/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-02-06 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Feb 06 00:00:01 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  7. # [00:04] <jgraham> bholley: Did you mean your push to web-platform-tests to be a pull request? Because you didn't create one
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  9. # [00:05] <bholley> jgraham: no, I'm waiting until we sort out the spec
  10. # [00:05] <bholley> jgraham: I wasn't sure about the branch naming convention - did I make it look like I wanted it to be a PR?
  11. # [00:06] <jgraham> bholley: I think you put submissions/ in the name, which kind of suggests a PR
  12. # [00:06] <bholley> jgraham: yeah, ok. I was just quickly following the instructions for adding tests
  13. # [00:06] <bholley> but makes sense
  14. # [00:07] <jgraham> BTW since we are using critic for review it is better to create a PR early and add an issue stating that you are waiting for spec feedback
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  16. # [00:07] <jgraham> You don't need a mozilla-style complete patch before submitting for review
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  19. # [00:08] <jgraham> (that doesn't mean *right now* is best of course, just that push early, push often is a good rule)
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  22. # [00:12] <bholley> ok, I'll look into that after the initial round of feedback
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  34. # [00:41] <zewt> things pages should not be able to do: prevent pasting text into forms.
  35. # [00:42] <TabAtkins> Hostile password entry?
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  37. # [00:42] <zewt> pages that want to coerce you into typing your email address or password or whatever twice
  38. # [00:43] <Hixie> i always just bring up the dom inspector and nuke the relevant attributes
  39. # [00:44] <TabAtkins> Yeah, me too.
  40. # [00:44] <zewt> my normal (non-development) browser is firefox, and its inspector is too cumbersome to bother with
  41. # [00:45] <TabAtkins> I have a solution to that.
  42. # [00:45] <zewt> the main reason I don't switch to chrome for general usage is lack of vertical tabs
  43. # [00:45] <TabAtkins> Ah, kk.
  44. # [00:45] <TabAtkins> Yeah, you're screwed then.
  45. # [00:46] <zewt> which I really, seriously don't understand--horizontal tabs are pretty unusable
  46. # [00:46] <TabAtkins> If you use a lot of tabs.
  47. # [00:46] <zewt> if you have a list of horizontal things, you stack them vertically
  48. # [00:46] <TabAtkins> Switch to only using a few.
  49. # [00:47] <zewt> i'm not going to reengineer how I use browsers to suit chrome's crippled ui, heh
  50. # [00:47] <TabAtkins> LifeHacks®
  51. # [00:48] <JosephSilber> When a parent
  52. # [00:48] <JosephSilber> When a parent's height depends on it's children, you can't use percentage heights for the children.
  53. # [00:49] <TabAtkins> Yes.
  54. # [00:49] <zewt> i tend to switch to chrome when doing a search, because switching browsers is faster than using firefox's dog-slow address bar search, heh
  55. # [00:49] <JosephSilber> What if the parent's height isn't fixed, but it doesn't depend on its children.
  56. # [00:49] <TabAtkins> Example?
  57. # [00:49] <JosephSilber> an absolutely positioned parent
  58. # [00:49] <JosephSilber> all corners set to 0
  59. # [00:50] <Hixie> wtf is a vertical tab in this context?
  60. # [00:50] <zewt> browser tab bar with tabs vertical, not horizontal
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  62. # [00:51] <TabAtkins> JosephSilber: Then it's fixed for those purposes.
  63. # [00:51] <TabAtkins> The relevant term is "definite" versus "indefinite": http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-sizing/#definite
  64. # [00:52] <TabAtkins> Percentage width/heights can resolve against definite parent width/heights.
  65. # [00:53] <TabAtkins> In terms of abspos, though, if you set top and bottom, then height is *implicitly* set as well. Same with left/right/width - setting any two to a definite value implicitly sets the third to a definite value as well.
  66. # [00:53] <JosephSilber> TabAtkins: see this? stretches in ff, but not in chrome: http://codepen.io/anon/pen/qItFp
  67. # [00:54] <TabAtkins> JosephSilber: Is this related to what we were just discussing?
  68. # [00:55] <TabAtkins> I see an abspos, but no percentages on its children.
  69. # [00:55] <JosephSilber> TabAtkins: It is. I've solved it for my project using min-height. This is just me trying to understand what's supposed to happen according to the spec
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  71. # [00:55] <JosephSilber> .box has a min-height: 100%
  72. # [00:56] <TabAtkins> This case is too busy for me to figure out. It needs to be reduced pretty badly.
  73. # [00:56] <JosephSilber> ...I meant that I solved it with min-content...
  74. # [00:56] <JosephSilber> ok. I'll try stripping stuff out and report back
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  77. # [00:59] <zewt> (https://zewt.org/~glenn/tabs.png <- that)
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  79. # [01:00] <zewt> (usually with 30-40 tabs, of course, not 9)
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  86. # [01:02] <JosephSilber> TabAtkins: ok. so I got it down to this: http://codepen.io/anon/pen/qItFp
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  90. # [01:05] <JosephSilber> ff respects the percentage height, while chrome does not
  91. # [01:07] <TabAtkins> Ah, this is due to a disagreement over whether "stretched" things are definite or not when the container is definite in the cross axis.
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  96. # [01:11] <zewt> (oh yeah, the other big killer for chrome, the broken address bar autocompletion)
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  98. # [01:12] <TabAtkins> JosephSilber: Firefox is correct - this was updated in the spec a while ago, and WK/Blink havent' updated yet: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-flexbox/#algo-stretch
  99. # [01:15] <JosephSilber> Is min-content considered a definite size?
  100. # [01:16] <TabAtkins> Nope.
  101. # [01:16] <TabAtkins> Just read the definition: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-sizing/#definite
  102. # [01:17] <JosephSilber> I thought so, but then why does it work? I guess it's considered an intrinsic height, but not a definite.
  103. # [01:17] <TabAtkins> I don't understand the question. Why does what work?
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  108. # [01:32] <Hixie> zewt: oh ok
  109. # [01:32] <Hixie> zewt: weird
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  112. # [01:33] <zewt> i guess
  113. # [01:34] <zewt> works well for me anyway :)
  114. # [01:36] <Hixie> i run out of room for my tabs going horizontally, nevermind vertically :-)
  115. # [01:43] <zewt> well the whole point is i can fit several times as many tabs vertically than horizontally
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  250. # [06:57] <Domenic_> I want to start a conversation about adding GZIP and/or .zip file APIs to the web platform. What mailing list would people recommend? I'm thinking public-webapps?
  251. # [06:58] <Domenic_> Or whatwg@whatwg, perhaps.
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  258. # [07:12] <hendry> Domenic_: talk to marcosc about zip files :-)
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  264. # [07:20] <Hixie> Domenic_: anne was working on a zip: scheme or something for a bit
  265. # [07:24] <Domenic_> Hixie: yeah, but from what I remember he gave up on it.
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  291. # [08:23] <zcorpan> Hixie: that svg paragraph, iirc it was added after people asking whether <svg xmlns:lol="wat"><lol:metadata such="wow"/> was valid in html
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  365. # [12:07] <zcorpan> jgraham: Ms2ger: what do i need to do to run http://web-platform.test:8000/html/dom/interfaces.html ?
  366. # [12:07] <Ms2ger> Oh, right
  367. # [12:07] <Ms2ger> git submodules are broken
  368. # [12:07] <Ms2ger> Go into wpt/resources and git submodule update, or something
  369. # [12:10] <jgraham> Yeah, in theory git submodule update --recursive should work
  370. # [12:10] <jgraham> But it doesn't seem to for some reason
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  372. # [12:14] <MikeSmith> I don't have a problem getting wpt/resources to update
  373. # [12:15] <MikeSmith> it updates fine for me with git submodule update --recursive
  374. # [12:15] <MikeSmith> the problem I run into is for wpt/tools
  375. # [12:16] <MikeSmith> which I deal with by doing "mv ./tools tools-old; git submodule init; git submodule update"
  376. # [12:16] <MikeSmith> or something like that
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  378. # [12:18] <MikeSmith> hmm or at least dirtiness for wpt/resources goes away after submodule update --recursive
  379. # [12:18] <MikeSmith> but I guess that doesn't mean it's necessarily pulling the latest from the resources repo
  380. # [12:19] <MikeSmith> question mark
  381. # [12:21] <jgraham> MikeSmith: It's resources/idlharness that's the problem (that might not be the right name)
  382. # [12:21] <MikeSmith> ah ok
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  385. # [12:22] * MikeSmith shuts up and tries pulling to see what happens
  386. # [12:23] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, if you just follow the readme, you get an empty wpt/resources/webidl2
  387. # [12:24] <MikeSmith> oh, initially you mean?
  388. # [12:24] <MikeSmith> the very first time?
  389. # [12:25] <MikeSmith> so yeah I guess I remember having needed to do that
  390. # [12:25] <zcorpan> well... http://web-platform.test:8000/resources/WebIDLParser.js is still 404 for me
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  392. # [12:25] <webben> I'm looking for prior art on how an application (a server in my case) should handle query strings like http://example.com?%atfoobar
  393. # [12:25] <Ms2ger> zcorpan, is webidl2 non-empty?
  394. # [12:25] <webben> note the "t" which makes %at not represent a percent-encoded code point
  395. # [12:26] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: it's empty
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  397. # [12:26] <webben> as far as i can tell the url parsing algo at https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/url/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#parsing just would return me "http://example.com?%atfoobar" again
  398. # [12:27] <Ms2ger> Don't look at that
  399. # [12:27] <Ms2ger> The spec is at url.spec.whatwg.org
  400. # [12:27] <webben> I'm wondering if it's "correct" ("safe"?) error handling to treat such it equivalently to http://example.com?%25atfoobar
  401. # [12:28] <webben> Ms2ger: oooh. ty
  402. # [12:28] <Ms2ger> zcorpan, okay, I don't remember what the incantation is to get it updated
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  405. # [12:29] <webben> hmm
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  407. # [12:30] <MikeSmith> yeah I just tried a fresh resources/ submodule update from there and I get an empty webidl2 dir
  408. # [12:30] <webben> so looking at that, it's the same result, "http://example.com?%atfoobar", except it's a non-fatal parse error
  409. # [12:31] <MikeSmith> if I cd into resources/ and do git pull it fails because it's a detached branch
  410. # [12:31] <webben> so I guess from the perspective of a server it's not unreasonable to correct to http://example.com?%25atfoobar (?)
  411. # [12:32] <webben> oh actually
  412. # [12:32] <webben> maybe that's what the spec is saying to do
  413. # [12:33] <webben> mmm ... ok only in the case of the fragment not the query
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  415. # [12:34] <zcorpan> webben: what do you mean from the perspective of a server? what are you trying to do?
  416. # [12:36] <webben> Third-parties are generating query strings like ?a=quux&foo=bar&somethingelse=%atfoobar to my server. I'd like to capture these URLs, pull out data from the query strings, and generally process the request.
  417. # [12:37] <webben> My server happens to be delegating parsing the query string to some Jetty code, which emits from its depths an InvalidArgumentException when it tries to percent-decode %at
  418. # [12:37] <webben> I'm just wondering what the least incorrect error handling could be
  419. # [12:37] <webben> (and whether jetty's behavior could be improved for that matter)
  420. # [12:38] <webben> (this deep exception is thrown from a call like httpRequest.getRequestParams() )
  421. # [12:38] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: it appears you have to cd to resources/ and then do a git init && git submodule update within there too and then the webidl2 directory will get populated. I don't know if that's that only way or the right way, but it does actually work at least. (And so I guess the --recursive flag to git submodule udpate doesn't really mean what it claims to mean)a
  422. # [12:39] <webben> so I'm wondering whether, for example, we should try to "correct" the url to http://example.com?a=quux&foo=bar&somethingelse=%25atfoobar before delegating to jetty
  423. # [12:41] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: not git submodule init ?
  424. # [12:41] <webben> zcorpan: Does this make any sense as a problem statement, at least?
  425. # [12:41] <zcorpan> webben: yes
  426. # [12:42] <zcorpan> webben: so either jetty could implement the url spec and not throw an exception
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  428. # [12:42] <zcorpan> webben: or you could regexp fixup the url before handing it to jetty
  429. # [12:44] <webben> i wonder if jetty behavior were to change, how they should best signal a parse error without throwing an exception.
  430. # [12:44] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: yeah sorry I meant git submodule init (I should have just pasted it instead of retyping)
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  433. # [12:53] <jgraham> MikeSmith: If the readme is wrong, maybe you could fix it?
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  441. # [13:05] <zcorpan> ok now the tests run
  442. # [13:05] <zcorpan> i failed to recover from git init though
  443. # [13:06] <jgraham> Shouldn
  444. # [13:07] <jgraham> 't git init on an existing repo be a noop
  445. # [13:07] <jgraham> ?
  446. # [13:07] <jgraham> I guess it might not interact well with submodules, but if so that seems like a bug
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  449. # [13:10] <zcorpan> it wasn't a noop for me when i ran it in resources/
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  456. # [13:25] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: sorry :(
  457. # [13:25] <MikeSmith> jgraham: yeah I will update the readme
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  526. # [16:29] <Ms2ger> Are he blink UseCounter results public?
  527. # [16:30] <Ms2ger> *the
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  532. # [16:57] <mathiasbynens> Ms2ger: there’s http://www.chromestatus.com/metrics/css/animated but other than that, I don’t think so
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  534. # [16:58] <mathiasbynens> i meant http://www.chromestatus.com/metrics/css/popularity
  535. # [16:58] <Ms2ger> I found some 0% claims in another thread, which made me happy :)
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  539. # [17:06] <SimonSapin> annevk-cloud, hsivonen: Do you agree that CSS’s "environment encoding" is a legacy thing and we don’t want new formats or linking mechanisms to define it?
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  549. # [17:37] <gsnedders> SimonSapin: Do we not just want it to be UTF-8 in any new case?
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  551. # [17:37] <SimonSapin> gsnedders: That’s the idea. If not provided, the next fallback is UTF-8
  552. # [17:38] <gsnedders> SimonSapin: Well surely it doesn't matter if they define it or not, given the environment encoding will be UTF-8 :)
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  554. # [17:38] <SimonSapin> Well :)
  555. # [17:38] <SimonSapin> This includes not having a charset attribute, for example
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  572. # [18:10] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
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  578. # [18:18] <Ms2ger> My dear dglazkov!
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  617. # [19:52] <jgraham> MikeSmith: So git submodule update --init --recursive does what you might think that git submodule update --recursive would do
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  621. # [20:00] <Hixie> foolip: wtf is MSE?
  622. # [20:01] <jgraham> Hixie: Media Source Extensions
  623. # [20:02] <Ms2ger> Is that ROT13(DRM)?
  624. # [20:03] <Hixie> what are those?
  625. # [20:03] <jgraham> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/media-source/media-source.html
  626. # [20:03] <jgraham> No, this is for adaptive streaming using javascript
  627. # [20:04] <Hixie> (aw, another non-rfc-2119 spec)
  628. # [20:04] <Hixie> looks like a cool idea, i guess
  629. # [20:04] <Hixie> though seems like more effort than just having the browsers do it
  630. # [20:04] <Hixie> but ok
  631. # [20:05] <Hixie> any idea why they try to change TextTrack?
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  635. # [20:15] <annevk> Hixie: to add SourceBuffer?
  636. # [20:15] <annevk> but I guess you could tell as much
  637. # [20:15] * annevk goes back to doing useful stuff
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  643. # [20:31] <Hixie> annevk: i mean, why do they make kind and language mutable
  644. # [20:32] <Hixie> falken: did the patch on https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20418 fix all our problems?
  645. # [20:33] <Ms2ger> Hixie, fyi, updates in https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22118
  646. # [20:33] <Hixie> thanks
  647. # [20:34] <Ms2ger> Also, we might be able to drop document.all()
  648. # [20:34] <Hixie> yeah i saw that
  649. # [20:34] <Hixie> that's great!
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  652. # [20:38] <Hixie> Ms2ger: more comments in that bug :-)
  653. # [20:39] <Ms2ger> \o/
  654. # [20:39] <Hixie> anyone want to make a call on https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24312 regarding what exactly i should spec?
  655. # [20:39] <Hixie> (<img> reloading when adopting)
  656. # [20:39] <Ms2ger> Aaaand I'm out :)
  657. # [20:40] <annevk> Hixie: hmm weird, I suppose language can change over time, dunno about kind
  658. # [20:40] <Hixie> languages of subtitles changing over time seems wildly crazy to me
  659. # [20:41] <Hixie> i'll be back later. gonna go get food.
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  662. # [20:53] <annevk> SimonSapin: new formats or linking mechanisms should enforce utf-8 for themselves and subresources
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  666. # [20:55] <SimonSapin> annevk: that’s different still. But I guess they can always do UTF-8 decoding themselves and parse the result like they would <style>
  667. # [20:55] <annevk> SimonSapin: yeah, you want some kind of override flag like the HTML parser has
  668. # [20:55] <annevk> SimonSapin: for these contexts
  669. # [20:57] <SimonSapin> annevk: I mean, parsing from code points is an existing hook, so CSS Syntax does not need to add a "UTF-8 only" hook for parsing from bytes
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  677. # [21:17] <Hixie> annevk: does https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19505 look right? (the final proposal)
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  696. # [21:31] <annevk> Hixie: yeah I think so
  697. # [21:32] <annevk> SimonSapin: you don't really want to have to decode / parse in some other spec when all you need is parse
  698. # [21:32] <annevk> SimonSapin: especially since it might lead implementers astray from doing the right thing
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  701. # [21:36] <Hixie> annevk-cloud: k, i'm putting it in
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  753. # [22:58] <aleray> hi, how can I prettyprint with html5lib python? I'm using lxml but this code does not output pretty html: http://dpaste.com/1589423/
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  756. # [22:58] <aleray> not sure if I should serialize using lxml or if I should rather use the html5lib serializer
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  789. # [23:31] <TabAtkins> I'd like an answer to that, too - I haven't investigated pretty-printing yet, but Bikeshed's output is *really* ugly. ^_^
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The end :)