/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2015-01-07 / end

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# Session Start: Wed Jan 07 00:00:00 2015
# Session Ident: #whatwg
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# [00:24] <dmurph> test
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# [00:35] <caitp> > @WHATWG tweets a URL, it is at least 5-10 minutes before URL actually points to something interesting
# [00:35] <caitp> okay, 2 minutes this time
# [00:36] <Hixie_> i think that's because it takes that long to update github
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# [03:06] <MikeSmith> didn't know yet about SlimerJS http://slimerjs.org/
# [03:06] <MikeSmith> SlimerJS is similar to PhantomJs, except that it runs on top of Gecko, the browser engine of Mozilla Firefox (specifically, version 31), instead of Webkit, and is not yet truly headless.
# [03:07] <MikeSmith> Hixie_: Happy New Year
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# [06:54] <hemanth> Came here looking for a decent use-case/example of Reflect API...
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# [06:59] <hemanth> Wonder if the Streams API implementation has begun...
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# [07:05] <hemanth> dbaron: meow
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# [07:09] <caitp> hemanth, it looks like a way to invoke internal methods ([[....]] methods), but a lot of it should be more or less equivalent to static methods of Object
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# [07:10] <caitp> not sure what the use-case is though
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# [07:17] <hemanth_> caitp: interesting, bumped into Reflect.defineProperty(obj, name, desc)
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# [07:20] <hemanth_> they gel well with proxies
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# [07:23] <terinjokes> anyone have any ideas why SSE isn't more popular?
# [07:25] <caitp> i'm guessing you don't mean intel's SIMD stuff
# [07:25] <caitp> and therefore don't know what you mean
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# [07:37] <terinjokes> sorry, Server Sent Events / EventSource
# [07:38] <caitp> IE11 not supporting it likely has something to do with it
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# [08:46] <MikeSmith> terinjokes: sse predates web sockets and webrtc datachannel and for most use cases those supersede it
# [08:47] <terinjokes> MikeSmith: that seems like it's true only for bi-directional communication, no?
# [08:49] <MikeSmith> terinjokes: well cleraly there's nothing that requires you do bi-directional communication over a web sockets connection. You can use it to push stuff if you wan
# [08:49] <terinjokes> true, but I would say they solve a different use case, rather than supersede
# [08:50] <terinjokes> both are a different language than HTTP, no?
# [08:50] <MikeSmith> SSE isn't
# [08:51] <MikeSmith> and as far as the UA implementors POV and can understand them not wanting to implement SSE if they already support web sockets
# [08:51] <MikeSmith> and web sockets are supported basically everywhere now, in all UAs afaik
# [08:51] <MikeSmith> as far as browser engines
# [08:52] <MikeSmith> well not Presto
# [08:52] <MikeSmith> but I'll sure they'll get there too eventually
# [08:52] <MikeSmith> ah I mean Servo
# [08:52] <MikeSmith> Jon-gian slip there
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# [09:21] <terinjokes> MikeSmith: i mean websockets and webrtc being not HTTP
# [09:21] <terinjokes> whereas SSE is
# [09:21] <terinjokes> and SSE is supported everywhere but IE
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# [09:28] <MikeSmith> ah
# [09:28] <MikeSmith> yeah fair enough
# [09:29] <MikeSmith> and I didn't know SSE was now supported everywhere but IE
# [09:30] <MikeSmith> that's a pretty good argument for IE to add support for it I guess
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# [11:04] <annevk> wanderview: it's not entirely clear to me what the scenario is; we shouldn't collect the response just because the page has not inspected it yet though
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# [12:37] <smaug____> hmm, what should happen when there is an attribute type Window, but that Window isn't the current Window of the WindowProxy?
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# [12:40] <smaug____> Hixie: ^
# [12:40] <annevk> smaug____: elaborate?
# [12:40] <smaug____> I mean in the scripts
# [12:40] <smaug____> accessing such attribute
# [12:43] <smaug____> need to ask bz
# [12:45] * smaug____ was just reading https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=27128
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# [13:39] <Domenic> caitp: hemanth: one major benefit of Reflect.* is many of those functions return false instead of throwing.
# [13:44] <hemanth> Domenic, no more try catches ;) instead of Function.prototype.apply.call(f, obj, args); we could say Reflect.apply(f, obj, args)
# [13:45] <Domenic> Well, that one will still throw if the function throws
# [13:46] <hemanth> heh heh yeah, at least in case of 'defineProperty'
# [13:46] <Domenic> More like Reflect.deleteProperty vs. delete operator or Reflect.preventExtensions or, indeed, defineProperty
# [13:47] <hemanth> cool
# [13:47] <hemanth> Reflect.has(obj, key); feels more Javaish
# [13:51] <hemanth> Sadly IE Technical Preview is the only browser that has implemented this API..
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# [16:06] <annevk> Domenic: do you know why the lifecycle callbacks are tranfered?
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# [17:11] <hemanth> mewo...
# [17:11] <caitp> =)
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# [17:16] <hemanth> caitp, what's new?
# [17:16] <caitp> well v8 folks are back from vacation so maybe more exciting syntax sugar features can get reviewed and worked on more
# [17:17] <hemanth> ^_^
# [17:17] * hemanth makes an attempt on FP joke -> https://twitter.com/GNUmanth/status/552688274632761344
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# [17:26] <wanderview> annevk: remind me where fetch spec issues go?
# [17:27] <wanderview> not on github, right?
# [17:28] <hemanth> caitp, how about influencing v8 folks to implement http:crbugs.com/346690 or may be even http://crbugs.com/316153 ? :)
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# [17:29] <hemanth> wanderview, https://github.com/whatwg/fetch/issues right?
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# [17:31] <caitp> my influence is pretty limited
# [17:32] <wanderview> hemanth: actually, I think he prefers here: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?product=WHATWG
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# [17:32] <caitp> I think 316153 is more an issue for the devtools team
# [17:32] <caitp> less v8-specific
# [17:32] <hemanth> yup
# [17:33] <hemanth> wanderview, must be
# [17:36] <wanderview> annevk: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=27781
# [17:36] <annevk> ta
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# [17:38] <caitp> hemanth, in that first bug are you saying "template literals don't work correctly" or "template literals aren't implemented, please implement them"?
# [17:39] <caitp> (because we did this through october-november, try in canary),
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# [17:43] <hemanth> caitp, implement temaplate strings, this was reported in Feb, will check on canary
# [17:43] <caitp> yeah, there were a bunch of bugs like that, it's too hard to go through them all and switch their status on code.google.com
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# [17:44] <hemanth> caitp, what about arrow functions? is it on it's way? kangax won't help here
# [17:45] <caitp> mm, andy did most of arrow functions, i'm not sure what's left
# [17:45] <caitp> probably some minor things that make them unshippable for now
# [17:46] <hemanth> oh, heard that class implementation is speeding yup
# [17:46] <caitp> they should work if you use --js-flags="--harmony-arrow-functions" or whatever it's called
# [17:46] <hemanth> not there in experimental flags?
# [17:46] <caitp> i think only staged features get switched on with experimental mode
# [17:47] <caitp> and i'm not sure they're staged yet, could be wrong
# [17:48] <hemanth> hmm
# [17:48] <caitp> https://github.com/v8/v8-git-mirror/blob/master/src/flag-definitions.h#L175-L183 <<< those all need flags manually passed in, the shipping ones don't need a flag at all, and the staged ones are enabled if you turn on that experimental flag
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# [18:01] <hemanth> caitp, nice, thanks.
# [18:02] * hemanth wonders what sloppy mode is...
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# [18:06] <zcorpan> sounds like not "use strict"
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# [18:58] <terinjokes> MikeSmith: for things I'm working on, real time data updates, I'd prefer SSE to WebSockets. Seems to be created for this use case.
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# [20:13] <Hixie> smaug____: there should never be an attribute of type Window
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# [20:20] <smaug____> ah, yeah
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# [20:43] <Ms2ger> Hixie, is that written down somewhere? :)
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# [23:00] <Domenic> annevk: 7 months later https://github.com/w3c/webrtc-pc/issues/172
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# Session Close: Thu Jan 08 00:00:00 2015

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