/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-05-30 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Thu May 30 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <JonathanNeal> Do sections without headings inherit the headings of their parent, or are they considered Untitled, like http://gsnedders.html5.org/outliner/process.py?url=http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/elements.html#the-title-attribute
  4. # [00:00] <TabAtkins> untitled
  5. # [00:00] * Joins: nimbu (~Adium@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  6. # [00:02] <JonathanNeal> The OCD I went through with <nav>...
  7. # [00:02] <JonathanNeal> I was hoping it might inherit.
  8. # [00:02] <TabAtkins> It seems like that would usually be a bad idea.
  9. # [00:02] <Hixie> that would make little sense :-)
  10. # [00:03] <TabAtkins> I mean, literally putting the same <hn> element into the subsections would almost certainly be wrong.
  11. # [00:04] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  12. # [00:04] * Quits: jreading (~Adium@50-201-41-253-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  13. # [00:04] <JonathanNeal> For a <nav> element, this has been frustrating.
  14. # [00:05] * Quits: nimbu (~Adium@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  15. # [00:06] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.114.106.157) (Quit: othermaciej)
  16. # [00:06] * Joins: Andreo__ (~Andreo@177.18.126.55)
  17. # [00:06] <JonathanNeal> I often see <header><h1/><h2/><nav/><p/></header> working similarly as an <hgroup>, except that it doesn't according to spec.
  18. # [00:08] * Quits: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it) (Quit: Leaving)
  19. # [00:09] <JonathanNeal> Where many <hn> elements are merged similar to <hgroup>, and I can expect anything in <header> to be header material for the article.
  20. # [00:09] <Hixie> well if the <h1> is a site header and the <h2> a page header, that's fine
  21. # [00:09] <Hixie> it's only a problem if there's a later <h2> that's supposed to be a subheading of the <h1>/<h2> combo
  22. # [00:09] <Hixie> as opposed to just the <h1>, at the same level as the earlier <h2>
  23. # [00:10] <JonathanNeal> <header><h2>Flower of the Day</h2><h1>Roses</h1></header><h2>Their Beautiy</h2><p/><h2>Their Color</h2><p/><h2>Their Grace</h2><p/>
  24. # [00:10] * Quits: Andreo_ (~Andreo@177.18.126.55) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  25. # [00:10] <Hixie> that's clearly bogus, yes
  26. # [00:11] <Hixie> since it is the same as <section><h1>Flower of the Day</h1></section> <section><h1>Roses</h1> <section><h1>Their Beauty</h1></section> <section.../> <section.../> </section>
  27. # [00:14] * Quits: tobie (~tobielang@73-118.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  28. # [00:14] * Joins: tobie (~tobielang@73-118.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch)
  29. # [00:14] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@199.71.174.103) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  30. # [00:19] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.114.106.157)
  31. # [00:21] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~JonathanN@38.122.109.194) (Quit: JonathanNeal)
  32. # [00:22] * Joins: boogyman (~dividingl@pdpc/supporter/professional/boogyman)
  33. # [00:24] * Joins: JonathanNeal (~JonathanN@38.122.109.194)
  34. # [00:24] <JonathanNeal> Can you see what it is trying to be?
  35. # [00:26] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  36. # [00:29] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  37. # [00:31] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  38. # [00:32] <JonathanNeal> Well, that's not the kind of question or discussion you like to have, I know.
  39. # [00:33] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  40. # [00:33] <Hixie> it's presumably trying to be
  41. # [00:34] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  42. # [00:34] * Joins: nimbu1 (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  43. # [00:34] <TabAtkins> If you replaced <header> with <hgroup>, that would be a correct implementation of what they're trying to do.
  44. # [00:34] <Hixie> <hgroup><h1>Flower of the Day</h1><h2>Roses</h2></hgroup> <section><h1>Their Beauty</h1></section> <section.../> <section.../>
  45. # [00:34] <Hixie> or
  46. # [00:34] <Hixie> <hgroup><h2>Flower of the Day</h2><h1>Roses</h1></hgroup> <section><h1>Their Beauty</h1></section> <section.../> <section.../>
  47. # [00:34] <JonathanNeal> I suspect <hgroup> is better than <h1>Lord of the Rings <strong>The Two Towers<strong> <small>A Book Review</small></h1>
  48. # [00:38] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.110.112) (Quit: weinig)
  49. # [00:39] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@stargate.it.nicta.com.au)
  50. # [00:45] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  51. # [00:54] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@70.102.199.158) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  52. # [00:55] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@70.102.199.158)
  53. # [00:58] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.114.106.157) (Quit: othermaciej)
  54. # [00:58] * Quits: Jarrod_ (~Jarrod_@pdpc/supporter/active/jarrod) (Remote host closed the connection)
  55. # [00:59] * Joins: reyre_ (~reyre_@CPE7cb21b1e2cf4-CM7cb21b1e2cf1.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  56. # [00:59] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  57. # [01:01] * Joins: nimbu (~Adium@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  58. # [01:01] * Quits: reyre_ (~reyre_@CPE7cb21b1e2cf4-CM7cb21b1e2cf1.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  59. # [01:01] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.114.106.157)
  60. # [01:01] * Quits: decotii (~decotii@static-98-116-12-109.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Leaving)
  61. # [01:02] * Joins: reyre- (~reyre_@CPE7cb21b1e2cf4-CM7cb21b1e2cf1.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  62. # [01:03] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~JonathanN@38.122.109.194) (Quit: JonathanNeal)
  63. # [01:04] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  64. # [01:05] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@50-201-41-253-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  65. # [01:05] * Quits: nimbu (~Adium@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  66. # [01:10] * GPHemsley cries over tag soup
  67. # [01:12] * Quits: ^esc (~esc_ape@178.115.248.203.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  68. # [01:15] * Joins: ^esc (~esc_ape@178.115.251.127.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
  69. # [01:16] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@50-201-41-253-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: miketaylr)
  70. # [01:20] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@sjfw1-a.adobe.com) (Quit: lmclister)
  71. # [01:23] * Joins: chriseppstein (~ceppstei@99-6-85-4.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  72. # [01:27] * Quits: tobie (~tobielang@73-118.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch) (Quit: tobie)
  73. # [01:38] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@70.102.199.158) (Remote host closed the connection)
  74. # [01:39] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.114.106.157) (Quit: othermaciej)
  75. # [01:40] * Quits: nimbu1 (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  76. # [01:42] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98) (Remote host closed the connection)
  77. # [01:44] * Quits: garciawebdev (~garciaweb@190.244.74.107) (Remote host closed the connection)
  78. # [01:44] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@199.241.200.210)
  79. # [01:47] * Quits: sgalineau (~sylvaing@c-98-247-242-151.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  80. # [01:48] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs164155.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  81. # [01:48] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  82. # [01:49] * Quits: krit (~krit@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  83. # [01:54] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  84. # [01:54] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@203.69.99.17)
  85. # [01:56] * Quits: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@2001:980:9368:1:80db:b928:138b:6b63) (Remote host closed the connection)
  86. # [01:56] * Quits: jryans (~jryans@office.massrel.com) (Quit: Be back later)
  87. # [01:58] <tantek> I found a site that uses longdesc - web comic CSSquirrel, e.g. http://cssquirrel.com/comic/?comic=107
  88. # [01:58] <tantek> longdesc="http://www.cssquirrel.com/comicscripts/script102.htm"
  89. # [01:58] <tantek> which … 404s
  90. # [01:59] <tantek> sigh
  91. # [01:59] <TabAtkins> Yeah, he uses it solely to disprove the "nobody uses longdesc correctly" argument.
  92. # [01:59] <tantek> TabAtkins - uh, you mean to *prove* ?
  93. # [01:59] <tantek> also goes to show no one is viewing it - because no one has reported it - because he hasn't fixed it.
  94. # [01:59] <TabAtkins> Hahaha, nice.
  95. # [01:59] <tantek> although I guess I just viewed it - by viewing the source
  96. # [01:59] <tantek> doing some analysis on comic markup
  97. # [01:59] <tantek> you know, for #indiewebcamp
  98. # [02:00] <tantek> just in case I wanted to publish a comic on my own site
  99. # [02:04] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@199.241.200.210) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  100. # [02:06] <hober> tantek: see also http://www.soxaholix.com/
  101. # [02:07] <tantek> hober do you like their markup?
  102. # [02:10] <hober> no
  103. # [02:10] <tantek> yeah
  104. # [02:10] <tantek> btw - just found this - http://xkcdexplainedexplainedexplained.tumblr.com/
  105. # [02:11] <tantek> so here's a good example
  106. # [02:11] <tantek> http://xkcd.com/386/
  107. # [02:12] <tantek> since the people speaking don't have explicit identities, I'm wondering what the right way to markup their dialog is
  108. # [02:13] <Hixie> <p>"Are you coming to bed?"</p> <p>"I can't. This is important."</p> <p>"What?"</p> <p>"Someone is <em>wrong</em> on the Internet."</p>
  109. # [02:13] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174)
  110. # [02:13] <Hixie> ok, time to be afk again. bbl.
  111. # [02:14] * tantek looks for his CMOS
  112. # [02:14] * Quits: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:f581:e4bf:6290:63f6) (Quit: ap)
  113. # [02:14] * Quits: reyre- (~reyre_@CPE7cb21b1e2cf4-CM7cb21b1e2cf1.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  114. # [02:15] <tantek> anyway I'm thinking <object> tag with all the fallback inside
  115. # [02:17] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174) (Remote host closed the connection)
  116. # [02:17] <tantek> ah, pronouns. right.
  117. # [02:17] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  118. # [02:19] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@192.150.22.55) (Quit: Leaving.)
  119. # [02:19] * Quits: Badreddin (~Nur@189.192.138.187) (Quit: i'm off)
  120. # [02:20] * [[zzz]] is now known as [[zz]]
  121. # [02:20] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net) (Quit: sicking)
  122. # [02:21] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  123. # [02:21] * Joins: krit (~krit@70.sub-70-197-9.myvzw.com)
  124. # [02:22] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  125. # [02:22] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  126. # [02:25] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  127. # [02:25] * Quits: saba (~foo@unaffiliated/saba) (Write error: Broken pipe)
  128. # [02:29] * Quits: krit (~krit@70.sub-70-197-9.myvzw.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  129. # [02:29] * Joins: mven (~mven@ip68-224-15-53.lv.lv.cox.net)
  130. # [02:31] <GPHemsley> Oh, nice. My MIME type testing just crashed Aurora
  131. # [02:32] <GPHemsley> that is *definitely* a spec violation
  132. # [02:33] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@stargate.it.nicta.com.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  133. # [02:34] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@203.69.99.17) (Quit: Leaving.)
  134. # [02:35] * Joins: [[zzz]] (~q@node-o8d.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net)
  135. # [02:35] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@203.69.99.17)
  136. # [02:36] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174)
  137. # [02:37] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@203.69.99.17) (Client Quit)
  138. # [02:39] * Quits: [[zz]] (~q@node-j7k.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  139. # [02:39] * Joins: krit (~krit@35.sub-174-253-244.myvzw.com)
  140. # [02:45] * Joins: sgalineau (~sylvaing@c-98-247-242-151.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  141. # [02:49] * Quits: krit (~krit@35.sub-174-253-244.myvzw.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  142. # [02:52] * Quits: josemanuel (~josemanue@54.41.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) (Quit: Saliendo)
  143. # [02:55] <GPHemsley> well, at least it's reproduceable
  144. # [02:58] * Joins: krit (~krit@36.sub-70-211-67.myvzw.com)
  145. # [03:01] * Quits: sgalineau (~sylvaing@c-98-247-242-151.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  146. # [03:02] * Joins: nimbu1 (~Adium@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  147. # [03:04] * Quits: krit (~krit@36.sub-70-211-67.myvzw.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  148. # [03:07] * Quits: nimbu1 (~Adium@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  149. # [03:09] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@69-165-138-36.dsl.teksavvy.com)
  150. # [03:15] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@2600:1010:b024:493:225:ff:fe4e:996d)
  151. # [03:18] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-197-111.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  152. # [03:18] * Joins: rniwa_ (~rniwa@17.245.105.140)
  153. # [03:19] * Quits: rniwa_ (~rniwa@17.245.105.140) (Client Quit)
  154. # [03:30] * Quits: chriseppstein (~ceppstei@99-6-85-4.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: chriseppstein)
  155. # [03:30] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  156. # [03:37] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@203.69.99.16)
  157. # [03:42] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no)
  158. # [03:45] * ojan_away is now known as ojan
  159. # [03:47] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  160. # [03:51] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net)
  161. # [03:52] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  162. # [03:52] * Joins: krit (~krit@c-24-4-184-107.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  163. # [03:54] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  164. # [03:54] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@203.69.99.16) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  165. # [03:55] * Joins: crankhar1er (~crankhard@ip68-98-153-131.dc.dc.cox.net)
  166. # [03:55] * Parts: crankhar1er (~crankhard@ip68-98-153-131.dc.dc.cox.net)
  167. # [03:56] * Joins: cabanier1 (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  168. # [03:56] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  169. # [03:56] * Joins: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229)
  170. # [04:01] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  171. # [04:01] * Quits: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  172. # [04:02] * Quits: cabanier1 (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  173. # [04:02] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  174. # [04:02] * Joins: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  175. # [04:02] * Quits: scor (~scor@c-98-216-39-127.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Changing host)
  176. # [04:02] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  177. # [04:03] * Joins: nimbu (~Adium@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  178. # [04:05] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
  179. # [04:07] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  180. # [04:07] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
  181. # [04:07] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  182. # [04:08] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  183. # [04:08] * Quits: nimbu (~Adium@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  184. # [04:09] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@2600:1010:b024:493:225:ff:fe4e:996d) (Remote host closed the connection)
  185. # [04:09] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
  186. # [04:09] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  187. # [04:14] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@50-201-41-253-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  188. # [04:21] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: bholley)
  189. # [04:23] * Quits: kborchers (~kborchers@unaffiliated/kborchers) (Excess Flood)
  190. # [04:26] * Joins: kborchers (~kborchers@unaffiliated/kborchers)
  191. # [04:28] * Joins: sgalineau (~sylvaing@c-98-247-242-151.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  192. # [04:30] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@50-201-41-253-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: goodbye cruel world)
  193. # [04:34] * Joins: IroquoisTwist (~IroquoisT@69.170.160.74)
  194. # [04:34] * Quits: sgalineau (~sylvaing@c-98-247-242-151.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
  195. # [04:36] * Quits: IroquoisTwist (~IroquoisT@69.170.160.74) (Remote host closed the connection)
  196. # [04:37] * Joins: dydz (~dydz@76-220-18-65.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  197. # [04:41] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@c-98-210-38-110.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  198. # [04:42] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net)
  199. # [04:43] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net)
  200. # [04:43] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net) (Client Quit)
  201. # [04:44] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  202. # [04:45] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  203. # [04:48] * ojan is now known as ojan_away
  204. # [05:04] * Joins: nimbu (~Adium@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  205. # [05:05] * Quits: krit (~krit@c-24-4-184-107.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  206. # [05:06] * boogyman is now known as boogyman2
  207. # [05:06] * boogyman2 is now known as boogyman
  208. # [05:08] * Quits: nimbu (~Adium@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  209. # [05:10] * Joins: chriseppstein (~ceppstei@99-6-85-4.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  210. # [05:15] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  211. # [05:17] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net)
  212. # [05:24] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@69-165-138-36.dsl.teksavvy.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  213. # [05:25] * Joins: krit (~krit@c-24-4-184-107.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  214. # [05:31] * Quits: ^esc (~esc_ape@178.115.251.127.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  215. # [05:31] * Joins: ^esc_ (~esc_ape@178.115.251.127.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
  216. # [05:36] * Joins: richt (~richt@125.131.77.132)
  217. # [05:36] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net) (Quit: sicking)
  218. # [05:37] * Joins: richt_ (~richt@91.216.105.21)
  219. # [05:38] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@m822636d0.tmodns.net)
  220. # [05:38] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  221. # [05:39] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@m822636d0.tmodns.net) (Client Quit)
  222. # [05:40] * Quits: richt (~richt@125.131.77.132) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  223. # [05:51] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net)
  224. # [05:54] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@stargate.it.nicta.com.au)
  225. # [05:59] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@stargate.it.nicta.com.au) (Client Quit)
  226. # [06:02] * Joins: a-ja (~Instantbi@70.230.152.154)
  227. # [06:02] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@dps-pool9.nat.nicta.com.au)
  228. # [06:02] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  229. # [06:04] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-197-111.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  230. # [06:07] <tantek> Hixie - CMOS agrees with you!
  231. # [06:07] <a-ja> heycam: ping
  232. # [06:07] <heycam> a-ja, pong
  233. # [06:08] <a-ja> heycam: <details> and <summary> have a chance at making esr24 release? or other priorities higher?
  234. # [06:08] <tantek> 15th edition, 11.43 Speech, Dialogue, And Conversation / Direct discourse
  235. # [06:08] <tantek> "change in speaker is usually indicated by a new paragraph"
  236. # [06:09] <heycam> a-ja, unfortunately other things have been having priority recently. next chance to look at it is probably from june 24.
  237. # [06:10] <a-ja> heycam: k....likely not then, i guess. oh well
  238. # [06:11] <heycam> a-ja, yep. sorry about that!
  239. # [06:11] <a-ja> heycam: n/p....just like to know for planning purposes.
  240. # [06:13] <Hixie> tantek: well duh :-P
  241. # [06:18] * Quits: eric_carlson (~eric@17.212.152.104) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  242. # [06:19] * Quits: gavinc (~gavin@barad-dur.carothers.name) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
  243. # [06:22] * Joins: eric_carlson (~eric@17.212.152.104)
  244. # [06:23] * Joins: nimbu (~Adium@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  245. # [06:23] <tantek> Hixie - I like to do my homework :)
  246. # [06:27] <Hixie> :-)
  247. # [06:28] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@24.130.60.35)
  248. # [06:30] * Quits: ripples (~ripples@196-215-185-150.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) (Quit: soon)
  249. # [06:30] * Quits: yoichio (yoichio@nat/google/x-qqxrdylcxvuruelm) (Quit: Leaving...)
  250. # [06:35] * toyoshiAw is now known as toyoshim
  251. # [06:43] * [[zzz]] is now known as [[zz]]
  252. # [06:52] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@17.212.154.114) (Quit: rniwa)
  253. # [06:56] * Quits: chriseppstein (~ceppstei@99-6-85-4.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: chriseppstein)
  254. # [07:04] * Quits: yutak (~yutak@2401:fa00:4:1004:baac:6fff:fe99:adfb) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  255. # [07:16] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@24.130.60.35) (Quit: weinig)
  256. # [07:23] * Quits: boogyman (~dividingl@pdpc/supporter/professional/boogyman) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  257. # [07:27] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@2.25.62.54)
  258. # [07:32] <TabAtkins> heycam: While we're on the subject of you having other things to look at, seen my email from earlier today about adding a way to declare an interface map-like?
  259. # [07:33] <heycam> TabAtkins, no, I haven't seen that yet
  260. # [07:33] <heycam> TabAtkins, what was the outcome of the thread on es-discuss?
  261. # [07:33] <TabAtkins> They don't want to add anything to ES for it, but Tom gave a quite decent suggestion of how to achieve what we want with only a little bit of help from WebIDL.
  262. # [07:33] <heycam> TabAtkins, oh, great
  263. # [07:34] <TabAtkins> His idea could be adopted by ES as well without the troubles that my other suggestions had, but I'd prefer not to wait for it.
  264. # [07:34] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  265. # [07:34] <heycam> TabAtkins, do you have a link so I can take a quick peek now?
  266. # [07:34] <TabAtkins> My thread?
  267. # [07:35] <heycam> TabAtkins, no the "my email from earlier today"
  268. # [07:35] * Joins: Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  269. # [07:35] <TabAtkins> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2013AprJun/0805.html
  270. # [07:37] <heycam> TabAtkins, so they key I guess is not to use Map.prototype's actual methods, but just to have a new set of identically named ones that do the custom behaviour?
  271. # [07:37] * Joins: richt (~richt@125.131.77.132)
  272. # [07:37] <heycam> *the
  273. # [07:38] <TabAtkins> Yes, basically. And have the set of them maintained in WebIDL rather than individual specs, so one update will fix every spec.
  274. # [07:39] <TabAtkins> Kinda sad that that means Map.prototype.set.call() won't be hooked and work correctly (it'll just throw instead, I think, as the object doesn't have a [[MapData]] internal property), but whatever, that's the only real downside left.
  275. # [07:40] <heycam> TabAtkins, mmm. if you cannot do arbitrary map insertions/removals without side effects, then it's kind of not a Map as defined by ES anyway
  276. # [07:40] * Quits: richt_ (~richt@91.216.105.21) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  277. # [07:41] <TabAtkins> omg, not this again. Yes, it's a Map in every way. ES happened to define that the thing named by Map is specifically an object->object map, but that shouldn't prevent other types of maps from existing or interoperating. Maps are naturally parametric.
  278. # [07:41] <heycam> ("it depends what you mean by Map")
  279. # [07:41] <TabAtkins> That's why I lower-cased when allowed by English conventions. ^_^
  280. # [07:41] * Quits: richt (~richt@125.131.77.132) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  281. # [07:42] <heycam> ok :)
  282. # [07:42] <TabAtkins> A map is a list of key/value tuples. A Map is the ES class, which is defined as object->object.
  283. # [07:42] <heycam> ok, sure.
  284. # [07:42] <TabAtkins> A CSSVariablesDeclaration is a map which is string->string, and which is backed by a CSSStyleRule object.
  285. # [07:43] <heycam> anyway, I'll take a stab at it a bit after I get back from F2F stuff next week
  286. # [07:43] <TabAtkins> Cool. See you in Tokyo!
  287. # [07:44] <heycam> see you then
  288. # [07:44] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@2.25.62.54) (Remote host closed the connection)
  289. # [07:46] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  290. # [07:51] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@dps-pool9.nat.nicta.com.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  291. # [07:58] * Quits: krit (~krit@c-24-4-184-107.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  292. # [08:01] * Joins: richt (~richt@222.233.254.208)
  293. # [08:03] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  294. # [08:07] * Quits: dydz (~dydz@76-220-18-65.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: dydz)
  295. # [08:07] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@c-98-210-38-110.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: lmclister)
  296. # [08:09] * Parts: a-ja (~Instantbi@70.230.152.154)
  297. # [08:14] * Quits: Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
  298. # [08:16] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  299. # [08:25] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@stargate.it.nicta.com.au)
  300. # [08:38] * Joins: Somatt_wrk_ (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com)
  301. # [08:39] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.180.169.135)
  302. # [08:39] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  303. # [08:39] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@host-78-146-50-46.as13285.net)
  304. # [08:42] * Quits: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  305. # [08:48] * Quits: gavin (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Remote host closed the connection)
  306. # [08:48] * Joins: gavin (~gavin@people1.scl3.mozilla.com)
  307. # [08:48] * Quits: gavin (~gavin@people1.scl3.mozilla.com) (Changing host)
  308. # [08:48] * Joins: gavin (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  309. # [08:50] <tantek> Hixie - long form alt text (including aforementioned dialog) for an image posted as normal inline markup inside an object: http://tantek.com/2013/149/b1/bayesian
  310. # [08:51] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no)
  311. # [08:56] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  312. # [08:57] * Joins: tobie (~tobielang@73-118.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch)
  313. # [08:57] * Quits: gavin (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Remote host closed the connection)
  314. # [08:59] * Quits: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@114-24-51-119.dynamic.hinet.net) (Quit: HTTP/1.1 404 JohnAlbin Not Found)
  315. # [08:59] * Joins: gavin (~gavin@people1.scl3.mozilla.com)
  316. # [08:59] * Quits: gavin (~gavin@people1.scl3.mozilla.com) (Changing host)
  317. # [08:59] * Joins: gavin (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin)
  318. # [09:05] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  319. # [09:06] <jgraham> tantek: I'm rather sure the W3C access change at Opera was intentional. I remember mail from Charles.
  320. # [09:06] <wilhelm> tantek: I did a similar experiment here: http://wja.no/t/comic/ . (Stolen graphics with no attribution; previously not linked from anywhere.)
  321. # [09:06] <tantek> jgraham. huh - interesting. wonder when that happened.
  322. # [09:07] <tantek> wilhelm - interesting experiment! yes it looks like you used XKCD as a source.
  323. # [09:08] <wilhelm> If you have 12 panels, the comic will work on any screen resolution.
  324. # [09:08] <wilhelm> Four columns, tree, two, one.
  325. # [09:08] * Joins: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it)
  326. # [09:08] <tantek> my workflow happened in a different order, I was inspired to draw the comic first, and then was encouraged to post it, and then had to of course figure out the markup to do so.
  327. # [09:08] <tantek> interestingly enough, at least some aggregators use the fall back markup instead of the <object>! e.g. http://planet.mozilla.org/
  328. # [09:10] <wilhelm> Yeah, my experiment started with "how can you make a digital graphic novel work on any screen size". I also found a way to use panels of different sizes.
  329. # [09:10] <wilhelm> Would be fun to try with some real content.
  330. # [09:16] <Ms2ger> http://quotes.burntelectrons.org/6945
  331. # [09:17] <tantek> Ms2ger - almost a haiki
  332. # [09:17] <tantek> haiku even
  333. # [09:19] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net)
  334. # [09:19] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net) (Client Quit)
  335. # [09:19] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net)
  336. # [09:19] * Joins: mitemitreski (~mitemitre@212.120.17.179)
  337. # [09:28] <Ms2ger> http://i.imgur.com/CwjA7Z1.jpg
  338. # [09:34] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  339. # [09:38] <zcorpan> i wonder what's wrong with <h1>heading<br>subheading</h1>
  340. # [09:40] <Ms2ger> Styling
  341. # [09:41] <zcorpan> <h1><span>heading</span><br><span>subheading</span></h1>
  342. # [09:51] <nessy> I think it's about automatically creating a table-of-contents thing
  343. # [09:51] <nessy> you don't really want the subheading in it
  344. # [09:51] <nessy> just my 2c worth though ;-)
  345. # [09:57] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
  346. # [10:01] * Quits: JibberJim (~opera@host-78-146-50-46.as13285.net) (Quit: JibberJim)
  347. # [10:02] * Joins: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229)
  348. # [10:02] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@stargate.it.nicta.com.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  349. # [10:02] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs164155.pp.htv.fi)
  350. # [10:03] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  351. # [10:05] * Quits: remysharp (uid4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wajumxejajdafyay) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  352. # [10:06] * Joins: vcarbune (~vcarbune@84-74-140-149.dclient.hispeed.ch)
  353. # [10:10] * Quits: tobie (~tobielang@73-118.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  354. # [10:11] * Joins: tobie (~tobielang@73-118.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch)
  355. # [10:11] * Quits: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  356. # [10:13] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@207.218.72.65)
  357. # [10:15] * Joins: benbarnett (~Adium@195.81.245.98)
  358. # [10:15] * Joins: nonge (~nonge@p5082AD32.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  359. # [10:15] <SteveF> zcorpan: thats one of the options suggested in the spec (except for the <br>) display:block is used instead, but use of <br> should also be shown http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/common-idioms.html#sub-head
  360. # [10:17] <zcorpan> SteveF: the <br> seems relevant if it's supposed to be understandable without css
  361. # [10:17] <zcorpan> running together two sentences can change the meaning
  362. # [10:19] * Quits: nonge_ (~nonge@p5082B42C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  363. # [10:20] <SteveF> zcorpan: bug filed https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22204 yeah agree either that or delineation such as : or - much discussion here http://html5doctor.com/howto-subheadings/
  364. # [10:21] <zcorpan> SteveF: in the "Ramones -" example, how is the dash hidden?
  365. # [10:23] <SteveF> CSS display:none guess i need anther bug filed...
  366. # [10:25] <SteveF> so it could be <i>-</i> i {display:none}
  367. # [10:26] * Quits: nunnun (~hiro@2001:200:1c0:3624:20c:29ff:fe02:11c8) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  368. # [10:27] <zcorpan> isn't that abuse of <i>?
  369. # [10:27] * Joins: nunnun (~hiro@2001:200:1c0:3624:20c:29ff:fe02:11c8)
  370. # [10:28] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net) (Quit: jdaggett)
  371. # [10:30] <SteveF> don't think so "The i element represents a span of text in an alternate voice or mood" it would make sense to differentiate the - as something other than the rest of the text and what does abuse of <i> actually mean who does the abuse effect?
  372. # [10:32] <SteveF> zcorpan: you can comment on bug if you think its an issue https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22205
  373. # [10:33] * Joins: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it)
  374. # [10:33] <annevk> zcorpan: fyi, @namespace has similar issues as @charset
  375. # [10:34] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  376. # [10:36] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  377. # [10:40] * Quits: OnlyMax2 (~OnlyMax@187-126-215-224.user.veloxzone.com.br) (Quit: Leaving)
  378. # [10:46] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-50-136-134-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  379. # [10:47] <zcorpan> annevk: what issues?
  380. # [10:47] * Quits: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  381. # [10:48] * zcorpan wonders why the attributes are readonly
  382. # [10:48] <annevk> zcorpan: you can't do modifications to namespace declarations or insert new ones as that breaks parsed selectors
  383. # [10:49] <annevk> zcorpan: what you actually want to do is expose a readonly namespace map
  384. # [10:49] <annevk> zcorpan: there's some emails about that
  385. # [10:49] <annevk> zcorpan: there's also some emails about that prolly not being possible due to legacy
  386. # [10:50] <zcorpan> ok, haven't read those
  387. # [10:52] * Quits: nunnun (~hiro@2001:200:1c0:3624:20c:29ff:fe02:11c8) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  388. # [10:53] <zcorpan> should all readonly attribute CSSStyleDeclaration style; have [PutForwards=cssText] ?
  389. # [10:53] <SimonSapin> One of the reasons I dropped cssutils and wrote tinycss: when I ask cssutils for the selector of a style rule, it serializes it from its internal representation which uses namespace URLs rather than prefixes. To do that, it loops over every rule of the stylesheet to rebuild the prefix map, just in case you’ve messed with @namespace rules.
  390. # [10:53] <SimonSapin> Net result: O(n²) time for getting all selectors from a stylesheet with n style rules.
  391. # [10:54] <annevk> zcorpan: depends on your school of thought it seems
  392. # [10:54] <annevk> zcorpan: I think it's useful
  393. # [10:57] * Joins: nunnun (~hiro@2001:200:1c0:3624:20c:29ff:fe02:11c8)
  394. # [10:57] <heycam> annevk, I wonder if while you're with alex, wycats, etc. you could discuss named getters/setters
  395. # [10:57] <heycam> annevk, seems some people don't really like them (sicking, at least), while others do
  396. # [10:58] <annevk> heycam: nobody wants them
  397. # [10:58] <heycam> annevk, I thought Hixie did
  398. # [10:58] <annevk> heycam: okay, almost nobody
  399. # [10:58] <heycam> :)
  400. # [10:58] <heycam> ok, I'll factor that in
  401. # [10:58] <annevk> heycam: that's why Map and such exists
  402. # [10:59] <heycam> right
  403. # [10:59] <heycam> that's what made me think of it again
  404. # [10:59] <annevk> heycam: btw, you should talk with wycats__ about JSIDL <> Web IDL
  405. # [10:59] <wycats__> heycam
  406. # [10:59] <wycats__> hey
  407. # [10:59] <annevk> heycam: he thinks morphing Web IDL might be more effort
  408. # [10:59] <heycam> hi wycats__
  409. # [10:59] <annevk> ah
  410. # [10:59] <annevk> there he is :)
  411. # [11:04] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  412. # [11:12] * Quits: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  413. # [11:19] <SteveF> GPHemsley: JonathanNeal notes, ideas on stuff after discussion last night http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2013May/0173.html
  414. # [11:19] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  415. # [11:22] * Joins: baku (~baku@ppp-206-67.24-151.libero.it)
  416. # [11:23] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  417. # [11:26] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@202-159-144-69.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  418. # [11:36] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  419. # [11:40] * Kolombiken1 is now known as Kolombiken
  420. # [11:40] * Joins: OnlyMax (~OnlyMax@187-126-215-224.user.veloxzone.com.br)
  421. # [11:43] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs164155.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  422. # [11:49] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@132.185.151.37)
  423. # [11:50] <zcorpan> annevk: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Oct/0181.html ?
  424. # [11:50] <annevk> zcorpan: looks accurate
  425. # [11:51] <annevk> zcorpan: man that was long ago
  426. # [11:51] <zcorpan> yeah
  427. # [11:51] <zcorpan> i haven't found anything about "prolly not being possible due to legacy"
  428. # [11:53] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  429. # [12:00] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  430. # [12:03] * Joins: remysharp (uid4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jxpczyahlcfhamyr)
  431. # [12:05] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  432. # [12:09] <zcorpan> insertRule('@namespace "foo"', 0) throws in webkit/blink
  433. # [12:10] <zcorpan> and presto
  434. # [12:14] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  435. # [12:14] <zcorpan> though gecko and ie10 allow it, but don't invalidate the style sheet if it's being added after other things
  436. # [12:19] * Joins: ambv (~ambv@aded28.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  437. # [12:22] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  438. # [12:25] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
  439. # [12:26] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  440. # [12:28] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  441. # [12:30] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Remote host closed the connection)
  442. # [12:30] * Joins: Martin1982 (~Martin198@cable-175-208.zeelandnet.nl)
  443. # [12:35] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  444. # [12:39] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  445. # [12:44] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  446. # [12:45] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  447. # [12:47] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  448. # [12:49] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  449. # [12:50] * Quits: baku (~baku@ppp-206-67.24-151.libero.it) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  450. # [12:54] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: rniwa)
  451. # [12:55] * Joins: hallvors (~hallvord@office.oslo.opera.com)
  452. # [12:55] * Quits: Jedi_ (~Jedi@jedi.org) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  453. # [12:56] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  454. # [12:57] * Joins: Jedi_ (~Jedi@jedi.org)
  455. # [12:57] * Quits: niloy (~niloy@115.112.64.6) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  456. # [12:57] * Joins: niloy_ (~niloy@115.112.64.6)
  457. # [12:58] * Joins: zdobersek (~zdobersek@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si)
  458. # [12:58] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
  459. # [13:02] * Quits: zdobersek (~zdobersek@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
  460. # [13:03] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  461. # [13:04] * Joins: zdobersek (~zdobersek@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si)
  462. # [13:06] <annevk> darobin: is the github.com/w3c stuff synced on w3.org somehow?
  463. # [13:06] <darobin> annevk: not yet, but the systeam is working on making that generic
  464. # [13:06] <annevk> darobin: k
  465. # [13:06] * Quits: webben (~benjamin@198.61.227.102) (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1-dev)
  466. # [13:06] * Quits: niloy_ (~niloy@115.112.64.6) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  467. # [13:06] <darobin> you don't have to decide now, you can use your organisation and move the repos later if it makes sense
  468. # [13:06] * Joins: webben (~benjamin@198.61.227.102)
  469. # [13:06] * Joins: niloy (~niloy@115.112.64.6)
  470. # [13:07] <annevk> darobin: so w3.org will get git hosting?
  471. # [13:07] <darobin> annevk: it's definitely being looked at, yes
  472. # [13:07] * Quits: JibberJim (~opera@132.185.151.37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  473. # [13:07] <darobin> at the very least it'll get sync from github
  474. # [13:07] <annevk> darobin: kinda makes sense for the W3C TAG to be its own organization
  475. # [13:07] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  476. # [13:08] <annevk> darobin: so if they could consider syncing both /w3c and /w3ctag ...
  477. # [13:08] <darobin> annevk: yeah, I don't have a strong opinion on that, I just wanted to point out that you can use the w3c org
  478. # [13:08] <darobin> I can easily set you up, and grant admin over repos and stuff
  479. # [13:08] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@132.185.151.37)
  480. # [13:09] <annevk> too much management and coordination I guess, hmm
  481. # [13:09] <annevk> but anyway, sounds good about git syncing
  482. # [13:10] <darobin> as you prefer, I really don't have a preference, just know that it's on the table
  483. # [13:11] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  484. # [13:12] * Quits: ambv (~ambv@aded28.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Quit: ambv)
  485. # [13:16] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  486. # [13:17] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  487. # [13:19] * Joins: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it)
  488. # [13:25] * Quits: agcolom (uid6233@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eqddbjqldgbwuxlg) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  489. # [13:31] * Joins: agcolom (uid6233@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thtqwrvvuwgjapoh)
  490. # [13:35] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  491. # [13:37] * Joins: vitorpacheco (~vitor@201-8-245-157.user.veloxzone.com.br)
  492. # [13:38] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  493. # [13:43] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  494. # [13:46] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  495. # [13:46] * Joins: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@36-224-105-55.dynamic-ip.hinet.net)
  496. # [13:50] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  497. # [13:52] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  498. # [13:53] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  499. # [13:53] * Joins: tj_vantoll (~Adium@69.167.130.9)
  500. # [13:57] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  501. # [14:00] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  502. # [14:04] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no)
  503. # [14:06] * Quits: viduthalai1947 (uid5404@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rkdqlfsyochtleop) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  504. # [14:08] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  505. # [14:11] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  506. # [14:13] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  507. # [14:17] <hallvors> annevk: what did you mean by "leaving new features to the API for Fetch"?
  508. # [14:17] <hallvors> is the Fetch spec going to define what properties an XHR instance has??
  509. # [14:23] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  510. # [14:24] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174) (Remote host closed the connection)
  511. # [14:25] * Ms2ger wonders if dap counts as web-platform
  512. # [14:26] * Joins: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.108.106.115)
  513. # [14:26] * jgraham concurs with Ms2ger's wondering
  514. # [14:29] * Quits: niloy (~niloy@115.112.64.6) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  515. # [14:29] * Joins: niloy_ (~niloy@115.112.64.6)
  516. # [14:31] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  517. # [14:31] <annevk> hallvors: Fetch is going to define something like Response = fetch(Request)
  518. # [14:31] <annevk> euh, prolly Future<Response>
  519. # [14:33] * Quits: niloy_ (~niloy@115.112.64.6) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  520. # [14:33] * hallvors can now prove that jgraham and Ms2ger are wonderful people, full of wondering
  521. # [14:33] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  522. # [14:33] * Joins: niloy (~niloy@115.112.64.6)
  523. # [14:34] <hallvors> annevk: and..? Fetch will then define properties on Request and XHR will just say "look at Fetch"?
  524. # [14:35] <annevk> hallvors: XHR will no longer be needed
  525. # [14:35] <annevk> Ms2ger: depends on the API?
  526. # [14:36] * Joins: richt_ (~richt@91.216.105.36)
  527. # [14:37] * Joins: scor (scor@nat/acquia/x-rmqbpkxcauwyqwiv)
  528. # [14:37] * Quits: scor (scor@nat/acquia/x-rmqbpkxcauwyqwiv) (Changing host)
  529. # [14:37] * Joins: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  530. # [14:37] <hallvors> Oh well. I thought Fetch was about the slightly lower-level networking and XHR would still exist but defer to Fetch a lot regarding details
  531. # [14:37] <annevk> yes that too
  532. # [14:37] <annevk> that's plan a)
  533. # [14:37] <annevk> or plan 1)
  534. # [14:37] <annevk> plan 2 is to add a better API
  535. # [14:38] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  536. # [14:38] <hallvors> Does that mean you're basically "abandoning" the XHR spec at this point because Fetch will obsolete it anyway?
  537. # [14:38] <annevk> not sure what you mean by abandone
  538. # [14:38] <annevk> seems pretty important to define it
  539. # [14:39] <hallvors> Sorry . I'm not sure how you are planning to put the bits together
  540. # [14:39] * Joins: decotii (~decotii@static-98-116-12-109.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
  541. # [14:40] * Quits: richt (~richt@222.233.254.208) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  542. # [14:40] <hallvors> if I suggest a new property for XHR instances and you say you'll "leave new features of the API for Fetch" it sounds like xhr.credentialsPolicy will be defined in the Fetch spec
  543. # [14:40] <annevk> right
  544. # [14:40] <hallvors> (even when it's proposed as an XHR property that's going to map well on to what's already in Fetch)
  545. # [14:41] <hallvors> so it sounds like you're not going to write anything in the XHR spec
  546. # [14:41] <annevk> I don't think we should extend XHR further if we're also going to do a new API soonish
  547. # [14:41] <annevk> doesn't mean we should no longer maintain XHR
  548. # [14:41] <hallvors> so that's why I'm asking if you're "abandoning" the spec
  549. # [14:42] <hallvors> in the expectation that it will be obsolete
  550. # [14:42] <annevk> what does obsolete mean?
  551. # [14:42] <hallvors> what does maintain mean? ,-)
  552. # [14:44] * Quits: Somatt_wrk_ (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com) (Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com ))
  553. # [14:45] <hallvors> So Fetch will create a new, competing, JS-exposed API for HTTP. var req=new Request(); response = fetch(req); response.then() .. ?
  554. # [14:45] * Joins: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com)
  555. # [14:45] <hallvors> (or whatever your preferred futures syntax is)
  556. # [14:45] <jgraham> Why would fetch have an API?
  557. # [14:46] * hallvors knows futures is considered cool but doesn't study the details of all those discussions yet
  558. # [14:46] <annevk> hallvors: yeah
  559. # [14:46] <jgraham> Shouldn't the API be a layer on top of fetch?
  560. # [14:46] * Joins: richt (~richt@222.233.254.208)
  561. # [14:46] <annevk> jgraham: sure
  562. # [14:46] <hallvors> jgraham: I'm just trying to understand what Anne is saying :-p
  563. # [14:46] <annevk> jgraham: "Fetch" is the model, fetch() is the API
  564. # [14:46] <annevk> (prolly, requires some further thinking)
  565. # [14:47] <hallvors> why?
  566. # [14:47] <hallvors> to use futures?
  567. # [14:47] <jgraham> annevk: Re:DAP, battery, vibration, ambient light and proximity so far
  568. # [14:47] <annevk> hallvors: yeah
  569. # [14:47] * Quits: niloy (~niloy@115.112.64.6) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  570. # [14:47] <annevk> jgraham: those seem like relevant things, although the APIs are suckish
  571. # [14:48] <annevk> hallvors: futures, and provide a way to expose a tainted response somehow
  572. # [14:48] <Ms2ger> Clearly TC39 should review them
  573. # [14:48] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  574. # [14:48] * Quits: richt_ (~richt@91.216.105.36) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  575. # [14:48] * Joins: richt__ (~richt@91.216.105.36)
  576. # [14:49] <annevk> Ms2ger, tears were shed
  577. # [14:49] <jgraham> Well they are things. Not obvious they are ever going to be web-exposed though
  578. # [14:49] <Ms2ger> "DAP: They Make Things"
  579. # [14:49] * Joins: pauld_ (~decotii@static-98-116-12-109.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
  580. # [14:50] <annevk> jgraham: I guess I should write some tests for B2G, but I thought most were
  581. # [14:50] <jgraham> You can cause the phone to vibrate from a web page?
  582. # [14:51] <Ms2ger> *app
  583. # [14:51] <hallvors> appsite ?
  584. # [14:51] <jgraham> Well I don't know what a web app is
  585. # [14:51] <jgraham> Everyone means something different whan they say that
  586. # [14:51] * Quits: richt (~richt@222.233.254.208) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  587. # [14:52] <annevk> jgraham: I was hoping you could
  588. # [14:53] <annevk> jgraham: https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI suggests it is
  589. # [14:54] <jgraham> Hmm, maybe then
  590. # [14:55] <jgraham> The spec doesn't say anything about permissions I guess
  591. # [14:55] <jgraham> Seems a bit obnoxious
  592. # [14:55] <jgraham> Although probably no more than the rest of the web
  593. # [14:56] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  594. # [15:01] * Quits: benbarnett (~Adium@195.81.245.98) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  595. # [15:01] * Joins: benbarnett (~Adium@195.81.245.98)
  596. # [15:01] <annevk> I have a test, but getting my phone on the network is hard :/
  597. # [15:02] <annevk> http://dump.testsuite.org/vibrate/test.html
  598. # [15:02] <annevk> "test"
  599. # [15:02] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  600. # [15:02] <Ms2ger> It didn't
  601. # [15:02] <annevk> Ms2ger: using?
  602. # [15:02] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  603. # [15:02] <Ms2ger> Maybe because I don't have a smartphone and I loaded the page on my laptop
  604. # [15:03] <annevk> Ms2ger: don't you have something useful to do? :p
  605. # [15:03] * Joins: barneybook (~kvirc@220-136-48-61.dynamic.hinet.net)
  606. # [15:03] <Ms2ger> http://xkcd.com/303/
  607. # [15:03] * Quits: vitorpacheco (~vitor@201-8-245-157.user.veloxzone.com.br) (Remote host closed the connection)
  608. # [15:04] <annevk> even reasonably matches the HTTP status code
  609. # [15:05] * Joins: richt (~richt@222.233.254.208)
  610. # [15:06] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  611. # [15:09] * Quits: richt__ (~richt@91.216.105.36) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  612. # [15:10] * Quits: richt (~richt@222.233.254.208) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  613. # [15:11] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  614. # [15:13] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174)
  615. # [15:14] <annevk> hallvors: my apologies btw for not communicating much about the Fetch plan, it's still evolving, also based on input from others
  616. # [15:17] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  617. # [15:18] <hallvors> annevk: apology accepted (although I'm wondering if you're reluctant to add stuff to XHR to make your new API a stronger contender in comparison :-p ;-))
  618. # [15:19] * Joins: TallTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  619. # [15:20] * Parts: decotii (~decotii@static-98-116-12-109.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) ("Leaving")
  620. # [15:22] <annevk> hallvors: I'm reluctant to add stuff to avoid needless web platform complexity
  621. # [15:22] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  622. # [15:23] <annevk> hallvors: I'm always reluctant to add stuff
  623. # [15:23] <hallvors> he said and added a new API ;-)
  624. # [15:24] <annevk> heh
  625. # [15:24] <hallvors> (I agree with the sentiment, BTW)
  626. # [15:24] <hallvors> (this whole anti-anonymous effort was of course an attempt at simplifying things)
  627. # [15:26] <hallvors> hm.. saying I'm involved in anti-anonymous efforts in a public chatroom seems uncautious. could be misunderstood ;-)
  628. # [15:28] <hallvors> anyway. I was pushing for a tri-state withCredentials because it seems simpler, Sicking had some good and valid concerns and while I think the mess would be temporary and the improvement permanent, I'm happy to defer to his experience and implementor skillz. Especially if you actually give me a tri-state property eventually :-)
  629. # [15:28] <annevk> most things in #whatwg are misunderstood, though only by people who want to
  630. # [15:29] <hallvors> heh
  631. # [15:29] <hallvors> anything can be misunderstood if you try hard enough
  632. # [15:29] * Joins: Masklinn_ (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  633. # [15:32] * Ms2ger launches an anonymous attack on hallvors
  634. # [15:33] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@24.212.206.174) (Remote host closed the connection)
  635. # [15:34] * Quits: Masklinn_ (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  636. # [15:34] * hallvors is a clueless cyber warrior
  637. # [15:35] * Joins: vitorpacheco (~vitor@201-8-245-157.user.veloxzone.com.br)
  638. # [15:35] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  639. # [15:36] * Joins: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com)
  640. # [15:38] * Joins: ambv (~ambv@aded28.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  641. # [15:42] * Quits: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.108.106.115) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  642. # [15:47] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  643. # [15:50] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  644. # [15:53] * Joins: rubatdub (~khalil@213.188.180.185)
  645. # [15:55] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  646. # [15:56] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  647. # [15:56] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@202-159-144-69.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  648. # [16:00] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  649. # [16:00] * Quits: Jedi_ (~Jedi@jedi.org) (Ping timeout: 285 seconds)
  650. # [16:01] * Joins: chriseppstein (ceppstei@dagmar.corp.linkedin.com)
  651. # [16:01] * Quits: JibberJim (~opera@132.185.151.37) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  652. # [16:01] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98)
  653. # [16:02] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  654. # [16:03] * Quits: chriseppstein (ceppstei@dagmar.corp.linkedin.com) (Client Quit)
  655. # [16:05] * Joins: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled)
  656. # [16:05] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  657. # [16:06] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-yacqlblyzcnjiyqq)
  658. # [16:06] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-yacqlblyzcnjiyqq) (Changing host)
  659. # [16:06] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
  660. # [16:07] * Joins: viduthalai1947 (uid5404@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-serfifdhjtssrjiy)
  661. # [16:08] * Joins: chriseppstein (ceppstei@dagmar.corp.linkedin.com)
  662. # [16:11] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  663. # [16:11] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  664. # [16:11] * Joins: Jedi_ (~Jedi@jedi.org)
  665. # [16:11] * Joins: krit (~krit@c-24-4-184-107.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  666. # [16:12] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  667. # [16:15] * Joins: gavinc (~gavin@barad-dur.carothers.name)
  668. # [16:20] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  669. # [16:22] * Quits: mven (~mven@ip68-224-15-53.lv.lv.cox.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  670. # [16:26] * Joins: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.108.106.115)
  671. # [16:28] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  672. # [16:29] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  673. # [16:34] <GPHemsley> SteveF: I'm kinda bummed you didn't include the alternative suggestions JonathanNeal and I proposed.
  674. # [16:35] * Joins: sgalineau (~sylvaing@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  675. # [16:35] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  676. # [16:36] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  677. # [16:41] <zcorpan> annevk: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22208
  678. # [16:42] * Quits: chriseppstein (ceppstei@dagmar.corp.linkedin.com) (Quit: chriseppstein)
  679. # [16:42] * Joins: chriseppstein (ceppstei@dagmar.corp.linkedin.com)
  680. # [16:44] * Joins: josemanuel (~josemanue@179.236.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
  681. # [16:44] <annevk> zcorpan: did you clarify that adding them doesn't change the actual namespace map of the style sheet or did you define something else?
  682. # [16:44] <annevk> zcorpan: I don't think there's a namespace map currently and you need to be clear on what happens there
  683. # [16:45] <annevk> zcorpan: e.g. can you change an existing test|test in meaning or not, can you invalidate it, etc.
  684. # [16:45] <zcorpan> annevk: my thinking was that it would change the namespace map, but i haven't really specified how the namespace map works
  685. # [16:45] * Joins: Badreddin (~Nur@189.192.138.187)
  686. # [16:45] <annevk> zcorpan: changing the namespace map would potentially require re-parsing selectors, which seems terrible
  687. # [16:45] <zcorpan> annevk: it throws if you try to change @namespace if there are any other rules
  688. # [16:45] <zcorpan> so nothing needs to be reparsed
  689. # [16:45] <annevk> zcorpan: but you can override a previous @namespace
  690. # [16:46] <annevk> zcorpan: ooh sorry
  691. # [16:46] <zcorpan> look at the diff :-)
  692. # [16:46] <annevk> zcorpan: meh
  693. # [16:46] <annevk> :)
  694. # [16:47] <GPHemsley> Hixie: I was kinda hoping you hear your opinion on the whole <hgroup>/<subline> discussion yesterday :)
  695. # [16:47] <GPHemsley> *to
  696. # [16:49] * Joins: Andreo (~Andreo@177.18.126.55)
  697. # [16:50] * Quits: jernoble_ (~jernoble@199-188-193-107.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  698. # [16:50] * Quits: Andreo__ (~Andreo@177.18.126.55) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  699. # [16:54] <GPHemsley> We never put together a style guide, did we?
  700. # [16:54] <GPHemsley> I ask because I wonder what our preferred term for dictionary/map/associative array is
  701. # [16:54] <GPHemsley> /object
  702. # [16:55] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  703. # [16:57] * Joins: cabanier1 (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  704. # [16:58] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  705. # [16:58] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.180.169.135) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  706. # [16:58] * Quits: espadrine (~ttyl@85-218-11-50.dclient.lsne.ch) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  707. # [17:01] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@132.185.151.37)
  708. # [17:02] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  709. # [17:03] * Quits: cabanier1 (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  710. # [17:03] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  711. # [17:04] * Quits: krit (~krit@c-24-4-184-107.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  712. # [17:05] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  713. # [17:06] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Remote host closed the connection)
  714. # [17:07] * Quits: josemanuel (~josemanue@179.236.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) (Quit: Saliendo)
  715. # [17:07] * Joins: krit (~krit@c-24-4-184-107.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  716. # [17:07] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Remote host closed the connection)
  717. # [17:09] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@76.74.153.41)
  718. # [17:11] * Quits: JibberJim (~opera@132.185.151.37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  719. # [17:13] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@132.185.151.37)
  720. # [17:15] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@sjfw1-a.adobe.com)
  721. # [17:18] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@203.69.99.16)
  722. # [17:18] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  723. # [17:18] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs164155.pp.htv.fi)
  724. # [17:20] * Quits: Martin1982 (~Martin198@cable-175-208.zeelandnet.nl) (Quit: Gone snoring)
  725. # [17:24] * Joins: jryans (~jryans@office.massrel.com)
  726. # [17:25] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  727. # [17:26] * Joins: nimbu1 (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  728. # [17:26] * Quits: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com) (Quit: yodasw16)
  729. # [17:26] * Joins: garciawebdev (~garciaweb@190.244.74.107)
  730. # [17:26] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  731. # [17:30] * Quits: nimbu1 (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  732. # [17:33] * Joins: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-yfoxxkqrqcaalszk)
  733. # [17:34] * Quits: mitemitreski (~mitemitre@212.120.17.179) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  734. # [17:36] * Joins: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com)
  735. # [17:38] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  736. # [17:38] * Joins: nimbu1 (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  737. # [17:46] * Quits: hallvors (~hallvord@office.oslo.opera.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  738. # [17:46] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  739. # [17:53] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  740. # [17:53] * Joins: espadrine (~ttyl@tsf-444-wpa-0-146.epfl.ch)
  741. # [17:55] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  742. # [17:55] * toyoshim is now known as toyoshiAw
  743. # [17:55] * Quits: krit (~krit@c-24-4-184-107.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  744. # [17:55] * Joins: krit (~krit@c-24-4-184-107.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  745. # [17:56] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Remote host closed the connection)
  746. # [17:58] * Quits: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  747. # [17:59] * Joins: frozenice (~frozenice@unaffiliated/fr0zenice)
  748. # [18:00] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@sjfw1-a.adobe.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  749. # [18:00] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@sjfw1-a.adobe.com)
  750. # [18:00] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@213.219.188.212.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net)
  751. # [18:02] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  752. # [18:03] * Joins: Kolombiken1 (~Adium@94.137.124.2)
  753. # [18:05] * Quits: nimbu1 (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  754. # [18:06] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@76.74.153.41) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  755. # [18:06] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@94.137.124.2) (Ping timeout: 288 seconds)
  756. # [18:07] * Quits: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.108.106.115) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  757. # [18:07] * Joins: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.108.106.115)
  758. # [18:08] * Joins: nimbu1 (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  759. # [18:10] * Joins: tantek-ipod (~tantek@70-36-197-111.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  760. # [18:17] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13)
  761. # [18:18] * Joins: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  762. # [18:18] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@192.150.22.55)
  763. # [18:18] * Quits: JibberJim (~opera@132.185.151.37) (Quit: JibberJim)
  764. # [18:21] * Quits: tantek-ipod (~tantek@70-36-197-111.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi)
  765. # [18:24] * Joins: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:f581:e4bf:6290:63f6)
  766. # [18:27] * Joins: Andreo_ (~Andreo@177.18.126.55)
  767. # [18:28] * Quits: benbarnett (~Adium@195.81.245.98) (Quit: Leaving.)
  768. # [18:29] * Quits: jryans (~jryans@office.massrel.com) (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
  769. # [18:29] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@203.69.99.16) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  770. # [18:31] * Quits: Andreo (~Andreo@177.18.126.55) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  771. # [18:32] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@108-75-75-178.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  772. # [18:33] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no)
  773. # [18:36] * Quits: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.108.106.115) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  774. # [18:36] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  775. # [18:38] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
  776. # [18:38] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  777. # [18:39] * Joins: alecf (alecf@nat/google/x-ylusmqidodtfeqdd)
  778. # [18:42] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
  779. # [18:43] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  780. # [18:44] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-epbqfuwmqbokpzdt)
  781. # [18:45] * Quits: aklein (uid4454@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rlydpdvvvgzrjlta) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  782. # [18:47] * Quits: nimbu1 (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  783. # [18:47] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  784. # [18:49] * Quits: espadrine (~ttyl@tsf-444-wpa-0-146.epfl.ch) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  785. # [18:50] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@109.133.50.61)
  786. # [18:51] * Joins: WeirdAl (~chatzilla@g2spf.ask.info)
  787. # [18:56] * Joins: nimbu1 (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  788. # [18:56] * Joins: JonathanNeal (~JonathanN@38.122.109.194)
  789. # [18:57] <JonathanNeal> hello
  790. # [18:57] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.10.18)
  791. # [18:58] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@c-67-180-21-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  792. # [18:59] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.10.18) (Client Quit)
  793. # [19:00] * Quits: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com) (Quit: yodasw16)
  794. # [19:00] * Joins: mygan (~mygan@78-70-166-27-no181.tbcn.telia.com)
  795. # [19:01] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@207.218.72.65) (Remote host closed the connection)
  796. # [19:04] * Quits: chriseppstein (ceppstei@dagmar.corp.linkedin.com) (Quit: chriseppstein)
  797. # [19:04] * Joins: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.108.106.115)
  798. # [19:04] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@70.102.199.158)
  799. # [19:06] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Remote host closed the connection)
  800. # [19:06] * Joins: Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  801. # [19:07] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
  802. # [19:09] <Ms2ger> tobie, so why hide the documentation away into another repo?
  803. # [19:10] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Remote host closed the connection)
  804. # [19:10] * Joins: jonnybarnes (~jonny@jjjjbarnes.plus.com)
  805. # [19:11] * Parts: jonnybarnes (~jonny@jjjjbarnes.plus.com) ("Leaving")
  806. # [19:15] * Joins: linclark (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
  807. # [19:19] * Quits: ambv (~ambv@aded28.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  808. # [19:19] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.10.18)
  809. # [19:22] * Quits: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  810. # [19:22] * Joins: scor (scor@nat/acquia/x-xawrddxmbnpixfdk)
  811. # [19:22] * Quits: scor (scor@nat/acquia/x-xawrddxmbnpixfdk) (Changing host)
  812. # [19:22] * Joins: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  813. # [19:29] * Quits: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  814. # [19:29] * Joins: ambv (~ambv@user-94-254-146-118.play-internet.pl)
  815. # [19:29] * Joins: say2joe (~say2joe@cpe-76-94-56-94.socal.res.rr.com)
  816. # [19:29] <JonathanNeal> Do spans or divs imply anything other than logical grouping?
  817. # [19:29] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-197-111.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  818. # [19:29] * Parts: say2joe (~say2joe@cpe-76-94-56-94.socal.res.rr.com)
  819. # [19:34] * Joins: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled)
  820. # [19:34] * Joins: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  821. # [19:35] <Ms2ger> No
  822. # [19:38] <JonathanNeal> Are there any best practices for divs and spans that I should know about?
  823. # [19:38] <TabAtkins> Don't overuse them, but don't contort yourself trying to underuse them either?
  824. # [19:39] <JonathanNeal> Like, how liberally can they be used? Is it appropriate to use divs for text-only content, or is it appropriate to put block level elements inside a span?
  825. # [19:39] <TabAtkins> Putting blocks in a <span> will likely have bad layout effects, due to the inline-breaking behavior. Using a <div> for text content is fine if the text is naturally block-like.
  826. # [19:39] <TabAtkins> The default presentation implies a modicum of semantics, but that's it.
  827. # [19:40] <JonathanNeal> I was making a devil's argument in another channel that one could do away with divs.
  828. # [19:41] <TabAtkins> You really can't. And you shouldn't try to.
  829. # [19:41] <TabAtkins> HTML does not and will not try to express all possible semantics.
  830. # [19:42] <JonathanNeal> I'm not sure one "can't".
  831. # [19:42] <TabAtkins> For arbitrary web content, you can't.
  832. # [19:42] <JonathanNeal> I haven't found any situations where a span can't be there, unlike a div, which has restrictions.
  833. # [19:43] <TabAtkins> If you're willing to tweak 'display', a <span> and a <div> are identical, yes.
  834. # [19:43] <JonathanNeal> Except that a <div> will be forced out of certain block level elements, like <p>.
  835. # [19:48] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-epbqfuwmqbokpzdt) (Quit: sicking)
  836. # [19:48] * Joins: frozenice` (~frozenice@unaffiliated/fr0zenice)
  837. # [19:49] * Quits: frozenice (~frozenice@unaffiliated/fr0zenice) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  838. # [19:49] * frozenice` is now known as frozenice
  839. # [19:53] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-50-136-134-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: othermaciej)
  840. # [19:53] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  841. # [19:54] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  842. # [19:57] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-iaprihatjsgwozrv)
  843. # [19:58] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no)
  844. # [19:59] * Quits: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.108.106.115) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  845. # [20:02] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@90.193.25.25)
  846. # [20:02] * Joins: chriseppstein (ceppstei@dagmar.corp.linkedin.com)
  847. # [20:03] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  848. # [20:05] * Joins: espadrine (~ttyl@tsf-444-wpa-0-146.epfl.ch)
  849. # [20:06] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@109.133.50.61) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  850. # [20:09] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  851. # [20:13] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  852. # [20:13] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  853. # [20:16] * Joins: jryans (~jryans@office.massrel.com)
  854. # [20:19] * Quits: ambv (~ambv@user-94-254-146-118.play-internet.pl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  855. # [20:19] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  856. # [20:20] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@109.133.50.61)
  857. # [20:28] <TabAtkins> JonathanNeal: That's a benefit for those of us who like to utilize end-tag omission. ^_^
  858. # [20:29] * Joins: reyre_ (~reyre_@142.204.133.18)
  859. # [20:32] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-197-111.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  860. # [20:33] * Joins: benbarnett (~Adium@149.241.223.250)
  861. # [20:33] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~JonathanN@38.122.109.194) (Quit: JonathanNeal)
  862. # [20:34] * Joins: ambv (~ambv@user-94-254-146-118.play-internet.pl)
  863. # [20:36] * Joins: JonathanNeal (~JonathanN@38.122.109.194)
  864. # [20:36] * Joins: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com)
  865. # [20:38] * Joins: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.108.106.115)
  866. # [20:39] * Quits: ambv (~ambv@user-94-254-146-118.play-internet.pl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  867. # [20:40] <JonathanNeal> end-tag omission works great until you're next element isn't regularly recognized by IE8. <p>lorem<section>ahhh i didn't break in IE, oh the humanity</section>
  868. # [20:43] * Joins: josemanuel (~josemanue@179.236.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
  869. # [20:43] * Quits: benbarnett (~Adium@149.241.223.250) (Quit: Leaving.)
  870. # [20:43] * Joins: aklein (uid4454@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dnsfvpdjwwkvwfef)
  871. # [20:45] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.10.18) (Quit: weinig)
  872. # [20:46] <TabAtkins> Don't have to care, wheeee!
  873. # [20:47] * Quits: Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
  874. # [20:48] <JonathanNeal> :)
  875. # [20:50] * Quits: chriseppstein (ceppstei@dagmar.corp.linkedin.com) (Quit: chriseppstein)
  876. # [20:52] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@sjfw1-a.adobe.com) (Quit: lmclister)
  877. # [20:55] * ImBcmDth is now known as ImBcmGnrlssmo
  878. # [20:55] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.10.18)
  879. # [20:56] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.10.18) (Client Quit)
  880. # [20:57] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.10.18)
  881. # [20:59] * Joins: AladinBouzerd_ (~aladinbou@41.108.106.115)
  882. # [21:00] * Joins: ambv (~ambv@user-94-254-146-118.play-internet.pl)
  883. # [21:00] * Quits: nimbu1 (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  884. # [21:00] * Quits: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.108.106.115) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  885. # [21:04] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@17.212.154.114)
  886. # [21:05] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.114.2.245)
  887. # [21:06] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.114.2.245) (Client Quit)
  888. # [21:08] * Quits: ambv (~ambv@user-94-254-146-118.play-internet.pl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  889. # [21:12] * ImBcmGnrlssmo is now known as ImBcmDth
  890. # [21:17] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  891. # [21:17] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  892. # [21:17] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-iaprihatjsgwozrv) (Quit: sicking)
  893. # [21:22] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  894. # [21:22] * Joins: Maurice` (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  895. # [21:22] * Joins: jreading (~Adium@50-201-41-253-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  896. # [21:23] * Quits: JibberJim (~opera@90.193.25.25) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  897. # [21:25] * Joins: chriseppstein (ceppstei@dagmar.corp.linkedin.com)
  898. # [21:27] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  899. # [21:27] * Joins: ap_ (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:c1c0:753d:6b4e:c729)
  900. # [21:29] * Joins: nimbu1 (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  901. # [21:29] * Quits: eric_carlson (~eric@17.212.152.104) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  902. # [21:29] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@17.212.154.114) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  903. # [21:29] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  904. # [21:30] * Quits: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:f581:e4bf:6290:63f6) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  905. # [21:30] * ap_ is now known as ap
  906. # [21:30] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  907. # [21:30] * Joins: ambv (~ambv@user-94-254-146-118.play-internet.pl)
  908. # [21:31] * Quits: jonlee|afk (~jonlee@17.212.153.19) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  909. # [21:31] * Quits: dgorbik (~dgorbik@2620:149:4:203:4114:c974:815:985d) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  910. # [21:33] * Quits: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it) (Quit: Leaving)
  911. # [21:35] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@17.212.154.114)
  912. # [21:35] * Quits: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:c1c0:753d:6b4e:c729) (Quit: ap)
  913. # [21:38] * Joins: nimbu2 (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  914. # [21:40] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  915. # [21:40] * Quits: nimbu1 (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  916. # [21:41] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-197-111.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  917. # [21:44] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  918. # [21:44] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  919. # [21:45] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@94.15.67.68)
  920. # [21:46] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~JonathanN@38.122.109.194) (Quit: JonathanNeal)
  921. # [21:46] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-197-111.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  922. # [21:47] <tobie> Ms2ger: re docs: good question. Short answer: it didn't cross my mind (and I guess that's because I don't like having completely different content in branches of the same repository).
  923. # [21:47] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.10.18) (Quit: weinig)
  924. # [21:47] * Joins: JonathanNeal (~JonathanN@38.122.109.194)
  925. # [21:48] <jgraham> branches?
  926. # [21:49] <tobie> branches!
  927. # [21:50] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13)
  928. # [21:52] * Quits: Badreddin (~Nur@189.192.138.187) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
  929. # [21:53] <Hixie> zcorpan: yt?
  930. # [21:54] <zcorpan> Hixie: yes
  931. # [21:54] <Hixie> zcorpan: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=15588
  932. # [21:54] <Hixie> zcorpan: do you want something from me for this? do you want to take it for now? any input?
  933. # [21:55] * Quits: wycats__ (uid79@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fraowjkggwdnbxvv) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  934. # [21:56] <Hixie> also https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=14703
  935. # [21:56] * Quits: frozenice (~frozenice@unaffiliated/fr0zenice) (Remote host closed the connection)
  936. # [21:56] <Hixie> though presumably that one will definitely require something from me
  937. # [21:56] <zcorpan> Hixie: i don't know. if you have anything useful to add, comment in the bug. i'll take a closer look at it tomorrow
  938. # [21:57] * Quits: JakeA (uid3836@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-htwjomsqjurlrfvq) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  939. # [21:58] * Quits: twisted` (uid6794@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-htrngdvanrcbmadg) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  940. # [21:58] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@sjfw1-a.adobe.com)
  941. # [21:58] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98) (Remote host closed the connection)
  942. # [21:59] * Quits: shaundunne__ (uid5048@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-orpjwdaqhlrwexrb) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  943. # [22:00] * Joins: jamesr (jamesr@nat/google/x-xjbgijmlhuynoyeo)
  944. # [22:01] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-xoboeuwuxghcgptv)
  945. # [22:01] <Hixie> zcorpan: nothing that i haven't already added
  946. # [22:01] <Hixie> zcorpan: thanks
  947. # [22:01] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98)
  948. # [22:01] * Quits: vcarbune (~vcarbune@84-74-140-149.dclient.hispeed.ch) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  949. # [22:01] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no)
  950. # [22:01] <tobie> Ms2ger: that said, I see benefits to both options and I'm absolutely open to changing if there's consensus to doing so and someone's willing to do the work (migrating GH issues, essentially).
  951. # [22:02] * Joins: Andreo__ (~Andreo@177.18.126.55)
  952. # [22:02] <Ms2ger> tobie, don't feel too strongly either
  953. # [22:03] * Quits: alecf (alecf@nat/google/x-ylusmqidodtfeqdd) (Quit: alecf)
  954. # [22:05] * Quits: Andreo_ (~Andreo@177.18.126.55) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  955. # [22:06] * Joins: alecf (alecf@nat/google/x-iznzabcbehxrrzbk)
  956. # [22:10] <jgraham> (I don't see why there would be branches with different content)
  957. # [22:11] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-xoboeuwuxghcgptv) (Quit: sicking)
  958. # [22:13] * Quits: alecf (alecf@nat/google/x-iznzabcbehxrrzbk) (Quit: alecf)
  959. # [22:16] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@108-75-75-178.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  960. # [22:17] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  961. # [22:17] * Joins: say2joe (~say2joe@cpe-76-94-56-94.socal.res.rr.com)
  962. # [22:18] * Parts: say2joe (~say2joe@cpe-76-94-56-94.socal.res.rr.com)
  963. # [22:20] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  964. # [22:21] * Joins: alecf (alecf@nat/google/x-ubjwkygaketrzups)
  965. # [22:22] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  966. # [22:24] * Quits: alecf (alecf@nat/google/x-ubjwkygaketrzups) (Client Quit)
  967. # [22:27] * Quits: AladinBouzerd_ (~aladinbou@41.108.106.115) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  968. # [22:28] * Quits: josemanuel (~josemanue@179.236.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) (Quit: Saliendo)
  969. # [22:29] * jarek is now known as Guest56707
  970. # [22:29] * Joins: jarek_ (~jarek@aecb131.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  971. # [22:29] * Joins: alecf (alecf@nat/google/x-zcjpyxjepnqtgpeq)
  972. # [22:29] * Quits: ambv (~ambv@user-94-254-146-118.play-internet.pl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  973. # [22:30] * Quits: Guest56707 (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  974. # [22:33] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@109.133.50.61) (Quit: nn)
  975. # [22:33] <zcorpan> Hixie: if you could file bugs for https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=14703#c6 that'd be splendid (select text in the spec to file a bug)
  976. # [22:33] * Quits: jarek_ (~jarek@aecb131.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Client Quit)
  977. # [22:34] * Joins: jarek_ (~jarek@aecb131.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  978. # [22:35] * Quits: jarek_ (~jarek@aecb131.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Changing host)
  979. # [22:35] * Joins: jarek_ (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  980. # [22:35] * jarek_ is now known as jarek
  981. # [22:36] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@c-76-21-12-207.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  982. # [22:37] * Joins: vcarbune (~vcarbune@84-74-140-149.dclient.hispeed.ch)
  983. # [22:40] * Joins: Jarrod_ (~Jarrod_@76.77.66.100)
  984. # [22:40] * Quits: Jarrod_ (~Jarrod_@76.77.66.100) (Changing host)
  985. # [22:40] * Joins: Jarrod_ (~Jarrod_@pdpc/supporter/active/jarrod)
  986. # [22:41] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  987. # [22:41] * Quits: tj_vantoll (~Adium@69.167.130.9) (Quit: Leaving.)
  988. # [22:42] * Quits: vcarbune (~vcarbune@84-74-140-149.dclient.hispeed.ch) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  989. # [22:42] * Quits: zdobersek (~zdobersek@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
  990. # [22:43] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@213.219.188.212.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net)
  991. # [22:44] <zcorpan> Hixie: maybe HTML needs to use something along the lines of http://dev.w3.org/csswg/cssom/#requirements-on-user-agents-implementing-the-xml-stylesheet-processing-instruction for <link>?
  992. # [22:44] * Joins: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
  993. # [22:45] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  994. # [22:45] * Quits: reyre_ (~reyre_@142.204.133.18) (Remote host closed the connection)
  995. # [22:47] <zcorpan> man, the xml-stylesheet spec is horrible to read, being in terms of infoset
  996. # [22:47] <zcorpan> "[Definition: A processing instruction information item is said to be a potential xml-stylesheet processing instruction if it has the [target] property xml-stylesheet and it either is in the [children] property of a document information item and appears before the element information item of the document information item's [children] property, or it appears in the [children] property of a document type declaration informat
  997. # [22:47] <zcorpan> ion item.]"
  998. # [22:50] * Joins: jonlee (~jonlee@17.212.153.19)
  999. # [22:53] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Quit: Leaving)
  1000. # [22:54] * Quits: nimbu2 (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  1001. # [22:55] * Quits: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com) (Quit: yodasw16)
  1002. # [22:56] * Joins: boogyman (~dividingl@pdpc/supporter/professional/boogyman)
  1003. # [22:58] * Quits: jonlee (~jonlee@17.212.153.19) (Quit: jonlee)
  1004. # [22:58] * Joins: jonlee (~jonlee@17.212.153.19)
  1005. # [22:58] * Joins: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.108.23.61)
  1006. # [23:00] * Joins: nimbu1 (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  1007. # [23:00] <Hixie> zcorpan: yeah, i assume so
  1008. # [23:00] <Hixie> zcorpan: and yes, will file bugs
  1009. # [23:00] <zcorpan> thanks!
  1010. # [23:00] * Quits: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  1011. # [23:02] * nimbu1 is now known as divya
  1012. # [23:02] <Hixie> am i dumb? why is firefox giving me NS_ERROR_FAILURE on http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?saved=2266 ?
  1013. # [23:04] * Quits: yoav (~yoav@sdo26-1-78-245-148-181.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  1014. # [23:05] * Joins: AladinBouzerd_ (~aladinbou@41.108.23.61)
  1015. # [23:05] <Hixie> seems to work in hixie.ch/www/tests/adhoc/dom/level0/history/pushState/003.html
  1016. # [23:05] <Hixie> er, http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/dom/level0/history/pushState/a/b/c/
  1017. # [23:05] <Hixie> er
  1018. # [23:05] <Hixie> er, http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/dom/level0/history/pushState/003.html
  1019. # [23:05] <Hixie> sheesh
  1020. # [23:06] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~JonathanN@38.122.109.194) (Quit: JonathanNeal)
  1021. # [23:06] * Quits: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.108.23.61) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  1022. # [23:07] <Hixie> well webkit's behaviour is odd
  1023. # [23:09] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  1024. # [23:10] * Quits: AladinBouzerd_ (~aladinbou@41.108.23.61) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  1025. # [23:11] * Joins: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.108.23.61)
  1026. # [23:11] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  1027. # [23:13] * Joins: AladinBouzerd_ (~aladinbou@41.108.23.61)
  1028. # [23:14] * Joins: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:c1c0:753d:6b4e:c729)
  1029. # [23:14] * Joins: twisted` (uid6794@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yxmoewmlqindxcba)
  1030. # [23:16] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  1031. # [23:16] * Quits: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.108.23.61) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  1032. # [23:16] * Joins: yoav (~yoav@sdo26-1-78-245-148-181.fbx.proxad.net)
  1033. # [23:17] * Quits: Maurice` (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  1034. # [23:19] * GPHemsley gets "error: NS_ERROR_XPC_NOT_ENOUGH_ARGS: Not enough arguments [nsIDOMHistory.pushState] on line 5" on the first link
  1035. # [23:19] <GPHemsley> Hixie: ^
  1036. # [23:19] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  1037. # [23:21] * Joins: a-ja (~Instantbi@70.230.152.154)
  1038. # [23:21] * Quits: jreading (~Adium@50-201-41-253-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  1039. # [23:22] <zcorpan> how do people pronounce "@charset"? is it "charset" or "at-charset"?
  1040. # [23:22] <divya> why dont you ask twitter zcorpan
  1041. # [23:23] <Hixie> GPHemsley: sorry, i meant http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?saved=2267
  1042. # [23:24] <zcorpan> divya: done
  1043. # [23:24] <zcorpan> divya: now you have to answer the question :-P
  1044. # [23:24] <Hixie> it's pronounced at-car-set
  1045. # [23:24] <divya> who is the inventor of charset
  1046. # [23:24] <divya> plz give that person a webby award
  1047. # [23:25] <divya> and ask how to pronounce it
  1048. # [23:25] <zcorpan> Hixie: even if the next word is "at-rule"?
  1049. # [23:25] <Hixie> divya: so you know what the wrong way to pronounce it is? :-P
  1050. # [23:25] <Hixie> zcorpan: know, the next word is just "rule"
  1051. # [23:25] <Hixie> er
  1052. # [23:25] <Hixie> "no"
  1053. # [23:25] <Hixie> not "know"
  1054. # [23:25] <Hixie> man
  1055. # [23:25] <divya> Hixie: i have always said CHHHAR
  1056. # [23:25] <divya> not car
  1057. # [23:25] <Hixie> k-har?
  1058. # [23:26] <Hixie> or tshar?
  1059. # [23:26] <divya> TSHARRR
  1060. # [23:26] <divya> English sucks
  1061. # [23:26] <Hixie> it's not tshar
  1062. # [23:26] <Hixie> it's short for "character"
  1063. # [23:26] <divya> yes i knooo
  1064. # [23:26] <divya> but i cannot get myself to say car
  1065. # [23:26] <Hixie> (a lot of people agree with you)
  1066. # [23:26] <zcorpan> Hixie: css-syntax uses "at-rule" so i wanted to hook in to that :-|
  1067. # [23:26] <Hixie> (you're all wroooong)
  1068. # [23:26] <divya> ALL WRONG!
  1069. # [23:26] <divya> what did I tell you zcorpan
  1070. # [23:26] <divya> like 100 responses
  1071. # [23:27] <divya> everyone likes to bikeshed
  1072. # [23:27] <divya> its delightful waste of our time
  1073. # [23:27] <Hixie> zcorpan: i would say "an at-rule" and "an at-car-set rule"
  1074. # [23:27] <Hixie> sometimes maybe "an at-car-set at-rule"
  1075. # [23:28] <zcorpan> poor @charset on twitter will wonder what the buzz is about
  1076. # [23:28] <divya> hahah
  1077. # [23:29] <GPHemsley> Shouldn't annevk have that account?
  1078. # [23:29] * Quits: mygan (~mygan@78-70-166-27-no181.tbcn.telia.com) (Quit: Leaving)
  1079. # [23:29] <GPHemsley> @charizard
  1080. # [23:30] <GPHemsley> better watch out for that rule
  1081. # [23:30] <Hixie> -_-
  1082. # [23:31] <GPHemsley> ^_^
  1083. # [23:32] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no)
  1084. # [23:33] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  1085. # [23:34] * Quits: tobie (~tobielang@73-118.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch) (Quit: tobie)
  1086. # [23:35] <zcorpan> Hixie: something being an abbreviation of something else doesn't imply that it's pronounced as part of the original word
  1087. # [23:36] <Hixie> counter example?
  1088. # [23:37] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  1089. # [23:37] * Quits: rubatdub (~khalil@213.188.180.185) (Quit: Quitte)
  1090. # [23:37] <zcorpan> Hixie: do you say "car" with the "a" as in "park" or with the "a" as in "character"?
  1091. # [23:39] <zcorpan> (i guess the latter would be more like "care")
  1092. # [23:39] * Quits: espadrine (~ttyl@tsf-444-wpa-0-146.epfl.ch) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  1093. # [23:39] <Hixie> i pronounce the a in car the same as in cart, park, lark, farm
  1094. # [23:40] <Hixie> so i guess, fair enough
  1095. # [23:41] <zcorpan> :-)
  1096. # [23:41] <Hixie> in other news, i can never figure out insertBefore()'s arguments
  1097. # [23:42] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  1098. # [23:42] <zcorpan> yeah same here. i always get them wrong on the first try
  1099. # [23:42] * Quits: TallTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  1100. # [23:42] * Quits: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1101. # [23:46] <Hixie> anyone disagree with my logic for base URLs in the source of http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/dom/level0/history/pushState/003.html ?
  1102. # [23:46] <Hixie> (note that WebKit doesn't do it that way)
  1103. # [23:46] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  1104. # [23:46] <Hixie> (but Gecko seems to)
  1105. # [23:47] * gavinc has oddly been staring at baseuri and pushstate all week
  1106. # [23:47] * gavinc goes to read
  1107. # [23:49] <gavinc> Restating base doesn't change anything in HTML?
  1108. # [23:49] <Hixie> only the first <base href> matters
  1109. # [23:50] <gavinc> the comment on 24 is wrong
  1110. # [23:50] <gavinc> but the result is correct
  1111. # [23:50] <gavinc> At least my reading ;)
  1112. # [23:51] <gavinc> It's 'cause the base url before d is now set from back at line 16
  1113. # [23:51] <gavinc> right?
  1114. # [23:51] <gavinc> Nothing magic about "remembering" the base from the old <base>
  1115. # [23:51] <Hixie> how is it wrong?
  1116. # [23:52] <Hixie> i don't follow
  1117. # [23:52] <Hixie> (see https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18459#c11 for context btw)
  1118. # [23:53] <gavinc> Right!
  1119. # [23:53] <gavinc> and when it gets resolved, it's resolved realitive to the current document URI which is now the base since the old <base> went away
  1120. # [23:53] <gavinc> the "remembered" bit is confusing to me
  1121. # [23:54] <gavinc> there just isn't a <base> anymore, so it's the document URI again
  1122. # [23:54] <gavinc> and then there is a base again so add d/
  1123. # [23:54] <Hixie> by "remembered" i mean "stored for future use"
  1124. # [23:54] <gavinc> ... I don't think it is however...
  1125. # [23:54] <gavinc> is it?
  1126. # [23:55] <Hixie> if it wasn't, the base URL would have to be recomputed each time it was needed
  1127. # [23:55] <gavinc> Isn't it just dropping back to the Document URI
  1128. # [23:55] <Hixie> so the pushState() calls would matter
  1129. # [23:55] <Hixie> s/matter/immediately change the base URL/
  1130. # [23:55] * Joins: say2joe (~say2joe@cpe-76-94-56-94.socal.res.rr.com)
  1131. # [23:56] * Joins: wycats__ (uid79@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tsnzchxqjvjekogy)
  1132. # [23:56] * Parts: say2joe (~say2joe@cpe-76-94-56-94.socal.res.rr.com)
  1133. # [23:56] <Hixie> reload to see new phrasing of comments
  1134. # [23:56] <gavinc> Okay, now I agree, yes :D
  1135. # [23:57] <Hixie> excellent
  1136. # [23:57] * Joins: JakeA (uid3836@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fweywmxywhemjvck)
  1137. # [23:58] * Joins: shaundunne__ (uid5048@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vtafwlpqqgbikthk)
  1138. # [23:58] <gavinc> ... base uri is hard to explain...
  1139. # [23:58] <Hixie> little bit
  1140. # [23:59] * Quits: boogyman (~dividingl@pdpc/supporter/professional/boogyman) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  1141. # Session Close: Fri May 31 00:00:00 2013

The end :)