/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-07-07 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Mon Jul 07 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:02] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@host-2-99-38-198.as13285.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  4. # [00:07] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com)
  5. # [00:08] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  6. # [00:16] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  7. # [00:23] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  8. # [00:29] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  9. # [00:33] * Quits: espadrine_ (~ttyl@AMontsouris-158-1-64-251.w92-128.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  10. # [00:46] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@121-99-133-8.bng1.tvc.orcon.net.nz) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  11. # [00:57] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  12. # [00:58] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Client Quit)
  13. # [00:59] * Quits: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  14. # [01:04] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  15. # [01:08] * Quits: ManishCloud (uid36524@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hoqgkuzlkmpmlriq) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  16. # [01:14] * Quits: ehsan_ (~ehsan@24-212-207-29.cable.teksavvy.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
  17. # [01:20] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@2001:cb0:b202:232:2677:3ff:fece:dc64)
  18. # [01:27] * Joins: daurnimator (~daurnimat@unaffiliated/daurn)
  19. # [01:40] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  20. # [01:42] <daurnimator> I return, yet again lamenting the lack of some sort of GC callback in JS :(
  21. # [01:43] <SamB> daurnimator: for what?
  22. # [01:43] <daurnimator> SamB: interop/other languages running on top of JS
  23. # [01:44] <daurnimator> trying to know when js is done with some object/callback/etc
  24. # [01:44] <caitp> frankly, having a standard way to run specific code when an object is finalized is very useful, and we are all poorer for not having it
  25. # [01:44] <daurnimator> I'm now sitting here contemplating writing a js parser to analyse functions to decorate them as leaky or not
  26. # [01:46] <SamB> we could use it for useful things, like putting the object in a list of dead objects!
  27. # [01:46] <Hixie> SamB: or to force all browsers to have the same GC model and kill all innovation in that space!
  28. # [01:46] <daurnimator> SamB: e.g. I want to run lua in the browser: x=js.new(window.XHR);x:open("GET", "google.com", true); function x:onreadystatechange() print("I get leaked") end; x:send();
  29. # [01:47] <daurnimator> Hixie: having an 'oncollected' callback does not dictate the GC model
  30. # [01:47] <caitp> SamB: like closing file handles, for instance
  31. # [01:47] <SamB> caitp: I know what such things are used for in the real world, yes
  32. # [01:48] <caitp> just checking =]
  33. # [01:48] <SamB> but here on the web, our file handles aren't even open in the first place ;-)
  34. # [01:48] <Hixie> daurnimator: actually it does, because people will end up depending on in what order things get GCed
  35. # [01:48] <caitp> javascript doesn't strictly live on the web though
  36. # [01:48] <daurnimator> Hixie: why? they don't in other languages
  37. # [01:48] <caitp> all kinds of things use v8, from databases to web servers
  38. # [01:48] <caitp> rhino too
  39. # [01:49] * Quits: yoichio_ (yoichio@nat/google/x-wtlbfeyivaplzams) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  40. # [01:49] <SamB> daurnimator: outside of the web, the people who screw stuff up in the first place get most of the complaints
  41. # [01:49] <SamB> not the ones who changed what was meant as an implementation detail
  42. # [01:50] <SamB> or, well, outside of networking really
  43. # [01:50] <SamB> now *I* would think this was easily solved by having an unintelligable order in the first place, but evidently it isn't so
  44. # [01:52] <Hixie> daurnimator: the web is an oddly unusual case in that there's orders of magnitude more code, the code isn't maintained but is still compiled by newer compilers every time they come out, and the users are HIGHLY sensitive to breakage and change compilers on a whim so there's a lot of pressure to not break things
  45. # [01:53] <daurnimator> that sounds like a documentation issue, but to prevent people relying on *BROWSER'S* behaviour, just add (excuse the psuedo code): function gc_sweep() shuffle(this.marked_objects); this.marked_objects.forEach(function(o) if o.oncollect then o:oncollect() end free(o) end);
  46. # [01:54] <daurnimator> that is, if you're scared of people relying on order. randomise order
  47. # [01:54] <Hixie> that still exposes order
  48. # [01:55] <Hixie> it's not just per-cycle order that matters
  49. # [01:55] <Hixie> it's also which cycle
  50. # [01:55] <daurnimator> should make it unreliable enough that people don't rely on it?
  51. # [01:55] <Hixie> not if the list is one item long each time
  52. # [01:55] <daurnimator> Hixie: true.
  53. # [01:55] <Hixie> the problem is some browsers want to optimise for memory pressure, so they'll GC aggressively, and others want to optimise for speed, so they'll aggressively wait for idle cycles to do incremental GC
  54. # [01:55] <Hixie> and these two have _radically_ different behaviours
  55. # [01:56] <Hixie> behaviours that can't just be papered over
  56. # [01:56] <daurnimator> anyway, I'd really like to see some sort of oncollect callback. even if it's only on ES6 proxies for e.g.
  57. # [01:57] <Hixie> i wouldn't hold your breath :-)
  58. # [01:57] * daurnimator goes back to theorising a JS parser in JS and then writing a GC on top of JS
  59. # [01:57] <SamB> anyway, it turns out that releasing things like file handles only when something is GC'd naturally can have bad results sometimes ...
  60. # [01:58] <daurnimator> SamB: yep. 'sometimes'. in the (rare) cases it's not, you still have ob:close()
  61. # [01:58] <caitp> a GC on top of JS? lol
  62. # [01:59] <daurnimator> caitp: somefunc.toString() ==> parse ==> what happens to arg#2? ==> does it get assigned somewhere? ==> add it to 'leaked' list
  63. # [01:59] <caitp> SamB there's a distinction between "finalized" and "collected"
  64. # [01:59] <caitp> I think what he's really talking about is finalization
  65. # [01:59] <caitp> once there are no live references to an object, he'd probably want to close those file handles
  66. # [01:59] <SamB> so, maybe the real solution is to run finalizers after a random delay regardless
  67. # [02:00] <daurnimator> I'd also be happy with that solution
  68. # [02:00] <daurnimator> I just don't want to keep leaking via callbacks (e.g. setTimeout, xhr.onreadystatechange, etc)
  69. # [02:01] <daurnimator> makes writing long running web apps impossible
  70. # [02:01] <Hixie> why would you leak via callbacks?
  71. # [02:01] <daurnimator> Hixie: 23:43:25 < daurnimator> SamB: e.g. I want to run lua in the browser: x=js.new(window.XHR);x:open("GET", "google.com", true); function x:onreadystatechange() print("I get leaked") end; x:send();
  72. # [02:01] <daurnimator> the lua function gets a proxy constructed in JS
  73. # [02:01] <caitp> now it gets interesting :>
  74. # [02:02] <daurnimator> which is set as the onreadystatechange callback
  75. # [02:02] <Hixie> ok well step one, don't run lua...
  76. # [02:02] <SamB> what browser is this?
  77. # [02:02] <daurnimator> this is applicable to running anything on top of JS
  78. # [02:02] <daurnimator> SamB: all of them
  79. # [02:02] <SamB> most of my browsers don't offer to run lua
  80. # [02:02] <daurnimator> SamB: https://daurnimator.github.io/lua.vm.js/repl.html
  81. # [02:02] <Hixie> why would you run a language on top of JS
  82. # [02:02] <caitp> i expect you could probably build the lua runtime with emscripten, heh
  83. # [02:02] <caitp> guessing it's something like that
  84. # [02:03] <daurnimator> caitp: that one there is
  85. # [02:03] <SamB> ah, right, crazy
  86. # [02:03] <daurnimator> SamB: it works except for the fact it leaks proxys >.<
  87. # [02:03] <caitp> make kripken fix it!
  88. # [02:03] <daurnimator> caitp: I'm project owner now :P
  89. # [02:03] <caitp> furreal?
  90. # [02:03] <daurnimator> (of lua.vm.js, not emscripten)
  91. # [02:03] <caitp> oh I see
  92. # [02:04] <daurnimator> lua.vm.js was originally a kripken demo
  93. # [02:05] <daurnimator> BUT, thats just one example (thats easy for me to explain, as I'm close to it)
  94. # [02:05] <daurnimator> there's plenty of languages/frameworks/etc that live on top of js
  95. # [02:06] <SamB> (note that it is possible to do finalizers in such a way that the object being finalized is never actually revealed to the finalizer)
  96. # [02:06] <daurnimator> SamB: hmm?
  97. # [02:06] <SamB> well, I mean, the finalizer could certainly know "which one" it had been
  98. # [02:06] <SamB> but the object can be dead
  99. # [02:07] <daurnimator> which what?
  100. # [02:07] <SamB> but that's about finalizer interfaces, not about what you can do in JS now
  101. # [02:08] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Quit: :tiuQ tiuq sah woclrak)
  102. # [02:10] <roc> "that sounds like a documentation issue" hahahahahahaha. You must be new here :-)
  103. # [02:11] <SamB> yeah, indeed
  104. # [02:12] <daurnimator> roc: I didn't say documentation issues could be solved ;)
  105. # [02:12] <roc> depends on what you mean by solved
  106. # [02:12] <roc> documenting things is easy
  107. # [02:12] <daurnimator> if only
  108. # [02:12] <roc> getting people to *follow* the documentation, that's impossible.
  109. # [02:13] <daurnimator> if documentation was easy the world would be a nicer place
  110. # [02:13] <caitp> it's even more impossible when the documentation sucks
  111. # [02:13] <daurnimator> where (e.g.) undefined behaviour in C was obvious
  112. # [02:26] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  113. # [02:33] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  114. # [02:43] * Quits: kangil (~kangil@210.94.41.89) (Remote host closed the connection)
  115. # [02:47] * Joins: kangil (~kangil@210.94.41.89)
  116. # [03:02] <SamB> daurnimator: that's *not* just a documentation issue
  117. # [03:04] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  118. # [03:04] <SamB> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finalizer#Resource_management mentions that using finalizers to release resources isn't really all that wise, though that obviously doesn't really apply to trying to interface two GCs ...
  119. # [03:05] <SamB> more to the file thing
  120. # [03:07] <caitp> Sam that article is essentially saying "deallocating resources during a finalizer is unwise because finalizers might be implemented wrong"
  121. # [03:08] <caitp> that's kind of a silly argument
  122. # [03:09] <SamB> caitp: not really
  123. # [03:10] <SamB> finalizers *are* tied to garbage collection; using them to free resources besides garbage collected memory is very risky, because the next GC could come much later than you expect
  124. # [03:11] <SamB> especially with some browsers taking a more aggressive approach to GC than others
  125. # [03:11] <caitp> with browsers it's a bit complicated when C++ code holds references to JS objects, BUT at the end of the day, if there are no references to an object that "matter", the object is effectively dead whether it gets collected or not
  126. # [03:11] <caitp> and can therefore be considered to be finalized
  127. # [03:12] <SamB> um, what exactly is going to be crawling the heap to detect that they aren't referenced, if not the GC?
  128. # [03:13] <caitp> it could be the same algorithm which determines that an object needs to be garbage collected, that would be fine
  129. # [03:13] <caitp> it would just mark an object as finalized and inform the script context
  130. # [03:14] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  131. # [03:14] <caitp> and yeah, you could do that and prevent the object from reviving itself during finalization
  132. # [03:14] <caitp> we don't do that, but there's no real reason why we can't
  133. # [03:14] <caitp> it's just the way it is
  134. # [03:15] <SamB> I think there's a lot of Python code out there expecting immediate finalization, actually, because of CPython's reference-counting
  135. # [03:16] <gsnedders> That's definitely the case. Though CPython does have some slightly wacky behaviour with finalizers.
  136. # [03:17] <gsnedders> (Python 3 at least raises a warning if a file object's finalizer closes the file)
  137. # [03:17] <SamB> caitp: as I understand it, a dry run of most any GC algorithm won't take any less time, really
  138. # [03:17] <SamB> gsnedders: ah, cool
  139. # [03:17] <SamB> wonder why not in 2.7
  140. # [03:17] <gsnedders> Added to 3 after 2.7 shipped, I think
  141. # [03:17] <SamB> what, that's a "feature" or something?
  142. # [03:18] <gsnedders> Adding a warning where there wasn't one before? It's a behavioural change, it's not a bugfix.
  143. # [03:18] <SamB> but they should have added it back in 2.2
  144. # [03:18] <gsnedders> Did the warnings module exist back then?
  145. # [03:18] <gsnedders> ;P
  146. # [03:18] <caitp> SamB I don't think it would necessarily be a "dry run", just "notify the script before cleaning stuff up" --- there's no guarantee that once an object is marked for collection that it will be collected immediately anyways
  147. # [03:19] <SamB> gsnedders: that's beside the point; *Jython* existed back then and was considered to be Python!
  148. # [03:19] <caitp> but it doesn't matter, this was a design decision that a certain guy made zillions of years ago, too late to do anything about it
  149. # [03:19] <SamB> I thought the *unmarked* objects were the ones that got collected
  150. # [03:20] <gsnedders> SamB: Speaking of Jython, I ought deal with the html5lib PR that adds support for it
  151. # [03:20] <gsnedders> And yes, unmarked objects get collected
  152. # [03:20] <gsnedders> Typically
  153. # [03:20] <gsnedders> You can of course reverse the flags
  154. # [03:20] <caitp> there's no real difference
  155. # [03:20] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  156. # [03:20] <SamB> of course, which value of the flag counts as "marked" can be flipped from pass to pass
  157. # [03:20] <SamB> but the ones you visited and marked, those were reachable
  158. # [03:21] <SamB> so you want to keep them
  159. # [03:21] <caitp> it draws the same picture no matter how you phrase it, and the pictures of cycle collection algorithms are not things I want in my brain right now :d
  160. # [03:22] <gsnedders> bah, cycle collection algorithms are really simple in their simplest forms!
  161. # [03:22] <SamB> oh, you're going back to Python territory
  162. # [03:22] <SamB> most things don't have cycle collectors, they have *garbage* collectors
  163. # [03:23] <SamB> which sometimes actually work by collecting the non-garbage and declaring whatever is left behind nonexistant
  164. # [03:23] <gsnedders> SamB: they're the same, just a "cycle" collector will never collect anything except things that have cycles because they've already been freed through refcounting
  165. # [03:23] <SamB> (obviously if there are finalizer-bearing objects involved it has to do something about those, though)
  166. # [03:24] <SamB> gsnedders: well, if someone says "cycle collector" it brings to mind that same "normal stuff gets freed immediately, right?" assumption from crufty Python code
  167. # [03:24] <gsnedders> right
  168. # [03:26] <SamB> hmm, this is the wrong kind of cycle collection: http://www.cyclemuseum.org.uk/
  169. # [03:26] <gsnedders> hah
  170. # [03:26] <gsnedders> (interesting, pulling the power cord out of this makes it suspend, hmmm)
  171. # [03:29] <SamB> this doesn't sound much like a normal GC algorithm: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Interfacing_with_the_XPCOM_cycle_collector
  172. # [03:29] <gsnedders> you're touching XPCOM, anything "normal" is far away
  173. # [03:29] <SamB> it looks more like the kind of algorithm I'd expect with a name like "cycle collection" though
  174. # [03:30] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  175. # [03:30] <caitp> kyle huey gave a good talk about it, probably quite a few of them, it's not really unreasonable
  176. # [03:31] <SamB> the way it decides to even start looking for a cycle at any given object certainly sounds sensible (as a first impression, anyway)
  177. # [03:35] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  178. # [03:37] <roc> our approach to refcounting + cycle collection has actually turned out to be pretty good
  179. # [03:38] <roc> it has a lot of advantages over traditional tracing GC
  180. # [03:38] <SamB> roc: well, it's probably Hixie's worst nightmare to expose anything like it to JS
  181. # [03:38] <roc> of course we're not going to do that
  182. # [03:38] <SamB> yeah
  183. # [03:38] <SamB> just sayin!
  184. # [03:39] <roc> the main problem with refcounting+CC is that the performance of refcounting objects that are strongly referenced from multiple threads is terrible
  185. # [03:39] <SamB> yeah
  186. # [03:39] <roc> fortunately, that is very rare in a Web browsers.
  187. # [03:40] <SamB> certainly not from the PoV of content
  188. # [03:40] <roc> OTOH pretty much all academic GC research assumes that it's common. Which is why GC researchers have not explored the space that we have.
  189. # [03:42] <SamB> it sounds like what the XPCOM cycle collector requires of objects is very similar to what the CPython cycle collector requires
  190. # [03:42] <roc> hopefully one of the C++ reflection proposals will let us generate the tracing hooks automatically, without the nasty boilerplate code we currently have
  191. # [03:42] <SamB> oh, except suspicion is automatic in CPython
  192. # [03:43] <SamB> hmm, I guess you can't just use that Python plugin for GCC, can you, since you build with cl.exe on Windows
  193. # [03:44] <roc> yes
  194. # [03:44] <roc> we're working on supporting clang-cl on Windows but I suspect it will be a long time, if ever, before we can ship clang-cl builds
  195. # [03:45] <SamB> the idea being to use it to write the boilerplate to a text file, mind you, not to inject it into GCC directly
  196. # [03:45] <SamB> it sounds like the Python plugin is still read-only
  197. # [04:01] <Hixie> wow, academic GC research assumes cross-thread references?
  198. # [04:01] <Hixie> i wouldn't have guessed that
  199. # [04:01] <Hixie> i always kinda assumed that keeping cross-thread references to a minimum was basically a given
  200. # [04:02] <SamB> well, some research involves actual multithreaded programs, not just multiplexings of single-threaded programs
  201. # [04:02] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com)
  202. # [04:03] <roc> Hixie: the majority is done in the context of Java
  203. # [04:03] <Hixie> ah
  204. # [04:04] <roc> Hixie: the issue isn't so much that there are lots of actual cross-thread references, but that every class is potentially referencable across threads
  205. # [04:04] <roc> so you have to make your refcount operations thread-safe
  206. # [04:04] <Hixie> fair enough
  207. # [04:04] <Hixie> that's got to be a hell of an overhead
  208. # [04:04] <roc> or do very clever optimizations to avoid that
  209. # [04:04] <roc> they don't use reference-counting. That's why.
  210. # [04:05] <roc> whereas in the browser we know statically that most classes cannot be referenced across threads so it's trivial to avoid atomic refcount ops.
  211. # [04:05] <SamB> well, that's *one* reason anyway
  212. # [04:05] <Hixie> roc: ah
  213. # [04:07] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  214. # [04:37] * Quits: seventh (seventh@207-207-17-53.fwd.datafoundry.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  215. # [04:39] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Quit: :tiuQ tiuq sah woclrak)
  216. # [04:39] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  217. # [04:43] <SamB> whoa: <http://researcher.watson.ibm.com/researcher/view_group.php?id=3385> seems to have been used in jikes despite being based on reference counting ...
  218. # [04:46] <roc> Jikes supports lots of GC algorithms. It's commonly used as a GC research testbed.
  219. # [04:47] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-254.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  220. # [04:47] <SamB> oh
  221. # [04:48] <SamB> so it's like "We modified GCC to do this or that"
  222. # [04:48] <roc> right
  223. # [04:56] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-pdp.pool-180-180.dynamic.totbb.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  224. # [04:56] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com)
  225. # [05:01] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  226. # [05:07] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@209.201.113.2)
  227. # [05:09] * Quits: CvP (~CvP@27.147.199.131) (Disconnected by services)
  228. # [05:09] * Joins: xCG (~CvP@27.147.199.131)
  229. # [05:10] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-pdp.pool-180-180.dynamic.totbb.net)
  230. # [05:10] * xCG is now known as CvP
  231. # [05:32] * Quits: montecfel (~montecfel@gateway/tor-sasl/montecfel) (Quit: montecfel)
  232. # [05:34] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@98.210.101.88)
  233. # [05:35] * Quits: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@209.201.113.2) (Remote host closed the connection)
  234. # [05:37] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@209.201.113.2)
  235. # [05:39] * Joins: seventh (seventh@185.29.164.123)
  236. # [05:42] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@98.210.101.88) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  237. # [05:50] * Quits: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@209.201.113.2) (Remote host closed the connection)
  238. # [05:50] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@209.201.113.2)
  239. # [05:51] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com)
  240. # [05:56] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  241. # [06:03] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  242. # [06:04] <TabAtkins> MikeSmith: Re U+000C, mind raising that in www-style? It's probably possible to converge.
  243. # [06:06] <TabAtkins> Oh, never mind, I see you got your question answered. I didn't remember that u+000c was preprocessed away.
  244. # [06:09] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@98.210.101.88)
  245. # [06:18] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  246. # [06:36] <TabAtkins> Hixie, jgraham: Re: cells in a given column, we've got stuff in Selectors for that now. (Unimplemented.)
  247. # [06:44] * Joins: arpitab__ (uid10516@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aparwnsnpmjadoqq)
  248. # [06:45] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com)
  249. # [06:50] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  250. # [06:56] * Quits: yoav (~yoav@sdo26-1-78-245-148-181.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  251. # [06:57] * Quits: crankharder (~crankhard@c-73-191-6-206.hsd1.va.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  252. # [07:02] * Quits: kochi1 (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1000:98d0:6536:fc6c:3006) (Quit: Leaving.)
  253. # [07:02] * Quits: kochi (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1000:98d0:6536:fc6c:3006) (Quit: Leaving.)
  254. # [07:05] * Joins: kochi (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1000:d430:115:46f:aff7)
  255. # [07:05] * Joins: kochi1 (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1000:d430:115:46f:aff7)
  256. # [07:06] <SamB> TabAtkins: WANT IT!
  257. # [07:16] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@98.210.101.88) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  258. # [07:18] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-254.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  259. # [07:19] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  260. # [07:20] * Quits: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@209.201.113.2) (Remote host closed the connection)
  261. # [07:21] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@185.3.135.114)
  262. # [07:29] * Quits: seventh (seventh@185.29.164.123) (Remote host closed the connection)
  263. # [07:31] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@103.249.181.147)
  264. # [07:33] * Joins: mven_ (~textual@ip68-104-38-84.lv.lv.cox.net)
  265. # [07:34] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-pdp.pool-180-180.dynamic.totbb.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  266. # [07:39] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com)
  267. # [07:41] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-s7x.pool-180-180.dynamic.totbb.net)
  268. # [07:43] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  269. # [07:45] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  270. # [07:51] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  271. # [07:56] * Quits: yutak (~yutak@2401:fa00:4:1000:28b3:623c:a6fd:ab60) (Remote host closed the connection)
  272. # [07:57] * Joins: yutak (~yutak@2401:fa00:4:1000:8d6a:e506:3ab7:ba47)
  273. # [08:00] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  274. # [08:11] * Joins: jungkees (uid24208@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-acjbeefgxwteghtz)
  275. # [08:14] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  276. # [08:18] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@2001:cb0:b202:232:2677:3ff:fece:dc64) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  277. # [08:19] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  278. # [08:31] <MikeSmith> TabAtkins: you saw my bug about making eof in comments a parse error?
  279. # [08:31] <TabAtkins> You saw my response to that bug?
  280. # [08:32] <MikeSmith> TabAtkins: ah no, not yet, just got back online now
  281. # [08:32] * MikeSmith looks
  282. # [08:32] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@m950536d0.tmodns.net)
  283. # [08:33] <MikeSmith> rock and roll
  284. # [08:33] <TabAtkins> D'oh, I didn't mark it RESOLVED.
  285. # [08:33] <MikeSmith> TabAtkins: thanks man
  286. # [08:33] <TabAtkins> Link me?
  287. # [08:34] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com)
  288. # [08:34] <MikeSmith> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26270
  289. # [08:38] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  290. # [08:41] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@121-99-133-8.bng1.tvc.orcon.net.nz)
  291. # [08:41] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@m950536d0.tmodns.net) (Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi)
  292. # [08:53] * Quits: Goplat (~goplat@reactos/developer/Goplat) (Remote host closed the connection)
  293. # [08:54] <MikeSmith> TabAtkins: btw https://github.com/validator/syntax/blob/master/relaxng/datatype/java/src/org/whattf/datatype/tools/CssParser.java#L36
  294. # [08:55] <MikeSmith> TabAtkins: uses Rhino to expose your CSS parser/tokenizer to Java
  295. # [09:01] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@m950536d0.tmodns.net)
  296. # [09:03] * Joins: markkes (~markkes@62.207.90.201)
  297. # [09:07] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@m950536d0.tmodns.net) (Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi)
  298. # [09:15] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-254.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  299. # [09:15] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-254.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Client Quit)
  300. # [09:16] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-254.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  301. # [09:26] * Quits: daurnimator (~daurnimat@unaffiliated/daurn) (Quit: Lost terminal)
  302. # [09:28] * Quits: kochi1 (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1000:d430:115:46f:aff7) (Quit: Leaving.)
  303. # [09:28] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com)
  304. # [09:29] * Joins: kochi1 (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1000:d430:115:46f:aff7)
  305. # [09:32] * Quits: kochi1 (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1000:d430:115:46f:aff7) (Client Quit)
  306. # [09:33] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  307. # [09:33] * Joins: kochi1 (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1000:d430:115:46f:aff7)
  308. # [09:33] * Quits: benjamingr (uid23465@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-umodhkpvcvinbpdt) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  309. # [09:36] * Quits: kochi1 (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1000:d430:115:46f:aff7) (Client Quit)
  310. # [09:37] * Joins: kochi1 (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1000:d430:115:46f:aff7)
  311. # [09:37] * Quits: kochi1 (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1000:d430:115:46f:aff7) (Client Quit)
  312. # [09:37] * Joins: daurnimator (~daurnimat@unaffiliated/daurn)
  313. # [09:38] * Joins: kochi1 (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1000:d430:115:46f:aff7)
  314. # [09:38] * Quits: kochi1 (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1000:d430:115:46f:aff7) (Client Quit)
  315. # [09:39] * Joins: kochi1 (~kochi@2401:fa00:4:1000:d430:115:46f:aff7)
  316. # [09:40] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@103.249.181.147) (Quit: BigBangUDR)
  317. # [09:40] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@103.249.181.147)
  318. # [09:46] <mathiasbynens> zcorpan (assuming you’re reading the logs): the blog post was updated when the removal was moved to M37 https://github.com/operasoftware/devopera/commit/beb0d174be24588bb9f39fc5cc301f9d081e6395 afaik this is still the current plan
  319. # [09:53] * Joins: Jirka (~Jirka@95.85.233.233)
  320. # [10:07] * Joins: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123)
  321. # [10:13] * Joins: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron)
  322. # [10:15] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74)
  323. # [10:15] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@103.249.181.147) (Quit: BigBangUDR)
  324. # [10:18] * Joins: sankha93 (uid12218@fsf/emeritus/sankha93)
  325. # [10:22] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com)
  326. # [10:27] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  327. # [10:40] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  328. # [10:41] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Remote host closed the connection)
  329. # [10:41] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  330. # [10:48] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@98.196-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
  331. # [10:49] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  332. # [10:53] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  333. # [10:57] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Quit: :tiuQ tiuq sah woclrak)
  334. # [10:57] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  335. # [10:58] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  336. # [11:00] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  337. # [11:03] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@103.249.181.147)
  338. # [11:05] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  339. # [11:07] <Ms2ger> "When using letter-spacing != 0, disable ligatures through font-feature-settings."
  340. # [11:07] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  341. # [11:07] <Ms2ger> Who doesn't do that automatically?
  342. # [11:09] * Joins: richt_ (~richt@83.218.67.123)
  343. # [11:09] * Quits: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  344. # [11:11] * Quits: Lachy_ (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  345. # [11:11] * Joins: izhak (~izhak@92.248.142.152)
  346. # [11:17] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com)
  347. # [11:19] * Joins: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123)
  348. # [11:22] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  349. # [11:22] * Quits: richt_ (~richt@83.218.67.123) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  350. # [11:25] * Joins: wartdev (~wartdev@109.255.148.96)
  351. # [11:26] * Joins: Ducki_ (~Ducki@191.233.66.1)
  352. # [11:29] * Quits: Ducki (~Ducki@191.233.66.1) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  353. # [11:31] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@213.166.174.2)
  354. # [11:33] * yutak is now known as yutak_away
  355. # [11:37] * Joins: richt_ (~richt@83.218.67.123)
  356. # [11:37] * Quits: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  357. # [11:42] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@bl17-208-83.dsl.telepac.pt)
  358. # [11:42] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@bl17-208-83.dsl.telepac.pt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  359. # [11:42] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@bl17-208-83.dsl.telepac.pt)
  360. # [11:52] * Joins: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123)
  361. # [11:52] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@212.42.170.121)
  362. # [11:54] * Quits: Jirka (~Jirka@95.85.233.233) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  363. # [11:54] * Quits: richt_ (~richt@83.218.67.123) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  364. # [11:58] * Quits: wartdev (~wartdev@109.255.148.96) (Remote host closed the connection)
  365. # [12:02] * Joins: richt_ (~richt@83.218.67.123)
  366. # [12:05] * Quits: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  367. # [12:09] * Joins: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123)
  368. # [12:09] * Quits: richt_ (~richt@83.218.67.123) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  369. # [12:11] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com)
  370. # [12:16] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  371. # [12:17] * Joins: wartdev (~wartdev@109.255.148.96)
  372. # [12:24] * Quits: jahman (~woops@129.175.204.73) (Remote host closed the connection)
  373. # [12:25] * Joins: jahman (~woops@129.175.204.73)
  374. # [12:39] * Quits: CvP (~CvP@27.147.199.131) (Disconnected by services)
  375. # [12:39] * Joins: xCG (~CvP@27.147.199.131)
  376. # [12:40] * xCG is now known as CvP
  377. # [12:51] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  378. # [12:52] * Joins: richt_ (~richt@83.218.67.123)
  379. # [12:52] * Quits: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  380. # [12:52] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Client Quit)
  381. # [13:00] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com)
  382. # [13:03] * Joins: benjamingr (uid23465@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gorpltjxiowhruaa)
  383. # [13:04] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@103.249.181.147) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  384. # [13:04] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  385. # [13:09] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  386. # [13:10] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-s7x.pool-180-180.dynamic.totbb.net) (Quit: จรลี จรลา)
  387. # [13:13] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  388. # [13:14] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-s7x.pool-180-180.dynamic.totbb.net)
  389. # [13:23] * Joins: ^esc (~esc-ape@178.115.130.4.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
  390. # [13:47] * Quits: wartdev (~wartdev@109.255.148.96) (Remote host closed the connection)
  391. # [13:56] * Joins: tommyliu (~technommy@61.144.248.40)
  392. # [14:02] * tommyliu is now known as tommy_
  393. # [14:03] * tommy_ is now known as Guest11582
  394. # [14:03] * Quits: richt_ (~richt@83.218.67.123) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  395. # [14:03] * Joins: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123)
  396. # [14:07] * Joins: richt_ (~richt@83.218.67.123)
  397. # [14:07] * Quits: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  398. # [14:09] * Guest11582 is now known as technommy
  399. # [14:12] * Joins: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  400. # [14:14] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  401. # [14:18] * Joins: wartdev (~wartdev@109.255.148.96)
  402. # [14:18] <Ms2ger> For our friends at w3cmemes: https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/21801c47ccff06fa5e6612aea5b87095/tumblr_mlqdctiGeH1rvsbh9o1_500.jpg
  403. # [14:19] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  404. # [14:21] * Joins: hemanth_ (~hemanth@122.167.108.138)
  405. # [14:22] * Joins: tj_vantoll (~Adium@2601:4:5380:2ec:752e:917a:32c1:71af)
  406. # [14:23] * Quits: wartdev (~wartdev@109.255.148.96) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  407. # [14:23] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: great photo of timeless there
  408. # [14:23] * Quits: technommy (~technommy@61.144.248.40) (Remote host closed the connection)
  409. # [14:24] * Joins: technommy (~technommy@61.144.248.40)
  410. # [14:25] * Joins: ManishCloud (uid36524@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lvpnfaaobpirgzux)
  411. # [14:25] <ManishCloud> Hixie: around?
  412. # [14:25] <ManishCloud> Where, besides XHR, is the Fetch spec used for a browser?
  413. # [14:26] <ManishCloud> It seems like HTML5 has its own fetch spec, which is rather different: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/fetching-resources.html
  414. # [14:26] <Ms2ger> Awaiting integration :)
  415. # [14:27] * Quits: Martijnc (~Martijn@is-aweso.me) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  416. # [14:28] <ManishCloud> Ms2ger: O.o
  417. # [14:29] <ManishCloud> Not seriously?
  418. # [14:29] * Quits: technommy (~technommy@61.144.248.40) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  419. # [14:29] <Ms2ger> http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/FileAPI/ seems to reference Fetch
  420. # [14:29] <Ms2ger> HTML will move to referencing Fetch at some point when Hixie has time
  421. # [14:30] <ManishCloud> ah
  422. # [14:30] * Joins: Martijnc (~Martijn@is-aweso.me)
  423. # [14:30] <ManishCloud> 'cause annvk had mentioned that <img> and all use Fetch, but I couldn't find any references
  424. # [14:31] * Quits: sspi (uid34681@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lxohlnaplepuhfkx) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  425. # [14:31] * Quits: abarth (sid5294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qfnrzttwxjfywyim) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  426. # [14:31] * Quits: JakeA (uid3836@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lkelxnololquqvgx) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  427. # [14:31] * Quits: kcherkashin____ (sid25169@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qcuzdgvikaaspjgo) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  428. # [14:31] * Quits: JonathanNeal (sid5831@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oyubioywtbibfbdn) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  429. # [14:31] * Quits: krit (sid15081@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wdkvxvioezfxnbco) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  430. # [14:31] * Quits: sangwhan (sid12645@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nsrwbawuksgklgsi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  431. # [14:32] * Joins: abarth (sid5294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  432. # [14:32] * Quits: jungkees (uid24208@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-acjbeefgxwteghtz) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  433. # [14:32] * Quits: scheib_ (sid4467@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hvmntycuuupkotlx) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  434. # [14:32] * Quits: scottjehl_____ (sid3055@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gfjhsalhurdpmysr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  435. # [14:32] * Quits: tobie (sid5692@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-srndogvezdqxeivm) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  436. # [14:32] * Quits: birtles (sid16523@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mjscqrqdkeaavyqo) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  437. # [14:32] * Quits: cwilso (sid10206@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ociuwnwxinuadeae) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  438. # [14:33] * Quits: sgalineau (sid26595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fkyczxembqllmvoo) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  439. # [14:33] * Quits: jkomoros__ (uid7860@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ggudptktsfsoeyxs) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  440. # [14:33] <ManishCloud> Ms2ger: will that mean major changes to Fetch, or just the addition of a couple of flags here and there
  441. # [14:33] <ManishCloud> ?
  442. # [14:33] * Quits: phuu (sid7721@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qcxhmgpvhuepnpbe) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  443. # [14:33] * Quits: remysharp (sid4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mdyuolfoeltsjzen) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  444. # [14:33] * Quits: wanderview (sid22777@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-khoqjrkwslfdbdwx) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  445. # [14:33] * Quits: slightlyoff (sid1768@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-azbwflungnwnfnks) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  446. # [14:33] * Quits: Domenic (sid10976@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qlblbfhekibflpui) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  447. # [14:33] * Quits: mathiasbynens (sid2247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oykkifciqljvsdlb) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  448. # [14:33] * Quits: hdv (sid2376@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-flrqwqrcxgochzhk) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  449. # [14:33] * Quits: dfreedm (sid7859@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ywclsrsuxfwnwnid) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  450. # [14:33] <jgraham_>
  451. # [14:33] <Ms2ger> I hope not too major
  452. # [14:33] <Ms2ger> Hi jgraham_
  453. # [14:33] * Joins: tbsaunde_ (~tbsaunde@people1.scl3.mozilla.com)
  454. # [14:33] * Joins: sspi (uid34681@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  455. # [14:33] * Joins: JonathanNeal (sid5831@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  456. # [14:34] * Joins: JakeA_ (uid3836@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  457. # [14:34] * Joins: sangwhan_ (sid12645@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  458. # [14:34] * Joins: krit (sid15081@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  459. # [14:34] <ManishCloud> jgraham_: you seem to have protected yourself from lint
  460. # [14:34] * Joins: remysharp (sid4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  461. # [14:34] * Quits: SamB (~SamB@2001:470:1f07:57:dcbd:c7c3:722f:4a87) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  462. # [14:34] * Joins: hdv (sid2376@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  463. # [14:34] * Joins: Domenic (sid10976@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  464. # [14:34] * Joins: jungkees (uid24208@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  465. # [14:34] * Joins: jkomoros___ (uid7860@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  466. # [14:34] * Joins: cwilso (sid10206@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  467. # [14:34] * Joins: dfreedm (sid7859@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  468. # [14:34] * Joins: scheib_ (sid4467@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  469. # [14:34] * Joins: wanderview_ (sid22777@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  470. # [14:34] * Joins: scottjehl_____ (sid3055@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  471. # [14:34] * Joins: birtles_ (sid16523@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  472. # [14:34] * Joins: sgalineau (sid26595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  473. # [14:34] * Joins: tobie_ (sid5692@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  474. # [14:34] * Joins: slightlyoff (sid1768@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  475. # [14:34] * Quits: Krinkle|detached (~Krinkle@wikimedia/Krinkle) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  476. # [14:34] * Quits: tbsaunde (~tbsaunde@people1.scl3.mozilla.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  477. # [14:34] * Joins: phuu (sid7721@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  478. # [14:34] * Quits: abarth (sid5294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  479. # [14:34] * Joins: abarth (sid5294@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sxecudojnghqfcoy)
  480. # [14:34] * Joins: kcherkashin____ (sid25169@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session)
  481. # [14:34] <jgraham_> Turns out that facebook guest wifi sucks
  482. # [14:34] * Quits: remysharp (sid4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  483. # [14:34] * Joins: remysharp (sid4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-avgknynuvxrtetym)
  484. # [14:34] * Quits: sspi (uid34681@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  485. # [14:34] * Joins: sspi (uid34681@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-azzdzgvkoctjeomh)
  486. # [14:34] * Quits: JonathanNeal (sid5831@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  487. # [14:34] * Joins: JonathanNeal (sid5831@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wbwfgbrvvoaotqza)
  488. # [14:34] * Quits: JakeA_ (uid3836@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  489. # [14:34] * Joins: JakeA_ (uid3836@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fzlljrmcjmvkhxqf)
  490. # [14:34] * Quits: sangwhan_ (sid12645@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  491. # [14:34] * Joins: sangwhan_ (sid12645@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nepgwpsqzoblsaek)
  492. # [14:34] * Quits: krit (sid15081@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  493. # [14:34] * Joins: krit (sid15081@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-segexvzcgcowercj)
  494. # [14:34] * jgraham_ is now known as jgraham
  495. # [14:34] * Quits: hdv (sid2376@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  496. # [14:34] * Joins: hdv (sid2376@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-softzaebxjfkspvt)
  497. # [14:34] * Quits: slightlyoff (sid1768@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  498. # [14:34] * Joins: slightlyoff (sid1768@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ydvsgaojivagxvmn)
  499. # [14:34] * Quits: Domenic (sid10976@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  500. # [14:34] * Joins: Domenic (sid10976@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gqgeorftftshnuij)
  501. # [14:34] * Quits: tobie_ (sid5692@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  502. # [14:34] * Joins: tobie_ (sid5692@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iuuiybbquvdrmplk)
  503. # [14:34] * Quits: jungkees (uid24208@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  504. # [14:34] * Joins: jungkees (uid24208@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ltahmikvkqimafie)
  505. # [14:34] * Quits: cwilso (sid10206@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  506. # [14:34] * Joins: cwilso (sid10206@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-otepxuuzdtbqsoiv)
  507. # [14:34] * Quits: jkomoros___ (uid7860@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  508. # [14:34] * Joins: jkomoros___ (uid7860@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zezgwotwjhjclaqo)
  509. # [14:34] * Quits: birtles_ (sid16523@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  510. # [14:34] * Joins: birtles_ (sid16523@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ojxbhidvaatizorp)
  511. # [14:34] * Quits: scheib_ (sid4467@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  512. # [14:34] * Joins: scheib_ (sid4467@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sgqtoynnygrorjah)
  513. # [14:34] * Quits: dfreedm (sid7859@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  514. # [14:34] * Joins: dfreedm (sid7859@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lhxvxxgmrabeogih)
  515. # [14:34] * Quits: wanderview_ (sid22777@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  516. # [14:34] * Joins: wanderview_ (sid22777@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eirzxptsddgendyb)
  517. # [14:34] * Quits: scottjehl_____ (sid3055@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  518. # [14:34] * Joins: scottjehl_____ (sid3055@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hvjeldxqgfvwjtzw)
  519. # [14:34] * Quits: sgalineau (sid26595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  520. # [14:34] * Joins: sgalineau (sid26595@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ihpuriigwbwhjrqg)
  521. # [14:34] * Quits: kcherkashin____ (sid25169@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  522. # [14:34] * Joins: kcherkashin____ (sid25169@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-czvbdvzogjjbzvhn)
  523. # [14:34] * Quits: phuu (sid7721@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session) (Changing host)
  524. # [14:34] * Joins: phuu (sid7721@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ivcdejcxpizyfwtr)
  525. # [14:34] * Joins: mathiasbynens (sid2247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pcifgmwutcgdbuua)
  526. # [14:35] * Joins: SamB (~SamB@2001:470:1f07:57:a873:82b1:658:cc91)
  527. # [14:36] * Joins: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123)
  528. # [14:36] * Quits: richt_ (~richt@83.218.67.123) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  529. # [14:37] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-254.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  530. # [14:37] * Quits: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  531. # [14:37] * Joins: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123)
  532. # [14:39] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: what do the new additions of the galimatias jar and TabAtkins's tokenizer.js and parser.js do?
  533. # [14:39] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: in the validator, that is
  534. # [14:40] * Quits: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  535. # [14:40] * Joins: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123)
  536. # [14:42] * Joins: Guest77888 (~Krinkle@ec2-50-112-50-28.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com)
  537. # [14:42] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  538. # [14:42] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  539. # [14:42] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: ah. so galimatias is a new URL parsing lib
  540. # [14:43] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: there's something wrong with the build script, though. It's not getting picked up by javac
  541. # [14:44] * Joins: richt_ (~richt@83.218.67.123)
  542. # [14:44] * Quits: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  543. # [14:44] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: the latest galimatias release addes UTS 46 to bring it into conformance with the current URL spec. It just uses ICU4J
  544. # [14:46] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: as far as TabAtkins's tokenizer.js and parser.js, I'm using them for @sizes checking via a bridge through Rhino
  545. # [14:47] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: I think we could eventually replace the current MediaQuery datatype checker -- which isn't conformant with the latest CSS specs -- with a new one written using TabAtkins's tokenizer
  546. # [14:48] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: but I'm not doing that yet. Right now, I'm only using it as an extra step to catch any outright syntax errors, before it then goes to the existing MediaQuery datatype checker
  547. # [14:48] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  548. # [14:49] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: if the build script is failing it may be I broke something very recently. I'll do a fresh checkout and see myself too
  549. # [14:50] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: bridge through Rhino... wow. there must be a you dawg joke in there somewhere. :-)
  550. # [14:50] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: I just pushed a build.py update for the dl URL for jsontool-core, FWIW
  551. # [14:50] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: as far as galimatias I only have it being used now for Iri and IriRef datatype checking, and DataURI checking -- but we could eventually use it to replace the other cases where we're using Jena
  552. # [14:51] <MikeSmith> ok
  553. # [14:51] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: I see
  554. # [14:51] <hsivonen> I'm pretty sure there's just a classpath problem with how build.py invokes javac
  555. # [14:53] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: at least the version of galimatas in classpath doesn't match the version on disk
  556. # [14:54] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: yeah I wasn't sure the Rhino bridge thing would have acceptable performance but it seems to be just fine. It all gets compiled just once -- static. And I guess that may costs some couple hundred milliseconds the first time, but then after that it's negligible -- a few milliseconds at most maybe
  557. # [14:54] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: OK will check right now
  558. # [14:54] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: cool
  559. # [14:54] <hsivonen> OK. I fixed this locally. I'll push.
  560. # [14:54] <MikeSmith> ok
  561. # [14:55] * MikeSmith is curious to see what he was doing wrong
  562. # [14:55] <darobin> MikeSmith: I think it was that last drink Saturday night
  563. # [14:56] <MikeSmith> darobin: either that or the part where I fell off the hotel balcony
  564. # [14:56] <darobin> that would cause problems with the validator for sure
  565. # [14:58] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: https://github.com/validator/build/commit/6f429116af4820f96223de8eb60e3df653b9f567
  566. # [14:58] <MikeSmith> jgraham: I bet it still doesn't suck as bad as Mozilla SF guest wifi
  567. # [14:59] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: ah yeah. sorry :( that's the 2nd time I maade that same mistake (I did it the previous time galimatias got updated)
  568. # [15:01] <jgraham> MikeSmith: I think you were unlucky, although I might be wrong
  569. # [15:01] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: btw I don't know what we're using jsontools for. I trust it is still actually being used somewhere
  570. # [15:01] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: used for HTML tokenizer unit tests
  571. # [15:01] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: ah OK
  572. # [15:03] <hsivonen> looks like I need to teach my deployment script about galimatias
  573. # [15:10] * Joins: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123)
  574. # [15:10] * Quits: richt_ (~richt@83.218.67.123) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  575. # [15:10] * Quits: jungkees (uid24208@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ltahmikvkqimafie) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  576. # [15:13] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
  577. # [15:15] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  578. # [15:15] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  579. # [15:20] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  580. # [15:20] * Quits: hemanth_ (~hemanth@122.167.108.138) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  581. # [15:20] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  582. # [15:20] * smaug____ wonders if keygen could be killed
  583. # [15:20] * Quits: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  584. # [15:20] * Joins: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123)
  585. # [15:21] * Joins: TallTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  586. # [15:23] <MikeSmith> smaug____: it can't (not last I heard at least). I think Apple was one of those saying they're aware of known sites it would be break that aren't likely to change to quit using it
  587. # [15:23] <MikeSmith> smaug____: I guess it remains an evangelism issue (as far as possibility of killing it)
  588. # [15:23] <smaug____> MikeSmith: do you recall when apple said that?
  589. # [15:24] <MikeSmith> smaug____: I could try to find it. It's been a few years. I think it was on the public-html list
  590. # [15:25] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: I did a fresh checkout and build (with your build.py changes) and it all runs fine
  591. # [15:26] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com)
  592. # [15:26] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: though I see that the galimatias change does cause the TestRunner build to fail. But that's not fatal. Anyway, I'll try to fix that too right now
  593. # [15:26] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-s7x.pool-180-180.dynamic.totbb.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  594. # [15:28] * Joins: Ualidus (~root@LMontsouris-152-62-14-199.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  595. # [15:28] <Ualidus> hello
  596. # [15:29] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-s7x.pool-180-180.dynamic.totbb.net)
  597. # [15:29] * Joins: jensnockert_ (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com)
  598. # [15:29] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: hmm no I see that's not a build issue but instead seems to be a runtime problem that the TestRunner is exposing
  599. # [15:30] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: quit trolling over on #w3c ("Can anyone recommend a good guide for making my website xhtml 2.0 compliant?")
  600. # [15:30] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  601. # [15:30] <Ualidus> I have a question, I don't understand the part of the warning about the InvalidAccessError : http://xhr.spec.whatwg.org/#the-open%28%29-method
  602. # [15:31] <Ualidus> I think I have this error occuring, but I'm not quite sure...
  603. # [15:31] <Ualidus> and I don't know how to fix it
  604. # [15:36] <Ualidus> according to the steps of the open method, the error should be thrown before the request is sent (I suppose), but it seems my script is used anyway... I'm completely lost. :)
  605. # [15:37] * Quits: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123) (Remote host closed the connection)
  606. # [15:38] * Joins: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123)
  607. # [15:39] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: so the deployment script I have actually does upload galimatias to the server
  608. # [15:39] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: but it fails for some other reason...
  609. # [15:39] <hsivonen> It doesn't find the main class
  610. # [15:39] <hsivonen> I'm trying to see if there's a problem with the command line
  611. # [15:42] * Quits: globbot (~logbot@lump.glob.com.au) (Remote host closed the connection)
  612. # [15:42] * Quits: jensnockert_ (~jensnocke@h51n3-kba-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  613. # [15:43] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: OK
  614. # [15:43] * Joins: globbot (~logbot@lump.glob.com.au)
  615. # [15:43] * hsivonen sees -Dnu.validator.servlet.follow-w3c-spec=0
  616. # [15:43] * Quits: richt (~richt@83.218.67.123) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  617. # [15:43] * hsivonen doesn't recall noticing that before
  618. # [15:44] <hsivonen> the error I get is Error: Could not find or load main class results
  619. # [15:44] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: yeah a while back I separated out the w3c "branding" behavior from the w3c-specific schema behavior
  620. # [15:45] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: a class literally named "results"?
  621. # [15:46] <Ms2ger> jgraham, oh, you folks are at GB?
  622. # [15:46] <Ms2ger> FB*
  623. # [15:46] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: at this point I wonder if we should just back out to the previous galimatias version -- 0.0.4 I guess
  624. # [15:48] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, I wish I could troll as well as that person
  625. # [15:49] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: because another problem is that galimatias 0.1.0 requires a newer version of ICU4J than what we have. I think it maybe it needs v4.5 at least, and we have v4.4 -- which seems to lack the getUTS46Instance method (or at least the right getUTS46Instance method that galimatias expects)
  626. # [15:49] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: :-)
  627. # [15:54] * sangwhan_ is now known as sangwhan
  628. # [15:57] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@199.71.174.204)
  629. # [15:57] * Quits: newtron (~newtron@199.71.174.204) (Remote host closed the connection)
  630. # [15:58] * Joins: newtron (~newtron@199.71.174.203)
  631. # [16:01] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@209.201.113.2)
  632. # [16:01] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@bl17-208-83.dsl.telepac.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  633. # [16:01] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt)
  634. # [16:06] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  635. # [16:16] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt)
  636. # [16:16] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  637. # [16:20] * Joins: hemanth_ (~hemanth@122.167.108.138)
  638. # [16:21] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  639. # [16:26] <Ualidus> i have to go, see ya.
  640. # [16:26] * Parts: Ualidus (~root@LMontsouris-152-62-14-199.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  641. # [16:30] * Joins: mpaarating (~mpaaratin@rrcs-97-78-217-146.se.biz.rr.com)
  642. # [16:39] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  643. # [16:39] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt)
  644. # [16:40] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  645. # [16:40] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt)
  646. # [16:53] * Joins: Jasper (jstpierre@unaffiliated/magcius)
  647. # [16:54] <Jasper> Trying to parse something in the CSS transitions spec.
  648. # [16:54] <Jasper> "For each shadow, if one input shadow is ‘inset’ and the other is not, then the result for that shadow matches the inputs; otherwise the entire list is not interpolable."
  649. # [16:54] <Jasper> That reads to me like if the two shadows are opposing, then it's interpolable, but if they're the same, then it's not.
  650. # [16:54] <Jasper> That seems quite wrong to me.
  651. # [16:55] <Jasper> How am I supposed to read it?
  652. # [16:56] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.102)
  653. # [16:56] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  654. # [16:58] * Quits: Guest77888 (~Krinkle@ec2-50-112-50-28.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com) (Changing host)
  655. # [16:58] * Joins: Guest77888 (~Krinkle@wikimedia/Krinkle)
  656. # [16:58] * Guest77888 is now known as Krinkle
  657. # [17:00] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:80fc:224:7e7a:91ff:fe25:a5a3)
  658. # [17:00] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  659. # [17:04] * Quits: mven_ (~textual@ip68-104-38-84.lv.lv.cox.net) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  660. # [17:04] <MikeSmith> Jasper: you might have better luck pinging dino about that on #webkit, if he's around there
  661. # [17:05] <TabAtkins> Jasper: Yup, that's totally opposite.
  662. # [17:06] <TabAtkins> And also super-unclear what it's trying to talk about.
  663. # [17:06] <TabAtkins> (Looks like it's trying to define the inset-ness fo the interpolating shadow.)
  664. # [17:06] <TabAtkins> Jasper: I'll fix.
  665. # [17:08] <Jasper> TabAtkins, thanks!
  666. # [17:09] * Quits: Ducki_ (~Ducki@191.233.66.1) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  667. # [17:10] * Quits: heycam|away (~cam@wok.mcc.id.au) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  668. # [17:11] <TabAtkins> Jasper: What's your name, for the Acks?
  669. # [17:11] <Jasper> TabAtkins, Jasper St. Pierre
  670. # [17:11] <TabAtkins> Does that alphabetize as S or P?
  671. # [17:11] <Jasper> I'd go with S.
  672. # [17:12] <TabAtkins> Oh, didn't matter anyway; last name in the acks was an M.
  673. # [17:12] <TabAtkins> Anyway, fixed and pushing now.
  674. # [17:13] <MikeSmith> in the spec there's an example for the "accept" attribute for input@type that looks like <input type="file"accept=".doc,.docx,.xml,application/msword,application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document">
  675. # [17:14] <MikeSmith> that is, with extensions like ".doc" in there -- not just mime types
  676. # [17:14] <MikeSmith> Do UAs actually support that?
  677. # [17:14] <Ms2ger> TabAtkins, alphabetizes as J, clearly ;)
  678. # [17:16] <TabAtkins> Ms2ger: This spec alphabetizes by family name, so I'm just matching convention.
  679. # [17:17] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  680. # [17:19] * Quits: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  681. # [17:19] * Joins: scor (scor@nat/acquia/x-xkgkvhbwtdvblobv)
  682. # [17:19] * Quits: scor (scor@nat/acquia/x-xkgkvhbwtdvblobv) (Changing host)
  683. # [17:19] * Joins: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  684. # [17:22] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  685. # [17:24] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: dunno if you're still around any longer today, but if you are, please let me know if it's OK with you to downgrade galimatias do the previous version -- 0.0.4. I'd go ahead and just do it, but I don't want to further muff things up with you trying to deploy right now.
  686. # [17:25] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: anyway I don't think the 0.1.0 version of galimatias is going to work for us in production until we update our ICU4J version
  687. # [17:33] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.209)
  688. # [17:35] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.209) (Client Quit)
  689. # [17:35] * Joins: abinader (sid21713@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lwpeuvrspzgjgnuy)
  690. # [17:40] * Joins: gavinc (~gavin@b91e-cff0-5833-fdd6-030d-4002-3420-2062.6rd.ip6.sonic.net)
  691. # [17:41] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  692. # [17:41] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.209)
  693. # [17:41] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt)
  694. # [17:43] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Remote host closed the connection)
  695. # [17:46] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@239.201.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  696. # [17:48] * Joins: technommy (~technommy@121.15.84.49)
  697. # [17:53] * Quits: hemanth_ (~hemanth@122.167.108.138) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  698. # [18:01] * JakeA_ is now known as JakeA
  699. # [18:03] * Joins: Rastus_Vernon (uid15187@wikimedia/Rastus-Vernon)
  700. # [18:04] * Joins: mven_ (~textual@169.241.49.206)
  701. # [18:16] * Joins: Maurice` (copyman@5ED5617C.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  702. # [18:18] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@CPE48f8b385c01c-CM602ad06daeed.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  703. # [18:20] * Quits: mven_ (~textual@169.241.49.206) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  704. # [18:20] * Pookz_ is now known as Pookz
  705. # [18:23] * Quits: Pookz (~justin@rrcs-76-79-156-34.west.biz.rr.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  706. # [18:27] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@115.245.13.106)
  707. # [18:29] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@115.245.13.106) (Client Quit)
  708. # [18:29] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@213.166.174.2) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  709. # [18:36] * Quits: tj_vantoll (~Adium@2601:4:5380:2ec:752e:917a:32c1:71af) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  710. # [18:40] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  711. # [18:43] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: Reconnecting…)
  712. # [18:43] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-44-207.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
  713. # [18:43] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.109.80.74) (Remote host closed the connection)
  714. # [18:44] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  715. # [18:46] * Joins: montecfel (~montecfel@gateway/tor-sasl/montecfel)
  716. # [18:57] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  717. # [19:01] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@corp.mtv2.mozilla.com)
  718. # [19:02] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  719. # [19:03] * Joins: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginm.net)
  720. # [19:06] * Joins: mven_ (~textual@169.241.49.206)
  721. # [19:10] * Quits: adactio (~adactio@212.42.170.121) (Quit: adactio)
  722. # [19:18] <Hixie> Manishearth: yeah, i need to update HTML to point to fetch.spec.whatwg.org
  723. # [19:19] * Quits: bnicholson (~bnicholso@24.130.57.109) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  724. # [19:23] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  725. # [19:27] * Quits: cheron (~cheron@unaffiliated/cheron) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  726. # [19:33] * Joins: ambv (~ambv@206.108.217.134)
  727. # [19:34] * Joins: jeremyj (~jeremyj@17.202.49.56)
  728. # [19:35] * Quits: jeremyj (~jeremyj@17.202.49.56) (Client Quit)
  729. # [19:35] * Joins: jeremyj (~jeremyj@17.202.49.56)
  730. # [19:36] * Quits: jeremyj (~jeremyj@17.202.49.56) (Client Quit)
  731. # [19:43] * Joins: estellevw (~estellewy@209.49.73.82)
  732. # [19:43] * Joins: jeremyj (~jeremyj@17.202.49.56)
  733. # [19:43] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.202.48.136)
  734. # [19:46] * Joins: ambv_ (~ambv@206.108.217.134)
  735. # [19:46] * Joins: bnicholson (~bnicholso@2620:101:80fc:224:3e97:eff:feef:9aba)
  736. # [19:48] * Quits: ambv (~ambv@206.108.217.134) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  737. # [19:50] * Quits: mven_ (~textual@169.241.49.206) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  738. # [19:51] * Joins: tj_vantoll (~Adium@adsl-108-68-140-60.dsl.lgtpmi.sbcglobal.net)
  739. # [19:52] * tbsaunde_ is now known as tbsaunde
  740. # [19:56] * Joins: mven_ (~textual@169.241.49.206)
  741. # [19:59] * Quits: mven_ (~textual@169.241.49.206) (Client Quit)
  742. # [20:00] * Quits: SteveF (~chatzilla@cpc3-nmal20-2-0-cust916.19-2.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 30.0/20140605174243])
  743. # [20:05] * Joins: mven_ (~textual@169.241.49.206)
  744. # [20:08] * Joins: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-mhvrrvhzsifhmlis)
  745. # [20:10] * Quits: mven_ (~textual@169.241.49.206) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  746. # [20:11] * Joins: josemanuel (~josemanue@80.30.1.30)
  747. # [20:19] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-196-50.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  748. # [20:22] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.cust.bredband2.com)
  749. # [20:24] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@corp.mtv2.mozilla.com) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  750. # [20:26] * Quits: izhak (~izhak@92.248.142.152) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  751. # [20:26] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.24.24)
  752. # [20:26] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  753. # [20:27] * Joins: danjesus (~danjesus@187.37.68.156)
  754. # [20:30] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.202.48.136) (Quit: weinig)
  755. # [20:31] * Joins: izhak (~izhak@92.248.142.152)
  756. # [20:32] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.24.24) (Quit: othermaciej)
  757. # [20:33] * Joins: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141)
  758. # [20:35] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.24.24)
  759. # [20:37] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.114.0.243)
  760. # [20:37] * Quits: hasather (~hasather@80.91.33.141) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  761. # [20:41] * Joins: weinig_ (~weinig@17.244.3.104)
  762. # [20:43] * Quits: Philip` (~philip@compass.zaynar.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  763. # [20:43] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.114.0.243) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  764. # [20:43] * weinig_ is now known as weinig
  765. # [20:44] * Joins: Philip` (~philip@compass.zaynar.co.uk)
  766. # [20:45] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.24.24) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  767. # [20:46] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@17.202.43.222)
  768. # [20:52] * Joins: darobin (~darobin@78.208.93.24)
  769. # [20:57] * Joins: ^esc_ (~esc-ape@77.119.131.126.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
  770. # [20:58] * Quits: ^esc (~esc-ape@178.115.130.4.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  771. # [21:05] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.114.3.36)
  772. # [21:06] * Quits: sankha93 (uid12218@fsf/emeritus/sankha93) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  773. # [21:08] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.244.3.104) (Quit: weinig)
  774. # [21:08] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.114.3.36) (Client Quit)
  775. # [21:18] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.24.24)
  776. # [21:19] * Quits: Rastus_Vernon (uid15187@wikimedia/Rastus-Vernon) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  777. # [21:20] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.24.24) (Client Quit)
  778. # [21:23] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.24.24)
  779. # [21:26] * Krinkle is now known as Krinkle|detached
  780. # [21:30] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  781. # [21:32] * Quits: markkes (~markkes@62.207.90.201) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  782. # [21:32] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.24.24) (Quit: othermaciej)
  783. # [21:37] * Quits: yoshiki (~yoshiki@miku.s.su.la) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  784. # [21:38] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@98.196-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Quit: nn)
  785. # [21:40] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com)
  786. # [21:41] <Hixie> jgraham: i removed omit_optional_tags=on but i'm still getting some end tags omitted, any idea what's up?
  787. # [21:42] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@26.186.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt)
  788. # [21:42] <zcorpan> mathiasbynens: hmm. i see "The latest plan is to land the showModalDialog removal in Chromium 36. "
  789. # [21:43] * Quits: estellevw (~estellewy@209.49.73.82) (Quit: estellevw)
  790. # [21:46] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@26.186.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  791. # [21:47] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Quit: jarek)
  792. # [21:47] * Joins: estellevw (~estellewy@209.49.66.106)
  793. # [21:50] * Quits: danjesus (~danjesus@187.37.68.156)
  794. # [21:53] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.209) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  795. # [21:53] <timeless> MikeSmith: where?
  796. # [21:53] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@192.150.10.209)
  797. # [21:58] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.104.248.getinternet.no)
  798. # [21:58] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.cust.bredband2.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  799. # [21:59] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.cust.bredband2.com)
  800. # [22:00] * Quits: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.cust.bredband2.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  801. # [22:00] * Quits: tj_vantoll (~Adium@adsl-108-68-140-60.dsl.lgtpmi.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  802. # [22:00] * Joins: jensnockert (~jensnocke@dynamic.1.7.34dbfd722180.e0f8471ae7fa.cust.bredband2.com)
  803. # [22:03] * Joins: mven_ (~textual@169.241.49.206)
  804. # [22:09] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@66.207.208.102) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  805. # [22:09] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@2001:450:1f:224:6496:c8ee:61b1:ded1)
  806. # [22:11] <montecfel> Why is nothing outputted when I resize the window? document.addEventListener("resize", function() { console.log("a"); });
  807. # [22:11] <montecfel> Also, is there better documentation than MozDev? I find it to suck.
  808. # [22:12] * Quits: jeremyj (~jeremyj@17.202.49.56) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  809. # [22:12] * Joins: jeremyj_ (~jeremyj@17.114.217.142)
  810. # [22:13] * Joins: Rastus_Vernon (uid15187@wikimedia/Rastus-Vernon)
  811. # [22:15] * Quits: mven_ (~textual@169.241.49.206) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  812. # [22:16] * Joins: tj_vantoll (~Adium@2601:4:5380:2ec:29a4:b25b:5ab7:3d4a)
  813. # [22:18] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Quit: tantek)
  814. # [22:18] * Quits: jeremyj_ (~jeremyj@17.114.217.142) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  815. # [22:19] * Joins: jeremyj (~jeremyj@17.114.217.142)
  816. # [22:19] * Joins: dshwang_ (dshwang@nat/intel/x-ucvoqjldlkcqcwzu)
  817. # [22:21] * Quits: dshwang (~dshwang@192.55.55.37) (Remote host closed the connection)
  818. # [22:23] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  819. # [22:25] * Quits: scor (scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  820. # [22:25] * Quits: hober (~ted@unaffiliated/hober) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  821. # [22:26] * Joins: hober (~ted@unaffiliated/hober)
  822. # [22:29] * Joins: mven_ (~textual@169.241.49.206)
  823. # [22:30] * Parts: montecfel (~montecfel@gateway/tor-sasl/montecfel)
  824. # [22:31] <mathiasbynens> montecfel: because you’re resizing the `window`, like you said, not the `document`
  825. # [22:34] * Quits: mven_ (~textual@169.241.49.206) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  826. # [22:34] <Hixie> gsnedders: dude in what order does anolis number IDs?
  827. # [22:34] <Hixie> gsnedders: i just noticed that id=history-0 is after id=history-1 in the HTML spec
  828. # [22:35] <Hixie> is it like dfns before headings or some such?
  829. # [22:39] <Hixie> looks like that's exactly what it is
  830. # [22:39] <Hixie> oh man
  831. # [22:47] * Quits: jeremyj (~jeremyj@17.114.217.142) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  832. # [22:48] * Joins: jeremyj (~jeremyj@17.114.217.142)
  833. # [22:55] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  834. # [22:56] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@17.202.43.222) (Remote host closed the connection)
  835. # [22:56] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  836. # [22:57] * Quits: abinader (sid21713@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lwpeuvrspzgjgnuy)
  837. # [23:00] * Joins: mven_ (~textual@169.241.49.206)
  838. # [23:03] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Quit: tantek)
  839. # [23:05] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Quit: sicking)
  840. # [23:07] * Joins: Decapitated82 (~IceChat9@c-24-19-7-174.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  841. # [23:08] * Parts: Decapitated82 (~IceChat9@c-24-19-7-174.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  842. # [23:09] * Quits: TallTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  843. # [23:09] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  844. # [23:13] * Quits: Maurice` (copyman@5ED5617C.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  845. # [23:13] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.114.216.235)
  846. # [23:13] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@17.244.5.121)
  847. # [23:17] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@corp.mtv2.mozilla.com)
  848. # [23:31] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@90-230-218-37-no135.tbcn.telia.com) (Quit: Bye)
  849. # [23:31] * Quits: izhak (~izhak@92.248.142.152) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  850. # [23:40] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  851. # [23:42] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.244.5.121) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  852. # [23:44] * Quits: darobin (~darobin@78.208.93.24) (Remote host closed the connection)
  853. # [23:49] * Quits: tj_vantoll (~Adium@2601:4:5380:2ec:29a4:b25b:5ab7:3d4a) (Quit: Leaving.)
  854. # Session Close: Tue Jul 08 00:00:00 2014

The end :)