/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2015-01-31 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Jan 31 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  25. # [01:08] <TabAtkins> smaug____: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-forms/ Feel free to comment on www-style. ^_^
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  27. # [01:16] <Domenic> TabAtkins: jeeez, that + @extends make this quite a day for you. Although presumably the work of the last few weeks.
  28. # [01:17] <Domenic> "Any elements with class=my-button receive the same styling as actual button elements, as if they had a tagname of button in addition to their normal tagname." woah!
  29. # [01:17] <TabAtkins> Domenic: Things often clump in time.
  30. # [01:17] <Domenic> that clause is super useful for custom elements
  31. # [01:17] <Domenic> custom-button { @extends button; }
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  34. # [01:18] <TabAtkins> Yup yup.
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  38. # [01:28] <smaug____> TabAtkins: @fosdem. I'll try to look at that tomorrow
  39. # [01:28] <smaug____> hmm, "The source file for the page css-forms/Overview.html has recently been updated and automatic generation is pending."
  40. # [01:28] <TabAtkins> Give it a minute or two.
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  42. # [01:30] <smaug____> background is btw interesting case, if it includes bg image
  43. # [01:31] <smaug____> IIRC gecko is the only one which support bg image for select popup
  44. # [01:31] <smaug____> and it had to limit how the popup is shown to prevent popup to cover the whole screen
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  167. # [10:13] <annevk> TabAtkins: Domenic: pointer to @extends?
  168. # [10:24] <annevk> "I don't like your API. It creates too much objects. Let me wrap it in a polyfill." Yes, that will make things more efficient
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  170. # [10:34] <SimonSapin> annevk: https://tabatkins.github.io/specs/css-extend-rule/
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  172. # [10:40] <annevk> SimonSapin: ta!
  173. # [10:41] <annevk> SimonSapin: do you know why the rationale in the introduction is not applicable to using .serious.error instead?
  174. # [10:47] * annevk files https://github.com/tabatkins/specs/issues/38
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  179. # [10:57] <SimonSapin> I don't know
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  196. # [11:36] * Ms2ger wonders if the spec defines that the selected files are emptied when changing input@type
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  207. # [13:16] <annevk> I don't really follow how @extend would influence querySelector()
  208. # [13:18] <annevk> Also, what's the object model story?
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  235. # [15:32] <Ms2ger> In this talk: Acid tests
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  238. # [15:36] <Ms2ger> Also, namespaces. Namespaces everywhere.
  239. # [15:37] <Ms2ger> And XPath
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  241. # [15:40] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Are you sure you didn't slip into a nightmare?
  242. # [15:40] <Ms2ger> No
  243. # [15:41] <Ms2ger> Aren't you around here?
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  245. # [15:43] <jgraham> No
  246. # [15:43] <jgraham> I sort of forgot about i
  247. # [15:43] <jgraham> t
  248. # [15:43] <Ms2ger> I see
  249. # [15:49] <gsnedders> Anyone got any idea why, given six web fonts with similar definitions, only two would load in IE8?
  250. # [15:49] <Ms2ger> "IE"
  251. # [15:49] <gsnedders> Like, just aren't loaded. At all.
  252. # [15:51] <jgraham> That's almost as obscure as my question, which is basically "why is Chrome not passing my wptrunner tests when it's basially using the same code as Gecko, which does pass"
  253. # [15:52] <gsnedders> Bah, you guys are smart!
  254. # [15:53] <gsnedders> And now I reload and they all load.
  255. # [15:53] <gsnedders> WHAT THE ACTUAL HELL.
  256. # [15:53] * gsnedders flips IE
  257. # [15:53] <gsnedders> (I bet this is some CORE-44944-like bug)
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  261. # [15:56] <jgraham> Oh joy. time.sleep(1) => tests pass
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  263. # [15:57] <gsnedders> :)
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  272. # [16:08] <jgraham> Hah
  273. # [16:08] <jgraham> It fails if the window doesn't have focus
  274. # [16:10] <jgraham> https://code.google.com/p/chromedriver/issues/detail?id=388
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  292. # [17:02] <TabAtkins> annevk: There's an issue in the spec about whether @extend should affect querySelector or not. I'm undecided so far.
  293. # [17:02] <TabAtkins> annevk: What's your concern about the object model?
  294. # [17:06] <annevk> TabAtkins: I don't see how it could affect querySelector()
  295. # [17:06] <annevk> TabAtkins: just wondering what it looks like
  296. # [17:06] <annevk> TabAtkins: if it flattens or something else
  297. # [17:06] <annevk> TabAtkins: (I saw the open issue, just didn't see how it would possibly have an impact)
  298. # [17:06] <TabAtkins> By... affecting what matches the selector?
  299. # [17:07] <TabAtkins> Such that a querySelector('.error') also returns .serious-error elements?
  300. # [17:07] <TabAtkins> For OM, the rules just gain a .cssRules attribute, which @extend goes into.
  301. # [17:08] <annevk> Why would .error match .serious-error if .serious-error copies styles from .error?
  302. # [17:09] <annevk> Seems weird
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  304. # [17:13] <TabAtkins> annevk: Because you're reading the spec wrong, I guess? .serious-error elements gain the qualities necessary to match .error selectors, for the purpose of matching selectors.
  305. # [17:14] <TabAtkins> So when you write a selector like ".error { color: red; }", .serious-error elements are targeted as well.
  306. # [17:14] <TabAtkins> So it makes at least some sense that querySelector(".error") would return .serious-error as well. Dunno if it's good in practice.
  307. # [17:17] <annevk> The way that rule reads to me is like a mixin
  308. # [17:18] <annevk> Which sort of follows from it being part of the block rather than being part of the selector
  309. # [17:21] <TabAtkins> annevk: @extend is similar to @mixin, yes. But they're not the same.
  310. # [17:22] <TabAtkins> If you ignore some fiddly details, they're functionally the same, applied in an inverse manner.
  311. # [17:22] <TabAtkins> But those fiddly details are important. ^_^
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  313. # [17:22] <TabAtkins> And usability-wise they're very different once you get away from the trivial examples.
  314. # [17:23] <TabAtkins> For example, you can create a whole suite of rules for styling .error in various situations. With @extend, your .serious-error elements can opt into the entire thing with a single rule. With @mixin, not so much.
  315. # [17:23] <TabAtkins> (Technically possible to do so, by using nesting rules inside the @mixin block, but not a good practice or very common.)
  316. # [17:23] <annevk> Yeah I guess, and @extend is across all stylesheet boundaries (includes UA stylesheets)
  317. # [17:23] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
  318. # [17:24] <annevk> I don't think we would want layout to affect the results of querySelector() though
  319. # [17:25] <TabAtkins> There's no layout involved?
  320. # [17:25] <TabAtkins> Unless you're using "layout" in a very broad and incorrect way.
  321. # [17:25] <TabAtkins> @extend affects the cascade only.
  322. # [17:26] <annevk> I love using layout in an incorrect way
  323. # [17:27] <TabAtkins> ^_^
  324. # [17:27] <annevk> But yeah, having querySelector() depend on stylesheets in general
  325. # [17:27] <TabAtkins> Yeah, I was unsure if that was a good idea. Or if it was a useful idea in general - I could see it being pretty confusing.
  326. # [17:27] <TabAtkins> Even if the technical details were fine.
  327. # [17:28] <annevk> I'm sure we could explain it, somehow (though would require synchronous cascade in some cases), but I'm not sure it'd be pretty
  328. # [17:28] <annevk> Though if we want to do style isolation a la shadow trees as style primitive, maybe we need it?
  329. # [17:29] <TabAtkins> Still unsure that makes sense as a style primitive, rather than as a DOM API.
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  332. # [17:31] <TabAtkins> Basically I'm vaguely uncomfortable with any attempt to do isolation/encapsulation stuff with a big global API like style. I think we need something more direct and local.
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  334. # [17:37] <annevk> TabAtkins: any documentation for -webkit-tap-highlight-color anywhere btw?
  335. # [17:37] <TabAtkins> Doubt it!
  336. # [17:37] <TabAtkins> Just things like http://css-infos.net/property/-webkit-tap-highlight-color
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  338. # [17:47] <annevk> Google does not even return that for me
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  344. # [17:58] <TabAtkins> I literally just googled for webkit-tap-highlight-color
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  359. # [19:14] <annevk> Oh doh, the leading hyphen is a problem
  360. # [19:15] <annevk> You'd think Google knows about CSS properties :p
  361. # [19:16] <caitp> if they started adding heuristics to figure out if you meant "negate this word" or not, it would probably get even harder to use
  362. # [19:17] <annevk> All they need to do is recognize it as a word
  363. # [19:17] <TabAtkins> But -word already has a meaning - "exclude matches with word".
  364. # [19:17] <caitp> but sometimes it's a word and sometimes it's an operator
  365. # [19:18] <caitp> so you need inconsistent rules to figure out which is which
  366. # [19:18] <annevk> I meant that you'd use --webkit-tap-highlight-color to exclude it
  367. # [19:18] <caitp> if the word is quoted i think that should ideally work as expected
  368. # [19:18] <TabAtkins> how woudl it know that -webkit-tap-highlight-color didn't mean "exclude results with webkit-tap-highlight-color"?
  369. # [19:19] <caitp> (but it doesn't)
  370. # [19:19] <annevk> TabAtkins: because it knows the latter is not a word
  371. # [19:19] <TabAtkins> How does it know that?
  372. # [19:19] <annevk> TabAtkins: usage patterns, presumably
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  377. # [19:22] <TabAtkins> And when *I* need to search for something and exclude "webkit-foo", how am I to know I need to double-negate it?
  378. # [19:23] <caitp> "-webkit-foo" << don't negate, -"-webkit-foo" << negate -webkit-foo
  379. # [19:23] <caitp> probably the most predictable way
  380. # [19:24] <TabAtkins> caitp: Yeah, that uses well-known and consistent grammar.
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  387. # [19:47] <annevk> TabAtkins: if you want literals, use quotes
  388. # [19:48] <TabAtkins> I know that.
  389. # [19:48] <TabAtkins> You're the one saying otherwise. ^_^
  390. # [19:48] <annevk> TabAtkins: no, I'm saying it should be better about words
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  407. # [20:54] <jgraham> I thought that quotes on Google didn't actually work anymore
  408. # [20:55] <jgraham> Although I might be wrong. Doesn't seem impossible to have an algorithm where if -x results in nothing, you try the query again as if quoted
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  446. # Session Close: Sun Feb 01 00:00:00 2015

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