/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-08-30 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Aug 30 00:00:01 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  7. # [00:09] <heycam> annevk, for what you put in http://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#api does Array differ from sequence at all?
  8. # [00:09] <heycam> (just more obvious?)
  9. # [00:09] <heycam> or is it that it's allowed to return a reference to a not-newly-created object?
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  13. # [00:30] <MikeSmith> Hixie_: about <table><input></table> Henri's parser wasn't emitting an error for it so I'd been assuming there was some reason for that, that it was intentional -- that the spec didn't require a parse error for it
  14. # [00:31] <MikeSmith> then... I actually bothered to read the spec. So I filed https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=910588 (log a parse error for <table><input></table>) & I'll send a patch there
  15. # [00:33] <MikeSmith> that thing is that when Henri's code isn't doing what I'd expect my first assumption is always that it's because I'm misunderstanding something or doing something wrong
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  25. # [00:57] <Hixie_> MikeSmith: hehe
  26. # [00:57] <Hixie_> MikeSmith: i know the feeling
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  31. # [01:05] <zewt> gar gmail's ui is stupid
  32. # [01:06] <zewt> i can't collapse hixie's 50-page reply without it also hiding the reply I'm writing to it
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  34. # [01:06] <zewt> 2px scrollbar
  35. # [01:06] <Hixie_> pine baby
  36. # [01:06] <zewt> definitely not pining for pine
  37. # [01:06] * Parts: say2joe (~say2joe@209-253-225-97.ip.mcleodusa.net)
  38. # [01:07] <MikeSmith> pine is so old school
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  40. # [01:07] <MikeSmith> mutt is what everybody's using these days
  41. # [01:10] <hober> gnus 4 eva
  42. # [01:10] <Hixie_> i could never figure gnus out
  43. # [01:11] <Hixie_> would make my life way easier given that i do everything else in emacs
  44. # [01:14] <MikeSmith> hober and howcome are keeping gnus alive
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  46. # [01:16] <zewt> what exactly happened to the idea of spammers being blacklisted
  47. # [01:16] <zewt> at some point spamming openly became "okay" and nobody asked me
  48. # [01:17] <MikeSmith> zewt: sounds like a job for Peter Swire
  49. # [01:18] <MikeSmith> Hixie_: if you hit yourself on the head with a brick first, gnus starts to make more sense
  50. # [01:19] <MikeSmith> oh wait sorry I guess that's the general strategy for using emacs
  51. # [01:19] <Hixie_> zewt: it did?
  52. # [01:19] <Hixie_> spamming whom where?
  53. # [01:19] <zewt> on the internet
  54. # [01:19] <Hixie_> i don't understand what you think changed
  55. # [01:21] <zewt> marketing departments somehow convinced the world that "this person gave us his email address for transactional mails in order to complete a purchase" == "we can send commercials to this email address"
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  57. # [01:25] <Hixie_> you're clearly transacting with the wrong merchants.
  58. # [01:25] <zewt> that would be "all merchants" these days :(
  59. # [01:25] <Hixie_> not the ones i use...
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  66. # [01:36] <heycam> TabAtkins, are those section links in the margin css-variables positioned using ems? I wonder if it would look better with a fixed distance from the title of the section
  67. # [01:36] <TabAtkins> Yes they are, and yes, I thought that too. I hadn't gotten around to it yet.
  68. # [01:36] <heycam> :)
  69. # [01:36] <TabAtkins> Gonna move 'em with rems I guess.
  70. # [01:36] <heycam> yeah that's what I was thinking
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  72. # [01:36] <heycam> the line-height (I guess?) also makes their yellow background look a bit big
  73. # [01:36] <heycam> not sure what you can do about that, while keeping them baseline aligned with the text of the section, though
  74. # [01:36] <heycam> *text of the section title
  75. # [01:37] <TabAtkins> I tried to make the clickable area sufficiently large. That does make it look a little weird.
  76. # [01:37] <TabAtkins> Maybe I can just make the line-height bigger?
  77. # [01:37] <TabAtkins> I need to experiment.
  78. # [01:37] <heycam> interestingly, the Chinese-style angle quotes used around tokens are shown as full width characters in Chrome, but narrowly in Firefox
  79. # [01:37] <heycam> (the latter looks nicer)
  80. # [01:38] <TabAtkins> They look very similar to me on Linux.
  81. # [01:38] <heycam> wonder if a different font is being selected
  82. # [01:38] <heycam> anyway
  83. # [01:38] <heycam> now that we have variables, I want a CSS function that can be used to do operations on colours
  84. # [01:38] <TabAtkins> Yeah, must be. I get ugly full-width on one of my machines, in some context.
  85. # [01:38] <heycam> so I can hue rotate, desaturate, etc. based on a variable value
  86. # [01:38] * Parts: a-ja (~Instantbi@70.230.160.121)
  87. # [01:39] <TabAtkins> What do you take me for, an amateur? http://tabatkins.github.io/specs/css-color/Overview.html#modifying-colors
  88. # [01:39] <heycam> I was thinking we could use the filter function values
  89. # [01:39] <TabAtkins> Got approved to go to ED yesterday.
  90. # [01:39] <heycam> oh there you go ;)
  91. # [01:52] <MikeSmith> TabAtkins: you need approval to make an ED?
  92. # [01:52] <TabAtkins> MikeSmith: To actually make a work item for the CSSWG, in the CSSWG's part of the w3 url namespace? Yes, by convention.
  93. # [01:53] <TabAtkins> I put "personal" EDs off in my github due to this.
  94. # [01:53] <TabAtkins> This is partially a result of CSS editors always pointing people to look at our ED repo - anything in there is assumed to be "real".
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  96. # [01:55] <MikeSmith> ok
  97. # [01:56] <Hixie_> do we have anything in any spec that prevents scripts in inactive documents from running? e.g. when nodes in inactive documents receive events?
  98. # [01:56] <Hixie_> queued tasks don't fire because tasks get delayed, but that doesn't help with dispatchEvent()...
  99. # [01:57] <Hixie_> annevk?
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  196. # [09:14] <MrTango> hi, i will add new DC-Tags like DC.format and DC.type which are widely used in CMS Plone, can anyone create me an account http://wiki.whatwg.org with the username MrTango please?
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  199. # [09:18] <annevk> heycam|away: ah yeah, it's just a return value so sequence could work I suppose
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  201. # [09:18] <annevk> heycam|away: but yeah, I think we should make it more obvious how this works
  202. # [09:18] <annevk> heycam|away: because the current situation is too confusing
  203. # [09:20] <annevk> Hixie_: not that I know
  204. # [09:21] <annevk> Oh you filed a bug
  205. # [09:21] <annevk> MrTango: I can help you out I guess
  206. # [09:23] <annevk> MrTango: I need an email for that though
  207. # [09:23] <MrTango> annevk: md@derico.de
  208. # [09:24] <annevk> "A randomly generated password for MrTango has been sent to md@derico.de."
  209. # [09:25] <MrTango> annevk: thank you
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  222. # [10:06] <zcorpan> jgraham: should this review be dropped? https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/showcomment?chain=393
  223. # [10:09] <Ms2ger> jgraham, how much of a review do you want for the html5lib update?
  224. # [10:10] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: "This style sheet could be used by an implementation as part of its default styling of HTML4, XHTML1, XHTML1.1, XHTML Basic, and other XHTML Family documents." http://tabatkins.github.io/specs/css-color/Overview.html#sample
  225. # [10:10] <zcorpan> 2003 called and wants its XHTML Family members back
  226. # [10:12] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: also the stylesheet doesn't match what's in HTML's rendering section. maybe drop that section altogether?
  227. # [10:15] * Joins: zkis (~zkis@173.243.45.74)
  228. # [10:16] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: wonder if we should spec what the system colors map to
  229. # [10:21] <wilhelm_> I have just encountered RDF in the Real World for the first time. I expected it to be bad, but, oh, $deity, please get me away from here.
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  233. # [10:34] <hsivonen> wilhelm_: What was the context?
  234. # [10:38] <Ms2ger> People here might be interested in http://mozilla.pettay.fi/workerconsole/ too
  235. # [10:40] <wilhelm_> hsivonen: My customer (which is the Norwegian equivalent of Encyclopedica Britannica) is importing a corpus from a different publisher. Our stuff is HTML in an SQL database. Theirs involves RDF, SPARQL and everything else you can think of from that house of horrors.
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  237. # [10:41] <hsivonen> wilhelm_: nice
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  239. # [10:49] <SimonSapin> zcorpan, TabAtkins: spec’ing reasonable defaults for system colors: yes please
  240. # [10:50] <zcorpan> SimonSapin: has anyone documented what they map to on different systems?
  241. # [10:51] <SimonSapin> zcorpan: I think that "current browsers" implement it for real: ask the system for colors from the user’s theme
  242. # [10:51] <SimonSapin> but I don’t really want to bother, in Servo
  243. # [10:52] <zcorpan> SimonSapin: yes. my question stands :-)
  244. # [10:53] <SimonSapin> oh, what they map
  245. # [10:53] <SimonSapin> I was thinking of a "name -> color" map
  246. # [10:53] <jgraham> zcorpan: I don't know. I think Aryeh should decide if there is anything he wants to salvage
  247. # [10:54] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Not too much I think
  248. # [10:54] <jgraham> I wouldn't review the generated files (which is why they are in their own commit)
  249. # [10:54] <annevk> zcorpan: should be pretty easy to generate this map
  250. # [10:54] <jgraham> Feel free to review the update code, but it's pretty ugly and probably not worth spending time on small issues
  251. # [10:55] <zcorpan> annevk: yeah, my problem is just that i don't have different systems. but thinking about it there are browser screenshot services to solve that
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  254. # [10:57] <Ms2ger> jgraham, heh, namespaces
  255. # [10:57] <Ms2ger> jgraham, how about you fix the trailing whitespace and I claim I've reviewed it all?
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  257. # [10:58] <annevk> zcorpan: I can get you Windows (7 I think) and Mac OS X
  258. # [10:59] <zcorpan> annevk: i have those
  259. # [10:59] <annevk> zcorpan: can also crowdsource if you can figure out some way to communicate back in 140 chars
  260. # [11:02] <zcorpan> a color is 24 bits... there are 28 system colors...
  261. # [11:02] <hsivonen> annevk: Crowdsourcing hasn't worked for me in the case of trying to find a twitter follower who runs the Greek version of Windows or the Welsh version of Windows. :-(
  262. # [11:03] <annevk> zcorpan: you have 140 Unicode scalar values even, seems like it ought to be doable
  263. # [11:03] <zcorpan> annevk: 96 ascii chars seems like it could encode the data
  264. # [11:03] <annevk> hsivonen: hmm yeah, localization is harder
  265. # [11:03] <zcorpan> not printable ascii though
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  268. # [11:05] <SimonSapin> The thing with system colors is that there is not just one set of them per OS, they also change when the users change the desktop "theme"
  269. # [11:06] <zcorpan> SimonSapin: yeah, but if we're going to spec a fixed set of colors, the default themes seems like what we should care about
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  271. # [11:07] <SimonSapin> zcorpan: or just pick one default set, regardless of OS
  272. # [11:07] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Sounds like it could work to me :)
  273. # [11:07] <SimonSapin> Tab’s draft suggest white for background-ish system colors, black for the rest
  274. # [11:08] <SimonSapin> all that matters is keeping things readable in legacy content
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  276. # [11:08] <zcorpan> SimonSapin: yes. i'm trying to figure out what the set should be. just black/white seems unnecessarily boring
  277. # [11:09] <SimonSapin> fair enough
  278. # [11:11] <zcorpan> turns out grepping for system colors in webdevdata is a good way to fill up the hard drive (not from matches but from memory usage)
  279. # [11:12] <SimonSapin> gecko’s implementation is in mozilla-central/widget/*/*LookAndFeel*
  280. # [11:17] <jgraham> hsivonen: I wouldn't be surprised if the total number of users of the welsh version of windows is in the thousands
  281. # [11:17] <jgraham> So you owuld need a big crowd
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  283. # [11:20] <jgraham> (it seems that there are about half a million Welsh speakers in total, so it could be higher. But very few of those don't also speak English and I imagine there isn't much Welsh-localised software so it is probably easier to have English everywhere than a mix)
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  288. # [11:30] <zcorpan> SimonSapin: annevk: http://www.browserstack.com/screenshots/67610195dac7cc4cb12206dd2589f08b3d0a7c02
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  292. # [11:35] <annevk> zcorpan: now all you need is wget plus OCR
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  294. # [11:36] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Updated
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  297. # [11:46] <zcorpan> looks like iOS and Android have the same colors
  298. # [11:46] <zcorpan> that by itself seems like a reasonable candidate
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  313. # [12:15] <matjas> annevk, zcorpan: as for crowdsourcing, maybe you could use Browserscope? (see <iframe> here: http://mathiasbynens.be/demo/xhr-responsetype)
  314. # [12:16] <matjas> browserscope requires the results to be normalized to numbers, but that’s not a problem in this case :)
  315. # [12:16] <zcorpan> matjas: interesting
  316. # [12:16] <matjas> just create an HTML page like that, tweet the link, and watch the results flow in
  317. # [12:17] <zcorpan> matjas: i think i have enough data already, but feel free to gather more if you like
  318. # [12:17] <annevk> if we map locale to a number...
  319. # [12:18] <annevk> and encoding too I suppose
  320. # [12:18] <zcorpan> matjas: also, does it differentiate OSes or just browser versions?
  321. # [12:18] <matjas> just browser versions afaik
  322. # [12:19] <matjas> a Browserscope clone that accounts for OS diffs would be neat
  323. # [12:26] <zcorpan> sent http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Aug/0667.html
  324. # [12:27] <annevk> oh, so that wouldn't even work for what I had in mind
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  334. # [13:05] <annevk> aah
  335. # [13:05] <annevk> "ZIP – a base version of this data compression and archive file format is in the public domain, but newer versions have some patented features[13][14][15]"
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  337. # [13:08] <MikeSmith> that doesn't sound good
  338. # [13:12] <annevk> It seems that's related to encryption, which we won't have.
  339. # [13:12] <annevk> In fact, from reading it seems the zip format we care about is in the public domain so we can do whatever we want.
  340. # [13:13] <annevk> Not sure I'm keen on defining it though.
  341. # [13:15] <jgraham> annevk: Probably should have chosen a different career then :)
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  343. # [13:17] <MikeSmith> well Tracking Protection WG needs a chair
  344. # [13:17] <MikeSmith> that'd be a nice career change
  345. # [13:19] <MikeSmith> I can't find an html5lib test for the plain case of <table><input></table>
  346. # [13:19] <MikeSmith> that is, without the "hidden" attribute
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  348. # [13:19] <annevk> MikeSmith: you mean type=hidden?
  349. # [13:19] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, add one!
  350. # [13:19] <MikeSmith> ah yeah that I mean
  351. # [13:19] <annevk> MikeSmith: also, don't wanna get demoted
  352. # [13:19] <MikeSmith> hah
  353. # [13:20] <MikeSmith> that job is just a stepping stone man
  354. # [13:20] <MikeSmith> nobody takes that job for the job itself
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  356. # [13:21] <MikeSmith> is the track it provides to other jobs
  357. # [13:21] <Ms2ger> The tracking, if you will
  358. # [13:21] <MikeSmith> yeah, like that
  359. # [13:22] <MikeSmith> you take the job and then who knows your might be moved up to CSS WG chair next
  360. # [13:22] <MikeSmith> and then Web Foundation CEO maybe
  361. # [13:29] <annevk> Does "utf-8 bomless decode" make sense? Or should it be "utf-8 BOM-less decode"?
  362. # [13:29] <annevk> I guess the latter
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  364. # [13:29] <SimonSapin> annevk: the latter looks better
  365. # [13:30] <annevk> Not to me :)
  366. # [13:30] <annevk> But we haven't really introduced bom as a noun so I guess...
  367. # [13:31] <annevk> On the other hand, you might as well just use the utf-8 encoder directly in that case, that's shorter :)
  368. # [13:31] <SimonSapin> annevk: and while you’re at it, it would be nice to avoid similar names like decode vs decoder for different concepts :)
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  370. # [13:32] <annevk> Not constructive enough for me to care, sorry
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  372. # [13:36] <jgraham> "the bom" -> sounds like a noun to me
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  374. # [13:41] <SimonSapin> annevk: uhg. ok. Let’s try more constructive. The "encode" concept does nothing but call an encoding’s encoder, I’m not convinced it’s worth keeping at all. "decode" looks for a BOM, then calls an encoding’decoder. I (and I believe other people) have been confused before by the similarity in the name. Perhaps this could be fixed by renaming "decode" to "BOM-decode" or something more specific, or
  375. # [13:41] <SimonSapin> even split the bom detection from the actual decoding.
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  393. # [14:39] <annevk> SimonSapin: this is that split
  394. # [14:39] <annevk> SimonSapin: the idea of this section was to have an API-layer between specs and the encoder/decoders
  395. # [14:39] <annevk> SimonSapin: however, it hasn't completely materialized yet what the details of that layer should be
  396. # [14:39] <SimonSapin> annevk: I mean having something like "detect the encoding" that return an encoding
  397. # [14:40] <jgraham> Any opinions on https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/showcomment?chain=424?
  398. # [14:40] <annevk> SimonSapin: seems like that would be horrible misunderstood and would also get the precedent order wrong
  399. # [14:40] <SimonSapin> yeah, I agree
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  404. # [14:48] <annevk> jgraham: seems okay given that testing the tokenizer separately is really an implementation-specific thing
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  415. # [15:08] <annevk> SimonSapin: if you have time at some point we could go through thinking about how to restructure the Encoding Standard
  416. # [15:11] <SimonSapin> annevk: later today?
  417. # [15:11] <annevk> SimonSapin: sure
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  420. # [15:13] <jgraham> annevk: Yeah, but in this case the tests would be "treebuilder" tests, just using the html5lib tokenizer tests as a source of "interesting" trees
  421. # [15:13] <jgraham> Or interesting inputs, rather
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  423. # [15:17] <annevk> jgraham: in that case...
  424. # [15:17] <annevk> jgraham: can't you convert them to the other format then?
  425. # [15:17] <annevk> jgraham: and remove dupes
  426. # [15:19] <jgraham> I did at some point. But it rather relies on html5lib as a reference implementation.
  427. # [15:19] <jgraham> Seems like the tokenizertotree code still exists, so maybe I should just do it
  428. # [15:21] <annevk> I relied on url.js when generating URL tests...
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  431. # [15:33] <annevk> Domenic_: will you post consensus check or should I?
  432. # [15:33] <Domenic_> annevk: I got it
  433. # [15:33] <annevk> Domenic_: I'd kinda prefer a cc to public-script-coord and www-dom
  434. # [15:33] <annevk> Domenic_: to catch any implementers
  435. # [15:33] <Domenic_> annevk: ok, sure. if you'd rather write it up that's fine too
  436. # [15:34] <annevk> Domenic_: nah, you should take credit, was just offering in case you were busy
  437. # [15:37] <annevk> Domenic_: http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%3Cscript%3Ew%28PromiseResolver%29%3C%2Fscript%3E ...
  438. # [15:37] <annevk> Domenic_: but yeah, that can go away
  439. # [15:40] <Domenic_> annevk: not sure what i should be seeing there; PromiseResolver is not defined (but I'm only running FF 23)
  440. # [15:42] <annevk> Domenic_: ah, gotta run non-beta/non-stable I think
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  445. # [15:49] <annevk> Domenic_: not sure if I told you, but I also put this proposal on the TC39 agenda; kinda crappy they operate that way, but so be it; hoping it's more or less settled before than though
  446. # [15:49] <Domenic_> annevk: yeah i saw that. I think I'll actually be able to make that meeting since it's in Boston.
  447. # [15:49] <Domenic_> (I'm in NYC)
  448. # [15:49] <annevk> Domenic_: oh that'd be nice
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  450. # [15:49] <annevk> Domenic_: you gonna be at Edge?
  451. # [15:50] <Domenic_> annevk: Don't think so? What's Edge?
  452. # [15:50] <annevk> Domenic_: conf in NY
  453. # [15:50] <annevk> Domenic_: Monday after TC39
  454. # [15:50] <annevk> Domenic_: http://edgeconf.com/
  455. # [15:50] <annevk> Domenic_: 100 USD, seems they might have a couple of seats left
  456. # [15:51] <Domenic_> annevk: hmm seems fun, might be able to beg another day off work for it.
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  458. # [15:55] <annevk> Domenic_: thanks for that email
  459. # [15:56] <Domenic_> annevk: np
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  480. # [16:44] <Domenic_> lol mark way to make things way more confusing with your second paragraph haha
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  484. # [16:48] <annevk> "Note that this turns the common use case on its head." o_O
  485. # [16:48] <annevk> Did we email this at the wrong time or something?
  486. # [16:52] <annevk> I'm the 1%: https://twitter.com/dontcallmeDOM/status/373444615199682560
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  507. # [18:02] <SimonSapin> annevk: ping
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  547. # [19:31] <Ms2ger> r? https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/294
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  561. # [20:07] <rniwa> annevk: yt?
  562. # [20:07] <annevk> rniwa: for a bit
  563. # [20:07] <rniwa> annevk: do you know if xhr's response supposed to keep the same document or not
  564. # [20:07] <rniwa> annevk: when the type is a document?
  565. # [20:07] <annevk> rniwa: yeah is
  566. # [20:08] <rniwa> annevk: okay
  567. # [20:08] <rniwa> annevk: which part of the spec says that?
  568. # [20:08] <annevk> rniwa: http://xhr.spec.whatwg.org/#document-response-entity-body
  569. # [20:08] <rniwa> annevk: it doesn't say to use the same document...
  570. # [20:09] <annevk> rniwa: it says to return the response entity body, and only if that has no value are you allowed to create a new one
  571. # [20:09] <annevk> document response entity body*
  572. # [20:10] <rniwa> annevk: ah, now i see it
  573. # [20:10] <rniwa> annevk: thanks
  574. # [20:10] <annevk> I should more properly reset it though :/
  575. # [20:10] <annevk> I'll file a bug on doing that
  576. # [20:11] <annevk> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23102
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  580. # [20:16] <TabAtkins> Do Event names have to be unique, or just unique to the interfaces that can see them?
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  582. # [20:16] * TabAtkins is wondering whether Bikeshed needs to consider <dfn event> to be a type that requires a for='' attribute.
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  586. # [20:19] <Ms2ger> TabAtkins, event types are not constrained
  587. # [20:20] <TabAtkins> Ms2ger: What does that mean in the context of my question?
  588. # [20:20] <Ms2ger> I'm not sure
  589. # [20:20] <TabAtkins> Heh, kk.
  590. # [20:20] <Ms2ger> I don't understand your question
  591. # [20:21] <Ms2ger> What are Event names?
  592. # [20:21] <TabAtkins> Yeah, thought so. Let me rephrase.
  593. # [20:22] <TabAtkins> Bikeshed/Shepherd parse specs for definitions, and categorize them across types. The hope is that, most of the time, just specifying what you want to link to, and what type it is, should be enough to uniquely identify the right link target.
  594. # [20:22] <TabAtkins> Some types are roughly a global namespace, so that's good. Others aren't, like property values, so their definitions additionally get a for='' attribute specifying what they're for (the thing they're for is hopefully global).
  595. # [20:23] <TabAtkins> When I'm wrapping an event name in a <dfn>, do I need a for='' or equivalent?
  596. # [20:23] <Ms2ger> What is an event name?
  597. # [20:23] <Ms2ger> And why do you have a dfn for it?
  598. # [20:24] <Ms2ger> If you want to fire an event, you say "fire an event named 'x'"
  599. # [20:24] <TabAtkins> Oh wait, duh, I just answered my own question. Yes, I need a for='', to point to the relevant event interface. Names are global *when constrained to a relevant interface*.
  600. # [20:24] <TabAtkins> Right, but you still want a place where there's a canonical definition of what a given event is *for*.
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  602. # [20:26] <Ms2ger> jgraham, https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/248 doesn't seem to have a critic review?
  603. # [20:26] <annevk> TabAtkins: load is used in incompatible ways, often with the same interface
  604. # [20:27] <annevk> TabAtkins: same for readystatechange
  605. # [20:27] <TabAtkins> annevk: Oh, hrm.
  606. # [20:27] <TabAtkins> Annoying, then.
  607. # [20:27] <annevk> TabAtkins: events are not really defined as such though
  608. # [20:27] <annevk> TabAtkins: events follow from an algorithm that dispatches them
  609. # [20:27] <annevk> TabAtkins: the original DOM series about Events distracted people by making them appear different
  610. # [20:28] <TabAtkins> Perhaps they're unique when constrained to a given event target?
  611. # [20:29] <TabAtkins> The issue is, Anne, that I want it to be easy to tell the difference between, say, "readystatechange" when fired for different types of algorithms, so you can link to that particular usage.
  612. # [20:30] <TabAtkins> At least, I *think* that's a reasonable thing to want to do. Is it?
  613. # [20:32] <TabAtkins> On a related note, should I kill CSSFontFaceLoadEvent, or is that a reasonable thing to do? What's the current thinking on how to do events?
  614. # [20:32] <annevk> Yeah, I think event names are generally unique per target.
  615. # [20:33] <annevk> I think events are still okay, we just haven't needed them much for a lot of new stuff... With regards to fonts. It seems people want explicit control over fonts in JavaScript.
  616. # [20:33] <annevk> With fonts as first-class primitives.
  617. # [20:34] <TabAtkins> Yes, I'm reworking the spec right now, but starting with the load events.
  618. # [20:34] <TabAtkins> I need to come up with something that'll work in Workers, though.
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  620. # [20:35] <TabAtkins> Which probably means coming up with a first-class Font object, yeah.
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  623. # [20:39] <annevk> I recommend starting with the primitive. And adding the event for "all fonts are here" later. No need to solve all the use cases at once.
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  627. # [20:43] <annevk> zewt: if you could add why you think APPNOTE.TXT is not an option on http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Zip that'd be nice
  628. # [20:43] <annevk> zewt: would be good to have that documented somewhere
  629. # [20:44] <annevk> zewt: especially given how many other standards bodies didn't seem to care
  630. # [20:46] <Ms2ger> jgraham, r? https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/216
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  632. # [20:53] <zewt> annevk: i hope we care
  633. # [20:54] <zewt> i didn't even know I had an account on this wiki, but apparently Firefox remembered
  634. # [20:54] <annevk> zewt: we'll see, I'm not too interested in working on it
  635. # [20:54] <zewt> i don't blame you for that, heh
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  637. # [21:08] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Don't know what happened there
  638. # [21:09] <jgraham> Ms2ger: I will tey to look at the review, but internet access might be spotty
  639. # [21:10] <Ms2ger> jgraham, thanks
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  696. # [23:29] <miketaylr> back
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  711. # [23:52] <TabAtkins> annevk: I already have strong use-cases for "tell me when X font is loaded", "tell me when all fonts are loaded", "load this font", and "tell me if X font is already loaded".
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  715. # [23:57] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: Speak to the pdf.js guys, they have a fair few requirements.
  716. # [23:57] <gsnedders> And ugly hacks.
  717. # [23:57] <TabAtkins> Heh, yeah.
  718. # [23:58] <TabAtkins> I'm guessing similar reqs to the Google Docs people, as they're doing similar types of things.
  719. # [23:58] <TabAtkins> Though I guess the PDF.js people are loading up fonts from the binaries.
  720. # [23:58] <gsnedders> Yup.
  721. # [23:59] <TabAtkins> that would be interesting. Constructor takes a CSSFontFaceRule, or a string-url, or a TypedArray, maybe.
  722. # Session Close: Sat Aug 31 00:00:00 2013

The end :)