/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2015-01-09 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Jan 09 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  115. # [07:16] <annevk> Domenic: heh
  116. # [07:16] <annevk> GPH-Hickory: did you review the CSS @charset tests? I recall some of them were bogus, not sure if those got fixed
  117. # [07:17] * GPH-Hickory is now known as GPHemsley
  118. # [07:17] <GPHemsley> annevk: They seemed like they may be from what I recall about encodings, but I didn't check against the Encoding spec.
  119. # [07:17] <GPHemsley> Especially the Shift_JIS one
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  183. # [10:07] <hemanth> MeOw
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  193. # [11:07] <hsivonen> Oh great. Eric J. Bowman asked an attorney who "doesn't grok" the subject matter of the question
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  197. # [11:10] <SteveF_> FYI new HTML data set on http://webdevdata.org/
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  201. # [11:32] <annevk> hsivonen: that guy
  202. # [11:35] <hemanth> annevk: meow
  203. # [11:40] <annevk> hemanth: ?
  204. # [11:41] <hemanth> annevk: that's a way to greeting :)
  205. # [11:41] <hemanth> *of
  206. # [11:41] <annevk> I see, well good morning to you then :-)
  207. # [11:41] <hemanth> annevk: ^_^ I'm still digging for internal states :/
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  211. # [11:51] <JakeA> Gutted I missed the conversion about offence a couple of days back. Can we have it again so I can take part?
  212. # [11:52] <jgraham> JakeA: That depends. Were you offended that you missed out?
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  214. # [11:57] <JakeA> jgraham: I have a moderate discomfort about it that I believe others should cater for
  215. # [12:06] <jgraham> Ah, what is civilisation if not the avoidance of moderate discomfort in others. We must reopen the debate post-haste.
  216. # [12:06] <JakeA> :D
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  222. # [12:53] <JakeA> annevk: I'm struggling with https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/issues/588#issuecomment-67662246 - do we have other APIs that are 'snapshots' but also have methods to change state?
  223. # [12:54] <annevk> JakeA: it seems fine to have a method on a snapshot, but it shouldn't affect the snapshot itself
  224. # [12:54] <annevk> JakeA: so returning a new client as mounir suggested makes sense
  225. # [12:55] <JakeA> annevk: from a usability point of view, I do think people will look for methods on the snapshot
  226. # [12:55] <annevk> JakeA: yeah I don't see why we wouldn't have methods that essentially forward
  227. # [12:58] <JakeA> Thanks!
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  247. # [13:58] <GPHemsley> hsivonen: It doesn't appear that any action was ever taken on this: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-css-testsuite/2012Dec/0000.html
  248. # [13:58] <GPHemsley> Might want to follow up
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  251. # [14:03] <Ms2ger> GPHemsley, you almost sound surprised
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  293. # [16:44] <Domenic> hsivonen: I was really tempted to write a reply whose only content was: "> To elaborate, my attorney doesn't grok this stuff \n\n I thought that was the case."
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  317. # [17:24] <MikeSmith> Domenic: heh
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  319. # [17:25] <MikeSmith> that guy keeps outdoing himself
  320. # [17:26] <MikeSmith> Taking the absurdity to its full potential
  321. # [17:27] <rubys> Dominic: I did manage to get IE11 preview installed; saw no change to how it handles URLs. See http://intertwingly.net/blog/2015/01/08/Ununzippable-Modern-IE#c1420802707 for the gory details
  322. # [17:27] <jgraham> Isn't that the W3C motto?
  323. # [17:27] * rubys notes that jgraham equates web with absurity
  324. # [17:27] <rubys> absurdity*
  325. # [17:28] <MikeSmith> I think Jeff confused that with the W3C motto about backasswardsness
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  328. # [17:29] <MikeSmith> s/Jeff/jgraham
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  330. # [17:30] * MikeSmith tries to come up with some other typos to dig his hole further
  331. # [17:30] * rubys notes that MikeSmith confused jgraham with jeff jaffe
  332. # [17:30] <MikeSmith> nope
  333. # [17:30] <rubys> :-P
  334. # [17:30] <MikeSmith> Jeff Bridges
  335. # [17:31] <MikeSmith> either the Dude or as in True Grit
  336. # [17:38] * hemanth says hello to jspm by fetching random XKCD comics https://github.com/hemanth/hello-jspm Influenced by @glenmaddern
  337. # [17:39] <hemanth> Domenic, meow, I'm still digging those internal states...:|
  338. # [17:43] <caitp> you're like the WHATWG's pet cat it's awesome
  339. # [17:46] <jgraham> It's pretty weird. "meow" is used to accuse people of being nasty ("catty") so it doesn't sit well as a greeting
  340. # [17:46] <Ms2ger> Is it?
  341. # [17:46] <Ms2ger> TIM
  342. # [17:46] <Ms2ger> Today I Meowed?
  343. # [17:46] <Ms2ger> TIL*
  344. # [17:46] <jgraham> Usually in speech rather than print I guess, but yes
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  346. # [17:49] <Domenic> rubys: hmm, what's your IE version? I could swear I got different results, on the page that displayed the components
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  348. # [17:50] <rubys> Dominic: look at the top of https://github.com/webspecs/url/commit/68210260199db858c9eb349d643916b0d5d564f9
  349. # [17:53] <rubys> Dominic: if you want to see what your version produces for all of the tests, go to http://intertwingly.net/projects/pegurl/urltest
  350. # [17:53] <rubys> if you want me to update my results based on a different version, simply provide me with the hex ticket number that page produces
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  353. # [17:57] <Domenic> rubys: what is the version shown in "About Internet Explorer" though; it's not part of the UA string. Mine is 11.0.9879.0
  354. # [17:57] <Domenic> rubys: ticket http://intertwingly.net/projects/pegurl/urltest
  355. # [17:57] <Domenic> er
  356. # [17:58] <Domenic> wow, copying and pasting out of this vm is not working
  357. # [17:58] <rubys> b795e48410c0d1ba0c4764e9c30f4e1e
  358. # [17:58] <Domenic> yes, that one :P
  359. # [17:59] <rubys> just a sec, I'll give you my ie version
  360. # [17:59] <rubys> 11.0.9841.0
  361. # [17:59] <rubys> I'm downloading a new VM. They claim to have fixed the unzip problem.
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  363. # [18:05] <hemanth> ^_^
  364. # [18:08] <hemanth> is there a way to intervene promise, say we have fetch(url).then(); I need to show a spinner till the promise resolves...fetch(url).tillThen().then().catch()...so on...
  365. # [18:09] <Ms2ger> showSpinner(); fetch(url).then(hideSpinner)
  366. # [18:10] * Quits: bnicholson (~bnicholso@24.130.60.241) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  367. # [18:11] * caitp- is now known as caitp
  368. # [18:11] <hemanth> Ms2ger, yeah, currently doing a similar thinge, tillThen() sound dumb ?
  369. # [18:11] * Joins: Jirka_ (~Jirka@95.85.233.233)
  370. # [18:11] <Ms2ger> I don't see the point
  371. # [18:11] <hemanth> I really liked the way protractor's expect is modified to expect a promise, but still the user need not really resolve it with then...
  372. # [18:14] <rubys> Dominic: are you *SURE* that was with IE? The User agent looks awfully suspicious.
  373. # [18:14] <rubys> See: https://github.com/webspecs/url/commit/ed1a053212aae906a4edcce94d7c1681b9b001bd
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  376. # [18:25] * hemanth paws at caitp
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  383. # [18:32] <hemanth> pawing is saying hey, in cat; meow is saying that i'm here, clawing is when you are angry...( gosh...why i'm talking/typing so much... alias hemanth='hemanth -s')
  384. # [18:37] <caitp> it's all good man
  385. # [18:38] * astearns on the internet, no one knows you're a dog who identifies as a cat
  386. # [18:40] <hemanth> astearns, I'm hemanth's dog, I have drunk the magic portion and turned into a cat, will be a dog soon, by the time the cat would be back from it's walk
  387. # [18:42] <Domenic> rubys: yes, they have purposefully obfuscated their user agent to avoid detection.
  388. # [18:43] <annevk> www-tag continues to amaze in uniting all the trolls
  389. # [18:43] <Domenic> rubys: "Edge/12.0" is the only remaining IE detection
  390. # [18:44] <rubys> Dominic: cool. OK, I've updated https://url.spec.whatwg.org/interop/test-results/
  391. # [18:45] <rubys> there is a *lot* less "ie" on that page
  392. # [18:45] <Domenic> :D
  393. # [18:46] <Domenic> I am curious about the rows that have no entries, e.g. (when I select "all current user agents") "http://f:0/c"
  394. # [18:46] <Domenic> all current browsers, rather
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  396. # [18:47] <rubys> I'm confused. You are curious about results for which there are no current browsers that disagree?
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  398. # [18:48] <Domenic> i thought those were filtered out of the table, I guess, but now that I think about it I don't know where I got that impression.
  399. # [18:49] <Domenic> cool, all is well
  400. # [18:49] <rubys> adding more filters is only a matter of code. :-)
  401. # [18:50] <Domenic> i also love the infrastructure you've set up where i can provide results by navigating to a page; it worked really nicely here
  402. # [18:52] <Domenic> https://url.spec.whatwg.org/interop/test-results/c6c0953a53?select=current is a fun one. you can just see all four engineers making different decisions.
  403. # [18:53] <rubys> dominic: a related bug on that one: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26446
  404. # [18:56] <Domenic> wow, the fact that Firefox fails above 2^31 makes things even more fun.
  405. # [18:56] <rubys> now if only we could get the four engineers to participate in a discussion as to what the correct results should be
  406. # [18:56] <caitp> in TCP, the port field is a 16 bit value, so there isn't much reason to support infinitely high ones is there?
  407. # [18:57] <rubys> caitp: another way to phrase the question: "what should impls do for unsupported values"?
  408. # [19:00] <caitp> port = port >= 0x10000 ? 80 : port
  409. # [19:00] <caitp> idk
  410. # [19:01] <rubys> that would indeed be a fifth option. Here's four others: https://url.spec.whatwg.org/interop/test-results/c6c0953a53?select=current
  411. # [19:02] <rubys> At the moment, the spec agrees with Firefox. I personally like Chrome's choice here better.
  412. # [19:04] <caitp> i wasn't really being serious about falling back on 80, 0 seems pretty reasonable
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  415. # [19:06] <rubys> I care that we get people to converge on a single answer, I don't particularly care what that answer is.
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  417. # [19:08] <Domenic> rubys: I think the spec doesn't agree with Firefox for values > 2^31, according to bug 26446 -_-
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  419. # [19:09] <Domenic> I like the uniformity of having everything be strings, but it'd probably be easier to get agreement on some restriction to <= 0x10000. Still need to figure out what the behavior is outside that range though.
  420. # [19:09] <rubys> The bug indeed does suggest that the spec shouldn't disadvantage implementations that store port numbers as integers
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  425. # [19:13] <caitp> < 0x10000, not <= :p
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  523. # [23:12] <Domenic> Is it possible when parsing a HTML page in browsers to get instances of Element that are not instances of HTMLElement?
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  525. # [23:14] <jgraham> Yes: http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/3360
  526. # [23:14] <jgraham> (svg, mathml)
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  529. # [23:14] <Domenic> I meant, own-instances. Just Element, not any subclass.
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  531. # [23:15] <Domenic> Looks like createElementNS can do it
  532. # [23:16] <Domenic> document.createElementNS("http://example.com", "baz:foo").constructor === Element
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  534. # [23:16] <jgraham> Right, but that's not "when parsing a HTML page"
  535. # [23:16] <Domenic> ah yeah I guess I forgot the second part of my question
  536. # [23:17] <jgraham> I don't think the parser can create things that are bare Elements
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  539. # [23:18] <jgraham> Oooh, maybe <math> doesn't have a special subclass
  540. # [23:23] <Hixie> you can trick the parser into inserting elements in neither svg, mathml, or html namespaces
  541. # [23:23] <Hixie> in which case it'll be from Element
  542. # [23:23] <Hixie> also, i don't think any of hte browsers implement MathML's DOM, so they're all just Element too
  543. # [23:26] <jgraham> with <svg><foo> or something more subtle?
  544. # [23:27] <jgraham> Not that at least
  545. # [23:27] <Hixie> maybe innerHTML on a non-HTML non-SVG non-MathML element?
  546. # [23:27] <Hixie> i forget teh details
  547. # [23:27] <jgraham> Oh innerHTML, I hadn't thought of that
  548. # [23:27] <jgraham> I guess that still counts as the parser
  549. # [23:35] <gsnedders> jgraham: that just creates an svg:foo element
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  556. # Session Close: Sat Jan 10 00:00:00 2015

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