/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2013-12-16 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  33. # Session Start: Mon Dec 16 02:42:37 2013
  34. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  38. # [02:47] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ & http://logbot.glob.com.au/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  39. # [02:47] * Set by smaug____!~chatzilla@GGZYYCCCXVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi on Wed Mar 21 17:14:24
  40. # [02:47] -rajaniemi.freenode.net:#whatwg- [freenode-info] channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
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  78. # [06:23] <MikeSmith> Hixie: which API was that? (for creating new custom <input type=> values)
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  80. # [06:34] <Hixie> MikeSmith: which, the web controls one or the web components one?
  81. # [06:35] <MikeSmith> Hixie: I mean the web controls one
  82. # [06:35] <Hixie> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-controls/current-work/
  83. # [06:36] <Hixie> (defunct now, aria basically made it moot. unfortunately, aria solved the problem in a far less compelling way.)
  84. # [06:36] * MikeSmith looks
  85. # [06:37] <MikeSmith> wow
  86. # [06:37] <MikeSmith> dunno if I ever saw this spec before
  87. # [06:37] <MikeSmith> if I did I forgot
  88. # [06:38] <Hixie> it would have solved the custom controls problem and the accessibility problem in one fell swoop while simultaneously preventing the conflicting state problem that ARIA brought us
  89. # [06:38] <Hixie> you can tell how old that spec is, it still uses respec-style formatting for interface members :-)
  90. # [06:39] <MikeSmith> heh
  91. # [06:39] <Hixie> bed time, bb in a few hours :-)
  92. # [06:40] <MikeSmith> nn
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  116. # [08:23] <dekiss> Good morning GGO BUILD THE WEEEEEEEEEEEEB!!!
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  145. # [10:31] <ondras> Domenic_: ?
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  148. # [10:39] <ondras> well, probably anyone else can answer
  149. # [10:39] <ondras> is "catch" a wise name for a promise's method? is "catch" generally a suitable JS function name, being a reserved word?
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  205. # [13:31] <MikeSmith> can anybody figure out what https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24111 is asking for?
  206. # [13:37] <jgraham> MikeSmith: Yeah. They want li {color:green} type rules to also turn the marker green
  207. # [13:37] <MikeSmith> ah
  208. # [13:37] <ondras> which somewhat makes sense if you ask me
  209. # [13:37] <ondras> a pseudoclass would be also reasonable
  210. # [13:38] <MikeSmith> that's what he means by "inherit"
  211. # [13:38] <MikeSmith> I guess
  212. # [13:38] <ondras> yeah
  213. # [13:39] <jgraham> It might make sense, but presumably it isn't backward compatible
  214. # [13:39] <MikeSmith> oh, "CKEditor Project Lead"
  215. # [13:39] <MikeSmith> anyway it's a CSS issue issn't it?
  216. # [13:39] <ondras> that's why he mentioned a special property for turning this feature on
  217. # [13:39] <jgraham> Yes
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  219. # [13:43] <MikeSmith> doesn't CKEditor has some problems? like doing some kind of stupid stuff and they refuse to fix it?
  220. # [13:44] <ondras> even if they did, is that relevant for considering a feature request? :)
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  222. # [13:46] <MikeSmith> well I'm not considering it anyway
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  228. # [13:59] <Ms2ger> Wasn't it CKEditor that used element.all?
  229. # [13:59] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: Amongst other things
  230. # [13:59] <gsnedders> CKEditor does lots of evil stuff, from memory
  231. # [14:01] * jgraham cries
  232. # [14:01] <jgraham> I hate the web
  233. # [14:01] <jgraham> Well specifically
  234. # [14:01] <jgraham> I hate that thing where you develop something that works fine in one browser
  235. # [14:01] <jgraham> and fails in all others
  236. # [14:01] <jgraham> Without so much as an error on the console
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  242. # [14:06] <Ms2ger> Sounds like the web alright
  243. # [14:08] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@213.166.174.2) (Client Quit)
  244. # [14:08] <gsnedders> WEB 3.0!
  245. # [14:08] <jgraham> Oh
  246. # [14:08] <jgraham> It was all my fault
  247. # [14:08] <jgraham> Come back web, all is forgiven
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  256. # [14:23] <zcorpan> jgraham: that doesn't appear to be what they want. li {color:green} already makes the marker green. They want <li><font color=green>foo</font> to make the marker green
  257. # [14:24] <odinho> lol
  258. # [14:24] <odinho> crazy
  259. # [14:25] <jgraham> zcorpan: Oh
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  264. # [14:29] <annevk> ondras: catch is no longer reserved
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  266. # [14:37] <jgraham> http://hoppipolla.co.uk/410/workers.html
  267. # [14:37] <jgraham> based on an adaptation of Ms2ger's test runner and a script to create reports from JSON
  268. # [14:38] <jgraham> Not finished yet obviously, but better than editing a wiki page I think
  269. # [14:38] <MikeSmith> hell yeah
  270. # [14:39] <MikeSmith> this is great
  271. # [14:39] <Ms2ger> Mine had neat colours ;)
  272. # [14:40] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Funny, I wa just going to say that someone should do the visual design
  273. # [14:40] <jgraham> Because it turns out that a) I suck at it and b) I get to trying to do it and want to scoop my own eyes out
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  275. # [14:40] <jgraham> https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/4f68f6e66ab2ec1b62a2d8c035e845f35707346d is the code (jgraham/runner branch in web-platform-tests)
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  277. # [14:41] <Ms2ger> The one thing that would be nice is having lines between the tests
  278. # [14:41] <Ms2ger> s/tests/test files/
  279. # [14:41] <MikeSmith> I think it's fine as-is
  280. # [14:41] <jgraham> Yeah, sure there are simple things I could do that would make it not obviously terrible
  281. # [14:41] <MikeSmith> reading test results should be hard and challenging
  282. # [14:41] <jgraham> Heh
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  284. # [14:42] * jgraham will go into the office now
  285. # [14:43] <Ms2ger> Isn't it, like, afternoon there?
  286. # [14:43] <annevk> he missed mozlunch
  287. # [14:44] <annevk> not many people around
  288. # [14:44] <Ms2ger> <meta charset="utf8"></meta>
  289. # [14:44] <annevk> so close
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  291. # [14:47] <annevk> Ah, I already analyzed gbk vs gb18030 before!
  292. # [14:47] <annevk> hsivonen: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2012Apr/0030.html
  293. # [14:47] <ondras> annevk: ah, I guess I need to update my version of google chrome compiler then...
  294. # [14:47] <annevk> It seems I just draw conclusions that were wrong for gb18030 UTFness.
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  297. # [14:49] <annevk> In fact, if I use Firefox' gb18030 table I think that will make gb18030 a UTF and we can still use it for gbk (and just make gbk an alias for gb18030)
  298. # [14:54] <gsnedders> Isn't taht what some browser already does?
  299. # [14:57] <annevk> Presto had something close to that
  300. # [14:57] <annevk> But still had a flag, as seen in the Encoding Standard
  301. # [14:57] <annevk> However, in Presto gb18030 was not a UTF
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  303. # [14:58] <gsnedders> What stops it from being a UTF in Presto/Chrome?
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  306. # [14:59] <annevk> In Chrome gb18030 is a UTF.
  307. # [14:59] <annevk> In Presto a bunch of two-byte sequences does not map to PUA
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  313. # [15:02] <darobin> given how often people will have to do template.content.cloneNode(true), with the likelihood of getting it wrong, I wonder if we shouldn't have a template.instance() method that just sugars that
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  316. # [15:04] <Ms2ger> jgraham, want to send me the results for workers so I can test changes?
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  324. # [15:09] <reggna> So, how do I remove a TextTrack from a TextTrackList?
  325. # [15:11] <annevk> reggna: looks like you don't
  326. # [15:11] <reggna> Yea, I can't find anything either.
  327. # [15:12] <reggna> There's an event though.
  328. # [15:12] <annevk> reggna: well if you remove e.g. the corresponding <track> element
  329. # [15:12] <annevk> reggna: but if they're all internal to the resource I don't think you can manipulate them
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  340. # [15:22] <reggna> I'm a bit saddened over this.
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  342. # [15:22] <reggna> But thanks for the quick answer, annevk. : )
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  345. # [15:22] <annevk> reggna: if you have a use case, file a bug
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  348. # [15:23] <annevk> reggna: best way to get a new feature
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  350. # [15:23] <reggna> Yea, my use case is "this would be very convenient for my test case". : P
  351. # [15:24] <reggna> So not that valid, unfortunately.
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  369. # [15:33] <annevk> hah
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  382. # [15:51] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Specially ofr you I have amde it really ugly so that someone is forced to improve the style
  383. # [15:52] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Do you want the json files?
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  385. # [15:52] <Ms2ger> jgraham, whatever the input to report.py is
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  387. # [15:55] <jgraham> Ms2ger: http://hoppipolla.co.uk/410/workers/
  388. # [15:56] <Ms2ger> Thanks
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  394. # [16:10] <Ms2ger> Uh: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/blob/76e0d1ba75c95f95cb6e24c42f84c15ca18c39ef/workers/WorkerGlobalScope_removeEventListener.htm#L45
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  398. # [16:12] <annevk> IE10 doesn't support overrideMimeType?!
  399. # [16:12] <annevk> Bah
  400. # Session Close: Mon Dec 16 16:15:24 2013
  401. #
  402. # Session Start: Mon Dec 16 16:15:24 2013
  403. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  404. # [16:15] * Disconnected
  405. # [16:18] * Attempting to rejoin channel #whatwg
  406. # [16:18] * Rejoined channel #whatwg
  407. # [16:18] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ & http://logbot.glob.com.au/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  408. # [16:18] * Set by smaug____!~chatzilla@GGZYYCCCXVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi on Wed Mar 21 17:14:24
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  412. # [16:19] <Ms2ger> cellspacing=0?
  413. # [16:19] <jgraham> :p
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  415. # [16:19] <jgraham> I was on a train and couldn't remember the right kind of CSS
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  419. # [16:21] <Ms2ger> Did you also forget to add report.css?
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  421. # [16:22] <jgraham> Probably :)
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  423. # [16:23] <jgraham> Added
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  425. # [16:23] <Ms2ger> Ta
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  428. # [16:30] <Ms2ger> jgraham, how about now? https://pastebin.mozilla.org/3789871
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  433. # [16:34] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Would be nice to add the style to the stylesheet.
  434. # [16:35] <jgraham> Not sure about the use of multiple <tbody>, but I guess it works
  435. # [16:35] <jgraham> Something has crashed so I can't scroll and see the rest of the patch. Or switch applications
  436. # [16:35] <Ms2ger> What do you mean about adding style to the stylesheet?
  437. # [16:36] <jgraham> Oh, I misread
  438. # [16:37] <jgraham> And I can scroll by mouse
  439. # [16:37] <jgraham> s/mpouse/keyboard/
  440. # [16:37] <jgraham> Sure, that looks fine
  441. # [16:37] <jgraham> please push
  442. # [16:39] * Ms2ger pushes
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  455. # [16:42] <Ms2ger> Oh, tobie's fellowship is ending?
  456. # [16:42] <jgraham> Yup
  457. # [16:42] <jgraham> Although I don't know what the cpntext is
  458. # [16:46] <tobie> Ms2ger: yup, in two weeks.
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  477. # [16:48] <gsnedders> tobie: And I presume nobody will properly take over what you were doing? :(
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  484. # [16:51] <tobie> gsnedders: well, unfortunately, no W3C member(s) stepped up to continue funding this effort further so far, so answer is "no" for the time being. :(
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  488. # [16:53] <Ms2ger> Someone talk to dbaron? :)
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  520. # [16:59] <annevk> The W3C should reshuffle its Staff a bit
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  528. # [16:59] <annevk> plenty of people there...
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  544. # [17:06] <jgraham> Dammit
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  547. # [17:06] <jgraham> Now I want to post the example implementation report thing to webapps and public-test-infra
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  561. # [17:16] <Ms2ger> jgraham, ?
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  724. # [18:13] <MikeSmith> this window.find() opening up a "find in page" control, I seem to remember reading about it in bugzilla or a mailing list recently but I can't remember where
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  744. # [18:42] <jgraham> MikeSmith: webapps, I think?
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  751. # [18:48] <MikeSmith> jgraham: ok
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  755. # [18:51] <MikeSmith> this whole standards-discussion stuff is so time consuming
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  761. # [18:52] <MikeSmith> I think we should all skip it and just unilaterally mint stuff in the browser engines that we all ship for iOS
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  763. # [18:54] <annevk> zewt: but what if there's an IO error
  764. # [18:54] <annevk> zewt: if you're saying it should just stop reading at that point, I think we're in agreement
  765. # [18:55] <annevk> zewt: which is why I said we need an underlying model
  766. # [18:55] * MikeSmith re-finds the "browser search api" thread
  767. # [18:56] <zewt> annevk: not sure what you mean
  768. # [18:56] <zewt> if there's a *real* IO error (user ejects the DVD holding the file the blob points to), yeah, there's an error
  769. # [18:56] <annevk> zewt: uhuh
  770. # [18:57] <zewt> but I don't think calling close() should cause any new IO errors to be called on fetches already in progress
  771. # [18:57] <annevk> zewt: that's what we were talking about
  772. # [18:57] <annevk> zewt: we were talking beyond close()
  773. # [18:57] <zewt> no, we're talking about close()
  774. # [18:57] <annevk> no
  775. # [18:57] <jgraham> maybe?
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  777. # [18:58] <zewt> uh, the whole subthread is about "you can close() a Blob ... shouldn't affect the running operation"
  778. # [18:58] <annevk> yeah, but sicking specifically asked about IO errors to see if we can apply that to what should happen for close()
  779. # [18:58] <annevk> I said I had no idea what happened for IO errors (crash)
  780. # [18:59] <zewt> well I'm saying that close() shouldn't cause IO errors for stuff already in progress before you called close
  781. # [19:00] <annevk> -_-
  782. # [19:00] <zewt> ...
  783. # [19:00] <annevk> I mean that much was already established early on
  784. # [19:00] <annevk> That's not really the interesting bit
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  786. # [19:01] <annevk> Anyway, euc-kr
  787. # [19:01] <zewt> the only thing that was established early on is "this is underspecified"
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  789. # [19:01] <zewt> (and also anyway, time to get back to my actual work...)
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  805. # [19:27] <Domenic_> So <dialog> is still show()/close()?
  806. # [19:28] <annevk> Domenic_: yes
  807. # [19:29] <Domenic_> despite the web dev feedback that that was crazy-sauce?
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  811. # [19:33] <annevk> Domenic_: feedback where? I remember you discussed it here with Hixie and he ended up reaching the conclusion that there was no good alternative
  812. # [19:34] <Domenic_> annevk: http://updates.html5rocks.com/2013/09/dialog-element-Modals-made-easy#disqus_thread
  813. # [19:35] <jgraham> Domenic_: There is an open bug on the issue
  814. # [19:35] <jgraham> Why would you assume it will be ignored?
  815. # [19:35] <annevk> Domenic_: see end of http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2013Sep/0230.html
  816. # [19:35] <Domenic_> jgraham: I guess because Chrome keeps on chugging away at implementation.
  817. # [19:35] <annevk> jgraham: well it's filed against W3C HTML
  818. # [19:35] <annevk> jgraham: the one filed against WHATWG HTML is marked WFM
  819. # [19:35] <annevk> with a reference to that email I just mentioned
  820. # [19:36] <jgraham> annevk: Fair point. Sucks to have them fork the spec
  821. # [19:36] <Domenic_> jgraham: also because of the thread annevk just linked to
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  825. # [19:37] <jgraham> Domenic_: That is a reasonable answer
  826. # [19:37] <annevk> Domenic_: that does not mean ignored though
  827. # [19:37] <jgraham> Anyway I think Hixie is wrong and it should be show/hide
  828. # [19:38] <jgraham> But this is way down the list of problems on the platform
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  830. # [19:38] <jgraham> (well actually I think it should be open/close, but it seemed like there might be a more reasonable reason to avoid "open")
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  833. # [19:39] <annevk> open="" and open() don't go together
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  837. # [19:45] <annevk> Domenic_: as in, it seems to have been considered and no real viable alternative was proposed that was obviously better
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  860. # [20:06] <Hixie> i definitely considered the open/close/show/hide thing. did a ton of research for it to figure out what to change it to. was surprised by the result, which was that the spec already matched most platforms.
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  924. # [22:05] <rdebeasi> From the perspective of an author, many existing JS frameworks implement show/hide rather than show/close for similar behavior.
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  940. # [22:48] <Hixie> rdebeasi: i actually looked for data to support that, but couldn't find any that isn't listed in that e-mail. if you do have data i missed, please do reply to that e-mail giving the new data :-)
  941. # [22:48] <Hixie> (though it might be too late by now)
  942. # [22:52] <rdebeasi> Sure, will do! It certainly couldn't hurt.
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  946. # [23:02] <annevk> https://twitter.com/WTFMarketing/status/412616169850281984 :-)
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  969. # [23:47] <zcorpan> now i have 100 tests on \u00E5 in the query of a url
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  972. # [23:48] <zcorpan> someone: pls review
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  977. # [23:53] <zcorpan> hmm, in 5 different encodings, so i guess 500 tests
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  984. # [23:58] <annevk> zcorpan: should this really be in the HTML directory?
  985. # [23:58] <zcorpan> annevk: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/urls.html#resolving-urls is in the html spec
  986. # [23:59] <zcorpan> annevk: i guess the css tests don't belong, but oh well
  987. # Session Close: Tue Dec 17 00:00:00 2013

The end :)