/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-09-10 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Sep 10 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  18. # [00:39] <jwalden> is data:text/html;charset=UTF-8,<script>onerror=function(){alert('hi")};</script><script>var%20function;</script> supposed to alert, or no? I think yes, if I'm reading the spec right, but Gecko at least doesn't right now
  19. # [00:40] <Hixie_> why would it not?
  20. # [00:40] <Hixie_> it's a syntax error, no?
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  22. # [00:41] <Hixie_> are you trying to establish if it's a JS error, or if it's reported at the HTML level? :-)
  23. # [00:41] <Hixie_> note that 'hi" isn't valid
  24. # [00:41] <jwalden> it wasn't/isn't clear to me that the onerror hook should necessarily be triggered for syntax errors in scripts
  25. # [00:41] <jwalden> er, ugh
  26. # [00:41] <Hixie_> so i'm assuming your real test doesn't have that
  27. # [00:41] <jwalden> no, that was my real test :-)
  28. # [00:41] <Hixie_> ah
  29. # [00:41] <jwalden> explains things :-)
  30. # [00:41] <Hixie_> well then
  31. # [00:41] <Hixie_> i don't expect an alert :-)
  32. # [00:41] <Hixie_> several console messages though
  33. # [00:41] <jwalden> erm
  34. # [00:42] <jwalden> no, I get alert("hi") with that typo-fix
  35. # [00:42] <jwalden> data:text/html;charset=UTF-8,<script>onerror=function(){alert("hi")};</script><script>var%20delete;</script> for people following logs
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  37. # [00:43] <Hixie_> yeah that should alert
  38. # [00:43] <jwalden> okay, this might be handy-ish then
  39. # [00:43] <jwalden> well
  40. # [00:43] <jwalden> handy *if* Gecko exposed the error object that was thrown
  41. # [00:43] <jwalden> which it doesn't
  42. # [00:44] <jwalden> or at least I remember strong complaints about it not doing so
  43. # [00:44] <Hixie_> the spec just changed to expose it
  44. # [00:44] <Hixie_> but that's new
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  46. # [00:44] <jwalden> yeah
  47. # [00:45] <jwalden> (this use wouldn't care about CORS concerns, to be completely clear, so .error should always be there)
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  49. # [00:56] <zcorpan> jwalden: why would it not care about CORS concerns? (what do you mean by that?)
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  58. # [01:09] <jwalden> zcorpan: onerror fires with non-interesting error data ("muted errors") if "the script came from a resource that was fetched in the steps above, and the resource was CORS-cross-origin" per http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/scripting-1.html#execute-the-script-block 2.6.
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  89. # [01:44] <Hixie_> hmm. so the high density stuff in canvas failed because people create canvases today expecting a 1:1 mapping.
  90. # [01:44] <Hixie_> i wonder if we can still provide a 1:n mapping if we just have a setting in the getContext call for it
  91. # [01:44] <Hixie_> e.g. a 'density' option, valid values being '1:1' and 'native'
  92. # [01:45] <Hixie_> and if it's native we can also just blow away the canvas when you zoom and fire an event letting you know you'd better repaint now
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  138. # [04:55] <ghena1986> http://bit.ly/183GBEv
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  148. # [05:56] <cabanier> Hixie_: I don't think adding auto-resizing helps
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  152. # [06:30] <Hixie_> cabanier: you don't think it helps with what?
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  154. # [06:31] <cabanier> Hixie_: helping authors deal with HiDPI canvas
  155. # [06:31] <Hixie_> the idea is to help them not have to even think about it
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  157. # [06:32] <cabanier> Hixie_: that would be nice but since many use temporary canvases, just changing the one in the DOM won't do
  158. # [06:33] <Hixie_> hmmm... interesting point
  159. # [06:33] <Hixie_> (that's maybe what you should have led with, rather than just "i don't think it helps" :-P )
  160. # [06:33] * diffalot is now known as diffalot-away
  161. # [06:33] <Hixie_> we'd need a kind of "slave" mechanism
  162. # [06:33] <cabanier> Hixie_: what is that?
  163. # [06:34] <Hixie_> a way to say "this canvas is a slave of that one, wipe it and resize it accordingly when the other one gets resized"
  164. # [06:35] <cabanier> Hixie_: *thinking*
  165. # [06:37] <cabanier> Hixie_: I can see how that would help for certain scenarios, but there will be cases where you'd have to do it manually
  166. # [06:37] <Hixie_> sure, i said that in one of the e-mails
  167. # [06:37] <Hixie_> there's always going to be people who want crazy stuff
  168. # [06:38] <Hixie_> nobody's talking of removing anything that they can already do
  169. # [06:39] <cabanier> I
  170. # [06:40] <cabanier> I'd really want there to be a way for pinch-zoom to influence the dpi
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  172. # [06:40] <Hixie_> why?
  173. # [06:40] <Hixie_> (not saying it's a bad idea, just curious as to your use case)
  174. # [06:41] <cabanier> well, as you zoom in, the canvas pixels just get blockier
  175. # [06:42] <cabanier> you'd have to write JS to deal with zooming
  176. # [06:42] <Hixie_> browsers don't let you pinch-zoom to more than 1 in-page CSS pixel per display CSS pixel, do they?
  177. # [06:42] <Hixie_> the idea is that JS can't see pinch zooming at all
  178. # [06:42] <cabanier> yeah
  179. # [06:42] <Hixie_> i'm confused
  180. # [06:43] <cabanier> you have to write JS to avoid blockiness in canvas if you pinch-zoom
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  183. # [06:43] <cabanier> pinch-zoom does not affect the devicepixelratio
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  186. # [06:46] <cabanier> your proposal deals with changes in devicePixelRatio and change in CSS pixels
  187. # [06:46] <cabanier> but not with pinch zoom
  188. # [06:47] <cabanier> - maybe we're miscommunicating wrt 'page zoom' -
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  193. # [06:49] <Hixie_> "you have to write JS to avoid blockiness in canvas if you pinch-zoom" is false, as far as i can tell.
  194. # [06:50] * diffalot is now known as diffalot-away
  195. # [06:50] <cabanier> ?
  196. # [06:50] <cabanier> it's like zooming into an image.
  197. # [06:50] <Hixie_> <Hixie> browsers don't let you pinch-zoom to more than 1 in-page CSS pixel per display CSS pixel, do they?
  198. # [06:50] <cabanier> unsure
  199. # [06:51] <Hixie_> well if my statement is true, your statement is false
  200. # [06:51] <Hixie_> so if you're unsure about my statement, how can you be sure about yours :-)
  201. # [06:51] <cabanier> but you can have a lot of display pixels per CSS pixel
  202. # [06:52] <cabanier> so a 10x10 px canvas can fill the whole screen
  203. # [06:52] <Hixie_> not via pinch-zoom, though, right?
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  205. # [06:52] <Hixie_> (assuming you're not articifically making it bigger than it should be)
  206. # [06:53] <Hixie_> maybe this conversation would be easier if we had a concrete example
  207. # [06:53] <cabanier> yes. pinch-zoom makes it bigger
  208. # [06:53] <Hixie_> can you put a test up i can test?
  209. # [06:53] <Hixie_> showing what you mean?
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  211. # [06:53] <cabanier> sure. you will need a device that can pinch zoom
  212. # [06:53] <Hixie_> i am surrounded by them
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  215. # [06:56] <Domenic_> i am pretty sure i can pinch zoom very far on most web pages, such that only a few words fit on the screen
  216. # [06:56] <cabanier> try https://developer.mozilla.org/samples/canvas-tutorial/2_4_canvas_arc.html and zoom in on the canvas in the top left
  217. # [06:57] <cabanier> Domenic_: yes, and as you zoom in, everything is rerendered so it stays sharp
  218. # [06:57] <cabanier> except images and canvas
  219. # [06:57] <Domenic_> right
  220. # [06:58] <Domenic_> i imagine if my font-size is 12px, by the time i zoom in very far, it's way more than 12px in size.
  221. # [06:58] <cabanier> Hixie_: in your mail: "when the display density changes size (e.g. due to page zoom)"
  222. # [06:58] <cabanier> Hixie_: did you mean pinch zoom, or pixelratio?
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  225. # [06:59] <Hixie_> cabanier: i mean page zoom. command+/command- or ctrl+mousewheel or whatever.
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  227. # [06:59] <cabanier> Hixie_: ah, OK so we're on the same page
  228. # [07:01] <Hixie_> ah, interesting, yeah, you can pinch-zoom to more than 100%
  229. # [07:01] <Hixie_> crazy
  230. # [07:01] <Hixie_> ok
  231. # [07:01] <Hixie_> well in that case we should just handle that the same way as page zoom.
  232. # [07:01] <Hixie_> and it should affect the device pixel ratio.
  233. # [07:01] <Hixie_> same as page zoom.
  234. # [07:01] <cabanier> no, it shouldn't :-(
  235. # [07:02] <cabanier> changing dpr would change the layout of the page
  236. # [07:02] <cabanier> which is not allowed to happen for pinch zoom
  237. # [07:02] <Hixie_> what?
  238. # [07:03] <Hixie_> changing the device pixel ratio doesn't affect the layout of the page.
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  240. # [07:03] <Hixie_> (unless it also affects the width at the same time, as page zoom does)
  241. # [07:03] <Hixie_> (but then that's the width being changed that is affecting the layout)
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  243. # [07:05] <cabanier> Hixie_: doing command +/- will cause reflow of text
  244. # [07:06] <cabanier> Hixie_: inline boxes will move
  245. # [07:06] <Hixie_> sure, because the page width is changing (in CSS pixels)
  246. # [07:06] <Hixie_> pinch zoom doesn't affect the page width.
  247. # [07:06] <cabanier> Hixie_: percentages stay the same, but boxes in CSS pixels will change size
  248. # [07:06] <cabanier> correct, pinch zoom does not affect anything today
  249. # [07:07] <Hixie_> well it affects the real device pixel ratio, it just doesn't get reported as doing so
  250. # [07:07] <cabanier> yes, that's true :-)
  251. # [07:08] <cabanier> it would be nice if one could find out about the real dpr
  252. # [07:08] <cabanier> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/995914/catch-browsers-zoom-event-in-javascript
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  256. # [07:09] <cabanier> scratch that link, it's page zoom
  257. # [07:12] <cabanier> * going to bed *
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  306. # [08:37] <hsivonen> has MS removed IE7 from Windows Update?
  307. # [08:38] <hsivonen> Windows Update doesn't offer it for me (on XP) when I have IE8 blocked using the command-line IE8 blocker
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  367. # [10:45] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: about [[I didn't want a keyword for "Indicates that a test case for this bug is included somewhere in the bug report.", I wanted one for "has a test in the test suite"]], yeah, understood
  368. # [10:45] <MikeSmith> so I can change the description
  369. # [10:45] <Ms2ger> That would be nice
  370. # [10:45] <MikeSmith> I'm happy to change the keyword too if you want
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  372. # [10:46] <Ms2ger> Maybe that would be good... Either way
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  376. # [10:53] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: OK https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/describekeywords.cgi now updated with testcase-wanted="Indicates that this bug needs a test case in the test suite." and testcase="Indicates that this bug has a test case in the test suite."
  377. # [10:53] <Ms2ger> Thanks!
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  379. # [10:54] <MikeSmith> I can change "testcase" to testcase-has or testcase-done or .. something
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  381. # [10:55] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: or has-testcase and needs-testcase (instead of testcase-wanted)
  382. # [10:56] <Ms2ger> Those would work
  383. # [10:57] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: if you're around I wanted to ask if you could be the reviewer for web-platform-tests/conformance-checkers tests
  384. # [10:58] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: OK, changeed to has-testcase and needs-testcase https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/describekeywords.cgi
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  387. # [11:00] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: if it's OK with you, this week I can change the validator build script to pull from the github repos instead of bitbucket
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  391. # [11:02] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, much appreciated
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  731. # [11:25] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: sure
  732. # [11:25] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: OK, thanks
  733. # [11:26] <zcorpan> my critic filter is "/" so i should get emails for everything. not that i keep up, but...
  734. # [11:26] <MikeSmith> OK
  735. # [11:26] <MikeSmith> now I have a question for anybody about media-query syntax
  736. # [11:27] <MikeSmith> is "@media screen and (min-width: 400px) and(max-width: 600px) {}
  737. # [11:27] <MikeSmith> valid?
  738. # [11:27] <MikeSmith> is @media screen and (min-width: 400px)and (max-width: 600px) {} ?
  739. # [11:27] <MikeSmith> I mean the lack of whitespace around "and"
  740. # [11:30] <MikeSmith> I'm looking at http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-mediaqueries/#syntax and from that it seems like the whitespace around "and" is optional
  741. # [11:31] <MikeSmith> see also https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23188
  742. # [11:31] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@89.202.203.52) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
  743. # [11:32] <zcorpan> look at the editor's draft
  744. # [11:32] <zcorpan> i can't load it right now because the wifi is "horribly bad" here
  745. # [11:32] <zcorpan> iirc you can omit the space before but not after, because and( parses into a function
  746. # [11:32] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: ok
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  748. # [11:32] <zcorpan> but i can't look it up. i remember discussing it on the list
  749. # [11:33] <zcorpan> ok now the spec loaded
  750. # [11:33] <MikeSmith> yeah, I find a Example 20 in the spec says, "The following is an malformed media query because having no space between ‘and’ and the expression is not allowed. (That is reserved for the functional notation syntax.)"
  751. # [11:33] <MikeSmith> but isn't that different from what the BNF says?
  752. # [11:34] * MikeSmith looks at the ED
  753. # [11:34] <MikeSmith> "expression [ AND S* expression ]*"
  754. # [11:34] <zcorpan> ok so http://dev.w3.org/csswg/mediaqueries4/ says S+ AND S+ in the syntax
  755. # [11:38] <zcorpan> although the whitespace before *could* be omitted and still parsed correctly, it's required in the syntax. you could also omit the space after if you put in a comment in its place
  756. # [11:38] <zcorpan> since literal "and(" doesn't parse into an IDENT token it can't match the syntax even if it says the space is optional
  757. # [11:39] <zcorpan> i.e. and/**/( would parse correctly, but is not allowed in the current syntax, afaict
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  761. # [11:49] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: ok, thanks
  762. # [11:50] <darobin> zcorpan: can I steal your power source?
  763. # [11:56] <Ms2ger> One does not steal in such a palace
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  765. # [12:00] <jgraham> You at the CSSWG meeting or something?
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  767. # [12:01] <zcorpan> responsive images meeting
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  769. # [12:01] <jgraham> Oh
  770. # [12:01] <jgraham> That makes more sense
  771. # [12:02] <zcorpan> csswg meeting is tomorrow
  772. # [12:04] <jgraham> That was one reason it made more sense
  773. # [12:04] <jgraham> But I know CSS like to have pre-meetings
  774. # [12:04] <jgraham> and after-meetings
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  780. # [12:24] <SimonSapin> MikeSmith: http://www.w3.org/Style/2012/REC-mediaqueries-20120619-errata.html
  781. # [12:25] <SimonSapin> the problem is that and( tokenizes as a function
  782. # [12:26] <SimonSapin> so whitspace (or a comment, but nobody does that outside test cases) was effectively required there
  783. # [12:26] <SimonSapin> so we changed the grammar to not suggest that it is optional
  784. # [12:27] <SimonSapin> )and was changed as well, but just for symmetry
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  786. # [12:30] * Ms2ger wonders if there are tests
  787. # [12:30] <SimonSapin> good point
  788. # [12:32] <annevk> http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/WebIDL/#MapClass I wonder to what extent this has been coordinated outside of Tab / heycam
  789. # [12:32] <Ms2ger> I'd write some, but I don't want to deal with the csswg's bureaucracy
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  793. # [12:36] <SimonSapin> Ms2ger, if you write them I can deal with the bureaucracy
  794. # [12:36] <Ms2ger> Bah
  795. # [12:36] <Ms2ger> You weren't supposed to say that :)
  796. # [12:37] <SimonSapin> :)
  797. # [12:37] <SimonSapin> I think this is the source file for the test suite http://hg.csswg.org/test/file/tip/approved/css3-mediaqueries/src/test_media_queries.html but I don’t know how #metadata_cache is supposed to work
  798. # [12:38] <Ms2ger> I know
  799. # [12:38] <Ms2ger> I wish I didn't
  800. # [12:38] <SimonSapin> uh
  801. # [12:38] <Ms2ger> It's commented out JSON that duplicates the arguments to test()
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  804. # [12:45] <smaug____> annevk: in other words, you wonder if bz has reviewed that :)
  805. # [12:45] <Ms2ger> https://pastebin.mozilla.org/3015980?
  806. # [12:45] <annevk> smaug____: more public-script-coord I think
  807. # [12:48] <annevk> smaug____: e.g. whether it passes the "is this a good idea" test
  808. # [12:49] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@89.202.203.52) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  809. # [12:49] <annevk> smaug____: in https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23189 are you saying you did not implement the specification? :/
  810. # [12:50] <smaug____> annevk: I did implement the spec
  811. # [12:50] <smaug____> but we could change the spec
  812. # [12:51] <annevk> smaug____: I see, the way you phrased that makes it sound like you think it behaves differently from how the specification says it is
  813. # [12:51] <smaug____> oh, indeed
  814. # [12:52] <smaug____> I shouldn't have commented so late
  815. # [12:53] <annevk> midnight is late these days? :p
  816. # [12:53] <smaug____> it was midnight utc
  817. # [12:53] <annevk> Fair enough :-) I guess I can figure out some phrasing for how this would alternatively work...
  818. # [12:53] <MikeSmith> SimonSapin: thanks for the info
  819. # [12:54] <annevk> I wonder if we should change the exception to be a JavaScript TypeError...
  820. # [12:56] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: there are some media-queries-in-HTML tests in web-platform-tests/conformance-checkers/html/media-queries
  821. # [12:58] <MikeSmith> but I guess it would be better to use the tests from http://hg.csswg.org/test/file/tip/approved/css3-mediaqueries/src/test_media_queries.html for testing the validator too
  822. # [12:59] <MikeSmith> ...though I find no tests there for checking case of lack of whitespace before or after "and"
  823. # [13:01] <MikeSmith> plus I guess those are parser tests for checking UA conformance and not document-conformance tests
  824. # [13:01] <SimonSapin> MikeSmith: yes, this a recent change and we still need to add tests for it
  825. # [13:01] <MikeSmith> ok
  826. # [13:03] <annevk> Did w3.org/Bugs really go down while I submitted a massive comment? So glad I copy and pasted that...
  827. # [13:03] <annevk> "504 Gateway Time-out"
  828. # [13:05] <MikeSmith> annevk: should probably let sysreq@w3.org know
  829. # [13:05] <MikeSmith> they just upgraded it to v4.4 on Thursday
  830. # [13:06] <annevk> MikeSmith: I think the thing is just down, can you get to it?
  831. # [13:06] <MikeSmith> I could just a few minutes ago
  832. # [13:06] * MikeSmith tries again
  833. # [13:06] <annevk> Oh, it's back...
  834. # [13:06] <MikeSmith> yeah
  835. # [13:06] <annevk> It's kinda slow...
  836. # [13:07] <annevk> smaug____: care to review https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23189#c3 ?
  837. # [13:10] <annevk> Oh, you suggested something slightly different... You wanted no defaults for *OldValue...
  838. # [13:10] <smaug____> annevk: I think just passing attributeOldValue is enough to set attributes true
  839. # [13:10] <annevk> smaug____: same for characterData?
  840. # [13:10] <smaug____> right
  841. # [13:11] <annevk> smaug____: okay, so remove the defaults for those from the IDL too and just do a present check
  842. # [13:11] <annevk> smaug____: would it then make sense to have subtree presence imply childList?
  843. # [13:12] <annevk> darobin: ^^
  844. # [13:12] <smaug____> no
  845. # [13:12] <smaug____> subtree might as well imply attributes
  846. # [13:13] <smaug____> or characterData
  847. # [13:13] <annevk> aight
  848. # [13:13] <smaug____> hmm, "If attributeFilter is a non-empty array and attributes is false, throw a TypeError."
  849. # [13:13] <smaug____> does it need to be non-empty
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  851. # [13:13] * smaug____ can't recall the current spec
  852. # [13:14] <smaug____> ah, the current spec requires non-empty, ok
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  855. # [13:17] <annevk> I think to allow people to pass [] as default and not worry about it
  856. # [13:18] <annevk> however, if they pass [] as default and don't set attributes to false, attributes will become true with this new model
  857. # [13:18] <annevk> smaug____: so I think we should check for non-empty array before setting attributes to true, otherwise it's not quite compatible
  858. # [13:20] <smaug____> right
  859. # [13:21] <smaug____> empty array is still odd case
  860. # [13:21] <smaug____> it shouldn't create any Mutationrecords for attr changes
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  863. # [13:22] <smaug____> hmm, thinking
  864. # [13:22] <smaug____> I guess gecko has a bug
  865. # [13:23] <smaug____> it checks the existence of the array
  866. # [13:23] <smaug____> which is better option, IMO
  867. # [13:23] <smaug____> than the length of the array
  868. # [13:24] <annevk> then you cannot have a default value for all init members that doesn't cause throwing
  869. # [13:24] <annevk> I don't see how that's better
  870. # [13:27] <annevk> smaug____: ^
  871. # [13:28] <smaug____> why should attributefilter have default value?
  872. # [13:28] <annevk> smaug____: it seems libraries often end up creating generic code that has default values for everything
  873. # [13:29] <annevk> smaug____: I guess you could still do undefined in that case...
  874. # [13:29] <annevk> Alright, undefined works for me
  875. # [13:34] <annevk> smaug____: in http://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#queue-a-mutation-record should it be a present check too then in step 3?
  876. # [13:35] <smaug____> looking
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  878. # [13:35] <smaug____> yeah
  879. # [13:35] <smaug____> I think empty should just means empty
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  881. # [13:36] <smaug____> you filter out all the attribute changes
  882. # [13:38] <annevk> alright, lunch...
  883. # [13:43] <Ancil> Hi
  884. # [13:44] <Ms2ger> http://what-if.xkcd.com/imgs/a/62/balloon_wolfram.png
  885. # [13:46] <Ancil> Should CORS be applied on a image with crossorigin="anonymous" only when image is used in Canvas
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  887. # [13:47] <Ancil> should it be applied for when the image is used in without any canvas
  888. # [13:48] <Ancil> Firefox applies CORS for both the cases
  889. # [13:48] <Ancil> whereas Chrome does it only when image is used in a Canvas
  890. # [13:49] <Ancil> which is the correct behavior?
  891. # [13:51] <Ancil> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/embedded-content-1.html#attr-img-crossorigin
  892. # [13:51] <Ancil> is the spec reference
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  895. # [13:56] <odinho> Ancil: It should do a CORS then.
  896. # [13:57] <odinho> Ancil: Thing is, you can do <img src=bla crossorigin> and then later use that image in canvas. It'd be stupid to actually do a new fetch in order to check CORS status.
  897. # [13:57] <odinho> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/fetching-resources.html#potentially-cors-enabled-fetch
  898. # [13:58] <odinho> Read -> If mode is "Anonymous" or "Use Credentials"
  899. # [14:01] <Ancil> odinho: Okay, so whenever the crossorigin attribute is mentioned CORS rules should be applied irrespective of where its used
  900. # [14:01] <odinho> Ancil: You don't know where it'll be used.
  901. # [14:02] <Ancil> odinho: right
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  903. # [14:04] <Ancil> odinho: Thanks
  904. # [14:07] <annevk> Ancil: Firefox is correct
  905. # [14:08] <annevk> Ancil: I think this might be a known bug in Chrome, but maybe report it just in case
  906. # [14:09] <Ancil> annevk: Thanks, will log a bug in Chrome
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  920. # [15:05] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: wow. the bitbucket diff viewer is comically bad
  921. # [15:06] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: empty lines match and nothing else, so let's consider arbitrary empty lines as unchanged while the bits between the empty lines changes
  922. # [15:06] <hsivonen> *change
  923. # [15:06] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: yeah, that's among the things that bitbucket doesn't seem to be trying too hard at
  924. # [15:10] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: also, changing from spaces to tabs doesn't make diffs particularly fun
  925. # [15:10] <MikeSmith> yeah
  926. # [15:10] <MikeSmith> eclipse
  927. # [15:11] <hsivonen> isn't this configurable in Eclipse? I use Eclipse.
  928. # [15:12] <hsivonen> I wonder if I should give up trying to review individual change sets on bit bucket and if I should review a massive diff that ignores whitespace
  929. # [15:13] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: are the changes from char[] to String headed somewhere? Those were char[] for a reason...
  930. # [15:15] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: I can'T see that those are headed anywhere, no. They seem like an arbitrary change he decided on his own.
  931. # [15:15] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: apparently this code isn't supposed to stay working after each changeset?
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  934. # [15:20] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: after looking at that code more since the time when I pinged you about reviewing it, I am now really wondering myself if it's worth putting any more time into reviewing it
  935. # [15:20] <MikeSmith> I'm not sure it's solving any problem that we need solved
  936. # [15:21] <MikeSmith> which is part of the reason why in the mean time I wrote the code in validator/SimpleDocumentValidator.java
  937. # [15:22] <MikeSmith> that is, to expose an interface that does something similar to what this code seems to be trying to do
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  939. # [15:22] <Ancil> odinho: annevk: Chrome checks for the image during rendering it. If a image is fetched with crossOrigin attribute. And if the CORS check fails, then it renders the image when used without canvas and doesn't render it when used within canvas in the same html
  940. # [15:23] <MikeSmith> but to do it without refactoring huge swathes of existing code that we otherwise have no need to touch
  941. # [15:23] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: Is a problem with change sets or problem with big pockets that the bit bucket viewer shows moves as removals and additions in stone moves?
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  943. # [15:23] <Ancil> annevk: so the Chrome behaviour also is acceptable. Isn't it?
  944. # [15:25] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: I think that's a problem with the way the code was reformatted, and bitbucket not dealing with that well
  945. # [15:25] <Ancil> annevk: odinho: doesn't fetch the image twice
  946. # [15:25] <slartsa> Yes this regards css not html, but does someone have knowledge about the current state of object-fit?
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  948. # [15:26] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: whoa. whoa. does thing make the validator's output non-streaming?
  949. # [15:26] <hsivonen> https://bitbucket.org/bsdgabor/validator-refactoring/commits/49fca1a93cb43f3c25daa0fb7b352913525249b5
  950. # [15:27] <hsivonen> or is that code only used in the non-servlet case?
  951. # [15:27] * MikeSmith looks
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  953. # [15:30] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: that code is not only used for the non-servlet case, I think
  954. # [15:30] <odinho> slartsa: lastorset implemeted it in Presto.
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  956. # [15:31] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: but another thing I need to mention to you is that the current code does not actually run with the servlet properly
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  958. # [15:31] <MikeSmith> so that's clearly a show stopper regardless
  959. # [15:32] <MikeSmith> he has been working on trying to troubleshoot the problem but last I heard from him he had not fixed it
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  968. # [15:52] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: the changes toward newer history suggest that the servlet side hasn't been tested after each change during the refactoring. That scares me.
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  971. # [15:56] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: yeah, as crazy as it might seem to say it, I don't think testing the servlet behavior is something he made a priority at all
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  973. # [15:57] <MikeSmith> and when I agreed to help with this initially, I wasn't agreeing to do that testing for him
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  976. # [15:59] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: really what it comes down to is, I was not the one who outlined the goals for him. That came from a member of the systems team who wants to have an API exposed that's not bound to the servlet.
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  978. # [15:59] <MikeSmith> I agreed to help with questions about the existing code if had any
  979. # [15:59] <MikeSmith> but I never got any questions from him
  980. # [16:00] <MikeSmith> I just got essentially the same code you're looking at now too
  981. # [16:01] <MikeSmith> and meanwhile my colleague has done zero review of the code himself to even say whether it meets his needs or not
  982. # [16:03] <MikeSmith> so at this point I have lost whatever small amount of enthusiasm I may have ever had to for ever trying to help get it landed
  983. # [16:04] <MikeSmith> so I think it's probably not worth your time to try to figure out if it's workable or not, or how it could be make workable
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  985. # [16:04] <MikeSmith> I'd been meaning to ping you to say I think you could hold off on the review
  986. # [16:05] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: ouch.
  987. # [16:05] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: well, I sent you email. I'll hold off attempts to diff the end state with the tip of the trunk, then.
  988. # [16:06] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: OK
  989. # [16:07] <MikeSmith> I'll look at what you sent already by mail and try to pass it on
  990. # [16:07] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: isn't GSoC supposed to ensure that there's a mentor? were you the assigned mentor or the person from the systeam
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  993. # [16:10] <MikeSmith> I think we both were. But in hindsight I think it was a mistake for me to agree to be a mentor for a code project that was not scoped out to solve any problem that I needed solved.
  994. # [16:11] <MikeSmith> my intent was to be available to answer questions about the code and give some guidance about the best way to approach it for whatever the goal was
  995. # [16:11] <MikeSmith> but I never got any questions and never had much opportunity to give guidance
  996. # [16:12] <hsivonen> :-(
  997. # [16:12] <hsivonen> there is some good bits in there. But I can't just pull it all to the trunk without some confidence that it doesn't break the servlet side.
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  999. # [16:25] <annevk> Ancil: yeah, that's a bug in how Chrome implements CORS
  1000. # [16:25] <annevk> Ancil: if CORS fails it's to be treated as a network error
  1001. # [16:26] <annevk> Ancil: rendering it is forbidden
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  1021. # [17:12] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
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  1027. # [17:33] <say2joe> hixie, I agree. my 2 pence.
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  1030. # [17:43] <Hixie_> agree with what? :-)
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  1038. # [17:58] <zewt> with whatever you disagree with
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  1042. # [18:04] <annevk> Domenic_: for some reason I'm not getting your later reply but I did get the one from Jonas...
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  1053. # [18:12] <say2joe> Hixie_: sorry… playing catchup to yesterday (i get a backlog in my IRC client). I was referring to your comments on getElementById
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  1056. # [18:16] <Domenic_> annevk: weird. well he quoted it in full so nothing lost i guess.
  1057. # [18:17] <annevk> Domenic_: yeah, maybe some mail server delay, it's archived on w3.org too so I could read it there
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  1059. # [18:17] <annevk> Oh, just got it :)
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  1090. # [19:11] <qtax^w> i've read what i could find on "hgroup" but i found no "final" answer on the fate of this element. should it be avoided? is it still in whatwg html spec?
  1091. # [19:12] <qtax^w> (i guess the answer to the last question is yes)
  1092. # [19:12] <Ms2ger> Indeed
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  1094. # [19:12] <Ms2ger> So the answer to the first is "no"
  1095. # [19:13] <qtax^w> hmm. i like it and would like to use it, but not sure since so much fuss about it
  1096. # [19:14] <jgraham> I'm not really sure what the worst that can happen is
  1097. # [19:14] <Ms2ger> Don't worry about the fuss, that's just the HTMLWG trying to assert authority they don't have
  1098. # [19:14] <jgraham> Some future a11y tool fails to extract the perfect heading semantics from your page
  1099. # [19:15] <jgraham> An outline generation tool gets stuff a bit wrong
  1100. # [19:15] <qtax^w> well i'd like the possible (future?) implementations of outlining algorithms to work properly
  1101. # [19:15] <jgraham> They don't seem like significant failure modes, though of course they would be nicer to get right
  1102. # [19:17] <qtax^w> btw, are lower "rank" h\d tags valid before higher ranked ones in a hgroup?
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  1104. # [19:17] <qtax^w> eg <hgroup><h2>foo</h2><h1>bar</h1></hgroup>
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  1106. # [19:25] <Hixie_> qtax^w: <hgroup> is stable, implemented, and isn't going anywhere.
  1107. # [19:25] <qtax^w> great
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  1116. # [19:42] <SteveF> <font> is stable implemented and is going anywhere
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  1118. # [19:45] <Ms2ger> It is?
  1119. # [19:46] <Hixie_> don't feed the troll, Ms2ger
  1120. # [19:47] <Ms2ger> I'm surprised it is going anywhere, apparently
  1121. # [19:48] <SteveF> Ms2ger: thanks <font> is stable implemented and isn't going anywhere
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  1183. # [21:49] <smaug____> hmm, no anne
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  1234. # [23:50] <Hixie_> http://www.smashcompany.com/technology/ian-hickson-is-always-wrong-about-everything :-(
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  1237. # [23:56] <jgraham> Hixie_: That seems unlikely. Otherwise you would die the first time you tried to cross the street
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  1239. # Session Close: Wed Sep 11 00:00:00 2013

The end :)