/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2014-12-30 / end

Options:

Previous day, Next day

  1. # Session Start: Tue Dec 30 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:02] * Quits: Maurice` (copyman@5ED5617C.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  4. # [00:08] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@64.122.149.122)
  5. # [00:20] * Quits: satazor_ (~satazor@a213-22-1-7.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  6. # [00:25] * Quits: ivan\ (~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  7. # [00:25] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@a213-22-1-7.cpe.netcabo.pt)
  8. # [00:29] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-197-247.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com) (Quit: tantek)
  9. # [00:32] * Joins: ivan\ (~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001)
  10. # [00:35] * Quits: thinkxl (~thinkxl@2601:e:2980:cb00:a5f0:478b:3362:2d13) (Quit: (null))
  11. # [00:35] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@2001:450:1f:224:70eb:af92:f43f:b7cc) (Remote host closed the connection)
  12. # [00:43] * Quits: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@64.122.149.122) (Remote host closed the connection)
  13. # [00:46] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@98.234.191.242)
  14. # [00:47] * Joins: jyasskin (~jyasskin@172.56.40.230)
  15. # [00:47] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@98.234.191.242) (Client Quit)
  16. # [00:53] * Quits: bnicholson2 (~bnicholso@pool-173-53-19-95.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  17. # [01:01] * Quits: danbri (~Adium@cable-146-255-145-168.dynamic.telemach.ba) (Quit: Leaving.)
  18. # [01:03] * Joins: sicking_ (~sicking@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  19. # [01:03] * Quits: sicking_ (~sicking@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Client Quit)
  20. # [01:05] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  21. # [01:11] * Quits: jyasskin (~jyasskin@172.56.40.230) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  22. # [01:24] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@98.234.191.242)
  23. # [01:38] * Joins: Una (~Una@pool-108-15-96-3.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net)
  24. # [01:57] * Joins: danbri (~Adium@cable-146-255-145-168.dynamic.telemach.ba)
  25. # [01:58] * Quits: jsx (uid48919@fsf/intern/jsx) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  26. # [01:59] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@208.65.52.101) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  27. # [02:01] * Joins: ohaibbq (~ohaibbq@173-24-73-20.client.mchsi.com)
  28. # [02:01] * Quits: danbri (~Adium@cable-146-255-145-168.dynamic.telemach.ba) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  29. # [02:07] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@208.65.52.101)
  30. # [02:21] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@208.65.52.101) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  31. # [02:24] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@a213-22-1-7.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  32. # [02:25] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  33. # [02:30] * Quits: ivan\ (~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  34. # [02:32] * Joins: ivan\ (~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001)
  35. # [02:38] * Quits: ivan\ (~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  36. # [02:38] * Joins: ivan\ (~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001)
  37. # [02:39] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-197-247.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com)
  38. # [02:47] * Quits: ambv (~ambv@199.201.64.134) (Quit: sys.exit(0) # app closed)
  39. # [02:59] * Quits: abinader (sid21713@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gwsbndicsixpwwxd)
  40. # [03:11] * Quits: Zebra111_ (~quassel@sydnns0115w-156057001250.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOp.ns.bellaliant.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  41. # [03:11] * Joins: Zebra111 (~quassel@sydnns0115w-156057001250.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOp.ns.bellaliant.net)
  42. # [03:13] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@170.75.129.223)
  43. # [03:28] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  44. # [03:31] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@210.213.57.70)
  45. # [03:32] * Joins: mven (~textual@72.183.104.138)
  46. # [03:39] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@210.213.57.70) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  47. # [03:40] * Quits: Una (~Una@pool-108-15-96-3.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  48. # [03:40] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@210.213.57.70)
  49. # [03:46] * Quits: seventh (seventh@31.6.12.76) (Remote host closed the connection)
  50. # [03:49] * Quits: say2joe (~Adium@198-101-119-107.static-ip.telepacific.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  51. # [03:57] * Joins: jyasskin (~jyasskin@172.56.8.147)
  52. # [04:00] * Joins: Goplat (~goplat@reactos/developer/Goplat)
  53. # [04:00] * Joins: boogyman (~boogyman@2601:0:b801:ad00:533:4798:c644:c1a3)
  54. # [04:00] * Quits: boogyman (~boogyman@2601:0:b801:ad00:533:4798:c644:c1a3) (Changing host)
  55. # [04:00] * Joins: boogyman (~boogyman@pdpc/supporter/professional/boogyman)
  56. # [04:05] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  57. # [04:08] * Joins: bnicholson2 (~bnicholso@pool-173-53-19-95.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net)
  58. # [04:09] * Joins: Mso150 (~ctlM@217.118.64.44)
  59. # [04:16] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Quit: sicking)
  60. # [04:20] * Quits: Garbee (uid21171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yxshkwzjnqcsnqwm) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  61. # [04:20] * Quits: ato (sid16069@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-agzxnyibqhbzcdlg) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  62. # [04:22] * Joins: Garbee (uid21171@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pudafwdrmbdathbl)
  63. # [04:23] * Joins: ato (sid16069@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ihiafskxkhfjekek)
  64. # [04:31] * Quits: jyasskin (~jyasskin@172.56.8.147) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  65. # [04:52] * Quits: Mso150 (~ctlM@217.118.64.44) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  66. # [05:20] * Quits: mven (~textual@72.183.104.138) (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
  67. # [05:21] * Quits: igoroliveira (uid20755@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-adinsnuirrgocxfi) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  68. # [05:54] * Quits: gavinc (~gavin@62f6-6117-e182-e20e-030d-4002-3420-2062.6rd.ip6.sonic.net) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
  69. # [06:13] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@103.249.181.147)
  70. # [06:15] * Quits: psy (~psy@103.6.159.170) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  71. # [06:22] * Joins: psy (~psy@103.6.159.170)
  72. # [06:24] * Joins: jyasskin (~jyasskin@172.56.31.249)
  73. # [06:36] * Joins: kapil__ (uid36151@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-udvgcfznccjbkevi)
  74. # [06:39] * Quits: psy (~psy@103.6.159.170) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  75. # [06:41] * Joins: psy (~psy@103.6.159.170)
  76. # [07:09] * Quits: KevinMarks_ (~yaaic@c-67-164-14-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  77. # [07:10] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-72-94-213-135.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  78. # [07:19] * Quits: jyasskin (~jyasskin@172.56.31.249) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  79. # [07:47] * Quits: ohaibbq (~ohaibbq@173-24-73-20.client.mchsi.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
  80. # [08:05] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  81. # [08:14] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@170.75.129.223)
  82. # [08:32] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@170.75.129.223) (Quit: ZZZzzz…)
  83. # [08:43] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@98.234.191.242) (Quit: weinig)
  84. # [08:44] * Joins: ^esc_ (~esc-ape@178.165.130.224.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
  85. # [08:45] * Quits: ^esc (~esc-ape@77.119.131.201.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  86. # [08:47] * Joins: danbri (~Adium@cable-146-255-145-168.dynamic.telemach.ba)
  87. # [08:47] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@77.sub-70-209-204.myvzw.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  88. # [08:48] * Quits: Goplat (~goplat@reactos/developer/Goplat) (Remote host closed the connection)
  89. # [08:53] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@77.sub-70-209-204.myvzw.com)
  90. # [08:54] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@77.sub-70-209-204.myvzw.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  91. # [08:57] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@77.sub-70-209-204.myvzw.com)
  92. # [09:16] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  93. # [09:19] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@2001:cb0:b202:232:2677:3ff:fece:dc64) (Remote host closed the connection)
  94. # [09:29] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  95. # [09:30] * Joins: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si)
  96. # [09:34] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@121-99-139-21.bng1.tvc.orcon.net.nz)
  97. # [09:35] * Joins: casatt (~casatt@94.137.157.157)
  98. # [09:36] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@d54C506D6.access.telenet.be)
  99. # [09:58] * Joins: KevinMarks_ (~yaaic@c-67-164-14-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  100. # [10:11] * Joins: Mso150 (~ctlM@217.118.64.33)
  101. # [10:14] * Quits: KevinMarks_ (~yaaic@c-67-164-14-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  102. # [10:16] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@210.213.57.70) (Quit: จรลี จรลา)
  103. # [10:19] * Joins: KevinMarks_ (~yaaic@c-67-164-14-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  104. # [10:26] * Joins: Maurice` (copyman@unaffiliated/maurice)
  105. # [10:32] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@bl17-152-158.dsl.telepac.pt)
  106. # [10:44] * Joins: iandevlin (~iandevlin@dslb-178-009-086-178.178.009.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
  107. # [10:55] * Joins: jsx (uid48919@fsf/intern/jsx)
  108. # [11:05] * Quits: iandevlin (~iandevlin@dslb-178-009-086-178.178.009.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  109. # [11:06] * Joins: iandevlin (~iandevlin@dslb-088-078-251-110.088.078.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
  110. # [11:15] * Quits: casatt (~casatt@94.137.157.157) (Quit: Leaving)
  111. # [11:16] * Guest98549 is now known as Areks
  112. # [11:18] * Joins: espadrine` (~ttyl@LMontsouris-656-1-2-84.w80-12.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  113. # [11:21] * Joins: svl (~me@p54880BE6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  114. # [11:22] * Quits: hgl (~hgl@unaffiliated/hgl) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  115. # [11:22] * Joins: hgl (~hgl@unaffiliated/hgl)
  116. # [11:23] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@77.sub-70-209-204.myvzw.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  117. # [11:37] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@77.sub-70-209-204.myvzw.com)
  118. # [11:48] * Quits: hgl (~hgl@unaffiliated/hgl) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  119. # [11:49] * Joins: hgl (~hgl@unaffiliated/hgl)
  120. # [11:50] * Quits: svl (~me@p54880BE6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  121. # [11:53] * Quits: Mso150 (~ctlM@217.118.64.33) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  122. # [13:25] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@bl17-152-158.dsl.telepac.pt) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  123. # [13:25] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@bl17-152-158.dsl.telepac.pt)
  124. # [13:25] * Quits: iandevlin (~iandevlin@dslb-088-078-251-110.088.078.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  125. # [13:27] * Joins: iandevlin (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
  126. # [14:00] * Quits: hswolff (~hswolff@cpe-74-68-123-30.nyc.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  127. # [14:02] * Joins: hswolff (~hswolff@cpe-74-68-123-30.nyc.res.rr.com)
  128. # [14:16] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@77.sub-70-209-204.myvzw.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  129. # [14:24] * Joins: abinader (sid21713@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-luaiogxwyekwttkb)
  130. # [14:26] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@208.65.52.101)
  131. # [14:34] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@103.249.181.147) (Remote host closed the connection)
  132. # [14:40] * Joins: iandevlin2 (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
  133. # [14:41] * Quits: kapil__ (uid36151@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-udvgcfznccjbkevi) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  134. # [14:44] * Quits: iandevlin (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  135. # [14:51] * Quits: iandevlin2 (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  136. # [14:53] * Quits: jtcranme1 (~jcranmer@ras1.csl.tjhsst.edu) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  137. # [15:02] <MikeSmith> Domenic: dunno if you ever saw https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI/DesignGuidelines but it seems like something you appreciate and maybe have refinements to suggest
  138. # [15:05] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-nhs.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net)
  139. # [15:07] * Joins: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@101.61.161.113)
  140. # [15:09] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-72-94-213-135.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
  141. # [15:09] * Quits: BigBangUDR (~Thunderbi@101.61.161.113) (Client Quit)
  142. # [15:18] * Joins: igoroliveira (uid20755@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dujumuhyctzhfywq)
  143. # [15:23] * Quits: halfline (rstrode@nat/redhat/x-mdyhnuazffqaglti) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  144. # [15:24] * Joins: iandevlin (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
  145. # [15:37] * Joins: TallTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  146. # [15:39] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@87-93-49-217.bb.dnainternet.fi)
  147. # [15:53] * Joins: iandevlin2 (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
  148. # [15:55] * Quits: iandevlin (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  149. # [15:56] <tantek> MikeSmith - hopefully you appreciate it too!
  150. # [15:56] <MikeSmith> tantek: sure
  151. # [15:56] * Joins: iandevlin (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
  152. # [15:57] * Quits: iandevlin2 (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  153. # [15:57] * Quits: hgl (~hgl@unaffiliated/hgl) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  154. # [15:58] <MikeSmith> tantek: btw I've been thinking a bit lately about the concept of "permissionless innovation" that's been used a lot this year
  155. # [15:58] * Joins: hgl (~hgl@unaffiliated/hgl)
  156. # [15:58] <tantek> MikeSmith - seems like a fairly broad term
  157. # [15:58] <MikeSmith> e.g., in the NetMundial literature
  158. # [15:58] <MikeSmith> https://www.netmundial.org/principles
  159. # [15:58] * Joins: encryptd_fractl (~encryptd_@c-75-73-209-45.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
  160. # [15:59] <MikeSmith> tantek: for the more specific context, see http://www.internetsociety.org/blog/tech-matters/2014/04/permissionless-innovation-openness-not-anarchy
  161. # [15:59] * Quits: hgl (~hgl@unaffiliated/hgl) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  162. # [15:59] <MikeSmith> anyway I've been thinking about it in the more specific context of the W3C document license
  163. # [15:59] * Joins: hgl (~hgl@unaffiliated/hgl)
  164. # [15:59] <tantek> I am skeptical about netmundial as I am about openstand
  165. # [16:00] <tantek> neither was developed according to their own principles of transparency, and openness of the process by which their principles etc. were discussed and developed
  166. # [16:00] <MikeSmith> well the W3C is aligned somewhat with both netmundial and openstand, as you know
  167. # [16:00] * Quits: hgl (~hgl@unaffiliated/hgl) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  168. # [16:01] <MikeSmith> but anyway I find it hard to reconcile the W3C document license with that "permissionless innovation" principle
  169. # [16:01] * Joins: hgl (~hgl@unaffiliated/hgl)
  170. # [16:01] <MikeSmith> and I would think anybody else would find it hard to reconcile
  171. # [16:01] <tantek> agreed on that point
  172. # [16:03] <tantek> I'm more annoyed with the use of openstand as a stick in the normative reference policy, and thus excuse to exclude references to WHATWG (or other community standards) documents
  173. # [16:03] <MikeSmith> tantek: yeah me too, very much so
  174. # [16:03] <Ms2ger> Is that rubys' thing?
  175. # [16:04] <MikeSmith> that tactic runs counter to the spirit of what openstand is supposed to be about
  176. # [16:04] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: what? openstand?
  177. # [16:04] <Ms2ger> Yeah
  178. # [16:04] <tantek> MikeSmith thus I have taken the approach of questioning openstand itself
  179. # [16:04] <tantek> being inconsistent with its own principles
  180. # [16:05] <tantek> Ms2ger we don't know who is behind openstand because its development was/is not transparent, in direct contradiction with its own principles.
  181. # [16:05] <tantek> "who" meaning people, not virtual organizations
  182. # [16:06] <MikeSmith> tantek: Pointing out internal inconsistencies in openstand makes sense. But I think it's also productive to point out cases where those advocating for everybody to adhere to openstand are not adhering to it themselves. And the case of "permissionless innovation" is a case of that, I think
  183. # [16:07] <tantek> MikeSmith - yes the Netmundial thing is more interesting - there's a bit more provenance / names of people there
  184. # [16:07] <MikeSmith> yeah
  185. # [16:07] <MikeSmith> anyway, specifically, nobody should need to ask permission to innovate by experimenting with creating a new version of particular web standard, and publishing it and attempting to get it implemented and standarizied
  186. # [16:07] <tantek> but openstand just looks like an obfuscating layer of abstraction
  187. # [16:07] <tantek> yeah - agreed on experimenting like that
  188. # [16:08] <MikeSmith> well the W3C document license discourages exactly that kind of experimentation
  189. # [16:08] <tantek> indeed
  190. # [16:08] <MikeSmith> a chilling effect, even
  191. # [16:08] <tantek> yes
  192. # [16:09] <MikeSmith> I think it would be wortwhile for the AB to consider it in those terms
  193. # [16:11] <gsnedders> "But what can we do to get such Innovators to be Members?"
  194. # [16:12] <gsnedders> YOU'RE DEVALUING OUR INVESTMENT IN W3C MEMBERSHIP FEES!
  195. # [16:12] * Joins: ehsan_ (~ehsan@24-212-206-173.cable.teksavvy.com)
  196. # [16:14] * Joins: jtcranmer (~jcranmer@ras1.csl.tjhsst.edu)
  197. # [16:34] * Joins: thinkxl (~thinkxl@2601:e:2980:cb00:2858:c856:897c:bad4)
  198. # [16:46] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@98.234.191.242)
  199. # [16:56] <tantek> MikeSmith - part of the challenge is it's not just the AB, but rather the AC, or certain outspoken AC members
  200. # [17:00] <MikeSmith> tantek: sure but the AB is a level of governance beyond the AC, and has responsibility for holding the W3C accountable to its principles even in the face of face of AC members who want the W3C to do things that aren't consistent with those principles
  201. # [17:01] * Joins: mven (~textual@32.97.110.56)
  202. # [17:01] <tantek> the document license advocates typically trump up 'consensus' as the w3c principle that they're defending
  203. # [17:01] * Quits: mven (~textual@32.97.110.56) (Excess Flood)
  204. # [17:01] <tantek> against the wild wild non-consensus west of whatwg and anyone else apparently
  205. # [17:04] * Quits: iandevlin (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  206. # [17:08] * Joins: iandevlin (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
  207. # [17:29] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-nhs.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  208. # [17:30] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-1czy.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net)
  209. # [17:31] <MikeSmith> tantek: core principles trump consensus
  210. # [17:31] <MikeSmith> and I realize I'm preaching to the choir
  211. # [17:31] <tantek> MikeSmith, they think consensus is a core principle
  212. # [17:34] * Joins: xiinotulp (~plutoniix@node-1dup.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net)
  213. # [17:35] <MikeSmith> sure but anybody reasonable would agree that if a consensus emerged from the AC that conflicted with other core principles then the problem is with the AC and not other core principles
  214. # [17:36] <MikeSmith> regardless it's a moot point in the case of the document license, because no actual consensus has emerged from the AC about it
  215. # [17:36] <MikeSmith> or actually that's wrong
  216. # [17:37] <MikeSmith> the consensus that's emerged from the AC about it is that the vast majority of the AC don't feel strongly about it either way
  217. # [17:37] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@node-1czy.pool-101-108.dynamic.totbb.net) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  218. # [17:38] <MikeSmith> and so instead what's been allowed to happen is that a very small handful of vocal anti-free-license advocates in the AC have been allowed to set the position
  219. # [17:39] * xiinotulp is now known as plutoniix
  220. # [17:41] <Ms2ger> Now that's a first at the W3C
  221. # [17:48] * Quits: KevinMarks_ (~yaaic@c-67-164-14-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  222. # [17:48] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@5ED376C5.cm-7-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  223. # [17:48] * Quits: abinader (sid21713@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-luaiogxwyekwttkb)
  224. # [17:52] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@77.sub-70-209-204.myvzw.com)
  225. # [17:53] * Joins: iandevlin2 (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
  226. # [17:53] * Joins: ohaibbq (~ohaibbq@38.102.49.4)
  227. # [17:54] * Quits: iandevlin (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  228. # [17:54] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@87-93-49-217.bb.dnainternet.fi) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  229. # [17:58] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@77.sub-70-209-204.myvzw.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  230. # [18:00] * Quits: iandevlin2 (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  231. # [18:01] * Joins: iandevlin (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
  232. # [18:01] * Joins: aho (~nya@fuld-d9336777.pool.mediaWays.net)
  233. # [18:08] * Quits: iandevlin (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  234. # [18:09] * Joins: iandevlin (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
  235. # [18:26] * Joins: jyasskin (~jyasskin@172.56.8.144)
  236. # [18:27] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-77.38.31.63.cable.t-1.si) (Quit: Leaving.)
  237. # [18:27] * Quits: iandevlin (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  238. # [18:27] * Joins: iandevlin (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
  239. # [18:28] * Quits: psy (~psy@103.6.159.170) (Remote host closed the connection)
  240. # [18:35] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@208.65.52.101) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  241. # [18:37] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@5ED376C5.cm-7-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  242. # [18:37] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@208.65.52.101)
  243. # [18:40] * Joins: josemanuel (~josemanue@169.Red-88-27-1.staticIP.rima-tde.net)
  244. # [18:41] * Quits: iandevlin (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  245. # [18:42] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@208.65.52.101) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  246. # [18:42] * Quits: ohaibbq (~ohaibbq@38.102.49.4) (Quit: Leaving...)
  247. # [18:46] * Joins: satazor_ (~satazor@bl17-152-158.dsl.telepac.pt)
  248. # [18:50] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@bl17-152-158.dsl.telepac.pt) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  249. # [18:50] * Quits: satazor_ (~satazor@bl17-152-158.dsl.telepac.pt) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  250. # [18:53] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@170.75.129.223)
  251. # [18:55] * Quits: hgl (~hgl@unaffiliated/hgl) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  252. # [18:57] * Quits: TallTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  253. # [18:58] * Joins: hgl (~hgl@unaffiliated/hgl)
  254. # [19:00] * Joins: iandevlin (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
  255. # [19:00] * Joins: gavinc (~gavin@28e4-e6a6-e739-4714-030d-4002-3420-2062.6rd.ip6.sonic.net)
  256. # [19:05] * Quits: iandevlin (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  257. # [19:05] * Quits: josemanuel (~josemanue@169.Red-88-27-1.staticIP.rima-tde.net) (Quit: Saliendo)
  258. # [19:06] * Joins: iandevlin (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
  259. # [19:07] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@d28-23-115-197.dim.wideopenwest.com)
  260. # [19:11] * Quits: espadrine` (~ttyl@LMontsouris-656-1-2-84.w80-12.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  261. # [19:12] * Joins: Mso150 (~ctlM@80.83.239.61)
  262. # [19:13] * Joins: ohaibbq (~ohaibbq@38.102.49.4)
  263. # [19:31] * Quits: tav (~tav`@host31-52-143-59.range31-52.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: tav)
  264. # [19:37] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  265. # [19:38] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@5ED376C5.cm-7-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  266. # [19:38] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@208.65.52.101)
  267. # [19:42] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@5ED376C5.cm-7-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  268. # [19:44] * Joins: KevinMarks_ (~yaaic@c-67-164-14-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  269. # [19:51] * Quits: ohaibbq (~ohaibbq@38.102.49.4) (Quit: Leaving...)
  270. # [20:00] * Joins: jyasskin_ (~jyasskin@172.56.39.201)
  271. # [20:00] * Quits: jyasskin (~jyasskin@172.56.8.144) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  272. # [20:05] * Joins: mven (~textual@72.183.104.138)
  273. # [20:11] * Quits: mven (~textual@72.183.104.138) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
  274. # [20:11] * Quits: jyasskin_ (~jyasskin@172.56.39.201) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  275. # [20:13] * Quits: iandevlin (~iandevlin@dslb-178-006-166-218.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
  276. # [20:14] * Joins: mven (~textual@72.183.104.138)
  277. # [20:17] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@98.234.191.242) (Quit: weinig)
  278. # [20:19] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@208.65.52.101) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  279. # [20:21] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@d54C506D6.access.telenet.be) (Quit: nn)
  280. # [20:27] * Joins: danbri1 (~Adium@74.125.122.49)
  281. # [20:30] * Quits: danbri (~Adium@cable-146-255-145-168.dynamic.telemach.ba) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  282. # [20:39] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@5ED376C5.cm-7-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  283. # [20:44] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@5ED376C5.cm-7-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  284. # [20:44] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@208.65.52.101)
  285. # [20:55] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@a213-22-1-7.cpe.netcabo.pt)
  286. # [20:57] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@151.sub-70-209-233.myvzw.com)
  287. # [20:58] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@151.sub-70-209-233.myvzw.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  288. # [20:59] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@151.sub-70-209-233.myvzw.com)
  289. # [21:00] * Quits: Mso150 (~ctlM@80.83.239.61) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  290. # [21:03] * Joins: Mso150 (~ctlM@80.83.238.63)
  291. # [21:20] * Quits: igoroliveira (uid20755@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dujumuhyctzhfywq) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  292. # [21:25] * Quits: satazor (~satazor@a213-22-1-7.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  293. # [21:29] * Quits: caitp (~caitp@208.65.52.101) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  294. # [21:30] * Joins: igoroliveira (uid20755@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dmlmpzmmohemtwha)
  295. # [21:36] * Joins: ohaibbq (~ohaibbq@38.102.49.4)
  296. # [21:41] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@5ED376C5.cm-7-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  297. # [21:42] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@170.75.129.223)
  298. # [21:46] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@5ED376C5.cm-7-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  299. # [21:49] * Joins: caitp (~caitp@208.65.52.101)
  300. # [21:59] * Quits: ohaibbq (~ohaibbq@38.102.49.4) (Quit: Leaving...)
  301. # [22:16] * Quits: sicking (~sicking@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com) (Quit: sicking)
  302. # [22:19] * Joins: TallTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  303. # [22:22] * Quits: Mso150 (~ctlM@80.83.238.63) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  304. # [22:22] * Joins: Mso150 (~ctlM@80.83.239.105)
  305. # [22:35] * Quits: danbri1 (~Adium@74.125.122.49) (Quit: Leaving.)
  306. # [22:38] * Joins: satazor (~satazor@a213-22-1-7.cpe.netcabo.pt)
  307. # [22:42] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@5ED376C5.cm-7-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  308. # [22:45] * Joins: danbri (~Adium@cable-146-255-145-168.dynamic.telemach.ba)
  309. # [22:46] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@5ED376C5.cm-7-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  310. # [22:47] * Joins: sicking (~sicking@corp-nat.p2p.sfo1.mozilla.com)
  311. # [22:50] * Quits: TallTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  312. # [23:00] * Joins: bholley (~bholley@170.75.129.223)
  313. # [23:13] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@121-99-139-21.bng1.tvc.orcon.net.nz) (Remote host closed the connection)
  314. # [23:24] * Quits: Mso150 (~ctlM@80.83.239.105) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  315. # [23:34] * Quits: bholley (~bholley@170.75.129.223)
  316. # [23:40] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-197-247.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com) (Quit: tantek)
  317. # [23:53] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-72-94-213-135.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  318. # [23:54] * Quits: Maurice` (copyman@unaffiliated/maurice)
  319. # Session Close: Wed Dec 31 00:00:00 2014

Previous day, Next day

Think these logs are useful? Then please donate to show your gratitude (and keep them up, of course). Thanks! — Krijn