/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-06-05 / end

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  20. # [00:19] * gsnedders wonders what the cost of getting telemetry data for lone surrogates in document.write would be
  21. # [00:19] <gsnedders> Probably too much. :(
  22. # [00:20] <gsnedders> (Say data like "%" of document.write calls containing lone surrogates)
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  63. # [02:08] <jamesr_> what happens to those?
  64. # [02:09] <jamesr_> ah, generate parse errors
  65. # [02:09] <jamesr_> shouldn't be too bad if you're already in the error handling state to check back for what the error was
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  76. # [02:25] <gsnedders> jamesr_: But you need to know you're parsing for document.write
  77. # [02:25] <gsnedders> jamesr_: On the other hand, they can only occur when you're in the document.write case…
  78. # [02:25] <gsnedders> hmmm…
  79. # [02:25] <gsnedders> maybe this can be done more reasonably than I thought…
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  81. # [02:29] <zewt> do you mean real lone surrogates, or temporary lone surrogates that get completed with the next document.write() call (which I thought worked, though I don't think I've tested it myself)
  82. # [02:33] <gsnedders> They do work. Really I want stats for both, but if nothing has lone surrogates, then there aren't temporary lone surrogates.
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  84. # [02:42] * SamB wonders if there's any code out there that works in chunks and would have temporary lone surrogates more-or-less at random
  85. # [02:42] <zewt> that's been the theory
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  87. # [02:44] * SamB wonders what sort of thinking would motivate the sort of code that might split surrogate pairs across chunks on the client-side ...
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  89. # [02:45] <zewt> pretty easy if you're getting data over the network in fixed-sized blocks, i just don't know why you'd do that with document.write
  90. # [02:48] <SamB> zewt: yeah, I thought of that possible motivation
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  122. # [04:06] <karlcow> wrong test? or bug? http://www.w3c-test.org/html/webappapis/scripting/processing-model-2/compile-error-data-url.html
  123. # [04:07] <caitp> probably both
  124. # [04:10] <caitp> well nightly comes closer to passing it than chrome stable
  125. # [04:13] <Hixie> the answers to your questions lie in the specification :-)
  126. # [04:15] <caitp> "the specification"
  127. # [04:15] <caitp> "the"
  128. # [04:17] <caitp> but, for what it's worth, the DOM specs on the w3c don't seem to cover onerror in any significant detail, and neither the webapps spec nor fetch seem to say anything about the "content" of a data-url being url encoded
  129. # [04:18] <karlcow> hm might have found a bug in a test. jgraham where is the best place to report a bug.
  130. # [04:19] <Hixie> the whatwg html standard defines onerror.
  131. # [04:19] <karlcow> http://www.w3c-test.org/html/semantics/grouping-content/the-blockquote-element/grouping-blockquote.sub.html
  132. # [04:19] <karlcow> second test
  133. # [04:20] <caitp> i guess the url spec says to percent encode things, maybe
  134. # [04:20] <karlcow> {actual: "blehblah", resolved: document.location.protocol + "//" + document.location.host + "/blehblah"},
  135. # [04:20] <karlcow> the document.location.path is missing.
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  139. # [04:23] <karlcow> s/path/pathname/
  140. # [04:24] <caitp> the definition in the html spec seems idetical to the webapps definition, which doesn't specify whether or not source should be urlencoded
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  146. # [04:47] <Hixie> the webapps definition includes how to process a <script> element?!
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  156. # [05:10] <Hixie> holy cow, i got a tree constructor test all the way through my parser to "stop parsing"
  157. # [05:10] <Hixie> of course it promptly crashed because the output verifier isn't implemented yet...
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  163. # [05:34] <Hixie> hm
  164. # [05:35] <Hixie> what order are the attributes in tree constructor tests?
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  166. # [05:38] <Hixie> ah, it does say "sorted lexicographically"
  167. # [05:38] <Hixie> good good
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  180. # [06:17] <MikeSmith> Hixie: I forgot what reason you're implementing a parse for
  181. # [06:17] <MikeSmith> *parser
  182. # [06:19] <Hixie> for my new pipeline
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  185. # [06:29] <Hixie> woot, my parser passes one tree constructor test!
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  206. # [07:32] <karlcow> html5 parsing <font face…><form…> markup </form></font> https://github.com/webcompat/web-bugs/issues/74
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  229. # [08:10] <zcorpan> intredasting. commented
  230. # [08:11] <zcorpan> ("<font face…><form…> markup </form></font>" by itself is fine)
  231. # [08:11] <zcorpan> Hixie: AAA disassociating form controls broke the above site
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  239. # [08:33] <karlcow> zcorpan: thanks for the comment
  240. # [08:34] <karlcow> I tried with any inline elements and indeed it kicks in every time.
  241. # [08:34] <zcorpan> karlcow: my knee-jerk reaction is that this is probably uncommon enough (since it hasn't come up until now) that it's not worth fixing in the spec
  242. # [08:35] <zcorpan> karlcow: similar to "<table><form><tr><td><input>" in innerHTML (which has come up but not so often)
  243. # [08:35] <karlcow> yeah… I wonder if it's worth fixing instead of trying to convince the Webmaster to fix his Web site.
  244. # [08:36] <karlcow> Specifically when it will soon not work anywhere
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  246. # [08:36] <zcorpan> they maintained the site enough to notice that there was a problem and add big fat warnings about it
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  249. # [08:36] <zcorpan> they could have fixed the markup instead
  250. # [08:37] <zcorpan> (note that AAA doesn't trigger for any inline, just a handful of elements)
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  287. # [10:14] <jgraham> karlcow: On the web-platform-test github page, perhaps? I'm not really sure
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  289. # [10:17] <annevk> I have some plans on merging XMLHttpRequest into Fetch as they are intertwined. Is there some way to put all of XMLHttpRequest's history into Fetch whenever I get around to that?
  290. # [10:17] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
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  293. # [10:21] <jgraham> annevk: Yes
  294. # [10:22] <tobie> annevk: do you intend for the fetch API to replace xhr in devs' toolboxes?
  295. # [10:22] <annevk> tobie: yeah I guess
  296. # [10:23] <annevk> tobie: at some point I'll stop adding features to XHR
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  298. # [10:25] <annevk> jgraham: great
  299. # [10:25] <tobie> annevk: so I understand the editorial reason for merging the two specs, but my gut reaction is that it's sending the wrong message wrt to the above.
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  301. # [10:27] <annevk> tobie: I don't think that's going to be a problem
  302. # [10:27] <annevk> tobie: we define legacy features in tandem with new features all the time
  303. # [10:27] <karlcow> jgraham: thanks. https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/issues/1042
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  305. # [10:29] <tobie> annevk: yeah, I guess if those are marked clearly.
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  314. # [10:50] <annevk> tobie: I'd just name the section "Legacy XMLHttpRequest API"
  315. # [10:50] <tobie> annevk: <3
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  317. # [10:51] <tobie> annevk: how polyfillable is fetch?
  318. # [10:52] <annevk> tobie: large parts can be polyfilled, but without proxy server you can't do "No CORS"
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  337. # [11:27] <JakeA> annevk: been chatting to abarth. Seems like we used to still render an <img crossorigin> that failed its CORS check, but it couldn't be used on a canvas. This sounds sensible and the same behaviour we'd want for the SW cache. Apparently Jonas fought for <img crossorigin> to break on CORS failure, any idea why?
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  339. # [11:28] <annevk> JakeA: dunno
  340. # [11:28] <JakeA> annevk: no worries, will bug him about it later
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  351. # [12:09] <annevk> JakeA: did he say anything about CORS without opt-in?
  352. # [12:10] <JakeA> annevk: he said it was a stupid idea and I should be ashamed of myself
  353. # [12:10] <JakeA> (he didn't quite put it like that)
  354. # [12:11] <annevk> heh
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  356. # [12:14] <annevk> JakeA: so the remaining issues are Response.prototype.type; a better definition of multipart/form-data so we can go both ways (not high priority for me at the moment); finding out the best representation of headers both close-to-the-metal and high-level API-wise; and actually defining all the various things
  357. # [12:15] <annevk> JakeA: and then for service workers we need to figure out what we need to do with Response objects (or their corresponding responses) coming from service workers
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  368. # [12:34] <JakeA> annevk: I'm still keen on .type reflecting the filtering. So "basic", "cors", "opaque" "error"
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  370. # [12:35] <annevk> JakeA: yeah I think it makes sense to expose that. Hopefully the security guys are paying attention
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  372. # [12:36] <JakeA> annevk: we already expose the difference between "opaque" and "error" though the promise resolve/reject
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  374. # [12:37] <JakeA> annevk: I guess image load events do the same, although only for images
  375. # [12:37] <annevk> JakeA: yeah and also through load/onerror in <img> and such
  376. # [12:37] <JakeA> SNAP
  377. # [12:37] <JakeA> I win
  378. # [12:37] <annevk> JakeA: heh
  379. # [12:38] <annevk> JakeA: if SW declines to handle a request and that request ends up doing HTTP auth (due to 401) the subsequent request will also not go through SW
  380. # [12:38] <annevk> JakeA: see the text under 401 in HTTP fetch
  381. # [12:38] <annevk> JakeA: that seems like the right thing
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  383. # [12:43] <JakeA> annevk: yeah, that feels right
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  387. # [12:48] <annevk> I would have liked if the people working on HTTP were a bit more opinionated on what a good header representation makes
  388. # [12:48] <annevk> You'd think that if you worked on HTTP for a good decade you'd know what you want
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  390. # [12:51] <Ms2ger> Ask ChrisMorgan in ircmo #rust
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  396. # [12:58] <annevk> Ms2ger: he's not around
  397. # [12:59] <Ms2ger> Oh, right
  398. # [12:59] <Ms2ger> He's somewhere in Australia, IIRC
  399. # [13:00] <annevk> Just like mnot, that doesn't work
  400. # [13:01] * smaug____ lost the conversation about making data url handling inconsistent
  401. # [13:02] <smaug____> I think it was in webapps
  402. # [13:02] <annevk> smaug____: I moved it to WHATWG
  403. # [13:02] <smaug____> oh, there it is
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  411. # [13:07] <annevk> Ms2ger: is he just working on an HTTP library or he has extensive knowledge about the compat issues and why browser and potentially proxy implementations are weird?
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  442. # [13:46] <Witget> Hi people. Who can help with adding a meta tag in http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/MetaExtensions
  443. # [13:46] <Witget> ?
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  449. # [14:13] <annevk> Witget: pm me a desired username and email
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  466. # [14:37] <zcorpan_> MikeSmith: https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/1739
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  500. # [15:27] <annevk> JakeA: I guess if you do Response.redirect() the resulting Response object should have a type that's "redirect"? Seems fine to me
  501. # [15:28] <annevk> JakeA: just not if it's a network redirect
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  506. # [15:38] <JakeA> annevk: I don't think it needs it. It'd just be "basic"
  507. # [15:38] <JakeA> annevk: it's just a factory that sets the headers
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  509. # [15:41] <annevk> Hmm, I guess it would be a bit annoying to define it accurately
  510. # [15:42] <annevk> I'll kill redirect for now
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  512. # [15:43] <JakeA> annevk: https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/issues/287 makes me want to kill the * thing again
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  514. # [15:44] <annevk> JakeA: exact match should win I think
  515. # [15:45] <annevk> JakeA: it is somewhat confusing though
  516. # [15:46] <JakeA> annevk: so /foo beats /fo* and /foo*? I agree it makes most sense. I just don't know how useful single path matches are vs the complication they bring
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  520. # [15:47] <JakeA> I've tried to get Alex to drop them in the past
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  522. # [15:48] <annevk> I don't know
  523. # [15:48] <annevk> I was in favor of starting out with origin-only
  524. # [15:49] <JakeA> I like scope, it's been useful in github pages during my testing
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  533. # [15:57] <annevk> JakeA: do you make sure to make a copy of Request/Response when you store them in the database?
  534. # [15:57] <annevk> JakeA: seems like we need to support structured clones
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  536. # [15:59] <JakeA> annevk: Yeah, they should be structured cloneable
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  542. # [16:12] <annevk> darobin: what specs manipulate JSON?
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  544. # [16:12] <darobin> JSON forms, JSON-LD, manifest
  545. # [16:12] <darobin> just off the top of my head
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  547. # [16:12] <darobin> I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more showing up now and then
  548. # [16:12] <annevk> darobin: oh, mostly vaporware :p
  549. # [16:12] <darobin> huhu
  550. # [16:13] <annevk> darobin: that bug was about a parsed representation btw, not serialized
  551. # [16:13] <darobin> annevk: precisely
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  557. # [16:30] <annevk> JakeA: defined redirect(), except for one thing, the url of the new object
  558. # [16:30] <annevk> JakeA: we haven't really discussed how to handle urls for synthetic responses yet
  559. # [16:31] <arunranga> annevk, once we use a parsed URL for scheme data, is the current string-based origin extraction sufficient? It’s what implementations do right now.
  560. # [16:31] <annevk> arunranga: is it? afaik Chrome uses a tuple for origin
  561. # [16:31] <annevk> arunranga: not a single string
  562. # [16:32] <annevk> arunranga: e.g. to determine if something is a secure origin we'd look at the scheme of the origin only, for that you'd need to parse it
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  564. # [16:32] <arunranga> annevk, but you can extract scheme from the string.
  565. # [16:33] <arunranga> Chrome’s implementation seems to “tag” a blob URL with an origin, serialized as a string.
  566. # [16:33] <annevk> arunranga: there's an alternative way of doing this of course, which is that I check that windows's associated document's origin serialized + "/" is a substring for the blob URL thingie
  567. # [16:33] <annevk> arunranga: then you don't have to extract
  568. # [16:33] <JakeA> annevk: What is response.url used for when it comes to constructed responses?
  569. # [16:33] <annevk> JakeA: dunno
  570. # [16:33] <JakeA> annevk: I think it's redundant so can be null
  571. # [16:34] <annevk> JakeA: so I fetch an image with CORS from http://www.google.com/spoofinggoogle
  572. # [16:34] <annevk> JakeA: the SW replies with a custom response
  573. # [16:34] <annevk> JakeA: is that URL now associated with a safe response somehow? might be bad?
  574. # [16:35] * annevk isn't really sure
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  576. # [16:36] <arunranga> annevk, Chrome uses a string, but tuples are themselves extractable from it: blob:http%3A//www.w3.org/3fb1659b-1352-40b0-a029-ce91536696ea
  577. # [16:36] <JakeA> annevk: I think it's fine. The SW could also respondWith(fetch('/local.png'))
  578. # [16:36] <arunranga> ^ the “/“ separates a UUID from the origin
  579. # [16:36] <annevk> arunranga: how do you know it uses a string?
  580. # [16:36] <arunranga> So it isn’t quite a tuple.
  581. # [16:36] <JakeA> annevk: You can shoot yourself in the foot if you want, but I don't think it's harmful to anyone else
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  586. # [16:45] <arunranga> annevk: Blob URLs *are* strings; seems like origins were implicit but we’ve now made them explicit by appending them to a string.
  587. # [16:46] <annevk> arunranga: I understand that you have a string representation of an origin, we were talking about extracting the origin for internal use
  588. # [16:46] <annevk> arunranga: what is the origin of a blob URL you navigate to?
  589. # [16:47] <arunranga> annevk: would extracting a string (generated by the Origin Spec’s Unicode Serialization of an Origin algo.) be insufficient? Internally tuples can be generated from the string.
  590. # [16:47] <ChrisMorgan> annevk: I’m sorry to say that I don’t have much experience in the practical nastinesses of how proxies and such behave. My background—not a terribly long one either, by the way, I’m only 22, though I’ve worked with the web for just on half my life now—is more in web application development.
  591. # [16:48] <annevk> hey ChrisMorgan
  592. # [16:48] <annevk> ChrisMorgan: the relevant issue is tracked here https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/issues/300
  593. # [16:48] <ChrisMorgan> I just had strong opinions on things like header representation, which led me to working in Rust for the past year or so, doing strongly typed HTTP and such.
  594. # [16:48] <annevk> ChrisMorgan: please be sure to read the referenced Gecko code as it might put some constrains on us
  595. # [16:49] <arunranga> annevk, the Unicode Serialized Origin is what’s nested in the blob: URL. Extracting it is a matter of string parsing. Tuple generation, if necessary for same origin comparision, can be done safely, since the emiter methods emit a safe string.
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  597. # [16:49] <arunranga> So I’m not sure recursive parsing is useful.
  598. # [16:50] <annevk> arunranga: if "an origin" is a tuple, you can't just set it to a string
  599. # [16:50] <ChrisMorgan> annevk: I know of Guile and intarweb, two Scheme things that use strongly typed headers, and Spray for Scala.
  600. # [16:50] <arunranga> annevk, would you prefer to do recursive pasing?
  601. # [16:51] <arunranga> Which is to parse the blob: URL recursively for an origin?
  602. # [16:51] <annevk> arunranga: I'm not sure I fully understand all the implications yet of this
  603. # [16:51] <annevk> arunranga: of a blob having an embedded origin that is
  604. # [16:51] <annevk> ChrisMorgan: we can't do much strong typing, this is a JS API
  605. # [16:51] <annevk> ChrisMorgan: it's mostly about whether this should be a map or a list, ...
  606. # [16:52] <ChrisMorgan> annevk: my intent with Teepee is to largely implement the specs as they are and adjust the parsing et al. as necessary, doing large-scale analysis of real life, covering things like the Common Crawl.
  607. # [16:52] <zewt> annevk: what's the functional difference? the origin being anything but a simple string is new to me
  608. # [16:52] <arunranga> Thing is, the origin is already that of the incumbent settings object. Fx’s single process means that we never needed to make it explicit. Multi-process UAs can parse strings for sanity checks; not sure why we need to keep the tuple around, but we could.
  609. # [16:52] <annevk> zewt: e.g. to see if something is a secure origin you check the scheme
  610. # [16:53] <annevk> zewt: see https://w3c.github.io/webappsec/specs/mixedcontent/
  611. # [16:53] <zewt> then parse the origin to get the scheme from it
  612. # [16:53] <annevk> zewt: yes, either that or origin is already a tuple and setting it to a string is wrong
  613. # [16:53] <ChrisMorgan> Go deals with headers as a mapping of header name strings to an array of strings.
  614. # [16:53] <zewt> if they're functionally interchangeable than neither is wrong
  615. # [16:53] <arunranga> annevk, actually, one thing we can do is parse the origin string and extract a scheme, host, port tuple
  616. # [16:54] <zewt> arunranga: i just said that :P
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  618. # [16:54] <annevk> zewt: just depends on what the model is
  619. # [16:54] <arunranga> zewt :) annevk, I’m not sure where the tuple would live.
  620. # [16:54] <zewt> if neither is wrong, having the origin mbe a string to line up with document.location.origin seems most natural, at least at first glance
  621. # [16:54] <annevk> zewt: which is what I asked
  622. # [16:54] <arunranga> Other than being parsed for extraction
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  625. # [16:54] <ChrisMorgan> annevk: seems to me that getting sense out of HTTP headers without a strongly typed interface is a futile endeavour…
  626. # [16:54] <ChrisMorgan> (Alas.)
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  628. # [16:55] <annevk> ChrisMorgan: the way you described Go does not like super strongly typed, that level of detail works
  629. # [16:55] <annevk> ChrisMorgan: although it also depends a bit on how they parse incoming values I guess
  630. # [16:55] <ChrisMorgan> Indeed, Go is typically pretty weakly typed.
  631. # [16:56] <caitp> indeed.
  632. # [16:56] <ChrisMorgan> I’m not certain how it handles things like `Accept: foo, bar\r\nAccept: baz`, whether ['foo', 'bar', 'baz'] or ['foo, bar', 'baz'], but I would expect the latter.
  633. # [16:57] <annevk> Hmm
  634. # [16:57] <ChrisMorgan> Without knowledge of the grammar of the header, it is impossible to do anything at all.
  635. # [16:57] <ChrisMorgan> Because you need to know whether it’s a list type or not.
  636. # [16:57] <annevk> Well clearly it is possible to do something hence everyone having a generic abstraction
  637. # [16:57] <ChrisMorgan> In RFC 2616-speak, it’s the difference between #(…) and anything else.
  638. # [16:58] <ChrisMorgan> If it is a list, then that earlier example would be foo, bar, baz. If it is not a list, the behaviour is undefined. I’m not certain what the typical behaviour is.
  639. # [16:59] * ChrisMorgan is not pleased with any HTTP specs, including HTTP/2; they leave *so* much undefined
  640. # [16:59] <annevk> Yeah okay, seems you got about as far as I did with this
  641. # [16:59] <ChrisMorgan> HTTP/2 even inserts *deliberate* ambiguity of behaviour in a couple of places!
  642. # [16:59] * annevk hopes mnot wakes up
  643. # [17:00] <annevk> zewt: typically the underlying model is more complex, and the APIs return something serialized
  644. # [17:00] <annevk> zewt: I'm not sure why origin would be any different
  645. # [17:01] <ChrisMorgan> Header fields `Foo: bar` and `Foo: baz` should NOT be treated as equivalent to `Foo: bar, baz`; only if it is a list is that correect…
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  647. # [17:02] <ChrisMorgan> And then of course there’s Set-Cookie… *sigh*
  648. # [17:03] <caitp> it's gonna be okay dude, we can still get hadfield's tweets to the space station
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  650. # [17:05] <ChrisMorgan> caitp: sometimes I’d prefer it if it *didn’t* work, because then we’d need to fix it. As it is, “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” prevails ☹
  651. # [17:05] * ChrisMorgan agrees with the Varnish author on some of the things he’s saying about HTTP/2 and wishing it would break more
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  653. # [17:06] <arunranga> annevk, seems like you’re right: Fetch should totally shoulder request/response pieces. The fact that File APi does it at all is actually a legacy issue.
  654. # [17:07] <arunranga> annevk, but I’m unclear on the bit about URL Parse, namely https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25987. Is it assigned to me? If so, what am I missing?
  655. # [17:09] <ChrisMorgan> Oh, by the way, I don’t like CORS much. Especially the way that preflight requests hate 3xx, that I really don’t understand (it says to treat it as a network error!). Working around that has cost several days’ work for a team that I was working with a few weeks ago, changing a thing in the API to use a 2xx status code with a Location header, the JS client manually following the redirect… ☹
  656. # [17:10] <annevk> ChrisMorgan: seems like you forgot to give feedback somewhere
  657. # [17:10] <annevk> ChrisMorgan: at least, I didn't see it
  658. # [17:10] <annevk> ChrisMorgan: having said that, not sure how we can do that sanely
  659. # [17:10] <annevk> arunranga: it's not clear to me if the current story we have is correct
  660. # [17:11] <ChrisMorgan> annevk: research has shown quite a few people really fed up by that. I wasn’t sure who I should complain to when I discovered this 278 inthe code…
  661. # [17:11] <annevk> ChrisMorgan: is that research published?
  662. # [17:11] <annevk> ChrisMorgan: for starters you can file bugs on the standard: http://fetch.spec.whatwg.org/
  663. # [17:11] <annevk> arunranga: I have somewhat limited time now
  664. # [17:12] <ChrisMorgan> annevk: “research” == Google, Stack Overflow, Chrome bug tracker, &c.
  665. # [17:12] <ChrisMorgan> Most people seem to figure it a browser bug, but I tracked it through the specs and W3C and WHATWG agree that 3xx is treated as network error :-(
  666. # [17:12] <annevk> ChrisMorgan: pointers welcome if you file a bug
  667. # [17:13] <annevk> Yes I know, I wrote the spec
  668. # [17:13] <annevk> (both of them)
  669. # [17:13] <ChrisMorgan> I see that it’s not the easiest problem, but I was wondering about something like just doing another preflight request if necessary.
  670. # [17:14] <ChrisMorgan> Certainly I haven’t thought all the implications through.
  671. # [17:14] <zewt> annevk: fwiw, the "implicit" blob origin approach seems to sidestep this stuff, since the "real" origin stays internal
  672. # [17:14] <ChrisMorgan> But it is a very annoying limitation.
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  674. # [17:14] <ChrisMorgan> CORS as a whole is annoying… but I understand why it is necessary and so there isn’t anything that could obviously be better.
  675. # [17:15] <zewt> one case i noticed where it was visible was when creating a blob URL from inside a file: origin, UAs don't expose the origin, so Chrome gives a bogus "blob:null/uuid" url, but Firefox's "blob:uuid" doesn't care
  676. # [17:15] <ChrisMorgan> annevk: you’ve convinced me, I’ll see about filing a bug about trying to get 3xx to work with preflight requests.
  677. # [17:16] <ChrisMorgan> Probably take a day or two.
  678. # [17:16] <zewt> (the "implicit" approach has its own weirdnesses, like how new URL(blobURL).origin would give different results depending on whether the URL was revoked or not)
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  680. # [17:17] <ChrisMorgan> Now, I should go to sleep.
  681. # [17:18] <annevk> zewt: blob:null would be correct as the serialization of a unique ID origin is null
  682. # [17:19] <annevk> zewt: which is another argument as to why origin is not a string
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  684. # [17:20] <ChrisMorgan> annevk: sorry I can’t help you more.
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  686. # [17:20] <zewt> annevk: if you can't parse the actual origin back out of the blob URL, i think the reasons for the "explicit" origin approach go away
  687. # [17:21] <zewt> maybe not completely, since the URL API would be the same...
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  689. # [17:23] <zewt> i guess it means that taking a blob URL and returning its origin would have to dig into the blob URL store (since eg. for file URLs the origin isn't actually in the URL), but the script-visible resulting .origin string would be identical both ways ("null"), only the internal origin would be different
  690. # [17:23] <zewt> i guess that's ugly but not horrible
  691. # [17:23] <annevk> ChrisMorgan: thanks for your thoughts, have a good night
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  693. # [17:25] <zewt> though it would become script-visible again if there was something like url.isSameOrigin(url2)
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  697. # [17:29] <arunranga> annevk: so is that bug a placeholder bug for tweaking the Fetch story for Blob URLs? I’m not 100% sure what action to take on it, but I can leave what’s currently in http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/FileAPI/#requestResponseModel to Fetch.
  698. # [17:30] <arunranga> (by “that bug” I mean Bug 25987)
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  724. # [18:22] <annevk> arunranga: it's a bug about what the overall model should be
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  728. # [18:28] <zewt> if we want to be able to figure out same-origin for file urls (maybe data too? not following that thread), seems like simple string parsing is out, at least
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  745. # [19:06] <Ms2ger> Did I just get an email with an attachment w3c-standard-....docx?
  746. # [19:06] <SamB> Ms2ger: people are crazy sometimes ...
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  750. # [19:09] <jgraham> Ms2ger: I don't know, did you?
  751. # [19:10] <Ms2ger> Either I did or I'm hallucinating about public-web-perf
  752. # [19:10] <jgraham> I like to pretend that public-web-perf is all hallucination
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  754. # [19:12] * jgraham checks a few recent emails, finds that it is still bz suggesting that specs should actually define things, closes the folder again
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  774. # [19:48] <zewt> crazytalk
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  800. # [20:15] <IZh_> Hixie: Hi. Minory typo. In the Forms section the example of the Pizza form and the example of server query string contains different phone numbers. ;-)
  801. # [20:15] <Hixie> please file all the bugs using the form on the page
  802. # [20:15] <Hixie> i can't track bugs reported on irc :-)
  803. # [20:18] <IZh_> I'll try. At this moment I'm on the phone with very bad internet connection in a subway. :-)
  804. # [20:18] * gsnedders tries and work out how the sanest way to parse the parser spec is…
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  806. # [20:20] <Ms2ger> Bootstrapping
  807. # [20:20] <gsnedders> :)
  808. # [20:21] <gsnedders> I should probably start off by just creating a list of all sentences in the tokenizer spec
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  810. # [20:22] <annevk> zewt: not sure why we'd want to
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  815. # [20:26] <zewt> not sure either, wasn't able to construct a test case (postMessage won't post to a file: iframe)
  816. # [20:27] <zewt> well, you should be able to use a blob url created in a file: url within that page
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  818. # [20:28] <zewt> and if you're getting the origin by parsing the string, you can't check that since all you have is "null"
  819. # [20:29] <annevk> I'm not too concerned about file URL compat
  820. # [20:31] <zewt> well, it works in browsers today
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  822. # [20:31] <zewt> (at least Chrome, on a quick test)
  823. # [20:35] <zewt> same for data: urls, which also give blob:null/uuid urls
  824. # [20:35] <zewt> making blob urls not work inside anything with a unique origin doesn't seem good
  825. # [20:38] <annevk> I guess they always compare against the serialized origin in which case it would always work
  826. # [20:39] <annevk> As I suggested earlier, just serialize the origin and append "/" and see if it's a substring
  827. # [20:40] <zewt> but the serialized origin is just "null", so it wouldn't be comparing that they're the same origin, it'd consider two different "unique origins" as being the same origin since they serialize the same
  828. # [20:41] <zewt> so i guess you could define that to work, but i'd imagine that'd just be defeating the check
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  830. # [20:46] <annevk> I don't think it would combined with the fact that the blob URL store is unique per environment
  831. # [20:47] <annevk> As document.domain only works for HTTP URLs
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  835. # [20:50] <zewt> i guess it just seems like asking for trouble that if you create a blob URL in two different unique origins, you end up with two URLs that are same-origin with each other
  836. # [20:51] <zewt> no idea what the side-effects would be, just that it seems like unexpected behavior in a security-sensitive value
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  840. # [20:59] <Philip`> gsnedders: I tried parsing the parser spec once, and gave up and decided it was way easier and more reliable to just transcribe it into a declarative language by hand
  841. # [21:03] * Quits: izhak (~izhak@92.248.142.152) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  842. # [21:04] <Hixie> ok well my attempt to define how the JS loader works has kinda run aground before getting started. I guess es-discuss isn't going to be getting much traffic during the f2f.
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  844. # [21:12] <Hixie> firefox does such a great job of actually rendering the HTML spec once it's loaded
  845. # [21:12] <Hixie> i wish i had a browser with chrome's load-time behaviour and firefox's render-time behaviour, on the spec...
  846. # [21:14] * SamB remembers about that ghost of an idea he had to implement chunking in JS using display:none ...
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  849. # [21:16] <gsnedders> Philip`: I know. I cited your mailing list post about that in my BSci thesis ;P
  850. # [21:17] <SamB> I wonder if the same is true of, say, the Relax NG or Relax NG Compact spec ...
  851. # [21:18] <SamB> I remember seeing something that looked suspiciously like a formal semantics in one or both of those ...
  852. # [21:18] <gsnedders> So my attempt to directly translate the spec into a declarative language led to bugs in the transcription
  853. # [21:19] <gsnedders> So I'm unsure about any property proven of that model
  854. # [21:19] <gsnedders> Because I don't trust it models the spec.
  855. # [21:19] * npcomp is now known as npcomp[away]
  856. # [21:20] <Hixie> bugs in the transcription?
  857. # [21:20] <gsnedders> The transcribed, formal, declarative copy didn't match the spec.
  858. # [21:22] <Hixie> was it an automated transcription?
  859. # [21:22] <gsnedders> No. By hand.
  860. # [21:22] <Hixie> ah
  861. # [21:23] <gsnedders> Unrelated: how is my desk such a mess?
  862. # [21:26] <gsnedders> /Why/ do I have year old train tickets? When am I going to need them?
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  866. # [21:28] <Philip`> gsnedders: You should just run it against the test suite until it passes
  867. # [21:28] <Philip`> You'll have to do that anyway, because there's no way to tell your automatic translation thing isn't full of bugs
  868. # [21:29] <Huvet> I get a crash in html5lib==1.0b3 with '<z\uFFFD>' -> ValueError: chr() arg not in range(256) -- is this a known bug?
  869. # [21:30] <Hixie> foolip: ping
  870. # [21:30] <Philip`> gsnedders: and it's much easier to notice and fix bugs in a manual translation, than in a script that's full of regexps that try to pattern-match all the dozens of ways Hixie can phrase the same concept
  871. # [21:30] <Hixie> heh
  872. # [21:31] <gsnedders> Huvet: using lxml?
  873. # [21:31] <gsnedders> Huvet: probably a known bug
  874. # [21:31] <Huvet> gsnedders: yes
  875. # [21:32] <Philip`> qr/Act as if an end tag (?:token )?with (?:the )?tag name "(\S+)" had been seen, (?:and )?then, if that token wasn't ignored, reprocess the current token\./
  876. # [21:32] <IZh> Why there are no term "positive integer"? There are lots of "non-negative integer greater than zero".
  877. # [21:32] <Philip`> (from my old attempt at a translator)
  878. # [21:32] <Hixie> foolip: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24684
  879. # [21:32] <gsnedders> Philip`: I was hoping from my brief experiment to do stuff a bit better than that
  880. # [21:32] <gsnedders> IZh: because people get into arguments about what a positive integer is
  881. # [21:32] <Hixie> i recommend just using an NLP library
  882. # [21:32] <gsnedders> Hixie: my plan.
  883. # [21:32] * Hixie ducks and runs
  884. # [21:32] <gsnedders> Hixie: Not actually using a full parser, because that';ll never work
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  886. # [21:33] <gsnedders> Hixie: But can likely get somewhere
  887. # [21:33] <IZh> gsnedders: Hmm... Is there any another meaning of what positive integer could be?
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  889. # [21:33] <gsnedders> (Your grammar is weird in places in the spec. :))
  890. # [21:33] <gsnedders> IZh: Some include 0.
  891. # [21:33] <annevk> zewt: they wouldn't be able to reach each other since each would have its own unique blob URL store
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  894. # [21:34] <annevk> zewt: the additional origin check is only relevant for document.domain purposes afaict
  895. # [21:34] <IZh> gsnedders: I would send them back to school. Zero is not a positive.
  896. # [21:34] <Hixie> gsnedders: i meant some mythical library that literally just understands the spec :-)
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  899. # [21:35] <annevk> foolip: wanna cleanup https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=341854 ?
  900. # [21:36] <annevk> I wish someone on Gecko's end would drop xml:base already
  901. # [21:36] <Ms2ger> Not it
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  903. # [21:38] <caitp> is URLUtils.searchParams actually implemented anywhere?
  904. # [21:38] <IZh> Hixie: When ACID4 will be ready?
  905. # [21:39] <Ms2ger> Never
  906. # [21:39] <Ms2ger> The Acid tests have been increasingly bad for the web, so we stopped doing them
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  908. # [21:39] <annevk> caitp: Gecko
  909. # [21:40] <caitp> hmm
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  911. # [21:40] <IZh> Ms2ger: why bad?
  912. # [21:40] <caitp> that's too bad, it would be really convenient to use them :( I guess that will give me something to hack into blink then
  913. # [21:40] <Ms2ger> Acid2 caused the only quirks-mode / standards-mode difference in the HTML parser
  914. # [21:40] <Ms2ger> And it caused years of confusion about -- in comments
  915. # [21:40] <annevk> I wonder why window.location.searchParams is not a thing
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  917. # [21:41] <Ms2ger> Acid3... *sigh*
  918. # [21:41] <SamB> Hixie: it sounds like you need more macros ;-P
  919. # [21:41] <Ms2ger> annevk can give you some examples of what acid3 did... I'm off for today
  920. # [21:41] <Hixie> IZh: probably not until browsers stop caring about standards again
  921. # [21:42] <annevk> Ms2ger: isn't there enough written about that?
  922. # [21:42] <Hixie> Ms2ger: i think the acid tests did lots of good stuff, but for sure they also had some negative side-effects.
  923. # [21:42] <Ms2ger> Sure
  924. # [21:42] <annevk> Yes, it's grey again, not white or black
  925. # [21:42] <Ms2ger> I feel like the good stuff/bad stuff ratio decreased over time, though
  926. # [21:43] <caitp> hmm, I guess writing to searchParams in gecko has no effect, darn.
  927. # [21:43] <IZh> Never thought that tests may harm...
  928. # [21:43] <Ms2ger> If passing them is a goal by itself, regardless of what behaviour it tests for...
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  930. # [21:45] <IZh> Looks like I'm very ancient and out-of-dated. ;-)
  931. # [21:46] <caitp> they have surgery to fix that these days, it worked wonders for pete burns
  932. # [21:48] <gsnedders> Hixie: bah, all NLP libraries are terrible, they are pretty much all done based on Chomsky's generative grammars, which is an utterly stupid idea.
  933. # [21:48] <gsnedders> But I'm not getting on that soapbox. :)
  934. # [21:49] <gsnedders> IZh: The problem with the Acid tests is they mostly force people to implement specs that nobody actually cares about and everyone has interoperably broken for years.
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  937. # [21:51] <IZh> gsnedders: I see...
  938. # [21:51] <Hixie> actually the acid tests were pretty carefully written to not do that, by and large
  939. # [21:52] <gsnedders> still, a few pretty notable cases (like the comment parsing stuff)
  940. # [21:52] <gsnedders> I think everyone parsed <p><table> the same as well?
  941. # [21:53] <Hixie> well the two things you said are differnet issues
  942. # [21:54] <Hixie> acid2 dates back to the days where we were trying to get browsers to do the right thing in standards mode, rather than fixing the specs.
  943. # [21:54] <Hixie> back before we (I, at least) understand that specs were not stone tablets handed down from on high
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  945. # [21:54] <Hixie> understood
  946. # [21:55] <SamB> Hixie: basically, when you were young and naive?
  947. # [21:55] <Hixie> well, naive, anyway
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  950. # [21:56] <IZh> Off the topic: I'm waiting for wildcards in css-properties. I don't like to see series of -x-moz, -x-ie, -x-opera, -x-webkit... doing the same things under similar names. Why not use -x-*-something or -x-anyvendor-something?
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  952. # [21:58] <caitp> what problem would that solve other than making experimental properties less cumbersome to use in css?
  953. # [21:58] <SamB> IZh: I thought the trend was to just drop the prefixes?
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  955. # [21:59] <SamB> and use other mechanisms to discourage use way too early
  956. # [22:01] <Hixie> hahahahaha
  957. # [22:01] <Hixie> "In total, 3190 tests fail to pass in two implementations." "We contend that the specification being proposed for advancement through the process has demonstrated interoperability."
  958. # [22:02] <SamB> how many tests did they have?
  959. # [22:02] <zewt> 3190
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  961. # [22:02] <zewt> (no idea heh)
  962. # [22:03] <SamB> if zewt is right, can we exile the perpetrators
  963. # [22:03] <Hixie> they have about 1000 tests, with about 100 assertions in each test on average
  964. # [22:04] <IZh> SamB: the trend is good.
  965. # [22:04] <zewt> number of assertions beyond the first to fail in a test tends to be meaningless, at least in my tests
  966. # [22:05] * SamB is a bit confused at the idea of the test continuing past failed asserts
  967. # [22:05] * SamB guesses asserts mean something strange in JS ...
  968. # [22:05] <Philip`> Is it saying there are two implementations which the tests do not pass in, or that there are not two implementations which the tests pass in?
  969. # [22:05] <Hixie> the coverage is pretty anemic. There's some areas that have good coverage, e.g. the canvas features (though not new ones), <video>, and parsing
  970. # [22:05] <SamB> Philip`: lol
  971. # [22:05] <Hixie> Philip`: the latter
  972. # [22:06] <Hixie> for contrast, there are 3539 occurances of the word "must" in the HTML spec
  973. # [22:06] <Hixie> (very few of which are in the parser section)
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  975. # [22:07] <SamB> Hixie: what about in the *real* HTML spec
  976. # [22:07] <Hixie> that's the one i was talking about
  977. # [22:07] <SamB> oh
  978. # [22:07] <Hixie> i guess their fork is missing some sections so they'll have fewer
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  980. # [22:08] <SamB> I'm kind of surprised by "very few of which are in the parser section"
  981. # [22:09] <gsnedders> the parser section is: "you MUST use the following state machine: [insert thousands of lines of state machine]"
  982. # [22:09] <gsnedders> Hixie: that on public-html?
  983. # [22:09] <Hixie> yeah
  984. # [22:09] <Hixie> SamB: what gsnedders said
  985. # [22:10] <SamB> ah, well, okay
  986. # [22:10] <SamB> I figured it was something like that ...
  987. # [22:10] <SamB> hidden/factored-out musts ...
  988. # [22:11] <gsnedders> Hixie: where? I see no reference to the word "advancement" since 2012?
  989. # [22:11] <Hixie> it was in the -details.html file robin linked to
  990. # [22:11] <Hixie> sorry
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  992. # [22:14] <gsnedders> The fun part is the whole sections of the spec with no tests.
  993. # [22:14] <gsnedders> Like #loading
  994. # [22:14] <caitp> that does sound like fun
  995. # [22:14] <caitp> exhilarating
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  1014. # [22:31] <jgraham> Hixie: is this the HTML spec?
  1015. # [22:31] <Hixie> is what the HTML spec?
  1016. # [22:32] <jgraham> I think it makes a lot more sense to do that than to hold the spec up until implementors fix all the tests, which they won't
  1017. # [22:32] <jgraham> s/tests/bugs/
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  1019. # [22:32] <jgraham> The thing about testing
  1020. # [22:32] <Hixie> i think it makes perfect sense to publish a patent policy snapshot, for sure
  1021. # [22:33] <Hixie> but if they want to do that, why pretend they have a real test suite yet
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  1023. # [22:34] <jgraham> Hixie: and your assertion that there are 1000 tests with 100 asserts each is just wrong
  1024. # [22:34] <Hixie> yeah, i later found http://www.w3c-test.org/html/dom/reflection-embedded.html which alone is 17% of the test suite
  1025. # [22:35] <Hixie> so the 100 is more a mean than a median
  1026. # [22:35] <jgraham> Counting files just doesn't make any sense
  1027. # [22:35] <jgraham> You could put the same 100 tests in 100 files and 100 tests in 1 file
  1028. # [22:36] <jgraham> It would be the same amount of testing
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  1030. # [22:36] <SamB> yeah
  1031. # [22:36] <Hixie> sure. i was saying this in the context of robin comparing to the svg and css test suites, where he was citing test file numbers.
  1032. # [22:37] <Hixie> svg had ~300 tests, but since each one tested a few hundred thousand pixels, it's more like 300,000,000 test assertions
  1033. # [22:37] <jgraham> I think that's an absurd way to look at it
  1034. # [22:37] <SamB> indeed
  1035. # [22:37] <Hixie> it's not clear to me that numbers are a useful way to look at it at all
  1036. # [22:37] <Hixie> what matters is coverage
  1037. # [22:37] <SamB> many of those pixels aren't even all that important
  1038. # [22:38] <Hixie> SamB: many of the test assertions aren't even all that important too :-)
  1039. # [22:38] <jgraham> Not important in a different way
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  1042. # [22:39] <SamB> I mean, you know, it's not the end of the world if we don't get a byte-for-byte identical rasterization on every renderer
  1043. # [22:39] <jgraham> I agree that counting tests isn't a very useful exercise
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  1045. # [22:39] <jgraham> But I also think that intentionally blocking progress on something we agree is useful for technical reasons is more stupid
  1046. # [22:40] <Hixie> well sure. that the process is dumb is something i believe in so strongly that i quit the w3c.
  1047. # [22:40] <Hixie> my complaint was in the context of robin saying this test suite was more useful than previous test suites, and trying to justify a huge error rate that way.
  1048. # [22:40] <SamB> yeah, lintian actually has lots of tests that test many checks each
  1049. # [22:40] <Hixie> (i posted my rant on public-html, fwiw)
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  1051. # [22:41] <jgraham> I saw
  1052. # [22:41] <jgraham> I strongly suspect it is better than past testsuites
  1053. # [22:41] <SamB> yeah, somehow I doubt the SVG testsuite outright fails at a single pixel component being off by one ...
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  1055. # [22:43] <Hixie> the CSS2.1 test suite isn't bad either
  1056. # [22:43] <Hixie> i don't have a good handle on the coverage of either the CSS2.1 test suite or the HTML test suite, but the HTML test suite sure has some large holes
  1057. # [22:43] <Hixie> (which isn't a criticism of the effort, it's obviously an on-going effort)
  1058. # [22:44] <Hixie> (it's only a criticism of an attempt to use it as a proxy for something that has full coverage)
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  1060. # [22:45] <SamB> basically, I guess what I mean is that having tests fail when there is actually nothing wrong is BAD BAD BAD
  1061. # [22:45] * Joins: nessy (~silviapf@101.164.214.231)
  1062. # [22:46] <Hixie> where are tests failing when there's nothing wrong?
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  1065. # [22:48] <SamB> Hixie: well, either there are loads HTML5 tests that are improperly failing, OR interop is actually fairly bad for the tested stuff
  1066. # [22:48] <Hixie> interop is actually fairly bad for the tested stuff.
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  1068. # [22:48] <SamB> you don't just get to hand-wave away the failing tests
  1069. # [22:48] <Hixie> the tested stuff that fails, anyway
  1070. # [22:49] <Hixie> couldn't agree more
  1071. # [22:49] <SamB> even if GDB's test suite *is* a gross offender here
  1072. # [22:49] <Hixie> (that's why i predicted REC in 2022, not 2014, back when i cared about this)
  1073. # [22:50] <Hixie> the fundamental problem is that the w3c is trying to use a broken process. They want patent coverage, which is a good thing to get ASAP, but their process says they can only get it once they have Proved Interoperability.
  1074. # [22:50] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  1075. # [22:50] <Hixie> there's just no reason they should gate the former on the latter.
  1076. # [22:50] <SamB> it basically never goes green, so consequently it's not easy to catch new/reintroduced problems in the bud
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  1078. # [22:50] <SamB> Hixie: indeed
  1079. # [22:51] <SamB> that's insane
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  1081. # [22:51] <SamB> they should demand the patent stuff ASAP
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  1085. # [23:00] <zewt> Hixie: i know nothing about the details, but maybe the agreements with people giving patent licenses depend on that, and they're afraid that asking everyone to change that could harm them somehow? (eg. "licenseholders review patent contract and someone decides they're better off keeping their landmines")
  1086. # [23:01] * Joins: ambv_ (~ambv@206.108.217.134)
  1087. # [23:01] <Hixie> not clear on what they could be concerned about
  1088. # [23:02] <Hixie> a patent license is always against a specific piece of text
  1089. # [23:02] <zewt> (not saying that'd be a good or bad reason, but it'd be a reason that I could parse)
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  1092. # [23:04] <zewt> it's not the patent license that would change, it's the process for giving the license
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  1094. # [23:05] <zewt> has the Process(r) for receiving patent licensing changed in recent memory (say, a couple years)?
  1095. # [23:06] <zewt> (not an important question, just wondering if changing this would be opening an old box that nobody's modified in a decade, or if it's been dusted off periodically for something or other)
  1096. # [23:06] <Hixie> no
  1097. # [23:06] <Hixie> it's a decade+ old
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  1099. # [23:07] <zewt> well, if the compiler for changing the process (getting w3c members to agree to the change, possibly bringing Executives into the picture) hasn't been invoked in a decade, i could at least follow why they'd be uneasy about doing so
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  1102. # [23:08] <annevk> krit: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webappsec/2014Jun/0093.html reads a bit like STFU
  1103. # [23:08] <zewt> (in any case i'd hope that the people who would initiate such a change would at least be willing to say in broad terms why they won't do it, so I guess there's not much point in my guessing)
  1104. # [23:09] <jgraham> Hand waving away the failing stuff *for the purposes of the Process* is the only pragmatic way to get W3C to put some text under their patent policy and stop focussing on a out of date draft
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  1106. # [23:11] <jgraham> SamB: You can effectively use a testsuite where tests fail. You just have to know which tests fail
  1107. # [23:11] <SamB> jgraham: okay, yeah, that can work too
  1108. # [23:11] <SamB> but AFAICT we haven't got that either
  1109. # [23:12] * Quits: bzed (~bzed@devel.recluse.de) (Quit: leaving)
  1110. # [23:12] <zewt> jgraham: yeah, i guess the "50000 tests are failing, interop success!" silliness is ignorable if the only purpose is to invoke patent agreements (so long as BS'ing the test results like that doesn't jeopardize the license, which I'd hope it doesn't)
  1111. # [23:13] <jgraham> SamB: We (Mozilla) do. It's not quite stable enough for production yet, but it works
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  1114. # [23:13] <jgraham> (and the code we use is open source and can be adapted for other browsers)
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  1118. # [23:15] <krit> annevk: the opposite is the case. I would like to see progress. You are right that the WG didn't spend a hell of time on fetching and security yet. Especially I didn't have much time.
  1119. # [23:16] <SamB> jgraham: I was referring to GDB, in case that wasn't clear
  1120. # [23:16] <krit> annevk: I really welcome help on this topic. I added some content so that people feel more encouraged to add stuff to the Wiki. It is less likely that people contribute to an empty Wiki.
  1121. # [23:17] <SamB> where it'd tend to be at LEAST arch-dependent
  1122. # [23:18] <SamB> and, hmm, I guess some of them depend on e.g. whether libc or gcc was built with "systemtap" probes
  1123. # [23:20] <SamB> (not actually intended for use with systemtap, but using its sys/sdt.h and thus its probe ABI)
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  1126. # [23:20] <jsbell> Hixie: thanks for the events vs. microtasks answer. Exactly what I was hoping for.
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  1128. # [23:28] <Hixie> jsbell: np. it's got lots of rough edges still, unfortunately.
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  1133. # [23:36] <jgraham> SamB: Oh, it wasn't
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  1143. # [23:48] <Hixie> where do i file bugs to suggest something for the html test suite to test, again?
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  1145. # [23:48] <Hixie> https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/issues ?
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  1147. # [23:49] <Hixie> looks like yes
  1148. # [23:53] <Hixie> annevk: ping https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25504
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  1152. # Session Close: Fri Jun 06 00:00:01 2014

The end :)