/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-12-01 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Dec 01 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  89. # [06:39] <MikeSmith> https://github.com/webspecs/url/issues/6
  90. # [06:40] <MikeSmith> ABNF ALL THE THINGS!!
  91. # [06:41] <MikeSmith> but.. "these rules are NOT regular" https://github.com/webspecs/url/issues/6#issuecomment-65014005
  92. # [06:43] <MikeSmith> OK then, ABNF *SOME OF THE THINGS!! https://github.com/webspecs/url/issues/6#issuecomment-65014477
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  95. # [06:45] <MikeSmith> "it would be actively misleading to present ABNF as the normative mechanism, and furthermore, it would be unproductive to lead people to believe that such grammar could be used by an ABNF pipeline"
  96. # [06:45] <MikeSmith> bravo
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  98. # [06:49] <MikeSmith> "as an implementor, I don't see anything that's going to be beneficial for writing an implementation" vs the spec stating "These railroad diagrams, as modified by the accompanying text, define grammar production rules for URLs"
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  100. # [06:51] <MikeSmith> implementing the parsing and serializing algorithms defined in the normative prose of the spec is what's "beneficial for writing an implementation"
  101. # [06:52] <MikeSmith> the railroad diagrams don't define implementation requirements for any conformance class at all
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  104. # [06:54] <MikeSmith> hmm or am I wrong and that's now how the spec defines the parsing algorithm
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  120. # [08:04] <MikeSmith> Domenic: I'm starting to wonder if attempting to define implementation requirements through a combination of a (regular) formalism plus (non-regular) processing steps isn't the worst of both worlds
  121. # [08:05] <Domenic> MikeSmith: yeah, I am in the same boat
  122. # [08:05] <Domenic> MikeSmith: did you see my https://github.com/webspecs/url/issues/5#issuecomment-65026820 ?
  123. # [08:05] <MikeSmith> Domenic: no, didn't see it yet
  124. # [08:05] <MikeSmith> looking now
  125. # [08:06] <Domenic> it might be a bit clearer, unsure
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  128. # [08:06] <Domenic> it makes it clear that the railroad diagram parsing is just step 1 of a multi-step process.
  129. # [08:07] <MikeSmith> yeah I think it's clearer
  130. # [08:07] <MikeSmith> as far as what you commented on in the existing spec, yeah, "fuzzy" is a good way to describe it
  131. # [08:08] <MikeSmith> would be nice to get more (browser) implementor feedback on what's there in the spec now
  132. # [08:08] <Domenic> yeah :(
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  134. # [08:09] <MikeSmith> I doubt many UA implementors have actually looked it much, or at least not with an eye toward trying to imagine writing code based on it
  135. # [08:09] <MikeSmith> I hadn't myself until an hour or so ago
  136. # [08:10] <MikeSmith> myself I didn't think what annevk had in the spec (before this rewrite) was particularly hard to follow or implement from
  137. # [08:10] <Domenic> agreed!
  138. # [08:11] <MikeSmith> so I'm not sure this rewrite is solving any problems for the right people
  139. # [08:11] <MikeSmith> though it may be solving problems for some others
  140. # [08:12] <MikeSmith> anyway, I'll try to remain positive and open-minded, and try to give some concrete constructive feedback
  141. # [08:12] <Domenic> our daily struggle :)
  142. # [08:12] <MikeSmith> well for this at least I think on the issue comments you're already saying most I what I'd attempt to
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  149. # [08:26] <sussane> Indonesia please...
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  182. # [09:57] <zcorpan> has tc39 still not specified __defineGetter__ ?
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  217. # [11:31] <zcorpan> my knee-jerk reaction to url railroads is that i prefer the algorithm style, but it may be that it's what i'm used to. i have never tried to implement or test a railroad spec (url is the first that i know)
  218. # [11:32] <zcorpan> but as far as algorithm vs. BNF-style grammar goes, i much prefer specs that use algorithms
  219. # [11:32] <zcorpan> i find it easier to reason about and make sure the implementation matches what the spec says
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  225. # [11:45] <zcorpan> it could be that specs that use grammars have historically also left many details and error handling undefined, which skews my taste
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  227. # [11:56] <Ms2ger> Are they normative in URL?
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  230. # [12:07] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: in Sam's rewrite yeah the URL railroad diagrams normatively define parsing behavior, sometimes in combination with a few algorithmic steps after a particular diagram
  231. # [12:08] <MikeSmith> I haven't yet looked in detail at if/how they define error handling
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  244. # [12:37] <zcorpan> foolip: i have grep results for cdata+xhtml if you're interested
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  252. # [13:03] <zcorpan> foolip: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/bf63359fc7d45f16effc
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  280. # [14:56] <zcorpan> seems like MediaQueryList exposes when layout happens. so we need to specify what flushes layout and what blocks layout
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  282. # [14:56] <zcorpan> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/3323
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  285. # [15:06] <MikeSmith> does a web socket server need to run on a privileged port?
  286. # [15:07] <MikeSmith> (wondering why the default ws: port in web-platform-tests config file is 82)
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  288. # [15:10] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: no
  289. # [15:11] <SteveF_> TabAtkins: hi, more bikeshed: can I add a <script src="blah"> to a .bs file?
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  292. # [15:13] <zcorpan> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/3324 - gecko seems to fire resize events sync when flushing layout while blink/webkit fire it later
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  295. # [15:21] <zcorpan> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/3325 - gecko/blink/webkit all invoke requestAnimationFrame later. i guess resize should do the same
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  297. # [15:23] <zcorpan> wonder if it makes sense to avoid painting on a flushed layout. does anyone do that?
  298. # [15:29] <zcorpan> foolip: if you want to search in httparchive, it could be interesting to search for something like "([^/]/|[\"'])<\!\[CDATA\[" to find literal regexes and strings that start with <![CDATA[. on github i saw a few of those but they were mostly using xhr.responseText
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  311. # [16:11] <TabAtkins> SteveF_: Yes. Just make sure the element is on its own line, or Bikeshed might not recognize it, and will attempt to do autolinking on the contents.
  312. # [16:11] <SteveF_> thanks!
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  397. # [19:56] <Domenic> TabAtkins: ping https://github.com/tabatkins/bikeshed/pull/288
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  399. # [19:59] <TabAtkins> Domenic: Some people have been on vacation all weekend
  400. # [19:59] <Domenic> pssshaw
  401. # [20:01] <TabAtkins> And by "some people" I mean me, and by "on vacation" I mean playing DA:I
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  429. # [21:05] <allam2002> can any one help me to register a new meta to whatwg
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  554. # Session Close: Tue Dec 02 00:00:00 2014

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