/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-11-14 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Nov 14 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <Hixie_> bholley: promise him chocolates?
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  19. # [00:26] <dglazkov> mrbkap: here!
  20. # [00:27] <mrbkap> dglazkov: Hey!
  21. # [00:27] <mrbkap> dglazkov: I have a couple of questions:
  22. # [00:27] <mrbkap> dglazkov: Has anybody looked into the interaction between shadow DOM and scoped stylesheets?
  23. # [00:29] <mrbkap> dglazkov: i.e. if I have an element: <element><span>foo</span></element> with a shadow DOM: <div><style scoped>span { color: red; }</style><content></content></div>
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  25. # [00:29] <mrbkap> dglazkov: is "foo" in red or not?
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  27. # [00:31] <mrbkap> dglazkov: Also, why is the base element queue sorted in the spec?
  28. # [00:31] <mrbkap> dglazkov: (in the custom elements spec)
  29. # [00:31] <dglazkov> mrbkap: it's a good question. We implemented both in Blink, and I know we use the same machinery for tracking the scoping node (element or Shadow Root). But I think the spec itself is not entirely clear there.
  30. # [00:31] <dglazkov> tasak@chromium.org and hayato@chromium.org are the peeps to bug about this.
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  32. # [00:32] <mrbkap> dglazkov: Okay, I'll send email.
  33. # [00:32] <mrbkap> dglazkov: I know that bzbarsky thinks that "foo" should *not* be red in my example.
  34. # [00:33] <dglazkov> on to the sorted queue
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  38. # [00:35] <mrbkap> Yes.
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  40. # [00:36] <dglazkov> the main reason is future compatibility with imports. Since imports are loaded asynchronously, the ordering of custom element callbacks in them is unpredictable. the ordering provides stability. If you don't support imports, sorting can be just optimized away -- elements will be always added in the right order to the queue.
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  42. # [00:37] <mrbkap> dglazkov: ah-ha, I see.
  43. # [00:38] <dglazkov> mrbkap: for example, we don't sort it now in Blink, because our imports implementation isn't baked yet: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/codesearch#chromium/src/third_party/WebKit/Source/core/dom/custom/CustomElementBaseElementQueue.cpp&sq=package:chromium&type=cs
  44. # [00:39] * mrbkap thought code.google.com had shut down!
  45. # [00:40] <dglazkov> mrbkap: lol
  46. # [00:40] <dglazkov> it's been githubb'd
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  84. # [01:46] <mrbkap> dglazkov: Are you still there?
  85. # [01:46] <dglazkov> mrbkap: yup
  86. # [01:48] <mrbkap> dglazkov: Are lifetime callbacks supposed to be called in order of when they are generated globally or in order for their microtask?
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  88. # [01:50] <mrbkap> dglazkov: I might be lost in the spec, but I think the way it's specified right now, the spec might end up processing the same lifetime callbacks multiple times.
  89. # [01:50] <dglazkov> mrbkap: the element/callback queues is what provides the order.
  90. # [01:50] * mrbkap doesn't have a concrete example yet.
  91. # [01:52] <mrbkap> dglazkov: I think I'm having a hard time reasoning about this because the spec puts the lifetime callback queues on the elements themselves.
  92. # [01:53] <mrbkap> dglazkov: Which means that when a lifetime callback recursively causes another lifetime callback, we push that element onto the new queue.
  93. # [01:54] <zewt> perplexed at chrome messing up with simple things, like how ^T opens at tab way at the end of the tabs, instead of after the focused tab
  94. # [01:54] <dglazkov> mrbkap: there's only one queue per element, so that shouldn't happen
  95. # [01:54] <zewt> on the web, apparently no problems are really solved problems
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  97. # [01:54] <mrbkap> oops, I missed that we remove each processed callback before calling it.
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  99. # [01:55] <mrbkap> okay, cool.
  100. # [01:55] <dglazkov> yay!
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  102. # [01:56] <darobin> serious side-effects of jet lag: seeing dglazkov in the morning
  103. # [01:56] <dglazkov> cannot be unseen
  104. # [01:56] <mrbkap> With enough alcohol...
  105. # [01:57] <darobin> with enough alcohol he starts being a voice in your head
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  110. # [02:07] <TabAtkins> Ms2ger: The errata is public, but I forget where. It's hidden somewhere stupid.
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  121. # [02:22] <dglazkov> darobin: that's the final phase
  122. # [02:22] * darobin shudders at the thought of what happens after that...
  123. # [02:23] <dglazkov> darobin: btw, did you see that hayato converted shadow DOM spec to ReSpec?
  124. # [02:23] <dglazkov> http://w3c.github.io/webcomponents/spec/shadow/
  125. # [02:24] <darobin> oooh
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  127. # [02:25] <nimbu> omg the SPEC OF SHADOWS
  128. # [02:26] <darobin> 286 warnings, nice :)
  129. # [02:28] <darobin> dglazkov: this is sweet; if hayato has any questions I'm happy to help any time
  130. # [02:30] <darobin> oh, and I hadn't noticed that webcomponents had moved to GH, that's much better than dvcs.w3
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  136. # [02:41] <MikeSmith> I hear http://memecrunch.com/generator/custom/ is working as expected again now
  137. # [02:42] <nimbu> whats the best new memes on W3C since TPAC
  138. # [02:42] <nimbu> or wait is tpac still going on
  139. # [02:43] <darobin> nimbu: tpac is still on
  140. # [02:43] <nimbu> darobin: are you all wearing the beloved mandrin tpac shirts
  141. # [02:43] <nimbu> making you look like party members
  142. # [02:43] <darobin> nimbu: not I at this moment, but there's a lot of that going on yes
  143. # [02:43] <nimbu> darobin: you all gotta take group photo wearing that
  144. # [02:43] <TabAtkins> nimbu: TPAC is, in fact, happening at this very moment.
  145. # [02:44] <nimbu> sylvain needs to get a hat with that long hair
  146. # [02:44] * TabAtkins has been attending from California this week.
  147. # [02:44] <darobin> nimbu: yeah, that's a good idea actually
  148. # [02:44] <nimbu> TabAtkins: ahaha that sounds like a nightmare
  149. # [02:44] <nimbu> to attend from california
  150. # [02:44] <TabAtkins> It's kinda bad, but whatever. Meetings go from 5pm to 2am.
  151. # [02:44] <nimbu> :||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
  152. # [02:44] <nimbu> cray
  153. # [02:45] <nimbu> darobin: MAKE IT HAPPEN ROBINNNNNNNNNNNN
  154. # [02:45] <nimbu> YOU DA MAN
  155. # [02:45] <darobin> 5pm to 2am isn't so bad
  156. # [02:45] <darobin> it could be the other way around
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  161. # [02:47] <darobin> nimbu: I'm not sure if I can get a bunch of TPAC people doing that, on the fourth evening people are completely unmanageable
  162. # [02:48] <darobin> (as opposed to the first evening, where everyone is piled up on the same table drinking)
  163. # [02:48] <darobin> but there's a team meeting on Sunday, so you might expect at least that pic with the whole w3c :)
  164. # [02:48] <nimbu> :)))
  165. # [02:48] <nimbu> YES PLZ
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  167. # [02:48] <nimbu> i am sure someone can make a meme picture out of it
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  169. # [02:49] <nimbu> okay GTG BAI TPACS
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  171. # [02:49] <TabAtkins> darobin: You can always get a picture at the werewolf game.
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  173. # [02:50] <darobin> TabAtkins: yeah, but that's only ~25 peeps
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  250. # [04:59] <zewt> oops, did view image on a 1920x1080 pixel canvas in firefox
  251. # [05:00] <zewt> time to wait for the braindamaged thing to put a ~10mb data url in the address bar
  252. # [05:01] <zewt> one case where persisting a blob url would be a big win
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  264. # [05:37] <zcorpan> should we make EventSource() Worker() SharedWorker() use utf-8 as the url character encoding?
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  327. # [07:44] <MikeSmith> zcorpan, hober : did you catch what dave singer said about other standards bodies?
  328. # [07:44] <MikeSmith> mentioned 3GPP and OMA
  329. # [07:44] <zcorpan> i wasn't paying attention
  330. # [07:45] <MikeSmith> ah well
  331. # [07:45] <MikeSmith> missed opportunity
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  335. # [07:46] <darobin> not completely
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  337. # [07:48] <MikeSmith> yeah, we can ask the local authorities later to share the audio recordings they're making of all the sessions
  338. # [07:48] <darobin> well, based on what I hear from popular online media, it looks to me like the quote wasn't lost on everyone
  339. # [07:49] <MikeSmith> wow
  340. # [07:50] <MikeSmith> that was fast
  341. # [07:50] <MikeSmith> working hard in spite of the hangover
  342. # [07:50] <hober> fastest meme in the west
  343. # [07:50] <hober> err, east i guess
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  347. # [07:52] <MikeSmith> I think they need a meme generator with support for setting individual words in italic
  348. # [07:52] <MikeSmith> e.g., Show _some_ respect for other standards bodies.
  349. # [07:53] <MikeSmith> Show _some_ respect for the opinion of the community...
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  356. # [08:08] <zcorpan> jgraham: eme is over now if you were waiting for that
  357. # [08:10] <jgraham> zcorpan: Thanks. I was having a short nap until they woke my up to ask if it was OK that they were making noise
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  361. # [08:30] <darobin> haha, not bad
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  422. # [10:16] <zcorpan_> jgraham_: why does http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/2636 time out the harness?
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  425. # [10:20] <zcorpan_> looks like done() is broken? http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/2637
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  427. # [10:20] <zcorpan_> jgraham_: ^
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  560. # [15:42] <zcorpan> can someone merge https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/243 kthxbye
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  563. # [15:44] <Ms2ger> "We can’t automatically merge this pull request"
  564. # [15:44] <Ms2ger> Oh, and that someone would need to fix up the whitespace
  565. # [15:45] <jgraham_> I am on it
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  570. # [15:51] * Ms2ger wonders why zcorpan asked
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  573. # [15:52] <Ms2ger> Okay, that someone didn't fix the whitespace?
  574. # [15:52] <jgraham_> Ms2ger: I don't understand the question, but I fixed the merge conflict and pushed
  575. # [15:53] <zewt> if(undefined == toStart) yoda conditionals write not
  576. # [15:53] <Ms2ger> And Yoda definitely wouldn't use ==!
  577. # [15:54] <zewt> someone i know uses yoda conditionals ... for inequalities D:
  578. # [15:54] <zewt> it both makes things impossible to read, and even misses the original *point* (as misguided as it is) of yoda conditionals
  579. # [15:56] <Ms2ger> if (undefined !== foo)?
  580. # [15:57] <zewt> if(0 < foo && 10 > foo)
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  583. # [15:58] <Ms2ger> Still not as bad as lisp
  584. # [15:58] <Ms2ger> (if (< 0 foo)...
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  595. # [16:28] <FireFly> (if (< 0 foo 10) ...
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  601. # [16:39] <Ms2ger> TabAtkins, yeah, that was what I was thinking too... Let me know if you ever find it (re css2.1+)
  602. # [16:41] <jgraham_> ?iffoo < 0 if foo [...] then;
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  604. # [16:41] <jgraham_> I think
  605. # [16:42] <Ms2ger> jgraham_, what's that?
  606. # [16:42] <jgraham_> Forth, I think
  607. # [16:42] <jgraham_> Well it was intended to be, but I have never written any forth in my life
  608. # [16:43] <zewt> wow what the
  609. # [16:43] <Ms2ger> Reverse Polish, eh
  610. # [16:43] <zewt> now some w3c tracker page keeps randomly trying to close
  611. # [16:43] <zewt> i'm off doing something else and a chrome window steals focus to go ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO LEAVE
  612. # [16:43] <jgraham_> Yeah, I think you put < and 0 on the stack and then if pops the last two items on the stack, or something
  613. # [16:44] <zewt> i don't even know which one, since the focused tab is ... gmail
  614. # [16:44] <jgraham_> Oh, probably don't have "foo"
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  617. # [16:47] <jgraham_> Maybe ?foo 0 < [...] then ;
  618. # [16:47] <jgraham_> This is probably not the right forum to learn stack-based programming in real time without actually trying to think
  619. # [16:47] * Ms2ger wonders how jgraham_ ended up with Forth
  620. # [16:47] <jgraham_> I was thinking of languages that would have weirder if syntax than lisp
  621. # [16:48] <Ms2ger> Ah
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  636. # [17:11] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: I really don't remember initiating a PR with a th.js file in it
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  638. # [17:12] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, no, I meant a PR of mine in the testharness.js repo
  639. # [17:12] <MikeSmith> oh
  640. # [17:12] <Ms2ger> But you were talking about w3c-test:mirror on wpt, I think
  641. # [17:12] <MikeSmith> ah that
  642. # [17:12] <MikeSmith> yeah
  643. # [17:12] <Ms2ger> Anyway, class over
  644. # [17:12] <MikeSmith> sorry for that noise
  645. # [17:12] * Ms2ger poofs
  646. # [17:12] <Ms2ger> Np
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  653. # [17:23] <espadrine> where are w3c css tests going? Should they be in <https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests>? What's the status?
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  655. # [17:25] <MikeSmith> espadrine: in a separate repo
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  657. # [17:26] <MikeSmith> a mercurial repo
  658. # [17:26] <MikeSmith> at dvcs.w3.org
  659. # [17:26] <MikeSmith> and then they get mirrored at github
  660. # [17:26] <espadrine> MikeSmith: oh, found it, <https://hg.csswg.org/test/>
  661. # [17:26] <MikeSmith> OK
  662. # [17:27] <espadrine> thanks
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  680. # [18:11] <SimonSapin> espadrine: I believe the plan it to move CSS tests into web-platform-tests, but there is also a bunch of infrastructure to port https://test.csswg.org/shepherd/
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  682. # [18:13] <MikeSmith> SimonSapin: I think it's safe to say there's a low chance of the Shepherd stuff every getting used by any other groups except CSS
  683. # [18:13] <espadrine> SimonSapin: ah ok
  684. # [18:14] <MikeSmith> I don't know what the current state of discussion around porting it over to w-p-t but if it is brought over, it'll be only for use by the CSS WG
  685. # [18:16] <MikeSmith> I think (hope) that the long-term plan is to come up with a common system that meets whatever the same basic use case is that Shepherd was intended for, but that's instead based on requirements that we all actually agree with
  686. # [18:17] <MikeSmith> instead of what Shepherd is based on, which if it's like the rest of the CSS WG infrastructure, is based on idiosyncratic requirements that the CSS WG is the only group that has
  687. # [18:17] <MikeSmith> or claims to have
  688. # [18:17] <MikeSmith> anyway
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  692. # [18:27] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
  693. # [18:28] <SimonSapin> MikeSmith: I don’t know more than that, I only heard about it yesterday
  694. # [18:28] <SimonSapin> but yes, this would be a good conversation to have
  695. # [18:28] <MikeSmith> SimonSapin: yeah
  696. # [18:28] <SimonSapin> probably with plinss
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  698. # [18:29] <MikeSmith> jgraham_ and tobie and rebecca hauck have already been discussing it with peter linss
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  700. # [18:29] <MikeSmith> SimonSapin: yeah
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  708. # [18:40] <Ms2ger> Fwiw, my approach to CSS tests right now is "wait"
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  711. # [18:44] <MikeSmith> that seems to be everybody's approach right now
  712. # [18:44] <MikeSmith> I think Peter may be waiting for it to never happen
  713. # [18:44] <MikeSmith> waiting it out
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  720. # [18:53] <hober> wu wei
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  723. # [18:55] <MikeSmith> hober: another master for us to learn from
  724. # [18:56] <Ms2ger> I guess if it doesn't work out, I'll just start putting tests into wpt
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  730. # [19:08] <hsivonen> argh. I read some www-tag email and now I'm agitated about proposals to sniff bomless UTF-32
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  751. # [19:33] <SimonSapin> hsivonen: I want to kill most of http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/syndata.html#charset , but I really don’t want to argue about it in a meeting :/
  752. # [19:34] <Ms2ger> Watch out, you might end up in a meme that way
  753. # [19:36] <MikeSmith> that might be an uncomfortable place to be tonight
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  852. # [22:56] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
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  861. # [23:13] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED57922.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
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  863. # [23:17] * remysharp_ is now known as remysharp
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  868. # [23:31] <Hixie_> huh
  869. # [23:31] <Hixie_> navigating to javascript:foo essentially does the same as document.open();document.write(eval('foo'));document.close()
  870. # [23:33] <Hixie_> hm, no, nevermind
  871. # [23:33] <Hixie_> i misinterpreted the result of a test
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  885. # Session Close: Fri Nov 15 00:00:00 2013

The end :)