/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-06-03 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Mon Jun 03 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:06] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  4. # [00:07] * Joins: boogyman (~dividingl@68.200.9.63)
  5. # [00:07] * Quits: boogyman (~dividingl@68.200.9.63) (Changing host)
  6. # [00:07] * Joins: boogyman (~dividingl@pdpc/supporter/professional/boogyman)
  7. # [00:11] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  8. # [00:19] * Joins: dydz (~dydz@coffeebar.static.monkeybrains.net)
  9. # [00:23] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-47-240.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
  10. # [00:23] <zewt> ms2ger (this is a test of the Ms2ger Reads Logs system): i don't think "spec algorithms propagate exceptions by default" makes sense, since that would leave the precise behavior underspecified
  11. # [00:24] <zewt> If this results in an exception, then abort the overall structured clone algorithm, with that exception being passed through to the caller."
  12. # [00:24] <zewt> thanks irc client for removing the first half of my line
  13. # [00:24] <zewt> in many places html says things like ^
  14. # [00:28] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.212.155.102) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  15. # [00:29] * Quits: NimeshNeema (uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dfzvydjixwtcjxfc) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  16. # [00:35] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@173-228-123-209.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  17. # [00:37] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  18. # [00:37] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  19. # [00:41] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.111.75)
  20. # [00:43] * Quits: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.108.31.101) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  21. # [00:43] * Parts: wakaba (~wakaba@147.63.138.58.dy.bbexcite.jp) ("Leaving...")
  22. # [00:43] * pdr|brb is now known as pdr
  23. # [00:43] * Joins: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.108.31.101)
  24. # [00:48] * Quits: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.108.31.101) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  25. # [00:51] * Joins: chriseppstein (~ceppstei@99-6-85-4.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  26. # [01:01] * Joins: birtles (~chatzilla@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net)
  27. # [01:05] <dekiss> is it dangerious to use new html5 elements? for security
  28. # [01:05] <Hixie> we don't really call it html5 anymore, it's just html
  29. # [01:05] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  30. # [01:06] <Hixie> and to answer your question: in general, no, though specific elements may have security concerns you should be aware of
  31. # [01:06] <Hixie> like iframe
  32. # [01:07] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  33. # [01:08] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  34. # [01:08] <dekiss> hey Hixie thanks for help
  35. # [01:09] <dekiss> when html 5 will be w3c recomendatiton (w3c implements it like html5.)
  36. # [01:09] <dekiss> and why it implements it like html5.. but thats another subject :)
  37. # [01:10] <Hixie> don't ask me, i don't see much point in the w3c's work on html
  38. # [01:10] <dekiss> I plan to use drag drop and content editable and such for my new website
  39. # [01:10] <dekiss> you work together on the spec?
  40. # [01:10] <Hixie> no, they just copy what we do and then screw it up
  41. # [01:11] <dekiss> hah :)
  42. # [01:11] <Hixie> (intentionally sometimes, unintentionally other times)
  43. # [01:11] <dekiss> I tell kids you work together on it ^^ :D
  44. # [01:11] <zewt> (you think he's joking)
  45. # [01:11] <dekiss> zewt nope :D
  46. # [01:11] <dekiss> hm
  47. # [01:12] <dekiss> Hixie I have though about this subject alot honestly, and I think that w3c had other plans for the web then browser vendors
  48. # [01:12] <dekiss> I think they wanted to make direction for the web in where it will go in the future
  49. # [01:13] <Hixie> it's a mistake to assign to the w3c a single desire or direction
  50. # [01:13] <dekiss> though I never have read xhtml specs entirely
  51. # [01:13] <Hixie> as a venue for multiple companies to discuss matters, there are many opinions
  52. # [01:17] <zewt> also the w3c can have all the "plans" for the web they want, they can also want a singing unicorn
  53. # [01:18] <dekiss> they are good people
  54. # [01:19] <dekiss> they mean good for web and people, its just different people different opinions
  55. # [01:19] <zewt> everyone means well, that doesn't go very far :)
  56. # [01:20] <Hixie> not sure what you mean by "good people" in this context
  57. # [01:20] <dekiss> if yo uask me, I want web to be free and opened to as much peopel as posible -(peopel with assistive technology most),
  58. # [01:20] <Hixie> i have definitely met people through the w3c who were quite happy to put their corporation's interests ahead of the web's
  59. # [01:20] <Hixie> which doesn't seem "good" to me
  60. # [01:20] <Hixie> q.v. the w3c working on drm now
  61. # [01:20] <dekiss> but that is only way web will go I think it will develop a lot in the future as the demand for it is enormous
  62. # [01:21] <dekiss> Hixie hm
  63. # [01:21] <dekiss> yeah there are such people everywhere
  64. # [01:21] <dekiss> when I say 'they' I refer to Tim :0
  65. # [01:21] <dekiss> and people liek him, I beleive they hold key positions, but ye I am against paid membership
  66. # [01:22] <dekiss> its only around 2000 $ yearly for my country for 1 year membership
  67. # [01:22] <Hixie> not clear that tim does anything for the web these days, unless you count the rdf stuff, and i'm not even sure he's much involved in that anymore
  68. # [01:22] <dekiss> that means almost anyone can get in
  69. # [01:22] <dekiss> if you ask me I think there should not be paid membership, but only membership with some work done in the past, people with titles etc prizes
  70. # [01:23] <dekiss> not money
  71. # [01:24] <dekiss> Hixie I think its time for new ceo of w3c
  72. # [01:24] <dekiss> or he must take work in his hands
  73. # [01:24] <dekiss> and fix things
  74. # [01:25] <dekiss> I think web lacks a lot of legislation
  75. # [01:25] <dekiss> in my country for example they only added few laws that include web in 2-3 years ago
  76. # [01:26] <dekiss> and they have no idea how to regulate other stuff that is on the web
  77. # [01:26] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
  78. # [01:26] <dekiss> first thing msut be done is forbid adult content from web at all liek chinese did
  79. # [01:27] <tdsmith> sounds uncontroversial
  80. # [01:27] <dekiss> here I watch 12 year old kids go on some "web portal" some bad web site and see - News, Poliics, Economy, SEX & EROTICS, sport, culture, showbiz..
  81. # [01:27] <dekiss> I mean cmon.. every so called web portal has sex and erotics section these days
  82. # [01:27] <dekiss> at least in my country
  83. # [01:27] <dekiss> and next to the website there are ads from t-mobile and such..
  84. # [01:28] <dekiss> second thing is microsoft and viruses
  85. # [01:28] <dekiss> and hacks
  86. # [01:28] <dekiss> ddos third
  87. # [01:28] <dekiss> etc
  88. # [01:28] <dekiss> imo icann iana ietf w3c wahtwg should come in one body and regulate this stuff asap
  89. # [01:29] <dekiss> add soem security work with countries to make legislations
  90. # [01:29] <zewt> ... standards bodies != governments ...
  91. # [01:30] <dekiss> zewt they must colaborate
  92. # [01:30] <zewt> (and the idea of the w3c influencing legislation is a bit terrifying)
  93. # [01:30] <dekiss> to make web good place
  94. # [01:30] <dekiss> not influencing but workign together with governments to make laws
  95. # [01:30] <dekiss> working together != influence
  96. # [01:31] <zewt> well no working together == influence
  97. # [01:31] <dekiss> someone with clear mind must forbid adult and bizzare content from web
  98. # [01:31] <dekiss> and all countries must apply that
  99. # [01:31] <dekiss> yo ucan find literally anything these days on the web
  100. # [01:31] <dekiss> and web is given to kids of 12 years or younger and they can easy see this content
  101. # [01:31] <dekiss> just write it on google and boom you have it..
  102. # [01:32] <dekiss> that is very very bad for the world
  103. # [01:32] <TabAtkins> lolwut
  104. # [01:32] <zewt> TabAtkins: don't ask me
  105. # [01:32] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  106. # [01:32] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  107. # [01:32] <dekiss> someone must stand up and say from tomorow there is no adult content and bizzare content on the web and content is censored
  108. # [01:33] <TabAtkins> Lots of people stand up and say that today. They're all stupid, wrong, and don't get anything done besides wasting money.
  109. # [01:33] <dekiss> otherwise mee too will keep my kid away from the web, because I know what he can see easy on the web..
  110. # [01:33] <dekiss> TabAtkins why you want bizzare content on the web?
  111. # [01:34] <dekiss> like videos of executions
  112. # [01:34] <dekiss> more bizzare is wehn I see these things on cnn but thats another subject
  113. # [01:34] <dekiss> TabAtkins chinese did something..
  114. # [01:35] <TabAtkins> That's... not a model to follow. Massive, government-run censorship is a terrible, terrible idea, and you're going back on ignore now.
  115. # [01:35] <dekiss> someone must decide what web is and where it should go and make it go that way, and I think web can go in thousand directions other then atracting visitors with videos of executioning people
  116. # [01:35] <dekiss> and adult content and trading pirated material and getting money for that
  117. # [01:36] <TabAtkins> And if you actually think Chinese people can't get access to porn and "bizarre" things, you're extremely naive.
  118. # [01:36] <dekiss> TabAtkins im not sure what chinese people can or canot view
  119. # [01:36] <dekiss> but there must be some change on the top level for the web
  120. # [01:36] <dekiss> this got out of control already
  121. # [01:36] <dekiss> TabAtkins and ok I dont care if you put me on ignore :D
  122. # [01:36] <zewt> indeed, the internet badly needs more pornography
  123. # [01:37] <zewt> i think the w3c needs to see to that
  124. # [01:37] <dekiss> zewt
  125. # [01:37] <dekiss> hah nvm
  126. # [01:37] <dekiss> I disagree with you man
  127. # [01:37] <dekiss> but i wont put you on ignore coz im not frustrated nerd :D
  128. # [01:37] <dekiss> I respect other opinions as I value people that I sepak to
  129. # [01:37] <dekiss> al have points
  130. # [01:37] <dekiss> zewt tell me your point
  131. # [01:38] <TabAtkins> Unless the other people are "frustrated nerds", apparently.
  132. # [01:38] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  133. # [01:38] <Philip`> TabAtkins: I think your ignore feature is broken
  134. # [01:38] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  135. # [01:39] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-47-240.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  136. # [01:39] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@173-228-123-209.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  137. # [01:53] * Quits: dydz (~dydz@coffeebar.static.monkeybrains.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  138. # [02:01] * Joins: krit (~krit@p14100-ipngn4101marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  139. # [02:01] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@p14100-ipngn4101marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  140. # [02:02] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  141. # [02:08] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@p14100-ipngn4101marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving.)
  142. # [02:09] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@p14100-ipngn4101marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  143. # [02:09] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  144. # [02:13] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  145. # [02:13] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  146. # [02:15] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  147. # [02:24] * Quits: chriseppstein (~ceppstei@99-6-85-4.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: chriseppstein)
  148. # [02:25] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-197-111.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  149. # [02:26] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@118.103.85.246) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  150. # [02:26] * Joins: sgalineau (~sylvaing@c-98-247-242-151.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  151. # [02:33] * GPHemsley wonders what to do with http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/AAFC_Metadata_Application_Profile
  152. # [02:33] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@69-165-138-36.dsl.teksavvy.com)
  153. # [02:35] * Joins: NimeshNeema (uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iktllgmlorjnkjol)
  154. # [02:39] * Quits: [[zz]] (~q@node-1cn7.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  155. # [02:40] * Joins: vitorpacheco (~vitor@201-51-189-40.user.veloxzone.com.br)
  156. # [02:40] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@c-98-210-38-110.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  157. # [02:42] * Quits: sgalineau (~sylvaing@c-98-247-242-151.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  158. # [02:42] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@69-165-138-36.dsl.teksavvy.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  159. # [02:47] * Quits: josemanuel (~josemanue@204.215.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) (Quit: Saliendo)
  160. # [02:52] * Joins: [[zz]] (~q@node-cih.pool-125-25.dynamic.totbb.net)
  161. # [02:54] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net)
  162. # [02:59] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@69-165-138-36.dsl.teksavvy.com)
  163. # [02:59] * Quits: vitorpacheco (~vitor@201-51-189-40.user.veloxzone.com.br) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  164. # [03:05] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
  165. # [03:10] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  166. # [03:10] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  167. # [03:15] * Quits: boogyman (~dividingl@pdpc/supporter/professional/boogyman) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  168. # [03:16] * Joins: vitorpacheco (~vitor@201-51-189-40.user.veloxzone.com.br)
  169. # [03:33] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@69-165-138-36.dsl.teksavvy.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  170. # [03:36] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@p14100-ipngn4101marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  171. # [03:37] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@c-98-210-38-110.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: lmclister)
  172. # [03:40] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@c-98-210-38-110.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  173. # [03:40] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  174. # [03:41] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@c-98-210-38-110.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
  175. # [03:45] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  176. # [04:11] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com)
  177. # [04:11] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  178. # [04:15] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  179. # [04:22] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.111.75) (Quit: weinig)
  180. # [04:22] * Joins: SimonSapin1 (~simon@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net)
  181. # [04:25] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@p14100-ipngn4101marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  182. # [04:25] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  183. # [04:30] * Quits: ^esc (~esc_ape@178.115.248.179.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  184. # [04:31] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  185. # [04:32] * Joins: ^esc (~esc_ape@178.115.248.179.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
  186. # [04:36] * Quits: dekiss (~dekiss@77.29.142.2)
  187. # [04:38] * SimonSapin1 is now known as SimonSapin
  188. # [04:41] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  189. # [04:44] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-197-111.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  190. # [04:46] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  191. # [04:57] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@24.130.60.35)
  192. # [05:12] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  193. # [05:14] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  194. # [05:15] * Quits: rcombs (~rcombs@rodgercombs.tk) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  195. # [05:16] * Quits: vitorpacheco (~vitor@201-51-189-40.user.veloxzone.com.br) (Remote host closed the connection)
  196. # [05:17] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  197. # [05:19] * Joins: rcombs (~rcombs@rcombs.me)
  198. # [05:46] * Quits: barneybook (~kvirc@114-44-249-200.dynamic.hinet.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  199. # [05:47] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@p14100-ipngn4101marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving.)
  200. # [05:47] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  201. # [05:47] * Quits: krit (~krit@p14100-ipngn4101marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving.)
  202. # [05:52] * Quits: ojan (uid5519@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ibopybycnxbcpgtd) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  203. # [06:01] * Joins: jryans (~jryans@cpe-70-113-92-118.austin.res.rr.com)
  204. # [06:13] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  205. # [06:17] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  206. # [06:22] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: goodbye cruel world)
  207. # [06:24] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@24.130.60.35) (Quit: weinig)
  208. # [06:44] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  209. # [06:48] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  210. # [06:55] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  211. # [07:00] * Joins: barneybook (~kvirc@220-136-42-76.dynamic.hinet.net)
  212. # [07:08] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@p14100-ipngn4101marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  213. # [07:09] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  214. # [07:11] * Joins: krit (~krit@p14100-ipngn4101marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  215. # [07:12] * Joins: boogyman (~dividingl@pdpc/supporter/professional/boogyman)
  216. # [07:14] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  217. # [07:19] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  218. # [07:23] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  219. # [07:26] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  220. # [07:28] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
  221. # [07:29] * Quits: skcin7 (~skcin7@c-68-38-156-213.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) (Quit: skcin7)
  222. # [07:35] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  223. # [07:43] * pdr is now known as pdr|afk
  224. # [07:45] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  225. # [07:49] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  226. # [07:55] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@c-98-210-38-110.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  227. # [07:55] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@c-98-210-38-110.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
  228. # [08:09] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  229. # [08:17] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  230. # [08:22] * Joins: zdobersek (~zdobersek@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si)
  231. # [08:26] * Quits: jryans (~jryans@cpe-70-113-92-118.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: Be back later)
  232. # [08:30] * Joins: niloy (~niloy@115.112.64.6)
  233. # [08:30] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  234. # [08:31] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  235. # [08:33] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@8.25.154.252)
  236. # [08:33] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  237. # [08:33] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@170.238-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
  238. # [08:39] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  239. # [08:39] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net)
  240. # [08:44] <Ms2ger> zewt, test succeeded :)
  241. # [08:45] <Ms2ger> The issue is that checking for exceptions at every step is terribly error-prone
  242. # [08:45] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  243. # [08:50] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  244. # [08:52] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
  245. # [08:57] <zcorpan> this dekiss guy is adding a lot of noise
  246. # [08:58] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-197-111.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  247. # [08:59] * Joins: richt (~richt@125.152.230.204)
  248. # [08:59] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  249. # [09:04] * Joins: ondras (~ondras@zarovi.cz)
  250. # [09:06] * Quits: richt (~richt@125.152.230.204) (Remote host closed the connection)
  251. # [09:08] * Joins: mitemitreski (~mitemitre@212.120.17.179)
  252. # [09:09] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-47-240.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
  253. # [09:10] * Joins: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron)
  254. # [09:10] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@202-159-144-69.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  255. # [09:11] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@124-168-10-95.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  256. # [09:11] <zcorpan> can we make anolis warn about xref-able elements without a title that don't get xreffed?
  257. # [09:11] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  258. # [09:13] * Parts: ondras (~ondras@zarovi.cz)
  259. # [09:15] <Ms2ger> Actually, you can make it error
  260. # [09:16] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  261. # [09:16] <Ms2ger> --use-strict
  262. # [09:16] * Joins: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com)
  263. # [09:17] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-47-240.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  264. # [09:17] * Joins: richt (~richt@125.152.230.204)
  265. # [09:19] * Quits: Areks|2 (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  266. # [09:21] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  267. # [09:26] * Quits: richt (~richt@125.152.230.204) (Remote host closed the connection)
  268. # [09:27] * Joins: richt (~richt@125.152.230.204)
  269. # [09:29] * Quits: lerc (~quassel@121-74-233-23.telstraclear.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  270. # [09:30] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  271. # [09:30] * Joins: lerc (~quassel@121-74-233-23.telstraclear.net)
  272. # [09:31] * Parts: JibberJim (~opera@host-78-146-51-49.as13285.net)
  273. # [09:32] * Quits: richt (~richt@125.152.230.204) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  274. # [09:32] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
  275. # [09:35] * Joins: richt (~richt@125.152.230.204)
  276. # [09:35] * Joins: ^esc_ (~esc_ape@77.117.246.215.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
  277. # [09:35] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  278. # [09:37] * Quits: ^esc (~esc_ape@178.115.248.179.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  279. # [09:40] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  280. # [09:46] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  281. # [09:52] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  282. # [10:06] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@8.25.154.252) (Quit: othermaciej)
  283. # [10:07] * Joins: richt_ (~richt@125.152.230.204)
  284. # [10:09] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  285. # [10:09] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@p14100-ipngn4101marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  286. # [10:10] * Quits: richt (~richt@125.152.230.204) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  287. # [10:11] * Joins: nonge_ (~nonge@p508299C5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  288. # [10:15] * Quits: nonge (~nonge@p5B3260EE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  289. # [10:16] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@cpc3-brig16-2-0-cust644.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  290. # [10:17] * Quits: lerc (~quassel@121-74-233-23.telstraclear.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  291. # [10:27] * Quits: niloy (~niloy@115.112.64.6) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  292. # [10:27] * Joins: niloy_ (~niloy@115.112.64.6)
  293. # [10:28] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@p14100-ipngn4101marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving.)
  294. # [10:28] * Quits: krit (~krit@p14100-ipngn4101marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving.)
  295. # [10:31] * Joins: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.108.95.89)
  296. # [10:32] * Joins: codeho (~codeho@p57A87B3B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  297. # [10:34] * Joins: benbarnett (~Adium@195.81.245.98)
  298. # [10:35] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  299. # [10:40] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@p14100-ipngn4101marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  300. # [10:40] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  301. # [10:40] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@p14100-ipngn4101marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Client Quit)
  302. # [10:43] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-47-240.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
  303. # [10:43] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  304. # [10:47] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  305. # [10:50] * Quits: birtles (~chatzilla@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204])
  306. # [10:50] * Quits: codeho (~codeho@p57A87B3B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  307. # [10:50] * Joins: codeho (~codeho@p57A87B3B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  308. # [10:50] <codeho> argh
  309. # [10:52] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  310. # [10:52] * Quits: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  311. # [10:53] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  312. # [11:01] <smaug____> annevk: ping
  313. # [11:01] <annevk> smaug____: whoa, why are you awake?
  314. # [11:01] <smaug____> (someone called me around 9am and tried to sell something)
  315. # [11:02] <smaug____> and hey, it is noon
  316. # [11:02] <Ms2ger> smaug____, exactly :)
  317. # [11:02] <smaug____> annevk: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=780953
  318. # [11:02] <smaug____> do you recall if that has been discussed somewhere
  319. # [11:02] <smaug____> whatwg or w3
  320. # [11:03] <annevk> smaug____: hasn't been discussed
  321. # [11:03] <annevk> smaug____: pretty sure anyway, I recommend raising on WHATWG
  322. # [11:04] <annevk> I don't think OS-level changes have had much consideration in general
  323. # [11:05] <darobin> smaug____: this has been discussed in sysapps
  324. # [11:06] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@p14100-ipngn4101marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  325. # [11:06] <smaug____> darobin: well, needs to happen in WhatWG, at least partially
  326. # [11:06] <darobin> smaug____: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21290
  327. # [11:06] * Joins: lerc (~quassel@121-74-233-23.telstraclear.net)
  328. # [11:06] <smaug____> since the change requires Navigator to inherit EventTarget
  329. # [11:06] <smaug____> ah
  330. # [11:06] <smaug____> thanks
  331. # [11:06] <darobin> it needs to happen in the HTML spec for sure I would say
  332. # [11:07] <smaug____> uh, could I change the product
  333. # [11:07] <darobin> who does it, I don't care
  334. # [11:07] <darobin> if you want to put it on the WHATWG's plate, please don't change the product, but instead clone it
  335. # [11:07] <darobin> I reckon it'll happen anyway, it's useful
  336. # [11:09] <smaug____> yeah, it is useful
  337. # [11:09] <smaug____> and simple thing
  338. # [11:09] <darobin> indeed
  339. # [11:10] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/csswg/rev/20c14a9da2c1 gives me 500
  340. # [11:13] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: thanks. however, it gives an error for <!--copyright--> :-(
  341. # [11:13] * Quits: tdsmith (~tim@vp117205.reshsg.uci.edu) (Quit: you do it to yourself)
  342. # [11:13] <Ms2ger> Lovely
  343. # [11:14] * Ms2ger puts that on his todo list
  344. # [11:16] <zcorpan> probably <abbr> shouldn't be an xref element
  345. # [11:16] * Quits: boogyman (~dividingl@pdpc/supporter/professional/boogyman) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  346. # [11:17] <annevk> smaug____: it's already filed against WHATWG, darobin referenced the wrong bug
  347. # [11:17] <annevk> smaug____: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21289
  348. # [11:17] <Ms2ger> Yeah, I think it's based on Bert's xref elements
  349. # [11:18] <zcorpan> i'd like it if <var> wasn't an xref element, too
  350. # [11:18] <annevk> Ms2ger: should move anolis to GitHub
  351. # [11:18] <annevk> yeah, we should not have <var> be xref
  352. # [11:18] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  353. # [11:18] <annevk> or <i>
  354. # [11:18] <zcorpan> why not <i>?
  355. # [11:18] <Ms2ger> annevk, you know I'm not much of a git fan :)
  356. # [11:19] <annevk> zcorpan: <i> is for algorithm flags and they're typically not xreffed
  357. # [11:19] <annevk> Ms2ger: that's a losing proposition
  358. # [11:20] <Ms2ger> Some people like to think so
  359. # [11:21] * darobin didn't reference the wrong bug, just the bug he knew of (which is also the correct one ;)
  360. # [11:21] <Ms2ger> darobin, not in this channel ;)
  361. # [11:22] <darobin> zcorpan: are you still getting 500 on dvcs.w3? it seems to be back up here
  362. # [11:22] <zcorpan> darobin: ah, works now
  363. # [11:23] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  364. # [11:23] * darobin likes <a> being an xref element, strangely
  365. # [11:25] <smaug____> annevk: ah, thanks
  366. # [11:25] <annevk> darobin: instead of <span>?
  367. # [11:25] <annevk> darobin: that might actually be nice
  368. # [11:26] <annevk> Ms2ger: ^^
  369. # [11:26] <Ms2ger> File a bug :)
  370. # [11:26] <darobin> annevk: that's what ReSpec uses
  371. # [11:27] <darobin> it makes more sense I find
  372. # [11:27] <darobin> it's even a correct use of HTML!!!!1
  373. # [11:28] * Quits: richt_ (~richt@125.152.230.204) (Remote host closed the connection)
  374. # [11:28] * Joins: richt (~richt@125.152.230.204)
  375. # [11:29] * Joins: twisted` (uid6794@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-skryuaucjkxnvwwd)
  376. # [11:32] * Joins: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it)
  377. # [11:33] * Quits: richt (~richt@125.152.230.204) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  378. # [11:34] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  379. # [11:35] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@221x249x212x15.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  380. # [11:36] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  381. # [11:40] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: https://bitbucket.org/ms2ger/anolis/pull-request/6/remove-and-from-the-list-of-xref-elements/diff
  382. # [11:40] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  383. # [11:41] <jgraham> darobin: Don't be silly, it's not possible to use HTML correctly.
  384. # [11:41] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  385. # [11:41] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
  386. # [11:42] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-pawbtjsiarnvkdhm)
  387. # [11:42] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-pawbtjsiarnvkdhm) (Changing host)
  388. # [11:42] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
  389. # [11:45] <darobin> jgraham: I was waiting for that one :)
  390. # [11:45] <jgraham> We have a great future as a comedy double act.
  391. # [11:47] <Ms2ger> Dry British wit... And darobin?
  392. # [11:48] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  393. # [11:48] * Joins: richt (~richt@222.233.254.208)
  394. # [11:51] <darobin> Drunk French humour?
  395. # [11:51] <Ms2ger> Sounds about right
  396. # [11:51] * Ms2ger passes darobin a glass of wine
  397. # [11:53] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  398. # [11:54] <zcorpan> should i add <a> in the same PR?
  399. # [11:55] * darobin puts on a béret and camembert sandwich
  400. # [11:55] <zcorpan> i guess <a> would need more work than just adding it to the list to not screw up
  401. # [11:57] <Ms2ger> Sure
  402. # [11:57] <Ms2ger> (Did you run tests?)
  403. # [11:58] <zcorpan> no, i didn't
  404. # [11:58] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@221x249x212x15.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving.)
  405. # [11:58] <zcorpan> FAILED (failures=1)
  406. # [12:00] <zcorpan> FAIL: test_tests/toc-basic.src.html, however that seems unaffected by the change
  407. # [12:07] * Joins: barneybook|2 (~kvirc@220-136-42-76.dynamic.hinet.net)
  408. # [12:08] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@94.137.124.2) (Remote host closed the connection)
  409. # [12:08] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@gateway.creuna.se)
  410. # [12:09] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: I been getting reports of intermittent 500s from dvcs.w3.org but can't see any problem on the server side
  411. # [12:09] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: ok
  412. # [12:09] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-47-240.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  413. # [12:10] <MikeSmith> the only troubleshooting solution that's worked in the past is for use to just restart apache there
  414. # [12:10] <MikeSmith> but in the past the only time we had 500s was when the server was completely wedged and consistently unresponsive
  415. # [12:13] * Quits: kborchers (~kborchers@unaffiliated/kborchers) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  416. # [12:13] * Quits: barneybook (~kvirc@220-136-42-76.dynamic.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  417. # [12:13] * Quits: heycam|away (~cam@wok.mcc.id.au) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  418. # [12:15] * Joins: kborchers (~kborchers@unaffiliated/kborchers)
  419. # [12:19] * Joins: charl_ (~charl@2001:67c:2564:524:92b1:1cff:fe89:ae5)
  420. # [12:28] * Joins: oneforall2 (~guru@199.126.214.144)
  421. # [12:31] * Joins: joesavage (56174f3f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.23.79.63)
  422. # [12:31] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  423. # [12:36] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  424. # [12:39] <joesavage> Unsure if this is the right place to ask, but an element on my page (an "a" element with an "img" inside) simply isn't being focused in the Tab cycle, how can I fix this? I've tried adding a "tabindex" value, but it doesn't work, instead the textbox just next to it in the markup always gets focused first, and then everything else on the page after that.
  425. # [12:40] <darobin> joesavage: perhaps not the best forum for such questions, but does your <a> have an href with something useful in it?
  426. # [12:40] <darobin> if not, it's not focusable
  427. # [12:41] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  428. # [12:42] <joesavage> It's just linking to "/", but I've tried a bunch of other values in my troubleshooting process, so I guess it's not this.
  429. # [12:43] <joesavage> Interestingly, if I add some text after the image (i.e. <a href="/"><img src="whatever"/>test</a>), then it focuses first.
  430. # [12:45] <joesavage> I also notice that taking the "float: left;" away from it in the CSS makes it focus correctly too. Very odd.
  431. # [12:45] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
  432. # [12:47] * Joins: tobie (~tobielang@73-118.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch)
  433. # [12:49] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  434. # [12:49] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  435. # [12:51] * webben_ is now known as webben
  436. # [12:55] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@bl7-52-206.dsl.telepac.pt)
  437. # [12:56] * Quits: joesavage (56174f3f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.23.79.63) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  438. # [13:06] * Joins: dekiss (~dekiss@77.28.7.13)
  439. # [13:06] * Joins: josemanuel (~josemanue@162.208.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
  440. # [13:20] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  441. # [13:20] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  442. # [13:20] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@212.58.232.179)
  443. # [13:24] * Quits: JibberJim (~opera@212.58.232.179) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  444. # [13:26] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@212.58.232.179)
  445. # [13:29] * Quits: tobie (~tobielang@73-118.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch) (Quit: tobie)
  446. # [13:29] * Joins: tobie (~tobielang@73-118.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch)
  447. # [13:30] * Quits: JibberJim (~opera@212.58.232.179) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  448. # [13:32] * Joins: yorick (~yorick@oftn/member/yorick)
  449. # [13:32] * Joins: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229)
  450. # [13:36] * Quits: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  451. # [13:36] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  452. # [13:41] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  453. # [13:42] * Quits: kborchers (~kborchers@unaffiliated/kborchers) (Excess Flood)
  454. # [13:43] * Joins: kborchers (~kborchers@unaffiliated/kborchers)
  455. # [13:50] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  456. # [13:55] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  457. # [14:01] <annevk> fwiw: http://annevankesteren.nl/2013/06/london-tag (not comprehensive)
  458. # [14:03] * Joins: Martin1982 (~Martin198@cable-175-208.zeelandnet.nl)
  459. # [14:03] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@212.58.232.179)
  460. # [14:05] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  461. # [14:06] <jgraham> annevk: "Getting there from where we are today is though"
  462. # [14:06] <Ms2ger> Sounds right
  463. # [14:07] <jgraham> Also, I'm not sure why the "champions" model is a good thing
  464. # [14:08] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  465. # [14:08] <annevk> jgraham: not sure what you meant by quoting that?
  466. # [14:08] <Ms2ger> tough?
  467. # [14:08] * Quits: JibberJim (~opera@212.58.232.179) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  468. # [14:09] <jgraham> You either misspelt or just missed a word
  469. # [14:09] <annevk> ooh
  470. # [14:09] <Ms2ger> Damn English
  471. # [14:10] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@212.58.232.179)
  472. # [14:10] <annevk> jgraham: thanks
  473. # [14:10] <annevk> jgraham: not sure if champions is good, but is there anything else that scales?
  474. # [14:14] <tobie> annevk: why a separate GitHub org for W3C tag?
  475. # [14:14] * Quits: JibberJim (~opera@212.58.232.179) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  476. # [14:15] <Ms2ger> See discussion in this channel a few days ago
  477. # [14:17] <annevk> tobie: easier to setup repos
  478. # [14:17] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  479. # [14:17] * Quits: tyoshino_ (~tyoshino@2401:fa00:4:1004:d4a1:3c2d:c787:8958) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  480. # [14:17] <tobie> annevk: how so?
  481. # [14:18] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  482. # [14:18] <tobie> I mean, if TAG members can't get admin rights on gh.com/w3c...
  483. # [14:18] <tobie> we'd need to fix that. :)
  484. # [14:19] <tobie> annevk: feels like a missed opportunity for visibility and transparency.
  485. # [14:20] * darobin thinks it doesn't make that much difference
  486. # [14:20] <annevk> that sounds very opaque
  487. # [14:21] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  488. # [14:21] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  489. # [14:22] * Quits: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.108.95.89) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  490. # [14:26] * Joins: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229)
  491. # [14:28] * Joins: tj_vantoll (~Adium@2607:fad0:32:a03:5c3:ff38:e8fe:9c7e)
  492. # [14:37] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  493. # [14:37] <tobie> annevk: what does?
  494. # [14:38] * Quits: tj_vantoll (~Adium@2607:fad0:32:a03:5c3:ff38:e8fe:9c7e) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  495. # [14:40] * Joins: tj_vantoll (~Adium@2607:fad0:32:a03:5c3:ff38:e8fe:9c7e)
  496. # [14:41] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@50-0-136-58.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  497. # [14:47] * Joins: decotii (~decotii@static-98-116-12-109.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
  498. # [14:49] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-47-240.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
  499. # [14:51] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@212.58.232.179)
  500. # [14:51] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  501. # [14:53] * Joins: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.104.70.114)
  502. # [14:56] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com)
  503. # [14:56] * Quits: JibberJim (~opera@212.58.232.179) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  504. # [14:56] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  505. # [14:57] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@221x249x212x15.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  506. # [15:01] * Quits: espadrine (~ttyl@85-218-11-50.dclient.lsne.ch) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  507. # [15:03] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@60.32.72.88)
  508. # [15:06] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@212.58.232.179)
  509. # [15:06] * Quits: yorick (~yorick@oftn/member/yorick) (Remote host closed the connection)
  510. # [15:07] * Joins: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com)
  511. # [15:10] * Quits: JibberJim (~opera@212.58.232.179) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  512. # [15:17] * Joins: TallTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  513. # [15:18] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@212.58.232.179)
  514. # [15:21] * Joins: eric_carlson (~eric@17.212.152.104)
  515. # [15:22] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  516. # [15:23] * Quits: JibberJim (~opera@212.58.232.179) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  517. # [15:24] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@212.58.232.179)
  518. # [15:25] * Joins: heycam|away (~cam@wok.mcc.id.au)
  519. # [15:27] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  520. # [15:29] * Quits: JibberJim (~opera@212.58.232.179) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  521. # [15:40] * Joins: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@114-24-48-243.dynamic.hinet.net)
  522. # [15:42] <zewt> Ms2ger: not explicitly saying what to do with exceptions is terribly not saying what to do--if you don't know exactly which steps in an algorithm might throw an exception, you can't see all of the code paths
  523. # [15:43] <zewt> and if the spec author doesn't know all of those places, that's error prone as well
  524. # [15:44] * Joins: myakura (~myakura@FL1-125-197-195-164.tky.mesh.ad.jp)
  525. # [15:44] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@61.202.242.194)
  526. # [15:45] * Joins: benschwarz (uid2121@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hqphghpuwwsvjaeq)
  527. # [15:46] * Joins: rubatdub (~khalil@213.188.180.185)
  528. # [15:48] * Joins: espadrine (~ttyl@tsf-444-wpa-0-146.epfl.ch)
  529. # [15:50] * Quits: reyre (~rick@142.204.133.24) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  530. # [15:50] * Joins: reyre (~rick@142.204.133.24)
  531. # [15:50] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  532. # [15:51] * Joins: Robbert_ (~robbert@212.238.236.229)
  533. # [15:53] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  534. # [15:53] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  535. # [15:53] * Joins: jryans (~jryans@office.massrel.com)
  536. # [15:54] * Quits: Robbert_ (~robbert@212.238.236.229) (Remote host closed the connection)
  537. # [15:55] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Client Quit)
  538. # [15:57] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  539. # [16:03] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.98)
  540. # [16:04] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  541. # [16:14] <annevk> tobie: what you said about the TAG not sharing a GitHub account
  542. # [16:15] <tobie> what's opaque about that?
  543. # [16:17] <annevk> it seems important our work is on GitHub, it doesn't matter much where afaict
  544. # [16:17] * Quits: reybango (uid11414@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cdkhtuispctduzeg) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  545. # [16:17] * Joins: reybango (uid11414@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mvfhdumywblwtrrs)
  546. # [16:18] <annevk> and in fact, for people interested in what the TAG works on, a single page seems a lot clearer
  547. # [16:18] <jgraham> No one cares about that though
  548. # [16:19] <jgraham> Or no one should
  549. # [16:19] <jgraham> They should care about "are good web technologies being standardised and shipped"
  550. # [16:20] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  551. # [16:20] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@60.32.72.88) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  552. # [16:21] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  553. # [16:21] <jgraham> (a similar argument could be made that the CSS WG needs it own repos, and the HTML WG and the WebApps WG, and the Web Performance working group and…)
  554. # [16:21] <jgraham> s/repos/account/
  555. # [16:23] <annevk> I think it helps to have some granularity so you know who is accountable
  556. # [16:23] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  557. # [16:23] <annevk> That we have a gazillion groups doing APIs these days is indeed not helping
  558. # [16:24] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@60.32.72.88)
  559. # [16:24] <gsnedders> But organizations don't do work; individuals do.
  560. # [16:24] <jgraham> I don't understand your argument
  561. # [16:25] <jgraham> Even if we only had HTML/WebApps/CSS it would still be strictly worse to split up all their stuff
  562. # [16:25] <jgraham> If you want namespacing that is possible by naming the repos groupname-whatever
  563. # [16:25] * gsnedders doesn't really know what's going on, being on holiday and all
  564. # [16:26] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199)
  565. # [16:28] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  566. # [16:28] <jgraham> (c.f. Conway's Law)
  567. # [16:29] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@60.32.72.88) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  568. # [16:33] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@212.58.232.179)
  569. # [16:34] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl7-52-206.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  570. # [16:37] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@124-168-10-95.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  571. # [16:38] * Quits: JibberJim (~opera@212.58.232.179) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  572. # [16:38] * Quits: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@108.161.20.199) (Remote host closed the connection)
  573. # [16:41] * heycam|away is now known as heycam|away|away
  574. # [16:42] <annevk> jgraham: I see it more as being about size
  575. # [16:42] <annevk> jgraham: if it's too large it becomes hard to follow
  576. # [16:43] <annevk> jgraham: e.g. that's why some specs have their own twitter account, or why we have separate specs to begin with
  577. # [16:43] <annevk> jgraham: even though they're all representing the same platform
  578. # [16:43] <darobin> I thought Conway's law was if you arrange black squares on a grid in a special way, you get spaceships
  579. # [16:44] <annevk> want
  580. # [16:45] <SimonSapin> sounds accurate
  581. # [16:45] <Ms2ger> Fun fact: the game of life is Turing-complete
  582. # [16:45] * Ms2ger found that part of that textbook more interesting than the part about RDF
  583. # [16:46] <jgraham> Fun fact: So is W3C Process
  584. # [16:47] <jgraham> Dammit I think I just nerd-sniped myself. Now I wonder if you can abuse W3C Process to perform computations
  585. # [16:47] <Philip`> Implementing a Turing machine in Life is unfortunately slightly less practical than implementing one in C++ templates
  586. # [16:47] * Joins: izhak (~izhak@31.47.117.180)
  587. # [16:47] <darobin> jgraham: ROFL
  588. # [16:48] <darobin> well, we have loops for sure
  589. # [16:48] <darobin> I don't think you need the full process, Rec track might be T-complete
  590. # [16:48] * darobin wonders what textbook Ms2ger had that featured both the GoL and RDF
  591. # [16:49] <darobin> someone must've been smoking something pretty damn good at the textbook factory
  592. # [16:49] * Quits: izhak (~izhak@31.47.117.180) (Remote host closed the connection)
  593. # [16:49] <Ms2ger> darobin, Rich's Automata, Computability and Complexity
  594. # [16:50] <Ms2ger> It also featured claims that HTML is a regular language
  595. # [16:50] * Quits: mven (~mven@ip68-224-15-53.lv.lv.cox.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  596. # [16:50] * will_i_w_ is now known as will_i_was
  597. # [16:50] <darobin> I guess it was more than just smoking then
  598. # [16:51] <darobin> mmm, that book ain't cheap, too
  599. # [16:51] <Ms2ger> Indeed it isn't
  600. # [16:54] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  601. # [16:54] <darobin> I reckon that if you treat drafts as storage space then given LC is a conditional loop you have Turing-completeness
  602. # [16:56] <gsnedders> Unforunately it doesn't define the computation engine itself, merely everything else.
  603. # [16:57] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@cpc3-brig16-2-0-cust644.3-3.cable.virginmedia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  604. # [16:57] <darobin> :)
  605. # [16:58] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  606. # [16:59] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@221x249x212x15.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving.)
  607. # [17:00] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  608. # [17:04] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@61.202.242.194) (Quit: Leaving.)
  609. # [17:05] * Joins: Robbert_ (~robbert@2001:980:9368:1:c051:24a6:2366:62b)
  610. # [17:06] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@212.58.232.179)
  611. # [17:09] * Quits: Robbert_ (~robbert@2001:980:9368:1:c051:24a6:2366:62b) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  612. # [17:09] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@bl7-52-206.dsl.telepac.pt)
  613. # [17:11] * Quits: JibberJim (~opera@212.58.232.179) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  614. # [17:17] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  615. # [17:22] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  616. # [17:24] * Quits: charl_ (~charl@2001:67c:2564:524:92b1:1cff:fe89:ae5) (Quit: leaving)
  617. # [17:27] * Quits: nunnun (~hiro@2001:200:1c0:3624:20c:29ff:fe02:11c8) (Quit: Bye)
  618. # [17:28] * Joins: nunnun (~hiro@2001:200:1c0:3624:20c:29ff:fe02:11c8)
  619. # [17:29] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  620. # [17:32] * Joins: linclark (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
  621. # [17:35] * Quits: espadrine (~ttyl@tsf-444-wpa-0-146.epfl.ch) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  622. # [17:38] * Quits: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229) (Remote host closed the connection)
  623. # [17:39] * Joins: sgalineau (~sylvaing@sjfw1-a.adobe.com)
  624. # [17:42] * Quits: Martin1982 (~Martin198@cable-175-208.zeelandnet.nl) (Quit: Gone snoring)
  625. # [17:43] * Quits: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com) (Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com ))
  626. # [17:44] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  627. # [17:45] * Joins: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com)
  628. # [17:46] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@109.89.68.161)
  629. # [17:47] * Quits: richt (~richt@222.233.254.208) (Remote host closed the connection)
  630. # [17:47] * Joins: richt (~richt@222.233.254.208)
  631. # [17:48] * Quits: Adawerk (~ada@169.241.49.57) (Quit: Leaving)
  632. # [17:51] * Joins: Adawerk (~ada@169.241.49.57)
  633. # [17:52] * Quits: richt (~richt@222.233.254.208) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  634. # [17:58] * Joins: mven (~mven@169.241.49.238)
  635. # [18:01] * Joins: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
  636. # [18:03] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@170.238-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  637. # [18:11] * Quits: myakura (~myakura@FL1-125-197-195-164.tky.mesh.ad.jp) (Remote host closed the connection)
  638. # [18:11] * Joins: myakura (~myakura@FL1-125-197-195-164.tky.mesh.ad.jp)
  639. # [18:15] * Quits: myakura (~myakura@FL1-125-197-195-164.tky.mesh.ad.jp) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  640. # [18:16] * Joins: frozenice (~frozenice@unaffiliated/fr0zenice)
  641. # [18:16] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@vpnk085.ugent.be)
  642. # [18:18] * Joins: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  643. # [18:18] * Quits: mven (~mven@169.241.49.238) (Remote host closed the connection)
  644. # [18:21] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  645. # [18:25] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  646. # [18:26] * Joins: alecf (alecf@nat/google/x-zxodswxifdxfdazw)
  647. # [18:27] * Joins: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-mqpqbkzczdlbpqag)
  648. # [18:29] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Remote host closed the connection)
  649. # [18:31] * Joins: AladinBouzerd_ (~aladinbou@41.104.70.114)
  650. # [18:34] * Quits: AladinBouzerd (~aladinbou@41.104.70.114) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  651. # [18:35] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@17.212.154.114)
  652. # [18:36] <jgraham> So, just how many testing-related IRC channels does W3C need?
  653. # [18:37] <Ms2ger> 42
  654. # [18:38] <jgraham> That would explain a lot
  655. # [18:39] * paul_irish_ is now known as paul_irish
  656. # [18:39] <tobie> jgraham: #htmlt, #test, #testing what else?
  657. # [18:44] * Joins: espadrine (~ttyl@85-218-11-50.dclient.lsne.ch)
  658. # [18:44] * Parts: adactio (~adactio@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
  659. # [18:46] * fishd__ is now known as fishd
  660. # [18:46] * Joins: mattgifford (~mattgiffo@70.102.199.158)
  661. # [18:47] * Quits: codeho (~codeho@p57A87B3B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: codeho)
  662. # [18:49] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@gateway.creuna.se) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  663. # [18:50] <jgraham> tobie: I have no idea. Until today I didn't know that #test existed.
  664. # [18:50] <MikeSmith> me neither
  665. # [18:50] <MikeSmith> what's #test for?
  666. # [18:50] <tobie> jgraham: with the move to GitHub, it feels like some reconciling would be useful.
  667. # [18:52] <tobie> jgraham: including mailing lists
  668. # [18:52] <tobie> tracking that here:
  669. # [18:52] <tobie> https://github.com/w3c/ttwf-docs/issues/7
  670. # [18:52] <tobie> MikeSmith: used by the testing tf
  671. # [18:53] <MikeSmith> ok
  672. # [18:53] <Ms2ger> #css-test
  673. # [18:54] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Remote host closed the connection)
  674. # [18:55] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  675. # [18:56] * Quits: espadrine (~ttyl@85-218-11-50.dclient.lsne.ch) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  676. # [18:57] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  677. # [18:59] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.5.84)
  678. # [18:59] <tobie> Ms2ger: ty
  679. # [18:59] <Ms2ger> Np
  680. # [19:01] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  681. # [19:02] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.5.84) (Client Quit)
  682. # [19:04] * Joins: mven (~mven@169.241.49.238)
  683. # [19:04] * Joins: Masklinn (~textual@213.219.188.212.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net)
  684. # [19:05] * Quits: teamcoltra (~frextual@opennic/teamcoltra) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  685. # [19:06] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  686. # [19:07] * Joins: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron)
  687. # [19:08] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Remote host closed the connection)
  688. # [19:08] * Quits: mitemitreski (~mitemitre@212.120.17.179) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  689. # [19:11] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  690. # [19:11] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  691. # [19:11] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  692. # [19:12] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  693. # [19:13] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  694. # [19:16] * Quits: tj_vantoll (~Adium@2607:fad0:32:a03:5c3:ff38:e8fe:9c7e) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  695. # [19:19] * Quits: benbarnett (~Adium@195.81.245.98) (Quit: Leaving.)
  696. # [19:19] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  697. # [19:19] * Joins: espadrine (~ttyl@85-218-11-50.dclient.lsne.ch)
  698. # [19:19] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@vpnk085.ugent.be) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  699. # [19:22] * Joins: tj_vantoll (~Adium@69.167.130.9)
  700. # [19:22] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@170.238-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
  701. # [19:24] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  702. # [19:26] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.5.84)
  703. # [19:34] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@host-78-146-51-49.as13285.net)
  704. # [19:37] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.5.84) (Quit: weinig)
  705. # [19:38] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  706. # [19:38] * Joins: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229)
  707. # [19:40] * pdr|afk is now known as pdr
  708. # [19:42] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@109-170-173-195.xdsl.murphx.net)
  709. # [19:43] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  710. # [19:43] * Quits: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  711. # [19:48] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@108-75-75-178.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  712. # [19:51] * Joins: myakura (~myakura@FL1-125-197-195-164.tky.mesh.ad.jp)
  713. # [19:52] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@109-170-173-195.xdsl.murphx.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  714. # [19:52] * Quits: linclark (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Quit: linclark)
  715. # [19:55] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  716. # [19:56] * Joins: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  717. # [19:56] * Quits: mven (~mven@169.241.49.238) (Remote host closed the connection)
  718. # [19:56] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@gateway.creuna.se)
  719. # [19:57] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.5.84)
  720. # [19:59] * Joins: ripples (~ripples@41-132-136-191.dsl.mweb.co.za)
  721. # [20:00] * Joins: mven (~mven@169.241.49.238)
  722. # [20:00] * Quits: mven (~mven@169.241.49.238) (Remote host closed the connection)
  723. # [20:01] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@gateway.creuna.se) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  724. # [20:02] * Quits: oneforall2 (~guru@199.126.214.144) (Read error: No route to host)
  725. # [20:05] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  726. # [20:09] * Quits: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron) (Remote host closed the connection)
  727. # [20:18] * Quits: myakura (~myakura@FL1-125-197-195-164.tky.mesh.ad.jp) (Remote host closed the connection)
  728. # [20:18] * Joins: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron)
  729. # [20:20] <jgraham> tobie: Anyway I would happily close them all apart from #testing
  730. # [20:20] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.5.84) (Quit: weinig)
  731. # [20:20] <jgraham> Mind you, I wouldn't spin up a bunch of closed membership task forces either
  732. # [20:25] * Quits: decotii (~decotii@static-98-116-12-109.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  733. # [20:26] * Joins: decotii (~decotii@static-98-116-12-109.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
  734. # [20:26] <tobie> jgraham: neither would I, but corps are touchy when it comes to $$$.
  735. # [20:32] * Joins: linclark (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
  736. # [20:33] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-197-111.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  737. # [20:35] <dekiss> how is html language made? who is making it? html editors?
  738. # [20:35] <dekiss> I have hard time understanding it, how that mailing lists work etc.
  739. # [20:39] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  740. # [20:39] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@mc00536d0.tmodns.net)
  741. # [20:40] <jgraham> Unrelatedly, is there some reason that people are pushing everything to happen at "end of microtask" rather than just using normal tasks?
  742. # [20:41] <jgraham> (for small values of "everything" that includes a bunch of new stuff)
  743. # [20:44] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  744. # [20:45] * Joins: RobbertAtWork (~robbertat@212.238.236.229)
  745. # [20:50] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  746. # [20:56] <Ms2ger> So we're at the point where we're doing d3e conf calls without anything to talk about again?
  747. # [20:57] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@mc00536d0.tmodns.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  748. # [20:58] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  749. # [21:01] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  750. # [21:03] <jgraham> Someone else is doing D3E calls
  751. # [21:06] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net)
  752. # [21:08] * Joins: krawchyk (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251)
  753. # [21:08] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  754. # [21:08] * Quits: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  755. # [21:09] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net)
  756. # [21:14] * Joins: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@vpn-na-west.corp.salesforce.com)
  757. # [21:15] <jgraham> Also, "we were forced to do bad thing $X because of the $$$" seems to be the standard W3C excuse at the moment
  758. # [21:19] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@221x249x212x15.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  759. # [21:19] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@109-170-173-195.xdsl.murphx.net)
  760. # [21:21] <jarek> is there any chance that Goolge will be trying to standardise DOM improvements made in Dart?
  761. # [21:22] <jarek> I mean things like query() or events as streams
  762. # [21:22] <Ms2ger> The idea behind those was that there's no legacy dart content, so breaking stuff is free, right?
  763. # [21:22] <Ms2ger> Breaking stuff on the actual web is far from free
  764. # [21:24] <jarek> I'm not aware of Dart internals, but it looks like most of the improvements are implemented as wrappers on top of standard DOM
  765. # [21:24] <jarek> http://www.dartlang.org/articles/improving-the-dom/
  766. # [21:25] <tantek> jgraham - w3cexcuses.tumblr.com ?
  767. # [21:26] <jgraham> jarek: Nor am I, but I doubt they want to reimplement the C++ bits
  768. # [21:27] <jgraham> I mean, the DOM still has to exist. So having something fundamentally different exposed to Dart and JS seems hard
  769. # [21:28] <jarek> why NodeList and DOMTokenList don't inherit from Array.prototype? Does the spec prohibit this explicitly?
  770. # [21:28] <Ms2ger> NodeList explicitly inherits from Array.prototype in the spec
  771. # [21:28] <Ms2ger> We're waiting on Blink to try implementing it
  772. # [21:28] <Ms2ger> Last time we tried, a lot of Google sites broke
  773. # [21:30] <Ms2ger> And having wrappers on top of the DOM only increases the API surface for little gain, making the platform harder to learn and to maintain
  774. # [21:30] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Wait, what? Why does the spec say something that's known not to work?
  775. # [21:31] <annevk> TabAtkins: yo, if you're around, if you could reply to the www-dom thread with MM that'd be grand
  776. # [21:31] <Ms2ger> jgraham, because Google could maybe have fixed its site
  777. # [21:31] <Ms2ger> s
  778. # [21:31] <jgraham> It should at best say Note: It has been suggested that (foo). Experiments with (foo) showed a significant web compat impact.
  779. # [21:31] <jgraham> Ms2ger: If it broke Google sites it seems highly likely it also broke other sites
  780. # [21:32] <Ms2ger> Perhaps
  781. # [21:32] <Ms2ger> I haven't looked into it closely
  782. # [21:32] <jgraham> and expecting Google to spend resources fixing its sites to make some blink people happy seems unreasonably optimistic
  783. # [21:33] <jgraham> In any case I don't think the spec should be left in a state where it requires knwon-broken behaviour
  784. # [21:33] <jgraham> *known
  785. # [21:35] * Quits: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  786. # [21:35] * Quits: kinetik_ (~kinetik@121.99.38.239) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  787. # [21:36] * Joins: kinetik (~kinetik@121.99.38.239)
  788. # [21:37] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Quit: jarek)
  789. # [21:42] * Joins: krit (~krit@221x249x212x15.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  790. # [21:43] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com)
  791. # [21:43] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-47-240.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  792. # [21:44] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-47-240.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
  793. # [21:44] <Ms2ger> jgraham, notice added
  794. # [21:46] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@109-170-173-195.xdsl.murphx.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  795. # [21:46] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Thanks
  796. # [21:51] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl7-52-206.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  797. # [21:53] * Quits: JibberJim (~opera@host-78-146-51-49.as13285.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  798. # [21:54] * Quits: ripples (~ripples@41-132-136-191.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  799. # [21:55] * Joins: miketaylr2000 (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com)
  800. # [21:57] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com) (Disconnected by services)
  801. # [21:57] * miketaylr2000 is now known as miketaylr
  802. # [22:03] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  803. # [22:04] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net)
  804. # [22:06] * Joins: deuley (~deuley@50.56.228.48)
  805. # [22:09] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  806. # Session Close: Mon Jun 03 22:10:03 2013
  807. #
  808. # Session Start: Mon Jun 03 22:10:03 2013
  809. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  810. # [22:10] * Disconnected
  811. # [22:12] * Attempting to rejoin channel #whatwg
  812. # [22:12] * Rejoined channel #whatwg
  813. # [22:12] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ & http://logbot.glob.com.au/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  814. # [22:12] * Set by smaug____!~chatzilla@GGZYYCCCXVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi on Wed Mar 21 17:14:24
  815. # [22:13] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@124-168-10-95.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  816. # [22:14] * Quits: krijnh (~krijnhoet@ip4da4a84d.direct-adsl.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  817. # [22:14] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  818. # [22:17] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  819. # [22:22] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@170.238-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Quit: nn)
  820. # [22:26] * Quits: Adawerk (~ada@169.241.49.57) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  821. # [22:33] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1.adobe.com) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  822. # [22:35] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.104.255)
  823. # [22:39] * Joins: SteveF_ (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  824. # [22:39] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@8.25.154.252)
  825. # [22:39] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@8.25.154.252) (Client Quit)
  826. # [22:40] <GPHemsley> Hixie: Ah, one catch you forgot to mention about keeping the whole spec open: I have to reload it all when changes are made! ;)
  827. # [22:41] * Quits: tj_vantoll (~Adium@69.167.130.9) (Quit: Leaving.)
  828. # [22:41] * Quits: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  829. # [22:43] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@nat/mozilla/x-qmfmixyffcfmgyrv)
  830. # [22:46] * Joins: Martin1982 (~Martin198@541A8D15.cm-5-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  831. # [22:46] * Quits: krawchyk (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251) (Remote host closed the connection)
  832. # [22:58] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net) (Quit: tantek)
  833. # [23:03] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net)
  834. # [23:04] * Quits: yodasw16 (~yodasw16@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com) (Quit: yodasw16)
  835. # [23:08] * Joins: Robbert_ (~robbert@212.238.236.229)
  836. # [23:08] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  837. # [23:09] * Quits: frozenice (~frozenice@unaffiliated/fr0zenice) (Remote host closed the connection)
  838. # [23:10] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  839. # [23:11] * Joins: dkiss (~dekiss@77.29.143.34)
  840. # [23:11] * Quits: dekiss (~dekiss@77.28.7.13) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  841. # [23:14] * Joins: JibberJim (~opera@host-78-146-51-49.as13285.net)
  842. # [23:14] * Quits: TallTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  843. # [23:15] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  844. # [23:18] * Quits: yoav (~yoav@sdo26-1-78-245-148-181.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  845. # [23:19] * Joins: vcarbune (~vcarbune@84-74-140-149.dclient.hispeed.ch)
  846. # [23:22] * Quits: krit (~krit@221x249x212x15.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving.)
  847. # [23:23] * Joins: krit (~krit@221x249x212x15.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  848. # [23:26] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  849. # [23:29] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@8.25.197.25)
  850. # [23:30] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.104.255) (Quit: weinig)
  851. # [23:34] * Quits: rubatdub (~khalil@213.188.180.185) (Quit: Quitte)
  852. # [23:34] * Quits: SteveF_ (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  853. # [23:36] * Joins: boogyman (~dividingl@pdpc/supporter/professional/boogyman)
  854. # [23:37] * Quits: kinetik (~kinetik@121.99.38.239) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  855. # [23:37] * Joins: kinetik (~kinetik@121.99.38.239)
  856. # [23:38] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net) (Quit: tantek)
  857. # [23:40] * Quits: Masklinn (~textual@213.219.188.212.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net)
  858. # [23:41] * Joins: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp)
  859. # [23:41] * Quits: kochi_home (~kochi_hom@FL1-118-109-238-83.kng.mesh.ad.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  860. # [23:41] * Quits: Jarrod_ (~Jarrod_@pdpc/supporter/active/jarrod) (Quit: Leaving...)
  861. # [23:42] * Joins: Jarrod_ (~Jarrod_@pdpc/supporter/active/jarrod)
  862. # [23:42] * dkiss is now known as dekiss
  863. # [23:44] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@2.25.62.115)
  864. # [23:46] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net)
  865. # [23:48] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net) (Client Quit)
  866. # [23:51] * Quits: Robbert_ (~robbert@212.238.236.229) (Remote host closed the connection)
  867. # [23:55] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
  868. # [23:56] * Quits: zdobersek (~zdobersek@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
  869. # Session Close: Tue Jun 04 00:00:00 2013

The end :)