/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-01-27 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Jan 27 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  20. # [00:51] <TabAtkins> As written, no.
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  28. # [01:10] <ytrezq> Hello, How I may enable content-encoding compression from a CGI script? I mean how I can set the correct line in the http header?
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  51. # [02:09] <gsnedders> So Test262 is on GitHub, and they're considering merging the PRs as enough for licensing, so yay easier submissions!
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  53. # [02:09] <gsnedders> On the other hand, will they keep up with PRs?
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  55. # [02:25] <annevk-cloud> Ms2ger: looks like you should file a bug
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  105. # [04:34] <foolip> is it considered ugly to use float in WebIDL?
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  108. # [04:35] <foolip> we're considering making some attributes float in WebVTT, but if we go with double we're going to waste memory, which I don't want
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  110. # [04:36] <foolip> but with float you can have a strange case that the value you set is not the value you then get back (in JavaScript, that is)
  111. # [04:36] <foolip> nessy: ^
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  114. # [04:54] <nessy> foolip: float is part of WebIDL http://www.w3.org/TR/WebIDL/#idl-float - but yeah, is there a preference?
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  120. # [05:05] <nessy> foolip: I just checked and there are no "float" values in use in IDL in the HTML spec, if that's any indication (they are all double)
  121. # [05:07] <nessy> foolip: my guess is it's left to the browser as a quality of implementation issue (but Hixie can clarify)
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  151. # [06:50] <Hixie> foolip: why would it waste memory, given that it's going to be a JS Number in any case?
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  167. # [07:34] <zcorpan> foolip: http://heycam.github.io/webidl/#idl-float says double is preferred
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  170. # [07:38] <Domenic_> One day, it will all be "number." With some validation annotations.
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  172. # [07:40] <Domenic_> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24241#c4
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  174. # [07:56] <foolip> Hixie: if the IDL says double and you store it as float internally, it seems trivial to write a test case that would fail: cue.line=veryPreciseNumber;assert(cue.line==veryPrecisNumber)
  175. # [07:56] <foolip> zcorpan: have you looked through https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19836 ?
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  178. # [08:00] <zcorpan> foolip: have now
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  180. # [08:06] <foolip> zcorpan: WDYT?
  181. # [08:06] <foolip> I don't want the implementation to have to store these things as double internally, that's just wasteful
  182. # [08:08] <zcorpan> foolip: i'm not competent about memory stuff, but can't you just store as double when necessary and use a more compact type otherwise?
  183. # [08:09] <zcorpan> foolip: i'd just specify double and let the smart guys figure out how to do it efficiently :-)
  184. # [08:09] <foolip> zcorpan: not really, having two different representations massively complicates things, it'll end up worse than just using double everywhere
  185. # [08:10] <foolip> zcorpan: would you complain when your test case fails to get the same number out of the attribute as you put in?
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  187. # [08:10] <zcorpan> foolip: that seems like the wrong question
  188. # [08:11] <zcorpan> foolip: more relevant is if authors would complain or worse, write buggy code but not realize it
  189. # [08:13] <zcorpan> foolip: but i fail to see how this attribute is different from all other doubles in html
  190. # [08:13] <foolip> I don't know, is it common for things that are double to not actually have double precision?
  191. # [08:14] <zcorpan> at some point html changed all floats to doubles
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  193. # [08:15] <foolip> so WebIDL says "Unless there are specific reasons to use a 32 bit floating point type, specifications should use double rather than float"
  194. # [08:15] <foolip> is "we don't need double precision" a "specific reason"? :)
  195. # [08:16] <zcorpan> if it was it wouldn't say that :-P
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  197. # [08:18] <zcorpan> video.volume is double
  198. # [08:19] <foolip> the thing with cues is that you will have lots of them, so small differences matter more
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  200. # [08:20] <foolip> so, OK, I guess that using float in WebIDL isn't cool, now what
  201. # [08:21] <foolip> I suppose just use float internally and hope that nobody writes that test case
  202. # [08:23] <zcorpan> no :-)
  203. # [08:23] <zcorpan> ask on public-script-coord, the "there are lots of cues" reason might be valid
  204. # [08:24] <zcorpan> the same discussion was had about something in http://dev.w3.org/fxtf/geometry/ ... i don't remember what the reasoning was but it seems it now doesn't use float
  205. # [08:26] <foolip> zcorpan: ok, will allow double into the spec first and write that email second
  206. # [08:26] <foolip> nessy: ^
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  218. # [09:16] <Ms2ger> Hrm
  219. # [09:17] <Ms2ger> If you call click() on a disabled button, should a click event be fired?
  220. # [09:19] <foolip> Ms2ger: "yes" seems like the simplest answer
  221. # [09:19] <Ms2ger> Is there anything wrong with my test at http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/2775?
  222. # [09:22] <foolip> Ms2ger: probably, but http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/elements.html#run-synthetic-click-activation-steps doesn't seem to cared about disabled, so that bit doesn't seem wrong
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  336. # [15:31] <macfreek> Hi, I dropped a mail to admin@wiki.whatwg.org for an account, but did not yet get a reply. If someone here is able to help, please reply. Thanks!
  337. # [15:31] <macfreek> (the mail was send last Friday)
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  342. # [15:38] <MikeSmith> macfreek: will look now
  343. # [15:38] <macfreek> thanks.
  344. # [15:38] <MikeSmith> but please hang around here longer than 5 minutes this time :)
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  347. # [15:38] <macfreek> NP :)
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  353. # [15:43] <gsnedders> Is there any Java DOM impl that works with nu.validator.htmlparser.dom.HTMLDocumentBuilder with XMLViolationPolicy = ALLOW?
  354. # [15:44] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: not that I'm aware of
  355. # [15:44] <gsnedders> Okay.
  356. # [15:44] <MikeSmith> but I'm not so familiar with what's out there
  357. # [15:44] <MikeSmith> hsivonen would certainly know better
  358. # [15:44] <MikeSmith> and maybe smola
  359. # [15:44] <gsnedders> I'm probably best suited just creating a minimal TreeBuilder that just keeps the parser right, anyway.
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  362. # [15:46] <MikeSmith> yeah that might not require so much effort really
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  368. # [15:52] <hsivonen> gsnedders: I don't know, but it seemed sensible to keep open the option that someone might write one
  369. # [15:52] <hsivonen> gsnedders: You might want SaxTree
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  375. # [15:57] <MikeSmith> macfreek: please either DM me your e-mail address and username you want, or just type in here
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  378. # [16:02] <gsnedders> hsivonen, MikeSmith: if I come up with a whole load of questions, should I ask you here, by email personally, or some ML?
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  382. # [16:08] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: I would be happier with questions here but hsivonen would be more help than me and I suspect he'd prefer direct e-mail so that's probably a better choice
  383. # [16:11] <gsnedders> The other important question before starting anything: is it up to date with the spec?
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  396. # [16:27] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: the parser behavior is as up to date with the spec as the gecko parser is
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  402. # [16:39] <hsivonen> gsnedders: You can ask here or in email. the latest .zip release is not up to date. (I should fix.) The repo is almost up to date except for a couple of minor things.
  403. # [16:39] <gsnedders> hsivonen: I was looking at the repo anyway :)
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  504. # [19:07] <Hixie> well https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24408 is special
  505. # [19:08] <Hixie> foolip: depends if it's readonly or writable, i'm not clear on what you're doing exactly
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  509. # [19:11] <Hixie> Ms2ger: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24396 what am i supposed to do? is this different from the bug it was cloned from? i'm confused.
  510. # [19:11] <Ms2ger> Hixie, document != window
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  512. # [19:12] <Hixie> there's two sets of these? jesus
  513. # [19:13] <Domenic_> So the usual way of extending navigator with a "namespace" seems to be... creating a non-constructable class, somehow magically constructing an instance of it, then putting that instance on `navigator`?
  514. # [19:13] <Hixie> what do you mean by "namespace"?
  515. # [19:14] <Domenic_> e.g. navigator.storageQuota.queryInfo("temporary"), navigator.storageQuota.requestPersistentQuota(0), both functions are under the "storageQuota" namespace
  516. # [19:14] <Hixie> ah
  517. # [19:15] <Hixie> you don't want to use the word "namespace" for that, that's just confusing
  518. # [19:15] <Hixie> if you mean, "how do i add members to an interface defined in another specification", there's two ways that are considered good practice
  519. # [19:15] <Hixie> 1. ask the editor of said specification to add the member
  520. # [19:15] <Hixie> 2. create a "partial interface".
  521. # [19:15] <Domenic_> Sure, that's not the part I'm confused on
  522. # [19:16] <Domenic_> The part I'm confused on is what you put in that partial interface
  523. # [19:16] <Domenic_> it seems the tradition is to create a non-constructible class, then put a magically-constructed instance of that class in the partial interface
  524. # [19:16] <jgraham> Yes
  525. # [19:17] <Domenic_> welp
  526. # [19:17] <jgraham> Well it's not like anyone actually finds it hard to use
  527. # [19:18] <Hixie> wait, what?
  528. # [19:18] <Hixie> how do you put a "magically-constructed instance" of a "non-constructible class" in an interface?
  529. # [19:18] <jgraham> and we couldn't have really waited until 20XY for ES to finally standardise modules
  530. # [19:18] <Domenic_> jgraham: could have just used normal objects and functions
  531. # [19:18] <Domenic_> Hixie: using magic WebIDL powers
  532. # [19:18] <jgraham> Hixie: I assume he means something like navigator in window.navigator
  533. # [19:19] <Hixie> if you want to add "requestPersistentQuota" to "storageQuota" you just say "partial interface StorageQuota { void requestPersistentQuota() }"
  534. # [19:19] <Domenic_> you can put [NoInterfaceObject] on something, but still somehow create instances of it by doing readonly attribute NonConstructibleClass thingy
  535. # [19:19] <jgraham> Domenic_: Not sure how that would have been better. Or necessarily worked at all
  536. # [19:19] <Hixie> oh you mean how do you put the storageQuota attribute itself onto Navigator?
  537. # [19:19] <Domenic_> jgraham: pretty simple. navigator.storageQuota = { queryInfo() { /* algorithm for query info */ }, requestPersistentQuota() { /* algorithm for requesting a quota */ } };
  538. # [19:20] <Domenic_> Hixie: yes, that's the issue.
  539. # [19:20] * jorendorff is now known as jorendorff_away
  540. # [19:20] <Hixie> partial interface Navigator { readonly attribute StorageQuota storageQuota; }, "on getting, the storageQuota attribute must return an instance of the StorageQuota interface. The same instance must be returned each time."
  541. # [19:20] <Hixie> and interface StorageQuota { }
  542. # [19:21] <Hixie> no need for any [attributes]
  543. # [19:21] <jgraham> Hixie: This isn't a practical question afaict
  544. # [19:21] <Hixie> oh
  545. # [19:21] <jgraham> This is a theoretical purity question
  546. # [19:21] <Domenic_> well, ok, if StorageQuota is constructible, then that makes sense
  547. # [19:21] <Domenic_> this isn't very theoretical
  548. # [19:21] <Domenic_> this is a "how would i implement this API in jsdom" question
  549. # [19:21] <Hixie> why would it be constructible?
  550. # [19:21] <Hixie> it has no constructor
  551. # [19:21] <Domenic_> how do you create instances of it then?
  552. # [19:21] <Hixie> you just do
  553. # [19:21] <Hixie> the browser can do whatever
  554. # [19:21] <Domenic_> ... O_O
  555. # [19:22] <jgraham> Domenic_: In general the idea that you can write the DOM in pure JS with no external environment is brokwn
  556. # [19:22] <jgraham> *broken
  557. # [19:22] <Hixie> interfaces defined in IDL can't ever be constructed from JS, they're all "magical" in that they have browser code backing it
  558. # [19:23] <Hixie> i mean even if they have constructors, what you get back is a browser-implemented instance
  559. # [19:23] <Domenic_> jgraham: all i'm asking is for the DOM to expose objects to JavaScript that actually can be implemented in JavaScript. Not APIs that are impossible for a normal JS programmer to ever create and expose to another JS programmer.
  560. # [19:23] <Hixie> the prototypes are browser-created prototypes
  561. # [19:23] <Hixie> etc
  562. # [19:23] <Hixie> i don't understand
  563. # [19:23] <Hixie> why would you ever want to create one of these from JS?
  564. # [19:23] <Domenic_> this is basically a document.all issue
  565. # [19:24] <Domenic_> it's impossible for JS to create an object that has properties but is falsy
  566. # [19:24] <Domenic_> similarly it's impossible for JS to create a non-constructible class that somehow also has instances existing as a property of navigator
  567. # [19:24] <Hixie> it's like how you can't create a Win32 window without using the Win32 API
  568. # [19:24] <Domenic_> both are crazy
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  570. # [19:27] <Hixie> what do you mean by "non-constructible class" exactly?
  571. # [19:27] <Hixie> in JS there are no classes and everything is constructible, no?
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  573. # [19:27] <Hixie> i guess only Functions are constructible
  574. # [19:28] <Hixie> i don't really understand the question
  575. # [19:28] <Domenic_> "class" in JS is shorthand for constructor function with a well-defined prototype
  576. # [19:28] <Domenic_> (formalized in ES6 by the `class` keyword syntactic sugar)
  577. # [19:28] <jgraham> Hixie: There's no value of X such that new X() will give you back a storageQuota
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  579. # [19:29] <Domenic_> jgraham: and, that wouldn't be a problem, except that Object.getPrototypeOf(navigator.storageQuota) gives you a well defined StorageQuota.prototype object
  580. # [19:29] <Hixie> jgraham: isn't that true for all objects in DOM?
  581. # [19:29] <jgraham> Hixie: Not really
  582. # [19:29] <jgraham> I mean you can do new Event() these days
  583. # [19:30] <Hixie> sure but it's not a generic JS-backed Event
  584. # [19:30] <Hixie> it's a browser-implemented Event
  585. # [19:30] <jgraham> Sure
  586. # [19:30] <Hixie> so it's not a "class"
  587. # [19:30] <Domenic_> sure it is
  588. # [19:30] <Domenic_> it's a function which vends instances of its prototype
  589. # [19:30] <Domenic_> (when called with `new`)
  590. # [19:30] <jgraham> Well it depends on whether you can actually implement an Event in js with equivalent semantics
  591. # [19:30] <Hixie> its prototype is kinda useless though, it's full of native code functions
  592. # [19:31] <Domenic_> that's a useful prototype
  593. # [19:31] <Hixie> i guess i don't understand what we're talking about then
  594. # [19:31] <Domenic_> the problem is not that sometimes methods can be [native code]
  595. # [19:31] <Hixie> what's the problem we're trying to solve?
  596. # [19:31] * jorendorff_away is now known as jorendorff
  597. # [19:31] <Domenic_> the problem is that you can create frankenstein objects exposed to JS but not possible for a JS programmer to ever create himself, or to encounter outside of this weird browser world
  598. # [19:32] <jgraham> OK, then I am also confused. I also don't understand how far down you want to push this
  599. # [19:32] <jgraham> I don't understand why you care about being able to do new X() but not about the fact that you can't implement any of the properties of an X
  600. # [19:32] <Domenic_> such as, a `storageQuota` property which is an instance of `StorageQuota.prototype` where `StorageQuota` is not actually a constructor but instead a function that always throws.
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  602. # [19:33] <Hixie> why is "you can create frankenstein objects exposed to JS but not possible for a JS programmer to ever create himself" a problem?
  603. # [19:33] <Domenic_> well, i think that's our fundamental point of contention :)
  604. # [19:33] <jgraham> (one could create an object in JS that would allow something to be constructed once, but not again, I think)
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  607. # [19:34] <Hixie> Domenic_: is it a problem that the same is true in the Win32 API? That there are concepts that exist as singletons in the API and can't be created from user code?
  608. # [19:34] <Domenic_> jgraham: not a bad mental model. I might be pacified.
  609. # [19:34] <Domenic_> Hixie: there are no concepts in the Win32 API that can't be implemented in C
  610. # [19:35] <Domenic_> that's the analogy
  611. # [19:35] <Hixie> Domenic_: sure there are.
  612. # [19:35] <Domenic_> Oh?
  613. # [19:35] <Hixie> Domenic_: a Win32 Window can't be created by a C program without using the Win32 API.
  614. # [19:35] <Hixie> jgraham: in pure JS, you can always just create a new object that is identical to an existing object, as far as i can tell. just copy all its members.
  615. # [19:35] <Domenic_> sure. but Window itself is implementable in C
  616. # [19:35] <Hixie> Domenic_: well sure. You could implement an entire browser in JavaScript, too.
  617. # [19:36] <Domenic_> Window isn't some weird thing that follows different rules than all other objects exposed to C code
  618. # [19:36] <Domenic_> s/exposed to/created by/
  619. # [19:36] <Hixie> yes it is?
  620. # [19:36] <Hixie> i mean, not _all_ other objects
  621. # [19:36] <Hixie> there's tons of stuff vended by the Win32 API
  622. # [19:36] <Hixie> File handles, for example
  623. # [19:37] <Domenic_> sure. but they're structs, or pointers, or whatever
  624. # [19:37] <Hixie> so?
  625. # [19:37] <Hixie> you can't just make your own
  626. # [19:37] <Hixie> you have to use the one handed to you by the Win32 API, otherwise it won't work
  627. # [19:37] <Domenic_> not, e.g. pointers which can only be dereferenced once, or some similar strange thing that breaks language invariants
  628. # [19:38] <Hixie> just redefine your idea of what is a JS invariant to not include things that are done by the DOM API
  629. # [19:38] <Hixie> then your problem is solved
  630. # [19:38] <Domenic_> yes, that would certainly do the trick
  631. # [19:38] <Hixie> a better analogy would be a unix process
  632. # [19:39] <Domenic_> if I was programming in JS + magic C++ powers, I would have a different set of invariants. And I realize spec writers *are* programming in that language.
  633. # [19:39] <Hixie> there's no way that a C program can create a process, short of asking the unix kernel to do so
  634. # [19:39] <Domenic_> But the process will be represented by a normal C object that obeys C invariants
  635. # [19:39] <Hixie> no? at best it's represented as an integer.
  636. # [19:39] <Hixie> you can't actually get to the object itself.
  637. # [19:40] <Hixie> it's only visible to kernel code.
  638. # [19:40] <Domenic_> yes yes. an integer that obeys C invariants, is my point
  639. # [19:40] <Domenic_> the only thing visible to C is things that obey C invariants
  640. # [19:40] <Domenic_> that's exactly what I'm saying
  641. # [19:40] <Hixie> no, the integer you get back is a kernel process handle.
  642. # [19:40] <Hixie> no other integer is that.
  643. # [19:40] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.219.11) (Quit: weinig)
  644. # [19:40] <Domenic_> whereas in the DOM there are many things available to JS that do not obey JS invariants
  645. # [19:40] <Hixie> C integers have invariants like "you can add 1 to it and it'll still be useful"
  646. # [19:41] <Domenic_> *language* invariants
  647. # [19:41] <Hixie> do that to a PID and you get nothing useful at all.
  648. # [19:41] <Hixie> what do you mean by "language"?
  649. # [19:41] <Domenic_> not human semantic "invariants"
  650. # [19:41] <Domenic_> I mean, in the C language spec
  651. # [19:41] <Hixie> so if we put the DOM spec inside the JS spec you'd suddenly be ok with it?
  652. # [19:41] <Domenic_> Yeah, I guess so.
  653. # [19:42] <Hixie> ok. then imagine there is one huge spec labeled "The Web" that contains all these specs.
  654. # [19:42] <Hixie> that's what i've been arguing we should do for years.
  655. # [19:42] <Domenic_> heh
  656. # [19:42] <Hixie> it's just that for practical purposes we're editing it in separate docs for now.
  657. # [19:42] <Domenic_> i think there's value in stratifying into e.g. language and libraries
  658. # [19:42] <Domenic_> and making sure libraries obey invariants of the language
  659. # [19:43] <Hixie> i think this requires defining "language" and that any such definition would be arbitrary
  660. # [19:43] <Domenic_> traditionally it's pretty clear how to define programming languages as separate from their runtimes or libraries. the success of JS in both node and browser environments seems like an obvious thing to bring up here.
  661. # [19:44] <Hixie> nah, the line is always very blurry.
  662. # [19:44] <Hixie> is CORE::* in Perl part of the language, or the library?
  663. # [19:45] <Hixie> is system.oas part of the Pascal language, or the library?
  664. # [19:45] <Hixie> system.pas even
  665. # [19:45] <Hixie> are RegExp and Date part of the JS language, or the library?
  666. # [19:46] <Hixie> is it bad that you can't create your own RegExp-like or String-like object with its own literals, in JS?
  667. # [19:46] <Hixie> or are they part of the language?
  668. # [19:46] <Hixie> why is a "realm" part of the language, but "Window" part of the library?
  669. # [19:47] <Domenic_> fair. i guess you can take an empirical "greatest common factor" approach.
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  671. # [19:48] <Hixie> i'll agree to that, so long as you agree that the JS language used in Node and the JS language used in browsers are different JS languages.
  672. # [19:48] <Hixie> very similar, granted, but different nonetheless.
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  674. # [19:49] * jorendorff is now known as jorendorff_away
  675. # [19:49] <Domenic_> i don't see that; what's the argument?
  676. # [19:50] <Hixie> "this", in browsers, isn't the global object
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  678. # [19:50] <Hixie> it's a WindowProxy object.
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  680. # [19:50] <Domenic_> oh fuck :P
  681. # [19:50] <Domenic_> yeah you're right
  682. # [19:50] <Domenic_> also the JS in browsers has the ability to create falsy objects with properties
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  684. # [19:51] <Domenic_> those are the two actual modifications to the language spec if i recall
  685. # [19:51] <Hixie> at which point, the "greatest common factor" of the browser version of JS includes most of the DOM, so... :-)
  686. # [19:51] <Domenic_> lol
  687. # [19:52] <Domenic_> i think i've been cornered by logic and must admit defeat
  688. # [19:52] <Hixie> À la fin de l'envoi, je touche.
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  693. # [19:59] <Hixie> btw i think a greatest common factor approach works for multiple implementations, but i don't know how to apply it to, say, perl5. is everything that ships with the basic compiler part of the language? That's a hell of a lot of libraries. I think a better approach may be to look at what you have access to without any explicit imports, which would include Core::* but not e.g. IO::Socket.
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  695. # [20:00] <Hixie> but if you do that, then on browsers the DOM still gets included as part of the core.
  696. # [20:00] <Hixie> that definition would exclude the STL from C++, though, which is intuitively nice.
  697. # [20:00] <Hixie> and it would include system.pas but exclude sysutils.pas in ObjectPascal, which also works neatly.
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  699. # [20:01] <Hixie> in C++ it would mean you had thread-local variables as part of the language, but pthreads (needed to make use of them) as part of a library.
  700. # [20:02] <Hixie> it would mean that the kernel was not part of the language, too, which is interesting and in contrast to the JS/DOM pair.
  701. # [20:05] * jorendorff_away is now known as jorendorff
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  703. # [20:14] <mrbkap> dglazkov: ping?
  704. # [20:15] <Ms2ger> Speaking of which
  705. # [20:15] <Ms2ger> I haven't bothered dglazkov about tests today
  706. # [20:16] <mrbkap> Ms2ger: get in line!
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  711. # [20:18] <Ms2ger> jsbell, ping!
  712. # [20:18] <jsbell> Ms2ger: ?
  713. # [20:19] <Ms2ger> jsbell, any reason the TextEncoder/Decoder tests aren't in web-platform-tests?
  714. # [20:20] <jsbell> just lack of time. (I think I got myself added to the right github groups but never did the work)
  715. # [20:20] <dglazkov> good almost noon, Whatwg!
  716. # [20:21] <Ms2ger> jsbell, you don't need any permissions to create a pull request :)
  717. # [20:21] <dglazkov> mrbkap: pong
  718. # [20:21] <mrbkap> dglazkov: hey, I was wondering if you'd seen https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24002 and https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24003
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  720. # [20:23] <dglazkov> mrbkap: I had not. morrita is currently wearing the imports spec editor hat, though
  721. # [20:23] <mrbkap> dglazkov: oh, ok.
  722. # [20:23] <dglazkov> mrbkap: will comment, though
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  724. # [20:25] <mrbkap> dglazkov: thanks.
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  726. # [20:26] <dglazkov> Ms2ger: I will review moar things on critic too. Is critic-as-preferred-tool expressed/documented anywhere? Because I see peeps doing in-line github reviews, too.
  727. # [20:27] <Ms2ger> dglazkov, I find it a lot easier to follow a review on github, but if you don't want to use better tools, you're free to comment on github :)
  728. # [20:27] <Ms2ger> s/follow/follow *than*/
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  732. # [20:34] <Hixie> heycam: why do you have this restriction?: If [Exposed] appears on an overloaded operation, then it must appear on all overloads, with the same identifier list.
  733. # [20:35] <Hixie> heycam: consider e.g. APIs that in workers take a string or an integer, but in Windows take a string, an integer, or a DOM node.
  734. # [20:35] <Ms2ger> [heycam is in a meeting discussing https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23682]
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  736. # [20:36] <Hixie> ok that's probably a better use of this time, granted
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  740. # [20:40] <Domenic_> Ms2ger: oh yay!
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  763. # [21:25] <heycam> Hixie, so that would have complicated invoking the overload resolution stuff and the checking of valid IDL stuff (things being distinguishable) so I wanted to avoid it unless we really need it
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  813. # [22:49] <Hixie> heycam: k
  814. # [22:49] <Hixie> heycam: i'll get back to you if i find a case
  815. # [22:49] <heycam> Hixie, cool; shouldn't be too hard to add, but more than I wanted to do at the time :)
  816. # [22:49] <Hixie> ok so here's one possible case
  817. # [22:49] <Hixie> from xhr:
  818. # [22:49] <Hixie> void send(optional (ArrayBufferView or Blob or Document or [EnsureUTF16] DOMString or FormData or URLSearchParams)? data = null);
  819. # [22:50] * jorendorff_away is now known as jorendorff
  820. # [22:50] <Hixie> (man, that's quite the type description)
  821. # [22:50] <heycam> isn't it
  822. # [22:50] <Hixie> i presume that the Document part of this will be Window-only
  823. # [22:50] <heycam> yeah
  824. # [22:50] <heycam> I wonder if we could do it automatically
  825. # [22:50] <heycam> knowing that Document is window only
  826. # [22:50] <heycam> or if that would be too subtle
  827. # [22:51] <Hixie> well so that's an interesting point
  828. # [22:51] <Hixie> does it matter what the _arguments_ to a method are?
  829. # [22:51] <Hixie> you can't actually get a Document from that
  830. # [22:51] <heycam> true
  831. # [22:51] <Hixie> and since you can't get a Document at all, it doesn't much matter what the overloads are...
  832. # [22:51] <heycam> you'll never have a Document
  833. # [22:51] <heycam> it might well be ok to just leave that there
  834. # [22:51] <Hixie> yeah...
  835. # [22:52] <heycam> I didn't add any IDL author conformance criteria preventing it
  836. # [22:52] <Hixie> let me try to convert HTML to this and see what happens
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  838. # [22:52] <heycam> ok
  839. # [22:52] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Quit: bholley)
  840. # [22:53] <Hixie> [PrimaryGlobal] implies [Global=Window] ?
  841. # [22:53] <heycam> yep
  842. # [22:53] <Hixie> k
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  844. # [22:53] <heycam> well, it implies [Global=TheInterfaceIt'sOn]
  845. # [22:53] <Hixie> oh ok
  846. # [22:53] <Hixie> cool
  847. # [22:53] <heycam> still trying to keep Window the name not special :)
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  849. # [22:55] <Hixie> let me know if anyone ever puts [PrimaryGlobal] on anything else
  850. # [22:55] <Hixie> i'd love to see that!
  851. # [22:56] <Hixie> do i have to expose things like enums or callbacks?
  852. # [22:56] <Hixie> wow it's surprising how many interfaces html defines that are just on Window
  853. # [22:57] <Hixie> how about typedefs?
  854. # [22:57] <jory> "Not sure where to put it? Why not try Window?"
  855. # [22:58] <Hixie> well mostly all the element interfaces
  856. # [22:58] <Hixie> descendants of Node
  857. # [22:58] <Hixie> i wonder if i should expose all the Event types
  858. # [22:58] <Hixie> just on general principle
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  864. # [23:06] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  865. # [23:07] <annevk> SimonSapin: 1024 ftw
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  871. # [23:12] <Hixie> should ApplicationWorker be exposed to Window,Worker, or just Window,SharedWorker? it'd be useless in a dedicated worker...
  872. # [23:15] <dglazkov> what's an ApplicationWorker?
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  874. # [23:16] <Hixie> uh
  875. # [23:16] <Hixie> ApplicationCache, my bad
  876. # [23:16] <Hixie> i have workers on the mind
  877. # [23:16] <dglazkov> darn it. I got excited :-\
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  880. # [23:16] <dglazkov> "it's a worker that fills out various applications for you"
  881. # [23:17] <dglazkov> new ApplicationWorker("mastercard");
  882. # [23:17] <Hixie> heh
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  884. # [23:17] <dglazkov> returns a Promise, of course.
  885. # [23:18] <Hixie> one that never gets fulfilled? :-)
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  887. # [23:18] <dglazkov> it's a asymptotic promise
  888. # [23:18] <Hixie> heycam|away: is there any point doing [Exposed] on a [NoInterfaceObject] interface?
  889. # [23:19] <Hixie> heycam|away: or should the [Exposed] maybe instead be on the "implements" statement?
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  897. # [23:30] <Hixie> heycam|away: or alternatively, there should be a rule that says that a Global to which an interface isn't exposed can't reference the interface, either via "implements" or via reference
  898. # [23:30] <Hixie> heycam|away: and then that should continue down the chain, so we can check we haven't forgotten to expose something
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  922. # [23:58] <Hixie> heycam|away: i guess the ancestor of the global doesn't need to be told to be exposed, right?
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  924. # Session Close: Tue Jan 28 00:00:00 2014

The end :)