/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-05-09 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri May 09 00:00:01 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  5. # [00:04] <arunranga> does %3A vs : make that big a difference? Maybe only for clarity.
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  7. # [00:06] <sicking> arunranga: I don't know. I suspect that it doesn't make a big difference but we should check if it matter parsing-wise
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  9. # [00:07] <arunranga> OK
  10. # [00:07] <arunranga> the filesystem:http://dot.com/foo system is more legible, and I have a slight preference for it
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  16. # [00:28] <zewt> it would need to work for the pattern abarth gave above, and if it needs to work anyway, may as well output it too?
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  56. # [01:38] <caitp> who wants to clarify something for me so that I don't have to dig through specs to find an answer?
  57. # [01:39] <caitp> is a worker supposed to resolve urls from the same base as the context which created the worker, or does it have its own base based on its url
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  134. # [04:50] <MikeSmith> Hixie: here now, if you can remember what you had pinged me about
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  143. # [05:11] <Hixie> MikeSmith: could you create an "HTML - <img>" component in Bugzilla, with simonp@opera.com as the default assignee, auto cc ian@hixie.ch?
  144. # [05:11] <MikeSmith> yup
  145. # [05:11] <Hixie> thanks!
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  148. # [05:16] <MikeSmith> Hixie: OK done
  149. # [05:16] <MikeSmith> Hixie: I i
  150. # [05:16] <Hixie> thanks!
  151. # [05:17] <MikeSmith> I like the new tilted notes/warnings thing
  152. # [05:17] <MikeSmith> when did you change that?
  153. # [05:17] <Hixie> few days ago
  154. # [05:18] <Hixie> glad you like it :-)
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  218. # [08:53] <anvaka> i'm curious. If html was invented today, how would it look like?
  219. # [08:55] <anvaka> would it be still xml-like? or maybe json? or maybe something totally different?
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  233. # [09:19] <MikeSmith> tyoshino____: should we just replace the content at https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/streams-api/ with a pointer to https://github.com/whatwg/streams ?
  234. # [09:20] <tyoshino____> it includes a link to WHATWG one
  235. # [09:20] <tyoshino____> though it's not easy to find
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  239. # [09:27] <tyoshino____> Status of This Document
  240. # [09:27] <tyoshino____> ...
  241. # [09:27] <tyoshino____> The core primitives of the Streams API is now being developped at WHATWG GitHub repository. Please join us to finalize the core primitives. Once it's done, it's planned to be ported to here and extended to meet requirements specific to browser environment.
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  244. # [09:34] <MikeSmith> tyoshino____: OK
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  273. # [11:55] <tobie> jungkees: what's the policy for merging changes in the SW repo?
  274. # [11:59] <jungkees> For the web spec, you can make PR then Alex any myself will merge that
  275. # [12:01] <jungkees> tobie: for other part of the resources, there are quite a few contributors who have the rights I guess
  276. # [12:02] <tobie> jungkees: I have commit rights--just wanted to do the right thing. :)
  277. # [12:02] <jungkees> tobie: I see :-)
  278. # [12:02] <tobie> shouldn't the canonical spec be on the gh-pages branch, btw?
  279. # [12:02] <tobie> And not in the master branch?
  280. # [12:02] <jungkees> It already is
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  282. # [12:03] <tobie> oh, is there a cron-job somewhere automatically copying things over?
  283. # [12:03] <jungkees> tobie: but basically we are rebasing gh-pages based off of master
  284. # [12:03] <jungkees> tobie: so please make changes in the master branch
  285. # [12:04] <jungkees> tobie: I don't think there is any automatic stuff
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  287. # [12:05] <tobie> jungkees: setting up gh-pages that way would have the advantage that when a pull request is merged, the published spec is automatically up to date.
  288. # [12:06] <tobie> Right now it's not.
  289. # [12:06] <jungkees> tobie: I don't the how to; do you have any pointers that I can refer to?
  290. # [12:07] <tobie> I do: http://tobie.github.io/specs-on-github/
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  292. # [12:07] <jungkees> tobie: thanks
  293. # [12:08] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  294. # [12:08] <tobie> jungkees: happy to make a PR for your consideration.
  295. # [12:08] <jungkees> tobie: thanks tobie!
  296. # [12:10] <tobie> jungkees: mind merging https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/pull/265 first?
  297. # [12:11] <jungkees> tobie: For web-spec-framework part of it, I would like for Alex to review
  298. # [12:11] <jungkees> tobie: thinks he's recovering from surgery now..
  299. # [12:12] <tobie> Oh. Wasn't aware.
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  303. # [12:31] <tobie> jungkees: opened a ticket here: https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/issues/266
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  305. # [12:34] <jgraham> MikeSmith: yt? Do you have a naming scheme for conformance checker tests? /conformance-checkers/html-aria/roles-properties-supported-inherited/roles-properties-supported-inherited-progressbar-aria-valuetext-Test-string-value.html
  306. # [12:34] <jgraham> is longer than 150 characters
  307. # [12:34] <jgraham> Which I'm trying to set as the limit for windows compat (sigh)
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  320. # [12:56] <jgraham> Does anyone who isn't MikeSmith know how the conformance checker test naming scheme works?
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  324. # [13:03] <MikeSmith> jgraham: ARIA test are imported. I didn't name them. but I can rename them if need. and rename any others. there's not any consistent naming conventions that must be followed there. my test harness doesn't care about the names.
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  329. # [13:06] <jgraham> MikeSmith: OK. Could we maybe remove the duplication of having rols-properties-supported-inherited in both the directory name and the test title?
  330. # [13:06] <jgraham> *roles
  331. # [13:07] <jgraham> s/test title/file name/
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  335. # [13:11] <MikeSmith> jgraham: sure. I'll change them today
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  337. # [13:17] <jgraham> MikeSmith: https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/8c72c580?review=1516 is my attempt. Changes enough to meet the length limits, but not everything systematically
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  348. # [13:47] <MikeSmith> jgraham: r+ed that part of the review
  349. # [13:48] <MikeSmith> btw it would be nice if critic indicated that files had been renamed, the way git log does and the github view does
  350. # [13:48] <MikeSmith> instead of just showing added and removed
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  352. # [13:51] <jgraham> MikeSmith: Yeah :(
  353. # [13:54] * MikeSmith finds http://lint.travis-ci.org/
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  357. # [13:56] <sangwhan> MikeSmith: have you tried the shortcut "m"?
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  371. # [13:58] <sangwhan> MikeSmith: that will do a second pass scan for renamed/moved files
  372. # [14:00] <sangwhan> on directories with lots of very similar files it might trip though
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  379. # [14:18] <MikeSmith> sangwhan: oh cool
  380. # [14:18] <MikeSmith> hadn't tried that
  381. # [14:19] <MikeSmith> yeah in this case though it does seem to trip up
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  420. # [15:38] <zewt> git seems do renames heuristically too, for some reason
  421. # [15:39] <zewt> whenever i add a new file that looks like an old one and delete the old one, it shows up in git status (while i'm staging) as a move and change instead of an add and delete (which is really annoying)
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  427. # [15:59] <odinho> zewt: that's the way it figures out renames. It only tracks content, not metadata like that.
  428. # [15:59] <odinho> zewt: Do separate commits if you like.
  429. # [16:00] <Ms2ger> But git is superior to hg, because tools can always figure out file moves perfectly after the fact, without any metadata!
  430. # [16:00] <odinho> (renames are just delete+add in git anyway, no difference between it, -- the rename is just syntactical sugar to help show what is going on)
  431. # [16:01] <zewt> yeah, it's pretty lame
  432. # [16:01] <jgraham> Oddly enough git is superior to hg because it has a better cli
  433. # [16:01] <odinho> And better model.
  434. # [16:01] <jgraham> If you don't believe me, try using mercurial bookmarks for a a while
  435. # [16:02] <odinho> Since hg's is mindfuck :)
  436. # [16:02] <Ms2ger> Git has a better cli?
  437. # [16:02] * Ms2ger is baffled
  438. # [16:02] <jgraham> Yeah, it does help that it's possible to actually understand how git works without having to read the source
  439. # [16:02] <Ms2ger> ... You're joking, right?
  440. # [16:02] <jgraham> Ms2ger: I agree this is not the conventional wisdom
  441. # [16:03] <zewt> with git you just have to read the whole internet instead
  442. # [16:03] <jgraham> (about the cli, not about the model)
  443. # [16:03] <odinho> Is it not the conventional wisdom? I've tried and failed to understand hg for weeks and weeks when I had to use it.
  444. # [16:03] <odinho> It was horrible. -- Git on the other hand had some explainers of the model that was immediately obvious to me.
  445. # [16:04] <mark06> odinho: how does the diff looks like for a "renamed" file?
  446. # [16:04] <Ms2ger> odinho, I guess it's hard if you're used to git
  447. # [16:04] <jgraham> Conventional wisdom: git has a terrible cli but a simple model once you understand it. Reality: hg and git both have rough edges in their cli but only hg actively tries to prevent you from doing useful things. The hg model seems to be more complex than the git one and isn't really documented.
  448. # [16:04] <Ms2ger> And if you try to force git habits onto hg
  449. # [16:05] <mark06> zewt: looks like how exactly? you added a file with similar content next to old, deleted file or with same path?
  450. # [16:05] <Ms2ger> The reality is that git's is full of rough edges; in hg you have to opt in to them
  451. # [16:05] <Ms2ger> Example: git pull
  452. # [16:05] <jgraham> Ms2ger: FWIW the "hg community" now seems to believe that mq is a terrible idea and that git-style local branches are good.
  453. # [16:06] <zewt> mark06: the usual case where i hit it in practice is when i'm updating an external SDK, where i'll extract foo-1.2.3, delete the old foo-1.2.2 and update a symlink
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  456. # [16:06] <zewt> i know what's happening, of course
  457. # [16:06] <Ms2ger> Well, the "hg community" isn't necessarily right, of course
  458. # [16:06] <Ms2ger> Anyway
  459. # [16:07] <jgraham> But in this case they have a point because mq defeats the whole point of a vcs unless you add a second vcs on top of the first
  460. # [16:07] <zewt> i guess if i was updating it in-place the magic-renaming thing would be better
  461. # [16:07] <jgraham> Also, re: no one understanding the model; Mozilla's Try server effectively becomes unusuable after too many people have pushed to it and no one seems to know why
  462. # [16:08] <jgraham> So the solution is "reset it every so often"
  463. # [16:08] <zewt> jgraham: future
  464. # [16:08] <jgraham> Which is laughable
  465. # [16:08] <Ms2ger> Sure
  466. # [16:09] <Ms2ger> Tryserver is an abuse of hg anyway
  467. # [16:09] <jgraham> Why?
  468. # [16:09] <jgraham> It seems like a totally legitimate use case
  469. # [16:10] <mark06> I find that web interface for hg very counterintuitive, and I saw a doc once on how to set up a mail-on-commit hook... I guess implementing an smtp server from scratch would be easier... I don't know git but it seems counterintuitive too... I use bzr, doesn't hurt me
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  471. # [16:10] <jgraham> I don't know how try actually works but conceptually the model is just "create a remote branch"
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  473. # [16:11] <mark06> zewt: if the symlink is versioned, isn't that just right? in fact it has changed
  474. # [16:11] <zewt> no, it shows "foo-1.2.3/main.c renamed to foo-1.2.4/main.c, ..."
  475. # [16:12] <zewt> afk
  476. # [16:14] <mark06> odd, I'd expect it not following the symlink
  477. # [16:16] <jgraham> (hg does have some nice features. And I think that changeset evolution could be a good thing, although it remains to be seen if it works well)
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  479. # [16:19] <sangwhan> fwiw, hg has more sane defaults than git - git's defaults are very weird and do stuff completely unexpected. (see: git pull)
  480. # [16:20] <odinho> pull is created for pull-based workflows. But very few seem to use that. Except Linux kernel.
  481. # [16:20] <sangwhan> and git's windows support is very laughable
  482. # [16:21] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  483. # [16:21] <odinho> Git could work much better on Windows if someone who loved Windows would do an implementation though :)
  484. # [16:23] <jgraham> Aren't Microsoft using git these days (for some of their open source stuff)? Seems like it could get better if that's the case.
  485. # [16:23] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  486. # [16:23] <davve> jgraham: They're using libgit2 at least.
  487. # [16:23] <odinho> It is getting better. Because many things are stupid. Like msysgit shipping severely outdated openssh which has serious performance issues.
  488. # [16:26] <sangwhan> Not sure. Some features in git are implemented as shell script after all, and IIRC a significant amount of native has only a posix implementation. (Hence msys.)
  489. # [16:26] * sangwhan might be incorrect, it's been several years since I checked
  490. # [16:27] <mark06> odinho: not also the heartbleed breach?
  491. # [16:27] <sangwhan> mark06: openssh shouldn't be affected by heartbleed?
  492. # [16:27] <odinho> mark06: not used as server, -- only client for downloading git repos etc.
  493. # [16:27] <zewt> mark06: symlink doesn't enter into it, it's just a file
  494. # [16:28] <odinho> plus what sangwhan said. that's openssl
  495. # [16:28] <zewt> git rm -rf foo-1.2.3; tar zxvf ~/foo-1.2.4.tar.gz; git add foo-1.2.4; rm foo; ln -s foo-1.2.4 foo; git add foo
  496. # [16:28] <sangwhan> on top of that msys/cygwin IO performance is abysmal when running the same code compared to any proper posix
  497. # [16:28] <mark06> I thought openssh used openssl for the backend
  498. # [16:29] <sangwhan> mark06: nope
  499. # [16:29] <zewt> odinho: still a problem (client has access to the user's private key), just less of one (would need a compromised server for it to matter)
  500. # [16:29] <odinho> zewt: okay. I don't know the area well at all :)
  501. # [16:31] <zewt> i don't really know details about the bug, either
  502. # [16:31] <mark06> ah I thought ssh was built on top of tls/ssl
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  504. # [16:32] <mark06> zewt: so foo-1.2.3 is versioned, you delete it, add foo-1.2.4, and it thinks it's a rename?
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  506. # [16:33] <zewt> yeah, since the files look the same
  507. # [16:33] <zewt> like odinho mentioned earlier
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  509. # [16:34] <zewt> (the original discussion was about critic doing that; i was just observing that it's what git does)
  510. # [16:35] <jgraham> The original discussion was about critic *not* doing that
  511. # [16:35] <jgraham> Which it doesn't
  512. # [16:35] <jgraham> Unfortunately
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  514. # [16:35] <zewt> 11:53 < sangwhan> MikeSmith: have you tried the shortcut "m"?
  515. # [16:35] <zewt> 11:55 < sangwhan> MikeSmith: that will do a second pass scan for renamed/moved files
  516. # [16:35] <jgraham> Yeah OK
  517. # [16:36] <jgraham> That is suboptimal in various ways, however
  518. # [16:36] <jgraham> (it isn't the default, you can't review files from that view, etc.)
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  520. # [16:36] <mark06> also, msys (and msysGit) lacks timezone support completely, if you set $TZ for using date.exe correctly, MSVCRT applications get confused instead (IIRC git isn't really compile *for* msys)
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  522. # [16:37] <sangwhan> zewt: there are some limitations with that feature, sadly
  523. # [16:38] <sangwhan> zewt: sort of works when most files have severely different content. i think you can adjust the threshold on the server side somehow if i remember correctly.
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  529. # [16:39] <mark06> zewt: you say symlink doesn't enter into it, but your code snippet shows it's indeed being/getting versioned... why you add foo if foo-1.2.4 is already added?
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  531. # [16:41] <zewt> i've never tried to use git in windows, i just use a linux shell with a cifs mount if i want a git wc to live in windows
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  534. # [16:41] <zewt> mark06: so the build process knows where to find it
  535. # [16:41] <zewt> the symlink has nothing to do with the rename problem, it was just explaining why i'm adding and removing like that
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  553. # [17:00] <mark06> it actually make it more confusing to me understand... but anyway... you explicitly "git rm" and "git add"... it's really annoying it insisting to mean a rename
  554. # [17:03] <mark06> but as someone said, there isn't a concept of rename and I guess it feels free to be "clever", expecting you to cheer on it
  555. # [17:04] <mark06> but my bet is it just groks it from the symlink...
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  572. # [17:23] <zewt> (no, it uses the similarity of the files)
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  574. # [17:23] <mark06> anyone knows about status of web speech api in firefox? it indeed has a speechSynthesis but looks useless... (e.g. no SpeechSynthesisUtterance or docs...)
  575. # [17:25] <mark06> that wouldn't hurt, would it? you're trying to cheat git but it is smarter haha...
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  577. # [17:26] <mark06> initially, I wouldn't bother since they're actually the same files... but updated to new version...
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  596. # [18:00] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
  597. # [18:01] <IZh> Good evening.
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  613. # [18:35] <eligrey> i'm not very familiar with wiki syntax
  614. # [18:35] <eligrey> how do i rename http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/NavigatorCores to NavigatorHWConcurrency
  615. # [18:35] <eligrey> or at least redirect to that
  616. # [18:35] <eligrey> (from the current page, that is)
  617. # [18:37] <Domenic_> WebIDL question (seriously asking): why not use `partial interface Navigator`? I guess you'd have to duplicate between `partial interface Navigator` and partial interface WorkerNavigator`?
  618. # [18:37] <Ms2ger> Yes
  619. # [18:37] <Domenic_> OK, cool.
  620. # [18:37] <Ms2ger> eligrey, done
  621. # [18:38] <eligrey> thanks Ms2ger
  622. # [18:38] <eligrey> also is my Navigator implements NavigatorCPU stuff necessary in the idl?
  623. # [18:38] <eligrey> i wasn't sure but a chrome eng said it should include that
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  719. # Session Close: Sat May 10 00:00:00 2014

The end :)