/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-08-17 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Aug 17 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  15. # [00:27] <MikeSmith> Hixie: question about document conformance and "script-supporting elements", per wording of the hgroup content model "One or more h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6, and script-supporting elements.", is <hgroup><script>...</script></hgroup> meant to be valid?
  16. # [00:28] <Hixie> yeah, the idea being that you might use the <script> to document.write() the h1 or whatever
  17. # [00:28] <Hixie> there's a lot of things where it's not clear exactly where the line should be drawn, that's one of them
  18. # [00:28] <MikeSmith> OK
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  20. # [00:30] <MikeSmith> and same for dl, right? I can have <dl><dt>foo<script>..</script></dl> without <dd>, right?
  21. # [00:31] <MikeSmith> but not <dl><dt>foo</dl>
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  27. # [00:44] <Hixie> MikeSmith: hm, let me check, i remember that <dl> was hard
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  29. # [00:45] <MikeSmith> ok
  30. # [00:45] <Hixie> "Zero or more groups each consisting of one or more dt elements followed by one or more dd elements, optionally intermixed with script-supporting elements."
  31. # [00:45] <Hixie> so no, if you have a <dt> you have to have a <dd>
  32. # [00:45] <Hixie> but you can have <Script> and <template>s all over the place
  33. # [00:46] <MikeSmith> OK
  34. # [00:47] <MikeSmith> Hixie: that seems inconsistent with the <hgroup> case, where the <script> or <template> can essentially be used in place of an <h1>-<h6>
  35. # [00:47] <Hixie> <dl><script></script></dl> is fine
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  38. # [00:49] <MikeSmith> OK
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  42. # [00:56] <MikeSmith> Hixie: but I note that's a different model than what you had before you made the http://html5.org/r/8022 change, "Make <script> be accepted in most places <template> is now accepted"
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  44. # [00:56] <MikeSmith> https://github.com/w3c/html/commit/e92161bbeb11d2ed1a2e3f5f45e63171f4102d83#L2L19501
  45. # [00:57] <MikeSmith> prior to that, <dl><dt>foo</dt><template></template></dl> and <dl><template></template><dd></dd></dl> were valid
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  49. # [00:59] <Hixie> MikeSmith: yeah, that was a conscious change
  50. # [01:00] <MikeSmith> ok, thanks, that's what I wanted to confirm
  51. # [01:00] <MikeSmith> I'll update the validator
  52. # [01:00] <TabAtkins> Hixie: What was the conscious behind that change?
  53. # [01:03] <Hixie> i basically ended up in a state where i was getting rid of any checks at all in <dl>
  54. # [01:03] <Hixie> and i didn't think that was useful to authors
  55. # [01:04] <Hixie> given the number of times i accidentally type <dd> instead of <dt> and so on
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  57. # [01:08] <TabAtkins> Not any checks at all, just any checks *while there's a script or template around*.
  58. # [01:08] <TabAtkins> Because you could output anything from them.
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  60. # [01:10] <Hixie> the <Script> doesn't have to be inside the <dl> for that argument to work
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  62. # [01:11] <Hixie> so i settled on a compromise, whereby the validator checks for matching groups
  63. # [01:11] <Hixie> like i said above, there's a lot of things where it's not clear exactly where the line should be drawn
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  65. # [01:14] <TabAtkins> The script does have to be in the <dl> for that argument to work *during parsing*.
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  75. # [01:34] <GPHemsley> Hixie: Maybe my new comment makes it clearer?
  76. # [01:34] * GPHemsley hopes he understands correctly
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  78. # [01:36] <GPHemsley> d'oh
  79. # [01:36] <GPHemsley> I keep typing "ancestory" instead of "ancestor"
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  125. # [04:55] <Hixie> GPHemsley: check now? https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22496
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  154. # [08:06] <Yuhong> Hixie: bug 915 makes me wonder what was happening in 1997 between the HTML WG and the CSS WG.
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  240. # [14:00] <zcorpan> Hixie: i'd expect to be able to remove a <script> element and have the document still be valid (re <hgroup><script>)
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  245. # [14:21] <GPHemsley> Hixie: That does seem a little better, but I'd like to hear what annevk has to say on the subject.
  246. # [14:22] <GPHemsley> Hixie: (I'd also prefer to have as few possessives as possible.)
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  369. # [23:15] <ball999_> does it matter which kind of elements I am using on the page for the opening speed of a page?
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  381. # Session Close: Sun Aug 18 00:00:00 2013

The end :)