/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-10-03 / end

Options:

1. # Session Start: Thu Oct 03 00:00:01 2013
2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
3. # [00:01] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.107.239)
4. # [00:03] * Quits: reyre (~reyre@CPE7cb21b1e2cf4-CM7cb21b1e2cf1.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
5. # [00:05] * Joins: vcarbune (~vcarbune@84-75-248-2.dclient.hispeed.ch)
6. # [00:09] <rniwa> Hixie_: sorry, I was distracted
7. # [00:10] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
8. # [00:11] <rniwa> Hixie_: I don't have a strong opinion about conformance requirement
9. # [00:13] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
10. # [00:13] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt)
11. # [00:16] * Quits: zdobersek (~zdobersek@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
12. # [00:16] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
13. # [00:17] * encryptd_fractal is now known as wisconsinCypher_
14. # [00:18] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
15. # [00:19] * Quits: wisconsinCypher_ (~encryptd_@66-188-99-174.static.ftbg.wi.charter.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
16. # [00:21] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@host31-51-171-54.range31-51.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
17. # [00:28] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@199.71.174.203) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
18. # [00:32] * Joins: jreading (~Adium@ip98-169-193-48.dc.dc.cox.net)
19. # [00:37] * Joins: WolfieZero (~WolfieZer@neilandkerrie.plus.com)
20. # [00:38] * Quits: decotii (~decotii@hq.croscon.com) (Quit: Leaving)
21. # [00:40] * Quits: WolfieZero (~WolfieZer@neilandkerrie.plus.com) (Client Quit)
22. # [00:43] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.102) (Remote host closed the connection)
23. # [00:43] * Joins: WolfieZero (~WolfieZer@neilandkerrie.plus.com)
24. # [00:44] * Joins: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@75-150-66-249-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
25. # [00:46] * Quits: rego (~rego@231.193.27.77.dynamic.mundo-r.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
26. # [00:46] * Quits: WolfieZero (~WolfieZer@neilandkerrie.plus.com) (Client Quit)
27. # [00:51] * Quits: baku (~baku@66.207.208.102) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
28. # [00:58] * Quits: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@75-150-66-249-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
29. # [00:59] * Joins: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@75.150.66.249)
30. # [01:00] * Joins: jonatha__ (~jonathanm@75-150-66-249-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
31. # [01:01] * Quits: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@75.150.66.249) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
32. # [01:03] * Joins: ebollens (~ebollens@108.60.55.246)
33. # [01:03] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net) (Quit: sicking)
34. # [01:04] * Quits: dbaron_ (~dbaron@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
35. # [01:04] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net)
36. # [01:09] * Joins: a-ja (~Instantbi@70.230.161.149)
37. # [01:10] * Quits: jorgeped_ (~jorgepedr@64-46-23-103.dyn.novuscom.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
38. # [01:11] * Joins: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@17.114.110.18)
39. # [01:13] * Quits: jreading (~Adium@ip98-169-193-48.dc.dc.cox.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
40. # [01:16] * Quits: dcheng (dcheng@nat/google/x-rxqxyqgrdqiwoekf) (Quit: leaving)
41. # [01:16] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Quit: jarek)
42. # [01:16] * Quits: jonatha__ (~jonathanm@75-150-66-249-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
43. # [01:19] * Quits: vcarbune (~vcarbune@84-75-248-2.dclient.hispeed.ch) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
44. # [01:19] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.209)
45. # [01:20] * Joins: dcheng (dcheng@nat/google/x-rzcpxyqzunuccses)
46. # [01:21] * Joins: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@75-150-66-249-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
47. # [01:23] * Quits: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@75-150-66-249-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
48. # [01:23] * Joins: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@75-150-66-249-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
49. # [01:24] * Quits: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@75-150-66-249-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
50. # [01:24] * Joins: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@75-150-66-249-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
51. # [01:25] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@gateway.creuna.se) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
52. # [01:29] * Quits: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@75-150-66-249-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
53. # [01:31] * Joins: jreading (~Adium@ip98-169-193-48.dc.dc.cox.net)
54. # [01:38] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt)
55. # [01:38] * Quits: jreading (~Adium@ip98-169-193-48.dc.dc.cox.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
56. # [01:39] * Joins: alecf_ (~alecf@216.239.45.68)
57. # [01:45] * Quits: TuRnaD0 (~Thunderbi@x1-6-e0-46-9a-1e-fe-ca.k368.webspeed.dk) (Remote host closed the connection)
58. # [01:53] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.107.239) (Quit: weinig)
59. # [01:56] * Quits: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@17.114.110.18) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
60. # [01:58] * Quits: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-ifkfqrwpskiikdyi) (Quit: There's no place like home...)
61. # [02:01] * Joins: danjesus (~danjesus@177.102.189.227)
62. # [02:04] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
63. # [02:05] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt)
64. # [02:07] * Quits: alecf_ (~alecf@216.239.45.68) (Quit: alecf_)
65. # [02:08] * Quits: WeirdAl (~chatzilla@g2spf.ask.info) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20130910160258])
66. # [02:09] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
67. # [02:15] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
68. # [02:18] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@192.150.22.55) (Quit: Leaving.)
69. # [02:21] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
70. # [02:22] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.217.25)
71. # [02:30] * Joins: Karate (~Karate@190.189.230.229)
72. # [02:31] <zewt> hooray @ people trying to squelch discussions they don't like by pushing them to lists nobody reads
73. # [02:32] * Quits: danjesus (~danjesus@177.102.189.227) (Remote host closed the connection)
74. # [02:33] * Joins: danjesus (~danjesus@177.102.189.227)
75. # [02:35] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
76. # [02:41] * Joins: alecf_ (~alecf@207.198.105.23)
77. # [02:44] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
78. # [02:46] * Joins: mven (~mven@ip68-224-15-53.lv.lv.cox.net)
79. # [02:47] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@66.207.208.102)
80. # [02:51] * Joins: reyre (~reyre@CPE7cb21b1e2cf4-CM7cb21b1e2cf1.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
81. # [02:59] * Quits: eminor (~eminor@p548CFBEE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: eminor)
82. # [03:09] * Quits: GPHemsley (~GPHemsley@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley) (Quit: Leaving)
83. # [03:10] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.217.25) (Quit: weinig)
84. # Session Close: Thu Oct 03 03:16:24 2013
85. #
86. # Session Start: Thu Oct 03 03:16:24 2013
87. # Session Ident: #whatwg
88. # [03:16] * Disconnected
89. # [03:19] * Attempting to rejoin channel #whatwg
90. # [03:19] * Rejoined channel #whatwg
91. # [03:19] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ & http://logbot.glob.com.au/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
92. # [03:19] * Set by smaug____!~chatzilla@GGZYYCCCXVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi on Wed Mar 21 17:14:24
93. # [03:23] * Quits: alecf_ (~alecf@207.198.105.23) (Quit: alecf_)
94. # [03:24] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
95. # [03:26] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
96. # [03:26] * Joins: alecf_ (~alecf@207.198.105.23)
97. # [03:29] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
98. # [03:30] * Quits: ebollens (~ebollens@108.60.55.246) (Quit: ebollens)
99. # [03:33] * Joins: Goplat (~goplat@reactos/developer/Goplat)
100. # [03:42] * Quits: alecf_ (~alecf@207.198.105.23) (Quit: alecf_)
101. # [03:49] * Quits: baku (~baku@209.226.25.101) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
102. # [03:51] * Quits: danjesus (~danjesus@177.102.189.227) (Remote host closed the connection)
103. # [03:53] * Quits: KevinMarks2 (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: The computer fell asleep)
104. # [03:53] * Joins: danjesus (~danjesus@177.102.189.227)
105. # [03:55] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
106. # [03:55] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Max SendQ exceeded)
107. # [03:55] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
108. # [03:55] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Max SendQ exceeded)
109. # [03:56] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
110. # [03:56] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Max SendQ exceeded)
111. # [03:56] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
112. # [03:57] * Quits: danjesus (~danjesus@177.102.189.227) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
113. # [04:03] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
114. # [04:05] * Quits: reyre (~reyre@CPE7cb21b1e2cf4-CM7cb21b1e2cf1.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
115. # [04:18] * ojan is now known as ojan_away
116. # [04:18] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@50-0-164-83.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
117. # [04:27] * Quits: Karate (~Karate@190.189.230.229) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
118. # [04:29] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
119. # [04:29] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Max SendQ exceeded)
120. # [04:30] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
121. # [04:30] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Max SendQ exceeded)
122. # [04:30] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
123. # [04:30] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Max SendQ exceeded)
124. # [04:30] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
125. # [04:31] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Max SendQ exceeded)
126. # [04:31] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
127. # [04:31] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Max SendQ exceeded)
128. # [04:31] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
129. # [04:31] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Max SendQ exceeded)
130. # [04:32] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
131. # [04:32] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Max SendQ exceeded)
132. # [04:32] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
133. # [04:32] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Max SendQ exceeded)
134. # [04:33] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
135. # [04:33] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Max SendQ exceeded)
136. # [04:33] <MikeSmith> cabanier: regarding http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2013Oct/0029.html it seems like it might be helpful if you actually responded to some of the specific questions Dominic has asked, and the specific proposals he's made
137. # [04:33] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
138. # [04:34] <cabanier> I did't get that reply
139. # [04:35] * Joins: wisconsinCypher_ (~encryptd_@71-89-74-12.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com)
140. # [04:39] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
141. # [04:41] <MikeSmith> cabanier: what reply? you didn't reply to anything he wrote on his previous message to you in that thread
142. # [04:41] <cabanier> MikeSmith: yes. I didn't get his reply
143. # [04:41] <MikeSmith> " If we added a canvas fallback element as a parameter to scrollPathIntoView,
144. # [04:41] <MikeSmith> I don't think we'd need drawCustomFocusRing."
145. # [04:41] <Hixie_> the bottleneck here is me, anyway, not dominic
146. # [04:42] <cabanier> MikeSmith: sent my reply
147. # [04:42] * Joins: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@c-50-157-151-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
148. # [04:42] <cabanier> Hixie_: I think we can all agree it's confusing either way. Dominic's proposal is just more confusing :-(
149. # [04:43] * Joins: ImBcmDth (~Jon@oftn/member/ImBcmDth)
150. # [04:44] <cabanier> Hixie_: I guess the spec doesn't say that the focus area should scroll into view but isn't that expected behavior?
151. # [04:45] <Hixie_> no, that would be terrible
152. # [04:45] <MikeSmith> Hixie_: from where I sit it seems to me we may have lost sight of the original problem that Rich was claiming needed to be solved, which this never seems to have been anything more than a workaround for to begin with
153. # [04:45] <Hixie_> cabanier: imagine if you focus a control on an animated canvas and then scroll it out of view, it shouldn't keep scrolling back 60 times a second
154. # [04:45] <Hixie_> MikeSmith: i'm not really sure what the original problem was, to be honest
155. # [04:45] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt)
156. # [04:46] <cabanier> Hixie_: that would only happen if you focus to it. Once focused, you don't scroll back
157. # [04:46] <cabanier> Hixie_: that's standard browser behavior
158. # [04:47] <Hixie_> how could drawFocusRing() know if you have just focused it?
159. # [04:47] <MikeSmith> also Dominic has made the point that there's nothing canvas-specific about the problem so there should be nothing canvas-specific about the proper solution
160. # [04:47] <cabanier> Hixie_: the browser knows. by calling drawFocusRing, you associate a region of the canvas with a control
161. # [04:48] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
162. # [04:48] <Hixie_> draw focus ring just draws and update the AT data, it doesn't associate regions. are confusing it with the hit region stuff?
163. # [04:48] <cabanier> Hixie_: no
164. # [04:49] <cabanier> Hixie_: by calling the focus ring method, you tell the browser that the underlying element has a certain path
165. # [04:49] <MikeSmith> Hixie_: not you not knowing what the original problem was doesn't argue well for this being kept in the sited, or worse yet, shipped :-)
166. # [04:50] <cabanier> Hixie_: so the accessibity software can draw boxes around it. You don't have to continually call drawFocusRing to make that happen
167. # [04:50] <MikeSmith> *in the spec
168. # [04:50] <Hixie_> MikeSmith: you any idea how many problems i'm discussing at the same time? ain't no way i can remember this stuff :-)
169. # [04:50] <cabanier> brb
170. # [04:51] <Hixie_> cabanier: you continually call drawFocusRing to... draw the focus ring
171. # [04:51] <Hixie_> cabanier: each frame of the animation
172. # [04:52] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.217.25) (Quit: weinig)
173. # [04:52] <MikeSmith> Hixie_: not blaming you. just saying this has been kind of a mess from the beginning. but it's one thing to be talking about a mess, and another thing to actually be implementing it and shipping it
174. # [04:53] <Hixie_> i don't really understand what the mess is here
175. # [04:53] <Hixie_> this API seems to basically work fine
176. # [04:53] <Hixie_> it's not pretty, but nobody has suggested anything prettier, so...
177. # [04:54] <MikeSmith> Dominic has suggested just dropping it
178. # [04:54] <Hixie_> that's not prettier
179. # [04:54] <Hixie_> that's even worse
180. # [04:54] <Hixie_> "sorry people with disabilities, guess you can't see what's focused"
181. # [04:55] <MikeSmith> that's already the case with non-canvas content
182. # [04:55] * Joins: DiegoViane (~androirc@177.108.178.12)
183. # [04:56] <Hixie_> how so?
184. # [04:56] <Hixie_> non-canvas content is handled by the UA
185. # [04:56] <MikeSmith> and clearly you're not describing Dominic's sentiment
186. # [04:57] <MikeSmith> when I'm back at my PC I'll pull up copies of Dominic's message s in that thread
187. # [04:58] <Hixie_> k...
188. # [04:58] <MikeSmith> as far as the real problem not being specific to canvas
189. # [04:59] <cabanier> Hixie_: back
190. # [04:59] * Quits: DiegoViane (~androirc@177.108.178.12) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
191. # [04:59] <Hixie_> MikeSmith: do you mean http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2013Sep/0268.html ?
192. # [04:59] <cabanier> Hixie_: yes. the author draws the ring
193. # [05:00] * Joins: DiegoViane (~androirc@187.20.62.186)
194. # [05:01] <cabanier> Hixie_: but also tell the UA where the bounds of the element are
195. # [05:01] <cabanier> Hixie_: this allows the UA to scroll to that area of the canvas
196. # [05:01] <Hixie_> cabanier: my point is just that you can't scroll 60 times a second.
197. # [05:01] <MikeSmith> Hixie_: yeah, exactly that one. that message from Dominic
198. # [05:02] <cabanier> Hixie_: and the a11y software to show where the area of the fallback content is
199. # [05:02] <Hixie_> MikeSmith: i haven't yet replied to that one (as noted earlier, i'm the bottleneck here) but he's wrong that there's no settings to cause the default rendered focus ring to be different.
200. # [05:02] <Hixie_> MikeSmith: e.g. on mac you can change its color, on windows you can change its width, etc.
201. # [05:02] <cabanier> Hixie_: well, what happens if you have a focused HTML element and you animate it offscreen?
202. # [05:03] <Hixie_> cabanier: what does that mean?
203. # [05:03] <MikeSmith> ok
204. # [05:05] <cabanier> Hixie_: does the browser scroll to a focused element if you move it offscreen?
205. # [05:05] <cabanier> Hixie_: I haven't tried it but likely not
206. # [05:06] <cabanier> Hixie_: so, the browser won't scroll either to update the focus ring. it should be the same behavior
207. # [05:07] <Hixie_> the reason it doesn't scroll when you animate a focused element off screen is that the browser is not scrolling to it when it draws the focus ring
208. # [05:07] <Hixie_> just like drawFocusRing() doesn't scroll to it when you draw the focus ring
209. # [05:07] <cabanier> Hixie_: it does :-)
210. # [05:08] * Quits: DiegoViane (~androirc@187.20.62.186) (Remote host closed the connection)
211. # [05:08] <cabanier> Hixie_: well, it *should*
212. # [05:08] <Hixie_> gotta go, bbiab
213. # [05:08] <cabanier> Hixie_: I think that's what Dominic is saying too except he just wants the scrolling
214. # [05:08] <cabanier> k
215. # [05:10] <cabanier> Hixie_: ah. Dominic's code doesn't scroll!
216. # [05:11] <cabanier> Hixie_: ok. we need to add that to the spec
217. # [05:11] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
218. # [05:12] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt)
219. # [05:13] * Joins: marcosc_ (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt)
220. # [05:13] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
221. # [05:17] * Joins: danjesus (~danjesus@177.102.189.227)
222. # [05:23] * Joins: jorgepedret (~jorgepedr@70-36-56-110.dyn.novuscom.net)
223. # [05:27] * Joins: DiegoViane (~DiegoVian@187.20.62.186)
224. # [05:28] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-58-8-66-120.revip2.asianet.co.th)
225. # [05:29] * Quits: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@c-50-157-151-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
226. # [05:30] * Joins: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@c-50-157-151-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
227. # [05:30] * Quits: [[zz]] (~q@node-m80.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
228. # [05:30] <DiegoViane> Zzz
229. # [05:34] * Quits: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@c-50-157-151-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
230. # [05:39] * Quits: marcosc_ (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
231. # [05:39] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt)
232. # [05:40] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
233. # [05:40] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@66.207.208.102) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
234. # [05:41] * Quits: wisconsinCypher_ (~encryptd_@71-89-74-12.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
235. # [05:44] * Joins: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@199-188-193-107.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net)
236. # [05:44] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
237. # [05:44] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
238. # [05:45] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
239. # [05:52] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt)
240. # [05:53] <Hixie_> cabanier: it makes no sense for _painting_ code which is called 60 times a second to scroll.
241. # [05:53] <cabanier> Hixie_: no
242. # [05:53] <cabanier> Hixie_: you only scroll if you're offscreen
243. # [05:54] <Hixie_> cabanier: it makes no sense for _painting_ code which is called 60 times a second to scroll, whether or not you're off-screen
244. # [05:54] <cabanier> Hixie_: once onscreen, you never scroll again
245. # [05:54] <Hixie_> so the user scrolls it off screen and you scroll again?
246. # [05:54] <Hixie_> that makes no sense
247. # [05:54] <Hixie_> painting code shouldn't scroll
248. # [05:54] <cabanier> Hixie_: only if you tab again
249. # [05:54] <Hixie_> the method is called every 16ms, it doesn't know if the element was focused already or not
250. # [05:55] <Hixie_> i just don't understand why this would even be something we'd consider
251. # [05:55] <Hixie_> scrolling happens, if it happens, when the user focuses the control; there's other APIs for that
252. # [05:55] <cabanier> the method doesn't know, but the browser does
253. # [05:55] <cabanier> what API?
254. # [05:55] <Hixie_> ...the method is the browser.
255. # [05:55] <Hixie_> scrollPathIntoView(), for instance
256. # [05:56] * Quits: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@199-188-193-107.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
257. # [05:56] <cabanier> there's no API when you tab into a control. the browser scrolls to it automatically
258. # [05:56] <Hixie_> or just scrollIntoView(), depending on what needs to be scrolled
259. # [05:56] <Hixie_> sure, just like there's no non-canvas API when you tab into a control to draw the control's focus ring.
260. # [05:56] <Hixie_> if you're creating a control in canvas, you have to implement the control
261. # [05:57] <cabanier> sure
262. # [05:57] <cabanier> but drawfocusring lets you associate a path with a focused control
263. # [05:57] <cabanier> so you should scroll towards that path
264. # [05:58] <cabanier> otherwise the API is not good
265. # [05:58] <Hixie_> drawFocusRing doesn't associate a path with a focused control. it just draws the focus ring and possibly adjusts AT parameters.
266. # [05:59] <cabanier> but should a focus ring be scrolled so it's visible?
267. # [05:59] <cabanier> it should follow the same convention as regular focus rings
268. # [05:59] <Hixie_> depends on what the author wants. if the author wants that, then that's what the scroll*() APIs are for
269. # [06:00] <cabanier> why would you ever not want that?
270. # [06:01] <cabanier> if an element becomes focused, it should always be scrolled into view
271. # [06:01] <cabanier> while focused, it's ok to scroll out of view
272. # [06:02] <cabanier> too bad Rich is on vacation
273. # [06:06] <Hixie_> suppose the user presses some hot key that brings in a control, sliding it in from the top of page. it needs the focus ring drawn on the whole time, but you only want to scroll the viewport to the final location.
274. # [06:07] <cabanier> yes
275. # [06:07] <cabanier> that would be problematic
276. # [06:07] <cabanier> it would only scroll to where it comes in today
277. # [06:07] <cabanier> doesn't that happen in HTML too?
278. # [06:08] <cabanier> (I've never tried that)
279. # [06:11] * Joins: kangil (~kangil@210.94.41.89)
280. # [06:14] <cabanier> Hixie_: I just tried it. the HTML control disappears
281. # [06:16] <cabanier> com'on jsfiddle
282. # [06:17] <cabanier> http://codepen.io/anon/pen/ckshA
283. # [06:18] <cabanier> tab to the controls. the second control will fly offscreen when focused
284. # [06:18] <cabanier> if you turn off the transition, the browser will scroll
285. # [06:18] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
286. # [06:19] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt)
287. # [06:20] * Joins: marcosc_ (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt)
288. # [06:20] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
289. # [06:32] * Quits: WesleyMcClane_ (~quassel@host227-91-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
290. # [06:33] * Joins: WesleyMcClane (~quassel@host227-91-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
291. # [06:37] * Quits: WesleyMcClane (~quassel@host227-91-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
292. # [06:38] * Joins: WesleyMcClane (~quassel@host227-91-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
293. # [06:40] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
294. # [06:43] * Quits: danjesus (~danjesus@177.102.189.227) (Remote host closed the connection)
295. # [06:45] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
296. # [06:46] * Quits: marcosc_ (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
297. # [06:46] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt)
298. # [06:47] * Joins: marcosc_ (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt)
299. # [06:47] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
300. # [07:02] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@host31-51-171-54.range31-51.btcentralplus.com)
301. # [07:04] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
302. # [07:10] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@70-36-140-29.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
303. # [07:11] * Joins: rtc (~accessPoi@46.217.87.186)
304. # [07:11] <zcorpan> Hixie_: re parameter to scrollPathIntoView, note that scrollIntoView et al now has a parameter to hint about smooth scrolling
305. # [07:13] * Quits: marcosc_ (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
306. # [07:13] * Joins: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt)
307. # [07:15] * Quits: rtc (~accessPoi@46.217.87.186) (Client Quit)
308. # [07:18] * Quits: marcosc (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
309. # [07:18] * Joins: rtc (~accessPoi@46.217.87.186)
310. # [07:21] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@c-67-180-9-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
311. # [07:30] <zewt> heh, i recall having major migraine-level headaches trying to deal with old android browser's scrollTo doing async smooth scrolling instead of immediate scrolling
312. # [07:32] * Parts: a-ja (~Instantbi@70.230.161.149)
313. # [07:32] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
314. # [07:33] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
315. # [07:33] * Joins: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@199-188-193-107.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net)
316. # [07:37] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
317. # [07:38] * Quits: kangil (~kangil@210.94.41.89) (Quit: Leaving)
318. # [07:41] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
319. # [07:41] * Joins: WesleyMcClane_ (~quassel@host42-95-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
320. # [07:43] * Quits: WesleyMcClane (~quassel@host227-91-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
321. # [07:45] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
322. # [07:46] * Quits: malcolmva (~malcolmva@c-67-180-203-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
323. # [08:06] * Quits: rtc (~accessPoi@46.217.87.186) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
324. # [08:12] * Joins: rtc (~accessPoi@46.217.87.186)
325. # [08:15] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@host31-51-171-54.range31-51.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
326. # [08:20] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
327. # [08:29] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@24.130.60.35)
328. # [08:30] * Quits: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@199-188-193-107.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
329. # [08:36] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@195-132-112-181.rev.numericable.fr)
330. # [08:39] * Joins: marcosc_ (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt)
331. # [08:41] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
332. # [08:43] * Quits: Goplat (~goplat@reactos/developer/Goplat) (Remote host closed the connection)
333. # [08:46] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
334. # [08:48] * Quits: marcosc_ (~marcosc@bl10-106-16.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
335. # [09:00] * Joins: zdobersek (~zdobersek@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si)
336. # [09:00] * Joins: rego (~rego@231.193.27.77.dynamic.mundo-r.com)
337. # [09:03] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@110.225-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
338. # [09:06] * Quits: rtc (~accessPoi@46.217.87.186) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
339. # [09:09] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@c-67-180-9-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: sicking)
340. # [09:13] * Joins: rtc (~accessPoi@46.217.87.186)
341. # [09:15] * Joins: yoav (~yoav@sdo26-1-78-245-148-181.fbx.proxad.net)
342. # [09:24] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@94.137.124.2)
343. # [09:30] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
344. # [09:36] * Joins: WolfieZero (~WolfieZer@87.124.34.97)
345. # [09:41] * Joins: mitemitreski (~mitemitre@212.120.17.179)
346. # [09:41] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
347. # [09:46] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
348. # [09:58] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@50-0-164-83.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
349. # [10:05] * Quits: Lachy (~textual@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
350. # [10:10] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@70-36-140-29.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
351. # [10:15] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@81.143.60.194)
352. # [10:16] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@195-132-112-181.rev.numericable.fr) (Quit: bholley)
353. # [10:19] * Joins: tomasf (~tomasf@77.72.97.10.c.fiberdirekt.net)
354. # [10:19] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: btw thanks for the review of the conformance-checker tests
355. # [10:20] <zcorpan> np
356. # [10:21] <zcorpan> ping me when you have more
357. # [10:21] <MikeSmith> will do
358. # [10:22] <MikeSmith> in the mean time as far a validator stuff I'm planning to add a build option for running the validator with the parser in non-streaming mode
359. # [10:22] <zcorpan> why?
360. # [10:23] <MikeSmith> for people who want to run a service that can process docs with non-streaming error recovery
361. # [10:23] <MikeSmith> so that it doesn't stop with "Can't recover from last error" messages
362. # [10:23] <MikeSmith> bad idea?
363. # [10:23] <zcorpan> have people asked for that?
364. # [10:24] <MikeSmith> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-validator/2013Sep/0041.html
365. # [10:24] <MikeSmith> "I have to pay extra money for each of these rechecks. As an end user, what I expect is being reported for all errors found at the document, and if I have to pay several times to get a full validation report of my document, I find that unfair."
366. # [10:25] <zcorpan> v.nu also skips subtrees of misplaced elements
367. # [10:26] <MikeSmith> you mean v.nu as compared to the W3C service?
368. # [10:26] <Ms2ger> People pay to validate their stuff?
369. # [10:26] <MikeSmith> heh
370. # [10:26] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: some people
371. # [10:26] <zcorpan> no, both
372. # [10:26] <Ms2ger> Fascinating
373. # [10:27] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs164155.pp.htv.fi)
374. # [10:27] <Ms2ger> On another note, I'll be intermittently available from this afternoon, like the rest of Mozilla
375. # [10:27] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: that's the same case, right? it wouldn't skip them in non-streaming mode
376. # [10:28] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: no
377. # [10:28] <zcorpan> hold on
378. # [10:28] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: please do some magic in your remaining time today to up-priortize the build bug I reported
379. # [10:29] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: consider <div><li><span invalid=""></span></li></div>
380. # [10:29] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, number?
381. # [10:29] * MikeSmith nods
382. # [10:29] <zcorpan> Error: Element li not allowed as child of element div in this context. (Suppressing further errors from this subtree.)
383. # [10:29] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: hang on will get it
384. # [10:29] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, have you tried turning it off and on again? ;)
385. # [10:30] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: 923196
386. # [10:30] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: tried kicking it
387. # [10:30] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: lemme try that right now in non-streaming mode
388. # [10:31] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: i think it has nothing to do with streaming :-)
389. # [10:31] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: hsivonen implemented the suppressing to make the validator more useful
390. # [10:32] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@84-199-88-151.iFiber.telenet-ops.be)
391. # [10:32] <zcorpan> because it's useless to give lots of errors of a subtree that might go away when the author fixes the first error
392. # [10:32] <MikeSmith> ok
393. # [10:33] <MikeSmith> yeah, same error in non-streaming mode
394. # [10:33] <MikeSmith> and yeah I see your point
395. # [10:33] <zcorpan> maybe people expect the validator to whine about the invalid="" attribute there, though, i dunno
396. # [10:35] <zcorpan> i guess the guy who pays per validation wants as many errors as possible
397. # [10:35] <MikeSmith> heh
398. # [10:35] <MikeSmith> yeah, though it sounds funny to put it that way
399. # [10:35] * Joins: Lachy (~textual@213.166.174.2)
400. # [10:36] <MikeSmith> anyway I was not planning to spend a bunch of time on it
401. # [10:36] <MikeSmith> implementing the switch to provide a non-streaming mode would probably take me 30 minutes
402. # [10:37] * Joins: vcarbune (~vcarbune@84-75-248-2.dclient.hispeed.ch)
403. # [10:37] <zcorpan> maybe you could suggest a different payment strategy, so instead of number of validations, you pay for actual processing time in the validator.
404. # [10:38] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@17.212.154.114) (Quit: rniwa)
405. # [10:38] <MikeSmith> interesting
406. # [10:38] <MikeSmith> yeah that would make a lot more sense
407. # [10:39] <MikeSmith> a person whose page has 900 errors on it will take more time to process than a person whose page has one or none
408. # [10:39] <MikeSmith> and more machine resources
409. # [10:41] <zcorpan> isn't it more about the size of the page? the same checks need to be made whether it gives an error or not
410. # [10:42] <MikeSmith> not for the case of microsyntax checking
411. # [10:42] <MikeSmith> and probably other cases too
412. # [10:42] <MikeSmith> but yeah I guess it's much more about the size of the page
413. # [10:42] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
414. # [10:42] <MikeSmith> in general
415. # [10:42] <MikeSmith> ah I see what you're saying
416. # [10:42] <MikeSmith> yeah even for microsyntax checking
417. # [10:46] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
418. # [10:52] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@14.98.178.201)
419. # [10:53] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
420. # [10:54] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: this is interesting: "The W3C errors jumped to 45 errors so I undo that action." http://wordpress.org/support/topic/w3c-validation-stray-end-tag-div-errors
421. # [10:54] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: one fatal error is considered less bad than 45 non-fatal errors
422. # [10:54] * MikeSmith looks
423. # [10:55] <MikeSmith> heh
424. # [10:55] <MikeSmith> wow
425. # [10:58] <MikeSmith> I can seriously imagine paying customers complaining about that actually
426. # [10:58] <MikeSmith> "I paid you last month for validation of my page and it said I had only one error. This month I validate the same page and it says I have 45 errors!!"
427. # [10:58] <MikeSmith> regression
428. # [10:59] <zcorpan> so i guess that's a bad property of suppressing errors in general, it's moving the perceived goalposts which is probably very depressing
429. # [10:59] <MikeSmith> very glad I'm not involved at all with trying to monetize validation
430. # [10:59] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: yeah
431. # [11:00] <MikeSmith> the bottom line is that many people are validating their pages for the wrong reasons to begin with
432. # [11:00] * Joins: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@c-50-157-151-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
433. # [11:01] <zcorpan> like "one error? sure lemme fix it. 45 errors!? GTFO if i fix one more will it be 900 errors?" :-)
434. # [11:02] <MikeSmith> haha
435. # [11:02] <MikeSmith> yeah, like that
436. # [11:04] * Quits: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@c-50-157-151-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
437. # [11:04] * Joins: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@c-50-157-151-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
438. # [11:04] * Quits: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@c-50-157-151-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
439. # [11:05] <zcorpan> i recall hsivonen talking about a parsing mode that is streaming but doesn't do the spec's recovery for non-streamable errors (a few years ago)
440. # [11:05] * Joins: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@c-50-157-151-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
441. # [11:06] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@80.215.0.202)
442. # [11:06] <MikeSmith> huh? that sounds
443. # [11:07] <MikeSmith> ...just like the existing default behavior
444. # [11:07] <MikeSmith> well not default in the parser, but default in the v.nu code
445. # [11:08] <zcorpan> i mean doing different recovery than the spec. so e.g. <body><html class=foo> would not set the class attribute on the root element, </body> </html>x would drop the space and insert the x in body
446. # [11:08] <MikeSmith> ah
447. # [11:08] * Quits: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@c-50-157-151-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
448. # [11:10] <zcorpan> it would not validate the attributes on the <html>, but it would be streaming and non-fatal
449. # [11:10] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
450. # [11:10] <MikeSmith> yeah
451. # [11:10] <MikeSmith> I don't remember that
452. # [11:11] * Joins: WesleyMcClane (~quassel@host18-142-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
453. # [11:11] <MikeSmith> was it just a thought experiment or had he implemented something?
454. # [11:12] <zcorpan> it was probably around the time the spec's parser was first specified
455. # [11:12] <zcorpan> or i might be making it up
456. # [11:13] * Quits: WesleyMcClane_ (~quassel@host42-95-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
457. # [11:15] * Joins: jpn (~jpn@pickles.tp.telepac.pt)
458. # [11:18] * Joins: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@c-50-157-151-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
459. # [11:20] * Quits: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@c-50-157-151-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
460. # [11:22] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: there's also the opposite problem: a typoed formatting end tag can cause lots of errors because it gets reopened everywhere
461. # [11:23] <zcorpan> that's also something that non-spec recovery could fix (never reopen formatting elements)
462. # [11:24] * Joins: yoav_ (~yoav@37.161.236.171)
463. # [11:26] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
464. # [11:27] * Quits: yoav (~yoav@sdo26-1-78-245-148-181.fbx.proxad.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
465. # [11:28] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: yeah
466. # [11:33] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@84-199-88-151.iFiber.telenet-ops.be) (Quit: brb)
467. # [11:33] <MikeSmith> I think there are a number of cases where having non-spec handling would give more intuitive errors on the validator
468. # [11:34] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@84-199-88-151.iFiber.telenet-ops.be)
469. # [11:34] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs164155.pp.htv.fi) (Read error: Operation timed out)
470. # [11:40] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@84-199-88-151.iFiber.telenet-ops.be) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-7.1450hg.fc19 [XULRunner 24.0/20130916094533])
471. # [11:40] <zcorpan> <p><ul></ul></p> could have a better message too, e.g. by keeping track of whether the last <p> was implicitly closed and by what
472. # [11:41] * Joins: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron)
473. # [11:42] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
474. # [11:44] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@14.98.178.201) (Quit: Leaving...)
475. # [11:47] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
476. # [11:49] * Joins: josemanuel (~josemanue@72.Red-83-40-175.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
477. # [11:51] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-58-8-66-120.revip2.asianet.co.th) (Quit: จรลี จรลา)
478. # [11:52] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@80.215.0.202) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
479. # [11:55] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: yeah
480. # [11:59] * Quits: j_wright (~jwright@unaffiliated/j-wright/x-9145068) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
481. # [12:00] <MikeSmith> that one seems tough if we also want to do the same for similar elements that can implicitly be closed
482. # [12:00] <MikeSmith> potentially have to keep a lot of information around in the parser
483. # [12:03] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20130910160258])
484. # [12:04] * Joins: yoav__ (~yoav@sdo26-1-78-245-148-181.fbx.proxad.net)
485. # [12:08] * Quits: yoav_ (~yoav@37.161.236.171) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
486. # [12:09] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@62-50-221-33.client.stsn.net)
487. # [12:11] * Quits: yutak (~yutak@2401:fa00:4:1004:26be:5ff:fe0d:e1d5) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
488. # [12:14] * Joins: WesleyMcClane_ (~quassel@host7-139-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
489. # [12:15] * Joins: birtles (~chatzilla@84-199-88-151.iFiber.telenet-ops.be)
490. # [12:17] * Quits: WesleyMcClane (~quassel@host18-142-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
491. # [12:18] * Joins: espadrine (~ttyl@acces1046.res.insa-lyon.fr)
492. # [12:29] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
493. # [12:30] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
494. # [12:33] * Joins: _graham_ (~Graham@cpc4-shef10-2-0-cust485.barn.cable.virginmedia.com)
495. # [12:33] * Joins: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@c-50-157-151-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
496. # [12:39] <zcorpan> there's a small set of elements that can be implicitly closed, and you only need one flag per element type
497. # [12:40] <zcorpan> well, and a position for the last token that closed it
498. # [12:40] <zcorpan> but still, not a lot of information
499. # [12:41] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@62-50-221-33.client.stsn.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
500. # [12:42] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
501. # [12:42] <zcorpan> maybe you need to keep track of the <p>'s parent too so you can reset the flag when the parent is closed
502. # [12:43] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
503. # [12:47] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@71-10-169-73.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
504. # [12:50] * Joins: baku (~baku@209.226.25.101)
505. # [12:57] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
506. # [12:57] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
507. # [13:03] * Quits: Lachy (~textual@213.166.174.2) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
508. # [13:05] * Joins: Lachy (~textual@213.166.174.2)
509. # [13:09] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-yeiycvswvgmgwfji)
510. # [13:09] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-yeiycvswvgmgwfji) (Changing host)
511. # [13:09] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
512. # [13:10] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
513. # [13:14] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@110.225-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
514. # [13:15] * Joins: digao (~DiegoVian@179.202.163.106)
515. # [13:16] * Quits: ricea (~ricea@2401:fa00:4:1000:b6b5:2fff:feca:47f8) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
516. # [13:19] * Quits: DiegoViane (~DiegoVian@187.20.62.186) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
517. # [13:26] * yoav__ is now known as yoav
518. # [13:31] * Quits: digao (~DiegoVian@179.202.163.106) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
519. # [13:31] * Joins: DiegoViane (~DiegoVian@179.202.175.94)
520. # [13:33] * Quits: DiegoViane (~DiegoVian@179.202.175.94) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
521. # [13:34] * Quits: WesleyMcClane_ (~quassel@host7-139-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
522. # [13:35] * Joins: DiegoViane (~DiegoVian@179.200.174.37)
523. # [13:36] * Joins: WesleyMcClane (~quassel@host7-139-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
524. # [13:38] * Joins: WesleyMcClane_ (~quassel@host159-94-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
525. # [13:40] * Quits: DiegoViane (~DiegoVian@179.200.174.37) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
526. # [13:41] * Joins: DiegoViane (~DiegoVian@179.200.177.234)
527. # [13:41] * Quits: WesleyMcClane (~quassel@host7-139-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
528. # [13:44] * Quits: DiegoViane (~DiegoVian@179.200.177.234) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
529. # [13:46] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@84-199-88-151.iFiber.telenet-ops.be)
530. # [13:47] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: yeah
531. # [13:49] * Joins: DiegoViane (~DiegoVian@179.200.177.234)
532. # [13:50] * Quits: lerc (~quassel@121.75.145.115) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
533. # [13:51] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
534. # [13:53] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: btw about the "Suppressing further errors from this subtree." case that behavior's basically hard-coded into our branch of jing so I couldn't easily provide an option for overriding it even if I wanted to
535. # [13:54] <zcorpan> why would you provide an option?
536. # [13:56] <MikeSmith> I dunno, because that'd be the next thing that somebody would ask for after the recover-from-non-streaming-error option
537. # [13:56] * Quits: DiegoViane (~DiegoVian@179.200.177.234) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
538. # [13:56] * Joins: DiegoViane (~DiegoVian@179.200.177.234)
539. # [13:57] * Quits: DiegoViane (~DiegoVian@179.200.177.234) (Client Quit)
540. # [13:57] <gsnedders> zcorpan: Also consider the case where one mis-closed element causes a ton of parse errors because the stack of open elements isn't what is intended.
541. # [13:57] <zcorpan> i wouldn't provide any options for either of those :-)
542. # [13:58] <gsnedders> idk! I'm just trying to be useful!
543. # [13:58] * gsnedders curls up and cries
544. # [13:58] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@14.98.26.36)
545. # [13:59] <zcorpan> gsnedders: ? i was replying to MikeSmith
546. # [13:59] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@101.164.144.53)
547. # [13:59] <zcorpan> gsnedders: what case do you mean?
548. # [14:00] <gsnedders> Oh, don't mind me. I'm not that deeply thinking about this. I could be totally wrong.
549. # [14:04] * MikeSmith curls up and cries while puffing on a blunt
550. # [14:10] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
551. # [14:19] * Quits: WolfieZero (~WolfieZer@87.124.34.97) (Quit: Time to part ways!)
552. # [14:19] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@212.213.198.101)
553. # [14:20] * Joins: decotii (~decotii@hq.croscon.com)
554. # [14:20] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@212.213.198.101) (Client Quit)
555. # [14:20] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@212.213.198.101)
556. # [14:22] * Joins: WolfieZero (~WolfieZer@87.124.34.97)
557. # [14:26] * Joins: birtles_ (~chatzilla@84-199-88-151.iFiber.telenet-ops.be)
558. # [14:29] * Quits: birtles (~chatzilla@84-199-88-151.iFiber.telenet-ops.be) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
559. # [14:29] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@212.213.198.101) (Quit: Reconnecting…)
560. # [14:29] * birtles_ is now known as birtles
561. # [14:29] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@212.213.198.101)
562. # [14:30] * Quits: baku (~baku@209.226.25.101) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
563. # [14:35] * Quits: WolfieZero (~WolfieZer@87.124.34.97) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
564. # [14:36] * Quits: nessy (~silviapf@101.164.144.53) (Quit: Leaving.)
565. # [14:40] * Quits: brion (~brion@wikipedia/pdpc.professional.brion) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
566. # [14:43] * Joins: brion (~brion@wikipedia/pdpc.professional.brion)
567. # [14:44] * Joins: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com)
568. # [14:45] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@14.98.26.36) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
569. # [14:46] * Quits: Somatt_wrk_ (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
570. # [14:50] * Quits: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@c-50-157-151-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
571. # [14:50] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@212.213.198.101) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
572. # [14:50] * Joins: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@c-50-157-151-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
573. # [14:55] * Quits: josemanuel (~josemanue@72.Red-83-40-175.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) (Quit: Saliendo)
574. # [15:03] * Quits: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
575. # [15:03] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@212.213.198.101)
576. # [15:03] * Joins: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com)
577. # [15:04] * Quits: Somatt_wrk (~somattwrk@darkstar2.fullsix.com) (Client Quit)
578. # [15:05] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.123.133)
579. # [15:05] * rego is now known as rego_away
580. # [15:07] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@212.213.198.101) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
581. # [15:09] * Joins: krawchyk (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251)
582. # [15:11] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@69-165-156-239.dsl.teksavvy.com)
583. # [15:12] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@69-165-156-239.dsl.teksavvy.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
584. # [15:17] * Joins: jreading (Adium@nat/novell/x-mscnnqdaqzlgxagy)
585. # [15:18] * Joins: danjesus (~danjesus@177.102.189.227)
586. # [15:19] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@94.137.124.2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
587. # [15:20] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@gateway.creuna.se)
588. # [15:21] * Joins: TallTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
589. # [15:22] * Joins: baku (~baku@66.207.208.102)
590. # [15:22] * Quits: TallTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36) (Client Quit)
591. # [15:27] * Quits: danjesus (~danjesus@177.102.189.227) (Remote host closed the connection)
592. # [15:29] * Quits: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
593. # [15:30] * Joins: rubatdub (~khalil@213.188.180.185)
594. # [15:32] * Joins: TallTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
595. # [15:33] * Joins: rtc65 (~accessPoi@77.28.23.35)
596. # [15:36] * Quits: rtc (~accessPoi@46.217.87.186) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
597. # [15:49] * Joins: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled)
598. # [15:50] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@84-199-88-151.iFiber.telenet-ops.be) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-7.1450hg.fc19 [XULRunner 24.0/20130916094533])
599. # [15:51] * Quits: tomasf (~tomasf@77.72.97.10.c.fiberdirekt.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
600. # [15:51] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@vpna249.ugent.be)
601. # [15:53] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: i've written some notes on how the parser could be modified to be streaming with different recovery
602. # [15:53] <zcorpan> http://bugzilla.validator.nu/ says Gateway Time-out for me
603. # [15:57] * Joins: WolfieZero (~WolfieZer@87.124.34.97)
604. # [16:00] * rego_away is now known as rego
605. # [16:02] * Quits: WolfieZero (~WolfieZer@87.124.34.97) (Remote host closed the connection)
606. # [16:02] * Joins: WolfieZero (~WolfieZer@87.124.34.97)
607. # [16:02] * Joins: wisconsinCypher_ (~encryptd_@66-188-99-174.static.ftbg.wi.charter.com)
608. # [16:12] * Joins: [[zz]] (~q@node-1auy.pool-101-109.dynamic.totbb.net)
609. # [16:13] * Joins: emailshwetank (~shwetank@14.98.251.184)
610. # [16:14] * Quits: emailshwetank (~shwetank@14.98.251.184) (Client Quit)
611. # [16:15] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.123.133) (Read error: No route to host)
612. # [16:18] * Joins: waywk2 (~waywk4@mail.wlion.com)
613. # [16:18] * Quits: waywk2 (~waywk4@mail.wlion.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
614. # [16:21] * Joins: taptapdan (~taptapdan@137.150.93.68)
615. # [16:22] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@70-36-140-29.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
616. # [16:23] * Joins: waywk2 (~waywk4@mail.wlion.com)
617. # [16:26] * Quits: waywk (~waywk4@mail.wlion.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
618. # [16:29] * Joins: j_wright (~jwright@unaffiliated/j-wright/x-9145068)
619. # [16:29] <zcorpan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2013Oct/0009.html
620. # [16:31] * Joins: Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
621. # [16:35] * waywk2 is now known as waywk
622. # [16:35] * Quits: gavinc (~gavin@barad-dur.carothers.name) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
623. # [16:36] * Joins: umgrosscol (~umgrossco@grosscol.umdl.umich.edu)
624. # [16:38] * Joins: krawchyk_ (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251)
625. # [16:41] * Quits: krawchyk (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
626. # [16:42] * Joins: reyre (~reyre@66.207.208.102)
627. # [16:43] * Joins: nicoo (~nicoo@unaffiliated/nicoo)
628. # [16:45] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
629. # [16:48] * Joins: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
630. # [16:49] * Quits: reyre (~reyre@66.207.208.102) (Remote host closed the connection)
631. # [16:58] * Quits: jorgepedret (~jorgepedr@70-36-56-110.dyn.novuscom.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
632. # [16:59] * Joins: zkis (~zkis@87-93-33-184.bb.dnainternet.fi)
633. # [16:59] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
634. # [16:59] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
635. # [17:00] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
636. # [17:01] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.102)
637. # [17:02] * Joins: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@76.74.153.41)
638. # [17:02] * Quits: mven (~mven@ip68-224-15-53.lv.lv.cox.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
639. # [17:02] * Joins: mven (~mven@ip68-224-15-53.lv.lv.cox.net)
640. # [17:03] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@vpna249.ugent.be) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
641. # [17:04] * Joins: cabanier1 (~cabanier@192.150.10.206)
642. # [17:04] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@c-98-237-137-173.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
643. # [17:05] * Quits: vcarbune (~vcarbune@84-75-248-2.dclient.hispeed.ch) (Read error: Operation timed out)
644. # [17:07] * Quits: mven (~mven@ip68-224-15-53.lv.lv.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
645. # [17:08] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@192.150.10.205)
646. # [17:08] * Joins: Roujo (~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo)
647. # [17:09] * Joins: reyre (~reyre@66.207.208.102)
648. # [17:11] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-nmxeopeiowexfneq)
649. # [17:11] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-nmxeopeiowexfneq) (Changing host)
650. # [17:11] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
651. # [17:13] * Joins: mpt_ (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
652. # [17:13] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Remote host closed the connection)
653. # [17:14] * mpt_ is now known as mpt
654. # [17:15] * Joins: n5419 (~user314@177.108.184.224)
655. # [17:16] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
656. # [17:16] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
657. # [17:16] * Quits: Lachy (~textual@213.166.174.2) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
658. # [17:17] * Quits: n5419 (~user314@177.108.184.224) (Client Quit)
659. # [17:19] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@24.130.60.35) (Quit: weinig)
660. # [17:19] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.209)
661. # [17:19] * Joins: digao (~DiegoVian@177.108.184.224)
662. # [17:22] * Quits: digao (~DiegoVian@177.108.184.224) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
663. # [17:24] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
664. # [17:24] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
665. # [17:24] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Max SendQ exceeded)
666. # [17:24] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
667. # [17:25] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Max SendQ exceeded)
668. # [17:25] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
669. # [17:25] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Max SendQ exceeded)
670. # [17:25] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
671. # [17:25] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Max SendQ exceeded)
672. # [17:26] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
673. # [17:26] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Max SendQ exceeded)
674. # [17:26] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
675. # [17:26] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Max SendQ exceeded)
676. # [17:27] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
677. # [17:27] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Max SendQ exceeded)
678. # [17:27] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
679. # [17:27] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Max SendQ exceeded)
680. # [17:28] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
681. # [17:28] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Max SendQ exceeded)
682. # [17:28] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
683. # [17:28] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Max SendQ exceeded)
684. # [17:28] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
685. # [17:29] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Max SendQ exceeded)
686. # [17:29] * Quits: krawchyk_ (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251) (Remote host closed the connection)
687. # [17:29] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
688. # [17:29] * Joins: krawchyk (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251)
689. # [17:32] * Joins: saba (~foo@unaffiliated/saba)
690. # [17:39] * Quits: Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
691. # [17:40] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
692. # [17:48] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
693. # [17:48] * Quits: reyre (~reyre@66.207.208.102) (Remote host closed the connection)
694. # [17:51] * Quits: cabanier1 (~cabanier@192.150.10.206) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
695. # [17:58] * Joins: reyre (~reyre@66.207.208.102)
696. # [17:59] * Joins: josemanuel (~josemanue@243.Red-83-43-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
697. # [17:59] * Quits: zkis (~zkis@87-93-33-184.bb.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
698. # [18:02] * Joins: nimbu1 (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com)
699. # [18:03] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@192.150.10.205) (Read error: Operation timed out)
700. # [18:07] * Joins: richt (~richt@91.216.105.42)
701. # [18:07] * Quits: richt (~richt@91.216.105.42) (Remote host closed the connection)
702. # [18:08] * Joins: richt (~richt@180.94.118.5)
703. # [18:08] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
704. # [18:09] * Quits: umgrosscol (~umgrossco@grosscol.umdl.umich.edu) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
705. # [18:11] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
706. # [18:11] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@70-36-140-29.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
707. # [18:11] * Quits: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@76.74.153.41) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
708. # [18:12] * Quits: richt (~richt@180.94.118.5) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
709. # [18:13] * Joins: Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
710. # [18:14] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.217.25)
711. # [18:17] * Quits: reyre (~reyre@66.207.208.102) (Remote host closed the connection)
712. # [18:19] * Quits: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@c-50-157-151-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
713. # [18:19] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Quit: Leaving.)
714. # [18:21] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@192.150.22.55)
715. # [18:23] * Joins: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@c-50-157-151-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
716. # [18:23] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no)
717. # [18:29] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@50-0-164-83.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
718. # [18:29] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@81.143.60.194) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
719. # [18:30] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@guest.schibsted.no) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
720. # [18:30] * Joins: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@17.114.26.10)
721. # [18:36] * Quits: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@c-50-157-151-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
722. # [18:36] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@50-0-164-83.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
723. # [18:38] * Joins: alecf_ (alecf@nat/google/x-ikmrvlcsgmbzyfxi)
724. # [18:39] * Quits: alecf_ (alecf@nat/google/x-ikmrvlcsgmbzyfxi) (Client Quit)
725. # [18:39] * rego is now known as rego_away
726. # [18:41] * Joins: jorgepedret (~jorgepedr@64-46-23-103.dyn.novuscom.net)
727. # [18:44] * Quits: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@17.114.26.10) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
728. # [18:45] * Joins: alecf_ (alecf@nat/google/x-ybbhmbgqcdqltfby)
729. # [18:47] * Joins: umgrosscol (~umgrossco@grosscol.umdl.umich.edu)
730. # [18:47] * nimbu1 is now known as divya
731. # [18:48] * Joins: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:304:54a8:5ec:2364:25e8)
732. # [18:54] * Joins: WesleyMcClane (~quassel@host212-104-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
733. # [18:56] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
734. # [18:57] * Quits: WesleyMcClane_ (~quassel@host159-94-dynamic.59-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
735. # [19:02] * Quits: divya (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
736. # [19:04] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com)
737. # [19:05] <Roujo> dglazkov: 'morning ^^
738. # [19:09] * Joins: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-olchxlyzmxbdwmwc)
739. # [19:11] * Joins: TuRnaD0 (~Thunderbi@x1-6-e0-46-9a-1e-fe-ca.k368.webspeed.dk)
740. # [19:13] * Quits: WolfieZero (~WolfieZer@87.124.34.97) (Quit: Time to part ways!)
741. # [19:19] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@212.76.224.120)
742. # [19:20] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
743. # [19:20] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Max SendQ exceeded)
744. # [19:21] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
745. # [19:21] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Max SendQ exceeded)
746. # [19:21] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
747. # [19:21] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Max SendQ exceeded)
748. # [19:22] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
749. # [19:22] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Max SendQ exceeded)
750. # [19:23] * Joins: ADot1 (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
751. # [19:23] * Quits: ADot1 (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Max SendQ exceeded)
752. # [19:23] * Joins: ADot1 (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
753. # [19:23] * Quits: ADot1 (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Max SendQ exceeded)
754. # [19:24] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@212.76.224.120) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
755. # [19:24] * Joins: ADot1 (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
756. # [19:24] * Quits: ADot1 (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Max SendQ exceeded)
757. # [19:25] * Joins: ADot1 (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
758. # [19:26] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@193.190.253.150)
759. # [19:28] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@50-0-164-83.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
760. # [19:29] * Quits: ADot1 (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
761. # [19:33] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
762. # [19:33] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Max SendQ exceeded)
763. # [19:34] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
764. # [19:34] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Max SendQ exceeded)
765. # [19:34] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
766. # [19:34] * Quits: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234) (Max SendQ exceeded)
767. # [19:34] * Joins: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
768. # [19:35] * Parts: ADot (~Adium@167.80.166.234)
769. # [19:35] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@172.56.9.222)
770. # [19:36] * Parts: Roujo (~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo) ("Off I go!")
771. # [19:37] * Joins: gaba (~gaba@37.139.18.77)
772. # [19:50] * Quits: Cromulent (~Cromulent@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
773. # [19:51] * ojan_away is now known as ojan
774. # [19:54] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
775. # [19:54] * Joins: charl_ (~charl@charl.eu)
776. # [19:54] * Joins: malcolmva (~malcolmva@c-67-180-203-233.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
777. # [19:55] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@172.56.9.222) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
778. # [19:55] * Quits: alecf_ (alecf@nat/google/x-ybbhmbgqcdqltfby) (Quit: alecf_)
779. # [19:56] * Quits: brion (~brion@wikipedia/pdpc.professional.brion) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
780. # [19:57] * Joins: brion (~brion@wikipedia/pdpc.professional.brion)
781. # [19:58] * Joins: davve` (~user@node-7lfb91kwq155uy7y8.a0.ipv6.opera.com)
782. # [19:59] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.217.25) (Quit: weinig)
783. # [20:03] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
784. # [20:03] * Joins: reyre (~reyre@66.207.208.102)
785. # [20:04] * Joins: alecf_ (alecf@nat/google/x-vimorpyemqvjgyra)
786. # [20:05] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
787. # [20:05] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
788. # [20:08] * Quits: reyre (~reyre@66.207.208.102) (Remote host closed the connection)
789. # [20:09] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
790. # [20:09] * Joins: reyre (~reyre@66.207.208.102)
791. # [20:12] * Quits: saba (~foo@unaffiliated/saba) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
792. # [20:14] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@192.150.10.205)
793. # [20:17] * Joins: saba (~foo@unaffiliated/saba)
794. # [20:19] * Quits: reyre (~reyre@66.207.208.102) (Remote host closed the connection)
795. # [20:23] * Quits: saba (~foo@unaffiliated/saba) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
796. # [20:26] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.217.25)
797. # [20:28] * Joins: reyre (~reyre@66.207.208.102)
798. # [20:30] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.217.25) (Client Quit)
799. # [20:31] * Joins: nimbu1 (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com)
800. # [20:31] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@192.150.10.205) (Read error: Operation timed out)
801. # [20:32] * Joins: vcarbune (~vcarbune@84-75-248-2.dclient.hispeed.ch)
802. # [20:33] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@50-0-164-83.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
803. # [20:34] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.217.25)
804. # [20:35] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
805. # [20:38] * Quits: reyre (~reyre@66.207.208.102) (Remote host closed the connection)
806. # [20:39] * Joins: saba (~foo@unaffiliated/saba)
807. # [20:40] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@host31-51-171-54.range31-51.btcentralplus.com)
808. # [20:40] <Domenic_> Hixie_: was there ever consideration for a way of linking buttons and dialogs? e.g. https://gist.github.com/rpflorence/6814517
809. # [20:43] * Quits: alecf_ (alecf@nat/google/x-vimorpyemqvjgyra) (Quit: alecf_)
810. # [20:45] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
811. # [20:45] * Quits: saba (~foo@unaffiliated/saba) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
812. # [20:46] <Hixie_> not only was there consideration, it's in the spec.
813. # [20:48] <Domenic_> lollll
814. # [20:48] * ojan is now known as ojan_away
815. # [20:49] <Domenic_> can't find it in http://developers.whatwg.org/commands.html#the-dialog-element, hmm
816. # [20:49] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
817. # [20:49] <Hixie_> looks like there's no example of it in the spec
818. # [20:50] <Hixie_> <dialog> <form method=dialog> <input type=submit> </form> </dialog>
819. # [20:50] <Domenic_> huh...
820. # [20:51] <Domenic_> what about opening the dialog
821. # [20:51] <Domenic_> oh nice dialog affects autofocus, that is awesome!
822. # [20:51] * Joins: saba (~foo@unaffiliated/saba)
823. # [20:53] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@host31-51-171-54.range31-51.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
824. # [20:54] * Quits: taptapdan (~taptapdan@137.150.93.68) (Quit: taptapdan)
825. # [20:55] * Joins: ryanflorence (~rpflorenc@ec2-184-72-231-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com)
826. # [20:57] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.217.25) (Quit: weinig)
827. # [20:59] <Hixie_> not sure what you're looking for when opening the dialog
828. # [21:02] * Quits: nimbu1 (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
829. # [21:02] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
830. # [21:04] <TabAtkins> Click a button -> dialog opens, presumably.
831. # [21:04] <TabAtkins> Like <details>, but with a popup.
832. # [21:05] <TabAtkins> Actually, though, that's basically just <details>. Style it when [open] to look like a popup.
833. # [21:05] <ryanflorence> so why have both?
834. # [21:05] * Joins: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@50.157.151.94)
835. # [21:07] <TabAtkins> ryanflorence: I was just now exploring my thoughts, not trying to justify anything. It may be that <details> is enough for this case.
836. # [21:08] <Domenic_> Feels related to contextmenu attribute on buttons.
837. # [21:08] <ryanflorence> I missed the beginning of the conversation in here but I started it on twitter, is the feeling we don't need a declarative dialog?
838. # [21:09] * Quits: jonathanmarvens (~jonathanm@50.157.151.94) (Remote host closed the connection)
839. # [21:10] <TabAtkins> Nonono, unrelated.
840. # [21:10] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
841. # [21:11] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.107.239)
842. # [21:12] * Joins: DiegoViane (~diego.via@186.206.163.127)
843. # [21:13] <Domenic_> Using details for this is no good
844. # [21:13] <Domenic_> Or rather, very weird.
845. # [21:14] <Domenic_> Augh I should not try to engage in discussions from iPad keyboard. Shutting up now until my laptop recharges.
846. # [21:15] <ryanflorence> your command of capital letters on the ipad though is impressive
847. # [21:25] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
848. # [21:26] * Quits: saba (~foo@unaffiliated/saba) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
849. # [21:28] * Joins: saba (~foo@unaffiliated/saba)
850. # [21:29] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@212.76.224.120)
851. # [21:30] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
852. # [21:33] * Quits: jpn (~jpn@pickles.tp.telepac.pt) (Quit: jpn)
853. # [21:35] * Joins: Maurice (copyman@5ED57922.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
854. # [21:35] * Joins: zkis (~zkis@87-93-33-184.bb.dnainternet.fi)
855. # [21:38] <rektide> this is insane. the discrepancy between CSSStyleSheet and HTMLStyleSheet make up a vast flabbergasting chasm of WTF. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/CSSStyleSheet.insertRule?redirectlocale=en-US&redirectslug=Web%2FAPI%2FCSSStyleSheet%2FinsertRule#Example_2
856. # [21:38] <rektide> it is way way too hard to get to doing absolutely trivial things like adding a single rule to a document
857. # [21:39] <rektide> in that it's extremely likely one will run face first into 12 different ways where you cannot quite get there from here- but nice try, that was close
858. # [21:39] <rektide> awful
859. # [21:39] <rektide> thanks #whatwg emotional support group
860. # [21:39] <TabAtkins> There's no such thing as HTMLStyleSheet. There's an HTMLStyleElement, which is a completely different thing from a stylesheet. It *contains* a stylesheet.
861. # [21:40] <rektide> ah but taht style sheet isn't read only, the property of the HTMLStyleElement is read only
862. # [21:40] <rektide> ok that's not entirely useless then. my mistake on the name.
863. # [21:40] <TabAtkins> The stylesheet on <style> is readonly?
864. # [21:41] <rektide> yes, .style is read only according to mdn
865. # [21:41] * ojan_away is now known as ojan
866. # [21:41] <rektide> errr i probably don't have that property name right do i.. one moment
867. # [21:41] <Jasper> Hixie_, while we're working on Path for Canvas2D, can I recommend a way to get the current working path and clip path?
868. # [21:41] <Jasper> Hixie_, if only for debugging
869. # [21:41] <rektide> .sheet
870. # [21:42] <rektide> i don't understand why the MDN code is ok
871. # [21:42] <zcorpan> rektide: the .sheet attribute is readonly, but that just means you can't assign to it. the stylesheet is mutable
872. # [21:42] <rektide> they appendChild onto the head element, and then look for the last style element. but wouldn't that appended child show up somewhere in the page?
873. # [21:42] <rektide> with any style elements in the body following after it
874. # [21:43] <TabAtkins> rektide: Yeah, a readonlya ttribute just means that the object itself can't be replaced.
875. # [21:43] <rektide> zcorpan: right, somehow TabAtkins quick line made that click, and you said what i just said now
876. # [21:43] <TabAtkins> It doesn't mean the object there is readonly.
877. # [21:43] <rektide> ayup ayup
878. # [21:43] * rtc65 is now known as dev11
879. # [21:43] <TabAtkins> Also, that example 2 is really terrible code.
880. # [21:44] <jgraham> It is not like "mut" in Rust
881. # [21:44] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@193.190.253.150) (Quit: nn)
882. # [21:44] <rektide> i don't see alternatives!
883. # [21:44] <TabAtkins> Seriously, detecting Safari for a bugfix by checking for window.createPopup?
884. # [21:44] <jgraham> </unhelpful-comparison>
885. # [21:44] <rektide> this is just ugly ugly stuff to do
886. # [21:44] <rektide> line 27 though in particular
887. # [21:44] <rektide> i think isn't ugly enough to actuall ywork
888. # [21:44] <rektide> because the body hight have it's own style elements
889. # [21:44] <TabAtkins> Why does line 27 exist? You can do "style.sheet" instead.
890. # [21:44] <TabAtkins> And yes, it's incorrect for that reason.
891. # [21:45] <rektide> oh yay
892. # [21:45] <rektide> i'll kill this for loop i added to their codebase
893. # [21:45] * Quits: saba (~foo@unaffiliated/saba) (Quit: leaving)
894. # [21:45] <TabAtkins> It looks like most of the complication in this code is due to unnecessary workarounds caused by misunderstanding.
895. # [21:45] <rektide> thank you TabAtkins &all
896. # [21:47] <rektide> oh flip me, why is there no insertRule function on the style sheet
897. # [21:47] <TabAtkins> There... is.
898. # [21:47] * Joins: reyre (~reyre@209.226.25.101)
899. # [21:48] <TabAtkins> styleEl.sheet.insertRule exists.
900. # [21:49] <TabAtkins> Also, note that objects are iterated in insertion order. That's specified, and I *think* browsers implement that.
901. # [21:49] <rektide> once appended to the document
902. # [21:49] <rektide> in Chrome-unstable
903. # [21:49] <rektide> ahh interesting
904. # [21:49] <TabAtkins> Well yeah. Before it's in the document, it doesn't have a stylesheet at all.
905. # [21:50] <TabAtkins> It's not that the stylesheet lacks an insertRule function, it's the "el.sheet" returns null before el is inserted into the document.
906. # [21:50] <TabAtkins> rektide: Is this your code in the wiki? Or just code that you're trying to follow/maintain?
907. # [21:51] * Quits: josemanuel (~josemanue@243.Red-83-43-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) (Quit: Saliendo)
908. # [21:54] <Hixie_> Jasper: you mean the one on the context?
909. # [21:54] <Hixie_> Jasper: i looked into doing that, i don't recall why i didn't do it...
910. # [21:54] <Hixie_> Jasper: what do you want to do with it exactly?
911. # [21:54] <Jasper> Hixie_, just debug
912. # [21:54] <Hixie_> how?
913. # [21:55] <rektide> these insertRules are firing now but not doing anything
914. # [21:55] <Jasper> Hixie_, visualize what my current clip state is, or dump what the current path is
915. # [21:55] <rektide> TabAtkins: https://github.com/rektide/greyelershian/blob/master/greyelershian.user.js#L44
916. # [21:55] <Jasper> Hixie_, perhaps I'd take the clip path and draw it to a separate canvas overlaid on top in transparent red
917. # [21:55] <Jasper> Hixie_, so, have you seen the absolutely crazy thing I'm building?
918. # [21:55] <rektide> it's a userscript to make Google notices appear in grey, not red.
919. # [21:56] <Hixie_> Jasper: to visualise your lip state, just draw a huge rectangle.
920. # [21:56] <Hixie_> clip, not lip.
921. # [21:57] <Hixie_> Jasper: i have not
922. # [21:57] <Jasper> Hixie_, the URL will probably scar you for life
923. # [21:57] <Jasper> Hixie_, http://magcius.github.io/xserver.js/demo/
924. # [21:58] <rektide> missing semicolon spotted. merciful merciful wetware errors.
925. # [21:58] <rektide> wait no. .gb_jb { background-color: rgb(102, 102, 102); transition: background-color 1.2s } , what is wrong with you
926. # [21:58] * Quits: davve` (~user@node-7lfb91kwq155uy7y8.a0.ipv6.opera.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
927. # [21:58] * Quits: zkis (~zkis@87-93-33-184.bb.dnainternet.fi) (Read error: Operation timed out)
928. # [21:59] <rektide> oh spaces that's it isnt it
929. # [22:00] <Jasper> Hixie_, I'm redoing X drawing semantics in canvas so that every window draws to the same front buffer, but clipped to their visible area.
930. # [22:00] <Hixie_> Jasper: i wish i could tell you i'd never seen someone do this before
931. # [22:00] <rektide> there's still no change to this style sheet after i insertRule. and nothing is being thrown.
932. # [22:00] <Hixie_> Jasper: (not necessarily exactly the same, but same idea)
933. # [22:01] * Quits: reyre (~reyre@209.226.25.101) (Remote host closed the connection)
934. # [22:01] <Jasper> Hixie_, this isn't just the "fake OS" thing with DOM or something. This accurately implements a front-buffer and how windows draw to it.
935. # [22:01] <Hixie_> Jasper: fair enough
936. # [22:02] <Jasper> Hixie_, so yeah, sometimes I'm clipped five levels deep and I can't really just draw a rectangle to see my current clip because another client might overwrite it.
937. # [22:04] <Jasper> It's quite fun to write, too: https://github.com/magcius/xserver.js/blob/gh-pages/src/clients/xeyes.js
938. # [22:04] <Hixie_> draw a rectangle, then call window.alert()
939. # [22:04] <Hixie_> or debugger;
940. # [22:04] <Jasper> Hixie_, I suppose that's an idea...
941. # [22:06] <rektide> insertRule is not doing anything.... aaagggggggggg
942. # [22:06] <TabAtkins> rektide: It works fine over here, so I have no idea what the problem is that you're seeing.
943. # [22:09] <rektide> ah. so the style sheet updates when you insertRule but the HTMLStyleElement doesnt reflect that change
944. # [22:09] <rektide> one bad assumption on my part
945. # [22:09] <TabAtkins> Yeah, the text contents dont' change.
946. # [22:09] <rektide> the rules exist, their priority is just being smashed by someone else i'm guessing
947. # [22:09] <TabAtkins> Throw an !important on those things.
948. # [22:12] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com)
949. # [22:14] * rego_away is now known as rego
950. # [22:16] <rektide> can i run queryselectors on computed styles?
951. # [22:16] <rektide> or is querySelector truly only for actual attributes?
952. # [22:16] <TabAtkins> I'm not sure what you mean. querySelector selects elements in the tree that match a given selector.
953. # [22:17] <rektide> [id="foo"] is an attribute selector for things id'ed as foo
954. # [22:17] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@212.76.224.120) (Quit: Reconnecting…)
955. # [22:17] <TabAtkins> If you can do it in a selector in a stylesheet, you can do it in querySelector(). Nothing more, nothing less.
956. # [22:18] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@212.76.224.120)
957. # [22:18] <rektide> i figured the answer was no
958. # [22:18] <rektide> my ask though, since it's still hazy
959. # [22:18] <TabAtkins> I still don't know what you were actually asking about, so shrug.
960. # [22:19] <rektide> was to be able to find all elements that have a style, whether it's directly on the element or whether the element only has that property because it has been cascaded onto it
961. # [22:19] * Quits: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
962. # [22:19] <rektide> i'm looking for red things
963. # [22:19] <TabAtkins> You can't do that with a selector.
964. # [22:19] <rektide> nope you cannot i concur
965. # [22:20] <rektide> and alas there's nothing fixed i'm going to be able to select on the google homepage. the classes changed since yesterday.
966. # [22:20] <TabAtkins> Note, for your use-case, that the classes used by Google stuff changes over time, as they're generated by a CSS compiler and have no guarantee of stability.
967. # [22:21] <rektide> hence my ask for a search function to not have have to get all elements and loop through them myself
968. # [22:21] <rektide> "find red" would've been handy here
969. # [22:21] <rektide> i suppose i could search the style sheet for red to select the selector repsonsible
970. # [22:21] <rektide> fine
971. # [22:21] <rektide> this isn't ugly
972. # [22:21] <rektide> twist my arm
973. # [22:22] <rektide> stupid well indexed systems, showing me off
974. # [22:22] <TabAtkins> Heh.
975. # [22:22] <TabAtkins> But seriously, that mdn code needs to be thrown out. It's terrible.
976. # [22:23] <rektide> it brought me much closer to the end of my rope on this one
977. # [22:23] <rektide> i'm glad you've identified the 'by order inserted' potential though, that makes me happier that it's probably not flagrantly outright wrong
978. # [22:25] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
979. # [22:27] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
980. # [22:28] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com)
981. # [22:32] * Joins: SteveF_ (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
982. # [22:33] * Quits: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
983. # [22:38] * Joins: reyre (~reyre@209.226.25.101)
984. # [22:39] * Quits: Benvie (~bbenvie@v-1045.fw1.sfo1.mozilla.net)
985. # [22:41] * Quits: reyre (~reyre@209.226.25.101) (Remote host closed the connection)
986. # [22:42] * Quits: baku (~baku@66.207.208.102) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
987. # [22:45] * Quits: SteveF_ (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
988. # [22:47] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
989. # [22:47] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
990. # [22:48] * Quits: krawchyk (~krawchyk@65.220.49.251) (Remote host closed the connection)
991. # [22:51] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
992. # [22:52] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
993. # [22:54] * Quits: birtles (~chatzilla@84-199-88-151.iFiber.telenet-ops.be) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
994. # [22:57] * Joins: zkis (~zkis@87-93-33-184.bb.dnainternet.fi)
995. # [22:58] <rektide> "Object #<StyleSheetList> has no method 'find'"
996. # [22:59] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@17.212.154.114)
997. # [22:59] * Joins: alecf_ (alecf@nat/google/x-rglaoolraammiyqf)
998. # [22:59] <rektide> is parity between Array and DOM list'y stuff an objective, or will we not see a .find, .some, &c ?
999. # [23:02] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com)
1000. # [23:03] * Quits: TallTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
1001. # [23:05] * Quits: rubatdub (~khalil@213.188.180.185) (Quit: Quitte)
1002. # [23:06] * Quits: jreading (Adium@nat/novell/x-mscnnqdaqzlgxagy) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1003. # [23:10] * Quits: alecf_ (alecf@nat/google/x-rglaoolraammiyqf) (Quit: alecf_)
1004. # [23:11] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
1005. # [23:14] <TabAtkins> rektide: Everything that looks kinda like an Array but isn't, is a terrible mistake and we're trying to fix them.
1006. # [23:15] <rektide> TabAtkins: godspeed sovereign warriors. thanks for the work, thanks for the reply.
1007. # [23:16] <rektide> glad to hear there's some concordance that the state now ought not be the way of it
1008. # [23:16] * Joins: jernoble|laptop (~jernoble@17.114.110.111)
1009. # [23:16] <TabAtkins> rektide: I've also revised the MDN function to make it less terrible. It's possible that it's now less portable to old browsers, but that can be fixed by someone else I guess.
1010. # [23:18] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
1011. # [23:18] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@host31-51-171-54.range31-51.btcentralplus.com)
1012. # [23:25] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED57922.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
1013. # [23:27] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
1014. # [23:29] * Quits: umgrosscol (~umgrossco@grosscol.umdl.umich.edu) (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
1015. # [23:29] * Quits: DiegoViane (~diego.via@186.206.163.127)
1016. # [23:32] * Joins: DiegoViane (~DiegoVian@186.206.163.127)
1017. # [23:33] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@192.150.10.205)
1018. # [23:34] * Quits: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:304:54a8:5ec:2364:25e8) (Quit: ap)
1019. # [23:34] * Quits: mitemitreski (~mitemitre@212.120.17.179) (Quit: Leaving.)
1020. # [23:37] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@69-165-156-239.dsl.teksavvy.com)
1021. # [23:38] * Quits: nimbu (~nimbu@192.150.10.205) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1022. # [23:39] * Quits: zkis (~zkis@87-93-33-184.bb.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1023. # [23:50] * Joins: ap (~ap@17.245.104.235)
1024. # [23:53] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@212.76.224.120) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1025. # [23:54] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@sjfw1-a.adobe.com)
1026. # [23:55] * Quits: TuRnaD0 (~Thunderbi@x1-6-e0-46-9a-1e-fe-ca.k368.webspeed.dk) (Quit: TuRnaD0)
1027. # [23:58] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@host31-51-171-54.range31-51.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
1028. # Session Close: Fri Oct 04 00:00:00 2013

The end :)