/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-03-17 / end

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  34. # [01:24] <Hixie> GPHemsley: see mithro's comment
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  45. # [01:36] <mithro> Hixie / GPHemsley: annevk hooked me up with an account, thanks! Probably a good idea to either change the link in the header or fix the page at http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Special:ListUsers%26group%3Dautoconfirmed
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  61. # [02:20] <Hixie> did we ever determine the average number of attributes per start tag on the web?
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  129. # [07:46] <zcorpan> Hixie: http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/misc/stats/attrcounts.png
  130. # [07:47] <zcorpan> Hixie: though i think that's both old and a very small sample
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  180. # [09:43] <jgraham> http://xkcd.com/1343/ - reminds me of http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/introduction.html#how-to-read-this-specification :)
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  185. # [10:09] <zcorpan> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23822 so should we change XHR to not use utf-8?
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  243. # [11:47] <annevk> Can someone explain to me why you'd check Attr.specified?
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  246. # [11:53] <zcorpan> annevk: you'd check it to filter out attributes that shouldn't exist per today's rules?
  247. # [11:54] <darobin> annevk: the Sizzle source code says "Use getAttributeNode to fetch booleans when getAttribute lies" and uses that with .specified
  248. # [11:55] <darobin> it seems to be related to the fact that in some cases the browser gives a value for an attribute that wasn't there
  249. # [11:56] <zcorpan> yeah the old dom spec required that an Attr be there if the DTD gives a default value, with .specified = false
  250. # [11:57] <zcorpan> and some browsers actually did, iirc old presto at least
  251. # [11:57] <darobin> the comments says IE<9
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  256. # [12:09] <annevk> zcorpan: o_O
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  258. # [12:12] <foolip_> annevk: is there anything about Attr that doesn't make you o_O?
  259. # [12:13] <darobin> foolip_: good point
  260. # [12:13] * foolip_ found out about the child text node thing recently and was amused
  261. # [12:13] <foolip_> or horrified, really
  262. # [12:13] <darobin> foolip_: oh you can have more than one child node
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  264. # [12:15] <foolip_> sure
  265. # [12:15] <foolip_> who designed this API, and did it seem good at the time?
  266. # [12:16] <annevk> The child text node thing is because they also add Entity as a node and the DOM was also creating documents...
  267. # [12:16] <annevk> It was all kind of bad
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  269. # [12:28] <darobin> foolip_: the DOM never seemed good to anyone that I know of
  270. # [12:28] <darobin> they were trying to cater to too many use cases at the same time, with too little experience of what was needed
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  272. # [12:29] <darobin> notably, it was thought it could be used for authoring tools, which was a pretty bad idea
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  275. # [12:40] <Ms2ger> Don't tell glazou
  276. # [12:41] <annevk> I don't get http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2013Nov/0204.html
  277. # [12:41] <annevk> The 2D suffix is inconsistent with most bits of the <canvas> API
  278. # [12:41] <annevk> darobin: also Java
  279. # [12:42] * WolfieZero|Away is now known as WolfieZero
  280. # [12:42] <Ms2ger> CanvasRenderingContext2D?
  281. # [12:42] <darobin> annevk: well yeah, that didn't help either
  282. # [12:42] <Ms2ger> Also XML, DTDs...
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  302. # [13:41] <GPHemsley> mithro: Fixed, thanks.
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  346. # [15:17] <annevk> I like that Aryeh Gregor has been back, I hope he sticks around
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  350. # [15:26] <Ms2ger> He said that he wouldn't be, pretty much
  351. # [15:26] <Ms2ger> But he does check email occasionally
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  379. # [16:08] <annevk> Ms2ger: why did you not use [TreatNullAs=EmptyString] for nodeValue?
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  381. # [16:09] <Ms2ger> Hmm
  382. # [16:09] <Ms2ger> I think I was mirroring textContens
  383. # [16:10] <Ms2ger> nt*
  384. # [16:11] <Ms2ger> I guess they can both use [TreatNullAs=EmptyString]
  385. # [16:11] <Ms2ger> Or not...
  386. # [16:12] <Ms2ger> The [TreatNullAs] extended attribute MUST NOT be specified on an operation argument, attribute or operation return value whose type is not DOMString.
  387. # [16:12] <Ms2ger> And it's 'DOMString?'
  388. # [16:12] <Ms2ger> annevk, ^
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  390. # [16:13] <annevk> Oh, because it returns null? Meh
  391. # [16:13] <annevk> I wish we had separate getter and setter types already
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  395. # [16:25] <annevk> I forgot how getAttributeNode() worked
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  398. # [16:30] <annevk> foolip_: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25016
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  426. # [17:20] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
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  443. # [17:59] <Ms2ger> "I like XSL-FO's..."
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  488. # [19:07] <Hixie> zcorpan: thanks
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  500. # [19:38] <annevk> Just use utf-8 in 2014 is still not trivially accepted: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21275#c17
  501. # [19:38] <annevk> Also before comment 17 for what it's worth
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  504. # [19:42] <annevk> I like http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2014Mar/0005.html
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  547. # [21:05] <Hixie> it's annoying that there's no way to tell if the author is writing <canvas> fallback content for when the canvas is disabled vs for when the canvas is interactive but the user has an AT
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  549. # [21:05] <Hixie> (i kinda want different content models for those two cases)
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  555. # [21:06] <Hixie> (e.g. it'd be helpful to catch the case of an author accidentally putting an <img> in an interactive canvas's AT tree, but obviously in the disabled-canvas fallback case it's highly likely that an image or image map would be useful)
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  560. # [21:17] <Hixie> zcorpan: ping https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24892
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  596. # [22:21] <jamesr_> annevk, smaug____: in case you haven't seen it, we've pushed back the showModalDialog deletion by 6 weeks in blink
  597. # [22:22] <Ms2ger> Aww
  598. # [22:22] <jamesr_> eta to removal hitting stable is late july
  599. # [22:22] <smaug____> jamesr_: noticed
  600. # [22:22] <Hixie> so is anyone running a pool on when showModalDialog() will actually drop from chrome stable? :-)
  601. # [22:23] <Hixie> or maybe when it will drop from firefox would be an even better pool :-)
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  604. # [22:24] <smaug____> I think I'm happy to let Chrome take some more of the breakage-hit
  605. # [22:24] <Hixie> i'll put ten chips on it being removed from chrome for more than 12 weeks by 2017, removed from firefox by 2021. :-)
  606. # [22:25] <smaug____> hmm, Firefox 31 would be end of July
  607. # [22:25] <smaug____> that is possible
  608. # [22:25] <smaug____> which one is the next esr
  609. # [22:25] <Ms2ger> 31
  610. # [22:26] <smaug____> ok, 32 sounds then better target for the removal
  611. # [22:26] <smaug____> beginning of September
  612. # [22:26] <jamesr_> ~when would that be?
  613. # [22:26] <jamesr_> ok
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  616. # [22:31] <smaug____> jamesr_: hey, long ago you asked about having deltas in scroll event?
  617. # [22:31] <smaug____> any plans to implement such thing in Blink?
  618. # [22:32] <smaug____> since there is a patch for Gecko, but need to get the thing spec'ed ... assuming there is interest for it
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  624. # [22:37] <jamesr_> that sounds like a useful thing to me. i'm not seeing any open bugs on this
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  626. # [22:38] <jamesr_> where can we usefully spec new things on events?
  627. # [22:38] <smaug____> jamesr_: I think you asked about deltas around 2011-05-06
  628. # [22:38] <smaug____> jamesr_: probably webapps
  629. # [22:39] <jamesr_> i think it'd be great. we also need to figure out how to get off of integers for these things
  630. # [22:39] <jamesr_> the number of machines for which integers can represent something useful keeps declining at a rapid rate
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The end :)