/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-07-22 / end

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  17. # [01:08] <SimonSapin> gsnedders: any plan to make a new release (or beta) of html5lib? I hitting a bug in 1.0b2 that’s fixed in git
  18. # [01:09] <SimonSapin> I mean PyPI release
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  25. # [01:33] <gsnedders> SimonSapin: What bug?
  26. # [01:34] <gsnedders> The BufferedStream stuff?
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  28. # [01:36] <gsnedders> SimonSapin: Because I guess I can make a release.
  29. # [01:38] <gsnedders> SimonSapin: Will do so tomorrow.
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  138. # [09:14] <SimonSapin> gsnedders: yeah, that: https://github.com/html5lib/html5lib-python/issues/67
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  149. # [09:44] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Is that more significant than, say, trying to run apache on all your Windows boxes? Or whatever you do for Mobile Firefox?
  150. # [09:46] <Ms2ger> Well, it's only our IT people would hate me for that :)
  151. # [09:47] <jgraham> I'm not sure :)
  152. # [09:47] <Ms2ger> gsnedders, apparently distribute forked setuptools after a breakup with the setuptools developer, but now they're back together
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  183. # [12:14] <SimonSapin> gsnedders: found another issue: https://github.com/html5lib/html5lib-python/issues/96
  184. # [12:14] <SimonSapin> and there is no hurry for a release
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  189. # [12:47] <jgraham> SimonSapin: I'm pretty sure that we only calculate the source position on demand
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  191. # [12:47] <jgraham> Because it's slow
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  194. # [12:54] <SimonSapin> I see
  195. # [12:54] <SimonSapin> but when I get elements from a parsed tree it’s too late
  196. # [12:55] <jgraham> Yes
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  199. # [12:56] <jgraham> https://github.com/html5lib/html5lib-python/blob/master/html5lib/inputstream.py#L217
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  214. # [14:09] <galant> sorry for askign this here but why I can't do this ? if (number.style.color == "rgb(170,0,0)")
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  226. # [14:42] <jgraham> Ms2ger: https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/5 :)
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  228. # [14:47] <Ms2ger> That's Aryeh, isn't it?
  229. # [14:47] * Ms2ger sighs
  230. # [14:49] <jgraham> Yeah, but you only need to review the few changes I made. And maybe close some of zcorpan's issues :)
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  236. # [15:07] <Ms2ger> Not now :)
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  246. # [15:41] <SimonSapin> If you’re using WeasyPrint: it’s about to switch to html5lib. Testing wanted: https://github.com/Kozea/WeasyPrint/pull/112
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  258. # [16:21] <ondras_> now there is this events-related stuff
  259. # [16:22] <ondras_> that I cannot see anywhere in the spec
  260. # [16:22] <ondras_> but browsers implement that in the same manner:
  261. # [16:22] <ondras_> let's add two listeners to one element
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  265. # [16:22] <ondras_> capture listener that stop propagation
  266. # [16:22] <ondras_> bubble listener that does not stop
  267. # [16:22] <ondras_> when I dispatch to that element, both those listeners are called
  268. # [16:22] <ondras_> (when I dispatch to that element's child, only the first listener is obviously called)
  269. # [16:23] <ondras_> can someone please explain?
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  273. # [16:25] <jgraham> ondras_: It's in the DOM spec
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  277. # [16:26] <ondras_> jgraham: I would appreciate a more concrete pointer - reading http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-3-Events/ once more but still missing the relevant part :-(
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  295. # [16:43] <Domenic_> ondras_: the DOM spec is http://dom.spec.whatwg.org/
  296. # [16:43] <Domenic_> note the correlation between that URL and the name of the IRC room you're in ;)
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  307. # [17:04] <ondras_> Domenic_: oops sorry, did not know that the animosity is that strong :>
  308. # [17:04] <gsnedders> SimonSapin: Is there anything apart from the BufferedStream stuff you need in 1.0b3?
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  316. # [17:10] <SimonSapin> gsnedders: the current master works for me
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  322. # [17:23] <gsnedders> jgraham: https://github.com/html5lib/html5lib-python/pull/98
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  327. # [17:29] <SimonSapin> gsnedders: non-seekable RawIOBase-like objects include results of urllib.urlopen(), right?
  328. # [17:29] <gsnedders> Yes.
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  340. # [17:46] <Ms2ger> ondras, it's just that the originals on whatwg.org tend to be more up-to-date than the forks on w3.org
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  357. # [18:09] <TabAtkins> smaug____: Re: CSSWG being on crack, you probably misunderstand. Our profiles are just a way for us to add cool things for qSA/etc without burdening CSS implementations with slow selectors.
  358. # [18:10] <TabAtkins> smaug____: It was either that, or continue to tell people "Nope, screw your qSA needs, we're tying this spec to the most perf-sensitive possible use of Selectors."
  359. # [18:11] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: I just fixed the railroad diagram
  360. # [18:11] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: D'oh.
  361. # [18:13] <smaug____> TabAtkins: so, on crack ;) Making selector handling inconsistent
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  364. # [18:13] <TabAtkins> smaug____: Okay, shrug. I think it's an easy argument that it's good for authors to offer them more power where we can, even though that does mean some selectors are only usable in certain contexts.
  365. # [18:14] <jgraham> gsnedders: How did we end up at 1.0b4?
  366. # [18:14] <smaug____> I wouldn't give up with consistency too easily
  367. # [18:15] <TabAtkins> All I know is, I can't reasonably argue for why jQuery can do something in their selector engine but the browser can't.
  368. # [18:15] <jgraham> TabAtkins: Take the HTTPWG approach and normatively require a user-presented warning when someone uses a slow selector in CSS
  369. # [18:16] <TabAtkins> If you want consistency, sprinkle your magic performance pixie dust over everything so we can just put everything in the fast profile. ^_^
  370. # [18:16] <TabAtkins> jgraham: Editing that in now.
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  372. # [18:22] <Domenic_> moar magic pixie dust plz, i really want those selectors in my css :(
  373. # [18:23] <smaug____> (ofc jQuery can do whatever things they want in their engine. jQuery doing something isn't per se any argument.)
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  376. # [18:24] <TabAtkins> smaug____: Of course not. But external libraries are a great source of inspiration for real features.
  377. # [18:25] <smaug____> sure
  378. # [18:25] <TabAtkins> smaug____: But my point is that jQuery is allowed to do certain things because they're *only* a batch processor (more or less). We have batch-processed Selectors too, but previously we've ignored their performance characteristics in favor of only honoring the perf of selectors in stylesheets.
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  414. # [19:50] <Stemby> hi
  415. # [19:50] <Stemby> this morning I asked for an account on your wiki by e-mail
  416. # [19:51] <Stemby> I haven't received a reply yet...
  417. # [19:51] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  418. # [19:51] <Stemby> can you help me?
  419. # [19:54] * Joins: Spedax (~spedax@5.149.138.2)
  420. # [19:58] <gsnedders> jgraham: How? By the previous commit being the intended 1.0b3 release.
  421. # [19:58] <jgraham> gsnedders: That's two reviews, surely?
  422. # [19:58] <gsnedders> jgraham: Well, if you want to count bumping the release number post-release as separate to the release…
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  432. # [20:18] <Stemby> dglazkov, GPHemsley, Hixie, hober, jgraham, Ms2ger, ShaneHudson, TabAtkins, I found you here: http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/IRC
  433. # [20:18] <Stemby> can you help me?
  434. # [20:19] <TabAtkins> I *think* gphemsley is the one that maintains the wiki accounts.
  435. # [20:19] <TabAtkins> GPHemsley: ^^^
  436. # [20:19] <Hixie> Stemby: what's up?
  437. # [20:19] <Hixie> TabAtkins: do you know if any browsers are on board with https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/rawfile/tip/compositing/index.html#canvascompositingandblending ?
  438. # [20:19] <Stemby> ok, TabAtkins, tahank you!
  439. # [20:19] <Stemby> Hixie: I need an account on your wiki
  440. # [20:20] <Hixie> Stemby: e-mail address?
  441. # [20:20] <Stemby> Hixie: pm
  442. # [20:21] <Hixie> done. check e-mail for credentials.
  443. # [20:21] <Stemby> thank you very much!
  444. # [20:22] <Hixie> np
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  458. # [20:48] <Hixie> i wonder what "The syntax of the property of <composite-mode> is given with" means
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  463. # [21:07] <ondras> Hixie: you around?
  464. # [21:07] <Hixie> yo
  465. # [21:08] <ondras> Hixie: one more question re. events: is there an order defined for listeners on one element, or is this undefined?
  466. # [21:08] <Hixie> there is an order defined.
  467. # [21:09] <Hixie> more or less the order they were added in, though it's a bit more complicated than that when it comes to things like .onfoo handlers.
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  469. # [21:09] <ondras> Hixie: okay; I guess the fixed ordering is something added relatively recently?
  470. # [21:10] <ondras> (IE firing them in the inverted order, even in recent versions iirc)
  471. # [21:10] <Ms2ger> DOM2 or so
  472. # [21:10] <Hixie> well, there's always been _an_ order
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  474. # [21:10] <Hixie> sometimes the order has varied from browser to browser
  475. # [21:10] <Hixie> over the past few years, we've tried to tighten everything up in the specs
  476. # [21:10] <ondras> well, standardized "can be relied upon" order, of course
  477. # [21:10] <Hixie> well, whether it can be relied upon depends on how the browsers are doing implementing the specs
  478. # [21:11] <ondras> I am obviously completely idiotic when it comes to finding stuff in the spec
  479. # [21:11] <Hixie> and how the specs are doing matching what browsers want to implement
  480. # [21:11] <ondras> can you please point me to a good paragraph re. this order in http://dom.spec.whatwg.org/ ?
  481. # [21:12] <Hixie> dunno, let's see
  482. # [21:12] <Ms2ger> It's implicit
  483. # [21:12] <ondras> also, this statement
  484. # [21:12] <ondras> "When set to true, the capture argument ensures callback is only invoked when the event's eventPhase attribute value is CAPTURING_PHASE. "
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  486. # [21:12] <Ms2ger> addEventListener says...
  487. # [21:12] <Ms2ger> *Append* an event listener to the associated list of event listeners
  488. # [21:12] <ondras> okay
  489. # [21:13] <ondras> as for the capture
  490. # [21:13] <ondras> this is not exactly true, is it?
  491. # [21:13] <ondras> the callback will be also executed in the "on target" phase
  492. # [21:13] <Hixie> http://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#concept-event-listener-invoke is where i would hope to see an explicit statement of the order in which the listeners are invoked, and i don't see it
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  494. # [21:13] <ondras> if the event is dispatched at the element
  495. # [21:13] <Hixie> it just says "for each event listener"
  496. # [21:13] <Hixie> not in what order to do it
  497. # [21:13] * GPHemsley notes account requests are not instantaneous.
  498. # [21:14] <Hixie> also "Let listeners be a static list of the event listeners associated with the object" doesn't seem to make any effort to maintain an order
  499. # [21:14] <ondras> Hixie: well this is some interesting news for me anyway, thanks
  500. # [21:14] <ondras> (always considered them unordered for the time being)
  501. # [21:14] <Ms2ger> Yeah, that probably could use a bug
  502. # [21:14] <Hixie> "Each EventTarget has an associated list of event listeners" doesn't seem to actually identify the list so it's not clear how to refer to it, which is clear from that text i just quoted :-)
  503. # [21:15] <Ms2ger> Hixie, easy, "the associated list of event listeners"
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  505. # [21:15] <Hixie> yeah but you don't refer to them that way in the text i quoted, so...
  506. # [21:16] <ondras> Hixie: and that "capture" definition re. CAPTURING_PHASE?
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  508. # [21:16] <Hixie> Ms2ger: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22756
  509. # [21:16] <GPHemsley> Hixie: Psst. You forgot to mention that you created an account for Stemby ;)
  510. # [21:17] <Hixie> ondras: ?
  511. # [21:17] <Ms2ger> Hixie, thanks
  512. # [21:17] <Hixie> GPHemsley: he asked here, i answered here :-)
  513. # [21:17] <GPHemsley> GPHemsley: oh, nevermind. *I* missed reading it. As you were.
  514. # [21:17] <ondras> Hixie: so, the spec states that listeners added with capture=true will be executed only during CAPTURING_PHASE
  515. # [21:18] <ondras> Hixie: which does not seem to be the case when they are attached to the element to which the event is dispatched
  516. # [21:18] <ondras> moreover
  517. # [21:18] <Hixie> ondras: sounds right...
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  519. # [21:18] <ondras> if I addEventListener(node, , false)
  520. # [21:18] <ondras> and then addEventListener(node, , true)
  521. # [21:18] <ondras> these will be called in this order, when dispatching to node
  522. # [21:18] <ondras> (!)
  523. # [21:18] <ondras> am I correct?
  524. # [21:18] <Hixie> well capture is always called first
  525. # [21:19] <Hixie> first you do all the capture handlers, from top of tree to target, then the bubbling/target handlers, from target to top of tree
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  527. # [21:19] <ondras> yes, I know that
  528. # [21:19] <ondras> but this particular scenario
  529. # [21:19] <ondras> where I have both of them on the target
  530. # [21:20] <Hixie> see http://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#dispatching-events
  531. # [21:20] <ondras> yes, reading that right now
  532. # [21:20] <ondras> Then run these substeps for each event listener in listeners:
  533. # [21:20] <ondras> AT_TARGET
  534. # [21:20] <ondras> I do not see them being run "capture first"
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  536. # [21:20] <Hixie> it's in teh "Dispatch" algorithm, step 6.
  537. # [21:21] <Hixie> capture handlers on the target aren't invoked, it seems
  538. # [21:21] <ondras> yes
  539. # [21:21] <ondras> because step6 covers ancestors only
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  541. # [21:22] <Hixie> oh, nevermind
  542. # [21:22] <Hixie> so yeah
  543. # [21:22] <Hixie> the order on the target ignores the capture argument
  544. # [21:22] <Hixie> it seems
  545. # [21:22] <ondras> right, interesting
  546. # [21:22] <Hixie> because all the listeners are done in order, and the phase is AT_TARGET
  547. # [21:22] <ondras> thanks for acknowledging that
  548. # [21:22] <Hixie> so all the listeners fire, not just capture or bubbling
  549. # [21:23] <ondras> so only the wording at addEventListener shall be probably improved w.r.t. CAPTURING_PHASE
  550. # [21:23] <Hixie> Ms2ger: (not sure what /invoke/ 4.6 means)
  551. # [21:23] <Ms2ger> 401 annevk
  552. # [21:23] <Hixie> 401? yikes
  553. # [21:24] * Ms2ger tries to recall what that was
  554. # [21:24] <Ms2ger> Payment required? Or Authorization?
  555. # [21:25] <annevk> Payment is 402
  556. # [21:25] <Hixie> 401 is "unauthorised"
  557. # [21:25] <Hixie> i'm assuming you meant 303
  558. # [21:25] <Hixie> anyway, https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22757
  559. # [21:25] <Ms2ger> Anyway, redirect annevk
  560. # [21:27] <annevk> Hixie: initialize the callback this value?
  561. # [21:27] <annevk> Hixie: how is that unclear?
  562. # [21:28] <Hixie> the word "initialize" isn't in a[C[Catht step?
  563. # [21:28] <Hixie> woah
  564. # [21:28] <Hixie> isn't in that step""
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  566. # [21:29] <Hixie> man, when i have latency, i get all kinds of weird effects. that makes no sense.
  567. # [21:29] <Hixie> it's supposed to be tcp!
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  569. # [21:34] <annevk> Hmm, shrug
  570. # [21:39] <ondras> Hixie: so, can you please confirm that stuff with addEventListener and capturing phase?
  571. # [21:39] <ondras> no need to actually file a bug right now, just a confirmation for me..
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  573. # [21:47] <Hixie> ondras: confirm which stuff?
  574. # [21:47] <ondras> 21:26 < ondras> so only the wording at addEventListener shall be probably improved w.r.t. CAPTURING_PHASE
  575. # [21:47] <ondras> 21:21 < ondras> Hixie: so, the spec states that listeners added with capture=true will be executed only during
  576. # [21:48] <ondras> CAPTURING_PHASE
  577. # [21:48] <ondras> 21:21 < ondras> Hixie: which does not seem to be the case when they are attached to the element to which the event is dispatched
  578. # [21:49] <Hixie> the non-normative text?
  579. # [21:50] <ondras> yes
  580. # [21:50] <ondras> "When set to true, the capture argument ensures"
  581. # [21:50] <ondras> this, exactly
  582. # [21:50] <Hixie> yeah, that looks to be bogus.
  583. # [21:50] <Hixie> i filed https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22758
  584. # [21:50] <ondras> cool, thanks
  585. # [21:51] <Hixie> generally i ignore non-normative text
  586. # [21:52] <ondras> oh?
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  590. # [21:54] <Hixie> ondras: "ain't nobody got time for that", as they say
  591. # [21:54] <Hixie> afk
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  594. # [21:58] <annevk> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2013/07/22.html seems pretty cool
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  606. # [22:14] <annevk_> ondras: Hixie: order is registration order
  607. # [22:14] * annevk_ is now known as annevk
  608. # [22:15] <annevk> ondras: Hixie: I'll make the spec make a copy rather than say it's a static list...
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  613. # [22:21] <annevk> ondras: Hixie: thanks!
  614. # [22:21] <annevk> ondras: I'll add you as "Ondra Zara"
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  618. # [22:29] <galant> why this if ( number.style.color == "rgb(170, 0, 0") is not returning true? he number.style.color is rgb(170, 0, 0)
  619. # [22:29] <galant> ok sorry for annoying I found my mistake :S
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  632. # [22:55] <smaug____> rafaelw: ping
  633. # [22:56] <smaug____> rafaelw: nm, annevk_ will look into the MutationObserver issue later
  634. # [22:57] <annevk_> smaug____: so fwiw, per spec transient registered observers are just a subclass
  635. # [22:57] <annevk_> smaug____: they don't have a relationship of sorts
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  637. # [22:57] <smaug____> right
  638. # [22:57] <annevk_> smaug____: they do have an observer and options associated with them
  639. # [22:58] <smaug____> 2. talks about one observer, not all
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  641. # [22:58] <annevk_> so I guess we want to remove the transient registered observers for which the observer is the context object
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  643. # [22:58] <annevk_> hmm yeah, is that correct?
  644. # [22:59] <smaug____> rafaelw: does that sound ok to you?
  645. # [22:59] <smaug____> that is what Gecko does
  646. # [22:59] <smaug____> and it is IMO the sanest model
  647. # [22:59] <annevk_> but the talking about one observer bit
  648. # [22:59] <annevk_> okay really have to go, will look into the logs later
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  651. # [23:00] <smaug____> rafaelw: IIRC in the email you mentioned disconnect() but that is not what should happen, since it removes all the observers
  652. # [23:00] <smaug____> hmm, btw, should disconnect take an optional param, a Node, so that only some observers could be removed
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  677. # Session Close: Tue Jul 23 00:00:00 2013

The end :)