/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-06-22 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Jun 22 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:01] <TabAtkins> Two pages in an origin can use a multicast bouncer to coordinate with each other and agree on a singlecast channel name to use for transfer communication.
  4. # [00:01] <TabAtkins> about:bouncer and about:transferer?
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  7. # [00:03] <TabAtkins> Reusing SharedWorker literally might not be the best idea - it may still be better to provide dedicated constructors - but I think explaining them in terms of browser-provided shared workers is pretty interesting.
  8. # [00:04] <TabAtkins> If we did use dedicated constructors, I like your BroadcastChannel name, and we can augment it with a TransferChannel name for the singlecast variant.
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  19. # [00:19] <abarth> i'd have to think about how the transfer channel would handle error cases
  20. # [00:20] <abarth> you might want something that just hands off a message port to the parties
  21. # [00:20] <abarth> e.g., MessageChannel
  22. # [00:21] <abarth> you could imagine giving one of the message ports to the broadcast channel
  23. # [00:21] <abarth> and the first one to grab it wins
  24. # [00:24] <TabAtkins> Hmm, yeah, that's just as correct I guess.
  25. # [00:25] <TabAtkins> You'd need some way to explicitly open the port, or something like that.
  26. # [00:25] <TabAtkins> First to attach an onMessage handler?
  27. # [00:25] <abarth> there's a start() function
  28. # [00:26] <abarth> so, you could claim it by doing that
  29. # [00:26] <TabAtkins> Ah, indeed there is.
  30. # [00:26] <TabAtkins> I'd missed that.
  31. # [00:27] <TabAtkins> So that's just a matter of adding a constructor to MessagePort, which is nice and elegant.
  32. # [00:27] <TabAtkins> Well, kinda.
  33. # [00:27] <TabAtkins> You need to get a pair of them.
  34. # [00:28] <abarth> that's what MessageChannel does for you
  35. # [00:28] <TabAtkins> So yeah, MessageChannel.
  36. # [00:28] <abarth> it has port1 and port2
  37. # [00:28] <TabAtkins> Oh, durp, I should really read this whole Workers chapter again.
  38. # [00:28] <abarth> the missing piece is a way to hand one of the ports to the remote document
  39. # [00:28] <abarth> without a script connection
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  41. # [00:28] <abarth> my first draft went after that problem directly
  42. # [00:29] <abarth> but letting you trigger a "connect" event on the remote document
  43. # [00:29] <abarth> with the message port
  44. # [00:29] <TabAtkins> Yeah, and the BroadcastChannel works well. I like it's elegance - the way it can be described as a browser-defined "bouncer" SharedWorker.
  45. # [00:29] <abarth> but that felt a bit like electing a leader
  46. # [00:29] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
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  48. # [00:29] <abarth> since there's a distinguished instance that gets the connect event
  49. # [00:29] <abarth> and if you're going to elect a leader, you probably should be using a shared worker
  50. # [00:29] <abarth> so the leader can outlive all the followers
  51. # [00:30] <abarth> BroadcastChannel is more symmetric
  52. # [00:30] <TabAtkins> Yup.
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  59. # [00:40] <TabAtkins> abarth: Problem with just transferring the port is that it gets neutered as it is transferred. You can't have the broadcast channel send it to multiple other senders.
  60. # [00:40] <abarth> Maybe BroadcastChannel could allow transferrable if there's only one listener?
  61. # [00:40] * pdr|uk|afk is now known as pdr|uk
  62. # [00:41] <abarth> so, you could agree with someone what channel name to use
  63. # [00:41] <abarth> and then hop onto that channel
  64. # [00:42] <abarth> e.g., one channel is used for signaling and the other is used for data
  65. # [00:42] <TabAtkins> That does mean that it's possible to be DOSed by something else on your origin, but that's probably a sufficiently okay problem - you can already have lots of bad things happen from your own origin.
  66. # [00:42] <abarth> if they want to DOS you, they can just make a sync XHR :)
  67. # [00:42] <abarth> they don't even have to be in your origin
  68. # [00:42] <TabAtkins> I meant that something else on your origin, which knows your signaling channel, can listen in and connect to any ports you attempt to use for data.
  69. # [00:43] <TabAtkins> But they're already within your origin, so you're screwed.
  70. # [00:44] <TabAtkins> And I don't see how that's possible to solve without a direct connection anyway. You *must* use a spoofable token to identify the channel, precisely so that the other side can spoof it.
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  74. # [00:58] <abarth> TabAtkins: you could make up a nonce on the server
  75. # [00:58] <abarth> and send it to the two pages
  76. # [00:58] <abarth> and they could use it as the channel name
  77. # [00:59] <TabAtkins> Sure, there are ways to avoid it if you bring in a trusted third party.
  78. # [00:59] <TabAtkins> Anyway, I dont' think it's a real concern.
  79. # [00:59] <TabAtkins> If an attacker is inside your origin, you're already screwed.
  80. # [00:59] <abarth> I wonder if NamedChannel would be a better name
  81. # [00:59] <TabAtkins> Hm, maybe.
  82. # [00:59] <abarth> you might even subclass MessageChannel
  83. # [01:00] <abarth> and the ports could null themselves out as they were grabbed
  84. # [01:01] <abarth> i guess that doesn't work as well for the broadcast case
  85. # [01:01] <abarth> and there's a race condition
  86. # [01:01] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
  87. # [01:02] <TabAtkins> You'd have to agree on which port each should take.
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  167. # [05:35] <zewt> what the
  168. # [05:35] <zewt> http://www.gamefaqs.com/snes/588331-final-fantasy-v/faqs/30040 <- did somebody write a spec for ff5 combat
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  268. # [14:01] * Goboka slaps [[zzz]] around a bit with a large trout
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  270. # [14:04] <gallant> where can I see complete Unicode HTML entities list?
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  278. # [14:49] <Redface> http://www.htmlentities.com/html/entities/
  279. # [14:50] <Redface> check out this site to see html entities. it will be helpful :)
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  414. # [23:46] <gallant> is there another way to make img src local file except with file api?
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  416. # [23:54] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  417. # [23:58] * Quits: baku (~baku@2-236-39-253.ip231.fastwebnet.it) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  418. # Session Close: Sun Jun 23 00:00:00 2013

The end :)