/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-04-28 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Apr 28 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  28. # [02:57] <MikeSmith> from the peanut gallery https://twitter.com/chadaustin/status/460529236411817985
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  43. # [04:43] <MikeSmith> what can I use place of window.URL.createObjectURL in older browsers?
  44. # [04:47] <zewt> nasty, but xhr -> data: url?
  45. # [04:48] <MikeSmith> zewt: yeah I guess that'd work
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  47. # [05:12] <MikeSmith> IE11 doesn't actually seem to support blob: URLs in a@href as far as I can tell
  48. # [05:13] <MikeSmith> at least nothing happens when you click one
  49. # [05:13] <zewt> that's never supposed to work, as far as i know, though I think that's way underdefined right now
  50. # [05:14] <zewt> not sure if it should work to an iframe, but navigating the page to a blob URL doesn't make sense (since navigating away causes the blob itself to go away...)
  51. # [05:15] <MikeSmith> zewt: are you sure? I mean it works in other UAs. The UA just prompts you to download it.
  52. # [05:15] <zewt> i mean, it shouldn't load the link as a webpage and view it
  53. # [05:16] <MikeSmith> ah yeah
  54. # [05:16] <MikeSmith> sure
  55. # [05:16] <MikeSmith> but at least it should do.. something
  56. # [05:17] <MikeSmith> give an error somewhere at least
  57. # [05:17] <MikeSmith> in IE nothing happens at all -- no user error, no exception, nothing logged to console
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  61. # [05:33] * MikeSmith now tries to figure out why http://www.w3c-test.org/2dcontext/fill-and-stroke-styles/2d.pattern.modify.image1.html is timing out
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  68. # [06:15] <cabanier> MikeSmith: the image can't find red.png so you get a timeout
  69. # [06:17] <MikeSmith> cabanier: yeah
  70. # [06:17] <cabanier> :-)
  71. # [06:17] <MikeSmith> will push a fix for it
  72. # [06:20] <cabanier> MikeSmith: are there any test for focus rings?
  73. # [06:20] <MikeSmith> cabanier: yeah
  74. # [06:20] <cabanier> MikeSmith: great!
  75. # [06:20] <cabanier> MikeSmith: have a link?
  76. # [06:20] <MikeSmith> but the results are going to show that they fail in all UAs
  77. # [06:21] <MikeSmith> given that I'm not turning on any non-default flags
  78. # [06:21] <MikeSmith> cabanier: http://sideshowbarker.github.io/test-results/2dcontext/less-than-2.html
  79. # [06:22] <MikeSmith> cabanier: I thought you guys had agreed to drop the focus stuff from the CR draft
  80. # [06:23] <cabanier> MikeSmith: no, the focus ring is still in there, just not the custom one.
  81. # [06:23] <cabanier> MikeSmith: your test works fine on FF. Haven't tried chrome yet
  82. # [06:24] <cabanier> MikeSmith: hit regions are also in the spec. I'm about to submit them to FF
  83. # [06:25] <MikeSmith> cabanier: I think the focus ring stuff doesn't work without the user neededing to manually set some particular user pref, it should be dropped from the CR completely
  84. # [06:26] <cabanier> MikeSmith: I can ask FF to drop that requirement, especially if your test works
  85. # [06:26] <cabanier> MikeSmith: I can ask Samsung to do the same for Blink
  86. # [06:27] <MikeSmith> cabanier: as far as I can recall, they put it under a user pref for a reason
  87. # [06:27] <MikeSmith> as in, the intentionally did not want to ship it without out
  88. # [06:27] <MikeSmith> but if things have since changed, then yeah, it seems they should un-pref it
  89. # [06:28] <MikeSmith> otherwise it's not actually going to be usable by 99% of the users in practice
  90. # [06:28] <zcorpan> morning folks
  91. # [06:28] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: hey
  92. # [06:29] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: hey i have an idea of a new feature you can implement in v.nu if you're rolling your thumbs
  93. # [06:29] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: http://picture.responsiveimages.org
  94. # [06:29] <cabanier> MikeSmith: no, I did that because I was told that's the way to develop a new feature
  95. # [06:30] <cabanier> MikeSmith: I'll ask for shipping this week
  96. # [06:30] <MikeSmith> cabanier: ok
  97. # [06:30] <MikeSmith> hai
  98. # [06:30] * MikeSmith looks at zcorpan URL
  99. # [06:31] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: can try to add it this week
  100. # [06:31] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: cool
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  103. # [06:41] <TabAtkins> zcorpan: ...what's the new feature?
  104. # [06:41] <TabAtkins> Oh, the <picture> element.
  105. # [06:41] <zcorpan> right
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  139. # [08:04] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: r? https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/showcommit?first=64715af0&last=3316ec27&review=1364
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  144. # [08:23] <zcorpan> Hixie: thanks for the bug filer. haven't tried it yet but it looks nice
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  147. # [08:39] <TabAtkins> zcorpan: r+
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  155. # [08:57] <TabAtkins> There's not already a way to just get the underlying JS binary of a string into a TypedArray, is there?
  156. # [08:59] <TabAtkins> Pretending it's text, via TextEncoder, won't work, since it's probably invalid UTF-16 (stray surrogates abound).
  157. # [08:59] <TabAtkins> And doing a map with .charCodeAt is slow.
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  172. # [09:25] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: thanks!
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  194. # [10:28] <annevk> TabAtkins: I don't think there is, code units to bytes is uncharted territory, although maybe if you give String an iterator and pass that to ArrayBuffer.from()
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  201. # [10:37] <MikeSmith> annevk: in the context of https://twitter.com/chadaustin/status/460529236411817985 if you've not seen it yet
  202. # [10:37] <MikeSmith> ah
  203. # [10:37] <annevk> MikeSmith: just replied at the very end of that
  204. # [10:37] <MikeSmith> I see you commented
  205. # [10:37] <MikeSmith> yeah
  206. # [10:38] <annevk> MikeSmith: there's "file a bug" at the top, but I guess there's no help if braindead people make braindead comments
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  208. # [10:40] <MikeSmith> annevk: hey he alerted twitter man
  209. # [10:41] <annevk> MikeSmith: to be fair, that did work
  210. # [10:42] <MikeSmith> see! you're plainly wasting your time with that quaint "file a bug" old-school tech
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  213. # [10:44] <MikeSmith> btw it "worked" in this case only if you happened to have a column for "whatwg" keyword search set up in tweetdeck or whatever, and somebody actually paying attention to it
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  219. # [10:53] <zcorpan> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11984#c60 \o/
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  221. # [10:54] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: and only if the person tweeting points to the whatwg spec and not some fork
  222. # [10:54] <MikeSmith> yah
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  239. # [12:12] <annevk> https://twitter.com/antumbral/status/460723070743752704 fucking hell
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  241. # [12:14] <jgraham> annevk: Just calling things "scalar values" is super-confusing
  242. # [12:15] <jgraham> Because I don't think that most people have the context to realise that you mean "unicode scalar values"
  243. # [12:15] <annevk> jgraham: I guess you're starting a new thread?
  244. # [12:15] <annevk> jgraham: because my "fucking hell" was not at all about that
  245. # [12:15] <jgraham> annevk: No, I understand what it was about
  246. # [12:15] <annevk> jgraham: and if you want to debate Encoding Standard terms, you're welcome to convince everyone to agree on a set of terms
  247. # [12:16] <JakeA> annevk: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Projects/Social_API/Service_worker_API_reference - is this where the name came from?
  248. # [12:16] <JakeA> I assume that predates that SW spec
  249. # [12:16] <jgraham> I'm just pointing out that "scalar value" without context isn't going to make sense to most people
  250. # [12:16] <jgraham> I'm trying to be helpful, even if the W3C isn't
  251. # [12:16] <zcorpan> how about calling them "w3c please don't fork this spec"?
  252. # [12:17] * zcorpan -1 helpful
  253. # [12:18] <annevk> JakeA: I have no idea
  254. # [12:18] <annevk> jgraham: well, the specification defines the term
  255. # [12:19] <annevk> jgraham: I could be swayed by character / Unicode character as suggested at some point, if we can all agree on those
  256. # [12:19] <jgraham> annevk: Sure. But I doubt the audience of "random people on twitter" has memorised all the terms in the spec
  257. # [12:19] <annevk> jgraham: we're talking about the spec, obviously they can look it up
  258. # [12:21] <jgraham> Indeed. Nevertheless I think it would have been clearer if you had avoided that particular term of art since it's not widely known and has a totally different meaning in all other contexts
  259. # [12:21] <annevk> jgraham: can you rephrase my tweet?
  260. # [12:22] <jgraham> I think s/scalar values/unicode characters/ or s/scalar values/unicode scalar values/ are both improvements
  261. # [12:23] <jgraham> The second at least makes it clear that you mean a specific term of art
  262. # [12:24] <annevk> jgraham: note that it was not unclear to the other person that I was talking about a term of art
  263. # [12:25] <jgraham> annevk: OK, but it would have been unclear to me if I hadn't previously been introduced to the term "unicode scalar value" by you
  264. # [12:26] <annevk> jgraham: when I talk to you I'll be sure to spell it out ;-)
  265. # [12:26] <jgraham> Good good
  266. # [12:26] <annevk> jgraham: I don't disagree that all these things suck, but I only have the power to change so much
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  276. # [13:02] <jungkees> annevk: are you around?
  277. # [13:02] <annevk> jungkees: yup
  278. # [13:02] <jungkees> annevk: good. so can we talk about the fetch and SW hook?
  279. # [13:03] <annevk> jungkees: cool; so I haven't added placeholders yet, but the hook should be in http://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#basic-fetch under http/https
  280. # [13:03] <annevk> jungkees: probably as part of a rewrite of the eight step HTTP request algorithm
  281. # [13:04] <annevk> jungkees: and the return value from the service worker we can run the response steps on that follow those steps
  282. # [13:05] <annevk> jungkees: so we need some kind of hook for "here's a request, is there a service worker for it, and if there is, can you run it through it and hand me a response"
  283. # [13:06] <jungkees> annevk: I see. and do you see anything else we have to work on in terms of Request and Response defined in SW?
  284. # [13:07] <jungkees> I just commented on the issue in SW about the FetchEvent.purpose --> Request.context
  285. # [13:07] <annevk> jungkees: I'd like to define those objects in Fetch in due course
  286. # [13:07] <annevk> jungkees: since Fetch also defines the underlying concepts it makes sense to couple them I think
  287. # [13:08] <jungkees> In due course, I agree
  288. # [13:08] <annevk> jungkees: as for the APIs defined now, we should not expose synchronous
  289. # [13:08] <jungkees> We're just defining it in SW as for now and may hook it into the part of the fetch later on I guess
  290. # [13:08] <annevk> jungkees: I'm not sure if timeout should be on Request
  291. # [13:09] <annevk> jungkees: yeah, we can make the switch when I get around to it I suppose
  292. # [13:09] <annevk> jungkees: also bookkeeping details such as redirectCount should be not exposed
  293. # [13:09] <annevk> jungkees: forceSameOrigin seems redundant with Mode
  294. # [13:10] <jungkees> Right. I think we better make a ticket in SW issue list for that so that people are aware of what you think of as a direction.. and your plan for it
  295. # [13:10] <annevk> jungkees: there's a general ticket on Fetch integration
  296. # [13:10] <jungkees> alright. then let's keep updating it upon our discussion
  297. # [13:11] <jungkees> annevk: and.. do we need to add "CORS-with-forced-preflight" in the Mode enum?
  298. # [13:12] <annevk> jungkees: I guess
  299. # [13:12] <jungkees> alright
  300. # [13:12] <annevk> jungkees: it's weird if you're the one making the request, but if the request came from XHR, it makes sense to expose that
  301. # [13:17] <jungkees> annevk: Alright I'll add it. And found https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/issues/242; think it is the right place to discuss the plan from this point on
  302. # [13:18] <annevk> jungkees: yeah sure, but lets use IRC when questions come up, much quicker
  303. # [13:18] <jungkees> annevk: Ok
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  338. # [15:01] <annevk> jgraham: hey, can you walk me through a pull request merge again?
  339. # [15:02] <Ms2ger> "Click the button"?
  340. # [15:02] <annevk> Ms2ger: I'd prefer one commit in the history
  341. # [15:02] <jgraham> annevk: What are you trying to merge?
  342. # [15:02] <annevk> jgraham: https://github.com/whatwg/dom/pull/12
  343. # [15:02] <annevk> Ms2ger: otherwise we get two tweets
  344. # [15:03] <jgraham> annevk: OK, github makes this a bit difficult because there are multiple repos involved
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  347. # [15:04] <jgraham> So, locally, you can either add Aryeh's remote, or use one of the scripts on the internet that undoes some GH magic
  348. # [15:04] <jgraham> The first option is easier
  349. # [15:05] <jgraham> git remote add aryeh git@github.com:ayg/dom.git
  350. # [15:05] <jgraham> git fetch origin
  351. # [15:05] <jgraham> git fetch aryeh
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  353. # [15:06] <jgraham> git checkout aryeh/allow-filter-recursion
  354. # [15:06] <jgraham> git rebase origin/master
  355. # [15:06] <jgraham> git push origin HEAD:master
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  357. # [15:06] <jgraham> git checkout master
  358. # [15:06] <jgraham> git merge --ff-only
  359. # [15:06] <jgraham> (the last two steps aren't really necesssary)
  360. # [15:09] <Domenic_> Let me find my bash script, it is nice
  361. # [15:09] <Domenic_> I type "pr 42" in the current repo and it figures it out
  362. # [15:10] <jgraham> Yeah, like I say magic scripts exist. Does it also allow you to land PRs?
  363. # [15:10] <annevk> seems almost easier to just apply https://github.com/ayg/dom/commit/61544aa440d0ef6cff10776a952a9562aa67e295.patch
  364. # [15:11] <jgraham> Well not really
  365. # [15:12] <jgraham> I mean apart from adding the remote there's only one step that would really replace
  366. # [15:12] <jgraham> Umm, that didn't make sense
  367. # [15:12] <jgraham> Anyway the point is that it wouldn't be much easier
  368. # [15:12] <Domenic_> https://gist.github.com/domenic/11371574
  369. # [15:13] <jgraham> (in this case you could even optimise by checking out master; updating it to origin/master, cherry-picking aryeh's commit and pushing)
  370. # [15:13] <jgraham> Domenic_: that doesn't work
  371. # [15:13] <Domenic_> jgraham: I use it every day.
  372. # [15:13] <jgraham> annevk specifically wanted to not merge
  373. # [15:13] <Domenic_> jgraham: it rebases first
  374. # [15:13] <Domenic_> fast-forward merge
  375. # [15:14] <jgraham> Oh, OK. Would be way clearer with --ff-only there
  376. # [15:14] <Domenic_> sure, sounds good.
  377. # [15:16] <annevk> "pr: cannot open 12, No such file or directory"
  378. # [15:17] <Domenic_> Hmm. source ~/.bashrc ?
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  380. # [15:18] <Domenic_> I guess I haven't tested this on non-Windows systems...
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  382. # [15:22] <Domenic_> oh there's already a /usr/bin/pr on my Mac
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  384. # [15:22] <Domenic_> so a different name i guess
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  386. # [15:23] <annevk> I feel like such a noob. I changed the name, but it still does not work
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  388. # [15:24] <darobin> annevk: did you remember to source your bashrc in that console?
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  390. # [15:24] <annevk> Oh, Mac uses .profile?
  391. # [15:24] <annevk> http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/12993/why-doesnt-bashrc-run-automatically
  392. # [15:25] <darobin> yes
  393. # [15:25] <annevk> that worked
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  395. # [15:25] <darobin> you have to adapt "bashrc" to your platform :)
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  397. # [15:27] <Domenic_> my platform is the highly-popular Git Bash on Windows, so I can see why this might have been confusing -_-
  398. # [15:27] <darobin> lol
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  401. # [15:31] <annevk> Domenic_: ta
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  407. # [15:44] <jgraham> Domenic_: I guess you are the wrong person to ask how you get bash and python working in the same shell in windows? I was looking at getting the web-platform-tests running but something required both git and python, which didn't seem to want to work together in the msys.git shell I had
  408. # [15:45] <Domenic_> jgraham: I think Git Bash + installing Python using the installer has worked fine for me in the past.
  409. # [15:46] <jgraham> Hmm, OK
  410. # [15:46] <jgraham> maybe I just had path problems then
  411. # [15:46] <jgraham> I think this was the point at which the VM locked my computer
  412. # [15:47] <jgraham> and I have been to scared to try since
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  414. # [15:48] <annevk> jgraham: https://www.google.com/search?q=virtuelenv+windows ?
  415. # [15:48] <annevk> jgraham: even corrects typos
  416. # [15:48] <arv> annevk: dom.spec.whatwg.org is serving an empty document at the moment
  417. # [15:49] <annevk> hmm, the script works, I wonder if GH changed something
  418. # [15:49] <annevk> seems like GH fucked up my syncing
  419. # [15:49] <annevk> I just turned fetch blank
  420. # [15:49] <annevk> thanks arv, I'll investigate
  421. # [15:52] <annevk> well fuck, if I fetch https://raw.githubusercontent.com/whatwg/fetch/master/Overview.html it works, if I fetch it from the server, it doesn't
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  423. # [15:54] <Domenic_> what does "fetch it from the server" mean?
  424. # [15:54] <Domenic_> curl?
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  426. # [15:54] <annevk> curl -k
  427. # [15:55] <darobin> annevk: any chance you're using https://github.com/whatwg/fetch/raw/master/Overview.html instead of the link you posted above?
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  429. # [15:55] <darobin> (GitHub recently changed that and is redirecting)
  430. # [15:55] <annevk> nope
  431. # [15:56] <annevk> but actually curl directly works, it's just curl -k x > y that fails
  432. # [15:56] <annevk> within a shell script
  433. # [15:57] <darobin> does the script fail when invoked directly, or only under cron?
  434. # [15:57] <darobin> annevk: can you try using -o output-file.html instead of > ?
  435. # [15:58] <annevk> darobin: it doesn't necessarily fail, it just downloads no data
  436. # [15:58] <darobin> annevk: by fail I meant not do what you want
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  439. # [15:59] <annevk> -o doesn't make a difference
  440. # [15:59] <annevk> nothing in the error log
  441. # [15:59] <darobin> mmmmm
  442. # [15:59] <darobin> does that curl work with anything else?
  443. # [16:00] <zewt> even if you isolate it? not like there's any difference to curl...
  444. # [16:00] <darobin> can you maybe paste what you're using?
  445. # [16:00] <annevk> #!/bin/sh
  446. # [16:00] <annevk> echo "Content-type: text/plain"
  447. # [16:00] <annevk> echo ""
  448. # [16:00] <annevk> curl -k https://raw.github.com/whatwg/fetch/master/Overview.html > index.html
  449. # [16:00] <annevk> echo "teehee"
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  453. # [16:01] <Domenic_> i think you need -l to follow redirects
  454. # [16:01] <Domenic_> raw.github.com redirects these days
  455. # [16:01] <annevk> running curl outside the shell script works fine
  456. # [16:01] <Domenic_> sorry -L
  457. # [16:02] <Domenic_> i am surprised that it works outside. but unsurprised that it fails inside.
  458. # [16:02] <zewt> that curl (without -k) works fine for me
  459. # [16:03] <zewt> there's no redirect
  460. # [16:03] <annevk> adding -L helps
  461. # [16:03] <zewt> (with the githubusercontent URL earlier)
  462. # [16:04] <zewt> err, confused--the url you pasted in that script != the well fuck URL
  463. # [16:04] <annevk> yup
  464. # [16:04] <annevk> I wonder what is stable these days
  465. # [16:04] <Domenic_> it's frustrating they didn't have a switchover period
  466. # [16:05] <zewt> seems like a bug that curl doesn't follow redirects by default
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  470. # [16:10] <annevk> arv: thanks fixed
  471. # [16:10] <annevk> Domenic_: looks like they changed URLs twice already
  472. # [16:10] <arv> Thanks annevk
  473. # [16:10] <annevk> Domenic_: some of my scripts had -L and are fetching from github.com and not raw.github.com
  474. # [16:10] <Domenic_> ah yeah back in the day
  475. # [16:10] <annevk> I added -L, removed -k as that seems bad, and have not updated URLs; I should probably write a more generic script to handle all this at some point
  476. # [16:11] <zewt> were you expecting a stable web api D:
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  478. # [16:12] <annevk> My experience writing web services is generally bad
  479. # [16:12] <annevk> And I'm doing the most trivial of things
  480. # [16:23] <annevk> MikeSmith: autocomplete for cc list is awesome, thanks for adding
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  482. # [16:27] <annevk> foolip: hey, yt?
  483. # [16:27] <annevk> foolip: are you still maintaining the splitter script?
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  485. # [16:29] <annevk> Okay, so I think the fix is to replace .//*[@class="head"] with something that does subscring matching
  486. # [16:29] <annevk> XPath has no support for classes so...
  487. # [16:30] <annevk> Hmm [tokenize(@class,'\s+')='atag']
  488. # [16:30] <annevk> But that's XPath 2.0
  489. # [16:31] <annevk> Otherwise contains(@class,'atag') which has obvious flaws but might be good enough
  490. # [16:33] <annevk> contains() is not even supported here
  491. # [16:33] <annevk> LOL standards
  492. # [16:35] <jgraham> Which XPath lib are you using?
  493. # [16:35] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  494. # [16:35] <annevk> I have no idea
  495. # [16:36] <annevk> I'm trying to debug this over ssh in nano :/
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  497. # [16:37] <annevk> jgraham: etree?
  498. # [16:39] <annevk> jgraham: https://docs.python.org/2/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html#xml.etree.ElementTree.Element.find afaict
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  500. # [16:42] <jgraham> annevk: Element.find != xpath
  501. # [16:42] <jgraham> It's like a very crappy sub-xpath thing
  502. # [16:42] <annevk> jgraham: https://code.google.com/p/html5/source/browse/trunk/spec-splitter/spec-splitter.py#94 I see
  503. # [16:43] <annevk> I'll repeat: LOL standards
  504. # [16:43] <jgraham> annevk: You should be able to use .xpath I think
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  506. # [16:44] <jgraham> http://lxml.de/xpathxslt.html#xpath
  507. # [16:45] <foolip> annevk: oh hi
  508. # [16:45] <jgraham> http://xmlsoft.org/html/libxml-xpathInternals.html should tell you which functions are implemented
  509. # [16:45] <foolip> annevk: I guess I don't, I haven't had cause to fiddle with it
  510. # [16:46] <annevk> jgraham: I replaced it with //header
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  512. # [16:46] <annevk> jgraham: seems to work
  513. # [16:47] <jgraham> OK
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  515. # [16:48] <annevk> MikeSmith: do you have interest in moving spec-splitter to github.com?
  516. # [16:48] <annevk> Hixie: are you planning on rewriting the spec-splitter?
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  521. # [16:56] <annevk> foolip: ok, thanks
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  530. # [17:23] <annevk> Maybe we should call it "unicodelatin1"
  531. # [17:23] <annevk> Unicode actually calls that block Latin-1 Supplement, so not too far off
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  535. # [17:29] <SimonSapin> annevk: fwiw, cssselect implements class selectors as [@class and contains(concat(' ', normalize-space(@class), ' '), 'head')]
  536. # [17:30] <annevk> SimonSapin: you don't have XPath 2.0?
  537. # [17:31] <SimonSapin> nope
  538. # [17:31] <SimonSapin> 1.0
  539. # [17:31] <SimonSapin> that’s what libxml2 (used by lxml) implements
  540. # [17:31] <annevk> you should do ' head ', no?
  541. # [17:32] <SimonSapin> ah, yes
  542. # [17:32] <annevk> XPath is weird
  543. # [17:32] <SimonSapin> https://github.com/SimonSapin/cssselect/blob/master/cssselect/xpath.py#L532-L534
  544. # [17:32] <SimonSapin> translating Selectors to XPath is an horrible, horrible idea
  545. # [17:33] <annevk> I think I can agree to that without having attempted it
  546. # [17:33] <SimonSapin> and does not actually work (some Selectors are impossible to express in XPath AFAICT.)
  547. # [17:34] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  548. # [17:34] <annevk> Well everything that requires observing state would require some newer form of XPath that allows custom functions
  549. # [17:34] <SimonSapin> observing state?
  550. # [17:35] <annevk> :hover
  551. # [17:35] <jgraham> XPath does allow custom functions, no?
  552. # [17:35] <jgraham> Or is that only XPath 2?
  553. # [17:35] <SimonSapin> Yeah, no. Don’t even go down that road.
  554. # [17:36] <jgraham> Which road? The custom functions road?
  555. # [17:36] <SimonSapin> :hover just never matches in cssselect
  556. # [17:36] <jgraham> Or :hover?
  557. # [17:36] <MikeSmith> annevk: yeah we should move the splitter source to github
  558. # [17:36] <SimonSapin> jgraham: implementing :hover in XPath
  559. # [17:36] <jgraham> Right, that would be weird
  560. # [17:36] <jgraham> It depends on a non-obsevable bit that can't be set in most implementations
  561. # [17:36] <annevk> MikeSmith: if you still have that Google repo locally, might be worth deleting the stuff we already moved, to make it more clear it's no longer being maintained there
  562. # [17:37] <MikeSmith> annevk: ok
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  566. # [17:39] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
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  579. # [17:49] <JonathanNeal> Hixie: are alts not being respected in document outline for things like <h1><img alt="Title" src="path/to/image.jpg"></h1> ?
  580. # [17:50] <Domenic_> Oooh good question
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  584. # [17:56] <jgraham> JonathanNeal: The spec doesn't say anything about that
  585. # [17:56] <jgraham> the spec says that the <h1> element is the heading element for that section
  586. # [17:56] <jgraham> It doesn't say how to extract the text content of the heading, afaict
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  589. # [17:59] <JonathanNeal> Okay, was told there might be an issue, which is why I asked. So, when a heading contains <img alt="Title">, what do browsers do with the <img> presently? What (if any) document tells them to use the alt attribute?
  590. # [18:01] <SteveF> JonathonNeal: browsers don't do anything, javascript implementations and http://validator.w3.org/nu/ don't pick up the alt text
  591. # [18:01] <jgraham> As far as I know there isn't any document that tells them to use alt. Or to use the .textContent of the heading
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  593. # [18:01] <jgraham> SteveF: Seems like a good time to submit some PRs
  594. # [18:01] <annevk> JonathanNeal: you should probably file a bug, I think there's an XXX marker in the specification close to the definition "text content" but I might misremember
  595. # [18:01] <SteveF> example http://validator.w3.org/nu/?showoutline=yes&doc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.apple.com%2Fiphone%2Faccessories%2F
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  597. # [18:02] <SteveF> jgraham: raise a bug more likely
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  600. # [18:05] <SteveF> jgraham: "As far as I know there isn't any document that tells them to use alt. Or to use the .textContent of the heading" right, which is suboptimal
  601. # [18:05] <JonathanNeal> annevk: thanks. This is probably my first time filing a bug, so I apologize for its messiness https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25493
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  605. # [18:11] <annevk> Domenic_: if JavaScript had immutable arrays, people would use them
  606. # [18:12] <Domenic_> annevk: maybe. maybe not.
  607. # [18:12] <Domenic_> the language is *so* mutable
  608. # [18:12] <Domenic_> tbh I think frozen arrays are cool but I am mostly echoing wycats___ and dherman.
  609. # [18:12] <jgraham> FWIW it looks like the right patch in validator.nu is to add a switch in https://github.com/validator/validator/blob/master/src/nu/validator/servlet/OutlineBuildingXMLReaderWrapper.java#L427 that checks inElement and in case HEADING_CONTENT_ELEMENT checks for a HTML img element with a alt attribute and, if one exists, adds its characters to currentSection.getHeadingTextBuilder()
  610. # [18:13] <Domenic_> and i see their point about frozen sucking in general and so the fact that it works by accident on arrays not meaning we should use it.
  611. # [18:13] <annevk> Well, I agree that frozen is weird
  612. # [18:14] <annevk> I wonder if Event.path is always a set
  613. # [18:14] <annevk> Or if shadow DOM makes it a graph, I guess it's still a set
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  615. # [18:15] <zewt> python has immutable arrays (tuples), but the only reason I really use them is convention
  616. # [18:16] <zewt> (i think they're faster to create too, but i rarely write python for performance)
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  621. # [18:21] <MikeSmith> jgraham: yeah that sounds right
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  629. # [18:37] <annevk> So the main problem with the current request concept setup is that there's a bunch of it describing a request, and there's a bunch of it that is processing input to build up more of the request
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  631. # [18:38] <annevk> E.g. "author headers" is input for modifying the headers of a request per a given set of rules
  632. # [18:38] <Domenic_> TabAtkins: haha wow that old grid spec exceeded my expectations when I read "barely translated C++ code"
  633. # [18:39] <TabAtkins> Now imagine fantasai and I poring over it for two hours, scribbling notes on a whiteboard next to us, then each of going to separate desks to translate it into our own words, so that later we can compare algos and make sure we got things right.
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  636. # [18:43] <TabAtkins> Domenic_: You can still see the intermediate state of the more complicated part of the algo at http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-grid/#translated-algo , where I tried a more direct translation into English while fantasai tried a more idiomatic translation (which turned out to be wrong in several details, which is why we did separate passes).
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  654. # [19:43] <annevk> wycats___: feel like we've gone full circle, nobody is surprised I think
  655. # [19:43] <annevk> wycats___: just annoyed
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  676. # [20:21] <annevk> TabAtkins: you're hilarious
  677. # [20:21] <annevk> https://twitter.com/tabatkins/status/460840981185581056
  678. # [20:21] <TabAtkins> ^_^
  679. # [20:22] <Domenic_> I really liked https://twitter.com/tabatkins/status/460839870995263488
  680. # [20:23] <annevk> heh
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  682. # [20:25] <Domenic_> Do CGs get the same patent commitments as e.g. webapps? Seems doubtful.
  683. # [20:25] * Quits: barnabywalters (~barnabywa@89.17.128.127) (Quit: barnabywalters)
  684. # [20:26] <TabAtkins> When you publish a FSD, you get sign-offs from everyone in the CG, and that's equivalent in power to the sign-offs we get by default when publishing through normal W3C process.
  685. # [20:26] <Domenic_> so if the CG membership was as large as webapps then it would be equivalent.
  686. # [20:27] <annevk> The main problem is that CG is opt-in and WGs are opt-out
  687. # [20:27] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
  688. # [20:27] <annevk> Note though that none of the plagiarized work made it to REC and so none of it is protected
  689. # [20:28] <Domenic_> Yeah.
  690. # [20:28] <Domenic_> That's the worst part.
  691. # [20:32] <annevk> I think I got more Twitter notifications in the past hour than in the rest of the year
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  732. # [22:00] <estellevw> question on http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/states-of-the-type-attribute.html#range-state-(type=range) - multiple attribute.
  733. # [22:00] <estellevw> example code
  734. # [22:00] <estellevw> <input type=range min=0 max=24 value=0,24 step=1.0 ...
  735. # [22:00] <estellevw> oninput="o1.value = valueLow + ':00'; o2.value = valueHigh + ':00'">
  736. # [22:00] <estellevw> doesn't have the multiple attribute set
  737. # [22:00] <estellevw> is it necessary to include multiple, or does the comma in the value suffice
  738. # [22:00] <estellevw> ?
  739. # [22:01] <Domenic_> good question...
  740. # [22:01] <estellevw> also, any implementers?
  741. # [22:01] <Domenic_> looks like a spec bug on first glance
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  743. # [22:01] <annevk> estellevw: spec bug
  744. # [22:02] <annevk> estellevw: although it does say ... so you could assume multiple to be specified there...
  745. # [22:04] <estellevw> I did assume it was a spec example bug, but wanted to be sure.
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  752. # [22:26] <Ms2ger> "We will be having our scheduled DOM L3 Events call tomorrow (October 1st)."
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  756. # [22:32] -tomaw- [Global Notice] Hi all. Over the last few days we've noticed an increase in fake donation requests asking for donations in various digital currencies. Please not that freenode does not currently accept cash donations in any currency and anything sent to these scammers will not aide freenode in any way. Also, please see http://blog.freenode.net/2010/11/be-safe-out-there/
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  768. # [22:58] <Ms2ger> "I was going to make an XSLT markup joke, but then I remembered that Twitter only allows 140 characters."
  769. # [22:58] <Ms2ger> Eric Meyer++
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  771. # [23:04] <IZh> http://html5.validator.nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2F192.168.0.1%2F
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  773. # [23:05] <IZh> It seems that validator doesn't check for private networks.
  774. # [23:05] <IZh> It could be used to guess web-servers on nearby local PCs.
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  779. # [23:14] <IZh> http://html5.validator.nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Flocalhost%3A65536
  780. # [23:14] <IZh> Intetnal error.
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  797. # [23:38] <Hixie> annevk: eventually, but not any time soon
  798. # [23:41] <Hixie> zcorpan: top line goes into summary, second and subsequent lines into the comment, iirc
  799. # [23:57] <SamB_> er, as I understand it you need to leave a blank line after the summary
  800. # Session Close: Tue Apr 29 00:00:03 2014

The end :)