/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-02-24 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Feb 24 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  175. # [08:45] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: http://validator.nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fexample.com%2F validates dispite having two encoding decls
  176. # [08:46] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: yeah I haven't implemented a check for that case yet
  177. # [08:47] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: and now millions of people will copy-paste from example.com and then get angry when you do implement that check :-P
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  179. # [08:49] <MikeSmith> heh
  180. # [08:49] <MikeSmith> yup
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  185. # [08:54] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: can you have a look at https://github.com/ResponsiveImagesCG/picture-element/pull/109 please?
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  221. # [09:55] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: do you know if lxml is installed on html5.org?
  222. # [09:56] <MikeSmith> Hixie doesn't seem to have it on whatwg.org and I don't want to try to figure out how to do the same thing in perl
  223. # [09:58] <MikeSmith> hmm no lxml on html5.org either
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  234. # [10:14] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: why do you need lxml?
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  240. # [10:26] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: I don't necessarily need lxml I guess
  241. # [10:26] <MikeSmith> if there's some other relaTively easy way
  242. # [10:26] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: what are you trying to do?
  243. # [10:27] <MikeSmith> get the text contents of the first cell in each row of a table
  244. # [10:29] <zcorpan> from an arbitrary URL?
  245. # [10:29] <MikeSmith> the MetaExtensions page from the wiki
  246. # [10:30] <MikeSmith> just want to grab only the registered names
  247. # [10:33] <MikeSmith> I guess I could just use whatever stock DOM API there is in python
  248. # [10:34] <MikeSmith> and whatever html parser
  249. # [10:35] <zcorpan> don't wikis have APIs to read the data so you don't have to scrape the HTML?
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  251. # [10:38] <MikeSmith> mediawiki doesn't seem to
  252. # [10:38] <MikeSmith> at least not that I could find
  253. # [10:39] <zcorpan> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Main_page
  254. # [10:39] <MikeSmith> wish it did. would save me the trouble
  255. # [10:39] <MikeSmith> yeah that doesn't have what I need
  256. # [10:40] <MikeSmith> as far as I can tell
  257. # [10:40] <MikeSmith> plus we are running an old version of mediawiki
  258. # [10:40] <MikeSmith> I think
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  260. # [10:42] <MikeSmith> as far as I could find, all that API lets me do it's grab the raw wikitext as one big chunk
  261. # [10:42] <MikeSmith> but would be very happy to find out I'm missing something in the docs
  262. # [10:44] <zcorpan> yeah ok, i can see that it doesn't help you much
  263. # [10:46] <MikeSmith> yeah I asked Aryeh about it couple years back and he said even the latest API didn't provide anything
  264. # [10:46] <MikeSmith> anyway I'll mess around with or more later
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  266. # [10:47] <MikeSmith> I'm on a plane to San Francisco that's about to depart
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  268. # [10:48] <Ms2ger> Don't fall down
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  271. # [10:52] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: write a regex
  272. # [10:52] <MikeSmith> heh
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  281. # [11:37] <darobin> MikeSmith: if you can get at the raw wiki text, then there's a bunch of parsers for that which you could use
  282. # [11:37] <darobin> given how many there are you'd hope at least one is passable
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  346. # [12:17] <jgraham> MikeSmith: Why does it have to run on html5.org?
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  348. # [12:17] <jgraham> But you could certainly use html5lib + ElementTree or something
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  368. # [13:25] <JakeA> Anyone got a clue on how es imports (the declarative kind) may work in the browser?
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  469. # [16:23] <Domenic_> JakeA: I believe the plan of record is something like <script type="module" src="main-module.js"></script>, where main-module.js uses standard ES import syntax.
  470. # [16:23] <Domenic_> JakeA: this would be sugar for <script>System.import("main-module.js");</script>
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  474. # [16:26] <JakeA> Domenic_: Ahh ok, what would <script>import foo from "foo";</script> do?
  475. # [16:26] <JakeA> Would it block?
  476. # [16:26] <Domenic_> JakeA: be a syntax error; scripts cannot use syntax only available in modules.
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  479. # [16:31] <JakeA> Domenic_: Ahh, I didn't know import was module-only.
  480. # [16:34] <JakeA> Domenic_: Did the idea of module bundling get beyond the idea of zip urls?
  481. # [16:34] <Domenic_> JakeA: not really, although Dave is still interested in working on that. There's also manual bundling with System.define('path-to-module', 'source-code-of-module') I believe.
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  485. # [16:43] <JakeA> Domenic_: Interesting. What's the scope of System.define? If <script type="module" src="main-module.js"></script> defines a load of modules, are they available to System.imports elsewhere in the page?
  486. # [16:44] <Domenic_> JakeA: I think so, although since modules are loaded async you'd have a bad time waiting for module-load before trying to use System.import
  487. # [16:44] <JakeA> Domenic_: Exactly what I was thinking
  488. # [16:45] <Domenic_> you shouldn't be using System.define in modules, really. It's meant for scripts
  489. # [16:45] <JakeA> <script src="my-modules.js" async></script> ... <script>System.import('comments').then(initComments)</script>
  490. # [16:46] <JakeA> ...will be async faily
  491. # [16:46] <Domenic_> yeah, just like anything that relies of <script async> + <script> executing in order
  492. # [16:46] <JakeA> Right
  493. # [16:46] <Domenic_> just use <script> + <script>
  494. # [16:46] <JakeA> Which blocks :(
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  496. # [16:47] <Domenic_> i think you understand this stuff much more than i, but why does that block any more than <script async> + <script>? In both cases you have a blocking <script>.
  497. # [16:47] <JakeA> <script> blocks any further rendering because of the potential of document.write
  498. # [16:48] <JakeA> whereas async doesn't. But async throws out any control of execution order
  499. # [16:48] <Domenic_> sure. but <script async> + <script> still blocks, right? Since <script> blocks.
  500. # [16:49] <JakeA> The 2nd script doesn't wait for the async script
  501. # [16:49] <Domenic_> sure, but i thought you were worried about blocking...
  502. # [16:50] * WolfieZero|Away is now known as WolfieZero
  503. # [16:50] <JakeA> If script B depends on script A, both scripts must load in a blocking way, right?
  504. # [16:51] <Domenic_> I dunno, I vaguely remember there being some HTML attribute that preserved order but didn't block?
  505. # [16:51] <Domenic_> Or you could just concat the two and use <script async> for the result
  506. # [16:51] <JakeA> defer will execute in doc order, but it waits until domready and is broken in IE<10
  507. # [16:52] <Domenic_> (That is how most bundlers, RequireJS, browserify etc. work already---your bundle contains module definitions + main module code.)
  508. # [16:52] <JakeA> Right, having to combine isn't great in a spdy/http2 world
  509. # [16:52] <Domenic_> well then why are we talking about bundles anyway
  510. # [16:52] <Domenic_> just use modules straight-up
  511. # [16:52] <JakeA> And if you have scripts A, B, C, D etc, where B onwards depend on A, but no interdependency, you're slowing down enhancements
  512. # [16:53] <JakeA> Bundling was a separate question
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  514. # [16:54] <Domenic_> but you were asking about load order in the context of a bundle ("my-modules.js"), so I got confused.
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  516. # [16:54] <Domenic_> if you are not bundling, ordering is solved by the module loader system
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  518. # [16:55] <JakeA> Makes sense, so <script type="module" src="main-module.js"></script> becomes a way to flatten the dependency tree?
  519. # [16:56] <JakeA> As in, have as many script[type=module]s as you need, so the preparser catches them?
  520. # [16:59] <Ms2ger> Boo, script type
  521. # [16:59] * rektide_ is now known as rektide
  522. # [17:00] <Domenic_> Ms2ger: I know, unfortunately it's the only parser-compatible solution it seems.
  523. # [17:00] <Domenic_> JakeA: I guess? I thought in HTTP2 the server would just push all files in the graph the moment you required main-module.js
  524. # [17:01] <Ms2ger> Unrelatedly
  525. # [17:01] <Ms2ger> zcorpan++
  526. # [17:03] <JakeA> Domenic_: unless main-module's requirements had crossover with others that you may have encountered on other pages
  527. # [17:03] <JakeA> Domenic_: may end up downloading stuff you already have
  528. # [17:03] <Domenic_> JakeA: I thought http2 would try pushing those and then be told it's not necessary
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  532. # [17:04] <JakeA> Domenic_: hmm, possibly, I'm unclear on that
  533. # [17:04] <Domenic_> JakeA: RST_STREAM from http://www.mnot.net/blog/2014/01/30/http2_expectations
  534. # [17:05] <JakeA> Domenic_: Ahh that's good, I hadn't seen that feature before
  535. # [17:05] <JakeA> Ok, that all makes sense. We went around a bit last year on the idea of <script requires=".other-script-and-link-elements">, but think modules covers most of it
  536. # [17:06] <Domenic_> yeah, i think it should work pretty nicely :)
  537. # [17:06] <JakeA> Cheers!
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  558. # [17:37] <aleray> Hi, I'm trying to write a small function to wrap implicit section of an html document into section tags. Here is the input and output: http://dpaste.com/1653856/
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  560. # [17:37] <aleray> I'm trying to do so with lxml.etree
  561. # [17:37] <aleray> any idea?
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  771. # [18:44] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
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  808. # [19:34] <cwilso___> Wow, no replies. Good morning, dglazkov!
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  811. # [19:39] <Hixie> a cwilso!
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  837. # [20:15] <gsnedders> Hixie, TabAtkins: can I get a rucksack shipped to one of you? Warranty replacement will only ship to the US — if either of you could just keep it around until I'm next around (which I guess will be TPAC), I'd appreciate it.
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  856. # [20:36] <TabAtkins> gsnedders: Yeah, let me send you mya ddress.
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  901. # [21:47] <gsnedders> Can someone please fix Fx so if there's a new update made available after one has been downloaded it downloads the new one?
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  904. # [21:51] <Ms2ger> Anyone feel like getting the webgl tests into wpt?
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  929. # [22:28] <MikeSmith> greetings from San Francisco whatwgians
  930. # [22:28] <Hixie> greetings
  931. # [22:29] <MikeSmith> I guess I won't need the down jacket I brought
  932. # [22:29] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: yeah I feel like getting webgl tests into wpt but not strongly enough to write them
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  935. # [22:29] <Ms2ger> Khronos has some
  936. # [22:30] <MikeSmith> well
  937. # [22:30] <Ms2ger> Not very good ones
  938. # [22:30] <Ms2ger> But still :)
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  942. # [22:30] <MikeSmith> yeah maybe they've improved since that last time I tried to run them
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  947. # [22:32] <rafaelrinaldi> MikeSmith: greetings from Brazil :)
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  950. # [22:36] <MikeSmith> rafaelrinaldi: I reckon my down jacket would be even less useful there right now
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  959. # [22:45] <hober> MikeSmith: how long are you in town?
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  963. # [22:46] <MikeSmith> hober: all week
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  965. # [22:47] <othermaciej> hober, MikeSmith: town == SF?
  966. # [22:47] <MikeSmith> othermaciej: yep
  967. # [22:48] <Domenic_> so... how about dem microtasks? (i am stuck compiling java at work and super-bored.)
  968. # [22:48] <othermaciej> I believe this calls for a traditional ritual ingestion of alcoholic beverages at some point
  969. # [22:48] <othermaciej> (if time permits)
  970. # [22:48] <hober> othermaciej++
  971. # [22:50] <MikeSmith> othermaciej: yes and a toast or two or three to something appropriate
  972. # [22:51] <MikeSmith> my evenings are pretty much all free so far
  973. # [22:51] <MikeSmith> so, plenty of toasting opportunities
  974. # [22:52] <Hixie> anyone got ELinks around?
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  978. # [22:54] <MikeSmith> Hixie: I reckon I do
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  980. # [22:55] <Hixie> MikeSmith: http://damowmow.com/playground/demos/xhtml/001.xhtml
  981. # [22:55] <Hixie> MikeSmith: basic sanity test for xhtml. what does it do on that page?
  982. # [22:55] <Hixie> (compare to firefox or chrome or something for a baseline)
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  984. # [22:55] <MikeSmith> it says "What would you like to do with the file '001.xhtml' (type: text/xml)?"
  985. # [22:55] <MikeSmith> prompts me to download it
  986. # [22:56] <Hixie> excellent, thanks
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  990. # [23:01] <Hixie> i wonder where this convention of quoting using [[...]] came from
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  992. # [23:02] <Hixie> it's so ugly and unclear compared to prefixing lines in blocks, or using regular quotes...
  993. # [23:02] <TabAtkins> Who's doing that? That's weird.
  994. # [23:02] <TabAtkins> [...] is only to be used for elisions and rephrasings within a quote.
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  996. # [23:09] <Hixie> a lot of people do [[...]]
  997. # [23:10] <Hixie> e.g. the bug filing thing on dom.spec.whatwg.org
  998. # [23:11] <TabAtkins> Oh, that's weird.
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  1032. # [23:53] <Hixie> wtf
  1033. # [23:53] <Hixie> apache just stopped responding?
  1034. # [23:53] <Hixie> everything else on the machine is working fine.
  1035. # [23:53] * Quits: reyre (~reyre@bas1-streetsville52-1279283706.dsl.bell.ca) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1036. # [23:54] <SimonSapin> Is there public data where I can look for usage of some features on the web?
  1037. # [23:54] <SimonSapin> (In this case, this is about dropping display:-moz-grid, which is XUL and not css-grid)
  1038. # [23:55] <Hixie> SimonSapin: there are some... Philip`_ might know about them?
  1039. # [23:55] <Hixie> or zcorpan?
  1040. # [23:55] <Hixie> in other news, it seems my outage is limited to ipv4.
  1041. # [23:55] <Hixie> no, not even that
  1042. # [23:55] <Hixie> w.t.f.
  1043. # [23:56] <Hixie> and now it works
  1044. # [23:56] <Hixie> computers baffle me.
  1045. # [23:59] * Joins: reyre (~reyre@bas1-streetsville52-1279283706.dsl.bell.ca)
  1046. # [23:59] <aklein> Hixie: can you clarify whether you changed <img> elements to reload when _inserted_ into a new document or when _adopted_ into a new document? http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=8508&to=8509 isn't loading for me
  1047. # Session Close: Tue Feb 25 00:00:00 2014

The end :)