/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-08-04 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Aug 04 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:06] <Hixie> MikeSmith: k
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  42. # [03:03] <heycam> Hixie, my irc bouncer sometimes loses track of whether it has marked me away when I disconnect from it abnormally
  43. # [03:03] <Hixie> hehe
  44. # [03:04] <Hixie> heycam: for the incumbent script thing
  45. # [03:05] <Hixie> heycam: i'd like this algorithm to be invoked when you call a callback: http://whatwg.org/html#jump-to-a-code-entry-point
  46. # [03:05] * heycam looks
  47. # [03:05] <Hixie> heycam: it handles things like script getting disabled, the document no longer being active, and marking the entry script
  48. # [03:05] <Hixie> heycam: and invoking microtasks, etc
  49. # [03:06] <Hixie> heycam: you got any ideas on how to hook this up?
  50. # [03:06] <heycam> Hixie, ah so you'll handle all the pushing and popping to the stack
  51. # [03:08] <heycam> Hixie, so I don't really understand the relationship between the Function object that I have in my callback invoking algorithm and the "code entry-point"
  52. # [03:08] <Hixie> yeah, there's no relationship (any more, i broke that yesterday when i realised i never invoked callbacks, before realising you did and we needed this still)
  53. # [03:08] <Hixie> but we can fix that by renaming the algorithm or something
  54. # [03:09] <heycam> Hixie, actually, do you want Web IDL to push/pop the incumbent script stack or not?
  55. # [03:09] <Hixie> heycam: well, you still have to push when you're invoking things that aren't script
  56. # [03:09] <Hixie> e.g. in setTimeout(window.alert, 100, s)
  57. # [03:09] <Hixie> when you call window.alert
  58. # [03:09] <heycam> I see
  59. # [03:10] <heycam> but I think I need to push/pop even for Function objects that come from a script, because Web IDL has the stashed away script to push/pop
  60. # [03:10] <heycam> can't just call in to "jump to a code entry-point", unless I pass that script in to that algorithm
  61. # [03:10] <heycam> or is that what "for a script" means
  62. # [03:11] <heycam> in "When a user agent is to jump to a code entry-point for a script, ..."
  63. # [03:13] <Hixie> yeah, this will need some work on both ends
  64. # [03:13] <Hixie> (i'm not actually able to work right now, just wanted to give you a brain dump since you were online)
  65. # [03:13] <heycam> ok
  66. # [03:13] <heycam> so if I can just pass in to you the Function object, the arguments to pass to it (and the this value to use), and the script I've stashed away, that should work
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  68. # [03:13] <Hixie> sounds good to me. pass it to a new algorithm and i'll hook it all up on monday.
  69. # [03:14] <heycam> then I can remove the pushing/popping that I do
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  75. # [03:31] <Hixie> heycam: just make sure you still do it when the thing you're calling is a host thingy and not a script
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  77. # [03:32] <heycam> Hixie, ok. the two shouldn't be handled differently in Web IDL currently.
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  79. # [03:42] <Hixie> heycam: i mean, still do it on your side (not call into the html algorithm)
  80. # [03:43] <heycam> Hixie, oh ok. so in that case I should be the one invoking [[Call]]? but for Function objects from a script, your algorithm will invoke [[Call]]?
  81. # [03:43] <Hixie> well my algorithm has no idea how to handle "call window.alert()", as in the setTimeout(window.alert, 100, s) case, where the callback is a host thing
  82. # [03:44] <heycam> hmm
  83. # [03:45] <heycam> what's the difference? does the step 4 you've currently got there do anything special?
  84. # [03:45] <Hixie> well there's no script
  85. # [03:45] <Hixie> i guess that's what you meant by you have a script and an entry point, though, hm
  86. # [03:46] <heycam> but does step 4 just mean "invoke [[Call]]"?
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  88. # [03:46] <Hixie> yeah i guess if you force feed me the info i need, that works
  89. # [03:46] <Hixie> i've no idea what step 4 really means
  90. # [03:46] <heycam> heh
  91. # [03:46] <Hixie> it's trying to vaguely be language-agnostic
  92. # [03:46] <heycam> ah
  93. # [03:46] <Hixie> though that may be a lost cause
  94. # [03:46] <Hixie> i think we're likely to see a return to people caring about that shortly, though
  95. # [03:47] <Hixie> like, in the coming years
  96. # [03:47] <Hixie> with asm.js and so forth
  97. # [03:47] <heycam> we'll see I guess
  98. # [03:47] <heycam> ok I'll write some text and I'll send you an email
  99. # [03:47] <heycam> oh one thing
  100. # [03:48] <heycam> this algorithm can abort in certain situations where it can't call the function
  101. # [03:48] <heycam> on the Web IDL side, I'm expecting to return a value of a particular Web IDL type. for example if it's a callback function with a particular return type
  102. # [03:49] <heycam> so in that situation I can't just return nothing. feels like I should be throwing an exception in that case.
  103. # [03:49] <heycam> though not sure what exception it should be
  104. # [03:50] <Hixie> only if the script is disabled, right?
  105. # [03:50] <Hixie> what would you do with the exception?
  106. # [03:50] <heycam> propagate it out?
  107. # [03:50] <Hixie> to what? if script is disabled...
  108. # [03:50] <heycam> is script being disabled the only situation where you don't invoke callbacks like this?
  109. # [03:51] <Hixie> the document not being active
  110. # [03:51] <Hixie> i think that's it, no?
  111. # [03:51] <Hixie> i'd just treat the return value as "void"
  112. # [03:51] <Hixie> and pretend it ran a no-op
  113. # [03:52] <heycam> if my callback is a `callback Something = Node ();`
  114. # [03:52] <heycam> I guess I could pretend the function returned undefined, try to convert that, and throw as a result
  115. # [03:52] <heycam> but as you say this might not be user visible anyway
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  117. # [03:53] <Hixie> i would treat it as if the script had been function () { }
  118. # [03:53] <heycam> ok
  119. # [03:54] <heycam> so when you do these preparatory steps of checking if scripting is disabled for the script's browsing context, is that not for the script that's currently on the top of the stack, but the script the Function object actually comes from?
  120. # [03:55] <heycam> does it make sense if you do `setTimeout(window.alert, …)` to look at the incumbent script that was associated with window.alert, when you passed it in as a callback?
  121. # [03:55] <Hixie> it's for the script you're about to run
  122. # [03:55] <Hixie> in that particular case, i doubt it matters exactly who you're checking
  123. # [03:55] <heycam> hmm
  124. # [03:55] <Hixie> oh, it should matter actually
  125. # [03:56] <Hixie> it should be the script that called window.setTimeout()
  126. # [03:56] <heycam> aha
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  128. # [03:57] <Hixie> though i think for timeout we actually already have mechanisms in place to stall them if the window is not active
  129. # [03:57] <Hixie> so it doesn't much matter
  130. # [03:58] <heycam> would that be ok in general though? do these preparatory steps on the script that's on top of the stack, if it's a host object thing, and the actual script the Function object is from if it's a user thing?
  131. # [04:10] <Hixie> i guess?
  132. # [04:10] <Hixie> maybe we don't even do them for host things
  133. # [04:13] <heycam> the step 3 where we push on to the incumbent script stack, is it right that we push the actual script the Function object came from, if it is a user thing, but we need to push the "whatever was at the top of the stack at the time we passed in the callback" script for a host thing?
  134. # [04:13] <heycam> I think I got that bit wrong with my initial edits
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  136. # [04:18] <Hixie> i'm not sure
  137. # [04:19] <Hixie> i do know that if it's not an author script, we don't want to be setting the candidate entry script flag thing
  138. # [04:19] <Hixie> though it may not matter...
  139. # [04:19] <Hixie> i don't know
  140. # [04:19] <Hixie> sorry dude, not awake right now :-)
  141. # [04:19] <heycam> heh fair enough ;)
  142. # [04:20] * heycam has no idea what candidate entry script flag is for
  143. # [04:20] <heycam> anyway, I'll write something up and you can look at it later
  144. # [04:20] <Hixie> it sets the entry script, which is used for security
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  228. # [11:24] <MikeSmith> Hixie: what's the rationale for the http://html5.org/r/8109 change?
  229. # [11:24] <heycam> (it's also got a typo)
  230. # [11:26] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, "Requiring the Encoding Standard preferred name is too strict for no good reason" thread on whatwg?
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  232. # [11:26] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: oh thanks
  233. # [11:27] <Ms2ger> (And the aone typo is fixed)
  234. # [11:27] <MikeSmith> oK
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  236. # [11:27] * MikeSmith is way behind on reading list mail
  237. # [11:28] <MikeSmith> in other news http://html5.org/r/8108 is a pretty significant implementation change
  238. # [11:28] <MikeSmith> would be good to hear what hsivonen_ thinks of it
  239. # [11:29] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: think I should open a mozilla bug for that one?
  240. # [11:29] <MikeSmith> against the HTML parse
  241. # [11:29] <MikeSmith> *parser
  242. # [11:30] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, that would probably be good
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  246. # [11:32] <MikeSmith> ok
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  248. # [11:33] <Ms2ger> Though I believe there's a bunch of other parser changes too
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  250. # [11:36] <MikeSmith> oh?
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  252. # [11:36] <MikeSmith> ah yeah
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  254. # [11:40] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: just raised https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=901319 for the AAA change
  255. # [11:40] <Ms2ger> Thanks
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  320. # [17:05] <zewt> okay this is like the third site i've seen that tries to keep me from pasting my email address in
  321. # [17:06] <zewt> i don't know why but i'm still surprised by the imaginative ways people are complete idiots
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  339. # [18:13] <zewt> there's a fascinating one: submitting a form on a website broke because I had a newline in a textarea, with a "JSON.parse: bad control character in string literal" error
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  342. # [18:14] <zewt> so I can only guess that somebody out there is actually constructing JSON by going '"' + text + '"'
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  344. # [18:24] <gsnedders> Surprise level: 0.
  345. # [18:25] <zewt> yep. heh
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  385. # [21:11] <teoss> there must be space between doctype and html element?
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  387. # [21:15] <gsnedders> teoss: No, there's no need. But note that the DOCTYPE is the whole string, "<!doctype html>"; any html start tag must follow that.
  388. # [21:17] <teoss> yep thanks gsnedders but here I think it says I must put white space? http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/syntax.html#syntax-doctype
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  390. # [21:18] <gsnedders> teoss: No, it says nothing about what comes after the DOCTYPE, just the syntax of the DOCTYPE itself.
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  392. # [21:24] <teoss> yes sorry gsnedders I ment affter html in doctype there must be space? like this: <!doctype html > or it can like this> <!doctype html> ?
  393. # [21:25] <gsnedders> teoss: As I said, there's no html element there. And the spec says "Zero or more space characters" after the "html", so zero space characters is fine.
  394. # [21:26] <teoss> ah yes zero or more lol
  395. # [21:26] <teoss> ok thanks and sorry
  396. # [21:26] <teoss> gsnedders, can I put paragraph in paragraph?
  397. # [21:29] <gsnedders> teoss: Only in XHTML, though why do you want to?
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  412. # [22:32] * Quits: zdobersek (~zdobersek@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
  413. # [22:44] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  414. # [22:51] * Quits: Lachy_ (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
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  421. # [23:22] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  422. # [23:26] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED57922.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
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  424. # [23:33] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.218.24) (Quit: weinig)
  425. # [23:35] * Quits: barneybook (~kvirc@114-44-246-28.dynamic.hinet.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  426. # [23:36] * Joins: barneybook (~kvirc@114-44-251-170.dynamic.hinet.net)
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  430. # [23:48] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@host31-51-175-79.range31-51.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  431. # [23:53] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  432. # [23:58] * Joins: vcarbune (~vcarbune@84-74-140-149.dclient.hispeed.ch)
  433. # Session Close: Mon Aug 05 00:00:00 2013

The end :)