/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-07-12 / end

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  5. # [00:01] <annevk> I hope Kyle doesn't expect anyone to actually read those emails o_O
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  17. # [00:21] <annevk> heycam|away: So the way you can do it is by having the [Global] annotation and then other specs can say [Expose=GlobalName]
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  19. # [00:22] <annevk> heycam|away: plus maybe some shortcut so they two Worker globals can also have a shared Global name
  20. # [00:22] <annevk> heycam|away: that way you'd avoid mentioning specific globals yet we could still have per-global IDL
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  82. # [02:30] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ & http://logbot.glob.com.au/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
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  94. # [03:12] <jpwhiting> ugh, copyright symbols are messing up the java compiler on the build machine
  95. # [03:13] <MikeSmith> jpwhiting: the build for ./util/src/nu/validator/xml/dataattributes/DataAttributeDroppingContentHandlerWrapper.java is failing
  96. # [03:13] <jpwhiting> yep, just noticed that
  97. # [03:13] <jpwhiting> can I tell the javac that the file encoding is utf-8 rather than ascii somehow?
  98. # [03:13] <MikeSmith> because "package nu.validator.htmlparser.impl does not exist"
  99. # [03:13] <jpwhiting> or do I just need to set the encoding in the build machine env somehow
  100. # [03:14] <jpwhiting> like locale en_US.UTF-8 or something
  101. # [03:14] <MikeSmith> so the parser is not built
  102. # [03:14] <jpwhiting> yep, because it fails on a copyright symbol in the .java files
  103. # [03:14] <MikeSmith> this may be due to some circular dependencies
  104. # [03:15] <MikeSmith> and if so the only way to resolve it is to re-run the build
  105. # [03:15] <jpwhiting> no, it's because javac is interpreting the .java files as ascii, but they have unicode copyright symbols in them
  106. # [03:15] <jpwhiting> yep, I'm running --local build twice
  107. # [03:16] <jpwhiting> maybe I need to patch the build system to call javac -encoding utf8 ?
  108. # [03:16] <MikeSmith> also, "./syntax/non-schema/java/src/org/whattf/checker/XmlPiChecker.java:1055: error: unmappable character for encoding ASCII" is weird
  109. # [03:16] <jpwhiting> see these lines : /htmlparser/src/nu/validator/htmlparser/impl/Tokenizer.java:31: error: unmappable character for encoding ASCII
  110. # [03:16] <jpwhiting> yep
  111. # [03:16] <MikeSmith> I have never seen that before
  112. # [03:17] <MikeSmith> jpwhiting: ah yeah
  113. # [03:17] <MikeSmith> I thought I had already done that "-encoding utf8" thing
  114. # [03:18] <jpwhiting> do I just add that to the ant file where it calls javac?
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  116. # [03:19] <MikeSmith> dunno but I think we have an opne bug for it, with a patch. lemme check
  117. # [03:19] <jpwhiting> ah, maybe build/build.py runJavac can be patched to pass -encoding utf8
  118. # [03:20] <jpwhiting> what bug tracker do you use btw?
  119. # [03:20] <jpwhiting> i.e. which url, I didn't notice anything about it on the about.validator.nu site
  120. # [03:20] <MikeSmith> http://bugzilla.validator.nu/
  121. # [03:21] <jpwhiting> thx
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  123. # [03:22] <MikeSmith> that server is really really slow sometimes
  124. # [03:22] <MikeSmith> like, now
  125. # [03:22] <jpwhiting> :) yep, seems to be
  126. # [03:22] <jpwhiting> probably because us is still awake, maybe some of europe, and asia is getting up too
  127. # [03:24] <MikeSmith> http://bugzilla.validator.nu/show_bug.cgi?id=941
  128. # [03:24] <jpwhiting> searching encoding on there doesn't give any obvious bug entries, but you can probably find it easier than I can
  129. # [03:24] <jpwhiting> ah, there it is
  130. # [03:26] <MikeSmith> - runCmd('"%s" -g -nowarn -classpath "%s" -sourcepath "%s" -d "%s" %s'\
  131. # [03:26] <MikeSmith> + runCmd('"%s" -encoding UTF-8 -g -nowarn -classpath "%s" -sourcepath "%s" -d "%s" %s'\
  132. # [03:27] <MikeSmith> I'll commit that change right now and push it upstream
  133. # [03:27] <MikeSmith> I don't know why it causes no problem in my local environment
  134. # [03:27] <MikeSmith> maybe java looks at $LANG or something
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  138. # [03:34] <jpwhiting> yeah, I think so, ok cool, I'll update my tarball with that change
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  140. # [03:34] <jpwhiting> thanks for looking into it :)
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  142. # [03:36] <MikeSmith> thanks for catching it :)
  143. # [03:36] <jpwhiting> yep, np
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  174. # [04:55] <smaug____> rafaelw: sorry, I'm late with that event loop spinning + microtask thing. I'll try to remember think about it tomorrow (or annevk will kick me)
  175. # [04:59] <annevk> :evilsmile:
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  177. # [05:35] <jpwhiting> MikeSmith: what does "Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: nu/validator/servlet/Main : Unsupported major.minor version 51.0" mean when I try to run in my simulator vm
  178. # [05:35] <jpwhiting> the simulator's jdk or jvm is too old?
  179. # [05:35] <MikeSmith> no clue
  180. # [05:35] <MikeSmith> can't recall seeing that one before
  181. # [05:36] <jpwhiting> it's running openjdk-7-jdk u3-2.1.1 wheras I've been building on a machine with u3-2.1.7
  182. # [05:36] <jpwhiting> k, /me googles
  183. # [05:37] <MikeSmith> ah
  184. # [05:37] <MikeSmith> oh wait
  185. # [05:37] <MikeSmith> so both are Java7 environments?
  186. # [05:37] <jpwhiting> yep
  187. # [05:38] <jpwhiting> one is newer than the other though
  188. # [05:38] <jpwhiting> 2.1.1 vs 2.1.7
  189. # [05:38] <MikeSmith> hmm
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  191. # [05:38] <jpwhiting> I'll try backporting 2.1.7 to this ubuntu version I'm using on the simulator in the morning and see if that does it
  192. # [05:38] <jpwhiting> google results are suggesting the same
  193. # [05:39] <MikeSmith> if you can make your compiler compile it as Java6 that would be fine. We don't have any Java7isms in there afaik
  194. # [05:39] <MikeSmith> ok
  195. # [05:39] <jpwhiting> ah, ok, I'll give that a shot too, yeah, I can just change the build dep to make it use openjdk-6 rather than 7 when building
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  341. # [12:36] <Ms2ger> r? https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/246 https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/216
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  449. # [16:26] <matjas> is it okay to use <data> to embed JSON-formatted data in a document, like this? <data value='{"foo":"bar"}'></data>
  450. # [16:26] <matjas> note that it has no content in this case
  451. # [16:27] <matjas> basically, i want an alternative to <script>window.data = <% server-generated JSON goes here %>;</script>
  452. # [16:27] <matjas> …without using inline scripts, so that I can still enable CSP
  453. # [16:28] <matjas> option 1: load the data through Ajax after page load = bad for performance
  454. # [16:28] <matjas> option 2: use <script src=server-side-script-that-outputs-the-data-as-a-js-file></script> → additional HTTP request = bad for performance
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  456. # [16:29] <matjas> option 3: hide the data somewhere in the DOM (in a hidden element, or in an attribute value) and use JS to read it out and `JSON.parse()` it
  457. # [16:29] <matjas> none of those solutions are as performant as a simple inline <script>, though
  458. # [16:29] <matjas> thoughts?
  459. # [16:30] <zewt> on a quick look at the spec, it looks like <data> is valid for this, but since there's no human-readable data associated with it, dataset might be preferable
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  461. # [16:31] <annevk> matjas: how is that different from <body data-json=...> ?
  462. # [16:31] <matjas> zewt: that would be option 3, right? something like <div data-foo="<% json goes here %>"></div>
  463. # [16:31] <zewt> is it actually faster? i'd think there'd be a chance that parsing the data as json might be faster than parsing it as javascript, since it's a much tighter format
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  465. # [16:32] <matjas> annevk: not different… you’re right, just an attribute value would be better since there is no useful non-machine content
  466. # [16:32] <zewt> (if there's any measurable difference at all)
  467. # [16:32] <matjas> zewt: ah, i hadn’t considered that
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  469. # [16:34] <matjas> thanks! I’ll go with `data-json='…'` and `JSON.parse()` then
  470. # [16:36] <matjas> note to self: don’t forget to escape ' in the serialized JSON data as &#x27;
  471. # [16:37] <zewt> reminds me, i need to check my foo = <?= jsonencode(foo) ?>'s for </script> escaping
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  478. # [16:51] <matjas> zewt: don’t forget about <!-- either
  479. # [16:52] <matjas> hsivonen_ suggest simply escaping any occurences of `<`: http://mathiasbynens.be/notes/etago#comment-8
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  481. # [16:52] <matjas> suggests*
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  515. # [18:25] <gsnedders> Is there any point in releasing tests which are going to be handled by idlharness.js?
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  517. # [18:29] <annevk> maybe if you annotate them as such so they can be deleted later on?
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  520. # [18:33] <galant> how can I put inside border in some element
  521. # [18:34] <galant> inside shadow sry not border
  522. # [18:34] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
  523. # [18:35] <TabAtkins> galant: Use the "inset" keyword.
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  526. # [18:37] <galant> thanks
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  589. # [19:07] <Hixie_> annevk: are we up to date with respect to fullscreen event attributes?
  590. # [19:07] * smaug is now known as smaug____
  591. # [19:07] <Hixie_> annevk: c.f. http://www.w3.org/mid/CADnb78jr+rBRYR_iFuB3WwY-U=XxfQJokqO0CWCx3ob=jSSysA@mail.gmail.com
  592. # [19:11] <Hixie_> i'm going to assume that e-mail is out of date.
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  594. # [19:18] <annevk> Hixie_: looks like we're all good
  595. # [19:19] <Hixie_> k
  596. # [19:20] <annevk> yeah, seems we revised our thinking of how to organize things since then
  597. # [19:21] <Hixie_> annevk: what's the story with HTMLElement.dataset? Do you want that on Element?
  598. # [19:21] <annevk> I've been thinking about it, to satisfy the SVG (and Math?) crowd
  599. # [19:21] <TabAtkins> Hixie_: Yes, please. SVG wants data.
  600. # [19:22] <Hixie_> annevk: you gonna reply on the relevant whatwg thread?
  601. # [19:22] <Hixie_> from february?
  602. # [19:22] <Hixie_> or should i?
  603. # [19:22] <Hixie_> i don't really care either way
  604. # [19:22] <Hixie_> i guess i'll reply saying it's your problem
  605. # [19:22] <Hixie_> :-)
  606. # [19:22] <annevk> Hixie_: I already replied there
  607. # [19:23] <Hixie_> yeah but your reply wasn't a "yes" or a "no" it was "let's make this bikeshed bigger"
  608. # [19:23] <annevk> Hixie_: one reason I haven't done it yet is because I haven't seen adoption yet of the Element.id/Element.className stuff, but maybe I haven't been paying sufficient attention
  609. # [19:23] <Hixie_> :-P
  610. # [19:23] <Hixie_> k
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  614. # [19:29] <annevk> Belated :-)
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  619. # [19:39] <TabAtkins> Hixie_: Why does <style scoped> have to be the first child of the element. >_<
  620. # [19:40] <Hixie_> so it doesn't style things before it, same reason <style> has to be in <head> and not randomly in <body>
  621. # [19:41] <TabAtkins> But now I have to add code to my preprocessor to move <style> blocks around just to satisfy the validator.
  622. # [19:41] <Hixie_> not just to satisfy the validator
  623. # [19:42] <Hixie_> also to avoid restyling in incremental rendering
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  626. # [19:45] <TabAtkins> In this case, the only thing above it is an <h1>. ;_;
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  628. # [19:46] <Hixie_> yeah but what if the parser stalled between the <h1> and the <style>?
  629. # [19:46] <Hixie_> then it'd render the h1 one way, then suddenly rerender it
  630. # [19:46] <Hixie_> that's bad for performance
  631. # [19:46] <Hixie_> and ugly
  632. # [19:46] <TabAtkins> Well, assuming I was styling the <h1>, which I'm not. But whatever.
  633. # [19:46] <TabAtkins> Still, I guess I can fix this. Just annoying.
  634. # [19:47] <Hixie_> you could just wrap the rest in a <div> then
  635. # [19:47] <SimonSapin> <style> has to be in <head>? Really?
  636. # [19:47] <Hixie_> or <main>, if that's applicable
  637. # [19:47] <Hixie_> <style> has had to be in <head> since like 1996
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  642. # [19:48] <SimonSapin> Hixie_: that’s an author requirement, right? UAs should still apply <style> that are not in <head>
  643. # [19:48] <Hixie_> yes
  644. # [19:50] <annevk> can <input type=hidden> precede <style>? :-p
  645. # [19:50] <Hixie_> no
  646. # [19:52] * GPH-Zeke is now known as GPHemsley
  647. # [19:52] <TabAtkins> Okay, that was an easier fix than I thought. Anyway, I now produce valid HTML documents (at least for this spec - we'll see as I publish more things under my preprocessor).
  648. # [19:52] <GPHemsley> annevk, Hixie_: Thoughts? https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22641
  649. # [19:53] <Hixie_> that entire section is non-normative.
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  653. # [20:12] <galant> I am not sure how textAlign and textBaseline work on the canvas when I shoul type x y coordinates for the starting text?
  654. # [20:13] <galant> also in which place browser draws the text in that x y coordinates?
  655. # [20:13] <galant> I place 0 0 but top left of the text is not in the top left corner of the canvas why?
  656. # [20:14] <galant> hm
  657. # [20:15] <galant> so if I use textAlign cwenter and textBaseline middle then x,y coordinate is the middle of the text
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  667. # [20:34] <annevk> http://html5.org/r/8051 sorting is hard :)
  668. # [20:34] <annevk> galant: you want something like #html5 for such questions I think
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  670. # [20:42] <annevk> smaug____: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndieUI/raw-file/default/src/indie-ui-events.html very much has a uiactions attribute
  671. # [20:43] <annevk> Hixie_: ^^ uncoordinated extensions to HTML
  672. # [20:44] <smaug____> annevk: yes, that is a "new" thing
  673. # [20:45] <smaug____> there was something else before
  674. # [20:45] <smaug____> annevk: something effectively like mutation event
  675. # [20:45] <smaug____> for some attributes
  676. # [20:45] <annevk> o_O
  677. # [20:45] <smaug____> or something like that
  678. # [20:46] <annevk> smaug____: so the idea is that these events only dispatch if this attribute is used?
  679. # [20:46] * yorick_ is now known as yorick
  680. # [20:47] <smaug____> that mutation event -like thing isn't there anymore
  681. # [20:47] <smaug____> I have to re-read the spec
  682. # [20:53] <annevk> That specification is terrible :/
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  684. # [20:58] <galant> thanks
  685. # [20:59] <galant> ok annevk sry
  686. # [20:59] <annevk> galant: you're free to ask here, it's just that most people here are focused on documenting the web
  687. # [21:00] <annevk> / understanding it
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  692. # [21:11] <reyre_> when comparing TextTrackCue's like in TextTrack::AddCue() should we be doing by value or by ref compare? http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-video-element.html#dom-texttrack-addcue
  693. # [21:11] <Hixie_> galant: i don't understand your question, can you ask again?
  694. # [21:11] <Hixie_> reyre_: by identity (ref)
  695. # [21:11] <Hixie_> annevk: ?
  696. # [21:12] <annevk> Hixie_: that draft, which is being implemented by at least Apple as I understand it, is adding an attribute to HTML; I thought I'd let you know
  697. # [21:12] <Hixie_> aah
  698. # [21:13] <Hixie_> seems not unreasaonable
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  701. # [21:15] <reyre_> Hixie_: awesome, thanks
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  711. # [21:34] <galant> Hixie_, sry I wasn't arround
  712. # [21:34] <galant> Hixie_, I solved my problem, thanks guys for trying to help me
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  717. # [21:40] <smaug____> aha, there I said it. nanotasks. That will be the next lower level task handling. Don't know what they will be for or how they are defined, but obviously we need them.
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  721. # [21:49] <annevk> Taskception. WE NEED TO GO DEEPER!
  722. # [21:49] <galant> I write text with canvas then I am writing over that text same text but with white color and then again I am rewriting the text over with old color however I get some white dots appearing still from the white letters
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  724. # [21:50] <Hixie_> galant: yeah, antialiasing will do that
  725. # [21:50] <galant> hm
  726. # [21:50] <Hixie_> galant: you're better off clearing the whole canvas each frame, in my experience
  727. # [21:50] <galant> :S
  728. # [21:50] <galant> ok thanks
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  731. # [21:56] <galant> man its working like a charm now ^^ :)
  732. # [21:56] <galant> omg im so happy
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  735. # [21:59] <galant> is light webgl performing good in pcs without graphic cards? please invest time in webgl improe it i has so much potential
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  758. # [22:30] <jpwhiting> MikeSmith: up by chance?
  759. # [22:30] * jpwhiting guesses not since it's not even 6am there
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  762. # [22:39] <TabAtkins> Hixie_: Your mail client messes up unicode?
  763. # [22:39] <TabAtkins> See Björn's name in your most recent response to Anne.
  764. # [22:39] <Hixie_> yeah i just updated to a more recent version of pine and i haven't spent the time to work out what settings i need to tweak
  765. # [22:39] <Hixie_> theoretically it's better than the previous version, which was encoding ignorant
  766. # [22:40] <Hixie_> but i may have broken it through whatever hacks i had in before
  767. # [22:41] <Hixie_> GPHemsley: another example of something that is needed from a mouse event spec is defining when form controls get focused in response to clicks
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  769. # [22:51] <ap> Hixie_: just noticed that all browsers fail Acid3 on my machine - pixel results don't match because reference image gets upscaled for Retina
  770. # [22:51] <Hixie_> yeah, acid tests are only valid on 96dpi displays
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  773. # [22:55] <Domenic_> +1 nanotasks
  774. # [23:02] <Hixie_> how the hell does my .bashrc containing just:
  775. # [23:02] <Hixie_> export LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8
  776. # [23:02] <Hixie_> ...result in my Mac OS X environment containing:
  777. # [23:02] <Hixie_> LANG=en_US.UTF-8
  778. # [23:02] <Hixie_> ...and no LC_ALL ???
  779. # [23:03] <Hixie_> not that setting LC_ALL is doing what i want either
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  783. # [23:09] <jsbell> Hixie: MacOS uses .bash_profile not .bashrc
  784. # [23:09] <Hixie_> uh
  785. # [23:09] <Hixie_> it doesn't use both?
  786. # [23:09] <jsbell> apparently not
  787. # [23:09] <Hixie_> fun
  788. # [23:10] <Hixie_> thanks
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  790. # [23:11] <Hixie_> locale -a outputs, amongst many others, "en_US.utf8"
  791. # [23:12] <Hixie_> when i set LC_ALL to "en_US.utf8", i get: locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory
  792. # [23:12] <Hixie_> wtf
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  799. # [23:27] * ojan_away is now known as ojan
  800. # [23:29] <Hixie_> annevk: is the thread "Proposal: Adding methods like getElementById and getElementsByTagName to DocumentFragments" on your radar?
  801. # [23:31] <Hixie_> TabAtkins: right, in theory my encoding woes are fixed...
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  805. # [23:36] <Hixie_> "I think it more common for people to interact mainly with people in their
  806. # [23:36] <Hixie_> own timezone. I.e. most time when talking about dates and times people
  807. # [23:36] <Hixie_> don't me nation what timezone is involved and rely on contest to provide
  808. # [23:36] <Hixie_> that information.
  809. # [23:36] <Hixie_> "
  810. # [23:36] <Hixie_> i'm assuming sicking means "context", not "contest", though the latter is funnier
  811. # [23:37] <Hixie_> (also i assume "me nation" is "mention")
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  819. # [23:59] <annevk> Hixie_: yes
  820. # Session Close: Sat Jul 13 00:00:00 2013

The end :)