/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-04-14 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Apr 14 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  13. # [00:27] <MikeSmith> Domenic_: hmm so per the spec that gives "file:///" by design instead of "file:///C:/"?
  14. # [00:27] <MikeSmith> annevk: 🐻
  15. # [00:28] <MikeSmith> annevk: you went with that to match the IE and Chrome behavior?
  16. # [00:28] <annevk> MikeSmith: I think Gecko, it does not match IE or Chrome iirc
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  18. # [00:29] <MikeSmith> ah
  19. # [00:29] <annevk> MikeSmith: however, the issue is open for a reason
  20. # [00:29] <MikeSmith> ok
  21. # [00:29] <annevk> MikeSmith: Windows legacy should probably be assimilated
  22. # [00:29] <MikeSmith> annevk: yeah
  23. # [00:30] <MikeSmith> annevk: btw is there some way you can migrate that issue to https://github.com/whatwg/url
  24. # [00:31] <MikeSmith> doesn't matter since I'm now watching your repo too
  25. # [00:31] <annevk> MikeSmith: should probably file a bug for it at some point
  26. # [00:32] <annevk> MikeSmith: I think my parser code is now maintained as part of some Google project, still need to add a notice
  27. # [00:34] <MikeSmith> annevk: oh, it's cool that it's being used
  28. # [00:34] <MikeSmith> Domenic_: https://github.com/bterlson/ecmascript is interesting
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  113. # [04:17] <TabAtkins> Urgh, appcache examples are... lacking.
  114. # [04:18] <TabAtkins> Say I want to cache a single-page app. There's one data script I'd like to load fresh when online, but allow to draw from cache when offline. How to write?
  115. # [04:18] <TabAtkins> I kinda suspect it's "CACHE: data-script.js SETTINGS: prefer-online NETWORK: data-script.js"?
  116. # [04:19] <TabAtkins> The loading algo is too long and annoying to read to figure out what the actual behavior of this is.
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  126. # [05:08] <Domenic_> MikeSmith: yeah after ES6 ships we hope to move to something like that.
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  133. # [05:22] <MikeSmith> Domenic_: cool
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  210. # [10:30] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: isn't this wrong for inlines? "If the property does not apply to this element, then the element has no used value for that property." http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-cascade/#used
  211. # [10:31] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: (and the width/height properties)
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  238. # [11:42] <hsivonen> http://telemetry.mozilla.org/#release/28/DECODER_INSTANTIATED_HZ/saved_session/Firefox is encouraging
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  240. # [11:43] <IZh> Hi.
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  242. # [11:44] <IZh> I have seen <html lang="en-US-x-hixie"...> on developers.whatwg.org. What does it mean? Is it Hixie's dialect of US English? ;-)
  243. # [11:46] <hsivonen> IZh: yes
  244. # [11:46] <hsivonen> IZh: http://ian.hixie.ch/bible/english
  245. # [11:46] * Ms2ger wonders if changing it to en-GB-x-hixie would be a good way to annoy people who want to fork it into en-US
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  248. # Session Close: Mon Apr 14 11:46:27 2014
  249. #
  250. # Session Start: Mon Apr 14 11:46:27 2014
  251. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  252. # [11:47] * Attempting to rejoin channel #whatwg
  253. # [11:47] * Rejoined channel #whatwg
  254. # [11:47] * Topic is 'http://www.whatwg.org/ — logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ & http://logbot.glob.com.au/ — stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html — Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  255. # [11:47] * Set by annevk!~annevk@207.218.72.65 on Tue Mar 25 11:47:32
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  259. # [11:49] <IZh> What's the point of having own language? I don't see drastical difference to en-US.
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  286. # [12:39] <annevk> Welcome back hsivonen!
  287. # [12:40] <annevk> hsivonen: it'd be great if hz-gb-2312 could be nuked
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  294. # [13:13] <hsivonen> annevk: I'm wondering if I should just nuke it without moving it to c-c myself and let Thunderbird devs know that it's up to them to add it to c-c
  295. # [13:13] <hsivonen> ...or if I should move it to c-c
  296. # [13:14] <hsivonen> annevk: curiously, the supposedly unreachable IBM encodings have been reached in very small numbers *somehow*
  297. # [13:14] <hsivonen> I wonder what kind of bug is involved
  298. # [13:15] <annevk> Could it be that custom builds of Firefox still report back?
  299. # [13:15] <hsivonen> dunno. could be a fringe extension doing something
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  301. # [13:16] <annevk> hsivonen: makes sense I guess
  302. # [13:17] <hsivonen> I can't even get c-c to build right now
  303. # [13:17] <hsivonen> it would be easier to help TB devs if I could build their stuff
  304. # [13:17] <annevk> hsivonen: I think letting Thunderbird know what's up is okay...
  305. # [13:18] <annevk> hsivonen: it's a bit unclear to me how alive that project still is
  306. # [13:18] <hsivonen> hmm. I could do the initial "removal" the same way EUC-TW and the IBM encodings were removed
  307. # [13:18] <annevk> hsivonen: e.g. for Firefox OS we are building a new email client
  308. # [13:19] <hsivonen> i.e. remove it from the Encoding Standard alias table
  309. # [13:19] <jgraham> annevk: You haven't used the FirefoxOS email client have you?
  310. # [13:19] <annevk> jgraham: I don't think that would clarify what I'm unclear about
  311. # [13:20] <jgraham> Comparing it to Thunderbird isn't really talking about two similar products
  312. # [13:20] <annevk> hsivonen: yeah that makes sense
  313. # [13:20] <jgraham> Anyway the status of Thunderbird is that Mozilla keep the lights on but doesn't pay anyone to work on it
  314. # [13:21] <jgraham> There does seem to be some sort of community around it
  315. # [13:22] <annevk> hsivonen: btw, I'm happy to rewrite the algorithms to use bit shifting and such, I just need to figure out how to do it; I'm not really familiar with that kind of math, I imagine an implementor would be though
  316. # [13:33] <hsivonen> annevk: I see
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  359. # [15:00] <annevk> hsivonen: so SimonSapin explained how to fix utf-8
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  371. # [15:54] <annevk> I was going to say something else, but I updated the bug instead it seems
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  374. # [15:58] <annevk> whoa
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  376. # [15:58] <annevk> GitHub displaying .csv is sweet https://github.com/briandailey/pycon-2014-job-fair/blob/master/data.csv
  377. # [15:58] <annevk> that kind of stuff just makes you want to start using that format again
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  379. # [15:59] <annevk> we should get things like <table src=.cvs> without loads of JavaScript
  380. # [16:00] <jgraham> Seems like it would be pretty weird
  381. # [16:01] <jgraham> It would be kind of like a macro in the parser since it would presumably expand to a whole big DOM
  382. # [16:02] <jgraham> Well, I guess it could be a shadow DOM, but this is a case where encapsulation doesn't seem helpful
  383. # [16:02] <Ms2ger> Didn't tantek propose that eons ago?
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  386. # [16:05] <annevk> jgraham: I was thinking DOM manipulation
  387. # [16:05] <annevk> Ms2ger: there's remnants of it in HTML4
  388. # [16:05] <annevk> Ms2ger: I think IE had something like it
  389. # [16:05] <jgraham> In unrelated related news, Firefox OS isn't a company
  390. # [16:06] <jgraham> I assume
  391. # [16:06] <annevk> Why?
  392. # [16:06] <jgraham> Why isn't it a company?
  393. # [16:06] <annevk> Why is it news?
  394. # [16:07] <jgraham> Because that csv claims that a company called "Firefox OS" was at the jobs fair
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  396. # [16:07] <annevk> jgraham: it seems that was fixed two hours ago
  397. # [16:08] <jgraham> Oh, well I got an old version then
  398. # [16:08] <annevk> GitHub must not like you
  399. # [16:08] <jgraham> Understandable
  400. # [16:08] <annevk> Quite
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  404. # [16:44] <annevk> https://tankredhase.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/heartbleed-and-javascript-crypto/ Hmm, "One codebase means less room for error."... Heartbleed is the perfect example for why one codebase is a very bad idea...
  405. # [16:47] <jtcranmer> given the statements after the header
  406. # [16:47] <jtcranmer> I suspect he means more that fewer lines of code are better
  407. # [16:50] <jgraham> Yeah, the worrying sentence there was " If there’s anything we’ve learned from Heartbleed, it’s that no matter the choice of programming language, the biggest risk is human error."
  408. # [16:51] <jgraham> If you are only just now learning that human error is the cause of bugs in programs written by humans, I don't know what to say
  409. # [16:52] <jgraham> One kind of human error might be not correctly taking account of the tendency for humans to make errors and work with tools that make such errors especially troublesome
  410. # [16:53] <Ms2ger> Let's just blame Ritchie
  411. # [16:54] <tantek> Ms2ger indeed (re table and csv), and I think TabAtkins prototyped it too.
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  413. # [17:03] <jtcranmer> annevk: ping
  414. # [17:03] <annevk> jtcranmer: http://www.nohello.com/
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  417. # [17:04] <jtcranmer> annevk: any updates on the IDNA clusterfuck?
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  419. # [17:04] <annevk> jtcranmer: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2014Apr/0018.html
  420. # [17:05] <annevk> jtcranmer: http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr46/proposed.html has my proposed changes, still no syntax definition of a domain though, not sure when we'll get that
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  422. # [17:05] <jtcranmer> annevk: mostly, I'm trying to get a sense of what the URL statics will look like
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  424. # [17:06] <jtcranmer> so I can attempt to convince Firefox to implement them so I can use them
  425. # [17:06] <jtcranmer> or at least polyfill them
  426. # [17:06] <jtcranmer> I need it for https://github.com/mozilla-comm/jsmime/issues/6
  427. # [17:07] <annevk> jtcranmer: I think the two methods provided still make sense; the only question is how we want to signify error
  428. # [17:07] <annevk> jtcranmer: return the original string or throw
  429. # [17:08] <jtcranmer> well, the other question is about resolving unicode homograph attacks
  430. # [17:08] <annevk> if they are allowed per IDNA #46 I'm not going to disallow them
  431. # [17:08] <jtcranmer> all browsers do that nowadays by displaying the domain name in punycode form if it would contain a homograph
  432. # [17:08] <annevk> right
  433. # [17:09] <annevk> so one thing I wanted to add was domainToUI
  434. # [17:09] <annevk> which would use the tricks from the UA to decide whether or not it would do toUnicode in the end
  435. # [17:09] <jtcranmer> makes sense
  436. # [17:10] <annevk> as some browsers only display code points they think their users will understand (Chrome) whereas others follow other recommendations
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  438. # [17:11] <Domenic_> annevk: have you seen mathiasbynens's http://nodejs.org/api/punycode.html API?
  439. # [17:11] <annevk> Domenic_: Punycode != IDNA, but I have seen that and did discuss it with him
  440. # [17:12] <Domenic_> ah right, yeah. i guess i was thinking of "possible URL static functions"
  441. # [17:12] <annevk> Domenic_: I'm not sure Punycode can fail
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  443. # [17:12] <annevk> Domenic_: but IDNA ToASCII definitely can
  444. # [17:12] <jtcranmer> Domenic_: it lacks stringprep necessary for IDNA
  445. # [17:13] <annevk> And IDNA ToASCII is always used, even with eventual ToUnicode
  446. # [17:13] <jtcranmer> Domenic_: as I noted in my github issue, there is 0 pure-JS code that exists that can solve IDNA
  447. # [17:13] <jtcranmer> I can kind of polyfill domainToUI today in Firefox, but only because Firefox is apparently violating the URL spec
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  450. # [17:14] <annevk> Firefox' mix of displaying the domain name in Unicode and the rest in ASCII is weird
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  452. # [17:14] <annevk> Although bz considers it a best effort
  453. # [17:15] <jtcranmer> I'd argue that shoving things out in Unicode is better than always going to ASCII
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  460. # [17:16] <annevk> So mathiasbynens' implementation does throw for ToASCII
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  464. # [17:17] <jtcranmer> Domenic_: https://github.com/mathiasbynens/todo/issues/9
  465. # [17:17] <annevk> jtcranmer: well you need ToASCII either way, and that's what will hit the DNS, it's the question of whether you go ToUnicode afterwards and then ToASCII again later on or just serialize
  466. # [17:18] <jtcranmer> annevk: true, but the more we can hide the punycode from end users, the better
  467. # [17:19] <annevk> jtcranmer: for end users you will already have to transform the string somehow
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  469. # [17:19] <annevk> jtcranmer: you don't want ASCII paths
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  471. # [17:19] <annevk> At some point I'll define URL.urlToUI too I suppose
  472. # [17:20] <annevk> Or maybe URL.prototype.toUIString()
  473. # [17:20] <zewt> ("toascii" sure seems to mean it loses any codepoints over U+7F or so)
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  475. # [17:20] <annevk> Domenic_: does JavaScript have precedents for toUIString()?
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  478. # [17:22] <zewt> (and yeah I know, just hard to get keep some people from getting confused over what "ASCII" means for some reason, heh)
  479. # [17:22] <mathiasbynens> annevk: you mean in `ToASCII` → `encode`? it *should* never throw, the errors are there just in case (http://rawgit.com/bestiejs/punycode.js/master/coverage/punycode.js/punycode.js.html)
  480. # [17:23] <annevk> mathiasbynens: oh okay
  481. # [17:23] <Domenic_> annevk: I don't think so...
  482. # [17:23] <annevk> mathiasbynens: so yeah, I dunno what's better
  483. # [17:24] <zewt> when I see JS code with var declarations at the top of functions, I smell old C programmer
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  485. # [17:24] <annevk> Domenic_: is it better to have a static or a method for something like that?
  486. # [17:25] <Domenic_> annevk: ah interesting. I feel like this is related to discussions around whether things belong on Math. or Number.prototype....
  487. # [17:25] <annevk> Domenic_: yeah I guess
  488. # [17:25] <Domenic_> probably a method though
  489. # [17:25] <Domenic_> since toString() is already a method
  490. # [17:25] <annevk> Domenic_: toString() is rather magical
  491. # [17:25] <Domenic_> how so?
  492. # [17:26] <annevk> Domenic_: for a long time I didn't even realize it was a thing; I thought objects just stringified
  493. # [17:26] <annevk> Domenic_: as happens when you do + "" and such
  494. # [17:26] <Domenic_> sounds like WebIDL-inspired thinking ;)
  495. # [17:26] <annevk> Domenic_: nah, this was way before IDL
  496. # [17:26] <zewt> i don't think toString should be a precedent for making other functions-that-convert-to-some-kind-of-string methods
  497. # [17:26] <Domenic_> ah ok
  498. # [17:27] <Domenic_> yeah toString() and valueOf() and then() and toJSON() are all methods used by various parts of the spec
  499. # [17:27] <jtcranmer> well, .toString() invokes magic paths in js
  500. # [17:27] <Domenic_> where if you use x in a certain context it will invoke x.method()
  501. # [17:27] <jtcranmer> and all I want to do is just be able to implement EAI and IDN for email addresses
  502. # [17:28] <annevk> jtcranmer: yeah sorry
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  505. # [17:28] <annevk> jtcranmer: for domain names they'll have to be statics so the current API is roughly how it will be in the end
  506. # [17:29] <jtcranmer> I just need to build a FF polyfill so I can test it
  507. # [17:29] <annevk> jtcranmer: I might change to throwing or maybe returning the empty string in case of bad input
  508. # [17:29] <JonathanNeal> Polyfill for what, jtcranmer?
  509. # [17:29] <annevk> jtcranmer: but other than that I think those two are stable
  510. # [17:29] <jtcranmer> except I'm likely to find a corner case I want to test that the current implementations can't handle
  511. # [17:29] <zewt> for all of Firefox
  512. # [17:29] <jtcranmer> JonathanNeal: URL.domainTo*
  513. # [17:30] <smaug____> does gmail have some setting to logout automatically after closing it?
  514. # [17:30] <JonathanNeal> jtcranmer: got documentation for it? I could add one to polyfill.io
  515. # [17:30] <jtcranmer> JonathanNeal: http://url.spec.whatwg.org/#url-statics
  516. # [17:31] <JonathanNeal> wow, no idea what that is doing.
  517. # [17:32] <jtcranmer> yeah, it can't be polyfilled using existing techniques
  518. # [17:32] <jtcranmer> which is the problem
  519. # [17:32] <annevk> smaug____: is there no box to say the computer is untrusted?
  520. # [17:32] <annevk> jtcranmer: they can, just requires a bunch of code
  521. # [17:32] <jtcranmer> perhaps a better way to put it
  522. # [17:33] <jtcranmer> "there is no extant code that can polyfill it"
  523. # [17:33] <JonathanNeal> In dumb people terms, what does it do?
  524. # [17:34] <annevk> translates domain names between its different representations
  525. # [17:34] <annevk> s/its/their/
  526. # [17:34] <jtcranmer> it converts strings like ケツァルコアトル。tlalocan to xn--bckc7bj7f1a6vd.tlalocan and vice versa
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  528. # [17:34] <annevk> losing the fancy dots unfortunately
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  530. # [17:35] <annevk> toUI might be able to do some extra tricky for those if people feel inclined
  531. # [17:35] <jtcranmer> consequence of me not hitting <Meta>-<Space> quickly enough
  532. # [17:36] <JonathanNeal> jtcranmer: thanks for the explanation, ah, translation
  533. # [17:37] <jtcranmer> the part I just described is the easy part (Punycode), the hard part is the preprocessing necessary first (StringPrep/NamePrep)
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  581. # [19:14] <manus> Hi folks. Just following up on a question I had at a pretty inactive time in the channel about a week and a half ago, regarding the different notions of focus on a web page: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20140403#l-339
  582. # [19:14] <manus> MikeSmith pointed me to SteveF, and jgraham pointed me to Hixie, but I'm not sure either of them got to see or respond to the issues
  583. # [19:14] <MikeSmith> manus: Hixie
  584. # [19:14] <MikeSmith> when he's around
  585. # [19:14] <MikeSmith> if it's about focus
  586. # [19:15] <Hixie> i'm here, give me a minute, afk
  587. # [19:15] <manus> cool, thanks
  588. # [19:15] <manus> oh, sweet, ok
  589. # [19:16] <MikeSmith> tantek: btw I think I misunderstood what you had said at the webapps wg f2f about the group being prevented from referencing whatwg specs
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  591. # [19:17] <MikeSmith> tantek: and needing the AB to do.. something .. in order for the group to be able to reference whatwg specs instead of copying them
  592. # [19:19] <Hixie> manus: ok, here now. what's up?
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  594. # [19:20] <manus> Hey Hixie. I just wanted to know if there's any defined/documented behavior for keyboard scrolling focus (as opposed to "normal" focus) for overflowed elements such as scrollable divs?
  595. # [19:20] <manus> Hixie: I.e., how should should keyboard scrolling work in different cases such as those in this jsfiddle: http://jsbin.com/sizofuse/7/edit?html,output ?
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  597. # [19:21] <Hixie> Ah, yes
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  599. # [19:21] <Hixie> this was recently updated in the spec
  600. # [19:21] <MikeSmith> tantek: anyway maybe we should all take that discussion to public-webapps and continue it there rather than just letting it drop
  601. # [19:21] <Hixie> the browsers aren't very interoperable in this rea, unfortunately
  602. # [19:22] <manus> Hixie: awesome that there's an update. are browsers hopelessly different, or would said spec update make it better?
  603. # [19:22] <MikeSmith> tantek: anyway I'm off to sleep now but maybe we can chat about it more here later after I'm back
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  606. # [19:23] <Hixie> manus: hopefully the browsers will converge over time now that the spec is not completely out of touch with the reality
  607. # [19:23] <Hixie> manus: but it'd probably happen faster if someone agreed that it needed to be fixed and wrote tests and filed bugs on the browsers :-)
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  609. # [19:23] <manus> Hixie: cool. I basically want a link to point to so I can file bugs with the concerned browsers
  610. # [19:24] <manus> yeah
  611. # [19:24] <manus> :]
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  616. # [19:25] <Hixie> manus: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#focus is where it all begins
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  618. # [19:25] <Hixie> manus: the term you're looking for is "scrollable regions"
  619. # [19:26] <manus> Hixie: thanks, I'll take a look. that helps a lot (terminology)
  620. # [19:28] <Hixie> hober: ping https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25236
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  637. # [20:02] <TabAtkins> zcorpan: What do you mean by "wrong for inlines"?
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  639. # [20:03] <Hixie> hsivonen: getting timeouts from validator.nu when validating the HTML spec, fwiw
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  664. # [20:20] <Hixie> TabAtkins: ping https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25026 - any ideas?
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  679. # [20:29] <Domenic_> that's an interesting one
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  682. # [20:30] <TabAtkins> Hixie: None besides, like, a 'min-line-height' property.
  683. # [20:30] <Hixie> should i just clamp it with prose for now?
  684. # [20:30] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
  685. # [20:30] <Hixie> k
  686. # [20:30] <Hixie> thanks
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  699. # [20:47] <tantek> MikeSmith - I have no idea what the issue is or was, so I'm just going to keep pushing forward with the assumption that editors in the WebApps WG are free to reference WHATWG specs as they see fit.
  700. # [20:47] <tantek> If someone raises a specific issue, or says they're being blocked from doing that for some reason, we can respond as needed.
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  704. # [20:51] <jcgregorio> Hixie: can I get an account on http://wiki.whatwg.org/ as jcgregorio?
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  707. # [20:54] <eatsomeatso> I just found out that I cannot test my multiplayer netplay JavaScript game by opening multiple tabs in Firefox; only the one that is active seems to run any logic. So I opened two different instances (windows) of Firefox instead, and then it works. But then it lags so much that it becomes impossible to tell what the game is gonna be like when played on unique computers over the network. Dammit.
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  718. # [21:12] <annevk> jcgregorio / Hixie: I can give you an account if you msg me your email
  719. # [21:13] <annevk> tantek: if that's the case pushback to people who raise objections to that, such as Glenn Adams, might be in order
  720. # [21:15] <jcgregorio> annevk: jcgregorio@google.com, thanks!
  721. # [21:16] <annevk> done
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  726. # [21:19] <jcgregorio> annevk: thanks!
  727. # [21:20] <tantek> annevk - oh yeah I certainly do :)
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  754. # [21:50] <arunranga> heycam|away, any idea when you’ll have something in place for https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23682, having to do with sequence<T> and friends?
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  795. # [23:04] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: so consider <span>foo</span>, doesn't that have a used value for the 'width' property?
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  797. # [23:05] <SamB> zcorpan: hmm?
  798. # [23:06] <zcorpan> SamB: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-cascade/#used "If the property does not apply to this element, then the element has no used value for that property."
  799. # [23:06] <TabAtkins> zcorpan: Are you talking about in practice, or observable effects via gCS(), or...
  800. # [23:07] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: in this case the observable effect of gCS
  801. # [23:07] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: but also interested in understanding how the model is intended to be
  802. # [23:07] <TabAtkins> Yeah, given that gCS is defined in terms of used values, looks like we'd need to fix our definition.
  803. # [23:08] <TabAtkins> The model is supposed to be what is said. inlines *dont'* have used 'width' property values.
  804. # [23:08] <TabAtkins> Because they don't use 'width' in their layout algorithms.
  805. # [23:08] <zcorpan> ok. so gCS needs to say something else. and .usedStyle will be less useful?
  806. # [23:09] <zcorpan> depending on what we want .usedStyle to do i guess
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  808. # [23:09] <TabAtkins> What could .usedStyle possibly give for it?
  809. # [23:09] <TabAtkins> The computed value, I guess.
  810. # [23:10] <zcorpan> computed as in "auto"?
  811. # [23:10] <TabAtkins> Whatever the computed value is, yeah.
  812. # [23:10] * TabAtkins wonders what it returns today.
  813. # [23:10] <zcorpan> nobody implements .usedStyle i think
  814. # [23:11] <TabAtkins> Right, I'm wondering about gcs.
  815. # [23:11] <zcorpan> gCS returns the ... old ... used style
  816. # [23:11] <zcorpan> so 123px
  817. # [23:11] <TabAtkins> I get "auto" in chrome.
  818. # [23:11] <zcorpan> yeah but everyone else uses the layouted width iirc
  819. # [23:12] <TabAtkins> Bleh.
  820. # [23:12] <TabAtkins> Well, at least we have an argument to the contrary. ^_^
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  824. # [23:13] <zcorpan> i thought gCS needed to return the layouted width for compat, but maybe webkit/blink not doing it means it can be changed?
  825. # [23:13] <TabAtkins> width/height are a bit magical in that they can be argued to be meaningful for all boxes, even when they don't have an effect.
  826. # [23:13] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
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  829. # [23:14] <zcorpan> at least gCS was first implemented with the CSS2.0 semantics of computed style, which later changed but browsers didn't change what gCS returned
  830. # [23:14] <TabAtkins> Yeah, which is why we had to invent the "resolved style" term.
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  832. # [23:14] <TabAtkins> I'll compose a thread.
  833. # [23:15] <zcorpan> ok. thakns!
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  837. # [23:20] <TabAtkins> zcorpan: Hm, cssom already defines its way around this, doesn't it? It says "if the proeprty applies to the element... the resolved value is used value. Otherwise, the resolved value is the computed value."
  838. # [23:21] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: hum, that would mean chrome is correct per spec
  839. # [23:21] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
  840. # [23:21] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: but i thought the spec was intended to match the others
  841. # [23:21] <TabAtkins> Shrug.
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  843. # [23:22] <zcorpan> relevant thing is what to do next :-)
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  846. # [23:24] <TabAtkins> Yeah, we're consistent with all five of the special properties.
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The end :)