/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-09-19 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Sep 19 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  35. # [01:08] <Hixie_> teehee, anne keeps saying "plan of record"
  36. # [01:09] * Hixie_ wonders where this record is :-)
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  38. # [01:11] <jgraham> Doesn't "plan of record" just mean "what TC39 are thinking this week"?
  39. # [01:12] <jgraham> </rimshot>
  40. # [01:12] <Hixie_> one of them was about javascript: and navigation, which i think is just the fetch spec, not anything to do with js
  41. # [01:15] <jgraham> I wasn't being serious :)
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  44. # [01:20] <reyre> how does the positioning in the webvtt processing model with 'vw' and 'vh' CSS units make sense? these will mostly always be relative to the page viewport
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  46. # [01:22] <Hixie_> the viewport is redefined for vtt purposes
  47. # [01:22] <Hixie_> or at least, it used to be, i assume that's still there
  48. # [01:22] <Hixie_> search for "viewport"
  49. # [01:24] <reyre> Hixie_: i'm not seeing anything, but i see a lot of references to 'video viewport' so i guess it's implicit
  50. # [01:24] <Hixie_> file a bug to make it explicit :-)
  51. # [01:24] <reyre> but why not just use %
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  53. # [01:24] <reyre> it's the same in practice, no? if we just use %
  54. # [01:24] <Hixie_> (but i'm pretty sure it was explicit)
  55. # [01:24] <reyre> Hixie_: i'll take a closer look
  56. # [01:24] <Hixie_> i don't think it's the same, but i don't have it paged in
  57. # [01:26] <reyre> Hixie_: ah "The viewport (and initial containing block) is video's rendering area."
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  81. # [02:22] <rniwa> wycats: hi, I just landed the initial version of the new DoYouEvenBench in http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/156073
  82. # [02:23] <rniwa> wycats: you can open benchmark.html to run it
  83. # [02:23] <rniwa> wycats: thanks for the help again!
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  94. # [02:58] <MikeSmith> so NavigationController is now ServiceWorker
  95. # [02:59] <MikeSmith> with a short stop at EventWorker for a while on the way ServiceWorker
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  181. # [09:32] <hsivonen> Is Singaporean Chinese written using simplified or traditional characters?
  182. # [09:34] <heycam> simplified, looks like
  183. # [09:34] <heycam> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Chinese_Characters
  184. # [09:35] <heycam> interesting that the simplification is not exactly the same as mainland china
  185. # [09:35] <heycam> (oh that's just the earlier 1969 simplification which isn't exactly the same)
  186. # [09:37] <hsivonen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singaporean_Mandarin#Writing_system is more ambiguous
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  188. # [09:38] <heycam> I wouldn't be surprised if there was a mix used on shopfronts etc.
  189. # [09:39] <hsivonen> Yeah, looks like Windows has the same legacy code page for Singapore and the PRC
  190. # [09:40] <hsivonen> Macao, however, seems to use traditional characters
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  192. # [09:42] <heycam> makes sense, having a similar history of return to China as HK, only in the last 20 years
  193. # [09:43] <zcorpan> <http://www.w3.org/mid/F9A196AC-1C94-407C-86CB-83553D9F8897@adobe.com>
  194. # [09:43] <heycam> zcorpan, is that really the CSS WG policy?
  195. # [09:44] <zcorpan> heycam: afaik the WG policy hasn't changed (yet)
  196. # [09:44] <hsivonen> It's sad that the CSS WG sticks to non-bad policy.
  197. # [09:45] <heycam> yeah, just found http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/vendor-prefixes#working-draft-features :\
  198. # [09:45] <heycam> "MAY use a prefix specific to the issuing WG or to the specification, e.g. -svg-" really? :)
  199. # [09:46] <hsivonen> With Blink, Gecko and, if Pointer Events are any indication, Trident moving on, maybe the CSS/WebKit policy will end up hurting WebKit enough for WebKit to defect from the CSS policy
  200. # [09:47] <heycam> maybe
  201. # [09:48] <zcorpan> hsivonen: can you reply to the email?
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  217. # [10:50] <hsivonen> zcorpan: replied
  218. # [10:50] <zcorpan> hsivonen: thanks!
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  221. # [10:59] <SimonSapin> has Microsoft commented on prefixing?
  222. # [11:02] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
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  225. # [11:26] <hsivonen> SimonSapin: dunno. I didn't mention Microsoft on the mailing list, because I noticed that Pointer Events has progressed to CR
  226. # [11:28] <jgraham> Why does ubuntu randomly shuffle all my windows whenever I plug in an external monitor?
  227. # [11:29] <jgraham> And then why are the window management controls buggy?
  228. # [11:29] <jgraham> This doesn't seem like stuff that has changed much recently so you wouldn't have thought it would get worse
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  303. # [16:26] <jgraham> How bad is https://pastebin.mozilla.org/3096559 as a replacement for https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/blob/master/dom/nodes/encoding.php ?
  304. # [16:26] <jgraham> Obviously the import is not ideal. Can probably fix that with some magic
  305. # [16:27] <jgraham> tobie_ darobin zcorpan annevk ^
  306. # [16:28] <annevk> jgraham: what does escape do?
  307. # [16:28] <jgraham> Same as htmlspecialcharacters more or less
  308. # [16:28] <annevk> seems fine to me
  309. # [16:28] <tobie_> same here
  310. # [16:28] <annevk> why is the import bad?
  311. # [16:29] <zcorpan> yeah
  312. # [16:29] <jgraham> Well having to know to import stuff from e.g. cgi seems bad
  313. # [16:30] <zcorpan> you only need to escape " right?
  314. # [16:30] <jgraham> Could just make a "utils" module that you can import
  315. # [16:30] <annevk> jgraham: given that cgi is included by default, seems better than making something new...
  316. # [16:30] <annevk> jgraham: but maybe I don't understand the cost
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  321. # [16:32] <darobin> jgraham: what the others have said
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  324. # [16:34] <zcorpan> darobin: you're supposed to violently disagree with the change on the basis of the choice of indentation or something
  325. # [16:36] <gsnedders> zcorpan: Can you dump t/resources/slice-and-dice.cgi somewhere?
  326. # [16:37] <zcorpan> gsnedders: send me an email and i can do it tomorrow
  327. # [16:38] <gsnedders> zcorpan: simonp?
  328. # [16:38] <zcorpan> yep
  329. # [16:38] <gsnedders> (I just relied on LDAP before. :P)
  330. # [16:38] <darobin> zcorpan: it's Python man, there is nothing bad I can say about its indentation that hasn't been said many times over already :)
  331. # [16:40] <zcorpan> bah
  332. # [16:40] <darobin> does anyone recall where the discussion that made elements that contain a hyphen reserved for extensions (as described in Web Components) happen?
  333. # [16:40] <darobin> I can't seem to track it down, I guess I'm looking for the wrong thing
  334. # [16:41] <annevk> look for a bug
  335. # [16:41] <darobin> I'm thinking we could extend that to attributes as well
  336. # [16:43] <zcorpan> darobin: why would it make sense for attributes?
  337. # [16:43] <darobin> zcorpan: well, people also want to add their own attributes, and the current theory is that data-* is only for specific hacks
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  339. # [16:44] <darobin> e.g. the epub people could add their own epub-whatever and it would just be valid
  340. # [16:44] <darobin> it would save us from data-epub-* and epub:*
  341. # [16:44] <darobin> that's a win in my book
  342. # [16:44] <darobin> ah!
  343. # [16:44] <darobin> the trick was to look for dash instead of hyphen
  344. # [16:44] <zcorpan> or they could standardise whatever="" ?
  345. # [16:45] <darobin> zcorpan: yeah, I'd like that too
  346. # [16:45] <annevk> yeah, epub can extend HTML within their community...
  347. # [16:45] <annevk> I don't think epub will succeed long term, but who knows
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  349. # [16:45] <darobin> annevk: I'd like to 1) bring it onto the web and 2) avoid ever having to grandfather their decisions in HTML
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  351. # [16:45] <annevk> I think the only thing we need for books on the web is better CSS
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  353. # [16:46] <annevk> and maybe zip packaging, but definitely not the mess that is epub
  354. # [16:46] <darobin> if zip becomes first-class citizen, all of a sudden we have lots of epub content that's just there
  355. # [16:46] <annevk> so yeah
  356. # [16:46] <annevk> about that
  357. # [16:47] <annevk> anyone a suggestion for generalizing "$zip="?
  358. # [16:47] <darobin> generalising to?
  359. # [16:47] <annevk> a name or identifer we could reuse in the future for other things, may similar needs arise
  360. # [16:47] <jgraham> annevk: I think I just mean that utils.escape would be an alias for cgi.escape, or something. So you would have a bunch of useful features all in the same module
  361. # [16:48] <annevk> if we're going to fork the basic URL syntax, including data URLs etc. tying it to zip seems ugly
  362. # [16:48] <annevk> jgraham: maybe if you really start needing that, seems like premature refactoring at this point
  363. # [16:48] <jgraham> annevk: It wasn't going to be the first thing I did :)
  364. # [16:48] <darobin> what are the other use cases?
  365. # [16:49] <annevk> darobin: other archive formats maybe
  366. # [16:49] <darobin> I mean, if this is just generalising to packaging then $pack works
  367. # [16:49] <darobin> annevk: yeah, but I was wondering beyond that
  368. # [16:50] <darobin> and, well, if it's just for other packaging formats then honestly $zip still works :)
  369. # [16:50] <jgraham> Something to do with media where there are lots of things muxed into a single file? That's effectively packaging too, I guess
  370. # [16:50] <darobin> yeah
  371. # [16:50] <annevk> darobin: I don't know, it's just a bit different from the separators URLs have thus far
  372. # [16:50] <jgraham> But it seems weird to use $zip if it's a webm file
  373. # [16:51] <darobin> jgraham: I was joking — see XMLHttpRequest for precedent
  374. # [16:51] <darobin> I'd paint that shed with $pack
  375. # [16:51] <annevk> or maybe $= is unique enough?
  376. # [16:52] <darobin> it could be
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  380. # [16:52] <darobin> = and $ are used in paths a fair bit, but both together I don't recall
  381. # [16:52] <annevk> $sub=
  382. # [16:52] <darobin> I'm not sure classic corpora would catch that though
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  384. # [16:53] <darobin> a lot of that stuff is in session URLs and the such
  385. # [16:53] <annevk> yeah
  386. # [16:53] <darobin> it almost looks like a sub, too, if you see the $ as the propeller and the = as the pointy front
  387. # [16:54] <annevk> :)
  388. # [16:54] <darobin> that said, breaking people who do horrible session URLs would likely be a service rendered to the Web
  389. # [16:55] <darobin> even safer: $␚=
  390. # [16:55] <jgraham> Said like someone who has never needed to book airline tickets
  391. # [16:56] <darobin> or $⟃=
  392. # [16:56] <darobin> jgraham: you mean you wouldn't want to wreck their services and make their lives miserable for a little while?
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  397. # [16:58] <jgraham> I quite like the idea of $𝌤
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  399. # [16:59] <annevk> no
  400. # [16:59] <annevk> http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Zip#URLs
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  402. # [17:01] <jgraham> You just hate plane 1
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  404. # [17:04] <darobin> that's an excellent choice jgraham
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  465. # [19:11] <nimbu> annevk: you there
  466. # [19:11] <nimbu> are you alive
  467. # [19:11] <nimbu> annevk: can I use & in a url path
  468. # [19:11] <nimbu> e.g. example.com/benson&hedges/
  469. # [19:11] <nimbu> or anyone
  470. # [19:12] <nimbu> cc beverloo jgraham
  471. # [19:12] <annevk> nimbu: yeah
  472. # [19:12] <nimbu> annevk: THANKS
  473. # [19:12] <nimbu> now to box people in their faces
  474. # [19:12] <nimbu> annevk: is there like a reference
  475. # [19:12] <nimbu> i can throw
  476. # [19:12] <nimbu> my google is failing
  477. # [19:13] <annevk> nimbu: path segment: http://url.spec.whatwg.org/#path-segment
  478. # [19:13] <annevk> nimbu: from there you go to URL code points, which include "&"
  479. # [19:13] <nimbu> annevk: SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET THANKS SO MUCH
  480. # [19:14] <annevk> nimbu: enjoy 386'ing the interwebs
  481. # [19:15] <miketaylr> also drink less caffeine maybe
  482. # [19:15] <annevk> or less sugar, would make it less sweet
  483. # [19:16] <miketaylr> :)
  484. # [19:16] <nimbu> ahahahahha
  485. # [19:16] <nimbu> omg annevk nerdiest joak
  486. # [19:16] <nimbu> i had to look up xkcd
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  489. # [19:19] <jgraham> https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/blob/master/old-tests/submission/Microsoft/async/delay.php
  490. # [19:19] <jsbell> I should write an HTTP server where resources requests must be made in unary: http://example.com/????????????????
  491. # [19:19] <nimbu> i like the idea of making requests exclusively in ?!
  492. # [19:19] <nimbu> example.com/?!¡????!!!¡¡¡¡
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  494. # [19:20] <jgraham> Make it redirect so that you can encode the domain part as well
  495. # [19:20] <jsbell> jgraham: going back a few weeks... you'd mentioned test submissions directly via membership in the w3c group (?) on github rather than fork/pull requests; how do I go about getting group membership?
  496. # [19:21] <jsbell> Apologies if I'm misremembering
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  501. # [19:22] <jgraham> jsbell: I don't remember mentioning that
  502. # [19:22] <jgraham> I mean it is possible
  503. # [19:22] <jgraham> But it isn't a good idea
  504. # [19:23] <jgraham> (it is a better idea to create a branch in the W3C repo and then make a PR from that, since it allowd multiple people to collaborate on the PR)
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  506. # [19:24] <jsbell> Ah, yes, that's the workflow that was mentioned.
  507. # [19:24] <jgraham> But bypassing the PR part is bypassing code review which is A Bad Thing
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  509. # [19:24] <jgraham> So I can add you to the group if you give me your username
  510. # [19:25] <jgraham> I suggest that you choose some "unique" prefix for any branch that you create
  511. # [19:25] <jgraham> Like "jsbell/"
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  513. # [19:26] <jsbell> jgraham: go with 'jsbell' as the username (insert rant about "work" vs. "play" identities here)
  514. # [19:26] <jsbell> jgraham: noted, and thanks!
  515. # [19:26] <jgraham> That's your github username?
  516. # [19:26] <jsbell> yep
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  518. # [19:28] <jgraham> Oh, it looks like I can't do that anymore :(
  519. # [19:28] <jgraham> YOu need to ask MikeSmith or darobin or tobie_
  520. # [19:29] <jsbell> Thanks for trying and the pointer.
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  524. # [19:33] <tobie_> jgraham: really?
  525. # [19:34] <tobie_> mmm
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  527. # [19:34] <jgraham> tobie_: As far as I can tell
  528. # [19:34] <jsbell> FTR, my slightly more interesting github identity is 'inexorabletash' and that's a whatwg org member on github.
  529. # [19:35] <tobie_> so which one should I use?
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  531. # [19:36] <tobie_> jsbell: ^
  532. # [19:36] <jsbell> tobie_: (waffling...) let's go with inexorabletash to keep things simple, until someone spanks me.
  533. # [19:38] * jgraham thinks the discipline policy at Google is a bit extreme
  534. # [19:39] <tobie_> done
  535. # [19:40] <jsbell> tobie_: thanks!
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  537. # [19:40] <tobie_> :)
  538. # [19:41] <jsbell> and confirmed/"publicized"/I have the org badge on the page.
  539. # [19:42] <zcorpan_> MikeSmith: is it a good idea to put the -isvalid etc in the filename? i figure the valid status of a test can change over time. isn't it annoying to have tests change names when that happens?
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  548. # [20:03] <zcorpan_> jgraham: "Closed with unmerged commits " https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1
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  550. # [20:04] <jgraham> zcorpan_: Github is annoying
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  553. # [20:04] <zcorpan_> jgraham: also, any idea why critic doesn't close reviews automatically? :-)
  554. # [20:05] <jgraham> I strongly suspect that just means "you rebased and squashed rather than merging a whole pile of fixups directly"
  555. # [20:05] <jgraham> zcorpan_: Seriously none. Sometimes it does, I think. But I need to add some logging to see if I'm even getting the messages
  556. # [20:06] <zcorpan_> ok
  557. # [20:07] <zcorpan_> i'll merge https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/101 now, let's see if the review closes
  558. # [20:08] <zcorpan_> ...nope?
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  563. # [20:13] <zcorpan_> (closed it manually now)
  564. # [20:17] <zcorpan_> -_- i clicked 'raise issue' but read it as 'resolve issue'. And now there's an issue without a title so there's no link to click to resolve it
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  568. # [20:20] <jgraham> zcorpan_: Link?
  569. # [20:21] <zcorpan_> dunno, i've fixed it and navigated away
  570. # [20:24] <jgraham> OK
  571. # [20:24] <jgraham> I thought I had to fix it
  572. # [20:25] <jgraham> I think it might be time to go home
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  674. # Session Close: Fri Sep 20 00:00:00 2013

The end :)