/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-06-14 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Jun 14 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  4. # [00:01] <Hixie> <dummy><table><template><table><template><table><script> gives you four EOF messages
  5. # [00:01] <Hixie> but can you guess which four? :-)
  6. # [00:03] <TabAtkins> jgraham: Preach it.
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  16. # [00:28] <SimonSapin> jgraham: I use git-cola to do the same by click-selecting lines
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  23. # [00:54] <gsnedders> Hixie: I now want to see if there's an upper-bound on the number of EOF errors… :)
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  37. # [01:06] <Hixie> gsnedders: well each <template> gives one, so not strictly
  38. # [01:06] <Hixie> gsnedders: but if you count all those as one... then yeah, probably
  39. # [01:07] <zewt> target=_blank needs to be shot into the sun
  40. # [01:07] <zewt> preferably hard enough that it shoots out the other side of the sun, so it can fall into the sun a second time
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  42. # [01:08] <gsnedders> Hixie: strictly, because why would I care about anything but being technically correct? :)
  43. # [01:08] <gsnedders> All other forms of correct are just secondary to that.
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  45. # [01:11] <gsnedders> hahaha. So apparently here any vehicle over 3m tall must have a sign in the cab giving the height… in feet and inches.
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  47. # [01:18] <Hixie> ok who was the joker who put "Not Known" as the parse error
  48. # [01:19] <gsnedders> Hixie: ezyang
  49. # [01:20] <gsnedders> We only sorted out the format of the errors about a year ago, before them all that was checked was number
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  52. # [01:26] <Hixie> oh my version way back when didn't haver errors?
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  54. # [01:28] <gsnedders> It may well have
  55. # [01:28] <gsnedders> But no impl paid attention to the format, just the number
  56. # [01:28] <gsnedders> So they ceased being at all meaningful except for the number
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  58. # [01:29] <Hixie> well that's all that's meaningful now, still, no?
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  60. # [01:30] <gsnedders> In *theory* we should now have (col, row): [meaningless]
  61. # [01:30] <Hixie> ah
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  63. # [01:30] <Hixie> well i'm not doing that, and a lot of them don't have that :-)
  64. # [01:30] <gsnedders> As I said, in theory. :)
  65. # [01:30] <Hixie> also, the ones that do have col,row almost always have the row off by one
  66. # [01:30] <Hixie> compared to what mine outputs
  67. # [01:31] <gsnedders> zero/one-base?
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  69. # [01:31] <Hixie> no, i think they're both 1-based, but i for "<foo>" i output the error at 1,6, and the tests have it at 1,5
  70. # [01:31] <Hixie> after the token, vs on the last character of the token
  71. # [01:32] <Hixie> (mine leads to a better experience when integrated with an IDE, imho)
  72. # [01:32] <gsnedders> i.e., we give the position of the next character to be consumed?
  73. # [01:33] <Hixie> i do, you give the position of the last consumed character
  74. # [01:33] <Hixie> but really the positions are debatable
  75. # [01:33] <Hixie> i mean, the position of a missing doctype is before the token that discovers it, for example
  76. # [01:33] <Hixie> not after it
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  79. # [01:34] <gsnedders> so we give the position of what the spec calls the "current input character"?
  80. # [01:34] <gsnedders> which seems sensible from an API POV
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  83. # [01:34] <Hixie> yeah, i think so
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  85. # [01:35] <Hixie> anyway, that's not documented
  86. # [01:35] <annevk> My memory of these things is not great, but I think to remember when we started hacking we just cared about parse errors as a boolean; if it expected any and we reported any, it was good
  87. # [01:35] <Hixie> so it doesn't exist :-P
  88. # [01:35] <gsnedders> Hixie: Indeed. :)
  89. # [01:35] <Hixie> annevk: i'm updating the tests to have an accurate number, at least
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  91. # [01:36] <annevk> I haven't really touched any HTML parsing code for a long time now. WebVTT was fun to do. Hopefully some other other format comes along at some point
  92. # [01:36] <annevk> WebVTT was actually really nice. Wrote it while hanging out with MikeSmith eating cookies and drinking tea in his neighbourhood
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  99. # [01:50] <gsnedders> jgraham: speaking of html5lib, what do I need to get code-review of anything nowadays? bah!
  100. # [01:50] <Hixie> blimey
  101. # [01:51] <Hixie> i pass 8109 tests, but "<a><b><b><p></a>" is enough to take me down
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  103. # [01:51] <gsnedders> The AAA really needs more test coverage. :(
  104. # [01:51] <Hixie> (hard, to, that's a null deref crash)
  105. # [01:51] <Hixie> too
  106. # [01:51] <Hixie> the problem with the AAA is that it's like the bidi model and margin collapsing and the inline box model
  107. # [01:52] <Hixie> at any given time, nobody actually understands it
  108. # [01:52] <gsnedders> :)
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  110. # [01:52] <Hixie> for brief periods of time, there'll be one person who actually groks it
  111. # [01:52] <Hixie> but they don't grok it for long enough to write many tests
  112. # [01:52] <Hixie> because otherwise they'll go mad
  113. # [01:53] <gsnedders> I remember when I was fixing CSS 2.1 tests originally by various Opera people
  114. # [01:53] <gsnedders> I reached the bidi ones and just nope'd straight outta there
  115. # [01:53] <Hixie> hah
  116. # [01:53] <Hixie> the trick with bidi ones
  117. # [01:53] <Hixie> is to write it all on pieces of paper
  118. # [01:53] <Hixie> and cut them up
  119. # [01:53] <Hixie> and then do it by hand that way
  120. # [01:53] <Hixie> (seriously)
  121. # [01:54] <jgraham> gsnedders: Ummm. Good question
  122. # [01:54] * jgraham sleep
  123. # [01:54] <gsnedders> I think in one of the cases I went, "oh, hey fantasai… see these tests you wrote years ago? yeah, could you fix them?"
  124. # [01:55] <gsnedders> jgraham: I only really care about my PRs, I can review other people's code. :P
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  126. # [01:56] <gsnedders> Hixie: What I really want is a formal model of the spec so I can just model things as satisfaction problems and get tests like that :)
  127. # [01:57] <Hixie> good luck
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  130. # [01:58] <gsnedders> really all I need is a decent formal model that I'm relatively sure matches the spec
  131. # [01:58] <Hixie> crap now i only pass 6928 tests
  132. # [01:58] <Hixie> what did i do!
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  134. # [01:58] <gsnedders> you broke stuff!
  135. # [01:59] <gsnedders> damn it Hixie, you're meant to be the all-knowing master of HTML, and you can't even parse it? pff!
  136. # [01:59] <Hixie> ohhhh.... i had a bogus assert
  137. # [01:59] <Hixie> where the spec says "if any", it really means "if any", not "there will be one and you should assert there is one"
  138. # [02:00] <Hixie> 8115 tests
  139. # [02:00] <gsnedders> Last time anyone was claiming stuff about the AAA around me I didn't claim to know what it did, I just threw assertions into html5lib and ran the testsuite and said, "that appears to be true' :)
  140. # [02:00] <Hixie> yeah
  141. # [02:00] <Hixie> seems reasonable
  142. # [02:01] <Hixie> goddamnit, "<div><a><b><u><i><code><div></a>"
  143. # [02:01] <gsnedders> It amusing watching you go through this pain for a change. :)
  144. # [02:01] <Hixie> hey, i was the first one to implement this damn algorithm :-P
  145. # [02:01] <Hixie> this is my third attempt
  146. # [02:02] <Hixie> (second in a programming language, i'm counting the spec as one)
  147. # [02:02] <Hixie> one day i'll do it in a language that's actually useful to someone
  148. # [02:02] <gsnedders> XD
  149. # [02:02] <zewt> if the spec counts as an implementation, shouldn't it count towards interop
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  151. # [02:02] <Hixie> ok this bug appears to be related to the bookmark thing in the AAA
  152. # [02:03] <Hixie> unfortuantely i don't actually understand the bookmark thing in the AAA
  153. # [02:03] <Hixie> i was hoping i had it right...
  154. # [02:03] <gsnedders> Thereby proving your statement about the AAA above correct. :)
  155. # [02:04] <Hixie> it's really tempting to implement the bookmark thing by literally inserting something into the array
  156. # [02:04] <Hixie> and then searching for it
  157. # [02:04] <Hixie> but that's pretty terrible
  158. # [02:04] <gsnedders> Pretty sure that's what html5lib does
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  160. # [02:07] <Hixie> aha
  161. # [02:07] <Hixie> i think i got it
  162. # [02:08] <Hixie> i remove something from the list but don't fix the bookmark
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  165. # [02:13] <Hixie> and now <p><b><b><b><b><p>x !
  166. # [02:13] <Hixie> noahhhhh!
  167. # [02:13] <gsnedders> noah's ark?
  168. # [02:14] <Hixie> could have sworn i implement noah
  169. # [02:14] <gsnedders> but do you implement it correctly?
  170. # [02:14] <Hixie> i guess not...
  171. # [02:15] <Hixie> oh
  172. # [02:15] <Hixie> hahaha
  173. # [02:15] <Hixie> they were only considered matches if they had attributes
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  175. # [02:16] <Hixie> holy kittens!!!
  176. # [02:16] <Hixie> 8123 tests passed
  177. # [02:16] <Hixie> that's all of them
  178. # [02:16] <Hixie> well, all except the fragment mode tests
  179. # [02:22] <Hixie> gsnedders: so, i skip 106 tests, but i do run all the tree construction ones twice, so that kind of makes up for it. total time to run all the tests in an optimised build on the machine hosting whatwg.org (a dreamhost virtual host) is: 1.5s.
  180. # [02:23] <Hixie> gsnedders: you gonna be online in a couple of hours?
  181. # [02:24] <gsnedders> Hixie: I need to sleep!
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  183. # [02:24] <Hixie> gsnedders: k
  184. # [02:24] <Hixie> gsnedders: ping me tomorrow, we can go through the test fixes
  185. # [02:24] <gsnedders> Hixie: am hosting party tomorrow, starting probably around the time you get up :)
  186. # [02:25] <Hixie> k well ping me whenever
  187. # [02:25] <Hixie> d'oh
  188. # [02:25] <gsnedders> will do, or ping me w/e
  189. # [02:25] <Hixie> i tried to optimise it further and the compiler said "Fatal: Procedure too complex, it requires too many registers"
  190. # [02:25] <Hixie> (specifically, trying to inline all the stuff into the function that handles entities)
  191. # [02:26] <Hixie> guess 1.5s will have to be fast enough
  192. # [02:26] <Hixie> next thing to try is parsing the spec
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  194. # [02:26] <Hixie> but i gotta go now
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  199. # [02:37] <jamesr_> what language is hixie writing this parser in?
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  201. # [02:38] <TabAtkins> object pascal
  202. # [02:39] <gsnedders> It's Hixie, what makes you think he'd choose something sane?
  203. # [02:39] <TabAtkins> (i think - i've said so once already, and he didn't correct me)
  204. # [02:39] <gsnedders> (you are)
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  206. # [02:46] <Hixie> freepascal, technically, but yeah
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  208. # [02:47] <Hixie> http://software.hixie.ch/libraries/pascal/html/src/htmlparser.pas
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  224. # [03:04] <Hixie> ok so my parser parser the HTML spec source (6 megs,) and then reserialises it in the test format used by the tests, in 24 seconds
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  226. # [03:05] <Hixie> (13s user+sys)
  227. # [03:06] <Hixie> gonna have to work on improving that
  228. # [03:06] <gsnedders> surprisingly large diff between real and cpu time
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  412. # [17:58] <annevk> Hixie: https://twitter.com/fvsch/status/477797954385113089 (seems easy enough)
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  483. # Session Close: Sun Jun 15 00:00:00 2014

The end :)