/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-08-01 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Aug 01 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  4. # [00:03] <gsnedders> Hixie: I don't think there is one? (At least before all your recent changes.)
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  27. # [00:45] <Hixie> gsnedders: well my recent changes explicitly say that the AAA can only create HTML nodes, so i'm just hoping that doesn't mean we'll be cloning SVG nodes into HTML nodes or some such nonsense :-)
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  31. # [00:58] <heycam> Hixie, was pinging yesterday about the incumbent script thing, but I replied on the bug
  32. # [01:00] <Hixie> cool, thanks
  33. # [01:00] * Hixie looks
  34. # [01:01] <Hixie> heycam: looks good at first glance. can't concentrate on it right now, but will try to do this soon. thanks!
  35. # [01:01] <heycam> Hixie, cool
  36. # [01:02] <gsnedders> Hixie: Have you stopped changing the parser yet? P
  37. # [01:02] <gsnedders> * :P
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  39. # [01:05] <Hixie> gsnedders: one more e-mail, i think, and then some template stuff (https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22400 in particular, but i need rafaelw's input)
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  60. # [01:43] <GPHemsley> Is there an easy way to get a <dt> and its associated <dd>(s) to have their tops be at the same level?
  61. # [01:43] <GPHemsley> well, I guess just the first <dd>
  62. # [01:43] * GPHemsley thinks this will wind up being a silly question where he overlooked something obvious
  63. # [01:44] <TabAtkins> No, there isn't. The "best" way currently is to float the <dt>.
  64. # [01:44] <GPHemsley> oh, really?
  65. # [01:44] <TabAtkins> This is one of the canonical use-cases for display:run-in, but we couldn't figure out how to define it sanely.
  66. # [01:44] <GPHemsley> ah
  67. # [01:44] <TabAtkins> fantasai has a definition she cooked up a while back that looks pretty sane, but I haven't had time to focus on the Display spec much lately.
  68. # [01:45] <t3oss> I must leave at least one epmty space after DOCTYPE?
  69. # [01:45] <GPHemsley> TabAtkins: so what do I do about the fact that the text in the <dt> isn't aligned with the text of the <dd>? anything?
  70. # [01:45] <TabAtkins> Nope, nothing you can do.
  71. # [01:45] <GPHemsley> darn, ok
  72. # [01:45] <TabAtkins> Besides fiddle with it.
  73. # [01:45] <GPHemsley> thanks
  74. # [01:47] <GPHemsley> TabAtkins: I know I've said this before, but I can't get over how much I really like the work that you and fantasai and the rest of the CSSWG are doing.
  75. # [01:47] <TabAtkins> ^_^
  76. # [01:47] <GPHemsley> I think I just like modular stuff >_>
  77. # [01:48] <GPHemsley> also, progress
  78. # [01:48] <TabAtkins> Everyone likes that.
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  80. # [01:49] <GPHemsley> now if only the browsers would work as fast in implementing the stuff...
  81. # [01:52] <GPHemsley> "IE11 supports the latest standards for closed captioning (TTML and SDP)"
  82. # [01:52] <GPHemsley> poor WebVTT :(
  83. # [01:52] <TabAtkins> ...
  84. # [01:53] <TabAtkins> Unrelated: I can't express how much I love Python's for/else clause. I want this *constantly* in JS. ;_;
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  96. # [02:12] <gsnedders> Hixie: okay, tell me when done then I'll touch html5lib
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  128. # [03:24] <t3oss> ambiguous ampersand is called string for writing unicode characters with their unicode codes?
  129. # [03:24] <t3oss> from "&#x003c; -- "&#x" and ";" is called ambiguous ampersand?
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  131. # [03:31] <Hixie> gsnedders: i don't know what the eta on that would be
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  155. # [04:27] <gsnedders> Hixie: I'm finally hacking on the stuff I've wanted to work on for ages. Try and learn something over the summer. So, well, not too fussed about html5lib. It mostly works.
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  272. # [10:40] <Ms2ger> "We accounted for some tests around algorithms but believe that many algorithm steps, especially intermediate steps, do not require separate tests."
  273. # [10:41] <annevk> URL?
  274. # [10:41] <Ms2ger> http://www.w3.org/mid/E557E34E53296846B3E3EDF9A8640B1923664DCC@EXCHANGE.cablelabs.com
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  286. # [11:08] <Ms2ger> annevk, and happy birthday and stuff
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  288. # [11:08] <t3oss> I am making web site about web design, it will have reference to html css javascript php mysql nginx apache etc. Before I put it online I think it will be very nice if someone of the officials here have little time to check it fast, check articles to see if they are 'ok', because I want to give best information to the public without any errors
  289. # [11:09] <t3oss> all the articles are made from html specification
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  296. # [11:33] <ondras> question:
  297. # [11:33] <ondras> iframe.contentDocument
  298. # [11:33] <SimonSapin> t3oss: documenting all of this (and maintaining it as new stuff comes up) seems like a lot of duplicated work :(
  299. # [11:33] <ondras> is there any spec stating *when* is this available?
  300. # [11:33] <ondras> e.g. "immediately after setting src"
  301. # [11:34] <ondras> or "after onload"
  302. # [11:34] <ondras> or so?
  303. # [11:35] <t3oss> I think there are some things lacking on the WEB right now and I want to make them but I in order to do so I must have full control so making my own website is only way to go
  304. # [11:37] <t3oss> I believe new web devs will find hard to begin learning directly from HTML spec, even in the spec it says they should read some books or tutorials so there is need to guide them through the spec and describe some intermediate things they might lack that can confuse them
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  307. # [11:45] <wilhelm> t3oss: http://www.webplatform.org/
  308. # [11:45] <jgraham> Argh cross posting
  309. # [11:45] <jgraham> Now I don't know what to do
  310. # [11:46] <jgraham> annevk: also happy birthday if it is indeed your birthday
  311. # [11:50] <t3oss> Does HTML allow text to be written outside of element directly in the body element?
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  314. # [11:53] <SimonSapin> t3oss: of course documentation is needed. But it’s a lot of work and thus takes a lot of people. Trying to do it all yourself will just fail. Why do you want full control over this?
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  316. # [11:54] <t3oss> also character reference is &lt; and &#x003c; is code point?
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  318. # [11:54] <t3oss> SimonSapin, because I disagree with people most of the time on some things :))
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  321. # [11:57] <SimonSapin> yeah, what could go wrong
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  325. # [12:03] <t3oss> also can I write all Unicode characters on the html or just these that are written here? http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/syntax.html#named-character-references
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  347. # [13:15] <annevk> jgornick: ta
  348. # [13:15] <annevk> oops, jgraham / Ms2ger ta
  349. # [13:15] <annevk> didn't realize we had a new jg
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  351. # [13:21] <annevk> odinho: haven't really planned visiting Oslo yet
  352. # [13:21] <annevk> odinho: I should soonish I guess
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  356. # [13:32] <odinho> annevk: Yeah man <3
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  398. # [15:18] <annevk> transient registered observers, I hate you
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  402. # [15:47] <annevk> https://github.com/whatwg/dom/commit/df0f8f510445533697840087262e0724d601eb08 ...
  403. # [15:49] <t3oss> what is going on? http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/
  404. # [15:49] <t3oss> I can't open links
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  406. # [15:50] <annevk> t3oss: use http://whatwg.org/C
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  409. # [15:53] <t3oss> because web dev edition doesn't have info on it
  410. # [15:53] <annevk> you're confused
  411. # [15:54] <annevk> I didn't point you to http://developers.whatwg.org/
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  451. # [17:29] <annevk> Hixie: there's part of a thread in es-discuss addressed to ianh ("Realm, schmealm!"); basically others finding out about what bz has been raising for a bit and bz explaining it (including the bit where it will take other browsers to adopt Gecko's model for the specification to change the security model with regards to multiple globals and different origins)
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  496. # [19:09] <GPHemsley> Hixie: Is there an error in the presentation hints for quotes when it comes to en/en-AU/en-GB? Shouldn't some of those be 'test "test" test' ?
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  498. # [19:19] <TabAtkins> GPHemsley: Why would they be? (I think you're asserting that the order of double vs single should be reversed?)
  499. # [19:20] <GPHemsley> TabAtkins: It is my understanding that certain varieties of English use the inverted order (double inside single) instead of the listed order.
  500. # [19:20] <GPHemsley> en-US uses single inside double
  501. # [19:20] <GPHemsley> which is not listed
  502. # [19:21] <TabAtkins> Ah, I didn't realize that was even a thing.
  503. # [19:21] <TabAtkins> Arent' dialog conventions the same across them, though?
  504. # [19:21] <GPHemsley> en-AU and en-GB are listed even though they don't differ from en (as written)
  505. # [19:22] <GPHemsley> Amy said, "Bob said, 'I speak English.'"
  506. # [19:22] <GPHemsley> en-US ^
  507. # [19:22] <TabAtkins> Right.
  508. # [19:22] <GPHemsley> en-GB (I think): Amy said, 'Bob said, "I speak English."'
  509. # [19:23] <TabAtkins> Huh. Well, I don't see that in books I read from Britain, unless they've been converted for an american audience.
  510. # [19:23] <zewt> 「quotes suck」
  511. # [19:24] <jgraham> GPHemsley: Really?
  512. # [19:24] <jgraham> [citation-needed] on eb-GB
  513. # [19:24] <GPHemsley> "Double quotes are preferred in the United States, and also tend to be preferred in Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Single quotes are more usual in the United Kingdom and South Africa, though double quotes are also common there.["
  514. # [19:24] <GPHemsley> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark
  515. # [19:24] <GPHemsley> The Penguin Guide to Punctuation, R. L. Trask, p. 94.
  516. # [19:24] <GPHemsley> ;)
  517. # [19:24] <jgraham> Yeah, that doesn't match my experience
  518. # [19:25] <jgraham> Or I have never noticed
  519. # [19:25] <zewt> <- user styles away superscripts on wikipedia (was: re: hard to read)
  520. # [19:25] <GPHemsley> either way, as it stands, the specific rules for en-AU and en-GB are useless, because they duplicate en and there aren't any other en-* styles
  521. # [19:26] <GPHemsley> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#quotes
  522. # [19:27] <GPHemsley> :root:lang(en), :not(:lang(en)) > :lang(en) { quotes: '\201c' '\201d' '\2018' '\2019' } /* “ ” ‘ ’ */
  523. # [19:27] <GPHemsley> :root:lang(en-AU), :not(:lang(en-AU)) > :lang(en-AU) { quotes: '\201c' '\201d' '\2018' '\2019' } /* “ ” ‘ ’ */
  524. # [19:27] <GPHemsley> :root:lang(en-GB), :not(:lang(en-GB)) > :lang(en-GB) { quotes: '\201c' '\201d' '\2018' '\2019' } /* “ ” ‘ ’ */
  525. # [19:27] <jgraham> "Use double quotes at the start and end of a quoted section, with single quotes for quoted words within that section." - Guardian style guide
  526. # [19:27] <TabAtkins> Right, given their current definition, we can just drop the two specific lines.
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  528. # [19:27] <jgraham> http://www.theguardian.com/styleguide/q
  529. # [19:28] <GPHemsley> Yeah, perhaps the inverted order is on its way out
  530. # [19:28] <GPHemsley> someone should check on South Africa
  531. # [19:29] <GPHemsley> (en-ZA)
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  533. # [19:32] <jgraham> "quotation marks: use double quotes except in heads, captions or crossheads. Quotes within quotes are single; quotes within quotes within quotes are double"
  534. # [19:32] <jgraham> From The Telegraph
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  536. # [19:34] <Hixie> GPHemsley: i autogenerate those parts of the spec from the Unicode CLDR
  537. # [19:34] <Hixie> should be at most a few days behind
  538. # [19:35] <GPHemsley> then perhaps someone should ping the CLDR
  539. # [19:35] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  540. # [19:36] <jgraham> And now I wonder why "order of magnitude" is a banned term in The Telegraph
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  543. # [19:49] <TabAtkins> Maybe it's unclear what it means? It does have different multiplies in different fields.
  544. # [19:49] <TabAtkins> *2 in comp sci, *10 in physics, often roughly *1000 in common parlance
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  558. # [20:10] <Hixie> rafaelw: ping https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22400
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  582. # [20:51] <aklein> Hixie: pong (on behalf of rafaelw), see my last comment
  583. # [20:51] <aklein> Hixie: it logs 1 for me in Chrome and 2 in Firefox
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  585. # [20:52] <aklein> (the presence of the <template> has no effect on Chrome's output)
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  603. # [21:30] <Hixie> aklein: i see the same as you
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  610. # [21:37] <aklein> Hixie: so which spec are you saying chrome doesn't follow? the spec as-is, or the spec with but 22400 fixed?
  611. # [21:37] <Hixie> the spec as is
  612. # [21:37] <Hixie> chrome acts as if the bug was fixed. firefox acts per the spec now.
  613. # [21:38] <aklein> ah, yes: we had to land a fix for this bug to avoid crashes
  614. # [21:39] <Hixie> crashes?
  615. # [21:39] <Hixie> weird
  616. # [21:39] <Hixie> why would this cause crashes?
  617. # [21:40] <Hixie> heycam|away: ok, incumbent stuff is in
  618. # [21:41] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.218.24)
  619. # [21:42] <aklein> Hixie: the association between the <form> and the <input> would under some circumstances (in Blink and WebKit, anyway) live longer than the <input> itself, so we'd end up with a use-after-free
  620. # [21:42] <Hixie> interesting
  621. # [21:42] <Hixie> can't you get those same problems without template?
  622. # [21:43] <aklein> I am indeed curious whether the test case you just sent might cause crashes after a GC :)
  623. # [21:43] * Quits: josemanuel (~josemanue@53.206.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) (Quit: Saliendo)
  624. # [21:44] <aklein> I'm sure it's quite possible to fix those crashes in some other way, but given that they needed to be fixed anyway, it didn't make much semantic sense to us for forms to be associated with elements inside templates
  625. # [21:45] <aklein> if you and the Firefox folks feel differently we'd be open to changing back
  626. # [21:45] <aklein> (and finding another way to fix the crashes)
  627. # [21:47] <Hixie> oh i think the bug is valid
  628. # [21:47] <Hixie> but we should fix the spec, not just the implementation :-P
  629. # [21:48] <Hixie> anyway, if the bug should be fixed, please reassign it to me
  630. # [21:48] <Hixie> right now it's in rafaelw's bucket
  631. # [21:48] * Joins: TuRnaD0 (~Thunderbi@x1-6-e0-46-9a-1e-fe-ca.k368.webspeed.dk)
  632. # [21:49] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  633. # [21:49] <aklein> Hixie: ah, ok, I don't think rafaelw knew you were waiting for him. reassigned
  634. # [21:49] <Hixie> k, thanks
  635. # [21:50] <aklein> Hixie: fyi, your test case crashes chrome
  636. # [21:51] <Hixie> hah
  637. # [21:52] <Ms2ger> aklein, I guess that's better than reading uninitialized memory in IE
  638. # [21:52] * Ms2ger did that once
  639. # [21:54] <aklein> Ms2ger: it might be exactly as bad, luckily Chrome has some hardening against trying to wrap deleted memory in JS objects
  640. # [21:54] <aklein> and now I go off to fix Blink
  641. # [21:54] <Ms2ger> Heh
  642. # [22:00] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@y230006.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
  643. # [22:02] * Hixie wonders how exactly to block this
  644. # [22:03] <Hixie> hm, there's a template stack, isn't there
  645. # [22:03] <Hixie> maybe i just don't do the form thing if we're in a template
  646. # [22:07] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  647. # [22:07] <aklein> Hixie: for parser-associated form controls like the one in your test case, will it forever be associated with the form?
  648. # [22:08] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net)
  649. # [22:08] <Hixie> aklein: until the "reset the form owner" algorithm is run
  650. # [22:08] <Hixie> which could happen whenever or never
  651. # [22:10] <aklein> and in this case, where we never touch the <input> again, it's supposed to stick around forever
  652. # [22:10] <aklein> hmm
  653. # [22:11] <aklein> it seems WebKit and Blink don't follow this very well
  654. # [22:12] <jgraham> Hmm, I wonder if we ever wrote tests for this stuff
  655. # [22:13] <jgraham> I remember going through it with bratell for Presto
  656. # [22:13] <Hixie> aklein: you "just" need a strong reference from the <form> to all its elements, right?
  657. # [22:13] * Quits: zdobersek (~zdobersek@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
  658. # [22:15] <jgraham> Not with <template>, obviously
  659. # [22:15] <jgraham> (that was a reply to myself)
  660. # [22:18] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  661. # [22:18] <t3oss> I am very confused, I have one h1 and more h2 elements and p elements in one section, h2 element has bigger font size then h1 why?
  662. # [22:25] <aklein> Hixie: indeed, but I'm not at all sure that wouldn't create leaks in the Blink implementation. need to go talk to some more folks who know this code better than I.
  663. # [22:27] <Ms2ger> Because h1s look at ancestor sections for their font size and h2 doesn't
  664. # [22:27] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@nat/mozilla/x-sgqhfoltxocqsnob)
  665. # [22:31] <t3oss> why
  666. # [22:32] <Hixie> basically there's two models for headers in the spec
  667. # [22:32] <t3oss> I have this outline <section><h1></h1><h2></h2><p></p><h2></h2><p></p></section>
  668. # [22:32] <Hixie> either you use <h1>-<h6> throughout, or you use <h1> only.
  669. # [22:32] <Hixie> if you mix these (which you're allowed to do), you have to manually style them.
  670. # [22:32] <t3oss> h1 got from any(article,aside,nav,section) h1 { font-size: 1.17em; and h2 from: h2 { display: block; font-size: 1.5em;
  671. # [22:33] <t3oss> Hixie, so you say I must use all h1-h6 headings not just h1 and h2?
  672. # [22:33] <Hixie> well, you have to pick one of these three, basically:
  673. # [22:34] <Hixie> 1. use only <h1>, as in: <section> <h1>...</h1> <section> <h1>...</h1> <p></p> </section> <section> <h1>...</h1> <p></p> </section> </section>
  674. # [22:35] <Hixie> 2. use <h1>-<h6>, as in: <section> <h2>...</h2> <h3>...</h3> <p></p> <h3>...</h3> <p>...</p> </section> (the <h1> would be the page header, not shown here)
  675. # [22:35] <Hixie> 3. do what you're doing now, but manually style all the <h1>-<h6> headers to be as you wish them to be
  676. # [22:35] <t3oss> Hixie I read on the web I should use only 1 h1 element on a web page
  677. # [22:36] <Hixie> that is no longer true with HTML today
  678. # [22:36] <t3oss> aham
  679. # [22:36] <Hixie> it's true if you use model 2 above, but in that case the <h1> would be outside the <Section>, since it would be the title of the <Body>.
  680. # [22:36] <t3oss> ok I think I got it
  681. # [22:37] <t3oss> so valid would be <section><h1></h1><section><h2></h2><p></p></section></section> ? I guess :)
  682. # [22:37] <TabAtkins> Technically valid, but weird. Don't mix your models like that.
  683. # [22:37] <TabAtkins> Either use <section> and just <h1>, or use all the <hn> tags and just let the sections be implicit.
  684. # [22:38] <t3oss> Hixie, in 2nd case h1 must be directly in the body? not nested in any element like section or mine example is valid above?
  685. # [22:38] * Quits: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  686. # [22:38] <t3oss> but where to put the h1 element? directly in the body? why my outline is weird?
  687. # [22:39] <Hixie> <section> is a subsection
  688. # [22:39] <Hixie> so it has a parent section
  689. # [22:39] <Hixie> typically the <body>
  690. # [22:39] <Hixie> that presumably has a heading, right?
  691. # [22:39] <Hixie> so if you're using h1-h6, the h1 would be the heading of that master section, the page, the <body>
  692. # [22:40] <t3oss> ok so h1 I guess goes directly in body not nested if I use it
  693. # [22:40] <t3oss> ok I got it finally thanks Hixie and TabAtkins Ms2ger all thanks a lot
  694. # [22:41] <Ms2ger> Np
  695. # [22:42] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  696. # [22:42] <t3oss> one more question and I am off can I use second model Hixie told but avoid using h1 element is that valid?
  697. # [22:43] <Ms2ger> Hixie, did you make it valid?
  698. # [22:43] <Hixie> what?
  699. # [22:43] <t3oss> so <body><sectioon><h2></h2><p></p><h3></h3><p></p><h2></h2><p></p></section></body>
  700. # [22:43] <Hixie> with two <h2>s?
  701. # [22:43] <t3oss> is this valid if I don't use h1 just h2 and h3
  702. # [22:43] * Quits: tobie (~tobielang@73-118.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch) (Quit: tobie)
  703. # [22:43] <t3oss> yes Hixie
  704. # [22:44] <Hixie> it's not invalid, i mean, the spec defines that that means, but it's probably not what you want
  705. # [22:44] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no)
  706. # [22:44] <t3oss> hm
  707. # [22:47] <Hixie> it would mean the same as: <body><section><h1></h1><p></p><section><h1></h1><p></p></section></section><section><h1></h1><p></p></section></body>
  708. # [22:47] <Hixie> (notice that that's two top-level sections)
  709. # [22:47] <Hixie> (well, subsections of the body)
  710. # [22:48] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@cm-84.210.170.16.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  711. # [22:50] <t3oss> ok Hixie thanks
  712. # [22:50] <t3oss> for clarifying things that bothered me for some time now
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  715. # [22:51] <Hixie> gsnedders: i am no longer aware of open non-editorial parser issues
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  723. # [23:03] <Hixie> TabAtkins: ping
  724. # [23:03] <TabAtkins> pong
  725. # [23:03] <Hixie> TabAtkins: you made any progress on a scoped CSS spec?
  726. # [23:04] <Hixie> i've got an e-mail here from you saying you were looking at that earlier this year
  727. # [23:04] * Hixie would love to off-load the scoped="" processing model
  728. # [23:04] <TabAtkins> The Cascade and Selectors spec together define how scoped styles work.
  729. # [23:04] <Hixie> does it define @global or whatever replaced that, as well?
  730. # [23:04] <TabAtkins> There's no in-CSS definition of how global-name-defining at-rules work in a scoped context yet, though.
  731. # [23:04] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  732. # [23:04] <TabAtkins> No, that's waiting for me to write something.
  733. # [23:05] <Hixie> k
  734. # [23:05] <Hixie> but i can remove the following?:
  735. # [23:05] <Hixie> # For scoped CSS resources, the effect of other @-rules must be scoped to either the scoped sheet and its subresources or to the subtree rooted at the style element's parent (if any), even if the @-rule in question would ordinarily apply to all style sheets that affect the Document, or to all nodes in the Document. Any '@page' rules in scoped CSS resources must be ignored.
  736. # [23:05] <Hixie> (and defer to your spec?)
  737. # [23:06] <Hixie> (mmm, "cascade" is nice to type on a qwerty keyboard)
  738. # [23:07] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@225.228-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Quit: nn)
  739. # [23:12] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.218.24)
  740. # [23:12] <Hixie> TabAtkins: what do i have to say to make @import scope properly?
  741. # [23:12] <TabAtkins> Sorry, I'd flipped away. ^^_
  742. # [23:12] <Hixie> looks like the only hook you provide is for declarations
  743. # [23:13] <Hixie> currently i am replacing the above with:
  744. # [23:13] <Hixie> <p>For the purposes of the CSS Cascade model, any declaration in a <code>style</code> element that
  745. # [23:13] <Hixie> has a <code title="attr-style-scoped">scoped</code> attribute and has a parent node that is an
  746. # [23:13] <Hixie> element is <i>scoped</i>, with the <i>scoping element</i> being the <code>style</code> element's
  747. # [23:13] <Hixie> parent element.</p>
  748. # [23:13] <Hixie> but that doesn't handle @-rules at all, including @import
  749. # [23:14] <TabAtkins> Right, in the absence of the actual Scoping spec, we're just solving the specific things needed for Cascade (scoped declarations interaction with the cascade) and Selectors.
  750. # [23:15] <TabAtkins> Ah, hm. You know, we don't actually define what @import does, at all, in Cascade.
  751. # [23:15] <TabAtkins> Let me define that real quick, so that at least @import will be auto-handled by the fact that the stylesheet is scoped.
  752. # [23:16] <Hixie> hehe
  753. # [23:16] * Quits: rego (~rego@231.193.27.77.dynamic.mundo-r.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  754. # [23:21] * GPHemsley needs to learn how to use a mail client application
  755. # [23:21] <Hixie> yeah, me too
  756. # [23:21] <Hixie> i've screwed up three posts in a row today
  757. # [23:21] <Hixie> to es-discuss
  758. # [23:23] * Quits: t3oss (~t3oss@unaffiliated/t3oss) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  759. # [23:26] <TabAtkins> Hixie: Okay, the actual effect of @import is now defined, so you don't have to mention anything about @import and scoping.
  760. # [23:26] <Hixie> what do i have to say?
  761. # [23:26] <TabAtkins> But what other at-rules do inside of scoped rules is still not defined, until I write the spec.
  762. # [23:26] <TabAtkins> Nothing.
  763. # [23:27] <Hixie> i mean, what do i say to make the sheet scoped
  764. # [23:27] * Joins: tobie (~tobielang@73-118.195-178.cust.bluewin.ch)
  765. # [23:27] <Hixie> or do @import rules could as "declarations"?
  766. # [23:27] <Hixie> count
  767. # [23:27] <TabAtkins> Oh, just say the stylesheet becomes scoped. That's a dangling reference, but I'll pick it up later.
  768. # [23:27] <Hixie> ah ok
  769. # [23:27] <Hixie> thanks
  770. # [23:27] <TabAtkins> They don't. at-rules in general aren't defined yet in scoped stylesheets, until I write the spec.
  771. # [23:28] <Hixie> and i define "the style sheet's scoping element"?
  772. # [23:28] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
  773. # [23:28] * Joins: t3oss (~t3oss@77.28.16.5)
  774. # [23:29] <Hixie> as in:
  775. # [23:29] <Hixie> <p>For the purposes of the CSS Cascade model, a style sheet declared by a <code>style</code>
  776. # [23:29] <Hixie> element that has a <code title="attr-style-scoped">scoped</code> attribute and has a parent node
  777. # [23:29] <Hixie> that is an element is <i>scoped</i>, with the <i>scoping element</i> being the <code>style</code>
  778. # [23:29] <Hixie> element's parent element.</p>
  779. # [23:29] <Hixie> ...?
  780. # [23:29] <TabAtkins> Yes, that works.
  781. # [23:30] * Joins: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-hnstcwkygsomvzib)
  782. # [23:30] <TabAtkins> You don't need the prelude, I guess (about it being for the purposes of the Cascade model).
  783. # [23:30] <TabAtkins> Since scoping affects more than Cascade.
  784. # [23:30] <Hixie> k
  785. # [23:30] <Hixie> <p>A style sheet declared by a <code>style</code> element that has a <code
  786. # [23:30] <Hixie> title="attr-style-scoped">scoped</code> attribute and has a parent node that is an element is
  787. # [23:30] <Hixie> <i>scoped</i>, with the <i>scoping element</i> being the <code>style</code> element's parent
  788. # [23:30] <Hixie> element. <a href="#refsCSSSCOPED">[CSSSCOPED]</a></p>
  789. # [23:30] <Hixie> with that ref being "XXX"
  790. # [23:31] <TabAtkins> Yeah, golden.
  791. # [23:32] <Hixie> <dt id="refsCSSSCOPED">[CSSSCOPED]</dt>
  792. # [23:32] <Hixie> <dd><cite>CSS Scoped Style Sheets</cite>, T. Atkins. Your Imagination.</dd>
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  797. # [23:39] <TabAtkins> Hahaha
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  800. # [23:47] <odinho> congrats annevk
  801. # [23:47] <jgraham> The achievement being making it through one more year without dying in some madcap adventure?
  802. # [23:48] <odinho> Yes. Still alive.
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  805. # Session Close: Fri Aug 02 00:00:00 2013

The end :)