/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-09-16 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Sep 16 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <annevk> But it depends on what other arguments are put forward. E.g. I can see compatibility with clients that don't want 16-bit code units to be seen as important. Although I'm not sure how important that is...
  4. # [00:00] <Hixie_> can we please not change this stuff? it's irrelevant to the wider world and just wastes implementer time.
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  6. # [00:01] <zcorpan> i agree with Hixie_. we have interop on this now iirc
  7. # [00:01] <annevk> Hixie_: the thing is, but this still being in flux it's still wasting time
  8. # [00:01] <annevk> Hixie_: e.g. for Rust / Servo
  9. # [00:01] <annevk> Hixie_: and the design of encoders/decoders
  10. # [00:02] <Hixie_> just, don't change what's implemented, that's all i ask
  11. # [00:02] <annevk> Hixie_: see recent thread on whatwg@whatwg.org, see thread on www-international@w3.org about text rendering, etc.
  12. # [00:04] <Hixie_> do mutation observers not provide a simple way to just detect when an element is removed from the DOM?
  13. # [00:04] <Hixie_> i just want to observe an element until it's removed from its parent
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  15. # [00:08] <annevk> You can observe the parent changes to its children.
  16. # [00:08] <Hixie_> yeah but that means i have to filter out all the other children and then disconnect when i finally see what i care about
  17. # [00:08] <Hixie_> which is like twenty times more code than i want
  18. # [00:12] <annevk> File a bug? Could look into new mutation observer features at some point... I wonder if we should do that before or after MVC stuff is done.
  19. # [00:13] <annevk> I need to get some sleep. If anyone here has feedback for TC39, please let me know. W3C TAG feedback welcome too... Will be in Boston / NY for a couple of weeks starting next week to talk to those guys.
  20. # [00:14] <Hixie_> so here's a problem
  21. # [00:14] <Hixie_> i need to follow the node's parent
  22. # [00:14] <Hixie_> before i know what it is
  23. # [00:14] <Hixie_> since the element hasn't been added to the dom yet
  24. # [00:15] <Hixie_> at the point where i want to set up observing its parent going away
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  29. # [00:19] <Hixie_> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23250
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  33. # [00:29] <Hixie_> is there a way to do "instanceof Document" that actually works? i.e. won't only be true for the current browsing context's Document?
  34. # [00:29] <Hixie_> o.ownerDocument == o, i guess...
  35. # [00:30] <Hixie_> oh, crap, that returns null for documents
  36. # [00:30] <Hixie_> well, o.ownerDocument == null, then, if i know it's a Node
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  66. # [03:38] <MikeSmith> how do I check whether http://w3c-test.org/testrunner/2dcontext/fill-and-stroke-styles/2d.pattern.repeat.nullsuffix.html is passing or not?
  67. # [03:38] <MikeSmith> (manual test)
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  71. # [03:55] <MikeSmith> hmm I see it's not actually a manual test; it passes automaticaly at http://philip.html5.org/tests/canvas/suite/tests/2d.pattern.repeat.nullsuffix.html
  72. # [03:55] <MikeSmith> so what's different..
  73. # [03:58] <Philip`> MikeSmith: It probably should be calling _assert_throws, not assert_throws
  74. # [03:58] <Philip`> because (per http://w3c-test.org/common/canvas-tests.js) that's what sets _asserted = true
  75. # [03:58] <MikeSmith> hey Philip`
  76. # [03:58] <MikeSmith> ah
  77. # [03:58] <Philip`> and _asserted is what the thing uses to tell if any assertions actually ran (because if there were none, it assumes the test requires manual verification)
  78. # [03:59] <MikeSmith> Philip`: voila http://w3c-test.org/testrunner/2dcontext/fill-and-stroke-styles/2d.pattern.repeat.nullsuffix.html
  79. # [04:00] <MikeSmith> thanks
  80. # [04:01] <Philip`> That test only really existed to annoy Opera developers though, and now their browser is dead so it doesn't matter much
  81. # [04:02] <MikeSmith> Philip`: well I got a bunch of tests with that problem actually
  82. # [04:05] <Philip`> That was the goal of every one of the tests that has a \0 in it
  83. # [04:05] <MikeSmith> ok
  84. # [04:05] <Philip`> I hope nobody at Opera actually spent any time trying to fix that bug
  85. # [04:07] <MikeSmith> Philip`: should we just drop those test from the test suite?
  86. # [04:08] <Philip`> MikeSmith: No, because it finds real spec violations in real implementations, so it's exactly the kind of thing a thorough test suite should be testing
  87. # [04:08] <MikeSmith> ok
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  91. # [04:09] <Philip`> But you shouldn't expect anyone to get a 100% pass rate, because the cost/benefit is totally not worthwhile
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  93. # [04:12] <MikeSmith> ok
  94. # [04:13] <MikeSmith> Philip`: btw you have any idea why http://w3c-test.org/testrunner/2dcontext/fill-and-stroke-styles/2d.pattern.image.incomplete.immediate.html is failing?
  95. # [04:16] <Philip`> MikeSmith: I assume you're testing in a browser that considers the image to be loaded as soon as img.src was set (at least when the image was in cache), but (if I was reading the spec correctly, and if it hasn't changed since then) the image shouldn't be loaded until after the script has returned
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  100. # [04:28] <MikeSmith> Philip`: I'm testing in Firefox and IE and Chrome ..
  101. # [04:28] <MikeSmith> nn
  102. # [04:28] <MikeSmith> (oh I guess you didn't meant that sleep literally)
  103. # [04:30] <MikeSmith> http://w3c-test.org/testrunner/2dcontext/fill-and-stroke-styles/2d.pattern.image.incomplete.emptysrc.html seems to failing in the same way maybe (except in IE)
  104. # [04:30] <MikeSmith> anyway
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  214. # [13:10] <MikeSmith> http://w3c-test.org/testrunner/2dcontext/failures.html
  215. # [13:15] <jgraham> Those UA strings are super-easy to read
  216. # [13:16] <MikeSmith> jgraham: I guess I should trim them down
  217. # [13:16] <jgraham> MikeSmith: Might be interesting to cross-check against http://hoppipolla.co.uk/410/results.html
  218. # [13:17] * MikeSmith looks
  219. # [13:17] <jgraham> Although if you fixed some tests recently I haven't run with the newe tests yet
  220. # [13:17] <MikeSmith> I haven't checked in any fixes
  221. # [13:18] <jgraham> You have local fixes?
  222. # [13:19] <MikeSmith> yeah the only changes I made were locally and then only to change some assert* to _assert
  223. # [13:20] <MikeSmith> jgraham: so I see fill-and-stroke-styles/2d.pattern.image.incomplete.immediate.html is failing at http://hoppipolla.co.uk/410/results.html too
  224. # [13:20] <MikeSmith> what UA are those results for?
  225. # [13:20] <MikeSmith> Gecko?
  226. # [13:21] <jgraham> MikeSmith: Yeah, some recentish nightly
  227. # [13:21] <MikeSmith> from what I've checked at http://hoppipolla.co.uk/410/results.html it does seem the results pretty much match
  228. # [13:21] <MikeSmith> except for the _assert* change, which fixed some of them in all UAs
  229. # [13:22] <MikeSmith> and which fixed some in Gecko only but not in Trident or Blink
  230. # [13:23] <jgraham> That's encouraging :)
  231. # [13:23] <jgraham> A PR for the _assert change would be nice btw :)
  232. # [13:23] <jgraham> Also
  233. # [13:24] <jgraham> Jasper: The latest canvas tests are at http://w3c-test.org/web-platform-tests/master, not under html/
  234. # [13:24] <jgraham> and the repo is at https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests
  235. # [13:24] <jgraham> Contributions via pull requests are welcome
  236. # [13:26] <MikeSmith> I'd make a PR for the changes but last I talked to Ms2ger he suggested changes should be made to the test sources from Philip` and we regenerate the WPT versions
  237. # [13:26] <MikeSmith> and the problem with that is, Robin changed the WPT directory structure, which broke Ms2ger's script
  238. # [13:27] <MikeSmith> jgraham: I'm curious about http://w3c-test.org/testrunner/2dcontext/failures.html#gecko-passes
  239. # [13:35] <jgraham> Sigh
  240. # [13:35] <jgraham> I might have to fix the script then
  241. # [13:36] <jgraham> But I don't know where it is
  242. # [13:36] <MikeSmith> jgraham: it's in the repo
  243. # [13:36] <MikeSmith> right?
  244. # [13:36] <MikeSmith> https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/tree/master/2dcontext/tools
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  246. # [13:41] <jgraham> Probably
  247. # [13:42] <jgraham> I don't really remember what I knew about these tests and what I knew wasn't all that much
  248. # [13:43] <MikeSmith> jgraham: still I reckon that's way more than I know. I just been pushing buttons to make that report which I promised plh two months ago I'd do
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  250. # [13:44] <MikeSmith> anyway, very glad at least to have Ms2ger's test runner. That makes the basis grunt work automatic.
  251. # [13:46] <zcorpan> Philip`: i think \0 was fixed in some places but not everywhere, and yes, developers were annoyed. i was annoying them with such tests as well. :-)
  252. # [13:47] <jgraham> Well they always said that it wasn't worth the time to fix in general
  253. # [13:47] <jgraham> So it's not like you killed Presto by making us fix null bugs rather than implement features
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  255. # [13:55] <zcorpan> right
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  257. # [14:11] <gsnedders> It was basically fixed for new APIs, not old, and occasionally when some real site hit NULL-truncation in old APIs, but that was rare.
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  279. # [16:14] <zcorpan> i wonder if the custom element guys have discussed with the SVG WG about SVG not introducing new elements with dashes in the name
  280. # [16:18] * hsivonen sure hopes so
  281. # [16:19] <jgraham> They probably couldn't think of a humourous thread title for it
  282. # [16:20] <zcorpan> All your dashed names are belong to us.
  283. # [16:22] <MikeSmith> heh
  284. # [16:24] <MikeSmith> I don't remember anybody asking whether the rest of the everybody figured reserving dash exclusively for web components was a good idea
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  286. # [16:25] <MikeSmith> or, say, maybe even asking Hixie_
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  288. # [16:29] <zcorpan> filed https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23256
  289. # [16:30] <zcorpan> hmm, html suggests x-vendor-foo as element name for vendor extensions
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  291. # [16:31] <zcorpan> but maybe browsers are moving away from prefixing stuff in general anyway
  292. # [16:32] <zcorpan> or maybe that was attributes, not elements
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  294. # [16:38] <zewt> prefixing elements sounds even more of a pain in the ass to authors than prefixing css (which is more of a pain in the ass than prefixing APIs)
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  323. # [17:40] <Hixie_> MikeSmith: i think it was partially my idea, as a way to get rid of the ugly x- prefixes :-)
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  346. # [18:35] <TabAtkins> zcorpan: Yes, SVG isn't going to make any elements with dashes in their name.
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  368. # [19:54] <Hixie_> people who care about multipart/form-data, please see https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16909
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  413. # [22:35] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  414. # [22:39] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
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  418. # [22:47] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.217.25) (Client Quit)
  419. # [22:50] * Quits: davve (~user@node-7lfb91kwq155uy7y8.a0.ipv6.opera.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  420. # [22:51] * Quits: Zauberfisch (~Zauberfis@2a01:4f8:100:73c3::3) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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  430. # [23:16] * Quits: bradleymeck (~bradley.m@216-166-20-1.fwd.datafoundry.com) (Quit: bradleymeck)
  431. # [23:17] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED57922.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  432. # [23:18] * Quits: jreading (Adium@nat/novell/x-jjthqoyjwhusfjfs) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  433. # [23:20] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl8-174-134.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
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  436. # [23:21] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl8-174-134.dsl.telepac.pt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  437. # [23:22] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  438. # [23:23] * Quits: rmichnik (~quassel@177.135.228.218) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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  440. # [23:24] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
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  443. # [23:35] * Quits: zdobersek (~zdobersek@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
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  445. # [23:39] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@192.150.10.207) (Quit: Leaving.)
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  451. # [23:52] * Quits: marcosc_ (~marcosc@bl8-174-134.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  452. # [23:52] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@bl8-174-134.dsl.telepac.pt)
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  454. # [23:53] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl8-174-134.dsl.telepac.pt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  455. # [23:53] * Quits: fishd (~darin@216.239.45.66) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  456. # [23:56] * ojan_away is now known as ojan
  457. # [23:57] * Quits: marcosc_ (~marcosc@bl8-174-134.dsl.telepac.pt) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  458. # Session Close: Tue Sep 17 00:00:00 2013

The end :)