] * Quits: Badreddin (~Nur@189.192.138.187) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  868. # [23:15] * Joins: Badreddin (~Nur@189.192.138.187)
  869. # [23:16] * Quits: zdobersek (~zdobersek@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
  870. # [23:17] <Hixie> hypothesis: any UA-set margin that would collapse with the <html>'s top margin collapses to zero.
  871. # [23:17] <Hixie> (in IE)
  872. # [23:17] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  873. # [23:18] * Hixie ponders how to disprove that hypothesis
  874. # [23:20] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  875. # [23:21] * Joins: tobie (~tobielang@31-35-77.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  876. # [23:21] * Joins: zapo (~sumo@acd41300654.wireless.rit.edu)
  877. # [23:23] * Joins: benbarnett (~Adium@46-64-75-135.zone15.bethere.co.uk)
  878. # [23:24] * Quits: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@2001:980:9368:1:c935:7c24:fae8:e582) (Remote host closed the connection)
  879. # [23:25] * Joins: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229)
  880. # [23:26] * Joins: sindresorhus (~sindresor@82.147.51.146)
  881. # [23:27] * Joins: YourWebDevGuy (~yourwebde@75.92.84.106)
  882. # [23:28] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.111.225) (Quit: weinig)
  883. # [23:30] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  884. # [23:30] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com)
  885. # [23:30] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.114.108.14) (Quit: othermaciej)
  886. # [23:30] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  887. # [23:30] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.111.225)
  888. # [23:32] * Quits: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229) (Remote host closed the connection)
  889. # [23:32] * Joins: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229)
  890. # [23:33] * Quits: yorick (~yorick@oftn/member/yorick) (Remote host closed the connection)
  891. # [23:33] <Hixie> i cannot find any way to disprove this hypothesis
  892. # [23:33] <Hixie> could it really be this simple?
  893. # [23:34] * Quits: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  894. # [23:34] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.114.108.14)
  895. # [23:34] * Joins: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  896. # [23:35] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@8.25.197.25) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  897. # [23:35] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@8.25.197.25)
  898. # [23:36] * Quits: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Client Quit)
  899. # [23:37] * Quits: benbarnett (~Adium@46-64-75-135.zone15.bethere.co.uk) (Quit: Leaving.)
  900. # [23:38] * Joins: eresair (~eresair@c-71-198-63-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  901. # [23:41] * Quits: Badreddin (~Nur@189.192.138.187) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  902. # [23:42] * Joins: Badreddin (~Nur@189.192.138.187)
  903. # [23:44] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  904. # [23:51] * Joins: izhak (~izhak@31.47.123.21)
  905. # [23:52] * Quits: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229) (Remote host closed the connection)
  906. # [23:53] * Quits: zapo (~sumo@acd41300654.wireless.rit.edu) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  907. # [23:53] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  908. # [23:53] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  909. # [23:55] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  910. # [23:56] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Quit: Leaving)
  911. # [23:59] * Joins: danielfilho (~danielfil@200.232.113.107)
  912. # Session Close: Tue Apr 30 00:00:00 2013

The end :)