/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-06-03 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  32. # [00:46] <zewt> does that mean "specify the things that need to be specified and not just the ones I like"
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  73. # [01:55] <slightlyoff> hey annevk, wanted to chat about fetch API
  74. # [01:55] <slightlyoff> specifically about isSynchronous in the API
  75. # [01:55] <slightlyoff> and the body property
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  77. # [01:56] <slightlyoff> we'd talked about a toBlob() on the response to hand back a promise or similar so that we can get out of the contract that requires synchronous reification
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  97. # [02:31] <zewt> dear microsoft: stop deliberately ignoring the vocabulary of the entirely software industry and using your own
  98. # [02:31] <zewt> re: calling localization "globalization"
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  100. # [02:33] <a-ja> g12n
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  102. # [02:33] <zewt> :|
  103. # [02:34] <a-ja> erm...g11n
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  203. # [07:47] <annevk> hey slightlyoff
  204. # [07:47] <annevk> slightlyoff, isSynchronous was mostly about exposing what the main thread was doing
  205. # [07:48] <annevk> slightlyoff: e.g. if you want to log synchronous XHR requests
  206. # [07:48] <annevk> slightlyoff: it's not mutable
  207. # [07:48] <annevk> slightlyoff: and I'm totally with you on asynchronous access to .body, .toBlob() seems a bit ugly though, I wonder if we can do better
  208. # [07:50] <annevk> slightlyoff: feel free to file tickets somewhere on me
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  218. # [08:17] <zcorpan> annevk: allowsameorigindataurl is quite long. any reason allowdataurl doesn't work?
  219. # [08:18] <annevk> zcorpan: other than not being quite as clear, can't really think of anything
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  223. # [08:19] <zcorpan> i'm not convinced it's clear to people what "same-origin data url" means
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  234. # [08:49] <karlcow> allowsameorigindataurlandreadthespecifyoudontunderstandwhatitmeans
  235. # [08:50] <annevk> karlcow: you had to abbreviate specification?
  236. # [08:50] <karlcow> hmm good point, this leads to ambiguity. I need to fix that ;)
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  257. # [09:32] <annevk> tobie: only Map.prototype.set seems to return this
  258. # [09:32] <annevk> tobie: in any event, seems like a separate issue from how to represent headers
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  261. # [09:40] <annevk> Oh, Safari has IndexedDB and SPDY now
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  270. # [10:07] <JakeA> annevk: slightlyoff: There's a ticket on the toBlob stuff https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/issues/251
  271. # [10:08] <JakeA> I still kinda like .to(type)
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  275. # [10:26] <annevk> JakeA: bodyAs(type) maybe?
  276. # [10:27] <annevk> JakeA: seems so weird to not name the member
  277. # [10:29] <annevk> JakeA: you back from the protests now?
  278. # [10:29] <annevk> JakeA: would be great to nail down this API
  279. # [10:29] <annevk> JakeA: headers and body are the main difficulties
  280. # [10:35] <JakeA> annevk: yep, back! Got to do a bit of video work at some point, but mostly free
  281. # [10:35] <annevk> JakeA: I'll have more time starting 2:30PM or so
  282. # [10:35] <annevk> JakeA: which is 1:30PM your time
  283. # [10:36] <JakeA> annevk: Works for me. I'll catch up on all the stuff
  284. # [10:36] <annevk> cool
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  309. # [12:26] <MikeSmith> for those who like validation, SteveF made a bookmarklet that lets you validate the serialized DOM for any given document
  310. # [12:26] <MikeSmith> http://codepen.io/stevef/full/LasCJ/
  311. # [12:28] <MikeSmith> it uses http://validator.w3.org/nu/ but you could change it to use http://html5.validator.nu/ just by changing the URL in the source and everything else will just work the same
  312. # [12:28] <MikeSmith> oh
  313. # [12:28] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: http://validator.nu/ and http://html5.validator.nu/ both seem to be down still
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  346. # [14:49] <JakeA> annevk: brace for questions. Number 1: What does headers .getAll return?
  347. # [14:49] <JakeA> annevk: I'm guessing [['key', 'val'], ['key', 'val'], ...]?
  348. # [14:50] <JakeA> annevk: Whatever it is, having it as a constructor would be nice
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  353. # [15:03] <JakeA> annevk: Agree with others re lowercase in enums
  354. # [15:04] <JakeA> annevk: "CORS-with-forced-preflight" to "cors-force-preflight"
  355. # [15:06] <darobin> in the platform's great tradition we could make it CORS-with-Forced-PreFlight
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  357. # [15:08] <JakeA> annevk: which requests have mode "tainted cross-origin"?
  358. # [15:10] <JakeA> darobin: "API security: strong"
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  360. # [15:14] <zcorpan> JakeA: <img>, <video>, <link rel=stylesheet>... <track> (and maybe webfonts?) use "fail cross-origin" or what it's called
  361. # [15:15] <Domenic> JakeA: I think .getAll should return ['val', 'val', 'val', ...] most likely
  362. # [15:15] <Domenic> (since it takes a key)
  363. # [15:16] <JakeA> Domenic: ah yes, I missed the arg
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  368. # [15:21] <JakeA> zcorpan: gotcha. Huh, so even with CORS headers, I won't be able able to get at the structure of an other-origin stylesheet? *learning*
  369. # [15:22] <zcorpan> JakeA: no, tainting is when you have an other-origin stylesheet without CORS headers
  370. # [15:23] <zcorpan> JakeA: the style sheet is applied but you can't access the CSSOM
  371. # [15:23] <JakeA> zcorpan: But with CORS headers you can?
  372. # [15:24] <zcorpan> yeah. at least that's the intent in the spec, but the spec might be a bit broken there and i don't know what the impl status is now
  373. # [15:24] <JakeA> zcorpan: In that case, what's the difference between a "cors" fetch and a "tainted cross-origin" fetch?
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  377. # [15:27] <zcorpan> JakeA: see step 6 in http://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#concept-fetch
  378. # [15:29] <JakeA> zcorpan: So, assuming a stylesheet is "tainted cross-origin" and on a different origin, wouldn't that make it always tainted?
  379. # [15:29] <zcorpan> JakeA: it's possible that i'm out of sync with annevk's terminology
  380. # [15:29] <JakeA> More likely that my mental model is broken, there'll be an aha moment soon
  381. # [15:30] <zcorpan> JakeA: not if "url's origin is request's origin and the CORS flag is unset"
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  383. # [15:32] <zcorpan> which is the same-origin case
  384. # [15:32] <JakeA> zcorpan: but cross-origin?
  385. # [15:32] <annevk> JakeA: getAll takes a header name and returns its values
  386. # [15:33] <JakeA> annevk: yeah, Domenic pointed out I'd missed the arg when I read it
  387. # [15:33] <annevk> JakeA: <img> has tainted cross-origin unless you set the crossorigin attribute
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  389. # [15:33] <annevk> seems other people answered questions
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  391. # [15:33] <JakeA> Currently trying to work out how the tainting happen on stylesheets
  392. # [15:35] <zcorpan> JakeA: possibly it would still be tainted unless you used the crossorigin attribute
  393. # [15:36] <JakeA> zcorpan: Aha! That's it, didn't realise crossorigin was supported on <link> too
  394. # [15:36] <annevk> JakeA: enjoy
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  396. # [15:38] <zcorpan> JakeA: yep. crossorigin is a planned addition to url() in css also so you can use CORS with e.g. @import
  397. # [15:40] <GPHemsley> Hixie: Is it a known difference between Firefox and Chrome that the former will wait on a script that's not resolving before rendering the page while the latter won't?
  398. # [15:40] <JakeA> annevk: I guess there's a reason we can't have "give me a non-opaque version of this if it uses simple headers & method and returns Access-Control-Allow-Origin: *, otherwise give me an opaque response"?
  399. # [15:40] <JakeA> zcorpan: gotcha
  400. # [15:40] <GPHemsley> Hixie: script and/or stylesheet and/or images
  401. # [15:42] <zcorpan> JakeA: i think it wasn't compatible to always send an Origin request header, but maybe we can still do something like that
  402. # [15:44] <annevk> JakeA: that would be a new type of fetch
  403. # [15:44] <annevk> JakeA: which we could do, but would explain nothing about the platform whatsoever
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  405. # [15:44] <JakeA> annevk: I'm sure there's a reason it wasn't the default for images and stylesheets, was it something to do with Host as zcorpan suggests?
  406. # [15:45] <annevk> JakeA: Origin, yes, we could not use it for each fetch
  407. # [15:46] <JakeA> annevk: What did it break? (sorry just curious)
  408. # [15:46] <annevk> JakeA: ask abarth
  409. # [15:46] <annevk> JakeA: and if you find out, let me know, so I can update the comment in the source of Fetch
  410. # [15:46] <JakeA> hah
  411. # [15:47] <annevk> zcorpan: is someone finally solving the issues from that public-fx thread?
  412. # [15:47] <annevk> zcorpan: though maybe not, CORS style sheets did not come up, what's the benefit of that?
  413. # [15:51] <zcorpan> annevk: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/css/20140521#l-1296
  414. # [15:55] <annevk> zcorpan: CSSOM would've been shorter :p
  415. # [15:55] <annevk> zcorpan: or do you like to taunt my poor memory?
  416. # [15:55] <zcorpan> annevk: sorry :-)
  417. # [15:56] <annevk> JakeA: static method is brilliant
  418. # [15:59] <JakeA> annevk: I figured fetch(url) would resolve to an Opaque response for a response that failed a CORS check and didn't need a preflight. Understand why it doesn't do that. Not sure it's an issue yet
  419. # [15:59] <JakeA> hah, muscle-memory capitalised Opaque
  420. # [16:01] <annevk> aah
  421. # [16:03] <JakeA> annevk: So, now I understand it better, "tainted cross-origin" could be "no-cors"?
  422. # [16:04] <annevk> JakeA: you think it's clear to developers that it the response will be tainted in that case? I guess...
  423. # [16:04] <JakeA> annevk: Well, it won't be tainted if its same-origin, right?
  424. # [16:04] <annevk> JakeA: fair
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  426. # [16:04] <annevk> JakeA: same-origin is a mode too ;-)
  427. # [16:05] <JakeA> annevk: I was going to suggest "same-origin-only" but adding chars feels like a step backwards
  428. # [16:07] <annevk> I like no-cors
  429. # [16:07] <JakeA> annevk: omitCredentialsMode - XHR uses withCredentials, why invert it for fetch?
  430. # [16:07] <annevk> JakeA: we could not offer same-origin...
  431. # [16:08] <annevk> JakeA: it's mostly there for a couple of APIs that want it
  432. # [16:08] <zcorpan> also see http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/fetching-resources.html#attr-crossorigin-none
  433. # [16:09] <zcorpan> which apis use "same-origin"?
  434. # [16:09] <JakeA> annevk: any serviceworker-visible requests? I can only think of serviceworker requests that are same-origin
  435. # [16:09] <annevk> zcorpan: document.load()
  436. # [16:09] <annevk> zcorpan: <track> when there's no crossorigin attribute I thought
  437. # [16:10] <zcorpan> annevk: ok right yeah
  438. # [16:10] <zcorpan> annevk: i hope we can drop document.load() though
  439. # [16:10] <annevk> zcorpan: same
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  441. # [16:10] <annevk> I'll rename tainted cross-origin
  442. # [16:11] <annevk> I'm glad people finally care about Fetch, only took me a year
  443. # [16:12] <JakeA> zcorpan: Requests for serviceworkers themselves, although I don't know if we'll use same-origin, I think we'll fail on *all* redirects
  444. # [16:12] <JakeA> annevk: It's brilliant
  445. # [16:12] <annevk> JakeA: so we could invert omit credentials
  446. # [16:12] <zcorpan> JakeA: why fail on all redirects?
  447. # [16:12] <annevk> credentials is a bit icky, I forgot the exact rationale
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  449. # [16:13] <JakeA> zcorpan: tbh, I can't remember, maybe same origin redirect is fine
  450. # [16:13] <annevk> JakeA: euhm, please copy me on the ticket where service worker fetching is defined
  451. # [16:13] <annevk> I'd really like us not to have another API that does not follow redirects
  452. # [16:14] <JakeA> annevk: yeah, I think same origin is fine. So yeah, it would be a same-origin request
  453. # [16:15] <JakeA> annevk: I guess appcache manifest is too, as are a lot of requests that are under appcache control
  454. # [16:15] <JakeA> annevk: There isn't a ticket for SW fetch, I should update the algos now I understand fetch betterer
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  456. # [16:21] <annevk> JakeA: http://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#http-fetch step 9 has a SW placeholder now
  457. # [16:21] <annevk> jungkees: ^^
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  459. # [16:22] <annevk> JakeA: I worked out a better .default() handling with jungkees so everything is a lot less magic
  460. # [16:22] <JakeA> annevk: ohh, did that happen here or in a ticket?
  461. # [16:23] <annevk> JakeA: both and also as comments on diffs
  462. # [16:23] <annevk> JakeA: somewhat messy
  463. # [16:23] <JakeA> annevk: I'll wait for the spec :D
  464. # [16:24] <annevk> JakeA: the spec is basically that SW invokes Fetch with request and a special flag set on the request object noting it comes from the SW (since .client still points to the actual origin)
  465. # [16:25] <JakeA> annevk: sounds better
  466. # [16:27] <JakeA> annevk: So, the credentials stuff… <img> is always credentials, <img crossorigin> is never with credentials, XHR withCredentials = true is "cors"?
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  468. # [16:29] <annevk> JakeA: it's unclear how the crossorigin vs crossorigin=use-credentials is actually implemented
  469. # [16:29] <annevk> JakeA: it might be that nothing in the platform has the "never" semantics
  470. # [16:29] <annevk> (except in the case where you're always cross-origin due to sandboxing, but that's no different from "cors" in that case)
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  472. # [16:30] <JakeA> annevk: Is new Request({ mode: "cors", withCredentials: "always" }) an invalid combination?
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  474. # [16:32] <annevk> JakeA: sorry
  475. # [16:32] <annevk> JakeA: XHR withCredentials = false is "cors"
  476. # [16:33] <annevk> JakeA: it means there's actually credentials for same-origin fetches, but not for cross-origin
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  479. # [16:36] <JakeA> annevk: Ohhh, would withCredentials: "same-origin" make more sense?
  480. # [16:36] <caitp> it's a bit late to change that
  481. # [16:36] <JakeA> caitp: Is it?
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  483. # [16:37] <caitp> well, maybe not
  484. # [16:37] <JakeA> caitp: We're talking about Request here, not XHR
  485. # [16:40] <JakeA> annevk: btw, bodyAs(type) works for me
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  488. # [16:41] <annevk> JakeA: cleaned up service worker integration a bit more
  489. # [16:41] <JakeA> annevk: I agree with Domenic that allowing headers to be provided as a simple JS object would be nice in Request/Response constructors
  490. # [16:42] <annevk> JakeA: with headers I'm awaiting some feedback, ideally from implementers, on how we want to deal with them
  491. # [16:43] <annevk> JakeA: currently the spec follows HTTP, but browsers and the web don't always, and it's unclear to me what we want
  492. # [16:43] <annevk> JakeA: I like withCredentials: "same-origin"
  493. # [16:43] <annevk> JakeA: flipping the credentials flag in meaning again is going to annoy some people, but hopefully it's for the best
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  495. # [16:44] <JakeA> annevk: spec is looking great. It seems like a crime not to throw Cache into the window as soon as possible, especially if we're going to have Request/Response/fetch
  496. # [16:44] <JakeA> annevk: Where else is it "omit"? I've only seen it on XHR
  497. # [16:44] <annevk> JakeA: HTML has limited use of Fetch at the moment
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  499. # [16:45] <annevk> but converting HTML is going to be a pain already :-(
  500. # [16:46] <JakeA> annevk: For the body constructor arg, I'm still keen on https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/issues/192#issuecomment-40737493, which means handling body before headers in the construction steps
  501. # [16:48] <JakeA> annevk: I guess FormData should be supported too, although only really useful for request body
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  505. # [16:49] <JakeA> annevk: Also, what do you think to constructed responses having a text/plain content type by default? Would that avoid the browser triggering downloads if the developer forgets to set it to something better?
  506. # [16:51] <annevk> JakeA: are we exposing a way to mutate a body?
  507. # [16:51] <annevk> JakeA: setting a Content-Type header based on the body makes sense, we should do that
  508. # [16:53] <annevk> JakeA: if we call it withCredentials in the API, you don't mind it not having the same type as XHR?
  509. # [16:53] <annevk> JakeA: maybe we should call it includeCredentials?
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  511. # [16:55] <JakeA> annevk: I wondered about the type issue. useCredentials?
  512. # [16:57] <JakeA> annevk: stuck on mutating body. I guess it's as useful as mutating headers as they go through the fetch event, but then having it convert type would be weird
  513. # [16:59] <JakeA> annevk: request.body = interestingTransformStream(request.body) could be exciting
  514. # [16:59] <JakeA> annevk: I guess we don't have to decide until streams are ready
  515. # [17:01] <JakeA> annevk: Does fetch(new URL(url, base)) do the right thing (toString it)?
  516. # [17:01] <JakeA> (sorry, just going through my notes now)
  517. # [17:02] <annevk> JakeA: yes it should
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  520. # [17:03] <annevk> JakeA: useCredentials = "same-origin" / "never" / "always" works I guess
  521. # [17:05] <annevk> JakeA: all I could think of was setBody or some such
  522. # [17:05] <annevk> JakeA: I guess we can wait for streams
  523. # [17:06] <JakeA> annevk: or throw on set if it's not a stream. Leave the flexibility to the constructor
  524. # [17:06] <annevk> well we don't have streams so that'd be pretty useless
  525. # [17:06] <JakeA> annevk: I'm still umming between fetch(url) vs new Request(url).send(), although the former is much shorter
  526. # [17:08] <annevk> the latter might be more web-compatible
  527. # [17:08] <annevk> I like the former as it matches the English prose :-)
  528. # [17:08] <zewt> the "people don't understand that you can set stuff synchronously before async stuff starts" problem?
  529. # [17:08] <zewt> ("web-author-compatible" heh)
  530. # [17:11] <JakeA> annevk: why does fetch() reject with TypeError rather than NetworkError?
  531. # [17:12] <annevk> JakeA: I tried to keep it ES-compatible
  532. # [17:12] <annevk> JakeA: not sure if that's a goal
  533. # [17:13] <JakeA> annevk: Feels weird, but don't know how important ES-compatibilitiy is
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  535. # [17:13] <annevk> JakeA: note that NetworkError is really DOMException whose name is "NetworkError"
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  537. # [17:14] <JakeA> annevk: Ahhh, I hadn't realised that
  538. # [17:14] <annevk> JakeA: and that DOMException is a somewhat frowned upon object by TC39 but they also not have given us something superior so far
  539. # [17:15] <jgraham> JS is somewhat frowned on by CSSWG, but they haven't given us anything superior so far
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  541. # [17:15] <JakeA> annevk: If I get back an "opaque" response, how can I tell it's opaque? Wondering if .type could be "opaque" rather than "error"
  542. # [17:16] <annevk> JakeA: basically, the idea is that the filters take effect
  543. # [17:16] <annevk> JakeA: I guess we could expose what filter is being used
  544. # [17:17] <annevk> JakeA: http://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/#concept-filtered-response
  545. # [17:18] <JakeA> annevk: Could type be overloaded for this? "default" "cors" "opaque" "error"?
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  547. # [17:19] <annevk> JakeA: yeah maybe, is there a use?
  548. # [17:20] <JakeA> annevk: Only to stop opaque responses looking like errors
  549. # [17:20] <JakeA> annevk: myResponse.type == 'error' when in fact it's a perfectly usable response
  550. # [17:21] <annevk> yeah, I guess we sorta expose that difference elsewhere already
  551. # [17:22] * annevk is still working on checking whether renaming omit credentials mode can be done
  552. # [17:22] <JakeA> annevk: No rush, just braindumping before my evening turns into meeting
  553. # [17:22] <JakeA> s
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  555. # [17:23] <JakeA> annevk: Thinking about myCache.add('//cdn.whatever/stuff.js') - that would fail without CORS headers. This is a case where returning opaque if CORS fails would be useful. I'll try and chase down the history of the Origin: stuff
  556. # [17:25] <annevk> JakeA: why can't you store an opaque in that case?
  557. # [17:25] <annevk> JakeA: that's what <script> does too
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  559. # [17:25] <JakeA> annevk: Right, but cache.add uses fetch(), and the default is cors
  560. # [17:26] <JakeA> annevk: I'd have to myCache.add(new Request('//cdn.whatever/stuff.js', {mode: 'no-cors'}))
  561. # [17:26] <annevk> JakeA: how about .credentials = "omit" / "same-origin" / "include"
  562. # [17:26] <annevk> JakeA: hmm yeah dunno what to do there
  563. # [17:27] <JakeA> annevk: might have a better idea when I dig out the Origin: stuff
  564. # [17:27] <JakeA> annevk: .credentials etc sgtm
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  602. # [18:33] <annevk> JakeA: I think the only thing that's still lacking is the response.type thingie
  603. # [18:33] <annevk> JakeA: I added some sketches around bodyAs()
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  609. # [18:40] <Hixie> GPHemsley: test case?
  610. # [18:40] <JakeA> annevk: What do you think about "cors-force-preflight" vs "cors-with-forced-preflight"
  611. # [18:40] <annevk> JakeA: I'd like to get rid of that entirely somehow
  612. # [18:41] <JakeA> annevk: What uses it?
  613. # [18:41] <annevk> JakeA: the mode makes sense for XHR to request, but makes no sense for authors to request
  614. # [18:41] <GPHemsley> Hixie: Try this: http://128.175.170.176/site/
  615. # [18:41] <annevk> JakeA: it's a way from XHR to say that there's upload event listeners attached and that therefore a preflight needs to be made
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  617. # [18:41] <Hixie> hsivonen: validator.nu is down
  618. # [18:42] <Hixie> GPHemsley: hangs for me in chrome...
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  620. # [18:43] <IZh> Hi Hixie. Did you get my messages?
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  624. # [18:43] <Hixie> IZh: which?
  625. # [18:44] <IZh> Hixie: About imagemap's area.
  626. # [18:44] <JakeA> annevk: hm didn't realise that needed extra permissions. Will we hit that issue with fetch()? If you provide your own stream you'll see it being consumed.
  627. # [18:45] <IZh> Hixie: It was on 31st of May.
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  629. # [18:46] <Hixie> IZh: on irc, e-mail, bug?
  630. # [18:46] <IZh> Hixie: IRC.
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  632. # [18:47] <Hixie> IZh: don't think so
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  635. # [18:47] <Hixie> IZh: best place to report minor bugs is using the form on the spec
  636. # [18:47] <IZh> Hixie: Okay.
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  638. # [18:49] <IZh> Hixie: Should I repeat it in the form?
  639. # [18:50] <Hixie> yes please
  640. # [18:51] <annevk> JakeA: yeah we might have to require it for streams
  641. # [18:51] <JakeA> annevk: Is upload progress that much of a security leak? I can't figure out the issue
  642. # [18:52] <annevk> JakeA: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20322 has some background on this
  643. # [18:52] <annevk> JakeA: I gotta go, continue this tomorrow maybe?
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  645. # [18:53] <GPHemsley> Hixie: Oh, really? *shrug*
  646. # [18:53] <IZh> Hixie: Done. #25964.
  647. # [18:54] <JakeA> annevk: certainly! Have a good evening
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  649. # [18:54] <annevk> JakeA: you too, this was great
  650. # [18:54] <JakeA> annevk: I've learned a lot
  651. # [18:55] <IZh> Hixie: What you think about adding support for floating-point coordinates for image maps shapes? These coords would be in the interval of 0.0 to 1.0, and this will work for any resolution of image and any zoom level.
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  656. # [19:00] <Hixie> IZh: image maps are a dead-end technology
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  665. # [19:05] <caitp> but they gave us marvels of the world wide web, like the spacejam website
  666. # [19:05] <caitp> at least, I could have sworn it used to be an imagemap... looks like a table now. either way :>
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  669. # [19:12] <IZh> Hixie: What's the purpose of allowing circles with zero radius that will be considered empty and eleminated at the later steps of parsing?
  670. # [19:14] <Hixie> IZh: no idea
  671. # [19:16] <IZh> Hixie: By the way, zero-sized rectangles are not allowed. But for circle's radius the spec says "must be non-negative".
  672. # [19:16] <Hixie> IZh: i have long forgotten anything i ever knew about image maps
  673. # [19:16] <Hixie> IZh: like i said, it's a dead-end technology
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  701. # [20:40] <hsivonen> hmm. validator.nu doesn't come back when relaunching...
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  715. # [21:21] <hsivonen> MikeSmith, Hixie: ack validator.nu brokenness. this is weird and will need more investigation tomorrow. :-(
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The end :)