/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-05-22 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Thu May 22 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:02] * Joins: aretecode (~aretecode@173.192.170.114-static.reverse.softlayer.com)
  4. # [00:03] <tantek> Hixie: ACK: 🐱
  5. # [00:07] * Quits: aretecode (~aretecode@173.192.170.114-static.reverse.softlayer.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  6. # [00:09] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  7. # [00:15] * Joins: mven (~textual@169.241.49.229)
  8. # [00:17] * Quits: mven (~textual@169.241.49.229) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  9. # [00:17] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  10. # [00:17] * Joins: mven (~textual@169.241.49.229)
  11. # [00:18] * Quits: ehsan_ (~ehsan@66.207.208.102) (Remote host closed the connection)
  12. # [00:18] * Quits: zewt (~foo@ec2-50-17-220-142.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  13. # [00:18] * Joins: zewt (~foo@ec2-50-17-220-142.compute-1.amazonaws.com)
  14. # [00:19] * Joins: aretecode (~aretecode@173.192.170.114-static.reverse.softlayer.com)
  15. # [00:19] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.102)
  16. # [00:23] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  17. # [00:25] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Client Quit)
  18. # [00:25] * Joins: gavin__ (~gavin@76.14.87.162)
  19. # Session Close: Thu May 22 00:28:38 2014
  20. #
  21. # Session Start: Thu May 22 00:28:38 2014
  22. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  23. # [00:28] * Disconnected
  24. # [00:29] * Attempting to rejoin channel #whatwg
  25. # [00:29] * Rejoined channel #whatwg
  26. # [00:29] * Topic is 'http://www.whatwg.org/ — logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ & http://logbot.glob.com.au/ — stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html — Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  27. # [00:29] * Set by annevk!~annevk@207.218.72.65 on Tue Mar 25 11:47:32
  28. # [00:30] * Joins: scheib_ (sid4467@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ykcobwgeimxabkry)
  29. # [00:30] * Joins: jochen___ (jochen@nat/google/x-yipujgjwppzretda)
  30. # [00:30] * Quits: richt (~richt@c83-248-137-176.bredband.comhem.se) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  31. # [00:30] * Joins: mmn_ (~MattN@192.95.22.58)
  32. # [00:32] * Joins: TabAtkins_ (sid11559@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wltuswvmsnqrhxdz)
  33. # [00:32] * Joins: bterlson_ (sid23757@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-omcemqrvaallenut)
  34. # [00:33] * Joins: sangwhan_ (sid12645@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ijgqidinygklddwy)
  35. # [00:33] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  36. # [00:33] * Quits: zama (zama@unaffiliated/stryx/x-3871776) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  37. # [00:33] * Quits: krit (sid15081@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bkigebdudrkybudl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  38. # [00:33] * Quits: arpitab__ (uid10516@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-grcuakpwmoqnefrs) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  39. # [00:33] * Quits: hayato_gardening (sid20728@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pqokrfxpnohtemhk) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  40. # [00:33] * Quits: scheib (sid4467@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rubyrbddfxavjwav) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  41. # [00:34] * Joins: hayato_gardening (sid20728@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-usywwjdrwrqkldrj)
  42. # [00:34] * arpitab___ is now known as arpitab__
  43. # [00:34] * scheib_ is now known as scheib
  44. # [00:34] * Joins: JakeA_ (uid3836@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-njicqbqgkytkjbtd)
  45. # [00:34] * Joins: cwilso_ (sid10206@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xmftvdwxnwqeihwc)
  46. # [00:34] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@199.71.174.203)
  47. # [00:37] * Joins: ambv_ (~ambv@206.108.217.134)
  48. # [00:37] * Joins: Guest92740 (~woops@129.175.204.73)
  49. # [00:37] * Joins: newtron_ (~newtron@199.71.174.204)
  50. # [00:38] * Joins: silky__ (~malcolmva@c-67-180-198-144.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  51. # [00:38] * Quits: TabAtkins (sid11559@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wwpveoohsvklapjf) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  52. # [00:38] * Quits: jochen__ (jochen@nat/google/x-flsltuhrjxlhwtpe) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  53. # [00:38] * Quits: JakeA (uid3836@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ondlcdextnftccgy) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  54. # [00:38] * Quits: bterlson (sid23757@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lbrwhrjhsaxnmdda) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  55. # [00:38] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@corp.mtv2.mozilla.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  56. # [00:38] * Quits: mmn (~MattN@192.95.22.58) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  57. # [00:38] * Quits: krijnhoetmer_ (~krijnhoet@ip4da4a84d.direct-adsl.nl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  58. # [00:38] * Quits: jahman (~woops@129.175.204.73) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  59. # [00:38] * Quits: malcolmva (~malcolmva@c-67-180-198-144.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  60. # [00:38] * Quits: sangwhan (sid12645@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rixjtzhdvswokxlr) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  61. # [00:38] * Quits: cwilso (sid10206@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vbeddiyoakrnscik) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  62. # [00:38] * Quits: ambv (~ambv@206.108.217.134) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  63. # [00:38] * Joins: krit (sid15081@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-deintdxsewitziav)
  64. # [00:38] * mmn_ is now known as mmn
  65. # [00:38] * jochen___ is now known as jochen__
  66. # [00:38] * TabAtkins_ is now known as TabAtkins
  67. # [00:38] * bterlson_ is now known as bterlson
  68. # [00:38] * cwilso_ is now known as cwilso
  69. # [00:38] * sangwhan_ is now known as sangwhan
  70. # [00:38] * JakeA_ is now known as JakeA
  71. # [00:39] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@corp.mtv2.mozilla.com)
  72. # [00:39] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  73. # [00:40] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@199.71.174.203) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  74. # [00:41] * Joins: SamB_ (~SamB@2001:470:1f07:57:e13c:db1c:8e8:d7d)
  75. # [00:41] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@24.130.145.237)
  76. # [00:41] * Quits: newtron_ (~newtron@199.71.174.204) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  77. # [00:43] * Quits: SamB (~SamB@2001:470:1f07:57:6d76:16bb:edf7:10ba) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  78. # [00:44] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@24.130.145.237) (Client Quit)
  79. # [00:47] * Quits: Gege (~gege2@future.deferred.io) (*.net *.split)
  80. # [00:48] * Quits: KevinMarks_ (~KevinMark@c-67-164-14-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  81. # [00:49] * Quits: ambv_ (~ambv@206.108.217.134) (*.net *.split)
  82. # [00:49] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (*.net *.split)
  83. # [00:49] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (*.net *.split)
  84. # [00:49] * Quits: m4nu (~manu@216.252.204.51) (*.net *.split)
  85. # [00:49] * Quits: bnicholson (~bnicholso@corp.mtv2.mozilla.com) (*.net *.split)
  86. # [00:49] * Quits: Ducki (~Ducki@137.116.197.171) (*.net *.split)
  87. # [00:49] * Quits: Garbee (uid21171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dsoytojouwletajb) (*.net *.split)
  88. # [00:50] <Hixie> so about promises...
  89. # [00:51] <Hixie> is it possible to subclass promises so that they include more information?
  90. # [00:51] * Joins: manu (~manu@216.252.204.51)
  91. # [00:51] <Hixie> consider the thing we were talking about yesterday, where a script needs to be told to wait for an image, so the image's .loaded promise is given to the script so it can wait for the promise
  92. # [00:51] * manu is now known as Guest91722
  93. # [00:51] <Hixie> what if the image itself is also in "whenneeded" mode, and so is waiting until someone needs it before it loads?
  94. # [00:52] <Hixie> is there some way i can subclass the promise to provide a way to signal back to the promise vendor that the image is now needed?
  95. # [00:54] * Quits: lilmonkey` (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Excess Flood)
  96. # [00:55] * Joins: lilmonkey (~colin@5ED090B0.cm-7-1c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  97. # [00:55] * Quits: lilmonkey (~colin@5ED090B0.cm-7-1c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Changing host)
  98. # [00:55] * Joins: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  99. # [00:55] * Quits: a-ja (~Instantbi@70.230.147.189) (Remote host closed the connection)
  100. # [00:57] * Quits: KevinMarks (~yaaic@c-67-164-14-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  101. # [00:57] * Joins: Gege (~gege2@future.deferred.io)
  102. # [01:00] * Joins: KevinMarks (~yaaic@2607:fb90:50b:19bc:d0ce:1034:f49f:aece)
  103. # [01:01] * Joins: Rastus_Vernon (uid15187@wikimedia/Rastus-Vernon)
  104. # [01:02] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.114.217.202)
  105. # [01:03] * Quits: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-htictdvutivycrfx) (Quit: There's no place like home...)
  106. # [01:03] <Hixie> JakeA: why .ready for document and .loaded for img/link/etc ?
  107. # [01:04] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.114.217.202) (Client Quit)
  108. # [01:05] <Hixie> oh, i see
  109. # [01:05] <Hixie> document would have .loaded too
  110. # [01:05] <Hixie> and .ready would be for just when it's parsed
  111. # [01:05] <Hixie> i suppose script could have a .ready too to mean .execute() would occur immediately if called
  112. # [01:09] * Joins: bnicholson (~bnicholso@corp.mtv2.mozilla.com)
  113. # [01:10] * Joins: Ducki (~Ducki@137.116.197.171)
  114. # [01:11] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-wxikavwnbkllgzkf)
  115. # [01:11] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-wxikavwnbkllgzkf) (Changing host)
  116. # [01:11] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
  117. # [01:14] * Joins: ambv_ (~ambv@206.108.217.134)
  118. # [01:14] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  119. # [01:14] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  120. # [01:14] * Joins: Garbee (uid21171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dsoytojouwletajb)
  121. # [01:14] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  122. # [01:25] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@17.202.46.221) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  123. # [01:27] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net)
  124. # [01:31] * Joins: SamB__ (~SamB@2001:470:1f07:57:e13c:db1c:8e8:d7d)
  125. # [01:33] * Quits: SamB_ (~SamB@2001:470:1f07:57:e13c:db1c:8e8:d7d) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  126. # [01:36] * Joins: richt (~richt@c83-248-137-176.bredband.comhem.se)
  127. # [01:38] * Joins: SamB_ (~SamB@2001:470:1f07:57:e13c:db1c:8e8:d7d)
  128. # [01:40] * Quits: SamB__ (~SamB@2001:470:1f07:57:e13c:db1c:8e8:d7d) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  129. # [01:40] * Quits: richt (~richt@c83-248-137-176.bredband.comhem.se) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  130. # [01:41] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.210)
  131. # [01:42] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-19es.pool-101-109.dynamic.totbb.net) (Quit: จรลี จรลา)
  132. # [01:43] * Joins: dawhite (~dawhite@74.118.22.223)
  133. # [01:47] * Quits: KevinMarks (~yaaic@2607:fb90:50b:19bc:d0ce:1034:f49f:aece) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  134. # [01:47] * Joins: KevinMarks (~yaaic@2607:fb90:50b:19bc:d0ce:1034:f49f:aece)
  135. # [01:49] * Quits: jeffreyatw (~jeffreyat@173.247.197.10) (Quit: jeffreyatw)
  136. # [01:50] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@1.211.55.119)
  137. # [01:57] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@1.211.55.119) (Remote host closed the connection)
  138. # [02:00] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-254.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  139. # [02:06] * Guest91722 is now known as m4nu
  140. # [02:10] * Quits: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:304:5d6a:e774:4735:d973) (Quit: ap)
  141. # [02:12] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@172.56.39.194)
  142. # [02:19] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  143. # [02:20] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@172.56.39.194) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  144. # [02:22] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  145. # [02:27] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.102) (Remote host closed the connection)
  146. # [02:29] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@corp.mtv2.mozilla.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-8.1450hg.fc20 [XULRunner 29.0/20140428110119])
  147. # [02:29] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@172.56.39.194)
  148. # [02:33] * Joins: scor (~scor@c-24-2-162-32.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  149. # [02:33] * Quits: scor (~scor@c-24-2-162-32.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Changing host)
  150. # [02:33] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  151. # [02:35] * Joins: Streusel (~Anonymous@unaffiliated/streusel)
  152. # [02:35] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@172.56.39.194) (Quit: tantek)
  153. # [02:37] * Joins: john3213 (john3213@static-72-66-66-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
  154. # [02:39] * Joins: JosephSilber (~Joseph@ool-44c3e80a.static.optonline.net)
  155. # [02:41] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Quit: sicking)
  156. # [02:42] * Parts: john3213 (john3213@static-72-66-66-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
  157. # [02:43] * Quits: victorbjelkholm (~victorbje@41.Red-83-60-204.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) (Quit: ZZZzzz…)
  158. # [02:44] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  159. # [02:44] * Quits: KevinMarks (~yaaic@2607:fb90:50b:19bc:d0ce:1034:f49f:aece) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  160. # [02:46] * Joins: KevinMarks (~yaaic@2607:fb90:406:7bf0:fe8a:61a2:57f4:7c28)
  161. # [02:46] * Quits: roven (~roven@78-20-24-80.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
  162. # [02:47] * Quits: coolbot95 (~coolbot95@gateway/tor-sasl/coolbot95) (Quit: coolbot95)
  163. # [02:49] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  164. # [02:54] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  165. # [02:55] * Joins: KevinMarks_ (~KevinMark@guest-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  166. # [02:56] * Quits: bnicholson (~bnicholso@corp.mtv2.mozilla.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  167. # [03:03] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  168. # [03:04] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@76.74.153.49)
  169. # [03:04] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  170. # [03:04] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  171. # [03:05] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Quit: sicking)
  172. # [03:06] * Quits: KevinMarks (~yaaic@2607:fb90:406:7bf0:fe8a:61a2:57f4:7c28) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  173. # [03:07] * Joins: KevinMarks (~yaaic@2607:fb90:406:7bf0:fe8a:61a2:57f4:7c28)
  174. # [03:11] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@76.74.153.49) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  175. # [03:12] * Quits: KevinMarks_ (~KevinMark@guest-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  176. # [03:19] * Joins: Goplat (~goplat@reactos/developer/Goplat)
  177. # [03:24] * Joins: richt (~richt@c83-248-137-176.bredband.comhem.se)
  178. # [03:25] * Joins: KevinMarks_ (~KevinMark@guest-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  179. # [03:28] * Quits: richt (~richt@c83-248-137-176.bredband.comhem.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  180. # [03:42] <MikeSmith> Hixie: 🐱 shows up fine for me in from my mac over ssh to irssi running within tmux, but not if I run within screen
  181. # [03:43] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  182. # [03:44] <MikeSmith> Hixie: and if you happen to be using mosh on osx, note that mosh won't display it correctly on osx due to osx using some outdated libc
  183. # [03:44] <MikeSmith> needs libc 2.8+
  184. # [03:44] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  185. # [03:50] * Joins: mven (~textual@ip68-104-38-84.lv.lv.cox.net)
  186. # [03:55] * Quits: mven (~textual@ip68-104-38-84.lv.lv.cox.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  187. # [03:55] * Joins: mven_ (~textual@ip68-104-38-84.lv.lv.cox.net)
  188. # [04:02] <Hixie> ah, yeah, i'm in screen
  189. # [04:02] <Hixie> wonder what screen is doing to screw that up
  190. # [04:02] <Hixie> it doesn't display right for me in chrome either
  191. # [04:03] <Hixie> i guess chrome doesn't do the fallback to colour emoji fonts right
  192. # [04:04] <SamB_> what is this, a Type 3 font you're talking about?
  193. # [04:04] * SamB_ doesn't know any other fonts that can have colored glyphs
  194. # [04:08] * Quits: estellevw (~estellewy@209.49.66.106) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  195. # [04:13] * Quits: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  196. # [04:13] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com)
  197. # [04:14] * Joins: bnicholson (~bnicholso@24.130.57.109)
  198. # [04:17] * Quits: kochi1 (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1000:26be:5ff:fe03:db82) (Quit: Leaving.)
  199. # [04:17] * Quits: kochi (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1000:26be:5ff:fe03:db82) (Remote host closed the connection)
  200. # [04:18] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  201. # [04:18] * Quits: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  202. # [04:18] * SamB_ is now known as SamB
  203. # [04:24] * Quits: SamB (~SamB@2001:470:1f07:57:e13c:db1c:8e8:d7d) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  204. # [04:24] * Joins: SamB (~SamB@2001:470:1f07:57:e13c:db1c:8e8:d7d)
  205. # [04:25] <MikeSmith> SamB: I don't know what font osx is using but for the unicode emoji characters it does seem to use colored glyphs
  206. # [04:25] <MikeSmith> Hixie: yeah chrome doesn't display any unicode emoji properly yet
  207. # [04:25] <MikeSmith> Hixie: there's a chrome bug open for it
  208. # [04:25] * Quits: fredy (~fredy@snf-8914.vm.okeanos.grnet.gr) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  209. # [04:25] <MikeSmith> chrome on osx
  210. # [04:26] <MikeSmith> Hixie: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=62435 fwiw
  211. # [04:27] <zewt> neat, nvidia's driver download webpage is totally broken if you won't let it run java
  212. # [04:27] <zewt> welcome to the awesome future
  213. # [04:28] * Joins: fredy (~fredy@snf-8914.vm.okeanos.grnet.gr)
  214. # [04:33] <MikeSmith> SamB: apparently they're just PNGs https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=715798#c2
  215. # [04:36] <MikeSmith> SamB: hmm maybe it changed though, some time during the last two years. Because when I zoom on them now I don't see pixelation
  216. # [04:38] <MikeSmith> SamB: scratch that. if you scale them up big enough you will see the pixelation
  217. # [04:44] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  218. # [04:47] * Joins: roven (~roven@78-20-24-80.access.telenet.be)
  219. # [04:50] <Hixie> few years from now we'll all be talking about the megapixel count of our emoji font characters...
  220. # [04:51] * Quits: KevinMarks_ (~KevinMark@guest-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  221. # [04:51] * Joins: kochi (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1000:26be:5ff:fe03:db82)
  222. # [04:51] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@173-228-112-232.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  223. # [04:52] * Quits: roven (~roven@78-20-24-80.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  224. # [04:53] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Quit: tantek)
  225. # [04:54] * Joins: shepazu_ (~shepazu@108-70-132-46.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net)
  226. # [04:54] <MikeSmith> heh
  227. # [04:54] <MikeSmith> nice to have something to look forward to
  228. # [04:56] * Joins: pdr_ (sid7901@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jadwibthklkweuuj)
  229. # [04:56] * Joins: kochi1 (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1000:26be:5ff:fe03:db82)
  230. # [04:56] * Joins: gavinc_ (~gavin@barad-dur.carothers.name)
  231. # [04:56] * Joins: karlcow_ (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  232. # [04:57] * Joins: jgraham_ (~jgraham@web91.webfaction.com)
  233. # [04:57] * Joins: mrbkap (~mrbkap@people1.scl3.mozilla.com)
  234. # [04:57] * Joins: jdaggett_ (~jdaggett@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net)
  235. # [04:57] * Joins: manu (~manu@216.252.204.51)
  236. # [04:58] * manu is now known as Guest2617
  237. # [04:59] * Quits: jeremyj (~jeremyj@17.202.44.231) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  238. # [05:01] * Joins: mmn_ (~MattN@192.95.22.58)
  239. # [05:01] * Joins: GPH-Hickory (~GPHemsley@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley)
  240. # [05:02] * Joins: ryuone_ (~ryuone@133.242.55.223)
  241. # [05:02] * Quits: ambv_ (~ambv@206.108.217.134) (Quit: sys.exit(0) # computer went to sleep)
  242. # [05:03] * Quits: pdr (sid7901@pdpc/supporter/active/pdr) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  243. # [05:03] * Quits: mmn (~MattN@192.95.22.58) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  244. # [05:03] * mmn_ is now known as mmn
  245. # [05:03] * Quits: jgraham (~jgraham@web91.webfaction.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  246. # [05:03] * Quits: mrbkap_ (~mrbkap@people1.scl3.mozilla.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  247. # [05:03] * Quits: gavinc (~gavin@barad-dur.carothers.name) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  248. # [05:03] * Quits: GPHemsley (~GPHemsley@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  249. # [05:03] * Quits: shepazu (~shepazu@108-70-132-46.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  250. # [05:03] * Quits: inimino (~inimino@oftn/board/inimino) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  251. # [05:03] * Quits: m4nu (~manu@216.252.204.51) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  252. # [05:03] * Quits: ryuone (~ryuone@133.242.55.223) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  253. # [05:05] * Joins: dawhite_ (~dawhite@74.118.22.223)
  254. # [05:07] * Quits: phuu (sid7721@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ehnkvscnjvskzvwk) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  255. # [05:07] * Joins: phuu (sid7721@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  256. # [05:07] * Joins: inimino` (~inimino@boshi.inimino.org)
  257. # [05:07] * Quits: inimino` (~inimino@boshi.inimino.org) (Changing host)
  258. # [05:07] * Joins: inimino` (~inimino@oftn/board/inimino)
  259. # [05:07] * Quits: phuu (sid7721@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  260. # [05:07] * Joins: phuu (sid7721@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ryvrxlohwzjdwhgz)
  261. # [05:08] * pdr_ is now known as pdr
  262. # [05:08] * shepazu_ is now known as shepazu
  263. # [05:08] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@c-98-210-38-110.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  264. # [05:08] * Quits: dawhite (~dawhite@74.118.22.223) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  265. # [05:08] * Quits: hdv (sid2376@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hzzkpeyjjvgypqia) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  266. # [05:09] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@173-228-112-232.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (*.net *.split)
  267. # [05:09] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (*.net *.split)
  268. # [05:09] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net) (*.net *.split)
  269. # [05:09] * jdaggett_ is now known as jdaggett
  270. # [05:10] * Joins: hdv (sid2376@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-slhgmuqkgcbjkagp)
  271. # [05:12] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  272. # [05:13] <SamB> MikeSmith: you'd think they'd have heard of SVG by now
  273. # [05:13] * Joins: richt (~richt@c83-248-137-176.bredband.comhem.se)
  274. # [05:14] * Joins: jeremyj (~jeremyj@17.202.44.231)
  275. # [05:15] * Quits: Garbee (uid21171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dsoytojouwletajb) (*.net *.split)
  276. # [05:17] * Quits: richt (~richt@c83-248-137-176.bredband.comhem.se) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  277. # [05:18] * Joins: SamB_ (~SamB@2001:470:1f07:57:e13c:db1c:8e8:d7d)
  278. # [05:20] * Quits: SamB (~SamB@2001:470:1f07:57:e13c:db1c:8e8:d7d) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  279. # [05:53] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@162.217.73.171)
  280. # [05:55] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@162.217.73.171) (Client Quit)
  281. # [05:55] * Joins: ambv (~ambv@173.252.71.129)
  282. # [05:55] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@c-98-210-38-110.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  283. # [05:58] * Joins: Guest57780 (uid21171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xvxwpdtucjipaptl)
  284. # [06:10] * inimino` is now known as inimino
  285. # [06:11] * Joins: ambv_ (~ambv@d23-16-55-40.bchsia.telus.net)
  286. # [06:12] * Quits: KevinMarks (~yaaic@2607:fb90:406:7bf0:fe8a:61a2:57f4:7c28) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  287. # [06:13] * Joins: KevinMarks (~yaaic@2607:fb90:406:7bf0:fe8a:61a2:57f4:7c28)
  288. # [06:13] * Quits: ambv (~ambv@173.252.71.129) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  289. # [06:13] * Joins: ambv (~ambv@173.252.71.129)
  290. # [06:14] <MikeSmith> SamB_: ... then they'd have two problems
  291. # [06:15] <SamB_> oh?
  292. # [06:16] <MikeSmith> SamB_: just doing the mandatory trolling of SVG that's required any time somebody mentions it on this channel
  293. # [06:16] <SamB_> why's that required?
  294. # [06:16] * Quits: ambv_ (~ambv@d23-16-55-40.bchsia.telus.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  295. # [06:17] <MikeSmith> SamB_: because SVG is crazy. It tries to add a *socket API* to the platform. I mean, what kind of crazy-ass spec tries to add a socket API!! nuts
  296. # [06:18] <SamB_> huh, didn't know about that
  297. # [06:18] <SamB_> which version of SVG tries that?
  298. # [06:18] <MikeSmith> the bad version
  299. # [06:18] <MikeSmith> wait, all versions of SVG are bad
  300. # [06:19] <MikeSmith> so I guess I have to qualify that
  301. # [06:19] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@17.202.43.222) (Quit: rniwa)
  302. # [06:19] <MikeSmith> I think it has "5th Edition" in the title
  303. # [06:19] <MikeSmith> wait, no that's a different spec, some other spec
  304. # [06:20] <SamB_> is that just XML trolling now?
  305. # [06:20] <MikeSmith> SVG trolling XML?
  306. # [06:20] <MikeSmith> could be
  307. # [06:23] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@c-98-210-38-110.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  308. # [06:24] <SamB_> hmm, I thought there were two MIME types for svg
  309. # [06:24] <SamB_> one image/ and one application/
  310. # [06:25] * Quits: KevinMarks (~yaaic@2607:fb90:406:7bf0:fe8a:61a2:57f4:7c28) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  311. # [06:25] <MikeSmith> Hixie: btw recently I started trying out using mutt on my mobile. Over ssh of course. To mutt running on the mail server in a tmux/screen session. I just tried it on a lark and didn't expect to be very usable. But it turns out it is and I've pretty much completely quit using the Android mail client I had been using (K-9).
  312. # [06:26] <MikeSmith> Hixie: which is all a way of saying I bet it would work OK for Alpine too
  313. # [06:26] * Joins: KevinMarks (~yaaic@2607:fb90:406:7bf0:fe8a:61a2:57f4:7c28)
  314. # [06:26] <MikeSmith> Hixie: the main trick I think is to use an android ssh client that has support for swipe typing
  315. # [06:27] <zewt> this is all the worst thing i've ever heard of in my life today
  316. # [06:27] <MikeSmith> Hixie: which the one I use does (irrssiconnectbot) but others (e.g., JuiceSSH) don't
  317. # [06:28] <MikeSmith> zewt: which part? you got a lot to choose from
  318. # [06:28] <MikeSmith> SamB_: if so I doubt there's any need for the application/ one
  319. # [06:29] <SamB_> how are you *supposed* to keep the scripts from running?
  320. # [06:30] <MikeSmith> you do that by not using SVG I guess
  321. # [06:31] <SamB_> I guess that's an <img> vs. <object> thing?
  322. # [06:38] <zewt> wow, chrome fullscreen is totally unusable now, pops up a "you have gone fullscreen" over the page if you come within half a light year of the top of the screen
  323. # [06:39] <zewt> aggravating when things are crippled for me because someone *else* might be stupid
  324. # [06:50] * Joins: llkats (~llkats@c-69-181-45-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  325. # [06:58] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-50-136-134-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  326. # [07:01] * Joins: richt (~richt@c83-248-137-176.bredband.comhem.se)
  327. # [07:02] * Joins: IZh (~IZh@83.220.236.21)
  328. # [07:05] * Quits: Guest57780 (uid21171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xvxwpdtucjipaptl) (*.net *.split)
  329. # [07:05] * Quits: richt (~richt@c83-248-137-176.bredband.comhem.se) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  330. # [07:06] * Quits: llkats (~llkats@c-69-181-45-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  331. # [07:12] * Quits: JosephSilber (~Joseph@ool-44c3e80a.static.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  332. # [07:17] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@220.225.242.27)
  333. # [07:18] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@220.225.242.27) (Client Quit)
  334. # [07:19] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@220.225.242.27)
  335. # [07:26] * Quits: Rastus_Vernon (uid15187@wikimedia/Rastus-Vernon) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  336. # [07:30] <Hixie> MikeSmith: in the past the problems i've found with trying to do pine on my phone are (a) the phone's screen is about 22 inches too small, (b) the phone's keyboard is about 12 inches too small, (c) the phone's keyboard is missing half the keys i need (or is an unusable custom keyboard), and (d) latency is terrible
  337. # [07:30] <Hixie> MikeSmith: so i don't bother with e-mail on my phone.
  338. # [07:35] <MikeSmith> Hixie: yeah trying to write mail on mobile is still a PITA. But I guess my main use case is just reading mail during the 1 hour or so commute on the train back and forth from my office.
  339. # [07:35] <MikeSmith> Hixie: which is often, I'm either standing, or I'm sitting shoulder-to-shoulder with people on each side, and can't really use my laptop
  340. # [07:36] <MikeSmith> Hixie: so I read a lot of bugmail then, and list mail, and just flag particular messages for later (to reply to later or read further later)
  341. # [07:37] <MikeSmith> Hixie: so it's more kind of just triaging mail from mobile. inbox gardening
  342. # [07:43] <JakeA> Hixie: yeah, you can imagine <video> having .ready but not .loaded. Not sure when ready would resolve for video though
  343. # [07:44] * Quits: Ducki (~Ducki@137.116.197.171) (Remote host closed the connection)
  344. # [07:47] * Joins: Ducki (~Ducki@137.116.197.171)
  345. # [08:11] * Quits: Goplat (~goplat@reactos/developer/Goplat) (Remote host closed the connection)
  346. # [08:17] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@5.153.234.90)
  347. # [08:33] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@c-98-210-38-110.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  348. # [08:41] * Quits: KevinMarks (~yaaic@2607:fb90:406:7bf0:fe8a:61a2:57f4:7c28) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  349. # [08:41] * Quits: cbiesinger (sid8099@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kwzqhojcvfqjmmeg) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  350. # [08:41] * Joins: cbiesinger (sid8099@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-heoipvcqyzwihkdl)
  351. # [08:42] * Quits: Domenic (sid10976@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mpyyqzjhfuapmriz) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  352. # [08:43] * Joins: Domenic (sid10976@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ahkpeokpxtglbesh)
  353. # [08:47] * Joins: KevinMarks (~yaaic@172.56.31.23)
  354. # [08:49] * Joins: roven (~roven@78-20-24-80.access.telenet.be)
  355. # [08:49] * Joins: richt (~richt@c83-248-137-176.bredband.comhem.se)
  356. # [08:53] * Quits: mven_ (~textual@ip68-104-38-84.lv.lv.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  357. # [08:54] * Quits: richt (~richt@c83-248-137-176.bredband.comhem.se) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  358. # [08:54] * Quits: roven (~roven@78-20-24-80.access.telenet.be) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  359. # [08:58] * Joins: richt (~richt@c83-248-137-176.bredband.comhem.se)
  360. # [08:59] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@212.216-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
  361. # [09:07] * Quits: richt (~richt@c83-248-137-176.bredband.comhem.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
  362. # [09:08] * Joins: richt (~richt@c83-248-137-176.bredband.comhem.se)
  363. # [09:12] * Quits: richt (~richt@c83-248-137-176.bredband.comhem.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  364. # [09:16] * Quits: ambv (~ambv@173.252.71.129) (Quit: sys.exit(0) # computer went to sleep)
  365. # [09:23] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-254.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  366. # [09:27] <annevk> So per https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=43394#c80 they are taking the perf hit in order to be compliant for now and will fix the V8 side later.
  367. # [09:28] <Ms2ger> Again?
  368. # [09:30] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-254.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  369. # [09:33] * Joins: Guest57780 (uid21171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yykicnwgcxikzpkz)
  370. # [09:38] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-254.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  371. # [09:39] * Joins: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123)
  372. # [09:42] * Quits: Ducki (~Ducki@137.116.197.171) (Remote host closed the connection)
  373. # [09:44] * Quits: rego (~rego@192.193.27.77.dynamic.mundo-r.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  374. # [09:44] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
  375. # [09:44] <MikeSmith> groundhog day
  376. # [09:46] <TabAtkins> Hixie: Yeah, subclassing Promises should be possible. Ping Domenic or Alex Russell about the details.
  377. # [09:47] <TabAtkins> JakeA: Maybe <video>.ready would resolve when the appropriate amount of preload data loads?
  378. # [09:47] * Joins: Ducki (~Ducki@137.116.197.171)
  379. # [09:48] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  380. # [09:50] * Joins: KevinMarks2 (~yaaic@c-67-164-14-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  381. # [09:53] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@220.225.242.27) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  382. # [09:54] * Quits: KevinMarks (~yaaic@172.56.31.23) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  383. # [10:01] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  384. # [10:01] <annevk> I wonder why https://code.google.com/p/pdfium/ hasn't been axed yet in favor of https://github.com/mozilla/pdf.js to reduce Blink's Core
  385. # [10:01] <annevk> Maybe because it's part of Chromium and therefore Blink doesn't have a say...
  386. # [10:02] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  387. # [10:02] * Joins: rego (~rego@192.193.27.77.dynamic.mundo-r.com)
  388. # [10:04] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@61-121-216-2.bitcat.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  389. # [10:05] * Joins: victorbjelkholm (~victorbje@41.Red-83-60-204.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
  390. # [10:08] <Ms2ger> Mobile performance
  391. # [10:08] <JakeA> TabAtkins: that's a possibility. Also it could resolve once the duration is known. Lots of possibilities
  392. # [10:08] <JakeA> probably want promises for each
  393. # [10:08] <annevk> https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/issues/266#issuecomment-43848275 *sigh*
  394. # [10:08] <annevk> Maybe I should just write a script that extracts the specification and publishes it somewhere
  395. # [10:09] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@gateway.creuna.se) (Quit: Leaving.)
  396. # [10:09] <JakeA> annevk: On some projects I have a "build" directory in my master branch that's a submodule pointing at the gh-pages branch
  397. # [10:09] <JakeA> that works pretty well for deployments
  398. # [10:10] <JakeA> overkill for this though
  399. # [10:10] <JakeA> we should just be using gh-pages
  400. # [10:10] <darobin> wow, this is an actual discussion?
  401. # [10:10] * Quits: diffalot (~diffalot@c-76-107-128-104.hsd1.ms.comcast.net) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
  402. # [10:11] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  403. # [10:11] <MikeSmith> github should just make stuff be web published from the master branch by default and dispense with the whole gh-pages PITA thing
  404. # [10:12] <jgraham_> darobin: It turns out they ran out of bikesheds to paint, so have now turned their attention to painting shoeboxes instead
  405. # [10:13] * Joins: diffalot (~diffalot@c-76-107-128-104.hsd1.ms.comcast.net)
  406. # [10:13] <darobin> jgraham_++
  407. # [10:13] <darobin> I think standards do something bad to people's brains
  408. # [10:15] <JakeA> :D
  409. # [10:16] <JakeA> MikeSmith: Or the ability to select a branch to publish
  410. # [10:16] <MikeSmith> darobin: my brain fine, work good
  411. # [10:16] <MikeSmith> JakeA: yeah
  412. # [10:16] <darobin> haha
  413. # [10:17] <darobin> last I asked GitHub they said no one else had expressed that request
  414. # [10:17] <MikeSmith> JakeA: or call the gh-pages branch the dance-monkey-dance branch
  415. # [10:17] <darobin> somehow, I can't believe that's actually true
  416. # [10:20] * jgraham_ is now known as jgraham
  417. # [10:20] <darobin> feel free to hammer out some RTing for https://twitter.com/robinberjon/status/469392018331164672
  418. # [10:23] <MikeSmith> darobin: you need to create Github Haters account to retweet that from
  419. # [10:23] <darobin> lol
  420. # [10:23] <MikeSmith> darobin: similar to that GNOME Haters account your create a while back
  421. # [10:24] * Joins: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-67-164-14-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  422. # [10:24] <MikeSmith> you're doing great stuff with that account, getting the word out
  423. # [10:24] <darobin> that was me? I thought it came from Mr Last Week
  424. # [10:24] <MikeSmith> "Y U NOT ADD MORE PREFERENCES" indeed
  425. # [10:26] <MikeSmith> "AT LEAST WE KNOW THAT GNOME WILL NOT SUPPORT DRM, AS THEY DO NOT ADD NEW FEATURES, ONLY REMOVE THEM" etc.
  426. # [10:26] <darobin> yeah, that one made me think it was hsivonen's secret angry alter ego
  427. # [10:27] <JakeA> annevk: About to change ignoreQuerystring to ignoreQuery in the cache filtering params. Would you rather ignoreSeach?
  428. # [10:27] <JakeA> actually, now I've typed it, ignoreSearch is really confusing
  429. # [10:30] <annevk> JakeA: but it does match the name better...
  430. # [10:30] * Joins: roven (~roven@78-20-24-80.access.telenet.be)
  431. # [10:30] <annevk> JakeA: why is it confusing?
  432. # [10:31] <JakeA> annevk: cache.matchAll(request, {ignoreSearch: true})
  433. # [10:31] <annevk> JakeA: ignoreURLSearch
  434. # [10:32] <JakeA> maybe it's ok
  435. # [10:32] <JakeA> worried that the context is kinda "searching"
  436. # [10:33] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@213.166.174.2)
  437. # [10:33] <annevk> JakeA: seems you typo'd prefiMatch
  438. # [10:33] <JakeA> annevk: let's go with ignoreSearch, consistency wins
  439. # [10:34] <JakeA> annevk: Yeah, spotted that, fixing now
  440. # [10:34] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginm.net)
  441. # [10:34] <annevk> JakeA: I think what's confusing is that some options apply to URLs and some to HTTP
  442. # [10:35] * Quits: IZh (~IZh@83.220.236.21) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  443. # [10:35] <annevk> JakeA: request has a URL which has a search; request has a method; response has headers which have Vary; not sure what prefixMatch is about
  444. # [10:36] <annevk> but maybe you just need to learn this
  445. # [10:36] <annevk> I can't really think of an API that separates those concerns better
  446. # [10:38] <jgraham> By "search" do we mean "query"?
  447. # [10:41] <annevk> jgraham: depends, by "query", do you mean "search"?
  448. # [10:41] <JakeA> annevk: cache.matchAll("/hello/", {prefixMatch: true}) would match caches entries with urls like "/hello/world/"
  449. # [10:41] <JakeA> It's sorta like appcache's FALLBACK
  450. # [10:41] <jgraham> annevk: I'm pretty sure no one calls it a "url search" despite the wacky terminology in the location API
  451. # [10:41] <annevk> JakeA: after parsing the URL argument I suppose?
  452. # [10:42] <annevk> jgraham: all URL APIs call it search
  453. # [10:42] <JakeA> jgraham: ignoreQuery/ignoreSearch means that the query string is ignored in matching
  454. # [10:42] <jgraham> annevk: And that's a bug in those APIs :)
  455. # [10:43] <JakeA> annevk: Yeah, it basically does this https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/blob/master/service_worker.ts#L537
  456. # [10:44] <JakeA> annevk: although I dunno what requestPath is, that should just be request
  457. # [10:45] <JakeA> actually, requestUrl
  458. # [10:45] <annevk> JakeA: shouldn't it be called pathPrefixMatch then?
  459. # [10:46] <annevk> JakeA: or pathnamePrefixMatch; seems like you don't care about query there...
  460. # [10:46] <annevk> e.g. /?x=s&y=z /?x=s
  461. # [10:47] <JakeA> hmm, yeah, I think the impl is wrong
  462. # [10:50] <JakeA> will change those pathnames to hrefs
  463. # [10:52] * Joins: IZh (~IZh@83.220.239.249)
  464. # [10:53] * Quits: IZh (~IZh@83.220.239.249) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  465. # [10:53] * Joins: IZh (~IZh@83.220.239.249)
  466. # [10:55] <IZh> What is the type of media.currentTime? Is it integer or float?
  467. # [11:02] <kinetik> IZh: double (http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-video-element.html#htmlmediaelement)
  468. # [11:03] <IZh> kinetik: Thanks.
  469. # [11:04] * Quits: IZh (~IZh@83.220.239.249) (Remote host closed the connection)
  470. # [11:23] * Joins: Rikkol (john3213@static-72-66-66-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
  471. # [11:25] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  472. # [11:28] * Parts: Rikkol (john3213@static-72-66-66-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
  473. # [11:32] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginm.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  474. # [11:38] * Joins: tav (~tav`@host31-52-138-103.range31-52.btcentralplus.com)
  475. # [11:44] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  476. # [11:50] * Quits: ^esc (~esc-ape@178.115.128.222.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  477. # [11:52] * Joins: ^esc (~esc-ape@91.141.2.226.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
  478. # [12:00] * Joins: barnabywalters (~barnabywa@46-239-239-203.tal.is)
  479. # [12:02] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
  480. # [12:11] <darobin> what was the name of that proposal to have workers that could handle the layout of elements?
  481. # [12:12] <Ms2ger> "dumb"?
  482. # [12:12] <caitp> that's a bit rude mister twogy =)
  483. # [12:12] <darobin> hahaha
  484. # [12:17] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  485. # [12:19] <jgraham> I thought we were going with "optimistic"
  486. # [12:21] * Quits: espadrine` (~ttyl@AMontsouris-158-1-15-151.w92-128.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  487. # [12:23] <annevk> darobin: something with box/layout
  488. # [12:23] <darobin> annevk: yeah, but that's not showing anything up. I wonder if I only heard it orally
  489. # [12:24] <annevk> darobin: from the Extensible Web Summit page there should be a link to an oksoclap with a discussion
  490. # [12:24] <darobin> mmmm, thanks annevk, looking
  491. # [12:29] * Joins: espadrine` (~ttyl@AMontsouris-158-1-15-151.w92-128.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  492. # [12:30] <darobin> ah, found it in http://oksoclap.com/p/P3aS4GtR2L, it doesn't really have a name
  493. # [12:31] * Joins: dshwang (~dshwang@134.134.137.75)
  494. # [12:34] * Quits: victorbjelkholm (~victorbje@41.Red-83-60-204.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) (Quit: ZZZzzz…)
  495. # [12:42] * Joins: coolbot95 (~coolbot95@gateway/tor-sasl/coolbot95)
  496. # [13:03] * Quits: dshwang (~dshwang@134.134.137.75) (Remote host closed the connection)
  497. # [13:06] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  498. # [13:11] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@212.216-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  499. # [13:12] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@212.216-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
  500. # [13:20] * Quits: Streusel (~Anonymous@unaffiliated/streusel) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  501. # [13:20] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-xbfbwvvcafpqyheg)
  502. # [13:20] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-xbfbwvvcafpqyheg) (Changing host)
  503. # [13:20] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
  504. # [13:21] * Quits: espadrine` (~ttyl@AMontsouris-158-1-15-151.w92-128.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Leaving)
  505. # [13:23] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@212.216-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Quit: Leaving)
  506. # [13:23] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@212.216-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
  507. # [13:27] * Joins: dshwang (~dshwang@192.55.54.42)
  508. # [13:31] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  509. # [13:51] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@5.153.234.90) (Quit: Leaving.)
  510. # [13:53] * Joins: scor (scor@nat/acquia/x-vjqdrrtmtfghvare)
  511. # [13:53] * Quits: scor (scor@nat/acquia/x-vjqdrrtmtfghvare) (Changing host)
  512. # [13:53] * Joins: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  513. # [13:58] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  514. # [14:09] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@81.143.60.194)
  515. # [14:12] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@94.137.124.2)
  516. # [14:12] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@94.137.124.2) (Client Quit)
  517. # [14:17] * Quits: roven (~roven@78-20-24-80.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
  518. # [14:23] * Quits: ^esc (~esc-ape@91.141.2.226.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  519. # [14:24] * Joins: dylanlindgren (~kartstar@60-241-188-143.static.tpgi.com.au)
  520. # [14:30] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com)
  521. # [14:32] * Quits: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  522. # [14:32] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com)
  523. # [14:35] * Joins: tj_vantoll (~Adium@2601:4:5380:eba:7145:55be:b237:15f0)
  524. # [14:35] * Joins: encrypt__ (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com)
  525. # [14:36] <annevk> JakeA: shouldn't the Cache API be described outside of service workers if it's going to be distinct? I guess grouping them is fine for now...
  526. # [14:37] * Quits: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  527. # [14:37] <JakeA> annevk: yes, fetch() too
  528. # [14:37] <annevk> JakeA: yeah, I plan on starting work on fetch() real soon now
  529. # [14:37] <JakeA> \o/
  530. # [14:38] <JakeA> I need to spend some quality time with the fetch spec so I can figure out how default() works
  531. # [14:38] <annevk> I'm basically going through the bug lists for specs I maintain at the moment to make sure I can actually handle it all
  532. # [14:38] <JakeA> annevk: I'm worried we all have a slightly different idea on what default() does
  533. # [14:38] * Quits: encrypt__ (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  534. # [14:38] <annevk> JakeA: agreed (which is why I wanted to go through it in detail at the meeting)
  535. # [14:39] <annevk> JakeA: but we can have another meeting at some point, maybe in Europe this time
  536. # [14:39] <annevk> JakeA: in fact, how about Zürich
  537. # [14:39] <JakeA> agreed
  538. # [14:39] <JakeA> ohh, that could work
  539. # [14:39] * Joins: roven (~roven@78-20-24-80.access.telenet.be)
  540. # [14:39] <JakeA> I'm fine going out there, although it's a lot easier for me than the others
  541. # [14:39] <JakeA> annevk: having said that, I'm going to be in SF for Google I/O
  542. # [14:40] <annevk> no rush, Zürich works great for tobie too
  543. # [14:40] <JakeA> Sounds good. Never been to Zürich
  544. # [14:41] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com)
  545. # [14:43] * Quits: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  546. # [14:44] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com)
  547. # [14:44] * Quits: karlcow_ (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  548. # [14:44] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-5gp.pool-125-25.dynamic.totbb.net)
  549. # [14:48] * Quits: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  550. # [14:49] * Joins: karlcow_ (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  551. # [14:50] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com)
  552. # [14:50] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@q023013.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
  553. # [14:57] * Quits: tj_vantoll (~Adium@2601:4:5380:eba:7145:55be:b237:15f0) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  554. # [14:57] * Quits: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  555. # [14:58] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com)
  556. # [15:00] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@tsn85-159-236-214.dyn.nltelcom.net)
  557. # [15:01] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  558. # [15:03] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@184.175.16.140)
  559. # [15:03] * Joins: tj_vantoll (~Adium@c-98-250-130-237.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
  560. # [15:03] <annevk> MikeSmith: I filed another issue with UTS46 this time asking more explicitly for them to define a syntax for domain names
  561. # [15:03] * Quits: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  562. # [15:04] <annevk> MikeSmith: hasn't entered the public record yet I think
  563. # [15:04] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com)
  564. # [15:05] <annevk> MikeSmith: it will probably end up here: http://www.unicode.org/review/pri264/feedback.html
  565. # [15:06] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  566. # [15:08] * Quits: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  567. # [15:09] * Quits: tj_vantoll (~Adium@c-98-250-130-237.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  568. # [15:09] * Joins: tj_vantoll (~Adium@2601:4:5380:eba:7145:55be:b237:15f0)
  569. # [15:13] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com)
  570. # [15:15] * Quits: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  571. # [15:22] <MikeSmith> annevk: excellente
  572. # [15:24] <MikeSmith> annevk: "I suggest carefully reviewing the diffs."?
  573. # [15:24] <MikeSmith> who's he suggesting should review the diffs?
  574. # [15:24] <MikeSmith> oh nm
  575. # [15:24] <annevk> MikeSmith: yeah I got confused too, but that's not a reply but a separate piece of feedback :)
  576. # [15:25] <MikeSmith> yeah, I thought at first that was a response to your report
  577. # [15:26] <annevk> MikeSmith: https://gist.github.com/annevk/5465e886cf7c45db8a1d is my feedback
  578. # [15:27] * Joins: annevk5 (~annevk5@77-57-114-66.dclient.hispeed.ch)
  579. # [15:27] * Parts: annevk5 (~annevk5@77-57-114-66.dclient.hispeed.ch)
  580. # [15:29] * MikeSmith looks
  581. # [15:29] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  582. # [15:30] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com)
  583. # [15:33] * Quits: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  584. # [15:34] <MikeSmith> annevk: yeah for error messages that get emitted by checkers it would really help to have a declarative description to point to
  585. # [15:37] * Joins: Goplat (~goplat@reactos/developer/Goplat)
  586. # [15:39] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com)
  587. # [15:45] * Quits: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  588. # [15:45] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com)
  589. # [15:46] * Quits: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  590. # [15:46] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com)
  591. # [15:48] * Quits: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  592. # [15:49] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com)
  593. # [15:49] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-5gp.pool-125-25.dynamic.totbb.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  594. # [15:53] * Joins: JosephSilber (~Joseph@ool-44c3e80a.static.optonline.net)
  595. # [15:53] * Joins: encrypt__ (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com)
  596. # [15:53] * Quits: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  597. # [15:54] * Quits: coolbot95 (~coolbot95@gateway/tor-sasl/coolbot95) (Quit: coolbot95)
  598. # [15:54] * Joins: mven (~textual@ip68-104-38-84.lv.lv.cox.net)
  599. # [15:54] * Quits: mven (~textual@ip68-104-38-84.lv.lv.cox.net) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  600. # [15:55] * Quits: encrypt__ (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  601. # [15:55] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com)
  602. # [15:58] * Joins: encrypt__ (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com)
  603. # [15:59] * Quits: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@68-112-125-21.dhcp.stcd.mn.charter.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  604. # [16:00] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  605. # [16:00] * Quits: dylanlindgren (~kartstar@60-241-188-143.static.tpgi.com.au) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
  606. # [16:04] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
  607. # [16:08] <zewt> annevk: i wasn't expecting this, but XHR in FF with blob urls seems to do exactly what we ended up with, grabbing the blob at open() (at least in a very simple test)
  608. # [16:08] <zewt> don't know if it works in all cases (hard to test fully without some hack to force GC)
  609. # [16:09] <annevk> zewt: except per sicking Gecko doesn't do parse/fetch distinction
  610. # [16:09] <annevk> zewt: though on the other hand that'd be weird if you passed in an HTTP URL...
  611. # [16:09] <zewt> http://zewt.org/~glenn/test-grabbing-blob-url-references.html this passes in firefox, fails in chrome
  612. # [16:09] <annevk> zewt: you should submit some stuff to the platform test thingie, that's great
  613. # [16:09] <zewt> though chrome fails weirdly, it runs onload (not onerror)
  614. # [16:10] <annevk> zewt: thanks for helping us out arriving at a somewhat sane solution there
  615. # [16:10] * annevk still really dislikes blob URLs
  616. # [16:11] <zewt> hopefully if this blob URL thing gets traction we can then make the auto-revoke thing happen properly, and they'll be a lot saner, at least for users
  617. # [16:11] <zewt> hmm, actually if this stuff is implemented, then you could polyfill auto-revoke with just createAutoRevokeBlob = function(blob) { var url = URL.createObjectURL(url); setTimeout(function() { URL.revokeObjectURL(url); }, 0); return url; };
  618. # [16:20] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  619. # [16:21] * Joins: Kolombiken (~Adium@94.137.124.2)
  620. # [16:21] * Quits: Kolombiken (~Adium@94.137.124.2) (Remote host closed the connection)
  621. # [16:22] * Quits: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123) (Remote host closed the connection)
  622. # [16:23] * Joins: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123)
  623. # [16:25] <Domenic> annevk: wait, that is your feedback to them? Isn't the URL standard the most non-grammary thing around?
  624. # [16:25] <annevk> Domenic: I define the value space of schemes and things like that
  625. # [16:26] <annevk> Domenic: i.e. the syntax
  626. # [16:27] * Quits: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  627. # [16:27] <zewt> annevk: i was sad when I did new URL("custom-scheme://host.com/path") and everything but the scheme ended up in pathname :(
  628. # [16:27] <zewt> (in Chrome, didn't check if that's what the spec says)
  629. # [16:27] <annevk> zewt: URLs are sad
  630. # [16:28] <zewt> means I still have to carry around my own URL parser...
  631. # [16:28] <jgraham> zewt: http://hoppipolla.co.uk/410/xhr_blob.html fwiw (your test adapted to testharness.js format but with full domain names which will need to be removed for a PR)
  632. # [16:28] <zewt> jgraham: cool
  633. # [16:29] <zewt> jgraham: 2-space indentation is unreadable, though
  634. # [16:30] <jgraham> Yeah, it's not ideal. Do you want to turn this into a real PR or should I?
  635. # [16:31] <zewt> i don't know where they go (and I have to head to work at the moment)
  636. # [16:31] <jgraham> OK, I can do it
  637. # [16:31] <zewt> does it assume the test is done if any assertion fails?
  638. # [16:32] <jgraham> Yes
  639. # [16:32] * Joins: coolbot95 (~coolbot95@gateway/tor-sasl/coolbot95)
  640. # [16:32] <zewt> so if there was an assertion in a progress event or something, it'd need to be careful (since it would think the test is done when something is still running)
  641. # [16:32] <zewt> cool, just understanding the lifecycle
  642. # [16:33] <zewt> afk
  643. # [16:35] <annevk> jgraham: yay
  644. # [16:44] <annevk> Hahaha, https://twitter.com/g16n/status/469104662092992512 accusing Hixie of reusing <br> rather than <l> from XHTML2 on the basis of NIH
  645. # [16:44] <annevk> People are silly
  646. # [16:49] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.102)
  647. # [16:49] * Joins: ehsan_ (~ehsan@66.207.208.102)
  648. # [16:50] <jgraham> zewt: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1004
  649. # [16:53] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.102) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  650. # [16:54] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@184.175.16.140) (Remote host closed the connection)
  651. # [16:56] * Quits: jungkees (uid24208@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vxurpkglrgcumsik) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  652. # [16:57] <Ms2ger> annevk, no, NHI
  653. # [16:58] <annevk> Ms2ger: oh, well then it makes perfect sense
  654. # [16:59] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  655. # [17:00] <annevk> Domenic: mathiasbynens: Hixie: https://gist.github.com/annevk/3db3fbda2b95e5ae9427
  656. # [17:02] * Quits: Ducki (~Ducki@137.116.197.171) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  657. # [17:03] * Joins: espadrine (~ttyl@AMontsouris-158-1-15-151.w92-128.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  658. # [17:05] <Domenic> well, at least emotion markup is now fully covered by patent commitments.
  659. # [17:07] <annevk> Wait what?
  660. # [17:08] <annevk> Domenic: ooh, "No patent disclosures have been made for any specifications of this group."
  661. # [17:08] <annevk> Domenic: I thought this was much more hilarious/sad
  662. # [17:09] <annevk> They managed to create a namespace even more ugly than the HTML namespace. That's talent.
  663. # [17:10] <Domenic> it's a Rec; isn't that ever spec's dream?
  664. # [17:10] * Joins: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron)
  665. # [17:11] <annevk> I'm not proud http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-namespace/
  666. # [17:13] <annevk> Oh, seems Elika moved me to Former Editors while editing the document in place
  667. # [17:13] <annevk> "edited in place" isn't quite what it used to mean I guess
  668. # [17:13] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-5gp.pool-125-25.dynamic.totbb.net)
  669. # [17:15] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@q023013.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) (Quit: jdaggett)
  670. # [17:19] * Quits: JosephSilber (~Joseph@ool-44c3e80a.static.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  671. # [17:19] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-5gp.pool-125-25.dynamic.totbb.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  672. # [17:26] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginm.net)
  673. # [17:27] * Quits: markkes (~markkes@62.207.90.201) (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
  674. # [17:28] * Quits: bzed (~bzed@devel.recluse.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  675. # [17:28] * Joins: bzed (~bzed@devel.recluse.de)
  676. # [17:28] <Domenic> annevk: I don't understand the use case for https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=22343
  677. # [17:29] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  678. # [17:30] <Ms2ger> annevk, I thought replacing WebIDL was more of a TC39 -> platform request?
  679. # [17:30] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@123.239.68.29)
  680. # [17:31] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@123.239.68.29) (Client Quit)
  681. # [17:31] * Joins: eric_carlson_ (~eric@17.202.43.125)
  682. # [17:31] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@199.71.174.203)
  683. # [17:33] <jgraham> It's very unclear to me why the solution to "specification is undermaintained" is "start new specification from scratch"
  684. # [17:33] <annevk> Domenic: I'm not sure either, I think it's a hack around custom elements not being based upon subclassing
  685. # [17:34] * Quits: eric_carlson (~eric@17.202.43.125) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  686. # [17:34] * eric_carlson_ is now known as eric_carlson
  687. # [17:34] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Remote host closed the connection)
  688. # [17:43] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.210)
  689. # [17:46] * Quits: eric_carlson (~eric@17.202.43.125) (Quit: eric_carlson)
  690. # [17:49] * Quits: roven (~roven@78-20-24-80.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
  691. # [17:51] * Joins: eric_carlson (~eric@17.202.43.125)
  692. # [17:53] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  693. # [17:54] * Joins: Lachy_ (~Lachy@tmo-100-254.customers.d1-online.com)
  694. # [17:57] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@213.166.174.2) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  695. # [18:00] <annevk> TabAtkins: https://gist.github.com/annevk/3db3fbda2b95e5ae9427
  696. # [18:03] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
  697. # [18:04] * Quits: Goplat (~goplat@reactos/developer/Goplat) (Remote host closed the connection)
  698. # [18:05] * Joins: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-nzcmcgjfjxrhdilh)
  699. # [18:07] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@123.239.68.29)
  700. # [18:08] * Quits: ehsan_ (~ehsan@66.207.208.102) (Remote host closed the connection)
  701. # [18:09] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@199.71.174.203) (Quit: Leaving...)
  702. # [18:10] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@199.71.174.203)
  703. # [18:11] * Quits: Lachy_ (~Lachy@tmo-100-254.customers.d1-online.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  704. # [18:11] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@213.166.174.2)
  705. # [18:13] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@123.239.68.29) (Quit: BigBangUDR)
  706. # [18:14] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-4zh.pool-125-25.dynamic.totbb.net)
  707. # [18:15] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@213.166.174.2) (Client Quit)
  708. # [18:16] * Joins: Maurice` (copyman@5ED57922.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  709. # [18:20] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaaa2-74736162.cust.telenor.se)
  710. # [18:22] * Joins: ambv (~ambv@206.108.217.134)
  711. # [18:23] * Joins: Smylers1 (~smylers@81.143.60.194)
  712. # [18:25] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@81.143.60.194) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  713. # [18:26] * encrypt__ is now known as gungan_fuq
  714. # [18:27] * Quits: Smylers1 (~smylers@81.143.60.194) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  715. # [18:28] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  716. # [18:29] * Quits: Workshiva (~Dashiva@74.125.121.65) (Quit: Changing server)
  717. # [18:29] * Quits: gavinc_ (~gavin@barad-dur.carothers.name) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
  718. # [18:29] * Joins: gavinc_ (~gavin@barad-dur.carothers.name)
  719. # [18:30] * Joins: Workshiva (~Dashiva@74.125.121.65)
  720. # [18:30] * Joins: roven (~roven@78-20-24-80.access.telenet.be)
  721. # [18:39] * Quits: roven (~roven@78-20-24-80.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
  722. # [18:42] * Quits: barnabywalters (~barnabywa@46-239-239-203.tal.is) (Quit: barnabywalters)
  723. # [18:43] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaaa2-74736162.cust.telenor.se) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  724. # [18:54] * Joins: sankha93 (~sankha93@fsf/emeritus/sankha93)
  725. # [18:55] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@17.202.46.221)
  726. # [18:57] * Joins: SamB__ (~SamB@2001:470:1f07:57:e13c:db1c:8e8:d7d)
  727. # [18:59] * Quits: SamB_ (~SamB@2001:470:1f07:57:e13c:db1c:8e8:d7d) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  728. # [19:01] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  729. # [19:04] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.afb.bredband2.com)
  730. # [19:05] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  731. # [19:06] * Joins: arunranga (~otherarun@cpe-69-203-2-134.nyc.res.rr.com)
  732. # [19:08] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.102)
  733. # [19:09] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  734. # [19:09] <arunranga> annevk, do you think the Blob URL store should not be per unit of similar origin browsing contexts, to allow tainted cross-origin requests?
  735. # [19:13] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.102) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  736. # [19:13] * Quits: bnicholson (~bnicholso@24.130.57.109) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  737. # [19:14] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.afb.bredband2.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  738. # [19:15] * Joins: roven (~roven@78-20-24-80.access.telenet.be)
  739. # [19:15] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no)
  740. # [19:15] <arunranga> annevk, can’t think of how else to solve this for multi-process cross origin uses.
  741. # [19:18] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-254.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  742. # [19:18] <Domenic> annevk: bigints
  743. # [19:19] <annevk> Domenic: specifically for crypto?
  744. # [19:19] <annevk> arunranga: I think I'm in the camp that wants blob URLs to be origin-restricted now
  745. # [19:19] <annevk> arunranga: limiting their harm seems good
  746. # [19:19] <Domenic> annevk: probably not
  747. # [19:20] <annevk> Domenic: if it's not for crypto doesn't seem that important
  748. # [19:20] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  749. # [19:20] <arunranga> annevk, that would make things straightforward, since then we have all the pieces solved.
  750. # [19:20] <annevk> arunranga: apart from data URLs, but I guess that's not your problem
  751. # [19:21] <Domenic> annevk: ok, how about: a better cohesive story about error typing and detection
  752. # [19:22] <arunranga> annevk, yeah, the data URL problem seems hard, since 2007’s demonstrated hack
  753. # [19:22] <arunranga> annevk, cool, I’ll have an update that solves some of the bugs you logged and ping you for review.
  754. # [19:23] <annevk> Domenic: adding
  755. # [19:25] * Parts: arunranga (~otherarun@cpe-69-203-2-134.nyc.res.rr.com)
  756. # [19:26] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaaa2-74736162.cust.telenor.se)
  757. # [19:28] <annevk> JakeA: I guess like you need to understand Fetch, I need to study those SW algorithms a bit more
  758. # [19:28] <annevk> JakeA: will get back to you tomorrow
  759. # [19:31] * Joins: arunranga (~otherarun@cpe-69-203-2-134.nyc.res.rr.com)
  760. # [19:33] * Joins: IZh (~IZh@83.220.239.13)
  761. # [19:37] <IZh> Is there a guarantee that media.fastSeek will not jump after desired position?
  762. # [19:37] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaaa2-74736162.cust.telenor.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  763. # [19:37] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaaa2-74736162.cust.telenor.se)
  764. # [19:38] * Joins: llkats (~llkats@h-64-236-138-1.aoltw.net)
  765. # [19:39] * Joins: bnicholson (~bnicholso@corp.mtv2.mozilla.com)
  766. # [19:41] <annevk> Hmm, HTML imports reached beta
  767. # [19:44] <JakeA> annevk: those are the bits I know pretty well, so feel free to bug me
  768. # [19:44] <JakeA> (The SW thing, not the imports)
  769. # [19:48] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.afb.bredband2.com)
  770. # [19:53] * Quits: tj_vantoll (~Adium@2601:4:5380:eba:7145:55be:b237:15f0) (Quit: Leaving.)
  771. # [19:53] * Quits: fredy (~fredy@snf-8914.vm.okeanos.grnet.gr) (Excess Flood)
  772. # [19:53] * Quits: IZh (~IZh@83.220.239.13) (Remote host closed the connection)
  773. # [19:54] * Joins: IZh (~Igor_Zhba@0897578511.static.corbina.ru)
  774. # [19:56] * Joins: fredy (~fredy@snf-8914.vm.okeanos.grnet.gr)
  775. # [19:58] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-254.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  776. # [20:08] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-50-136-134-16.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: othermaciej)
  777. # [20:08] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  778. # [20:09] * Joins: tj_vantoll (~Adium@2601:4:5380:eba:f95f:8ae9:76cb:c93f)
  779. # [20:11] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  780. # [20:15] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@tsn85-159-236-214.dyn.nltelcom.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  781. # [20:16] * Joins: Smylers (~smylers@host86-140-155-113.range86-140.btcentralplus.com)
  782. # [20:17] <Hixie> annevk: if we're really gonna have to spec this event handling behaviour (which is really sad, i thought we'd eradicated that a few years ago), then i think the way to do it is for DOM to add a step before step 10 that invokes "the legacy event handler defined by the specification that defines the target, if any" on the target node
  783. # [20:18] * Joins: JosephSilber (~Joseph@ool-44c3e80a.static.optonline.net)
  784. # [20:21] <annevk> Hixie: many tears will be shed over that commit
  785. # [20:21] <Hixie> yeah no kidding
  786. # [20:21] <Hixie> i'm still skeptical it's actually required for compat
  787. # [20:21] <Hixie> maybe we can limit it to quirks mode or something, that's why i want to see urls
  788. # [20:22] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  789. # [20:22] <annevk> I think sicking might still be in our camp, but he obviously has no time to clean this up, maybe arv_ can find some free time
  790. # [20:23] <Ms2ger> Which?
  791. # [20:24] <annevk> Ms2ger: read https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12230 and weep
  792. # [20:24] <Ms2ger> :/
  793. # [20:25] <sicking> yeah, this is a pretty terrible setup
  794. # [20:26] <sicking> iirc there's quite a few events that cause actions to happen
  795. # [20:26] <sicking> i believe firing a "click" event (or maybe just some mouse events) on a <a> will also follow the link
  796. # [20:27] <sicking> I think Smaug was in favor of this behavior. I'm not sure if he still is
  797. # [20:27] <sicking> I really dislike it
  798. # [20:27] <Hixie> yeah it's pretty terrible and makes no sense, imho
  799. # [20:27] <Hixie> hoenstly i thought we'd eradicated it years ago
  800. # [20:28] <Hixie> otherwise i would have long specced it
  801. # [20:28] <sicking> oh hey, look at that, i've commented in the bug saying that :)
  802. # [20:28] <sicking> i think the way to go about it would be to get a group of implementers together and discuss
  803. # [20:29] <sicking> and then add telemetry
  804. # [20:29] <sicking> maybe telemetry would be the first step actually
  805. # [20:29] * smaug____ doesn't like the click behavior
  806. # [20:29] <JonathanNeal> Anyone here familiar with css matrix3d?
  807. # [20:30] <Hixie> i'd really like to know quite how widespread this behaviour is (in terms of what events on what targets can do something) and what pages depend on it
  808. # [20:30] <Hixie> i feel like i've just discovered ants in my bathroom and i'm not sure if it's a stray or if i have a nest in my walls
  809. # [20:31] <sicking> get Chrome and Gecko to add telemetry
  810. # [20:31] <smaug____> IIRC I broke quite a few web sites when synthetic click didn't cause link to be followed
  811. # [20:31] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.102)
  812. # [20:31] <sicking> sads
  813. # [20:33] <sicking> smaug____: did .click() still work when you made that change?
  814. # [20:34] <smaug____> IIRC there were to separate regressions
  815. # [20:34] <Hixie> i'm amazed that pages use dispatchEvent()
  816. # [20:34] <smaug____> s/to/two/
  817. # [20:34] <smaug____> I probably broke click, but dispatchEvent case was also needed to work
  818. # [20:35] <smaug____> and all the browsers do handle that case the same way
  819. # [20:35] <sicking> i still think it'd be interesting to get telemetry
  820. # [20:35] <sicking> things might have change since then. Either for the better or for the worse
  821. # [20:35] <smaug____> yup
  822. # [20:35] * smaug____ files a bug
  823. # [20:35] <sicking> hopefully heycam will finish the telemetry infrastructure he's working on at some point
  824. # [20:35] <Ms2ger> When is he getting back?
  825. # [20:36] <sicking> right now it's kind of a pain for us to gather data on how much a specific web feature is used as I understand it
  826. # [20:36] <sicking> (I don't understand why though)
  827. # [20:36] <sicking> Ms2ger: no idea
  828. # [20:36] <Ms2ger> 1 June, apparently
  829. # [20:36] <sicking> Ms2ger: also, when will you finish the 'id'/'class' bug? :)
  830. # [20:36] <Ms2ger> Ah, that
  831. # [20:37] <Ms2ger> Last time I think one of the B2G desktop builds failed with GetClassNameW things
  832. # [20:37] <Ms2ger> I need to check if that still happens
  833. # [20:37] <sicking> didn't Ehsan fix that for you long long ago?
  834. # [20:37] <ehsan> I did
  835. # [20:37] <Ms2ger> No, that was desktop Windows
  836. # [20:38] <ehsan> Ms2ger: still hitting issues?
  837. # [20:38] <Ms2ger> Perhaps
  838. # [20:38] <sicking> Ms2ger: my concern is that the longer we wait, the less likely it is that we can do it
  839. # [20:38] <Ms2ger> I'll push to try and see if it magically fixed itself
  840. # [20:38] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  841. # [20:38] <Ms2ger> sicking, yeah, fair
  842. # [20:38] <sicking> iirc there were some review comments too
  843. # [20:38] <Ms2ger> Too many balls in the air :/
  844. # [20:38] <sicking> but i didn't look at what they were
  845. # [20:39] <sicking> Ms2ger: if there are still build issues, paste a build error in the bug
  846. # [20:39] <Ms2ger> Yep, will do
  847. # [20:39] <ehsan> Ms2ger: also ping me if you needed help
  848. # [20:39] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: i got a reply from github to check out [1] http://developer.github.com/v3/#pagination
  849. # [20:39] <Ms2ger> And now you distracted from fixing that bug for bz...
  850. # [20:40] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: so fetch the urls in Link: also
  851. # [20:41] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: this is about w3c-test:mirror script not picking me up as collaborator
  852. # [20:42] <zcorpan> or maybe &per_page=1000 works
  853. # [20:42] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  854. # [20:43] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.afb.bredband2.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  855. # [20:43] <Ms2ger> It's clamped to 100, AIUI
  856. # [20:43] <Ms2ger> And I thought denis fixed that
  857. # [20:50] <Ms2ger> sicking, ehsan, alright, rebasing...
  858. # [20:50] <sicking> Ms2ger: thanks!
  859. # [20:52] <Hixie> annevk: 500 from tracker
  860. # [21:03] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.afb.bredband2.com)
  861. # [21:04] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.218.139)
  862. # [21:05] <ehsan> Ms2ger: /me holds breath
  863. # [21:06] <Ms2ger> Don't, our builds aren't that fast ;)
  864. # [21:06] <ehsan> lol
  865. # [21:07] <Ms2ger> And I haven't built locally, so... ;)
  866. # [21:10] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.27.150)
  867. # [21:24] <TabAtkins> annevk: What was that gist about?
  868. # [21:27] * Joins: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:304:b1a3:3ff4:ea4a:12f3)
  869. # [21:30] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaaa2-74736162.cust.telenor.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  870. # [21:32] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Quit: sicking)
  871. # [21:33] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@109.201.154.171)
  872. # [21:33] * Quits: IZh (~Igor_Zhba@0897578511.static.corbina.ru) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [SeaMonkey 2.26/20140428215944])
  873. # [21:40] * Joins: Igrsrolqak (john3213@static-72-66-66-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
  874. # [21:40] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.218.139) (Quit: weinig)
  875. # [21:40] * Quits: JosephSilber (~Joseph@ool-44c3e80a.static.optonline.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  876. # [21:43] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.afb.bredband2.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  877. # [21:43] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no)
  878. # [21:43] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.afb.bredband2.com)
  879. # [21:45] * Parts: Igrsrolqak (john3213@static-72-66-66-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
  880. # [21:47] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.27.150) (Quit: othermaciej)
  881. # [21:47] * Quits: llkats (~llkats@h-64-236-138-1.aoltw.net)
  882. # [21:47] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.218.139)
  883. # [21:47] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.27.150)
  884. # [21:48] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.afb.bredband2.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  885. # [21:50] * Joins: victorbjelkholm (~victorbje@41.Red-83-60-204.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
  886. # [21:51] * Joins: llkats (~llkats@h-64-236-138-1.aoltw.net)
  887. # [21:53] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@corp.mtv2.mozilla.com)
  888. # [21:57] <odinho> Can anyone quickly review some IndexedDB prev cursor? => https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/1621
  889. # [21:57] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  890. # [21:57] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.218.139) (Quit: weinig)
  891. # [21:58] * Joins: jeremyj_ (~jeremyj@17.245.27.75)
  892. # [21:59] * Quits: jeremyj_ (~jeremyj@17.245.27.75) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  893. # [21:59] * Joins: jeremyj_ (~jeremyj@17.245.27.75)
  894. # [22:00] * Quits: jeremyj (~jeremyj@17.202.44.231) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  895. # [22:08] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  896. # [22:10] * Quits: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  897. # [22:11] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.5.151)
  898. # [22:14] * Quits: llkats (~llkats@h-64-236-138-1.aoltw.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  899. # [22:17] * Joins: llkats (~llkats@h-64-236-138-4.aoltw.net)
  900. # [22:22] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no)
  901. # [22:22] * Joins: tndrH (~Rob@cpc4-seac20-2-0-cust858.7-2.cable.virginm.net)
  902. # [22:24] * Joins: ahf (ahf@irssi/staff/ahf)
  903. # [22:28] * Joins: lilmonkey` (~colin@5ED090B0.cm-7-1c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  904. # [22:28] * Quits: lilmonkey` (~colin@5ED090B0.cm-7-1c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Changing host)
  905. # [22:28] * Joins: lilmonkey` (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  906. # [22:29] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  907. # [22:29] * Quits: lilmonkey (~colin@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  908. # [22:31] * Quits: jeremyj_ (~jeremyj@17.245.27.75) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  909. # [22:33] * Joins: jeremyj (~jeremyj@17.202.44.231)
  910. # [22:33] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@17.202.43.222)
  911. # [22:36] * Joins: IZh (~IZh@0897578511.static.corbina.ru)
  912. # [22:36] * Quits: IZh (~IZh@0897578511.static.corbina.ru) (Client Quit)
  913. # [22:37] * Joins: IZh (~IZh@0897578511.static.corbina.ru)
  914. # [22:37] <IZh> Does html5 support 3D videos?
  915. # [22:37] <annevk> TabAtkins: see title of it
  916. # [22:37] <Hixie> html (not html5, we dropped the version number years ago) is agnostic to the exact video codec used
  917. # [22:40] <IZh> I mean, often there are no any marks in the video stream itself that it is 3D. Even hardware players needs a hint from human to figure what type of encoding is used -- top-bottom halves of the frame or left-right.
  918. # [22:41] <IZh> So the the player needs to be told in some way that this url points to 3D video, for example, with top-bottom frames encoding.
  919. # [22:41] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no)
  920. # [22:42] <IZh> Because often a 3D video could be played just as ordinary 2D. There are no special file formats for it, as I know.
  921. # [22:43] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  922. # [22:43] <IZh> So the browser itself can't guess whether it is a 3D-file or not. Probably some parameter is needed.
  923. # [22:44] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Client Quit)
  924. # [22:44] <Hixie> there's nothing like that in html currently
  925. # [22:44] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.5.151) (Quit: weinig)
  926. # [22:44] * Joins: scor (~scor@c-24-2-162-32.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  927. # [22:44] * Quits: scor (~scor@c-24-2-162-32.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) (Changing host)
  928. # [22:44] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  929. # [22:46] <odinho> But there is a bug about showing more metadata waiting for vendor feedback. :]
  930. # [22:46] <IZh> And it's hard to stick this parameter to a particular codec because 3D video can be incoded with any codec.
  931. # [22:50] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.210)
  932. # [22:50] <IZh> Currently there are following encoding that I know: squize left and right frame horizontally (and expand while playing), the same but vertically. These are most used variants. Also it's possible to interleave left and right frames, use double sized frame (left-right or top-bottom) and use 2 separate video streams. All these things could be put to ordinary file. That's why some metadata needed.
  933. # [22:51] <IZh> Squize = squeeze
  934. # [22:51] <Hixie> Domenic: if a promise gets garbage collected, does it reject, or just do nothing forever?
  935. # [22:52] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.210)
  936. # [22:55] <Hixie> man, a lot of the code i'm seeing where people use promises to show how simple things are with promises are... not simple
  937. # [22:56] <Hixie> lots of reducing and chaining callbacks and code of the form blabla(very-long-lambda-that-spans-many-lines, anotherargument)
  938. # [22:57] <zewt> lambdas have no place in any language with inline functions (javascript)
  939. # [22:57] <Hixie> how are those not the same thing
  940. # [22:57] <zewt> lambdas are just a dumb restricted form of inline functions, no point in having them if you have real inline functions
  941. # [22:58] <Philip`> Do you mean Python-style lambdas where there's a distinction between expressions and statements, and lambdas can only contain expressions?
  942. # [22:58] <jgraham> Isn't that just python's "lambda" rather than lambdas in general?
  943. # [22:58] <Hixie> ok well i just meant an inline function
  944. # [22:58] <zewt> most "promises" examples I see are very unobvious to me, which makes me nervous about them
  945. # [22:58] <annevk> smaug____: what's the bug ID?
  946. # [22:58] <Philip`> (Proper languages don't have that restriction)
  947. # [22:58] <annevk> smaug____: for the synthetic events thing you filed earlier
  948. # [22:58] <jgraham> Oh, it's Philip`
  949. # [22:59] <Hixie> (wikipedia seems to agree with my usage of the term, fwiw)
  950. # [22:59] <Philip`> jgraham: That's statistically unlikely
  951. # [22:59] <zewt> "lambda" in programming languages means "an inline function that's just a single expression", eg. function(args) { return %1; }
  952. # [23:00] <zewt> anyway
  953. # [23:00] <jgraham> Philip`: I think we need P(Philip`|data) rather than just p(Philip`)
  954. # [23:00] <Hixie> not according to wikipedia...
  955. # [23:00] <zewt> wikipedia is wrong, then
  956. # [23:00] <smaug____> annevk: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1014762
  957. # [23:01] <jgraham> I'm pretty sure that "lambda" is just a fancy word for "anonymous function" that makes people feel like they are doing abstract mathematics when in fact they ae just writing yet another DOM wrapper library (or something)
  958. # [23:02] <Hixie> i'm not finding anything that supports limiting lambdas to just an expression, except in lambda calculus, where everything is just an expression anyway.
  959. # [23:02] <Philip`> zewt: So C++11 lambda expressions and Java lambda expressions are not lambdas, because you can put multiple statements in them?
  960. # [23:03] <Hixie> also i've now officially read the word "lambda" too many times in a row and it's lost its meaning and looks silly.
  961. # [23:03] <zewt> Philip`: "anonymous functions being called the wrong thing"
  962. # [23:03] <zewt> Hixie: it looks pretty silly to start with...
  963. # [23:04] <annevk> I guess I need to find some time to write a better web-apps-tracker :/
  964. # [23:04] <annevk> I wish someone would take over, but apparently nobody is annoyed enough
  965. # [23:04] * Quits: llkats (~llkats@h-64-236-138-4.aoltw.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  966. # [23:05] * Quits: IZh (~IZh@0897578511.static.corbina.ru) (Remote host closed the connection)
  967. # [23:05] <Hixie> so what's the state of the art with JS modules these days
  968. # [23:05] <Hixie> is there something that makes sense yet?
  969. # [23:05] <Hixie> is there something i can integrate with yet?
  970. # [23:06] * Joins: llkats (~llkats@h-64-236-138-1.aoltw.net)
  971. # [23:06] <annevk> Hixie: I would wait until browsers start implementing
  972. # [23:06] <annevk> Hixie: the spec only recently "finished"
  973. # [23:06] <zewt> (grr: building in Unity takes a couple minutes, and when I tab over to IRC because I'm twiddling my thumbs waiting, Xcode steals focus 4-5 times during the build process)
  974. # [23:07] <Hixie> annevk: oh there's something that people think is finished? where? i couldn't find any recent links.
  975. # [23:07] <zewt> (then something I'm typing on IRC gets vomited into a source file, breaking the build)
  976. # [23:07] <annevk> Hixie: oh it seems ES6 still has some todos
  977. # [23:08] <Hixie> is one of those todos "tell hixie about it"
  978. # [23:08] <annevk> Hixie: there's also https://people.mozilla.org/~jorendorff/js-loaders/Loader.html
  979. # [23:08] <annevk> Hixie: not sure
  980. # [23:08] <jorendorff> what don't look at that
  981. # [23:08] <zewt> W:D
  982. # [23:09] <jorendorff> Hixie, annevk: well, for your purposes actually it's not *that* terrible
  983. # [23:09] <Hixie> i'm hoping it's not terrible at all :-)
  984. # [23:09] <jorendorff> but expect bugs and api changes
  985. # [23:09] <Hixie> i just want to know how to integrate it with my <script> preloading/dependency stuff, and <script type=module> and so forth.
  986. # [23:10] <Hixie> not to mention html imports
  987. # [23:10] <Hixie> cos i don't want to end up with two or three entirely separate dependency chain management systems on the web
  988. # [23:10] <jorendorff> uh huh
  989. # [23:10] <Hixie> which right now seems to be where we're headed
  990. # [23:10] <jorendorff> well, this Loader stuff is definitely async depenedency chain management
  991. # [23:11] * Quits: tj_vantoll (~Adium@2601:4:5380:eba:f95f:8ae9:76cb:c93f) (Quit: Leaving.)
  992. # [23:15] <jorendorff> Hixie: do you want a primer or would you rather read that code
  993. # [23:15] <annevk> nn
  994. # [23:15] <Hixie> jorendorff: i'd rather read a spec
  995. # [23:15] <Hixie> if there is one
  996. # [23:15] <jorendorff> Hixie: it's in the ES6 spec but afaict totally unreadable
  997. # [23:15] <jorendorff> it's impossible to tell what's going on
  998. # [23:15] <Hixie> well that's encouraging
  999. # [23:16] <Hixie> if you have a moment, i can ask you some questions
  1000. # [23:16] <jorendorff> I do
  1001. # [23:16] <Ms2ger> jorendorff, you're repeating yourself ;)
  1002. # [23:16] <Hixie> the first one would be, "what are the use cases that this thing is for?"
  1003. # [23:16] * Quits: Maurice` (copyman@5ED57922.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  1004. # [23:16] <Hixie> like, what is the space that "Modules" are intended to address?
  1005. # [23:17] * Quits: karlcow_ (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Quit: :tiuQ tiuq sah woclrak)
  1006. # [23:17] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  1007. # [23:18] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@17.202.46.221) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  1008. # [23:19] <Ms2ger> Consensus
  1009. # [23:19] <jorendorff> Hixie: so the champions are dave herman and sam tobin-hochstadt and you should ask those guys; the use case I care about is "like require.js but with better syntax"
  1010. # [23:19] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  1011. # [23:19] <jorendorff> it's for getting JS into a web page,
  1012. # [23:19] <jorendorff> in such a way that you can separately configure where it's loading from / how it's loading
  1013. # [23:19] <jorendorff> changing deployment without having to change your code
  1014. # [23:20] <Hixie> how do you mean "where" and "how"?
  1015. # [23:20] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no)
  1016. # [23:20] <jorendorff> related
  1017. # [23:20] <jorendorff> what protocol, what file format
  1018. # [23:20] <zewt> jorendorff: eg. "switch from loading jquery-1.2.3.js from the jquery website to our trusted bucket on S3"?
  1019. # [23:20] <Hixie> file format?
  1020. # [23:20] <jorendorff> yep
  1021. # [23:20] <Hixie> like, javascript vs dart?
  1022. # [23:21] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  1023. # [23:21] <jorendorff> Hixie: i meant "hundreds of .js files vs. a single zip file"
  1024. # [23:21] <jorendorff> but the module system also has a hook for different languages
  1025. # [23:21] <Hixie> js modules supports sending files as zip files?
  1026. # [23:21] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@17.202.46.221)
  1027. # [23:21] <zewt> (hope not, that's the wrong layer for that)
  1028. # [23:21] <Hixie> that seems like an odd place to fix that problem...
  1029. # [23:21] <jorendorff> Hixie: not natively, but the part of the module system where we load code is literally just a fetch hook
  1030. # [23:21] <jorendorff> which we call
  1031. # [23:22] <zewt> (better)
  1032. # [23:22] <Hixie> ok, hold on
  1033. # [23:22] <jorendorff> and it returns a promise for the code
  1034. # [23:22] <Hixie> let's try this from a different angle.
  1035. # [23:22] <Hixie> what does modules provide?
  1036. # [23:22] <Hixie> cos what you've described so far seems redundant with <script> and service workers. :-)
  1037. # [23:23] * Quits: llkats (~llkats@h-64-236-138-1.aoltw.net)
  1038. # [23:23] <jorendorff> import/export syntax, an object model for Modules, and an API for loading them
  1039. # [23:23] <zewt> (seems strange to add *syntax* for something like this)
  1040. # [23:23] <Hixie> tell me more about this API
  1041. # [23:24] <TabAtkins> The main use case to me is fixing the "there's no way for a script to include another script sanely" problem.
  1042. # [23:24] <zewt> (it'd probably keep anyone from using it for years, since syntax is hard or impossible to polyfill)
  1043. # [23:24] <Hixie> is there really not a spec i can look at for this
  1044. # [23:25] <TabAtkins> You have to either bake all the script files you need into your html, or use a preprocessor to manually include them, or use s library like require.js
  1045. # [23:26] <jorendorff> Hixie: ES6, search for Reflect.Loader
  1046. # [23:26] <TabAtkins> annevk: I got the title, yes. Why did you name-mention me with it, though?
  1047. # [23:26] <Hixie> "The initialize value of Reflect.Loader is the %Loader% intrinsic object."
  1048. # [23:26] <Hixie> man you're right, this is worse than html
  1049. # [23:26] <Ms2ger> They particularly like their weird characters
  1050. # [23:27] <zewt> D:
  1051. # [23:27] <Hixie> "The @@create method of a Reflect.Loader function object F performs the following steps: [...] 2. Let obj be the result of calling OrdinaryCreateFromConstructor(F, "%LoaderPrototype%", ([[LoaderRecord]]))."
  1052. # [23:28] <jorendorff> it's all microcode
  1053. # [23:28] <Ms2ger> Bingo!
  1054. # [23:28] <Ms2ger> jorendorff, it's microperl
  1055. # [23:28] <jorendorff> ReturnIfAbrupt everywhere
  1056. # [23:28] <jorendorff> even in perl you could `die`
  1057. # [23:28] <Hixie> well ok this didn't help. bummer.
  1058. # [23:28] <Hixie> are there like, examples somewhere?
  1059. # [23:28] <zewt> Hixie: i have to worry that these are the people making syntax changes to JS...
  1060. # [23:29] <Hixie> zewt: i'm sure it makes sense to JS implementors
  1061. # [23:29] <Hixie> zewt: i mean, the HTML spec often looks the same way when i'm first writing a section
  1062. # [23:29] <jorendorff> zewt: That is just random snark
  1063. # [23:29] <Ms2ger> Random snark is what #whatwg is known for :)
  1064. # [23:29] <zewt> nope, it isn't
  1065. # [23:29] <Hixie> i mean, i have concerns over were js is going, but this isn't why :-)
  1066. # [23:29] <zewt> it's "if someone likes this as a syntax, keep their hands off of the JS syntax"
  1067. # [23:30] <Hixie> nah, that's not fair
  1068. # [23:30] <jorendorff> zewt: but the person deciding how the spec is written is the editor, and the people deciding how JS looks is the committee
  1069. # [23:30] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  1070. # [23:31] <Hixie> an architect might be terrible at building things with wood and nails, but still design beautiful houses
  1071. # [23:31] <Hixie> i really don't have a clue what this spec is telling me though
  1072. # [23:31] <jorendorff> Hixie: please talk to yehuda katz
  1073. # [23:32] <Ms2ger> wycats, ^
  1074. # [23:33] <Hixie> this module system is all done in JS itself, right
  1075. # [23:34] <jorendorff> Hixie: there are two ways for JS code to ask for other JS code. syntax and API. The syntax is import-declarations. The API is mostly just Reflect.Loader.{define,import}.
  1076. # [23:34] <jorendorff> Hixie: we're going to self-host it, yeah
  1077. # [23:34] <Hixie> so there's no way for a module to have declared dependencies before it's started executing?
  1078. # [23:34] <jorendorff> Hixie: the syntax is declarative
  1079. # [23:34] <jorendorff> and only declarative
  1080. # [23:34] <Hixie> but you have to be parsing it before you know of the dependencies
  1081. # [23:35] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@109.201.154.171) (Quit: Leaving.)
  1082. # [23:35] <jorendorff> Hixie: I don't understand, what sort of alternative do you have in mind?
  1083. # [23:35] <Hixie> it doesn't have an equivalent of <script src=a.js></script> <script src=b.js needs=a.js>
  1084. # [23:35] <Hixie> where even before you've contacted the server for b.js, you know you need to first fetch a.js
  1085. # [23:36] <jorendorff> the JS equivalent would be something like import a from "a"; import b from "b";
  1086. # [23:37] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  1087. # [23:37] <jorendorff> not sure what the needs= thing is trying to say
  1088. # [23:37] <Hixie> needs="" says "before you execute me, make sure you've executed that other thing"
  1089. # [23:38] <jorendorff> imports do that
  1090. # [23:38] <Hixie> but if b says "import a from 'a'", and you just have <script src=a.js></script> <script src=b.js></script>, you have no way to know that b needs a before b has been downloaded, right?
  1091. # [23:39] <jorendorff> b doesn't start executing until after it has been parsed though
  1092. # [23:39] <JonathanNeal> I’m about to make another post on specifiction about SVG files and would love any preliminary feedback before I post. https://gist.github.com/jonathantneal/1fc6a43f4fa8f448a368
  1093. # [23:39] <zewt> jorendorff: but if it does it *within* the script itself, you have to download the script before you can start downloading its dependencies, which would kill page load performance
  1094. # [23:39] <Hixie> jorendorff: sure
  1095. # [23:40] <jorendorff> as code comes in off the network, you parse it and see what else it needs; maybe you've already got it, maybe it's already loading, maybe you've never heard of it until now
  1096. # [23:40] <zewt> right, that means no pipelining, which means terrible performance
  1097. # [23:40] <Hixie> jorendorff: right but if you're trying to not download code that you don't need, that doesn't work
  1098. # [23:41] <jorendorff> I still don't understand what needs= is doing
  1099. # [23:41] <Hixie> jorendorff: say that A is used by B and D, and B is used by C, and you don't want to download anything you don't need, and then suddenly you find you need C. You tell C to execute, and the browser immediately downloads A, B, and C, and executes them in that order once it's got them.
  1100. # [23:42] <Hixie> jorendorff: and then later you find you need D, and A's already executed so it's left alone, but D needs to be downloaded and executed and so that happens.
  1101. # [23:42] <Hixie> jorendorff: do modules have a way to say what will need to be executed when you find you need C, without previously having downloaded A, B, C, or D?
  1102. # [23:42] <Hixie> s/executed/downloaded and executed/
  1103. # [23:43] <jorendorff> Hixie: let me make sure i understand first -- <script src=b.js needs=a.js></script> means *don't* load b.js yet?
  1104. # [23:44] <Hixie> jorendorff: well it doesn't mean anything precise yet. the exact syntax for the example i gave in the old proposal i had last year was more like <script src=b.js needs=a.js whenneeded>
  1105. # [23:44] <Hixie> jorendorff: but i expect if a proposal comes out of this it will be different again
  1106. # [23:44] <jorendorff> k
  1107. # [23:45] <Hixie> jorendorff: the key is just having the dependency chain defined outside the script
  1108. # [23:45] <jorendorff> huh... the people we spoke to -- and i'm not a web dev, so, who knows -- but the web devs we talked to wanted the opposite, they wanted to push the code they knew the client needed
  1109. # [23:45] <jorendorff> eagerly
  1110. # [23:45] * Quits: sankha93 (~sankha93@fsf/emeritus/sankha93) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1111. # [23:45] <Hixie> oh i have people who've asked for every possible combination possible
  1112. # [23:45] * Quits: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  1113. # [23:45] <jorendorff> so that later, when someone did .import("C"), there was the best chance of its already having been loaded
  1114. # [23:45] <Hixie> i'm currently dealing with use cases labeled "L" through "Z"
  1115. # [23:45] <Hixie> that's how many there are :-)
  1116. # [23:46] <zewt> jorendorff: the "needs" mechanism allows that, the key difference is it lets you start downloading any or all of the dependencies without earlier deps needing to be fetched already
  1117. # [23:46] <jorendorff> then there were the people who were like "HTTP2, therefore your argument is invalid"
  1118. # [23:46] <Hixie> jorendorff: so the short answer is no?
  1119. # [23:46] <jorendorff> Hixie: yeah, it's a no. the hooks are there so you could add it as a library, but no
  1120. # [23:46] <Hixie> jorendorff: is there a way I can hook into the module system to provide this data from the needs="" attribute?
  1121. # [23:46] <jorendorff> Hixie: yeah, lemme think
  1122. # [23:47] <zewt> Hixie: yeah, i can see the value of being able to declare dependencies within scripts... depends on whether you care more about pipelining performance or encapsulation, I guess
  1123. # [23:48] <zewt> most people probably care about both, but they seem like incompatible goals...
  1124. # [23:48] <jorendorff> zewt: but if you know the dependency tree, it's trivial to just ask for everything you're going to need
  1125. # [23:48] <jorendorff> also, if you have the dependencies in the code, you can extract them statically if you want to do stuff
  1126. # [23:48] <zewt> jorendorff: where would you learn the dependency tree, if that lives inside the scripts themselves? that's exactly what "needs" is doing
  1127. # [23:49] <jorendorff> zewt: needs isn't doing that for web developers, it's providing a way for them to express that information -- which they must figure out themselves somehow
  1128. # [23:49] <jorendorff> right?
  1129. # [23:49] <zewt> i guess you could use both: declare your real dependencies inside the script, then have your profiler/validator/whatever tell you "here are the dependencies you should add to your <script> to make this faster"
  1130. # [23:49] <jorendorff> the dependencies themselves are always in the code...
  1131. # [23:50] <zewt> jorendorff: in the previous @needs proposal, there were no dependencies in the code at all--@needs *was* the dependency declaration
  1132. # [23:50] <zewt> (which again, means you lose encapsulation)
  1133. # [23:50] <jorendorff> zewt: no i mean as a plain fact of life, dependencies are where one bit of code depends on another, and that's in the code
  1134. # [23:51] <zewt> jorendorff: that's the underlying requirement, but the "dependencies" we're discussing are dependency declarations
  1135. # [23:51] <jsbell> odinho: just saw your ping about idb prev cursor - looking now
  1136. # [23:51] <jorendorff> Hixie: sorry, distracted. the loader pipeline is all exposed, it's a series of hooks that the Loader calls
  1137. # [23:52] <Hixie> jorendorff: does the loader do any dependency management?
  1138. # [23:52] <jsbell> odinho: Not that I have any magic status, but I can sanity check at least :)
  1139. # [23:52] <Hixie> jorendorff: i'd like for there to be one piece of code in the web platform that knows to dispatch requests and so on based on dependencies, that supports HTML Imports, <script needs>, JS modules, and anything else we add later
  1140. # [23:53] <jorendorff> Hixie: that sounds good, and Loader isn't it in the do-one-thing-do-it-well sense
  1141. # [23:53] <jorendorff> Hixie: you can't tell a Loader what dependencies are in advance; but
  1142. # [23:54] * Joins: Rastus_Vernon (uid15187@wikimedia/Rastus-Vernon)
  1143. # [23:54] <jorendorff> Hixie: if you know what they are, your fetch() hook can say, ah, i see he is fetching C, I happen to know it'll need A and B, so let me just call this.import("A") and this.import("B")
  1144. # [23:54] <jorendorff> which will get those started loading too
  1145. # [23:54] <odinho> jsbell: Ahh, that's awesome Joshua :D
  1146. # [23:55] <zewt> i imagine you'd want to be able to find out all of the dependencies in advance, even if some aren't being fetched yet?
  1147. # [23:55] * htmelvis is now known as htmelvis_zzz
  1148. # [23:56] <Hixie> jorendorff: but there's no way i can also say "btw, if anything tells you to load A, can you tell me to load this image over here and that style sheet over there"?
  1149. # [23:56] <odinho> jsbell: Was looking for a test to show Marc, but saw that it didn't exist. So thought I'd just quickly create one.
  1150. # [23:56] <jorendorff> Hixie: no, nothing like that
  1151. # [23:56] <jorendorff> just the hooks
  1152. # [23:56] <Hixie> jorendorff: any chance we can move the logic out of JS so that JS hooks into a system that _does_ provide all that?
  1153. # [23:56] <JonathanNeal> Well, if any of you have started using SVGs, I’ve prompted discussion to simplify the markup http://discourse.specifiction.org/t/simple-svg-markup/92 https://twitter.com/jon_neal/status/469597460793262080
  1154. # [23:56] <jsbell> odinho: Yeah, I made a jsfiddle but then it wasn't loading in FF for some reason. Did you notice any failures in any browsers?
  1155. # [23:56] <jorendorff> Hixie: personally I don't have the weight to give you an answer to that
  1156. # [23:57] <jorendorff> Hixie: sounds lovely to me
  1157. # [23:58] <odinho> jsbell: Only have Opera, Chrome and Firefox, -- but passes in all of those.
  1158. # [23:58] <jorendorff> Hixie: the problem is the system was designed for loading these JS module things and so it tries not to expose stuff before it has executed and is ready. An image is easier in that it won't have dependencies
  1159. # [23:58] <jorendorff> you can expose it before all the other junk is loaded, no problem
  1160. # [23:58] <Hixie> jorendorff: well, an image might have dependencies. It could be an SVG file that loads scripts...
  1161. # [23:58] <odinho> I'd check the others if I'd been at work with access to non-Linux machines :)
  1162. # [23:59] <Hixie> or an HTML import that loads a style sheet that binds a web component that loads scripts that...
  1163. # [23:59] <zewt> stylesheets with @imports
  1164. # [23:59] <jorendorff> Hixie: yeah, that's totally right, let me think about it a sec
  1165. # [23:59] <jsbell> odinho: I recall that continue() in reverse over an index is a bit "odd" but continue() and advance() should match even in that case... so I dunno what Marc was seeing.
  1166. # [23:59] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Quit: :tiuQ tiuq sah woclrak)
  1167. # Session Close: Fri May 23 00:00:00 2014

The end :)