/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-05-14 / end

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  41. # [01:25] <annevk> Not sure if anyone referenced this last July, but it's pretty interesting: http://www.drdobbs.com/architecture-and-design/interview-with-alan-kay/240003442?pgno=2
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  83. # [02:38] <annevk> Future.from(futureLike) -> 1. O is ToObject(futureLike) 2. then is Get(O, "then") 3. then.[[Call]](O, acceptCallback, rejectCallback)
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  86. # [02:46] <annevk> (re-raise exceptions)
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  165. # [06:21] <annevk5> @whatwg now has more followers than HTML has commits.
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  259. # [09:51] <zcorpan> http://www.w3.org/mid/CAAWBYDDYihkKdCMj1hd3H=mkhxurZkss9wqkY-8HABAzPLvsOw@mail.gmail.com :-(
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  281. # [10:30] <zcorpan> so in cssom-view, if i want to say "fire a scroll event at the document when the viewport is scrolled", what's the right jargon for "the document"?
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  285. # [10:31] <zcorpan> viewport -> browsing context -> window -> active document ?
  286. # [10:32] <zcorpan> or just viewport -> document?
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  342. # [12:31] <jgraham> zcorpan: browsing context > active document, I think
  343. # [12:31] <jgraham> Well probably viewport > browsing context > active document
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  355. # Session Close: Tue May 14 12:50:56 2013
  356. #
  357. # Session Start: Tue May 14 12:50:56 2013
  358. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  359. # [12:50] * Disconnected
  360. # [17:20] * Attempting to rejoin channel #whatwg
  361. # [17:20] * Rejoined channel #whatwg
  362. # [17:20] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ & http://logbot.glob.com.au/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  363. # [17:20] * Set by smaug____!~chatzilla@GGZYYCCCXVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi on Wed Mar 21 17:14:24
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  367. # [17:20] <zcorpan> maybe it's less hairy to have a new method? that's also possible to feature-check
  368. # [17:21] * zcorpan looks at https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17152
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  394. # [17:45] <jgraham> I wonder how darobin managed to decide which parts of HTML are interoperable despite having no tests
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  397. # [17:51] <gsnedders> His magic wand.
  398. # [17:53] <annevk> zcorpan: don't forget to queue a task
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  401. # [17:58] <hallvors> stuff everything and everybody relies on should be pretty interoperable. Though having tests would be better, obviously :)
  402. # [17:58] * JakeA_ is now known as JakeA
  403. # [18:01] <jgraham> Well if that was true then most sites would work in all browsers with little cross-browser testing
  404. # [18:01] <jgraham> Or, at least, there would be a substantial subset of functionality that one could confidently use without cross-browser testing
  405. # [18:02] <jgraham> It strikes me that subset isn't ibviously as large as that document would suggest
  406. # [18:03] <jgraham> e.g. the <img> element is marked as "interoperable". But are the details of img.complete interoperable, inclusing whether the status changes in the middle of scripts or only between scripts?
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  408. # [18:03] <jgraham> (I'm pretty sure they are not)
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  413. # [18:05] <jgraham> Similarly I'm prestty sure that HTMLFormControlsCollection has interop issues given that Ms2ger was complaining the other day about the state of the Gecko implementation and asking if we had tests
  414. # [18:05] * Quits: bzed (~bzed@devel.recluse.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  415. # [18:05] <jgraham> hallvors: (do you know of any tests for named getters on that btw?)
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  418. # [18:06] <jgraham> And clearly any part of the document that depends on WebIDL isn't interoperable
  419. # [18:06] <jgraham> So there is something between "fantasy" and "unstated assumptions"
  420. # [18:06] <jgraham> in the green parts of this document
  421. # [18:09] <hallvors> jgraham: /core/bts/visual/155403/002.html might be interesting, for example..
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  423. # [18:10] <jgraham> hallvors: Oh, it might be indeed
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  430. # [18:17] * Ms2ger listens carefully
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  433. # [18:19] <hallvors> jgraham: /core/bts/javascript/195620/001.html is close to what you might be looking for too. Maybe with a small addition..
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  436. # [18:22] <jgraham> hallvors: Nice.
  437. # [18:22] <jgraham> I will find some time to testharnessify these. Shoudn't take long
  438. # [18:23] <jgraham> They both pass in gecko though, so I wouldn't get all that excited
  439. # [18:23] <jgraham> if I were Ms2ger, at least
  440. # [18:24] <hallvors> heh. Looking at old tests is a trip down memory lane. 219245 was a bad bug, back in those days..
  441. # [18:24] <Ms2ger> Better than nothing :)
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  444. # [18:25] <jgraham> If you are rewriting the code, I guess it is
  445. # [18:25] * Krinkle_ is now known as Krinkle
  446. # [18:26] <wilhelm> There's a lot of good stuff on that server.
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  453. # [18:30] <hallvors> jgraham: older and more hairy: /core/standards/scripts/jstest-futhark/js-regression/msie_collections.html - not sure if I really would want those old tests shared with the world :-p
  454. # [18:31] <hallvors> anyway, I'll get back to XHR stuff now..
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  456. # [18:31] <hallvors> wilhelm: it's also mostly disorganised :)
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  460. # [18:33] <jgraham> Right, hallvors and a few others are the only reasonable search indexes
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  462. # [18:34] <jgraham> Although I wonder… could be fun to get something like Google code search running for it
  463. # [18:34] <Ms2ger> If you zip it up and send me a copy, I'll be happy to become another search index ;)
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  465. # [18:35] <jgraham> Hah, could be hard to get approval for that :)
  466. # [18:36] <Ms2ger> How unfortunate :)
  467. # [18:37] <gsnedders> But, hey, hopefully more and more getting released.
  468. # [18:37] <gsnedders> hallvors: tbh, I wasn't really planning on trying to release any of the jstest-futhark stuff
  469. # [18:37] <Ms2ger> gsnedders, pretty please? :)
  470. # [18:38] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: This is like half of what I'm doing this summer. ;)
  471. # [18:38] <Ms2ger> gsnedders++
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  473. # [18:38] <hallvors> quite. Unfortunately that msie_collections stuff might be the one that's most interesting to Ms2ger.. :-o
  474. # [18:39] <hallvors> though some of it looks like a long-abandoned work-in-progress
  475. # [18:39] <hallvors> (doesn't that describe the web too? :-])
  476. # [18:39] <wilhelm> jgraham: Handing the entire repo out to key people might be easier to get approval for than a public dump.
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  478. # [18:40] <hallvors> well, with that new open source engine we should try to actually think like an open source organisation eventually :-p
  479. # [18:40] <wilhelm> That would be nice. (c:
  480. # [18:41] <hallvors> (don't hold your breath :( many insiders wanted that for a long time already)
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  483. # [18:43] <wilhelm> I'm familiar with the problem. (c:
  484. # [18:45] <Ms2ger> Almost makes it sound as if you've worked for Opera! ;)
  485. # [18:46] <hallvors> and sure, I agree - since we have tests that aren't clean and modern enough to release them with PR bells and whistles, we can still probably get approval to contribute some of them to certain persons or projects. Certainly in this day and age where we're less focused on the engine.
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  487. # [18:49] <wilhelm> Ms2ger: ... Almost sounds like I've been in charge of the department writing all those tests, banging my head against metaphorical office-politics walls for years! (c:
  488. # [18:52] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
  489. # [18:53] <wilhelm> hallvors: Yes. Find a key person at Mozilla, Google, Apple and Microsoft, send them a full dump with a disclaimer. "Do not release publicly before all third-party code with dodgy licenses have been removed."
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  520. # [19:41] <jgraham> Sunset for Presto
  521. # [19:41] <jgraham> Yet QA of years gone by
  522. # [19:41] <jgraham> Still only on t
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  525. # [19:43] <wilhelm> Poetry.
  526. # [19:47] <Ms2ger> Haiku.
  527. # [19:49] <jgraham> I think the word you are looking for is "terrible"
  528. # [19:50] <Ms2ger> No comment :)
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  532. # [19:56] <astearns> any poetry
  533. # [19:56] <astearns> can be doggerel, such as
  534. # [19:56] <astearns> terrible haiku
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  536. # [19:57] <Ms2ger> Anyone lower?
  537. # [20:00] <odinho> *shrug*
  538. # [20:09] <hallvors> hours of attention
  539. # [20:09] <hallvors> does not guarantee success
  540. # [20:09] <hallvors> presto dies
  541. # [20:12] <marcosc> mmm... pesto
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  543. # [20:24] <jgraham> Self-referential
  544. # [20:24] <jgraham> nonsense wins competiton
  545. # [20:24] <jgraham> for awful haiku
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  555. # [20:36] * Ms2ger wonders what http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-perf/2013May/0053.html is on about
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  564. # [20:51] <hallvors> one can get certain browsers into a state where they send OPTIONS request with Authorization: headers. Interesting sight.
  565. # [20:52] <hallvors> anyway, annevk: you might find https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/7a87ac3b?review=86 interesting
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  567. # [20:53] <annevk> hallvors: a CORS preflight or just a request using OPTIONS?
  568. # [20:53] <hallvors> CORS
  569. # [20:53] <annevk> whoa
  570. # [20:53] * ojan_away is now known as ojan
  571. # [20:53] <annevk> that's a bug
  572. # [20:54] <hallvors> you might want to ban that explicitly somewhere :)
  573. # [20:54] <hallvors> interestingly, both Presto and Chromium did it
  574. # [20:54] <hallvors> perhaps after prompts and manual input..
  575. # [20:55] <hallvors> having written some tests and looked at implementations, I think we should just not use user/pass from open() in CORS requests - call it a network error instead. However, I think setRequestHeader() should work.
  576. # [20:56] <hallvors> (although it doesn't in current implementations.. but that just looks buggy..)
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  578. # [21:01] <hallvors> sigh.. http://w3c-test.org/web-platform-tests/submissions/103/XMLHttpRequest/send-authentication-cors-basic-setrequestheader.htm is completely broken on the w3c-test.org server because PHP isn't allowed to handle OPTIONS it seems
  579. # [21:01] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  580. # [21:01] <hallvors> hope darobin gets that fixed shortly
  581. # [21:02] <hallvors> makes it a bit harder to ask Anne for a review of those new tests :(
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  583. # [21:04] <annevk> hallvors: that is banned
  584. # [21:05] <annevk> hallvors: it says the preflight is done without credentials
  585. # [21:05] <hallvors> 'k
  586. # [21:05] <hallvors> any plans for a CORS test suite? :)
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  607. # [22:20] <hallvors> if XHR uses the OPTIONS verb in a cross-origin request, I suppose the other end needs to say Access-Control-Allow-Methods: options ?
  608. # [22:20] <hallvors> bet we don't have tests for that :-p
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  624. # [22:40] <zcorpan> annevk5: i'll bring this idea up again: why not use <script import=url></script> instead of <link rel=import>?
  625. # [22:40] * annevk5 is now known as annevk
  626. # [22:41] <annevk> zcorpan: oh forgot about that
  627. # [22:41] <annevk> dunno
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  630. # [22:41] <annevk> hallvors: yeah, OPTIONS is not a special case
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  634. # [22:46] <annevk> zcorpan: you should prolly elaborate a bit on the proposal for people to grasp it's not <script src>
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  640. # [22:57] <zcorpan> annevk: what should i say?
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  652. # [23:08] <zcorpan> sent an email
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  660. # [23:17] <annevk> connection here is flaky
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  671. # [23:26] * Quits: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  672. # [23:28] * Quits: nimbu1 (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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  675. # [23:37] <smaug____> odinho: how do I run https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/tree/master/eventsource ?
  676. # [23:42] <zcorpan> smaug____: http://w3c-test.org/web-platform-tests/master/eventsource/
  677. # [23:43] <zcorpan> smaug____: or do you mean on your own server?
  678. # [23:49] <smaug____> zcorpan: ah, thanks, that is enough
  679. # [23:53] * Quits: rubatdub (~khalil@213.188.180.185) (Quit: Quitte)
  680. # [23:56] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@17.245.105.140) (Quit: rniwa)
  681. # [23:59] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@lkpg.se.opera.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  682. # Session Close: Wed May 15 00:00:00 2013

The end :)