/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-11-10 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Nov 10 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  41. # [02:59] <MikeSmith> annevk: pushed another commit to fix that. thanks for catching it
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  124. # [08:49] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: http://bugzilla.validator.nu/show_bug.cgi?id=1010 and https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1096172 are htmlparser bugs I raised today that I think don't affect the parser in gecko. Please let me know if there's some other place I should submit patches for bugs like that -- I mean other than through bugzilla.mozilla.org
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  158. # [09:51] <annevk> MikeSmith: you don't sleep long
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  164. # [10:02] <MikeSmith> annevk: I get some extra sleep on the train :) going to the office 3 days a week these days
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  172. # [10:33] * annevk tries to reply to all the emails
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  180. # [10:52] <jgraham> annevk: Mind doing mine too?
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  182. # [10:53] <annevk> hah
  183. # [10:55] <jgraham> Well about 98% of my email is telling me that a test I wrote is unstable and no one either disabled it or fixed it in the last two weeks
  184. # [10:56] <annevk> jgraham: speaking of tests, really amazed with the infrastructure you guys put together for web-platform-tests
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  188. # [11:05] <annevk> https://twitter.com/larsberg_/status/531641273959333889 :-)
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  199. # [11:22] <Ms2ger> :)
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  209. # [12:03] <jgraham> Pretty sure that Ms2ger is actually the one running the whole show
  210. # [12:04] <annevk> About time Björn Höhrmann got a replacement
  211. # [12:04] <Ms2ger> Ha
  212. # [12:04] * Ms2ger starts sending rambling emails about rust packages to www-archive
  213. # [12:04] <jgraham> Why do you think they are different entities?
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  220. # [12:41] <Ducki> hi
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  222. # [12:41] <annevk> jgraham: so I can't edit the hosts file on Windows
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  224. # [12:41] <annevk> jgraham: the workaround I found was that 10.0.2.2 points to the Mac's localhost
  225. # [12:41] <annevk> jgraham: which is a Virtualbox feature
  226. # [12:41] <annevk> jgraham: since I'm not doing cross-origin tests, that appears to be working
  227. # [12:43] <jgraham> annevk: Hmm, why can't you edit it?
  228. # [12:43] <annevk> jgraham: it claims that file is readonly
  229. # [12:44] <annevk> jgraham: changing the readonly-ness of the directory talks about admin stuff and then fails...
  230. # [12:45] <jgraham> annevk: The internet claims it should be possible to unset the readonly bit on that file :|
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  234. # [12:58] <Ms2ger> annevk, while you're in a testing mood, https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/r/3138 might be of interest to you :)
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  238. # [13:06] <annevk> jgraham: that "sign in" problem though...
  239. # [13:06] <annevk> Ms2ger: done
  240. # [13:07] <Ms2ger> I guess I never have sign-in issues because I have critic in a pinned tab
  241. # [13:07] <Ms2ger> annevk, thanks
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  252. # [13:51] <annevk> Does IDL now do nested dictionaries?
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  254. # [13:54] <Ms2ger> What are those?
  255. # [13:57] <annevk> Ms2ger: e.g. new Notification(..., { behavior: { vibrate: [2, 3, 2, 3] }})
  256. # [13:58] <Ms2ger> Oh, I think those always existed
  257. # [13:59] <annevk> Pretty sure that is not true
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  263. # [14:20] <hsivonen> Is the item at the end of http://www.w3.org/Consortium/mission.html really everything the W3C proclaims about privacy and mission?
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  265. # [14:31] <annevk> hsivonen: well, you know how much scrutiny TR/ stuff gets, this is worse
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  267. # [14:35] <matijs> annevk: edit the host file on windows by running notepad as administrator (or start cmd as administrator if you prefer command line edit)
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  270. # [14:35] <annevk> matijs: how does that even work?
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  272. # [14:41] <annevk> hsivonen: if you have some time, would appreciate a look at https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19961#c3
  273. # [14:42] <jgraham> annevk: You should be able to right click items on the start menu and do "Run as Administrator"
  274. # [14:43] <matijs> annevk: Right click in the start menu is the new sudo
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  283. # [15:16] <zcorpan> annevk: looks like https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19961#c3 was cut off. i guess you used a non-BMP character?
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  290. # [15:25] <annevk> zcorpan: oh god
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  292. # [15:28] <annevk> zcorpan: added a comment that doesn't have that problem
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  314. # [16:20] <matijs> 1f4a9 :D
  315. # [16:22] <caitp> carlooooos!
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  378. # [18:29] <caitp> answer in one sentence or less, why you think the web is the greatest country on earth
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  380. # [18:30] <danbri> caitp, because it's the easiest to make a backup of?
  381. # [18:31] <jgraham> "who the hell are you and how did you get into my house". Or at least that's what TimBL said when I asked him. (with apologies to xkcd)
  382. # [18:32] <caitp> first step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one
  383. # [18:36] <caitp> but jeff daniels is right, the web is not the greatest country in the world, and he doesn't know what the eff you're talking about, with all of the crazy nonsense baked into the platform, if only there was some way to make it less terrible
  384. # [18:38] <gsnedders> Greatest or least bad? :)
  385. # [18:38] <caitp> like five eyes, the web is pretty much in the pockets of the other terrible countries in the world, and as such is not any less bad
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  387. # [18:39] <caitp> not that that's the webs fault, per se
  388. # [18:40] <caitp> anyways, that's your motivational talk for today, now focus on making the web a better place =)
  389. # [18:40] <jgraham> (I have literally no idea what you are talking about btw)
  390. # [18:42] <caitp> it's vague by design, you could apply it to any particular problem and motivate yourself to solve it, or to cry about how unfixable it is
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  392. # [18:42] <caitp> but maybe things don't have to be unfixable
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  411. # [19:44] <annevk> https://twitter.com/jbouie/status/531835851287056385 o_O
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  446. # [21:38] <rubys> annevk: should javascript:alert("Hello, world!"); be a parse error? See http://intertwingly.net/projects/pegurl/liveview.html#javascript:alert%28%22Hello,%20world!%22%29;
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  480. # [22:21] <annevk> rubys: yeah, at least " " is not a URL code point
  481. # [22:23] <annevk> rubys: note that I have been thinking about relaxing some of these rules, but so far I tried to follow the RFCs on conformance, except for a couple of differences with RFC 3987 that seemed wrong in that RFC
  482. # [22:24] <annevk> rubys: dfn.js breaking is really painful
  483. # [22:24] <annevk> rubys: but I can fix that next week most likely
  484. # [22:25] <annevk> rubys: you were back next week as well, right? Can we just do the bikeshed transition then?
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  487. # [22:27] * rikc is now known as cabanier
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  489. # [22:28] <jarek> Hi
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  491. # [22:28] <jarek> Is there any standardisation effort to introduce cursor manager API like CursorManager in Flash?
  492. # [22:29] <jarek> this API is important for rich desktop-like application
  493. # [22:33] <rubys> annevk: I should be back next week, yes.
  494. # [22:34] <tantek> jarek - what are your specific use-cases for cursors? i.e. what scenario in what kind of "desktop-like application"? can you be more specific?
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  496. # [22:36] <rubys> annevk: in case you didn't notice, I've tried to implement IDNA processing: http://intertwingly.net/projects/pegurl/idna.js I also found a unicode normalizer https://github.com/walling/unorm
  497. # [22:37] <tantek> jarek, for starters, perhaps check out the CSS 'cursor' property and what you need beyond that.
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  499. # [22:37] <jarek> tantek: simillar API is present in all desktop toolkits
  500. # [22:39] <jarek> tantek: for example, I have an app with a canvas widget and a slider widget. When cursor is over canvas I want to show "zoom" cursor, but when user drags the slider I want to change the cursor to "resize" (even if user drags the cursor over canvas)
  501. # [22:39] <jarek> tantek: for starters CSS is enough, but for complex desktop-like apps you need abstraction on top of it
  502. # [22:40] <jarek> that will allow you to register/unregister cursors and assign weights to them
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  518. # [22:56] <Hixie> so have you people seen this? https://www.w3.org/wiki/Webizen
  519. # [22:56] <Hixie> the w3c wants to come up with a way to even shake non-companies for money
  520. # [22:57] <annevk> rubys: oh cool
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  522. # [22:58] <tantek> Hixie, I think they offer a t-shirt
  523. # [22:58] <annevk> rubys: perhaps that makes it easier to work out a syntax production for valid domain names
  524. # [22:58] <Hixie> tantek: bloody expensive t-shirt
  525. # [22:59] <tantek> Hixie, people pay lots of money for branded clothing & accessories of various sorts
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  527. # [23:02] <jarek> "Add a line on the CV that shows commitment to the advances of Web standards" :)
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  529. # [23:03] <Hixie> i can't believe how brazen that is, even for the w3c
  530. # [23:03] <Hixie> i love how the goals section has all the w3c's goals first
  531. # [23:03] <Hixie> that's so symbolic
  532. # [23:04] <tantek> Hixie, IIRC it was in response to *requests* from some number of folks to be able to do that
  533. # [23:04] <rubys> annevk: disallowed code points are clearly a parse error. Would ignored and/or mapped code points be a recoverable parse error?
  534. # [23:04] <annevk> Hixie: I saw it, but it didn't make much sense...https://twitter.com/annevk/status/445628553556930560 Jeff himself said it best: "Valuable membership forces the price to be too high for this program."
  535. # [23:05] <annevk> rubys: what's the difference?
  536. # [23:05] <annevk> rubys: oh wait, you're talking conformance
  537. # [23:05] <rubys> annevk: yes
  538. # [23:05] <Hixie> tantek: man, i wish people would ask _us_ if they could send us money
  539. # [23:05] <Hixie> well, except for the tax implications
  540. # [23:06] <annevk> rubys: I still had the javascript URL in my mind, not IDNA
  541. # [23:06] <tantek> Hixie, you mean people haven't?
  542. # [23:06] <tantek> we've definitely gotten requests to accept donations at microformats.org and indiewebcamp.com
  543. # [23:06] <Hixie> oh man i have the best idea for a whatwg membership program
  544. # [23:06] <annevk> rubys: yeah, that sounds about right for IDNA
  545. # [23:06] <tantek> Hixie, you could print ID cards and hand them out ;)
  546. # [23:06] <Hixie> we ask people to write their address on an envelope, and to stamp the envelope
  547. # [23:06] <Hixie> then put some money on the envelope
  548. # [23:06] <Hixie> then post it
  549. # [23:06] <Hixie> er, in, not on
  550. # [23:07] <tantek> Hixie, what's an address?
  551. # [23:07] <tantek> Is that like a URL?
  552. # [23:07] <Hixie> it's a url for the physical web
  553. # [23:07] <tantek> what scheme does it use?
  554. # [23:07] <Hixie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Address_(geography)
  555. # [23:08] <Hixie> ("depends on the country")
  556. # [23:08] * tantek goes to create a wikipedia redirect thanks to bad auto-linker in Colloquy
  557. # [23:09] <rubys> annevk: possible exception: uppercase is mapped to lowercase. Would uppercase be conforming or not?
  558. # [23:09] <annevk> rubys: I guess we need to allow either ASCII or Unicode as input, perhaps if input is only ASCII, require ToASCII(ToUnicode(ToASCII(input))) === input and when it's Unicode require ToUnicode(ToASCII(input)) === input
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  560. # [23:09] <annevk> ooh
  561. # [23:10] <annevk> rubys: should probably not be
  562. # [23:10] <annevk> rubys: because IDNA2008 does not have such a mapping
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  564. # [23:10] <tantek> Hixie I don't see any address URL schemes defined in that page.
  565. # [23:10] <annevk> rubys: so the address would not be portable for "pure" IDNA2008 systems (if those would exist...)
  566. # [23:10] <tantek> Hixie, perhaps you meant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geo_URI ?
  567. # [23:10] <annevk> rubys: but if we start taking that into account things get tricky fast
  568. # [23:11] * tantek checks URL spec to see if it includes geo:
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  570. # [23:11] <tantek> apparently not.
  571. # [23:12] <annevk> tantek: URL specification defines infrastructure, not all URL types
  572. # [23:12] * Krinkle|detached is now known as Krinkle
  573. # [23:12] <tantek> annevk - seems to define parts of some URL schemes here: https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#urls
  574. # [23:13] <annevk> tantek: infrastructure unfortunately relies on knowledge of some scheme names
  575. # [23:13] <annevk> tantek: it's somewhere between XML and HTML at this point
  576. # [23:13] <tantek> is there a criteria about what needs to go into that table and not?
  577. # [23:14] <annevk> tantek: yeah, it's for legacy parsing rules basically
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  580. # [23:16] <annevk> anyway, you all have fun, nn
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  583. # [23:17] <tantek> Hixie perhaps you need to define an "adr:" address scheme for your "address" requests. Note that vCard4 has an "ADR:" property that sorta looks like it might fit your needs, perhaps you can extract and repurpose. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6350#section-6.3.1
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  586. # [23:18] <rubys> tantek: FYI http://intertwingly.net/projects/pegurl/url.html#url
  587. # [23:18] <jarek> Is UndoManager spec dead?
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  589. # [23:21] <Hixie> tantek: i was being deadpan to your facetious comments, sorry to confuse you :-P
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  594. # [23:25] <tantek> Hixie - it's ok, I'm easily confused, especially where web standards are concerned. :P
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  596. # [23:26] <tantek> so I just keep asking questions :)
  597. # [23:26] <tantek> rubys did you mean http://intertwingly.net/projects/pegurl/url.html#relative-scheme ?
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  599. # [23:27] <tantek> Hixie, also, addresses are a pain (almost as much as "person" formats), and people keep unnecessarily reinventing them in much worse versions than vCard.
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  602. # [23:32] <Hixie> tantek: vCard doesn't support chinese addresses :-(
  603. # [23:32] <tantek> Hixie, oh? Thought it did.
  604. # [23:32] <Hixie> tantek: we had to extend it in html's autocomplete stuff
  605. # [23:33] <tantek> any particular Chinese addresses you had trouble encoding?
  606. # [23:33] <Hixie> any with more than two locality/region fields
  607. # [23:33] <tantek> Hixie, hence the cardinality of those fields changed in vCard4
  608. # [23:33] <tantek> you can have more than one
  609. # [23:33] <Hixie> ah, cool, same thing we did in autocomplete basically
  610. # [23:33] * Quits: Smylers (~smylers@host86-147-46-136.range86-147.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  611. # [23:33] <Hixie> (though limited to 4)
  612. # [23:33] <tantek> yes. fixed years ago.
  613. # [23:34] <tantek> for an email-list-only based standard, vCard4 is not bad, and definitely a big improvement over vCard3 in many ways.
  614. # [23:36] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Quit: jarek)
  615. # [23:37] <Hixie> well except that it's versioned and specced in a snapshot format :-P
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  619. # [23:49] * heycam|away is now known as heycam|away|away
  620. # [23:49] * heycam|away|away is now known as heycam|away
  621. # [23:50] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
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  626. # [23:58] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@62-78-246-79.bb.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  627. # Session Close: Tue Nov 11 00:00:00 2014

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