/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-05-03 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  9. # [00:10] <Hixie> gsnedders: fyi, the tokeniser tests don't check any of the script data states, or the cadatasection state
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  19. # [00:37] <zewt> dear firefox stop letting tabs steal focus with alert()
  20. # [00:38] <zewt> granted chrome is now even worse than firefox with modals, back in the dark ages
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  23. # [00:43] <zewt> wow, chrome alerts are even more broken than I knew
  24. # [00:44] <zewt> if one *window* has an alert open, focusing another browser window (not tab) lets me access that tab (if it's a different origin), but browser chrome is wedged (can't change tabs or access the address bar), and if I switch to another window that shares a context with the one with an alert open, the other browser window is completely frozen
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  75. # [03:05] <gsnedders> Hixie: yeah, I know individually the coverage is not great
  76. # [03:06] <gsnedders> Hixie: the sum of both the tokenizer and tree construction is good
  77. # [03:08] <gsnedders> (this is one of the things I want to fix this summer)
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  87. # [03:45] <Hixie> gsnedders: k
  88. # [03:46] <Hixie> gsnedders: i was just amused because i've been slowly writing code as each test fails, and then suddenly i was passing all the tokeniser tests, and i had like 15 "XXX" bits in my tokeniser still...
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  113. # [05:33] <Hixie> woah
  114. # [05:33] <Hixie> &#x20;<!DOCTYPE test>...
  115. # [05:33] <Hixie> i bet old UAs didn't parse that like we do now
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  117. # [05:34] <Hixie> i wonder how i can test that
  118. # [05:34] <Hixie> i haven't seen an old browser in years
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  120. # [05:42] <MikeSmith> Hixie: I seem to remember thet
  121. # [05:42] <MikeSmith> *there being some thing that let you test in Netscape 4
  122. # [05:42] * MikeSmith looks
  123. # [05:43] <Hixie> dunno how you'd even test that in n4
  124. # [05:44] <MikeSmith> http://virtuallyfun.superglobalmegacorp.com/?p=3866
  125. # [05:45] <MikeSmith> server-side thing, I guessーit just generates PNGs you can view
  126. # [05:45] <MikeSmith> anyway
  127. # [05:47] <MikeSmith> Hixie: I don't understand what's so exceptional about how &#x20;<!DOCTYPE test> gets parsed
  128. # [05:47] <MikeSmith> looking at the DOM for it I see pretty much what I'd expect
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  131. # [05:50] <Hixie> MikeSmith: it's invalid xml, for example.
  132. # [05:50] <Hixie> MikeSmith: no charrefs before the root element
  133. # [05:50] <MikeSmith> ok
  134. # [05:50] <MikeSmith> ah yeah
  135. # [05:51] <MikeSmith> in other news, I'm reading the statement "it is extremely rare in JavaScript to rely on checking a specific exception type" and wondering why that's true
  136. # [05:52] <MikeSmith> I mean I assume that's just stating common practice
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  138. # [05:52] <MikeSmith> that is, that web devs don't typically check for specific exceptions, something either just throws or it doesn't
  139. # [05:53] <MikeSmith> I guess
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  141. # [05:53] <zewt> well, because javascript as a language sucks at it, presumably
  142. # [05:53] <Hixie> doesn't really suck at that
  143. # [05:53] <Hixie> compared to other languages
  144. # [05:53] <Hixie> does it?
  145. # [05:53] <Hixie> i mean i guess some have special syntax for different handlers for different classes of exceptions
  146. # [05:53] <zewt> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Statements/try...catch didn't even know about the "var if condition" syntax, is that widely supported?
  147. # [05:54] <zewt> never seen it in code
  148. # [05:54] <MikeSmith> makes me wonder why we go to the trouble of defining specific exceptions if in practice nobody cares, or no code changes any behavior based on what the exception is
  149. # [05:54] <zewt> filtering exception handlers by class is exception handling 101, i've always found it bizarre that javascript has no syntax for it (but maybe the "if" syntax is meant for that)
  150. # [05:54] <Hixie> oh wow
  151. # [05:54] <Hixie> i didn't know about that either
  152. # [05:54] <zewt> trying it
  153. # [05:55] <Hixie> Note: This functionality is not part of the ECMAScript specification.
  154. # [05:55] <zewt> all that matters is whether it's implemented, heh
  155. # [05:55] <MikeSmith> so maybe people don't try to do it because they already know it doesn't work reliably? or the language doesn't provide what's needed for proper exception handling?
  156. # [05:55] <zewt> parse error in firefox
  157. # [05:56] <MikeSmith> s/language/platform
  158. # [05:56] <zewt> maybe because most day-to-day errors come via error events, rather than exceptions?
  159. # [05:56] <zewt> (since most code is still async in the UI thread, not worker stuff)
  160. # [05:57] <zewt> most exception handlers i can think of writing are just "catch all errors to log them to the server, because we don't really except to get any exceptions at all"
  161. # [05:57] <zewt> which is definitely unlike most other languages i work with
  162. # [05:57] <MikeSmith> zewt: I see, ok
  163. # [05:57] <MikeSmith> that makes sense
  164. # [05:57] <zewt> (platforms, rather)
  165. # [05:58] * MikeSmith wonders what Domenic_ would say
  166. # [05:58] <MikeSmith> I'm not an idiomatic JavaScript programmer
  167. # [05:58] <zewt> i know i write way more exception handlers in python than JS, in any case
  168. # [05:59] <zewt> and i'd go nuts if python didn't have class filtering
  169. # [05:59] <MikeSmith> well, for sure I write a ton in Java
  170. # [05:59] <MikeSmith> not that I'm proud of it
  171. # [05:59] <MikeSmith> that's just what Java forces on me
  172. # [05:59] <zewt> java shoves them down your throat, heh
  173. # [06:00] <zewt> i tend to make all of my exceptions unchecked in java to avoid that nonsense
  174. # [06:00] <MikeSmith> well for me it works well within the Java universe
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  176. # [06:01] <MikeSmith> e.g., the validator code is exception handling stacked on exception handling all over the place
  177. # [06:01] <MikeSmith> but I guess that's the nature of that particular app
  178. # [06:02] <MikeSmith> inherent in it, in that its entire purpose is to report errors of varying kinds
  179. # [06:02] <zewt> i find it's one of the many things that makes java a nightmarish, developer-hostile environment seemingly designed by academics with zero practical experience
  180. # [06:02] <zewt> (re: java is probably my single most hated language)
  181. # [06:02] <zewt> (combination of really terrible language + forced to use it for Android)
  182. # [06:03] <MikeSmith> to me it's more a fact of life I guess
  183. # [06:03] <MikeSmith> I suppose I should question it terribleness more
  184. # [06:03] <MikeSmith> but it's like trying to fix the government or something
  185. # [06:03] <zewt> i picture some college kid just being told by his CS201 prof "all errors should be declared explicitly and you should handle every error deliberately" going on to bake that nonsense into a langauge to force it on everyone else
  186. # [06:04] <zewt> also language
  187. # [06:04] <MikeSmith> oh well yeah
  188. # [06:04] <MikeSmith> it shouldn't set a precedent for anything else, that's for sure
  189. # [06:04] <MikeSmith> though I guess it unfortunately has
  190. # [06:05] <zewt> java should serve as a cautionary tale to other languages, and nothing more
  191. # [06:05] <zewt> heh
  192. # [06:07] <MikeSmith> but getting back to the platform, the vast majority of the failures in the DOM test suite apparently come down to implementations not throwing the exceptions that the spec says they should throw
  193. # [06:07] <MikeSmith> and I can say that holds true for some other parts of the web-platform-tests suite
  194. # [06:08] <MikeSmith> and those wrong-exception-type bugs tend to stick around for a long time without anybody caring enough to fix them
  195. # [06:09] <MikeSmith> I assume that's in part because webdevs don't complain about those bugs and demand they be fixed
  196. # [06:09] <MikeSmith> they're not pain points, in practice
  197. # [06:09] <zewt> i think separate exception types for "programming error"-class exceptions are probably less useful in general
  198. # [06:09] <MikeSmith> aok
  199. # [06:09] <MikeSmith> *ok
  200. # [06:09] <zewt> you don't usually try to catch different classes of programming errors, you just log them and fix the bug...
  201. # [06:10] <MikeSmith> I see
  202. # [06:10] <zewt> and i'm guessing, but DOM exceptions like "you tried to stick a node where it can't go" are probably programming errors?
  203. # [06:11] <zewt> s, s/you/i/ i guess heh
  204. # [06:11] <MikeSmith> I guess they are, yeah
  205. # [06:12] <MikeSmith> but honestly I guess I don't think about that much when I'm reviewing tests or writing them while reading the spec
  206. # [06:12] <MikeSmith> I guess I should
  207. # [06:12] <zewt> having them under a base class like python's RuntimeError might be useful (to distinguish them as programming errors), but finer than that I'm not sure
  208. # [06:13] <MikeSmith> yeah, that
  209. # [06:13] <MikeSmith> of course Java does things that way too, to a degree
  210. # [06:13] <zewt> well, Python's RuntimeError and Java's RuntimeError (RuntimeException? been a while, I forget) are different beasts
  211. # [06:14] <MikeSmith> ah OK
  212. # [06:14] <zewt> python's means (to my interpretation) "programming error", java's means "unchecked error that you don't have to declare in the exception specifier", right?
  213. # [06:14] <MikeSmith> yeah pretty much, as far as Java
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  223. # [06:15] * Quits: falken (uid20729@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xqayscmfdotubien) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  224. # [06:15] * Quits: JakeA (uid3836@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rbvgxrwdiqvskccm) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  225. # [06:15] * Quits: krit (sid15081@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tsigqgpieqwlvpjn) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  226. # [06:15] * Quits: wycats (sid79@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tmsmbdidwcljjcbz) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  227. # [06:15] * Quits: ianloic (sid372@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fsslwzhcynapspvv) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  228. # [06:15] * Quits: scottjehl___ (sid3055@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-svbotbnpiefljbmu) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  229. # [06:15] * Quits: abucur (sid19072@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xljxgtvujomtutmz) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  230. # [06:15] * Quits: matijs (sid2278@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-acsivlzilgcrjhee) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  231. # [06:15] * Quits: astearns (sid15080@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ynwesvcelnzrdwmp) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  232. # [06:15] * Quits: dfreedm (sid7859@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xpylfvpzcdvhhdtc) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  233. # [06:15] * Quits: remysharp (sid4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mytddhqljjrztmcy) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  234. # [06:15] * Quits: sgalineau (sid26595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vjjqtafjcdweuphq) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  235. # [06:15] * Quits: FerasM (sid28672@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gbseavxrltpljaqk) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  236. # [06:15] * Quits: frozenice (sid21176@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-clftusritwszktoi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  237. # [06:15] * Quits: amtiskaw (sid19262@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-afdoiuphaveancrb) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  238. # [06:15] * Quits: ojan (sid5519@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hwljvbjkemmhhtva) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  239. # [06:15] * Quits: tobie__ (sid5692@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hzyofphuadouwqzh) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  240. # [06:15] * Quits: JonathanNeal (sid5831@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zphwuuhfpilpxnyr) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  241. # [06:15] <zewt> netsplittin' like it's 1996
  242. # [06:16] * Quits: parshap (sid18846@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ctsfckrsfxjidvxa) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  243. # [06:16] * Quits: phuu (sid7721@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bglzixytxumuyfzy) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  244. # [06:16] * Quits: sangwhan (sid12645@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yarzulmhlzbsjzzh) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  245. # [06:16] * Quits: Domenic_ (sid10976@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sgmuxlqvgrtsaxcq) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  246. # [06:16] * Quits: cwilso (sid10206@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gcflbtzevmzkexer) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  247. # [06:16] * Quits: Rastus_Vernon (uid15187@wikimedia/Rastus-Vernon) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  248. # [06:16] * Quits: jkomoros_ (uid7860@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fhconmnkbsodsmlc) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  249. # [06:16] * Quits: abarth (sid5294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vwrarkfphxpfwbcy) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  250. # [06:16] * Quits: aklein (sid4454@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zqbiqstivwuxmqqr) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  251. # [06:16] * Quits: esprehn (sid10445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-radwvppbbfohkcef) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  252. # [06:16] * Quits: twisted` (sid6794@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lydjnhoiqflxykpy) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  253. # [06:16] * Quits: timeless (sid4015@firefox/developer/timeless) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  254. # [06:16] <zewt> oh, irccloud dying
  255. # [06:16] * Quits: rxgx (uid22483@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-opcxivcvwjfelidr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  256. # [06:16] * Quits: birtles (sid16523@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wovtyovjhfkfyqqn) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  257. # [06:16] * Quits: kcherkashin__ (sid25169@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ujqybmckqlkexdzp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  258. # [06:16] <zewt> amusing that you can tell who uses irccloud even with masked hostnames
  259. # [06:16] * Quits: hayato (sid20728@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mnifjgdwicdionpc) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  260. # [06:16] * Quits: cfq (sid18398@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-otviaopmixjcxvuc) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  261. # [06:16] * Quits: scheib (sid4467@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-unwhltoxcziikfjx) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  262. # [06:16] * Quits: cabanier (sid15093@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sakwpgerngujbpav) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  263. # [06:16] * Quits: morrita_ (uid16889@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-buivwwrioommgybf) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  264. # [06:16] <zewt> * timeless (sid4015@firefox/developer/timeless) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  265. # [06:16] * Quits: mathiasbynens (sid2247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dmcxjvhmhlgxbwhi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  266. # [06:17] * Quits: jorendorff (sid28423@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ahbqwcraaybxnelx) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  267. # [06:17] * Quits: TabAtkins (sid11559@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vhckwkidjolgpzfe) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  268. # [06:17] * Quits: Phae (sid455@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sxumlddgfktsbxvi) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  269. # [06:17] * Quits: mattur (sid16049@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tgpgkxqzemmzbdhr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  270. # [06:17] * Quits: daleharvey (sid513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tafjwkposmiywoin) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  271. # [06:17] * Quits: dglazkov (sid4270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-idhehwrkwzmzubde) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  272. # [06:17] * Quits: bterlson (sid23757@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oyqricqvsjngkava) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  273. # [06:17] * Quits: pamer (sid23807@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tdpiotfulfpmsfva) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  274. # [06:17] * Quits: emerson (sid27401@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pusvltkdckgrmdum) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  275. # [06:17] * Quits: slightlyoff (sid1768@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ywgzkqdcfjijvtvh) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  276. # [06:21] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  277. # [06:25] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  278. # [06:25] * Quits: Goplat (~goplat@reactos/developer/Goplat) (Remote host closed the connection)
  279. # [06:27] * Quits: aretecode (~aretecode@S01061859339e5f51.cc.shawcable.net) (Quit: Toodaloo)
  280. # [06:27] * Joins: Jarrod_ (~Jarrod_@pdpc/supporter/active/jarrod)
  281. # [06:31] * Joins: sgalineau_ (sid26595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aosckupdssrkgzux)
  282. # [06:31] * Joins: birtles_ (sid16523@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wqjcujnjlahxjcmf)
  283. # [06:31] * Joins: mattur_ (sid16049@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nfoupbwsfgbimjal)
  284. # [06:31] * Joins: tyoshino____ (sid19222@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tslvptgyzkiixrde)
  285. # [06:31] * Joins: morrita_ (uid16889@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zycbtsxubfpdsjxa)
  286. # [06:31] * Joins: pamer (sid23807@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uvvqnvkoabrukpvc)
  287. # [06:31] * Joins: amtiskaw_ (sid19262@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bboxldpqueuuvvdd)
  288. # [06:31] * Joins: frozenice (sid21176@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hrhetfdwwxmfnhvy)
  289. # [06:32] * Quits: Jarrod_ (~Jarrod_@pdpc/supporter/active/jarrod) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  290. # [06:32] * Joins: falken (uid20729@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xnuedzxnplwdpxxz)
  291. # [06:32] * Joins: jkomoros__ (uid7860@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eeqjrsxwkisstgdj)
  292. # [06:32] * Joins: hdv (sid2376@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zwhyplrthjlqkbyk)
  293. # [06:32] * Joins: cwilso_____ (sid10206@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ckthwxretgyctvke)
  294. # [06:32] * Joins: JakeA (uid3836@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jdgaozwylhovkohf)
  295. # [06:32] * Joins: ianloic (sid372@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wxguwxysdyuyufcu)
  296. # [06:32] * Joins: Domenic_ (sid10976@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-umetwuaghcpbjsva)
  297. # [06:32] * Joins: rxgx (uid22483@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-poncpndvsavlbrad)
  298. # [06:32] * Joins: emerson (sid27401@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aajyzkqeklcgsgdr)
  299. # [06:33] * Joins: parshap (sid18846@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oladegwttjwjgerc)
  300. # [06:34] * Joins: phuu (sid7721@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-opdzcyjhkhjrpylq)
  301. # [06:34] * Joins: arv_ (sid4269@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yxwbwhkiptcgsnwq)
  302. # [06:34] * Joins: jamesr_ (sid10481@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wclwvfquznbceids)
  303. # [06:34] * Joins: matijs (sid2278@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yjdvwfnzwzxldqsf)
  304. # [06:34] * Joins: remysharp (sid4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aqhyytsswtwhbpfb)
  305. # [06:34] * Joins: FerasM (sid28672@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-syuzrdftytmxhqow)
  306. # [06:34] * Joins: bterlson (sid23757@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qpxggjkkysmkmtth)
  307. # [06:34] * Joins: JonathanNeal (sid5831@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-orfiglcpfthpzvpw)
  308. # [06:34] * Joins: dglazkov (sid4270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hwszjpfculsxcbtk)
  309. # [06:34] * Joins: cfq (sid18398@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gleoygedalszhjxn)
  310. # [06:34] * Joins: hayato_gardening (sid20728@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-adhjumooagoehhpw)
  311. # [06:34] * Joins: sangwhan (sid12645@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eojjtbphovfnxqsx)
  312. # [06:34] * Joins: scottjehl___ (sid3055@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tzinoybofpsoyjmc)
  313. # [06:34] * Joins: astearns_ (sid15080@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gpwsvmlzujjjsyie)
  314. # [06:34] * Joins: jorendorff (sid28423@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ekcmkenteiwimhpx)
  315. # [06:34] * Joins: tobie___ (sid5692@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oarpgdwudlljeavm)
  316. # [06:34] * Joins: slightlyoff (sid1768@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xmkutzttvmfeybpc)
  317. # [06:34] * Joins: cabanier_ (sid15093@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ncxmymlutjrezwia)
  318. # [06:34] * Joins: tmfsd (sid26422@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-loplqmnbvzufiadl)
  319. # [06:35] * Joins: Phae (sid455@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iqilhdkkscpysprc)
  320. # [06:35] * Joins: kcherkashin__ (sid25169@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zqzjpnxnlctexija)
  321. # [06:35] * Joins: timeless (sid4015@firefox/developer/timeless)
  322. # [06:36] * Joins: krit (sid15081@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tqxtlasmkkwjbepf)
  323. # [06:36] * Joins: daleharvey_ (sid513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qyyqofomkgxtfczb)
  324. # [06:36] * Joins: esprehn (sid10445@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dnijchizrroualhr)
  325. # [06:36] * Joins: aklein (sid4454@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ogalbhxgqlxqcgba)
  326. # [06:36] * Joins: TabAtkins (sid11559@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uaaajdxddnajfwpj)
  327. # [06:36] * Joins: scheib (sid4467@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vdeqayzpbamnweur)
  328. # [06:36] * Joins: cbiesinger (sid8099@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-epyhxznfkgkdvibh)
  329. # [06:36] * Joins: abarth (sid5294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zfrweebqmothwvpw)
  330. # [06:36] * Joins: dfreedm (sid7859@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qoyjupnedlrcpnxz)
  331. # [06:37] * Joins: mathiasbynens (sid2247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-byefyvkwlzbkrrkd)
  332. # [06:38] * Joins: th2389 (uid27360@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cvsdcxlkigrovaqn)
  333. # [06:39] * Joins: abucur (sid19072@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lmdxcxtrppugkcgs)
  334. # [06:39] * Joins: mvujovic (sid13458@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ioveozutujucgrha)
  335. # [06:39] * Joins: pdr (sid7901@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-spsqukouftpgewrg)
  336. # [06:40] * Joins: ojan_away (sid5519@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jczseikfnhanuhxn)
  337. # [06:41] * cabanier_ is now known as cabanier
  338. # [06:42] * Joins: wycats___ (sid79@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ovifusctybmbkwdk)
  339. # [06:43] * Joins: Rastus_Vernon (uid15187@wikimedia/Rastus-Vernon)
  340. # [06:44] * Joins: twisted` (sid6794@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ipeobymkhgwudpwd)
  341. # [06:47] * Quits: morrita_ (uid16889@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zycbtsxubfpdsjxa) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  342. # [07:00] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@220.225.242.27)
  343. # [07:14] * Quits: jernoble_ (~jernoble@17.202.46.221) (Remote host closed the connection)
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  346. # [07:26] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  347. # [07:29] * Quits: Guest83009 (~chatzilla@151.244.243.105) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 28.0/20140317233501])
  348. # [07:31] * Joins: jeffreyatw (~jeffreyat@50-1-116-191.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
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  356. # [08:06] * Quits: Rastus_Vernon (uid15187@wikimedia/Rastus-Vernon) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  357. # [08:08] * Quits: sangwhan (sid12645@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eojjtbphovfnxqsx) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  358. # [08:08] * Quits: wycats___ (sid79@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ovifusctybmbkwdk) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  359. # [08:08] * Quits: scottjehl___ (sid3055@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tzinoybofpsoyjmc) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  360. # [08:08] * Quits: ojan_away (sid5519@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jczseikfnhanuhxn) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  361. # [08:08] * Quits: timeless (sid4015@firefox/developer/timeless) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  362. # [08:08] * Quits: abarth (sid5294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zfrweebqmothwvpw) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  363. # [08:08] * Quits: dfreedm (sid7859@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qoyjupnedlrcpnxz) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  364. # [08:08] * Quits: twisted` (sid6794@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ipeobymkhgwudpwd) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  365. # [08:08] * Quits: FerasM (sid28672@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-syuzrdftytmxhqow) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  366. # [08:09] * Quits: cfq (sid18398@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gleoygedalszhjxn) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  367. # [08:09] * Quits: mathiasbynens (sid2247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-byefyvkwlzbkrrkd) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  368. # [08:09] * Joins: scottjehl___ (sid3055@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-joyeffnetixsftkl)
  369. # [08:10] * Joins: abarth (sid5294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kqbvzssbjykprgvr)
  370. # [08:10] * Joins: ojan_away (sid5519@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hsyxfzzsbkmerpjo)
  371. # [08:10] * Joins: dfreedm (sid7859@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ewumvvexfqbximnp)
  372. # [08:11] * Joins: sangwhan (sid12645@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rakvwoviiqbstrgr)
  373. # [08:11] * Joins: FerasM (sid28672@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tkrxpzlkuvgxwikb)
  374. # [08:12] * Joins: cfq (sid18398@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-trslecmahqzsyvbb)
  375. # [08:12] * Joins: wycats___ (sid79@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bxrslojvcgjusvuc)
  376. # [08:13] * Joins: mathiasbynens (sid2247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-imghfaacafrutfaw)
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  379. # [08:17] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@host31-51-172-114.range31-51.btcentralplus.com)
  380. # [08:20] * Quits: hayato_gardening (sid20728@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-adhjumooagoehhpw) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  381. # [08:20] * Quits: TabAtkins (sid11559@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uaaajdxddnajfwpj) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  382. # [08:20] * Joins: hayato_gardening (sid20728@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ovqfnlgkxvjxsntl)
  383. # [08:20] * Quits: bterlson (sid23757@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qpxggjkkysmkmtth) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  384. # [08:20] * Joins: TabAtkins (sid11559@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ylmvnvkpcvvyrblk)
  385. # [08:20] * Quits: JonathanNeal (sid5831@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-orfiglcpfthpzvpw) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  386. # [08:20] * Quits: scheib (sid4467@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vdeqayzpbamnweur) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  387. # [08:20] * Quits: aklein (sid4454@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ogalbhxgqlxqcgba) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  388. # [08:21] * Joins: bterlson (sid23757@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nmnniiyyvexncoky)
  389. # [08:21] * Quits: Jarrod_ (~Jarrod_@pdpc/supporter/active/jarrod) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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  528. # [12:44] <jgraham> Hixie: Specifically it's because those tokenizer states postdate Philip` generating a huge number of tokenizer tests
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  625. # [20:06] <Domenic_> the `if` syntax in `catch` is a Mozilla-specific extension. MDN is not very clear on these sorts of things.
  626. # [20:06] <Domenic_> JS developers do rarely filter exception types, but IMO this is because most exceptions they deal with that could be recovered from result from async ops. (E.g., network failures, permission errors, ...)
  627. # [20:07] <Domenic_> I am hopeful that ES will grow better exception-filtering syntax; in the meantime, `promise.catch(e => { if (e.name !== "NetworkError") { throw e; } /* recover from e */ })` will work OK
  628. # [20:08] <Domenic_> or `try { result = await promise; } catch (e) { if (e.name !== "NetworkError") { throw e; } /* recover from e */ }` with await syntax
  629. # [20:08] <Domenic_> Related es-discuss thread http://esdiscuss.org/topic/try-catch-conditional-exceptions-in-light-of-generators
  630. # [20:08] <zewt> that syntax needs to be shot into the sun
  631. # [20:09] <Domenic_> also http://esdiscuss.org/topic/error-objects-in-w3c-apis
  632. # [20:09] <Domenic_> zewt: which syntax?
  633. # [20:09] <zewt> "e => {"
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  636. # [20:11] <Ms2ger> I sure am glad we don't shoot everything zewt dislikes into the sun
  637. # [20:11] <Domenic_> lol yes, arrow functions are <3
  638. # [20:11] <zewt> completely unobvious syntax
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  649. # [21:17] <odinho> Throwing the wrong kind of exception is less worse than throwing no exception at all.
  650. # [21:21] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  651. # [21:23] <jgraham> Yeah, but it's rather hard to codify the badness of failures in tests. And it's only considered acceptable because people have learnt not to depend on it
  652. # [21:23] <jgraham> If javascript wasn't a bit rubbish, it would be quite important
  653. # [21:24] <zewt> not sure about that; the APIs tend to depend on people catching exceptions much less, too (at least the async versions)
  654. # [21:24] <zewt> (less than APIs in most other platforms)
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  670. # [22:41] <IZh> Hi. Why no UNIX timestamp support in datetime fields? It is easier to parse.
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  690. # [23:54] <foolip> Hixie: I was mistaken, the parser doesn't set the attributes one by one, it has them all ready and sets them after creating the element. It was after that point I tried adding a hook that showed up in performance tests.
  691. # [23:57] <foolip> maybe there is some trick I could use to make Blink match the spec, but it would be a special-case, since almost everywhere parser-set and script-set attributes are handled in the same code path, which is nice.
  692. # [23:58] <foolip> how hard I try to find that trick depends on how much you hate any of the alternatives that don't have a special case
  693. # Session Close: Sun May 04 00:00:00 2014

The end :)