/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-07-04 / end

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  97. # [03:25] <estellevw> While autofocus should only be used once per document, if there were more than one in the document, the autofocus attribute used to target the last element with the autofocus attribute. I tested 3 months ago, and all browsers tested did this. testing again today, Chrome and Firefox now give focus to the first occurrence of autofocus. Did the spec change. I’ve failed to successfully Google any discussion on that topic.
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  100. # [03:34] <caitp> > If the user agent has already reached the last step of this list of steps in response to an element being inserted into a Document whose top-level browsing context's active document is the same as target's top-level browsing context's active document, abort these steps.
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  102. # [03:34] <caitp> I take that to mean, for a given browsing context, only autofocus the first control with an autofocus attribute?
  103. # [03:35] <estellevw> started in chrome 34
  104. # [03:35] <estellevw> they used to all focus on the last occurence of autofocus
  105. # [03:35] <estellevw> 34+ focuses on the first instead
  106. # [03:36] <estellevw> yes
  107. # [03:37] <caitp> you can probably find discussion on it if you svn/git blame it
  108. # [03:38] <caitp> github doesn't feel it's worth its effort though :>
  109. # [03:39] <estellevw> can’t even find it in svn — then, of course, not sure of the exact range to inspect
  110. # [03:41] <caitp> might be able to find mention of it in implementation code, too
  111. # [03:41] <caitp> not sure if that would live in parsing or DOM though, otoh
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  113. # [03:43] <estellevw> trying to figure out if it’s a bug or feature. The spec doesn’t clarify it for me http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/association-of-controls-and-forms.html#autofocusing-a-form-control:-the-autofocus-attribute
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  201. # [08:02] <annevk> Figuring out context is hard :-(
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  207. # [08:13] <jungkees> annevk: During the SW registration process, which is not a task as you told,
  208. # [08:13] <jungkees> annevk: If I resolve a promise in a step..
  209. # [08:14] <jungkees> annevk: is it queued as a microtask?
  210. # [08:14] <annevk> jungkees: no, but unless you change state as well, that is fine, as a promise can only be observed from a microtask
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  212. # [08:18] <jungkees> annevk: I don't think I understood the term "state" you explained. Is it a term defined in a spec or general word to designate platform state?
  213. # [08:19] <annevk> jungkees: general; like changing properties, dispatching events
  214. # [08:19] <annevk> jungkees: I think we should define asynchronous as a term to make this whole thing more clear, but Hixie disagrees so far
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  216. # [08:22] <jungkees> annevk: then in SW registration I just mentioned, when I resolve a promise in step A, the fulfillment cb is executed first? or the subsequent steps in the algorithm executed first?
  217. # [08:22] * annevk looks
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  219. # [08:23] <annevk> jungkees: oh, if the algorithm is asynchronous, you can't predict that
  220. # [08:24] <jungkees> annevk: yeah.. it seems if the asynch part of the algorithm is a definitive task in a queue, it'll be clearer to reason it about
  221. # [08:25] <annevk> jungkees: you don't want your algorithms to interfere with the main thread
  222. # [08:25] <annevk> jungkees: the event loop is off limits, it's synchronous code
  223. # [08:25] <annevk> jungkees: delaying painting and whatnot
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  225. # [08:27] <jungkees> annevk: weird you express the event loop is synchronous code though..
  226. # [08:28] <annevk> jungkees: why? It's just a queue of bits of code run after each other, nothing goes in parallel
  227. # [08:28] <jungkees> annevk: so you meant the queue implement itself.. the while loop
  228. # [08:28] <annevk> jungkees: you lost me
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  232. # [08:32] <annevk> jungkees: the rules are very simple, specification algorithms run in parallel (unless they're super cheap and can be done synchronous) and only ever queue tasks or microtasks to set a property or dispatch an event
  233. # [08:32] <SamB> and, yes, the event loop is in fact a loop
  234. # [08:33] <jungkees> annevk: SamB alright
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  243. # [08:44] <jungkees> annevk: is there any reason you don't queue a task to fire events in XHR? it just fire events without queuing a task
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  245. # [08:44] <jungkees> annevk: I've done the same in SW registration
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  247. # [08:44] <jungkees> annevk: think it should queue a task instead?
  248. # [08:54] <annevk> jungkees: XMLHttpRequest queues tasks for events, pointer?
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  252. # [08:56] <annevk> jungkees: it also does a bunch of other stuff on such tasks usually
  253. # [09:00] <jungkees> annevk: like step11.2 in http://xhr.spec.whatwg.org/#dom-xmlhttprequest-send
  254. # [09:01] <jungkees> annevk: maybe because it's in main thread?
  255. # [09:03] <jungkees> annevk: then in SW case, I think I need to queue a task for firing the events
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  264. # [09:26] <annevk> jungkees: yeah, that's synchronous
  265. # [09:28] <SamB> wait, are they seriously using segmentation for NaCl?
  266. # [09:29] <annevk> jungkees: it's also necessary for updating .state
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  269. # [09:29] <jungkees> annevk: yeah, i'll do that; queue a task to update .state and fire events on the object
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  271. # [09:30] <SamB> ECHAN
  272. # [09:40] <jungkees> annevk: per https://github.com/w3ctag/promises-guide#queue-tasks-to-invoke-user-code, when asynchronously running algorithm do "resolve p with x", it seems do "queue a task to call the callback cb with x,"
  273. # [09:41] <jungkees> annevk: is this fulfillment cb queued in task queue? or microtask queue?
  274. # [09:42] <annevk> jungkees: if you resolve a promise from asynchronous code it's callbacks will run in the next available microtask slot; so the latter
  275. # [09:42] <annevk> jungkees: it's the same really as whenever you'd resolve a promise from synchronous code
  276. # [09:43] <annevk> jungkees: however, if you change state on an object, such as a property, and announce that also through a promise, you need to queue a task to change state and resolve
  277. # [09:44] <jungkees> annevk: Okay
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  303. # [12:23] <jungkees> annevk: An asynchronously running steps in algorithm A declared a variable foo and queued a task (B) in a subsequent step; Does it make sense the queued task B set a value to A's foo?
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  316. # [13:44] <annevk> jungkees: so 1. Let /foo/ be X. 2. Queue a task to set /value/ to /foo/? That could make sense
  317. # [13:48] <jungkees> annevk: oh i see
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  319. # [13:49] <annevk> jungkees: unfortunately the best way to get knowledge of this stuff is to carefully study algorithms in HTML, XMLHttpRequest, Notifications, etc.
  320. # [13:50] <annevk> jungkees: while keeping in mind that none of those is perfect
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  322. # [13:52] <annevk> jungkees: I'll be away for three weeks or so, hopefully this is enough for now, otherwise I recommend asking Hixie or Domenic
  323. # [13:53] <jungkees> annevk: thanks for help
  324. # [13:53] <jungkees> annevk: going on a vacation?
  325. # [13:54] <jungkees> annevk: Enjoy your holidays and let's sync-up when you get back
  326. # [13:54] <jungkees> annevk: I think I'll refine the algorithms better till then though I'll may take a week off during the time
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  346. # [15:32] <annevk> jungkees: yes & sounds good
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  353. # [16:16] <wilhelm> "The RDF Working Group [1] is now closed."
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  355. # [16:21] * Ms2ger wonders if the CSSWG is still open
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  357. # [16:24] <wilhelm> Yes, they just got their charter renewed. :P
  358. # [16:35] <annevk> So we need to split request's context into two things
  359. # [16:35] <annevk> The first is more or less like context is now, the second will be the browsing context "type"
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  361. # [16:36] <annevk> contextSource == "hyperlink" && contextFrame == "top-level"
  362. # [16:36] <annevk> Anyone want to bikeshed, jgraham?
  363. # [16:37] <jgraham> Why are we bikeshedding me?
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  365. # [16:38] <jgraham> annevk: Well apart from the obvious fact that js needs an enum type, assuming that does what it sounds like it seems like a reasonable choice of names
  366. # [16:38] <jgraham> I don't have more context than that line though
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  368. # [16:39] <annevk> If you want more context (hah!) you could read https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/issues/352
  369. # [16:39] <annevk> Might be hard to introduce an enum type now IDL settled on strings
  370. # [16:40] <jgraham> Strings are pretty terrible :(
  371. # [16:41] <jgraham> I guess frame is somewhat misleading
  372. # [16:41] <jgraham> Could be contextType or something
  373. # [16:42] <jgraham> (because it doesn't tell you what actual frame you used, just what type of browsing context it was)
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  375. # [16:53] <annevk> context frame type
  376. # [16:53] <annevk> and just context I guess, you don't always need/use context frame type
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  390. # [17:20] <annevk> Hmm, need more contexts to complete the context alphabet
  391. # [17:25] <annevk> Oh my, even <embed> can create a nested browsing context!
  392. # [17:25] <annevk> SVG, WHYYYYYY
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  426. # [18:27] <annevk> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26247#c14
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  428. # [18:30] <jgraham> annevk: I guess I could read the spec, but if [i]frame and hyperlink are orthogonal it's not clear what happens with <iframe name=bar> and <a href="foo" target=bar>
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  480. # [20:52] <annevk> jgraham: they're not, the former would be setting their src attribute
  481. # [20:53] <annevk> for this to be defined in detail requires all end points to be in terms of fetch however
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  491. # [21:09] <cmr> Hixie: whatwg.org is down
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  523. # [22:43] <Hixie> cmr: there was some issue a couple of hours ago, yeah. seems resolved.
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  525. # [22:45] <cmr> Hixie: indeed it does, thanks
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The end :)