/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-01-31 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Jan 31 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  37. # [00:59] <annevk> whoa
  38. # [00:59] <annevk> major shift in promises
  39. # [00:59] <annevk> for the better
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  41. # [00:59] <annevk> it seems
  42. # [00:59] <Domenic_> :)
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  47. # [01:04] <heycam> annevk, Domenic_, anything I need to change in IDL?
  48. # [01:04] <Domenic_> heycam: It sounds like Promise.cast will get renamed to Promise.resolve
  49. # [01:04] <heycam> Domenic_, ok
  50. # [01:04] <heycam> Domenic_, in the next ES6 draft I guess?
  51. # [01:04] <Domenic_> heycam: yeah
  52. # [01:04] <heycam> Domenic_, ok cool
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  106. # [02:30] <dominiquenf> good evening
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  297. # [09:41] <zcorpan> is http://www.khronos.org/registry/typedarray/specs/latest/ the current spec for typed arrays or has it moved to ES land?
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  299. # [09:42] * zcorpan finds https://people.mozilla.org/~jorendorff/es6-draft.html#sec-typedarray-objects
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  312. # [10:02] <zcorpan> yoav: yeah so long as the black-box observable behavior is equivalent it can be implemented in any way
  313. # [10:02] <yoav> zcorpan: I agree in 100%
  314. # [10:03] <zcorpan> yoav: what do you think this should do? <!doctype html><div id=x><script>x.remove();</script><img src=foo onload=alert(1)>
  315. # [10:04] <zcorpan> yoav: (the img will be inserted into the removed div by the parser)
  316. # [10:05] <yoav> I think that the src should be triggered as soon as the img is inserted (even if the div is removed)
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  318. # [10:05] <yoav> The only reason we need to wait, is to see if the parent is picture
  319. # [10:05] <yoav> But I completely agree that this area should be well specified, and currently it isn't
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  321. # [10:07] <zcorpan> ok, then it's different to "inserted to the document"
  322. # [10:07] <zcorpan> i'm pondering if i should take a stab at specifying this
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  324. # [10:11] <yoav> zcorpan: If you're willing, it'd be highly appreciated
  325. # [10:13] <zcorpan> yoav: do i get any chocolate? :-)
  326. # [10:14] <yoav> zcorpan: I'll see what I can do :)
  327. # [10:15] <zcorpan> hehe
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  329. # [10:15] <Ms2ger> Dammit
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  339. # [10:48] <yoav> zcorpan: The plot thickens...
  340. # [10:54] <zcorpan> yoav: btw downloading immediately in the script case is wrong per spec already even without <picture>, since there's crossorigin and srcset. the spec requires to await a stable state
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  342. # [10:55] <yoav> zcorpan: HTMLImageElement can tell if it *already* contains such attributes when 'src' is encountered
  343. # [10:55] <yoav> It cannot tell what it parent is
  344. # [10:56] <yoav> I don't know how "stable state" is defined
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  348. # [10:57] <zcorpan> yoav: it basically means to let the script finish
  349. # [10:57] <yoav> OK
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  351. # [10:57] <zcorpan> yoav: so that it doesn't matter in which order you set src and crossorigin in a script
  352. # [10:58] <yoav> I think that in practice it does...
  353. # [10:58] <zcorpan> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/embedded-content-1.html#update-the-image-data step 8
  354. # [10:58] <zcorpan> if it does it's a bug
  355. # [10:58] <yoav> Interesting
  356. # [10:58] <yoav> Can you comment that on the blink-dev discussion?
  357. # [10:59] <zcorpan> sure
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  359. # [10:59] <yoav> Practically, it means that an HTML parser script just has to add the image to its parent before terminating
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  361. # [11:02] <zcorpan> the spec says to await a stable state for the html parser case too, which means to wait until the parser yeilds to the event loop, however that's not technically necessary i think since the html parser sets all attributes at the same time as creating the element (this might not match impl reality though)
  362. # [11:03] <yoav> zcorpan: Yeah, current parser (at least Blink/WebKit) sets all the attributes upon creation
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  372. # [11:34] <hsivonen> annevk-cloud: FYI: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.l10n/PH7tF9m8vUY (encouraging a UTF-8 default for outgoing email)
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  374. # [11:43] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: about Client Hints, was wondering why you were asking earlier if howcome had an opinion on it. You think he'd not be favorable?
  375. # [11:43] <Ms2ger> CH CH
  376. # [11:44] <Ms2ger> Client Hints Considered Harmful
  377. # [11:51] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: When I read about CSS Regions Considered Harmful, some of the arguments seemed applicable to Client Hints.
  378. # [11:52] <MikeSmith> ah ok
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  383. # [11:57] <zcorpan> hsivonen: which arguments? problem #2 ?
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  388. # [12:06] <hsivonen> zcorpan: yes
  389. # [12:09] <zcorpan> from what i understand, CH doesn't intend to solve art direction but leaves that to <picture>. however if the user zooms it seems reasonable that the browser should reload the image, dunno what the I-D says about that
  390. # [12:10] <hsivonen> zcorpan: and if you use CH on HTML resources, does it mean a reasonable browser becomes Netscape 4.x when resizing the window (includes rotation on mobile)?
  391. # [12:12] <zcorpan> does CH apply to any resource? i was under the impression it was only for <img> requests (though i haven't read the spec)
  392. # [12:12] <hsivonen> when I argued it was about images, karl said it's not just about images
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  394. # [12:12] <hsivonen> I don't recall anything in the spec restricting it to images
  395. # [12:12] <zcorpan> hsivonen: the DPR doesn't change when you resize the window though
  396. # [12:12] <hsivonen> also, sicking argued for a non-image case
  397. # [12:13] <hsivonen> zcorpan: width does
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  405. # [12:39] <zcorpan> hsivonen: how?
  406. # [12:43] <hsivonen> zcorpan: resizing the window changes the width of the view port
  407. # [12:43] <zcorpan> hsivonen: the width of the viewport doesn't affect DPR
  408. # [12:44] <hsivonen> zcorpan: DPR isn't the only kind of client hint
  409. # [12:44] <hsivonen> zcorpan: there's another one for width
  410. # [12:44] <zcorpan> ah, ok
  411. # [12:44] <hsivonen> zcorpan: though the spec isn't really clear on the width of what exactly
  412. # [12:45] <hsivonen> see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=935216#c20
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  414. # [12:47] <zcorpan> the width hint seems like a bad idea to me
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  416. # [12:49] <hsivonen> zcorpan: both client hints seem like bad ideas to me
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  467. # Session Close: Fri Jan 31 14:46:12 2014
  468. #
  469. # Session Start: Fri Jan 31 14:46:12 2014
  470. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  474. # [14:52] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ & http://logbot.glob.com.au/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  475. # [14:52] * Set by smaug____!~chatzilla@GGZYYCCCXVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi on Wed Mar 21 17:14:24
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  480. # [15:00] <zcorpan> jgraham: why doesn't test(function(t) { }) have the test object as the argument (t is undefined)?
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  492. # [15:14] <jgraham> zcorpan: I don't think there's any particular reason.
  493. # [15:15] <jgraham> It's not really clear what the use case is, I guess
  494. # [15:15] <zcorpan> t.add_cleanup
  495. # [15:15] <jgraham> Oh, yeah so I guess with that there is a use case
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  497. # [15:17] <jgraham> zcorpan: Want to make a patch? You just need to change the call to test_obj.step() in function test(){} to look like the one in function async_test(){}
  498. # [15:17] <jgraham> i.e. add tet_obj, test_obj as arrguments
  499. # [15:17] <zcorpan> yeah sure, but will have to wait until monday
  500. # [15:17] <jgraham> although I am slightly worried that will make the this object different
  501. # [15:18] <jgraham> Dunno if undefined, this_obj would be a better bet
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  504. # [15:20] <zcorpan> is that a problem for async_test? what is this_obj here?
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  506. # [15:21] <zcorpan> isn't test_obj the this object for both test and async_test now?
  507. # [15:21] <jgraham> I think in test() it's the global
  508. # [15:22] <jgraham> Oh, no
  509. # [15:22] <jgraham> the code is just strange
  510. # [15:23] <jgraham> OK, patch should be quite sae then
  511. # [15:23] <jgraham> *dafe
  512. # [15:23] <jgraham> *safe
  513. # [15:23] <jgraham> Christ
  514. # [15:24] <zcorpan> why does async_test run step with three arguments? the function only takes two arguments?
  515. # [15:25] <zcorpan> oh wait
  516. # [15:25] <zcorpan> nm
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  518. # [15:26] <zcorpan> yeah so it's just adding ", test_obj, test_obj"
  519. # [15:26] <jgraham> Yeah, the first argument is the callback, the second is the this to use and any remaining arguments are the parameters to pass to the callback
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  550. # [16:17] <mathiasbynens> https://twitter.com/RobbertAtWork/status/429271270052872193 — “<svg> elements in <template> won't work: they're parsed in the HTML namespace. We're gonna need XML to do this template thing properly.”
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  553. # [16:25] <MikeSmith> oh boy
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  556. # [16:28] <MikeSmith> well that seems intead like a very good argument for us to change to parsing all SVG using the HTML parser instead of the XML parser
  557. # [16:28] <stockwell> I'd like to help by writing some test cases. What's the process for doing that?
  558. # [16:29] <MikeSmith> stockwell: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/blob/master/README.md#contributing
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  560. # [16:29] <stockwell> <MikeSmith> thank you
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  566. # [16:33] <gsnedders> Is there any ETA for ES6 being basically done?
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  580. # [17:05] <Domenic_> gsnedders: http://esdiscuss.org/topic/es6-timetable-and-current-status
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  582. # [17:07] <gsnedders> Domenic_: Braw.
  583. # [17:08] * gsnedders remembers this is #whatwg and en-gb is probably better than sco.
  584. # [17:09] <gsnedders> so, uh, thanks.
  585. # [17:10] <Domenic_> np :P
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  587. # [17:19] <MikeSmith> Domenic_: so what was the recent big change to Promises? the .cast -> .resolve change?
  588. # [17:19] <Domenic_> MikeSmith: yeah. "big" was overstating it from an API perspective
  589. # [17:19] <MikeSmith> ah OK
  590. # [17:19] <Domenic_> it is kind of big behind the scenes because some planned ES7 changes that some people wanted were decided against.
  591. # [17:20] <MikeSmith> oh
  592. # [17:20] <Domenic_> which allows simplification of the internal model
  593. # [17:20] <Domenic_> (fairly drastic simplication)
  594. # [17:20] <MikeSmith> aha
  595. # [17:20] <Domenic_> but from an actual consumer POV the only change is that .cast becomes .resolve and resolve dies
  596. # [17:21] <MikeSmith> well the behind-the-scenes change sounds like a very good thing
  597. # [17:21] <MikeSmith> because simpler usually being better
  598. # [17:21] <MikeSmith> and drastically simpler especially so
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  608. # [17:28] <Domenic_> indeed, i am quite happy
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  610. # [17:30] <MikeSmith> cool
  611. # [17:31] <MikeSmith> jgraham: somebody should come up with a way we can track data about test cases that have resulted in spec bugs being found
  612. # [17:32] <MikeSmith> (in context of https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/showcomment?chain=1646 -- see the last comment from Ms2ger)
  613. # [17:32] <MikeSmith> (and bug https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24404)
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  615. # [17:34] <jgraham> MikeSmith: Yeah. We should track many things that we can't / don't
  616. # [17:34] <MikeSmith> yeah I know
  617. # [17:35] <jgraham> But I agree that makes the list
  618. # [17:35] <MikeSmith> that's why I was suggesting assigning it to the "somebody", who seems to have infinite time
  619. # [17:35] <jgraham> :)
  620. # [17:35] <MikeSmith> yay
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  654. # [18:29] <reyre> foolip: ping
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  667. # [18:43] <annevk> Man, for a moment I thought the microtask discussion was over
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  678. # [18:53] <annevk> I wish I could answer the range question without doing a bunch of research
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  680. # [18:54] <Hixie> hsivonen: you around?
  681. # [18:54] <Hixie> hsivonen: haven't heard your opinion of the UI proposals in my registry e-mail, would love to have your feedback
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  691. # [19:06] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
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  701. # Session Close: Fri Jan 31 19:13:17 2014
  702. #
  703. # Session Start: Fri Jan 31 19:13:17 2014
  704. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  705. # [19:13] * Disconnected
  706. # [19:18] * Attempting to rejoin channel #whatwg
  707. # [19:18] * Rejoined channel #whatwg
  708. # [19:18] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ & http://logbot.glob.com.au/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  709. # [19:18] * Set by smaug____!~chatzilla@GGZYYCCCXVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi on Wed Mar 21 17:14:24
  710. # [19:19] <Hixie> why do dictionaries have constructors?
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  714. # [19:34] <MikeSmith> Hixie: I'd also like to hear what hsivonen is thinking on that
  715. # [19:34] <MikeSmith> in the mean time I will try to write up a reply myself this weekend
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  718. # [19:35] <annevk-cloud> Hixie: they do? Sounds weird, although they can be returned they do not have exposed names
  719. # [19:36] <Hixie> if they have a constructor the name is exposed
  720. # [19:36] <Domenic_> are there examples of ones with constructors? seems bad
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  723. # [19:37] <Hixie> well i assume there was some use case...
  724. # [19:37] <Hixie> i'm just curious what it was
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  776. # [20:44] <MikeSmith> somebody recommended a good IRC client for OSX here the other day
  777. # [20:44] * weinig_ is now known as weinig
  778. # [20:44] <MikeSmith> a newer one, not Colloquy
  779. # [20:44] <MikeSmith> I didn't pay attention at the time because I didn't care because I just irssi and screen
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  781. # [20:45] <MikeSmith> but now I'm trying to help somebody get set up with IRC so now I care, so maybe can somebody remind me what the name was?
  782. # [20:46] <MikeSmith> Textual?
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  796. # [21:05] <Ms2ger> Hixie, I thought the constructors for dictionaries was for points or something, but http://dev.w3.org/fxtf/geometry/ has those as interfaces
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  836. # [21:56] <sicking> Hixie: shouldn't BroadcastChannel inherit EventTarget?
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  851. # [22:26] <Hixie> sicking: sounds plausible
  852. # [22:26] <sicking> Hixie: event dispatch won't work otherwise
  853. # [22:26] <Hixie> sicking: fixed, reload in a minute or so
  854. # [22:26] <sicking> thanks
  855. # [22:27] <Hixie> np, thanks for catching it
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  865. # [22:43] <annevk> MikeSmith: LimeChat is nice
  866. # [22:44] <MikeSmith> annevk: OK thanks
  867. # [22:44] <MikeSmith> I think Textual is based on LimeChat originally
  868. # [22:44] <Domenic_> still a big fan of irccloud
  869. # [22:45] * jgraham doesn't understand why you would move off irssi
  870. # [22:46] <jgraham> Oh,for someone else
  871. # [22:46] <jgraham> Fair enough
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  874. # [22:48] <Hixie> i'm likely to work on the web focus model refactoring soon so if people have comments on my proposal, now's the time https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23475
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  904. # Session Close: Sat Feb 01 00:00:00 2014

The end :)