/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-08-19 / end

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  51. # [01:54] <Hixie_> bholley: here now
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  53. # [01:55] <Hixie_> Domenic: you around?
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  68. # [02:31] <TabAtkins> marcosc_: Good response. ^_^
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  75. # [02:39] <marcosc_> TabAtkins: thanks :)
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  188. # [07:44] <hsivonen> dear lazy IRC, have non-Gecko engines already implemented the fragment parsing fixes for SVG and MathML contexts?
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  197. # [08:06] <annevk> JakeA: it seems we might implement Notification.getClones() as Notification.get() so the getClones() name is not final at all
  198. # [08:08] <annevk> hsivonen: .<script>document.body.innerHTML = "<svg></svg>";w(document.body.firstChild.namespaceURI)</script> in Live DOM Viewer suggests Chrome does
  199. # [08:08] <JakeA> annevk: cool, I don't think it needs "clones" in the name. I'm assuming .get() still returns a sequence?
  200. # [08:09] <annevk> hsivonen: IE10 does too
  201. # [08:09] <annevk> JakeA: a promise for an array
  202. # [08:09] <zcorpan> annevk: you need svg.innerHTML
  203. # [08:09] <annevk> zcorpan: oops
  204. # [08:10] <annevk> <svg></svg><script>document.body.firstChild.innerHTML = "<rect>";w(document.body.firstChild.firstChild.namespaceURI)</script>
  205. # [08:10] <annevk> Chrome still does, IE10 does not
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  208. # [08:12] <JakeA> annevk: cool. I think we'll still go with getAll, means we can introduce a singular later if needed
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  212. # [08:22] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: If you could comment over at https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21818#c8 as well I'd appreciate it. (I hope to get that change reverted.)
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  217. # [08:34] <othermaciej> MikeSmith: what’s the problem with it?
  218. # [08:34] <othermaciej> is the http-equiv version valid in non-XML?
  219. # [08:35] <othermaciej> it seems like it is
  220. # [08:35] * MikeSmith looks back at the bug
  221. # [08:36] <othermaciej> Leif’s arguments seem kinda reasonable - if the http-equiv form is allowed in HTML, and the charset= form is allowed in XML for compatibility, and the http-equiv form works in at least a few more places, it seems reasonable (to me) to allow the http-equiv form in XML for compatibility as well
  222. # [08:38] * Joins: nunnun (~hiro@2001:200:164:48:20c:29ff:fe02:11d2)
  223. # [08:39] <MikeSmith> othermaciej: <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" /> is still valid for text/html files but only to allow for legacy content that still has it
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  225. # [08:40] <MikeSmith> the logic is, we don't want to further proliferate it
  226. # [08:40] <othermaciej> any form of charset declaration in XML is also presumably for some legacy-related reason
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  228. # [08:41] <MikeSmith> well the charset= form is the best-practice form from text/html and it's allowed in XML just as a nod to "ease migration" or however Hixie_ worded it
  229. # [08:42] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@94.234.170.67) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  230. # [08:42] <othermaciej> migration in which direction? :-p
  231. # [08:42] <MikeSmith> it's certinaly not there to encourage people to attempt to do the polyglot thing
  232. # [08:42] <MikeSmith> yeah, true about migration in which direction
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  234. # [08:43] <MikeSmith> I think we should just not make it it all any more ugly than it already is
  235. # [08:44] * Quits: zcorpan_ (~zcorpan@94.234.170.85) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  236. # [08:44] <MikeSmith> the only use case that's been put forward for <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="application/xhtml+xml; charset=UTF-8" /> is polyglot
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  238. # [08:45] <MikeSmith> othermaciej: anyway as usual hsivonen says it better than me https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21818#c10
  239. # [08:46] <zcorpan> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="application/xhtml+xml; charset=UTF-8" /> doesn't help anything for polyglot
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  241. # [08:47] <zcorpan> if anything it probably has worse compat
  242. # [08:47] <annevk> Polyglot is not dead yet?
  243. # [08:47] <annevk> o_O
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  245. # [08:57] <SamB> annevk: you mean besides among those who just didn't get the memo yet?
  246. # [09:00] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: true but I guess somewhere in the tangle of words in the description and comments in that bug advocating for it, there's some discernable rationale of why he believes it's helpful for polyglot
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  248. # [09:02] <zcorpan> wait, <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="application/xhtml+xml; charset=UTF-8" /> is not allowed. <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" /> is allowed
  249. # [09:03] <zcorpan> i thought you were discussing the +xml vs text/html part
  250. # [09:05] <zcorpan> Hixie_: why is https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26533 more messy for img? img already has crossorigin
  251. # [09:05] <annevk> I wonder what the pay off is in investing such large amounts of time in something that is ultimately useless
  252. # [09:06] <annevk> zcorpan: because you do multiple fetches
  253. # [09:06] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@c-98-210-159-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: sicking)
  254. # [09:07] <zcorpan> maybe this is a good time to test whether other elements also do multiple fetches in browsers
  255. # [09:09] <annevk> zcorpan: well there's that, but I mostly meant with <picture>
  256. # [09:10] <annevk> zcorpan: that will require multiple Request objects to be exposed
  257. # [09:10] <annevk> zcorpan: I can imagine you might different settings per alternative
  258. # [09:11] <zcorpan> annevk: right now <img crossorigin> is applied for all candidates
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  260. # [09:11] <zcorpan> annevk: like <video crossorigin> (which also affects <track>)
  261. # [09:11] <zcorpan> annevk: what options are there?
  262. # [09:11] <annevk> zcorpan: sure, but we're discussing something more open-ended for control over headers and such
  263. # [09:12] <annevk> zcorpan: and allows setting priority per fetch-channel
  264. # [09:12] <zcorpan> annevk: when would you want different settings for different candidates?
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  280. # [09:55] <galaxyAbstractor> Hey, I've looked around on the whatwg site for a bit, maybe I'm blind, but is there somewhere where one can read old versions of standards? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=422526 mentions when globalStorage was removed and replaced by localStorage, and I would like to read more about the standard that was globalStorage, since I'm doing some research on various standards
  281. # [09:56] <hendry> galaxyAbstractor: guess you could checkout http://svn.whatwg.org/webapps/ ?
  282. # [09:57] <galaxyAbstractor> hendry: ah, thanks, I didn't know that existed, I'll take a look at that
  283. # [09:57] <jgraham> You might be better off with https://github.com/whatwg/html-mirror
  284. # [09:57] <jgraham> Same thing but mirrored into git
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  286. # [09:58] <zcorpan> galaxyAbstractor: also http://platform.html5.org/history/
  287. # [09:59] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: time to add some stuff to that?
  288. # [09:59] <annevk> zcorpan: not sure, but I don't want to preclude things at the low level
  289. # [09:59] <galaxyAbstractor> jgraham: zcorpan: Thanks
  290. # [09:59] <annevk> zcorpan: I could imagine you'd use the same URL for all candidates and vary based on a header
  291. # [10:00] <zcorpan> annevk: that's ClientHints and was rejected because conneg
  292. # [10:00] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: time for somebody to :-) https://github.com/whatwg/platform.html5.org/ patches welcome etc
  293. # [10:00] * hendry notices https://github.com/whatwg/streams ... how is that different to a Websocket?
  294. # [10:01] <MikeSmith> completely
  295. # [10:01] <annevk> zcorpan: it was? Anyway, I don't think we should stop people from playing with it in libraries
  296. # [10:01] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: i guess that document is a possible replacement for http://html-differences.whatwg.org/#changelog
  297. # [10:02] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: yeah it could be for sure
  298. # [10:04] <zcorpan> annevk: there was a respimg f2f in paris last year and i think dbaron explained how conneg had failed in the past so then ClientHints sort of died
  299. # [10:04] <foolip> annevk: will you have time for fullscreen bugs today?
  300. # [10:04] <MikeSmith> hendry: https://whatwg.github.io/streams/#rs-intro see for example
  301. # [10:04] <annevk> foolip: I want to fix attributes first
  302. # [10:04] <zcorpan> annevk: anyway, if you use ClientHints you just use <img src>
  303. # [10:05] <foolip> annevk: ok
  304. # [10:05] <annevk> zcorpan: I meant that you'd let the browser decide but you want your server to do things based on a header
  305. # [10:05] <foolip> I'll try my own suggestions and see how it goes
  306. # [10:05] <annevk> zcorpan: not necessarily client hints
  307. # [10:05] <galaxyAbstractor> I found this: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/2005-09-01/#client-side but that warning is kinda annoying since it's covering a large area of the screen and it doesn't seem possible to close it either :\
  308. # [10:06] <annevk> foolip: parentDocs makes sense, the checking later seems somewhat scary since it means you can already have resized before you realize you cannot resize
  309. # [10:06] <hendry> MikeSmith: i don't get it. what's the use case?
  310. # [10:07] <zcorpan> annevk: oh. ok. why would you do that instead of varying the URL?
  311. # [10:07] <annevk> zcorpan: I don't know, but the idea of exposing Request objects for each fetch is to allow folks to figure out these things
  312. # [10:08] <foolip> annevk: you can still check before the resize, since the resize is after the "continue async" bit
  313. # [10:09] <annevk> foolip: if you are still doing a check before the resize, how is it going to be different?
  314. # [10:09] <annevk> foolip: note that it will always have to be in sync with the main thread because it's checking global state
  315. # [10:09] <annevk> foolip: or would you only check whether it's allowed?
  316. # [10:10] <annevk> I guess resizing would only happen if not already fullscreen, so the whole nesting game applies a bit less...
  317. # [10:10] <foolip> annevk: not doing it before requestFullscreen() returns means that it could take however long is needed to do the check, even if it's all done on the main thread
  318. # [10:10] <MikeSmith> hendry: the use case is to define a stream abstraction and APIs for other specs to reference that use streams
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  320. # [10:11] <foolip> I don't know if the cross-process stuff is going to be a problem, that just seemed like a good place to put it in case it needs to be made more async later
  321. # [10:12] <zcorpan> annevk: it's not clear to me why it was ok for crossorigin to be so blunt to apply equally to <track> and <source> for <video> but now we need settings for each individual url
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  323. # [10:12] <annevk> zcorpan: it's not clear to me that was okay, but this is lower level
  324. # [10:12] <annevk> zcorpan: this exposes the actual request
  325. # [10:12] <annevk> zcorpan: naturally each of these has its own request
  326. # [10:13] <annevk> zcorpan: for one because they have different URLs
  327. # [10:13] <zcorpan> annevk: sure, i'm fine with exposing each request
  328. # [10:13] <annevk> zcorpan: I recommend following up on one of the WHATWG threads or raising a new one and copying Ben from Facebook and the others that were interested in this
  329. # [10:14] <zcorpan> ok
  330. # [10:19] <Ms2ger> 'String(symbol) will no longer throw; symbol+"" will still throw though.'
  331. # [10:19] <Ms2ger> Wat
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  335. # [10:24] <annevk> one uses valueOf the other toString() iirc
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  344. # [10:45] <annevk> Browsers make no sense with attributes
  345. # [10:45] <annevk> Ms2ger: we're going to need quite a few tests to ensure interoperability for all these new methods :/
  346. # [10:46] <Ms2ger> Yay.
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  348. # [10:48] <jgraham> Can't tell if sarcastic or looking forward to demonstrating browser crazy.
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  351. # [10:49] <Ms2ger> The former
  352. # [10:50] <Ms2ger> Maybe I can coerce abinader
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  381. # [12:23] <annevk> there's about 21 attributes/methods to deal with attributes
  382. # [12:24] <annevk> to do get/set/remove/has
  383. # [12:24] <annevk> tears
  384. # [12:24] <annevk> many many tears
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  386. # [12:27] <hsivonen> annevk: just in DOM Core?
  387. # [12:27] * Quits: nunnun (~hiro@2001:200:164:48:20c:29ff:fe02:11d2) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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  389. # [12:28] <annevk> hsivonen: yeah
  390. # [12:28] <annevk> hsivonen: not counting id/className/classList
  391. # [12:28] <hsivonen> annevk: :-(
  392. # [12:29] <annevk> maybe I should write a blogpost about this
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  397. # [12:55] <zcorpan> do it
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  408. # [13:26] <zcorpan> at least we don't have removeAttributeNodeNS. http://www.w3.org/DOM/faq.html#removeAttributeNodeNS
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  463. # [16:31] <Domenic> that page is quite an interesting mirror onto how things were thought of at the time
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  467. # [16:35] <Domenic> annevk: blog post++
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  478. # [17:10] <annevk> Hixie_: with the current *.spec.whatwg.org setup, can we still get TLS?
  479. # [17:11] <annevk> Hixie_: ideally TLS + HSTS
  480. # [17:14] <zcorpan> Domenic: indeed
  481. # [17:14] <Domenic> annevk: I looked into it and it's expensive, but doable
  482. # [17:15] <annevk> Would be a nice end-of-year target for WHATWG
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  484. # [17:16] <Domenic> http://www.sslshopper.com/best-ssl-wildcard-certificate.html basically
  485. # [17:16] <zcorpan> we could just introduce a member fee
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  487. # [17:16] <jgraham> WHATWG has end-of-year targets now?
  488. # [17:16] <jgraham> Is there also a bonus scheme?
  489. # [17:17] <jgraham> Maybe based on the number of spec that reac Rec.
  490. # [17:17] <jgraham> +h
  491. # [17:17] <Ms2ger> annevk gets all the bonus
  492. # [17:17] <Domenic> wait wrong link http://www.sslshopper.com/unified-communications-uc-ssl-certificates.html
  493. # [17:18] <Domenic> hmm last time i googled this it was less confusing
  494. # [17:18] <jgraham> Hmm, why do you need unified not wildcard?
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  496. # [17:20] <jgraham> https://www.gandi.net/ssl/standard#multi seems like it could be enough?
  497. # [17:20] <Domenic> well that page on wildcard said wildcard is only one level
  498. # [17:21] <Domenic> yeah something that has us manually update the list of SSLed subdomains would probably also work
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  500. # [17:21] <Domenic> or a single wildcard for *.spec.whatwg.org, plus another for whatwg.org, maybe?
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  502. # [17:21] <Domenic> or maybe for *.whatwg.org so that https://spec.whatwg.org works too
  503. # [17:22] <Domenic> lol this is most unhelpful SO Q&A ever http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13192200/wildcard-ssl-certificate-registration-with-multi-level-subdomains
  504. # [17:23] <jgraham> Domenic: So I found a more useful SO
  505. # [17:24] <jgraham> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2115611/wildcard-ssl-on-sub-subdomain
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  511. # [17:29] <jgraham> So it seems like you either need a wildcard cert for *.spec.whatwg.org and one for *.whatwg.org or a multidomain cert for all the actual domains we have, or maybe a SAN cert
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  513. # [17:30] <jgraham> So I guess the first option is going to be about 20GBP or 30USD/month
  514. # [17:31] <Domenic> what's the difference between SAN and multidomain
  515. # [17:32] <Domenic> also can we get a pretty extended validation one i like it when my address bar is all green and shiny
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  517. # [17:34] <jgraham> I think multidomain is one cert that covers N named domains, but SAN allows multiple wildcard. But I'm not sure
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  520. # [17:36] <Domenic> FWIW I already got us a (normal) SSL cert for resources.whatwg.org because I wanted to be able to include logos on GitHub pages without getting mixed content errors.
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  522. # [17:37] <jgraham> There are also various other subdomains there like developers.whatwg.org
  523. # [17:37] <jgraham> It turns out that using lots of subdomains sucks for SSL
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  525. # [17:38] <Ms2ger> So it seems
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  531. # [17:53] <Domenic> I could swear last time I looked there was a way to pay like $500/year for a super-wildcard cert. Maybe I was just confused
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  538. # [18:03] <Domenic> wildcard + SAN is probably what I was thinking of. See last paragraph of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildcard_certificate#Limitation
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  540. # [18:06] <jgraham> Wikipedia loses points for suggesting that www.wikipedia.org is more "the same website" as wikipedia.org than meta.m.wikipedia.org
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  555. # [18:38] <zewt_> things that are never okay on the web: wakelocks.
  556. # [18:39] <zewt_> (for CPU locks at least, screen locks are more sane)
  557. # [18:46] <Hixie_> as far as TLS goes. If y'all want to manage it, I'm game. But I don't see much point, personally.
  558. # [18:47] <Hixie_> setting up the cert for www.whatwg.org was a huge pain in the ass
  559. # [18:47] <Hixie_> setting up the cert for resources.whatwg.org for me was relatively easy cos Domenic did the hard work iirc
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  563. # [18:53] <annevk> the main thing I dislike is the yearly renewal shit
  564. # [18:59] <annevk> Hixie_: http://wiki.whatwg.org/index.php?title=MetaExtensions&curid=1655&diff=9674&oldid=9669 seems like some kind of spam
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  568. # [19:01] <Hixie_> who's the editor in charge of this wake lock thread?
  569. # [19:01] <annevk> Hixie_: marcosc_ maybe
  570. # [19:02] <Hixie_> why is that spam?
  571. # [19:02] <annevk> Hixie_: because of the site it links to
  572. # [19:02] <Hixie_> does marcosc_ follow whatwg@?
  573. # [19:02] <Hixie_> the site it links to describes meta tags...
  574. # [19:02] <annevk> Hixie_: think so
  575. # [19:02] <Hixie_> marcosc_: ping
  576. # [19:03] <Hixie_> i mean, i agree that those meta tags are pointless at the end of the dya
  577. # [19:03] <annevk> yeah, but it seems like a tactic to increase the ranking of the domain as none of that is really useful
  578. # [19:03] <Hixie_> but so are most
  579. # [19:03] <annevk> mkay
  580. # [19:03] <Hixie_> i think they've gone to sufficient effort to actually do the right thing that if this is really spam, then let them have it
  581. # [19:03] <Hixie_> it's not like that wiki page is actually going to give them any boost, it has nothing to do with law firms
  582. # [19:04] <Ms2ger> So we not put noreferer on everything?
  583. # [19:04] <Hixie_> go ahead :-)
  584. # [19:04] <Ms2ger> Do*
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  586. # [19:06] <Hixie_> i don't think so
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  595. # [19:21] <TabAtkins> Ms2ger: Re: String(symbol), they wanted *some* way to do a console.log/etc with a string, but wanted to avoid footguns with people naively doing string manipulation on keys and accidentally stringifying a symbol.
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  597. # [19:26] <annevk> man this blog post is long
  598. # [19:26] <annevk> attributes are too complex :(
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  607. # [19:54] <annevk> http://annevankesteren.nl/2014/08/attributes
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  612. # [20:02] <Domenic> Did the term "global scope polluter" not make it into the standard?
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  616. # [20:05] <annevk> I think a different set of people used that term
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  618. # [20:06] <annevk> In HTML it's "the Window object is indexed for property retrieval"
  619. # [20:07] <tantek> annevk - how much of the attributes mess is due to namespaces?
  620. # [20:08] <annevk> quite a bit, but I think DTDs did a worse number on them
  621. # [20:09] <annevk> via XML
  622. # [20:09] <annevk> oh, I forgot to mention case-insensitive issues in that post
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  624. # [20:11] <tantek> annevk - would a lot of real world pages actually break if we dropped all the namespaces complexities with DOM attributes?
  625. # [20:11] <annevk> yeah
  626. # [20:11] <annevk> this is what we tried
  627. # [20:11] <tantek> crazy
  628. # [20:11] <annevk> to simplify this mess
  629. # [20:11] <annevk> and it failed
  630. # [20:11] <Domenic> it was pretty close
  631. # [20:11] <tantek> who *are* these people?!?
  632. # [20:12] <Domenic> i feel that with some console deprecation warnings, plus a couple years, we could maybe get there
  633. # [20:12] <annevk> enterprise, JavaScript libraries
  634. # [20:12] <tantek> enterprise I can see complaining loudly enough. JS libraries are irrelevant except when actually deployed.
  635. # [20:12] <annevk> well they are deployed :-)
  636. # [20:13] <annevk> jQuery sometimes has crazy stuff
  637. # [20:13] <tantek> then the deployments are what matter
  638. # [20:13] <annevk> yup
  639. # [20:13] <tantek> Domenic: this is why deprecation is still useful in specs
  640. # [20:14] <tantek> it may not always be able to get rid of things, but if it sometimes can, that's still useful enough.
  641. # [20:15] <annevk> yeah, I should probably add some red flags
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  644. # [20:18] * SamB imagines actual SVGs of red flags ...
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  650. # [20:24] <tantek> 🚩🚩🚩
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  652. # [20:25] <caitp> you bet
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  679. # [21:31] <zcorpan> json in an html attribute is going to be ugly
  680. # [21:34] <zcorpan> <script src="foo" urloptions="{&quot;foo&quot;: &quot;bar&quot;, &quot;baz&quot;: 5}">
  681. # [21:37] <caitp> usually people use single quotes when they want to do that
  682. # [21:38] <caitp> to avoid the entity reference sillyness
  683. # [21:39] <TabAtkins> Yeah, that's just general practice. If you're gonna use some type of quote in a literal string, you write the string with the opposite kind of quote.
  684. # [21:39] <TabAtkins> "'", '"', etc
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  687. # [21:43] <zcorpan> caitp: sure but (1) json doesn't allow single quotes (2) html serializers usually use double quotes (like innerHTML)
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  689. # [21:45] <caitp> TIL JSON.parse actually will throw in that case
  690. # [21:46] <zcorpan> tantek: annevk: problem with deprecating and warning about things that we then don't/can't remove is that it teaches people to ignore the deprecation/warning
  691. # [21:46] <tantek> zcorpan: do you have evidence for that?
  692. # [21:47] <tantek> my experience has been that people work at removing warnings, and asking how to do so.
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  694. # [21:48] <zcorpan> tantek: well people used html4 transitional with obsoleted features well after the purpose of html4 transitional was past
  695. # [21:49] <zcorpan> but i guess it didn't trigger any warnings in the validator or anything
  696. # [21:49] <boogyman> s/used/still use/
  697. # [21:52] <tantek> zcorpan: right, they used html4 transitional DTD *specifically* because that's how they made warnings go away
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  700. # [21:52] <zcorpan> tantek: true
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  704. # [21:54] <zcorpan> tantek: otoh there are many web developers who completely ignore validation because they know that their stuff works anyway
  705. # [21:56] <tantek> sure, but this is all about thresholds. if enough fixes do happen overtime, stuff can be changed.
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  719. # [22:15] <Domenic> yeah, i think validation and console warnings for JS APIs are very different
  720. # [22:16] <zcorpan> hmm maybe i should use a new logo for html-differences. how about a + above a -
  721. # [22:17] <zcorpan> or the other way around
  722. # [22:18] <SamB> zcorpan: you could steal the icon gitk uses ;-P
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  739. # [22:44] <zcorpan> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/3123 hmmm i dunno
  740. # [22:47] <TabAtkins> Kinda like the first one.
  741. # [22:47] <TabAtkins> Though the second more directly references diff files.
  742. # [22:47] <zcorpan> i think they both look like weird smileys
  743. # [22:47] <TabAtkins> The first does, yeah.
  744. # [22:48] <zcorpan> second thought is to use a 4 but that will just look like channel 4
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  746. # [22:49] <zcorpan> IV
  747. # [22:49] <TabAtkins> Why a 4?
  748. # [22:49] <zcorpan> html4
  749. # [22:49] <TabAtkins> Ah.
  750. # [22:50] <zcorpan> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/3124
  751. # [22:53] <zcorpan> maybe the - + just needs some tweaking with the size and spacing
  752. # [22:55] <zcorpan> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/3125
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  754. # [22:57] <jgraham> Anyone know acolwell?
  755. # [22:58] <jgraham> Or, more specifically, if https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/951 got review when it landed in blink?
  756. # [22:58] <jgraham> (assuming it did)
  757. # [23:00] <Domenic> can't unsee the smileys
  758. # [23:00] <Domenic> currently looking like cyclops puckering his lips
  759. # [23:02] <caitp> most of the wpt stuff in blink isn't actually in the tree, afaik
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  761. # [23:03] <caitp> oh I see what it's saying
  762. # [23:04] <zcorpan> Domenic: how about http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/3126 ?
  763. # [23:05] <foolip> zcorpan: what spec is that for?
  764. # [23:05] <Domenic> zcorpan: nice, now the ruby-red eye laser is even more apparent ^_^
  765. # [23:05] <zcorpan> foolip: http://html-differences.whatwg.org
  766. # [23:05] <zcorpan> Domenic: :-)
  767. # [23:05] <foolip> ah
  768. # [23:06] <jgraham> caitp: https://codereview.chromium.org/245893002 says this already has review, and acolwell has already fixed some issues that people raised, so I wonder if we should just land that patch.
  769. # [23:06] <foolip> maybe a Δ (delta symbol)?
  770. # [23:06] <zcorpan> oooh
  771. # [23:06] <jgraham> At this point the reason against would have to look like "zcorpan or foolip object and are going to do the review" I think ;)
  772. # [23:07] <zcorpan> busy designing logos
  773. # [23:07] <foolip> are we talking about merging https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/951 ?
  774. # [23:07] <caitp> well you could shoot them an email at their @chromium.org address
  775. # [23:07] <Domenic> oooh I like the delta
  776. # [23:08] <jgraham> foolip: yes
  777. # [23:08] * jgraham wonders what these logs are for
  778. # [23:08] <foolip> jgraham: for science!
  779. # [23:08] <jgraham> Are we making a WHATWG spec for button batteries?
  780. # [23:08] <jgraham> *logos
  781. # [23:13] <zcorpan> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/3127 hmm, looks like a tent
  782. # [23:13] <jgraham> That's not what a delta looks like
  783. # [23:13] <Domenic> More angular, and the right side higher. http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/d4/af/45/d4af454459ca864e6cba88ed40c33d0c.jpg
  784. # [23:14] <jgraham> The top should be pointy and, possibly, not all the lines should have the same thickness
  785. # [23:14] <Domenic> s/higher/thicker
  786. # [23:14] <jgraham> Right
  787. # [23:15] <zcorpan> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/3128
  788. # [23:16] <Domenic> nice. slightly off-center but very nice
  789. # [23:17] <Domenic> x=30 fixes it
  790. # [23:17] <jgraham> I still think it should be pointy at the top
  791. # [23:17] <Domenic> maybe y = 68
  792. # [23:19] <jgraham> Oh you used text?
  793. # [23:19] <jgraham> Yeah that would be font differences then
  794. # [23:20] <zcorpan> yeah working on a path now
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  801. # [23:33] <zcorpan> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/3129
  802. # [23:34] <zcorpan> variable stroke width would be nice huh foolip
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  804. # [23:35] <foolip> :)
  805. # [23:36] <foolip> the kind that I worked on actually made it hard to do this kind of thing, because of offsets for the stroke width changes were specified as a point 0..1 on the whole path, so hitting exactly a join was ~impossible
  806. # [23:36] <foolip> this delta looks nice though, like a delta
  807. # [23:37] <foolip> and a bit like a mountain :)
  808. # [23:39] <zcorpan> how were we making the png versions again?
  809. # [23:42] <foolip> take a photo of the svg with your phone, then reduce to just two colors?
  810. # [23:45] <SamB> zcorpan: no idea how you guys do it
  811. # [23:46] <SamB> rsvg and inkscape both having inadequate parsers ...
  812. # [23:46] <zcorpan> SamB: :-(
  813. # [23:46] <zcorpan> annevk: ^
  814. # [23:47] <zcorpan> maybe toDataURL?
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  816. # [23:48] <SamB> what, no toPNG that skips the data URL and just gives you a big hunk of bytes?
  817. # [23:48] * Quits: Maurice` (copyman@5ED5617C.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  818. # [23:48] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  819. # [23:48] <zcorpan> there's toBlob
  820. # [23:49] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-41.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  821. # [23:50] <zcorpan> ok logo deployed, thanks for the feedback
  822. # [23:51] <zcorpan> some time ago, opera supported svg favicons and firefox did not. now it's the other way around it seems
  823. # [23:53] * Joins: jacobolu_ (~jacobolus@177.sub-70-209-203.myvzw.com)
  824. # [23:53] <SamB> zcorpan: not really
  825. # [23:53] <SamB> crash your browser
  826. # [23:53] <SamB> now start it again
  827. # [23:53] <foolip> how does one crash ones browser at will?
  828. # [23:53] * Quits: abinader (sid21713@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-elqtdltpxusrdbvb)
  829. # [23:54] <zcorpan> hmm firefox shows the favicon on first load but then removes it on reload
  830. # [23:54] <SamB> kill -9 or equivalent
  831. # [23:54] <foolip> and why am I awake? good night
  832. # [23:54] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@2600:1012:b124:18de:6041:43f:3e7c:326a) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  833. # [23:54] <zcorpan> same here :-)
  834. # [23:55] <SamB> foolip: it's not a real crash, but it's close enough for Session Restore
  835. # [23:55] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@2a00:801:e0:30:4416:96bf:4791:f23f) (Remote host closed the connection)
  836. # [23:58] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@154.sub-70-209-197.myvzw.com)
  837. # [23:58] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-41.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  838. # Session Close: Wed Aug 20 00:00:00 2014

The end :)